PML-N's Irfan Siddiqui's reaction to Khawaja Asif's statement
PML-N's Irfan Siddiqui's reaction to Khawaja Asif's statement
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00:00Irfan Siddiqui Sahab, thank you very much.
00:02First of all, tell us, Khwaja Asif Sahab of your party,
00:05who has given a statement,
00:07this statement has caused a lot of commotion.
00:09So, the gestures he is giving,
00:11the way he is talking about Aayini Toot Poot,
00:14do you agree with his statement?
00:19Thank you very much, Sadr Adhaf.
00:22And congratulations to you and Ashfaq for today's program.
00:27May God bless you with a good two hours.
00:30And may we also have a good time with you.
00:34I have heard Barrister Sahab,
00:37he is one of my very good friends.
00:39He should say this,
00:41and this should be his point of view,
00:43as a party loyalist,
00:45and as his advocate.
00:47As far as Khwaja Sahab is concerned,
00:50Khwaja Sahab is not a novice in the field of politics.
00:55He has a long career.
00:57He has come to the National Assembly several times.
00:59He was a minister, and still is a minister.
01:01And he is one of the very important ministers.
01:04What he has said,
01:06he is saying that he can see,
01:09he can see a meltdown, a constitutional meltdown.
01:13When he says he can see it,
01:15he is not giving any news,
01:17he is not giving any information.
01:19He is presenting his own analysis,
01:21his own analysis,
01:24and there are some reasons behind that analysis.
01:28He has not shot an arrow in the air.
01:30He is seeing,
01:32look, Sadaf and Ashfaq,
01:34look at why the country becomes a victim of the tyrants,
01:39when the institutions, the influential institutions,
01:42are not able to determine their sphere of work,
01:45or are not able to perform those duties well,
01:48which are handed over to them.
01:51Now, he has a complaint,
01:53he has a complaint with the Election Commission.
01:55It is possible that the Election Commission will make a mistake.
01:58I am saying that the biggest institution in this regard,
02:01if we talk about a constitutional meltdown,
02:04it is the courts.
02:06And that is why Churchill said in the Great War,
02:09that if the courts are working,
02:11then nothing happens to us.
02:13Now, the question is arising here,
02:15whether our courts are making decisions
02:19within the scope of the constitution and the law,
02:22or are they deviating from the law,
02:24and deviating from the constitution.
02:26Like this is a recent decision,
02:28there is no reference to it in the constitution and the law.
02:31Look at the articles of the constitution,
02:34just now you talked about the electoral reforms of Ashfaq Bagh.
02:38In 2015, when the PMLN was in power,
02:41a committee was formed across the board,
02:44and the PTI was also included in it.
02:46And the PTI played a big role.
02:48It presented twenty amendments,
02:50and it had a total of 118 meetings.
02:53After 118 meetings,
02:55a great deal was prepared.
02:57Nine to ten laws were amended in relation to the election,
03:01and a document, which we call Election Act 2017,
03:05was implemented.
03:07Now, that Election 2017,
03:09what is our constitution saying?
03:12What is our law saying?
03:15What is the Election Act saying?
03:17It says that when a free party
03:19takes a stand in the assembly,
03:21it will get three days to join a party.
03:25When it joins,
03:27another notification will be issued
03:29that this is a party of the PMLN,
03:31this is a party of the PTI,
03:33this is a party of the People's Party,
03:35and it will be considered as a party
03:37of the People's Party or PTI.
03:39This exercise has been done.
03:41All free parties have joined a party
03:43of their own free will.
03:45Here, the constitution is silent.
03:47Does a person who has joined a party,
03:51has entered the party,
03:53has the permission to leave that party
03:55and join another party?
03:57The constitution does not allow this.
03:59The law does not allow this.
04:01The PTI has been declared a parliamentary party.
04:04This has been decided on the basis of that.
04:06But there is one aspect to this.
04:08Mr. Irfan, the reference you gave
04:10was to the Election Act of 2017.
