Linda Perry is an iconic singer- songwriter who has worked with some of the most iconic voices in music. She sits down and shares the raw making of her ‘Let It Die Here’ documentary, what it means to be queer in the music industry, some of the younger talent in music she looks forward to seeing grow and more!
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00:00I'm not a liar. I am as honest as you will find on this planet. I know that about myself.
00:07Hi, I'm Linda Perry and this is Billboard News.
00:11Now, sitting across from an icon like yourself, I feel like this is a question you might not ever get asked.
00:15So, I want to start with this. Who is Linda Perry?
00:18Linda Perry has been trying to figure it out. People think, you know, just because someone is, you know,
00:23I'm pretty tough, I'm aggressive, I'm a powerful person. I get that. I see that about me.
00:28I'm very talented. I'm smart. I'm a great mom. I'm a great friend. I'm all these things.
00:34I'm a great songwriter. But sometimes you lose your way. That's what this film is about.
00:39And in real time, I kind of figured things out. I'm still putting the pieces together.
00:45I don't think, honestly, anybody truly knows who they are until they can be at one with everything.
00:53I guess I'm trying to get to that point where I don't have a reaction.
00:57Because reactions are emotional.
00:59You even have said, you know, kind of a female Bruce Springsteen. So where did that analogy come from?
01:04I love Bruce Springsteen. I was making a joke about it because sometimes I like to think I'm Bruce Springsteen
01:11and sing like Bruce Springsteen and then a song will come and, you know, I should be collaborating with Bruce Springsteen.
01:18But I made the joke as a reference to I can be anything I think about, but sometimes I don't know how to be me.
01:26You say, you know, I'm tough. I'm all of these things.
01:29Sometimes I feel like in this day and age, some people try to say, oh, you shouldn't call women tough.
01:34You shouldn't say this because of their personality is this way or this way.
01:37Do you feel like that's something you've earned and that you want to wear?
01:40Is that you're a tough person that's been through a lot?
01:42I'm not trying to make a statement. I don't, you know, I'm not following a girl power situation.
01:48I'm just me. And I've always been very determined, motivated, driven.
01:54Anytime anybody asserts themselves and shows power of who they are, you're considered tough.
02:03You say like, you know, you've arrived there.
02:06Can you think of a catalyst or a moment that you feel like pushed you into being this person that you are today professionally?
02:12Yeah, when my mom pushed me out of her vagina, like that's when it...
02:17You're like, it started at the beginning. You're like, honestly, we have to go all the way back to the top.
02:22I trust the universe. I was put in the position I was with the family that I was brought up with for a reason.
02:29I can see why I had to go through certain things. I can see why my mom was a certain way.
02:37I can see why my dad was a certain way. So I don't want to take anything away from that.
02:43But I was pretty much put in an awkward position when I first arrived.
02:49I retreated as much as I could. I found my narrow way out. And it was through music.
02:57One more time. Same punch. Good. One more time. Same punch.
03:03Did you kind of process all of those emotions as you were filming the documentary and as these things started happening to you with her illness, your illness?
03:11Or was this something you already were kind of working through before you started filming?
03:15I think I'm still working it through because my mom was diagnosed with dementia, but I think she had it way before that.
03:22My mom was super stubborn and didn't want to go to the doctor.
03:26My mom was the kind of woman that went to beauty school one day and felt like she knew more than the teacher.
03:33When I found out that my mom had dementia, it was then when I started trying to figure some things out and let go of some things
03:42and start doing the processing of why am I hanging on? There's the bigger question.
03:48Like, you know, because as a kid and you're growing up, you're holding on to these wounds, these scars that weren't yours.
03:56So we hold on to this stuff. Why don't we just throw it away? Why are we carrying this luggage that's not ours? Right.
04:01So then it becomes like we're still trying to blame the person who left the luggage.
04:06They just left it. They gave it to us. They didn't say keep it for the rest of your life. Right.
04:11It takes years to figure that out.
04:14I started going through the luggage and seeing what I've actually been carrying around because I didn't never looked.
