Our big interview features Joaquim Cruz; the 1984 Olympic champion in the 800m in which he beat Seb Coe to the gold medal.
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00:00Okay, so Joaquin Cruz, or Joaquin Cruz, if I get your name right.
00:07I don't even know how to say it.
00:13It's a difficult name for the Brits to pronounce.
00:16Yes it is, Joaquin, Joaquin, yeah.
00:19What I do know is it's been 40 years since you won the Olympic 800m title in Los Angeles.
00:27Does it really feel that long?
00:31No, it feels long when people talk about it.
00:36People talk about it and remind me.
00:39I left the sport as an athlete and then I started coaching right away.
00:45And when I started coaching, the goal remained the same.
00:50I'm going to leave the sport through my athletes.
00:57And so as I started working, I got so engaged, so occupied with your work.
01:09And as time goes by, it has been 19 years that I have been working for the West Paralympics.
01:15And I, wow, 19? It just went like that.
01:21And these years, there has been more attention in the 40 years because people have been,
01:29how do you feel about this? It has been 40 years since you won the medal.
01:36And I really, oh, I wasn't thinking about it.
01:40Have Brazilian media been in touch with you as well to do interviews?
01:45Especially the Brazilian media.
01:48They contacted me at the end of last year because they wanted to do a special at the Coliseum,
01:56LA Coliseum, because it was going to be 40 years, right?
02:00I said, oh, has it been that long already?
02:03And they asked me, how many times have you been here since 1984?
02:08I said, the second time.
02:13I never kept track of it.
02:17So, yeah, 40 years.
02:20You must have very fond memories of the LA games from 1984.
02:25What's your biggest memory or your most kind of vivid or fondest memory from that occasion?
02:34Well, LA was...
02:36Athletes often remember strange things.
02:38It might not be crossing the winning, the finish line in the 800 metres.
02:43It might be something different.
02:47That's what I was going to say.
02:49LA was the peak of everything, the summary that was done prior to being there.
03:03When I started, when I came to this country, 1983-84, this season, 1983-84,
03:13I was experiencing a very special phase of my life.
03:21I would say a balanced phase.
03:251984, I was in a human equilibrium, balance, emotionally and spiritually.
03:38Emotionally, I like to bring it emotionally first because that's when I met my future wife.
03:47In January, I met her in January and we started dating.
03:53And I was hit by a love lightning.
04:00And that spilled through everything that I did.
04:09And it was the first time that I fell in love with my training, with the school, everything.
04:16I was experiencing love in everything that I was doing.
04:26Training became much easier.
04:30And that helped with my spiritual life as well.
04:38And I was feeling things that I don't think a human being would feel,
04:46unless that human being is in love.
04:50I think it was you who said that love is blind, right?
05:00Love is blind and lovers don't know, can't see the crazy things they commit.
05:10I was living like that.
05:13And I was using that passion, that feeling in everything that I did,
05:20in my preparation, my school, my social life.
05:25So I experienced a supreme feeling throughout the whole preparation for the Games.
05:38Equilibrium, as you say.
05:41Yes, when I went to the Games, I was on the love adrenaline.
05:52It's a chemical that when you're in love, when you're passionate about the things that you do,
06:01you can accomplish crazy things.
06:05And one thing that I felt, not so much in L.A., but in Eugene,
06:13we had the Nationals in Oregon, the NEC 2A.
06:20And I had four days of competition, which we use for good training, preparation for the Olympics.
06:29Four days in a row.
06:30I opened up with the 800, semi-final.
06:34The next day, semi-final for the 15.
06:37And then final 800 the next day.
06:40And final 15 the next day.
06:43And so I won my 800 and then the final for the 15.
06:53And Eugene was customary to have all the athletes sitting down on a bench in the middle of the track
07:02before to be introduced.
07:05And of course, being my hometown there, I was the last one to be introduced.
07:12And I was sitting down for a little while.