04:13Now, one thing is that
04:15who can know the constitution better than you
04:18that it has superiority over any act,
04:20over any law.
04:22The second thing is that
04:24when we talk about the Supreme Court,
04:26it has the power to interpret the constitution.
04:28And then the decisions of the Supreme Court
04:31also have a legal status.
04:35And those decisions are also courted.
04:38And here, another point of view
04:40that our friends from the Noon League
04:42are taking is that
04:44the PTI was not a party at all.
04:46So, they have covered it
04:48as complete justice,
04:50under the basket of absolute justice.
04:52So, do you disagree with that?
04:56I totally disagree with that.
04:58The concept of total justice
05:00is where you have
05:02a written constitution
05:04with its principles,
05:06with its words,
05:08with its work,
05:10with its full stop.
05:12Now, the court interprets it
05:14when it is needed.
05:16When the interpretation is needed.
05:18When it is clear like a mirror.
05:20When there is no ambiguity in it.
05:22For example,
05:24we had a decision
05:26in which it was said
05:28that the person who does not vote
05:30according to his party line
05:32will be de-seated.
05:34This is what the law says.
05:36And the law ends here.
05:38Our court added that
05:40he will be de-seated
05:42and his vote will not be counted.
05:44Could it not have come to the minds
05:46of the legislators
05:48that his vote will not be counted?
05:50When the law does not say this,
05:52you have re-written the constitution.
05:54Even now, the law tells you
05:56to include these principles within three days.
05:58Why did you give them ten days?
06:00They are present.
06:02It will take them two hours
06:04to give a new affidavit.
06:06What should the Election Commission do?
06:08The Election Commission
06:10will think about it.
06:12I am raising a question about the court.
06:14Now, we have taken a petition
06:16from Nazarsani.
06:18And we have come to know
06:20that two respected people
06:22from that bench
06:24are out of the country.
06:26They have gone on a tour.
06:28They do not know that the country
06:30is under their control.
06:32It is clear that
06:34this whole mechanism
06:36has been kept in this judgment
06:38so that
06:40if it is 15 days,
06:42then it will be 7 days,
06:44then 5 days,
06:46then 10 days,
06:48then 15 days,
06:50so that until we come back,
06:52this issue remains.
06:54They are saying
06:56that the review should not be filed
06:58in the written decision.
07:00Obviously, this is a good thing.
07:02In the written decision,
07:04it is said that the devil lies in the detail.
07:06So, they should review it and then file it.
07:08The option will be there, obviously.
07:10Now, we have to find out
07:12when the written decision will come.
07:14But, Ashfaq,
07:16the thing is that
07:18when we talk about a mirror meltdown,
07:20we say that
07:22you have created an illusion
07:24and confusion
07:26that you went on a recreational tour
07:28without seeing that you did not
07:30issue a detailed decision.
07:32Now, you say that
07:34when the detailed decision will come,
07:36we will take your second opinion.
07:38And, they say that
07:40until the river comes from Iraq,
07:42the snake will die.
07:44What will happen to this country
07:46in two months?
07:48Where will the election commission go?
07:50What will the parliament do?
07:52What will the speaker say?
07:54Yesterday, you were a member
07:56of the Sunni Ijtihad Council.
07:58Now, you are a member of the PTI.
08:00The speaker can also play his role in this.
08:02The law does not say so.
08:04Regarding the assembly proceedings, Mr. Irfan.
08:06Yes, yes.
08:08I was saying that
08:10as we have seen in the past,
08:12the speaker has the right
08:14to run the assembly proceedings
08:16and he does not have
08:18to answer anyone in any matter.
08:20So, we can see this
08:22in the coming days.
08:24Look, I am saying that
08:26if I would have been sitting
08:28on the speaker's chair,
08:30then this question would have arisen in my mind
08:32that these A, B, C, D
08:34are members of the Sunni Ijtihad Council.
08:36They have given affidavits.
08:38The notification of the election commission
08:40has been issued.
08:42The law does not allow them
08:44to go to the new party again.