04:20It's pretty amazing. I turned out the way I did. Everything else was running against me.
04:26No, that's not right.
04:27And do you feel like that is what started the documentary process? Or were you already working on it when you started?
04:33Oh, no. The documentary, let me make this clear. I was not making, I never, I didn't even know we were making a documentary.
04:39Don Hardy, I became friends with him because I scored a film of his called Citizen Pen.
04:45And then one day he was like, you're so interesting. Do you mind if I like I'm like a fly on the wall in your studio?
04:51I'm like, sure. Can I use some of this for content?
04:55Content.
04:56On my Instagram. That's what I'm thinking. Right.
04:59And during this process, he's a fly on the wall. Things are starting to happen.
05:04I start unraveling. And it wasn't until he came to me one day and he said, listen, you know that footage I've been capturing?
05:12And I'm like, yes. He's like, I kind of put an edit together. It's like 30 minutes.
05:17And I showed it to somebody. And they think, well, we all think there's a documentary here.
05:23And I said, you don't need my permission. Just do what you're going to do. I fully trust you.
05:28That is very trustworthy.
05:30You know, and stuff happened, you know, and then I got sick and then, you know, my mother got sick and all of that was happening in real time.
05:41It all makes sense now. Like why I had to unravel in real time.
05:47And if I would have thought about it, if I knew it was going to happen, never would have ever approved anything like this.
05:54But now it exists. And what are you hoping that you can accomplish or that the message that comes from this for other people?
06:01I think we all run around trying to be raw versions of ourselves. We all run around saying we don't care.
06:08We all run around saying, you know, I don't need to put makeup on and I'm going to be really real and I'm going to be honest.
06:15The truth is we're not at all. I've never seen a film like this. You know, it's so uncomfortable.
06:25There's a scene where it's so raw that's happening in the closet, you know, where I'm literally having a spiral. I'm breaking down.
06:33That would never I would have never let that go. But I filmed it myself because I felt something coming.
06:39And so Don always said, if anything, if you got anything to say and I'm not there, just put your camera on.
06:45I look like a crazy person twirling around in my fucking closet, you know, and I just sent it because I knew if I would have even thought two seconds, I would have never sent it to him.
06:56But what I would like for people to get out of it's like honesty. Raw, real, true honesty is really beautiful.
07:08So even though I disassociate with this film and I have to pull myself out of it, I can't watch it as Linda. It's her.
07:18I hope people see that and make more films, make more documentaries, write more songs, do more interviews with this kind of honesty.
07:29I was abused mentally, emotionally, physically. As a child, I developed a pattern as an adult of self-abuse.
07:37Because of my mother, the gift that she left me, it was the gift to free yourself. You have nothing to prove. Go do write whatever you want about me.
07:51Tell whatever story you want about me, but just let it go. And that's why I asked if we could call the movie Let It Die Here because I wrote a song called Let It Die Here for her.
08:06And in the past, I feel like you've said you kind of hid away from writing your own stories and you would write other people's.
08:13So how do you process this going into the studio differently when you're writing your own feelings now versus other people's?
08:19Everything I do is true, even if it's about you. I have long conversations with the artist before I even write anything.
08:29But I was having a problem writing songs for people because I don't know how to tell my words through someone else's experience.
08:40It started to feel like a lie to me, you know, and I'm not a liar. I am as honest as you will find on this planet. I know that about myself.
08:53And when it was feeling like I was creating lies, I stood outside of my studio. I have this really pretty lawn and I just said, universe, I'm done writing for people.
09:06I want to score a film on TV. And that's where Don showed up. All of a sudden, a week later, I'm scoring this film that he asked me to do.
09:23What do you think makes a good songwriter and producer?
09:26What makes a great producer is someone who is honest with their artist. Someone who makes their artist feel safe in their environment.
09:37Someone who leaves the ego outside of the studio. And for me, when my artists walk in, I don't care who you think I am. I'm just as equal. I'm down here with you.