07:14And when they introduced, when they said my name and I got up and I started walking, I couldn't feel my legs.
07:23I couldn't feel my legs.
07:24I had to really control my legs.
07:27I felt like I was levitating.
07:31And my nature, my competitiveness nature, and I said, wow, okay, I'm going to use this to my advantage.
07:41And I ran 1500 meters like if I was levitating the whole time.
07:49And it's like I didn't feel tired.
07:53I didn't feel pain.
07:55I was just moving my legs and allowing the crowd to take me home.
08:03And I came out of that track.
08:06I said, huh, this is awesome.
08:11So I found out something about myself on a spiritual level.
08:21Of course, I'm going to be using that same emotion in L.A., which I did.
08:29So those are the things I think it reminds me of L.A.
08:35And when I went in the stadium to run the final, my spirit was not there anymore.
08:45My spirit was miles, you know, kilometers from California, you know, all the way to Sioux, Oregon, where my future wife was watching me.
08:58So your future wife wasn't in the Coliseum.
09:00She was watching on television.
09:03She was in Oregon.
09:06So my spirit was there with her.
09:09And I was watching myself through her eyes, you know, seeing me delivering what I delivered.
09:17Yeah. And what's her name, sorry?
09:19Mary.
09:20Mary. Okay.
09:22Now, some people would say that getting involved with a girl before an Olympic Games is maybe not a great idea.
09:31You know, you would not be focused on your training and all that stuff.
09:35But it obviously wasn't the case for you.
09:38It worked out really well.
09:39As you say, you just had this equilibrium and that just made you a happy, happy person.
09:44And you began running phenomenally well.
09:48Jason, I felt like a warrior, like there's another word, like a warrior.
09:57I was on my journey.
10:00And in L.A., it was the biggest battle of my life, the biggest dragon to slay, to kill.
10:09And I was doing for me, for my coach, for my country and for my loved one.
10:19And that's what was needed, you know, that I was missing in my career.
10:24You know, I had gone to Helsinki, to Europe the year before, in 1983.
10:30And I competed, I was running hard every race, but, you know, with a lot of effort and less emotion.
10:40But then when I met her, you know, I mixed that emotional aspect, you know, with the toughness.
10:46It was different, totally different.
10:49And it was that, the story of Beowulf, you know, the warrior goes to kill the dragon
11:00and he knows he's coming back to his loved one.
11:03You know, I was feeling like that.
11:05Yeah. Do you think the Helsinki experience as well helped you go on to win the gold in L.A.?
11:13Because Helsinki was a brutal race.
11:16Yourself and Peter Elliott were just really battling for the lead.
11:21And then you kind of almost burnt each other out.
11:24And then Willy Wolbeck came through to win the gold there.
11:28Was that a bruising experience at the time?
11:31Was that difficult or how did you handle that?
11:36It was the best experience of my career.
11:39At that point?
11:41Helsinki, what happened in Helsinki had to happen in order for me to win the L.A.
11:49Yeah.
11:51I made the mistakes that I had to make in Helsinki.
12:00In Helsinki I had one plan only, which was take the lead and run from the front.
12:06And I spent all night working on that, which was another mistake.
12:13I went to sleep, but I couldn't sleep because I was playing the tactic,
12:19the race in my mind, pretty much the whole night.
12:24And I spoke with my coach and he said, well, that's a good approach.
12:31Go execute.
12:34And I tried to execute, but Peter Elliott messed me up.
12:40The 300 meters, he took the lead.
12:45At the time I said, what this guy is doing?
12:50But he probably thought that he had to do that too.
12:54And he went to execute, right?
12:56So he took the lead.
12:58So I run 320 meters.
13:03And from that point, a whole lap I was fighting him for the lead,
13:10because that was not part of my plan.
13:14So I gained the lead, about 100 to go, 90 meters to go, but I lost the race.
13:23And that was the lesson to learn.
