Ukraine's Kursk operation 'has lifted the morale of fighting troops & the people behind frontlines'
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00:00Ukraine's incursion into the Russian region of Kursk continues.
00:05It's still unclear what the stated goals of the operation are.
00:08However, what is clear is it's got officials in Moscow scrambling.
00:13According to Kyiv, its army has continued to advance.
00:16The mass evacuations of civilians, meanwhile, is taking place in Ukraine's border region
00:21of Sumy.
00:22With the increased fighting since the Ukrainian offensive in Kursk, Moscow has intensified
00:26its bombings on this rural area.
00:29524's Emmanuelle Schaes reports.
00:33We are on our way to Morkutsia, a village in Sumy region, located just 5 kilometers
00:38away from the Russian border.
00:41The local Red Cross has to evacuate an elderly person, a high-risk mission, as humanitarian
00:47workers are also targeted by Russian bombs.
00:51The village seems empty.
00:57Here is Valentina, 79 years old.
01:00Gennady tells her she needs to go.
01:02Did someone tell you you're going to be evacuated to Sumy?
01:08There's no one for me there.
01:10Please sit down.
01:16They lied to me?
01:18We don't know.
01:19Your family asked us to come and get you and take you to Sumy.
01:25They said that there should be the passport here.
01:28The passport.
01:31Valentina is confused and no longer sure she wants to leave.
01:36With the constant risk of bombing, the humanitarian workers have to be quick.
01:42After a long hesitation, she agrees to follow them.
01:51Valentina can no longer move around without help.
01:54Gennady and Sasha take her to a care home in Sumy, where other elderly people from border
01:59villages are placed.
02:04This village was attacked recently by the Russian Federation with bombs.
02:08Today rockets are being fired.
02:11Last time we came, it was when two children had been killed in a bombing.
02:20This area is not densely populated anymore.
02:24People have been leaving for a while, but I think the bombing is only going to intensify.
02:29That's why we're now trying to evacuate as many people as possible.
02:35At the reception center for displaced people in Sumy, just like Valentina, hundreds of
02:40people have had to leave everything behind.
02:44Many have lost all they had and do not know where they will be able to continue living.
02:53For more we can bring in Peter Zalmayev, director of the Eurasian Democracy Initiative, who
02:59joins us from Kyiv.
03:00Thank you very much for joining us here on France 24 today.
03:03Now it's been 10 days, over 10 days, that Kyiv launched this invasion, this incursion
03:09into Kursk, whatever you call it.
03:11Do we know what's behind Kyiv's thinking?
03:14Well, officially we don't, but at least we have an official confirmation that it is indeed
03:19Ukrainian troops.
03:20And even if you had asked me about a week ago what the plans were, I would have said
03:25probably stick around for maybe a couple of more days, show up Vladimir Putin's regime
03:31for what it is, a colossus on clay feet with porous, undefended borders and a fixation
03:40and an obsession with Ukraine so much that Vladimir Putin does not bother to defend his
03:45own borders.
03:46But right now I see the intention is to try to get entrenched in Russia's territory in
03:51order to use it as a bargaining chip in eventual negotiations with the Russian side.
03:56You leave the Kharkiv region, we leave Kursk.
04:00Also it's lifted our morale, the morale of the fighting troops and people behind frontlines,
04:05which who have been in need of good news for a long while.
04:09This is a very daring, risky, but a daring move that has lifted hearts here in Ukraine.
04:16But once again, the end goal, we don't know yet.
04:19And maybe that is part of the design.
04:21The secrecy in which this operation was conducted was a secrecy, was in secret not only to the
04:28Russians but to most Ukrainians.
04:30I would imagine that only a very tight circle of individuals know of the eventual goal of
04:36this daring operation.
04:38Peter, you said it could potentially be used as a bargaining chip.
04:42So essentially, Kiev would essentially take control of a chunk of Russian territory the
04:49size of what Russia has annexed of Ukraine and potentially Crimea and say, OK, now let's
04:56swap?
04:58This could be, once again, the numbers simply bear this out.