09:52I don't know more than you. I'm not greater than you. I am your equal and I'm going to create with you.
10:01I feel a producer needs to listen, let their artist be heard, and just write the best songs you can.
10:09Who are some people that are inspiring you that you've seen that you feel like are bringing that artistry back to the industry?
10:15Well, I think when Brandi Carlile showed up, it was, you know, Brandi's been around here a long time. She just was finally seen and heard.
10:25I think when she showed up, she brought in this whole thing that artists forgot.
10:32And it was hard work, touring, knowing who you are before you're in the studio, writing stories from your heart, not just what is trendy.
10:43And having something to stand for. I really love Phoebe Bridgers. I love Paris Jackson. She hasn't been able to tell her story yet, but I can hear it bubbling.
10:56I'm an Aries. You could do something one time and I would know it. I would know how to replicate it.
11:04My brain picks up things very quickly. And earlier on in my career, I realized that.
11:14And so I put a stop to listening to music because I was afraid that anything that would enter my brain or my system, I would not intend to do it, but it would influence, you know, my sound, who I am.
11:32I don't want to replicate what greatness someone else already did. Everybody wants to be everybody else.
11:39And if you watch the in real time, what's going on in the world, that's exactly what we're dealing with. People influencing other people to be like them.
11:55But then you have artists, like you said, like Brandi Carlile, who are kind of paving their own way and doing their own thing.
12:00And I do want to kind of touch on something that I read, how she called you a queer icon and wrote you a fan letter. Do you remember actually receiving a fan letter from Brandi Carlile?
12:09No. So when we met, it's like we knew each other already. I was just like in awe of her record and her career, everything.
12:16And then she told me that. I'm like, listen, if you sent me the letter, I never got it or I don't remember it for sure.
12:23And such a sweet heart, you know, a kind, gentle person, human being and so giving of her energy. And I just loved that.
12:33I loved meeting that energy as much as I loved Dolly Parton's energy the same. Very giving. Her frequency is extremely high.
12:46A very creative woman that wants to lift other people up. But there's a lot of artists that are brewing with that type of energy of I'm going to do what I'm going to do.
13:00And I don't really care what you think of it. And then also with Brandi calling you a queer icon, what was that journey like for you?
13:08Is that something you always knew or felt or when did you feel comfortable kind of owning that with how rapidly the industry changed?
13:16I've owned my queerness from day one. When Four Non Blondes got signed, Interscope did this interview to see how we would do in interviews.
13:25I don't know. Labels used to do that. Media training. Media training. There we go. But it wasn't really media training.
13:32So they're asking us all these questions and then it's like cut to. So what is it like being, you know, when did you come out or, you know, when did you discover I'm gay or you're gay?
13:44And I answered the question exactly. And they're like, aha. OK, so that's where we're going to have to tone it down.
13:52And I was just like going, what? Tone what down? What what is this? Did we just get punked?
13:58You know, like so it was all a setup to see how I would respond to any questions about being gay.
14:06And I said, listen, I have a news flash for you. I'm gay and I'm going to be proud about it. I don't wear it on my sleeve.
14:16I am the outfit. You know, I will not have to answer a question about writing as a gay person because I am a gay person.
14:26I'm just writing, you know, and so all these tricks were put in front of me and I failed them all because I stuck to the truth.
14:35And my funniest moment was this interviewer was sitting with me and Roger, the guitar player, asked me, what do I do when we're not touring?
14:49And I'm like, well, I usually hang out with my girlfriend and we watch movies. Roger, what do you do, you know, when you're off of tour?
14:59And then Roger brings it back. Well, I usually go to Linda and her girlfriend's house and watch movies.
15:04And the person was so uncomfortable. And then so then finally we get on the David Letterman.
15:11My guitar said Dyke and Choice on it. And so we do our sound check and everything.
15:18And then they come, the stage manager or whatever executive comes and it's like there's this really great vintage guitar store.
15:26Everybody goes to it and everybody loves it. It's really famous. Have you ever heard of it?