13:26My coach walked to the stand after the race.
13:31And Dionisio, do you remember Dionisio, the Italian?
13:36He was with my coach and he called me dumb, you know, you burro.
13:41That was not smart.
13:42And I look at my coach.
13:44My coach didn't say any word, didn't say anything.
13:48We never discussed.
13:49We never said we shouldn't have done that.
13:51We shouldn't have made adjustments.
13:53He died and we never talked about it.
13:57Mainly because my coach knew me well.
14:00He trusted I was going to learn from that experience, which I did.
14:04You did.
14:06Yeah.
14:08So then going into the Olympic year, I guess you were still pretty young.
14:14You had an extra year of training and experience.
14:17You learned from Helsinki and you fell in love as well.
14:20It just all came together.
14:22The form you were in, in L.A., you seemed invincible.
14:27Did you feel invincible at the time?
14:29Yes.
14:30Yes?
14:31Yes.
14:32And I felt invincible.
14:34After Helsinki, I came back to the U.S.
14:39And I rested for about four weeks.
14:42We used to rest.
14:44I used to take a four-week break doing nothing.
14:48Well, before I used to play basketball, but L.A. was too big for me to take risks.
14:54So I decided to just walk around.
14:56And I reflect on my season.
14:591983 was a good year, a good experience in Europe.
15:07And in 82, I had surgery.
15:11And in 82, I didn't start my training in 83 until January.
15:20So I skipped about three months of basic training because of my surgery.
15:27And then I had an Achilles injury.
15:33And so when I was resting and reflecting, I said,
15:38You know what?
15:39If I do a good base, a complete base, no one is going to touch me.
15:45So in September, October, I decided I made a choice.
15:51Of course, I asked myself the right questions.
15:55Am I ready to handle a medal?
16:01What am I going to do with it?
16:06Am I ready?
16:07And the answer was yes.
16:09I said, I'm going to do this and I'm going to go all the way.
16:15And then I start training.
16:17I made the decision.
16:19I'm going to train so I can get to the podium, period.
16:24So I start training and then I met my wife.
16:28And everything came together after that.
16:32Yeah.
16:34Now, your best time for 800 metres, it's almost identical to Seb's, Sebco.
16:44I saw him a few days ago before this interview.
16:47He passed on his best regards to you.
16:50I think you still bump into him occasionally.
16:53Oh yeah, pretty much every year.
16:58He always seemed very gracious when you beat him in L.A. as well.
17:02I think he realised that he was beaten by the stronger runner that day
17:07and he was always very sportsmanlike, I felt.
17:12But the British runners generally, they were always,
17:15is it fair to say they were your biggest rivals during that period?
17:18Sebco, Steve Cram, Elliot.
17:22I only have great things to say about Cole since the beginning.
17:26The first time I met him was in Rome in 1981.
17:29I was 18.
17:32In Rome, I was already having problems with my foot,
17:35so I didn't train at all while I was in Europe.
17:41But I was able to watch him racing.
17:47Right before the Rome competition, I think it was a couple of days before,
17:53maybe a day before I went to the track and I saw him training.
18:00I was fascinated how he was able to move and his frequency.
18:08He moved from point A to point B so quick.
18:11I said, wow, that's awesome.
18:15My race in Rome was terrible.
18:18I was not, I choked, period.
18:23I choked and I remember I was putting my sweats back on
18:29and he was kind enough to stop by and shake my hand and say a few words.
18:39I don't think he realized that I didn't speak any English at the time.
18:44So I went back to the hotel that night and I lay down on my bed
18:52and I stared at the ceiling until I fell asleep.
18:56I promised myself I would never feel that way again.
19:00The race was horrible, I couldn't feel my body.
19:04In 1984, we were in the middle of the track waiting for the medal ceremony.
19:20We were quiet and then he broke the silence and made a comment and said,
19:26well, this is a great day and we have the best spot in the stadium.
19:33I said, yes.