05:02There are reinforcements, the reinforcements that have arrived in the last few days.
05:07I think, you know, we can now talk about at least 10,000 Ukrainian troops present there,
05:13as many as 80 population settlements occupied and maybe an advance as far as 30 kilometers
05:23inside Russia's territory.
05:25So that may actually be the case.
05:27Also, the Ukrainians, we are waiting to see if the Russians start withdrawing their battle-hardened
05:35troops from the, you know, hottest points of the front, including Toretsk and Pokrovsk
05:40in the Donbas, to try to kick the Ukrainians out.
05:44If that happens, that will also have been justified, because, you know, we, the Ukrainians,
05:50are bleeding quite heavily.
05:52Russians are advancing.
05:53Pokrovsk is a key place to hold and, you know, a lot is riding on Ukraine's ability to keep
06:02it.
06:03So far hasn't happened.
06:04We are seeing that Russians are continuing the tempo of their advance, but they are finally
06:10starting to withdraw their troops elsewhere, including in Kharkiv.
06:14So maybe the strategy is slowly but surely working out.
06:19Peter, Russia has already started to say NATO weaponry is being used on its territory by
06:25Ukrainian troops.
06:26We've often heard about red lines by NATO states.
06:30Is this not a red line?
06:32Well, we have official statements from the Pentagon and other ministries of defense.
06:39They're saying that this is not really an offensive operation.
06:43This is largely a defense operation.
06:47Most Ukrainian allies have vocally stood behind Ukraine's decision to do this.
06:53And in fact, we are hoping that in the remaining months of Joe Biden in the White House, and
06:58he's announced that in an interview to the Financial Times, that he will concentrate
07:03on bolstering security relations with both Ukraine and Taiwan, that finally, finally
07:11the White House will be persuaded to lift this ridiculous, you know, limitation on Ukraine's
07:18ability to use its weapons against Russia.
07:21I mean, it already is inside Russia.
07:23If it is enabled to use some of the America-provided weaponry, I think it could, you know, develop
07:31this operation into a strategic success.
07:34We have some reports that some British tanks may potentially are being used in this operation.
07:40But for instance, if Ukraine starts using the F-16s, which it has received, that would
07:46potentially ruffle further feathers in Russia, won't it?
07:51Well, I mean, the feathers have been ruffled.
07:54I don't know which, you know, which other feathers remain that have, that are unruffled.
07:59And I think that's also part of the importance of this operation.
08:02It is showing to our Western allies first that Ukraine is able to stage daring offensive
08:08operations, offensive defensive operations, and that there are no red lines really to
08:13cross.
08:14Do not be afraid of Kremlin's red lines.
08:16We're already in Russia's territory fighting with some of the Western-provided tanks, as
08:21you mentioned.
08:23And what?
08:24According to Russia's nuclear doctrine, they're supposed to respond to it with a nuclear strike.
08:28Instead, we don't hear a nuclear rhetoric at all.
08:33There was a stoppage to all nuclear rhetoric.
08:35Now that Russia is sensing that, you know, it's here, it's there, it has to put its money
08:40where its mouth is, and all of a sudden it's showing lack of resolve on that issue.
08:45So this is very important, and I think it should embolden our Western allies to give
08:49Ukraine all that it needs to kick the Russians out of its territory.
08:56Peter, we have, you mentioned President Biden.
09:00His term is coming to an end shortly.
09:04We're not sure who's going to come out on top in November, of course.
09:07Could this be why Ukraine launched this incursion now, and not just because the weather is about
09:14to change?
09:15Well, I mean, I think the main, once again, the main goal has been to reassure its Western
09:22allies that Ukraine is capable not only of constantly crying, we need more weapons, please
09:28help us.
09:29No one likes this sort of attitude and people get tired.
09:32It's a part of human psychology.
09:35People like a success story, and reading Western press and analyses, while most analysts will
09:41tell you that this is a risky operation, still a lot of folks have been heartened, and I
09:46think this should encourage the West to step up its support of Ukraine.
09:51Peter Zelmayev, thank you very much for joining us on the program today.