15:32No, I haven't. Well, we're prepared to buy you whatever you want if you and but we feel like the statement on your guitar is maybe too much for our program.
15:45And I'm like, which one, Dyke or Choice? You know, and she was like, well, kind of both of them.
15:53And I'm like, OK, well, just so you know, I didn't write this to make a statement.
15:59This is my guitar. You can see footage of it that it's the guitar I play.
16:04I'm not trying to be political right now. It's just who I am.
16:08And as generous as this is for you to buy me a guitar, if my guitar doesn't play, I don't play.
16:17And I just want to make that clear that that is now you have made it political.
16:22Now she left and she came back and she said, OK, everything is fine.
16:28Now, my regret was I should have got the guitar and just didn't use it.
16:32It's a free guitar. The dumbest thing. But anyways, they started on my guitar.
16:37It's like and then that that that that's the thing about life and people.
16:41They want to see how far they can push you. And if you back down, they know they got you wrapped around their finger.
16:48But if you stand up and push back, you won. You win. You win every single time.
16:55And I just love hearing like you tell your story of like how you stay true to yourself and how honest you are,
17:00because that does transition into your music. I know you probably heard this a thousand times from a millennial gay man.
17:06But like listening to Beautiful when I was young and in songs like that really changed me and inspired us and made us feel comfortable
17:14when someone like you was already being a pioneer and rocking and being who you are.
17:18So from someone that enjoys that music, thank you for keeping that honesty in what you do.
17:26And then also with I want to talk to about being a pioneer in the industry when you were doing your original writing,
17:33you you didn't get credited for some of the work you did producing.
17:36That was probably because of so many things. One is ego. The male ego in the business is pretty big.
17:47But the ego is also insecurity. They do everything they can to smash you down.
17:53I'm already coming in vulnerable, but I also have my confidence and my power.
17:57I get my power from the vulnerability and the weakness. You know, it turns it all into strength for me.
18:04I had to figure that out quickly. And after the situation with the Four Non Blondes and me producing the hits that What's Up became,
18:15I had to just go, OK, I get it. This is the game I'm in.
18:21It's not just about being a creative person and going out and singing your emotions and drinking and smoking and partying.
18:28It's about stamina. How long are you going to last?
18:41You have to start creating ways to to have stamina and be powerful and to persevere through this very male dominated business
18:49that doesn't want people to shine unless you're a pop star that they control.
18:55I learned quick, but for some reason, people didn't bug me. They stepped out of my way and just let me plow right through.
19:02I knew something was going on, but I just didn't take it as a reason for me to slow down.
19:10But you've done a lot of work, I feel like, to empower women to continue to do that, equalize her and everything like that.
19:16So what do you feel like advice you would give to a woman starting in the industry today on how to, for lack of use of better words, be like you?
19:24I don't want anybody to be like me. What I do is just be me.
19:30And hopefully somebody thinks it's cool or refreshing or inspiring in some way.
19:39And it invites them to find who they are and how they can be powerful.
19:46I think it's very important that we always stay individual.
19:51I could give you everything that I have. I can give you this hat to wear, this outfit to put on.
19:58I could tell you how I mic every single instrument. I could show you how to play guitar.
20:05I could show you the guitar. I could give you the guitar that I play.
20:09I could put you in my studio with all my gear and you will never, ever have my ears.
20:16You will never hear what I hear. You will never be me. You will never sound like me, look like me at all.
20:24You won't write a song like me either.
20:26And I think that that's what's empowering, is to know that we just gain inspiration.
20:33We pick up things along the way. We're like a tumbleweed.
20:36You know what I mean? We're just picking up shit as we go along.
20:40And then what's going to make you powerful is all that information that you've picked up
20:45and then you're going to put it all into one.
20:47And then you're going to use your ears, your words, your heart to make your creation and to be who you are.
20:57That's what I inspire people to do.
21:00We're just tumbleweeds picking up shit that sometimes we've got to unpack.
21:04Thank you so much, Linda, for this conversation today. I really enjoyed it.
21:08Absolutely.