19:34I took advantage that he broke the silence and said,
19:37hey, what did you tell me that day in Rome when you shook my hand?
19:44He said, I told you that you were going to be a great champion.
19:51I didn't have any words after that.
19:54I said, wow.
19:57He mentioned the Rome race to me, the World Cup in Rome,
20:00and he said that that was the first time when he was really aware of you
20:04and he realized that even though you were beaten that day,
20:07you were an athlete who was on the rise
20:09and that you were going to be a real force to be reckoned with
20:12a few years later, which was obviously true.
20:16So he remembered that World Cup race as well.
20:19And you must have finished a fair distance behind him that day,
20:25but he knew about you in that race.
20:29Yeah, I was not even in the screen.
20:36There was a little group, it was a tactical race.
20:40He was in the middle, in the front, controlling the pace.
20:45And that's what the commentator said, you know,
20:50Cruz is not even on the screen.
20:53But I had a great respect for him.
20:56You know, there were two athletes that I modeled from,
21:00and one was Alberto Rantorena of Cuba,
21:04because I was more like Alberto Rantorena and Sebastian Coe.
21:11One thing that when I started training in 1983,
21:14and I always remember, you know, to beat Sebastian Coe,
21:17you have to have the speed.
21:19You have to be able to move from point A to point B really quick.
21:24If you watch the race, the final, even though I was in the front,
21:28but I would take a few steps and I look to the side, you know,
21:32a few steps because I was guarding him pretty much the entire race,
21:38you know, because I knew he had made a mistake in 1980.
21:47And I was preparing for whatever he was going to do in 1984.
21:55And he was not going to make that mistake again.
21:58So the whole time I was not even worried about the pace
22:02because I felt, you know, I felt immortal.
22:05I felt unbeatable.
22:07I had supreme fitness that I didn't have to worry about that.
22:13If the pace was fast, I could handle it.
22:15If it was slow, I would have the speed.
22:18And it was right, you know, and I was able to, you know,
22:22manage the race and manage Coe at the same time.
22:27Yeah.
22:29Do you think you could have run even quicker that season then
22:32if you were in such good form?
22:34Or is it impossible to tell?
22:37I think so because I had 100 meters to go,
22:43300 to go, 300 meters where I would start picking up the pace.
22:48Why 300?
22:49Because I have long strides.
22:51Okay.
22:52And I felt that everyone, most of the runners,
22:55they start moving to 50, 200 and 150 to go.
23:00Okay.
23:01So I said, I'm going to train myself at 300.
23:05And I practiced that in training,
23:09everything that I did in the last 300, 400, 500,
23:13I would stop picking up the pace and visualize myself in the last 300.
23:17Yeah.
23:18And for 300 to go at the final, I had to tell myself, don't go yet.
23:26Don't go yet.
23:27Don't go yet.
23:28So I was holding myself until about a hundred meters.
23:33A hundred meters to go.
23:35When I decided to go, I felt the goosebumps.
23:39Really?
23:40I felt the goosebumps, the track, the lanes.
23:47I couldn't see the lanes.
23:48I was just seeing my lane.
23:50They melted and people were, you know,
23:54I was in this supreme being.
23:59I could have gone two more hundred meters, you know, from that.
24:03Okay.
24:05There was always a story that you had legs that were different lengths
24:11and you had to wear shoe inserts.
24:13Is that true?
24:15It's not a story.
24:16That's a reality.
24:17That's a real story.
24:19So one of your legs is an inch?
24:22Two centimeters shorter.
24:26Okay.
24:27Yeah.
24:28So you have orthotics, shoe orthotics.
24:32I had Nike built my shoes with a one centimeter build up on the bottom.
24:39Okay.
24:40And my shoes, my spikes.
24:43And yeah, I was good competing in the Paralympics.
24:47Yeah.
24:48And that's the reason why I had my first surgery in 1982,
24:53because I used to play basketball.
24:56And I didn't have good shoes.
24:59And I didn't know.
25:01My coach, Luis Oliveira, he was my basketball coach,
25:06age 12, before 12 years old.
25:10And when I started running track with him at 14,
25:14he kind of noticed because the way I walk.
25:17He said, you might have a leg discrepancy.
25:21And it was not until 1981 that it was identified that my femur,
25:30my right femur was two centimeters shorter.
25:34Okay.
25:36Did that cause further injuries, do you think?
25:38Because you, I mean, all athletes get injured.
25:41You know, every athlete gets injured, really.
25:43But you seem to be particularly affected with injuries during your career.
25:47Do you think it was mainly due to the leg length discrepancy?
25:52Well, I think it was a combination of everything.
25:55The discrepancy plus the intensity.
25:59I was very intensive athlete.
26:01Yeah.
26:02I did not like to move slowly.
26:05Okay.
26:06And Luis was very intensive coach, you know.
26:10And it was intensive because he, first of all,
26:13he was very structured, systematic.
26:15Okay.
26:16And I used the sport to show off, you know.
26:20And I was really shy growing up.
26:24And the sport was a way to express myself, you know,
26:30to, you know, to communicate my characteristics.
26:36And so I did, I was a mad person.
26:39I was always messing up with his training, you know, especially the volume.
26:44Didn't do much volume because I couldn't get to the end of the workout because of the intensity.
26:49Yeah.
26:50I did not like running.
26:54Running was too much to handle.
26:58The stress was too much to handle growing up.
27:01Okay.
27:02I was 15, 15, even 16 years old.
27:05I was good at, Luis identified a potential in me right away.
27:10My first experience with the basketball was a 12-minute run.
27:15I was 11 and almost 12 years old.
27:18And I don't know what I did, but I did not like that experience.
27:25Okay.
27:27My teammates warned me, with Luis, you got to go through the base.
27:33And there is a lot of running.
27:34There is a lot of running gymnastics, stairs, heels, you name it,
27:38before you can even see the color of the ball.
27:41And I said, oh boy, how am I going to do this?
27:44And for two years, that's what I was doing.
27:48Pretty much following a periodization that a track athlete could easily follow and do well.
27:59I was doing that for basketball.
28:01Yeah.
28:02Okay.
28:03And with Luis.
28:04And that's why when I was 14, all the kids knew that I hated it.
28:12The training did quick, so I would finish quick.
28:17But they knew that I hated it.
28:20And one kid in particular, Carlos, knew that I disliked it so much.
28:26And a track coach one day was looking for anyone to represent the school
28:32in the upcoming championships.
28:34And Carlos was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
28:37He indicated my name.
28:39He said, you know, just add Joaquin's name because he runs really well.
28:44And told Luis, a basketball coach.
28:48And we said, okay, nice.
28:50You should go there.
28:51Let's do a time trial today after the workout of 1,500 meters.
28:57And to see, you know, what he can do.
29:00And I was very shy, very respectful of old people.
29:04So I did, all by myself.
29:06Five laps around the 300.
29:08And I ran 4.47, 14 years old.
29:11And Luis, 4.47, okay.
29:15He didn't know anything about track times.
29:183.47 for 1,500?
29:214.47.
29:23Oh, 4.47.
29:254.47.
29:26And he said, okay, from now on, I'm going to design,
29:30prepare a training program so he can do before basketball practice.
29:37This was on the weekend.
29:39Came Monday.
29:41I did not show up for a whole week of practice, basketball practice.
29:47You know, hoping that he would understand, you know,
29:51what I was trying to do and forget about it.
29:54But he did not.
29:56So he yelled at me.
29:58And, you know, told me a few lies.
30:01Now I know it was a lie.
30:03A few lies.
30:04But at the time, I believed him.
30:06And he said, oh, I know a lot of athletes who is doing both two sports
30:13at the same time, blah, blah, blah, track and other soccer and whatever.
30:17There was a lie.
30:19And so I went.
30:20And my second experience with track was 2.19, okay.
30:25And my third experience was 4.03 flat at age 14.
30:33But then, Luis, this was 1977.
30:38He knew that my thing was basketball.
30:41And so he, after that championship, he never touched the subject anymore.
30:48And he invited me to participate in this basketball clinic in Brasilia.
30:59He asked me to go with him.
31:01And the basketball clinic was conducted by an American coach
31:06from George Washington University.
31:09And so I helped the coaches execute the drills, you know.
31:14And at the end of the clinic, the basketball coach removed his pair of shoes
31:20and gave it to me.
31:22And he asked Luis to translate that when I finished high school,
31:28he would give me a scholarship to play basketball, you know,
31:33at George Washington University and, you know, and go to school.
31:39That was the first time somebody mentioned university to me.
31:43Okay.
31:44Awesome.
31:45If this basketball coach thinks that I'm good enough to play basketball,
31:52I'm going to hang out around here, right?
31:54Yeah.
31:55And I remember I was good enough to play.
31:58I was 14, but I could play with 16 years old.
32:02I was tall and good enough.
32:04So I made the state team to go on Brazil's championships age group,
32:12two years older, in Sao Paulo.
32:15And at the same time, Luis came to the U.S.
32:18to do a clinic with this basketball coach.
32:22So when I returned from Sao Paulo, Luis was also returning from U.S.
32:29And a few days later, he came to my house for the first time to ask me
32:34when I was going to start track again.
32:38And I said I was quiet.
32:40I didn't say anything.
32:42And then members of my family, I'm the youngest of six kids,
32:47everybody started asking me about my track life.
32:53And I, what's going on here?
32:55Nobody has ever gone to my basketball games.
33:00Nobody knows about me as a basketball player.
33:03Why are they asking me about track?
33:06And I got really upset.
33:08I got really upset because my dad started asking me about it.
33:12My dad didn't have a clue about my sport life.
33:17So I went to Luis' house and I faced him.
33:22I said I don't want to do this.
33:23I'm not going to do it.
33:25And that was the end of it.
33:28But he did not stay away, man.
33:30He did not.
33:31And he gave me a job assisting him with basketball at a club.
33:36So he would be in my ear.
33:39I was already 15 at the time.
33:42And so he asked for, one day he gave me a ride home and he asked me to try.
33:50You know, there was a, within a month, there was a championship in Sao Paulo.
33:56And he asked me to go there and try, you know, for our friendship.
34:01And I said, okay, I'll give a try.
34:04And then I went to Sao Paulo, ran 153 in the 100 and 48 in the 400.
34:11Aged 15, broke two national records.
34:15And Luis used the idea of coming to the U.S. as the pitch, right?
34:23Okay.
34:24Now I know he also wanted to come to the U.S., okay?
34:30When he was 18 years old, he wanted to come and be Elvis Presley's bodyguard.
34:38So it was a dream of his to come to the U.S.
34:41He said, well, this kid wants to go to the U.S. to play basketball.
34:45But track can take him there quicker.
34:47Yeah.
34:48Okay?
34:49Which did.
34:52In 1981, I ran 144.3.
34:58And that opened up the doors for a scholarship in the U.S.
35:01And we came the end of the year, 1981, September.
35:07And I realized that dream, so.
35:10So I guess when you ran the 153, you were probably not doing much training at all at that stage.
35:19It's funny you say that, because when Luis left for U.S., he gave me a training program to do.
35:33I did everything.
35:34It was mainly long runs, stairs, and things, you know, like aerobic and a little bit of power.
35:41And I did the workout, so I didn't have to explain to him why I didn't do it.
35:47And then I started training with the team to go to Sao Paulo.
35:51But that's how I did.
35:54And then the competition in Sao Paulo, track competition, came up.
36:01That's when Luis started talking again.
36:04So I did about a month of training prior to three weeks prior to that competition.
36:10And, again, the way I ran, I ran the first lap 53.
36:16Then I died the second lap.
36:18But that's how I, that was my nature.
36:23This is very depressing for me, because my best time is one minute 54.
36:29But I did that when I was about 24, 25 years old.
36:33That remains my best time.
36:36So I guess this is why I wasn't an Olympic champion, but you are.
36:42What can you run now for 800 meters?
36:45I would not even try.
36:48I'm too smart for that.
36:51Do you run at all now?
36:53Or what do you do to keep fit?
36:56Okay.
36:57I never liked coffee.
36:59Okay.
37:00I grew up, you know, I was born in Brazil, grew up in Brazil.
37:04I taste coffee and I never acquired the taste.
37:08And so my caffeine is my walking or my running in the morning.
37:14So I found enjoyment and all the balance that I need, the spiritual, you know, the energy, it comes in the morning.
37:28First thing in the morning, I put my shoes on and I go on a three miles, five kilometers walk.
37:35That's how I connect with nature.
37:40And so I got, you know, I used to run, but the running was too aggressive, too, you know, it was hurting me a lot.
37:49And the walking doesn't do that.
37:52So I do the walk.
37:54Sometimes I shuffle, you know, I do the bike if I want to sweat.
38:00Yeah.
38:01But I don't miss it.
38:03No.
38:04No.
38:05And you, this must be a busy, a busy summer for you because it's the Olympics and Paralympics.
38:13Did you say you've worked with U.S. Paralympics for, is it 19 years now?
38:1819 years.
38:1919 years.
38:21And do you mainly manage athletes and manage a program or do you coach athletes individually?
38:27How does it, how does it all work?
38:30I lead the program at the training center in Chula Vista.
38:35It used to be the Olympic training center.
38:37The center used to be owned by the USOC, the United States Olympic Committee, and then became United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee.
38:48They started the program in 2005 and they invite me to lead their program with resident athletes, you know, Paralympic hopeful.
38:59And it was a success.
39:02You know, in 2008, we, 2006, we got a lot of medals.
39:08We took five athletes and we brought nine medals back, including gold.
39:13And then 2008, same thing, you know, and then they kept the program.
39:18They kept it, you know, I am the head coach of that program.
39:23And just recently I became the head coach of the national U.S. team and the Paralympic team.
39:32And so in Chula Vista, I managed up to, it used to be 12 athletes, including guide runners.
39:42But now, you know, I used to do that alone.
39:45Now I have another coach that we split the number of athletes.
39:51So, you know, we manage anything between 12 to 16 athletes.
39:57And when I came in, the deal was, there was the track and field had a program there too for throws and jumps.
40:07And, and there was a coach there that was in charge of the director.
40:13He was working with one para-athlete.
40:16And, and then one able-bodied athlete, middle distance, contact him because she wants to come to San Diego.
40:24And he asked me to work with the girl.
40:27And I said, OK.
40:28And I said, OK.
40:30And, and then one able-bodied athlete, middle distance, contact him because she wants to come to San Diego.
40:38And he asked me to work with the girl.
40:41And I said, and I say, yeah, sure.
40:44Let's do this together.
40:47So for the first two years, the first two cycle, I was doing both Olympic and Paralympic sport.
40:59Helped her to qualify for the team in 2008.
41:04And then 2012 in London.
41:08Yeah.
41:09I guess back in 1984, the Paralympics would have been a much smaller event.
41:15I mean, there wasn't an actual Paralympics in LA that year, but since then it's grown and grown.
41:24And I mean, in London 2012, it was a huge success here.
41:29It was a big success.
41:31I mean, I think everybody thought the Olympics would be the main event and the Paralympics would just be, you know, a smaller event afterwards.
41:38But the British public really got into the Paralympics that year and it was massive.
41:44And lots of the Paralympians who did really well in those games became household names.
41:51And they're still really well known today.
41:53You must have been pleased with the growth of the Paralympic movement over the past 15, 20 years.
42:01Oh, yeah. That's the reason why I was brought into the Paralympics.
42:06They invite me to, you know, to help the U.S. increase the medal count.
42:16At one point, the Paralympics started in 1988.
42:22And the U.S. did really well, but then the U.S. started losing the medals because the other countries started picking up, you know, developing the sport.
42:31And so in 2005, they brought Peter Erickson.
42:37They hired Peter Erickson as a director, in fact, Peter worked for the Paralympics in the U.K.
42:47And I met Peter and he said, we want to increase the medal counts.
42:56And I don't remember how bad we were, but I remember in 2016, we went from 23 to 29 and then 52 medals, 54.
43:11And I think that I am part of that growth, you know.
43:17And, you know, he spoke about London.
43:21I was there for the Olympic Games with two athletes, Alice, one American, and the first female athlete from Saudi Arabia.
43:35And it was unbelievable.
43:38If you went on the stadium, OK, let's say if you had an accident and went into a coma on day one of the Olympic Games and woke up on day two of the Paralympic Games, you couldn't tell the difference.
43:58Is this Olympic or Paralympic?
44:00That's how big it was.
44:02Every day, it was like, wow, this is unbelievable.
44:06And the way and how people were educated on the sport, you know, walking around and people knew all the athletes and the respect and the attention.
44:20And it was unbelievable.
44:22Yeah.
44:24Now, that's great.
44:25Hopefully, Paris will be the same this summer.
44:29I think as we speak now, the opening ceremony is starting for the Olympics.
44:33So, yeah, we're going to have a good few weeks of sports this summer in Paris.
44:41I guess one final question from me then.
44:47What do you think of your events now?
44:50And you must have seen all of the guys running 141 recently.
44:56Are you surprised by this?
44:59Are you amazed?
45:00Do you think it's normal?
45:02It should be happening?
45:03What are your thoughts?
45:04It could have been a long time ago.
45:06You think so?
45:08I thought in 2012 when Rhodesia and their race would inspire the new generation to say, well, that is possible.
45:21Let's start training for that.
45:23But then it disappeared.
45:25It faded.
45:26And now it's very tough.
45:28If you're a coach, it's very tough to put in the athlete's mind, you can do this too.
45:35You should dedicate.
45:37If you follow the training, if you're patient, follow the process.
45:41That's the personal expectation you should have.
45:47But if the athlete cannot see, it's not going to happen.
45:52And now it might be different from now on, from a coach perspective.
45:58You see three kids, six kids, five or six running under 143.
46:05That's their expectation.
46:08If you're not thinking, if you're not seeing that, if you're not accepting, embracing that possibility, it might as well go fine.
46:20There's something else to do.
46:21And that's the positive thing.
46:23That's how I see it.
46:25Do I know any of those kids?
46:27No.
46:28Because in 2016, I decided to not work with able-bodied anymore on the Olympic side.
46:36But I might start again after this Olympics, Paralympics.
46:44What do you think you could run if you had the tracks and the shoes that athletes have today?
46:50And all the knowledge with nutrition and training and everything?
46:55Oh, I don't know.
46:58You know, I was blessed with having some great runners in my time.
47:03You know, Sebastian Cole, James Robson, you know, Peter.
47:09Even Steve Avette was an annoying person in the 1500 meters.
47:15I mean, he was dominant, you know, in the 15.
47:18Saeed Dawita, you know.
47:21And the two Brazilians that later became my teammates.
47:26I mean, I had enough stimulation in that sense.
47:32And in the shoes, I'll tell you one thing.
47:35Those shoes are not helping me.
47:38You need the personal expectation and the drive and the courage to take your body to the next level in order to make those shoes look good.
47:52To make the tracks, you know, feel fast.
47:56So without being really fit, you know, you're not going to run fast.