08:46I will think about this.
08:48Now, my court is saying that
08:50the law should go to hell.
08:52You do this.
08:54Now, I have also raised the issue
08:56of the compliance of the constitution.
08:58For a few moments, days, weeks,
09:00until the two religious leaders
09:02do not come from the assembly proceedings,
09:04I will have to think about what to do.
09:06You have put me in a dilemma.
09:08But ultimately,
09:10who is going to decide?
09:12It is not the constitution.
09:14It is the right of the constitution.
09:16It is the right of the interpretation.
09:18The constitution and the law
09:20have been completely contradicted.
09:22They have been broken.
09:24They have been neglected.
09:26This is your opinion.
09:28Mr. Irfan Siddiqui,
09:30I would like to move towards
09:32another question.
09:34Your party's reaction
09:36regarding the ban on PTI.
09:38Then the statements created
09:40a strange situation
09:42that there was no decision.
09:44There was no consultation.
09:46Do you want to make a decision
09:48or was the press conference
09:50done in a hurry?
09:52Look, Sadaf,
09:54I am not a privy.
09:56I have not attended
09:58any such meeting.
10:00I try not to say anything
10:02about the information
10:04that I do not have access to.
10:06In principle,
10:08I say that
10:10our official government
10:12interpreter,
10:14he has said one thing.
10:16It is not that he had a dream
10:18in the morning and said it.
10:20It has been discussed somewhere.
10:22But if you allow me,
10:24I will take
10:26just 1-1.5 minutes
10:28from this question.
10:30I am not saying that there should be a ban.
10:32Let's forget it for a minute.
10:34Let's put this question aside.
10:36I say that
10:38Article 17
10:40of the Constitution
10:42Article 17
10:44has 5-6 articles below it.
10:46It does not allow you
10:48to form a community,
10:50to form a political organization,
10:52to form an association.
10:54It gives you the fundamental right.
10:56In that same article,
10:58it stipulates a few things
11:00that you will not do anything
11:02against the sovereignty of the country.
11:04You will not do anything
11:06against the integrity of the country.
11:08You will not do anything
11:10against the integrity of the country.
11:12These are their words.
11:14These are not my words.
11:16You leave it.
11:18Whether you put a ban or not,
11:20whether any benefits come out of it
11:22or not.
11:24You keep doing this.
11:26You make a forum of intellectuals
11:28and say that under Article 17,
11:30if any party or group
11:32attacks the state,
11:34invades 200 places
11:36of the state,
11:38breaks the memories
11:40of the martyrs,
11:42tries to rebel.
11:44Do all these things
11:46come under Article 17?
11:48And should these things
11:50be considered a political activity
11:52or a violation of Article 17?
11:54If PTI is a political group
11:56under these clauses,
11:58then it can be thought about.
12:00Your party has decided this question.
12:02Why are there different kinds
12:04of statements coming from your party?
12:06Why was this realization
12:08after a year
12:10after the decision of the Supreme Court
12:12on July 12?
12:14And if the realization was made,
12:16then why was there a backpedal?
12:18Look,
12:20this is a decision.
12:22As Mr. Dar said,
12:24it is not that
12:26a decision has been made
12:28and we are not a court
12:30that we will give a decision
12:32without looking at the law
12:34The court gives decisions
12:36on the basis of the law, Mr. Irfan.
12:38You didn't give a decision.
12:40You tell me.
12:42This is a tradition.
12:44The one who gets a decision
12:46praises the court.
12:48The one who is opposed
12:50sits in the court
12:52and says such things.
12:54Look, Sadaf,
12:56listen to me patiently.
12:58We have made every decision
13:00with great difficulty
13:02or not with great difficulty
13:04but with great disappointment
13:06and reservation.
13:08I remember
13:10when a decision was made
13:12not to take salary from my son.
13:14I was sitting with
13:16Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.
13:18There was no other opinion.
13:20I made a press release
13:22that I am going home after this decision.
13:24This is not the case.
13:26The thing is that
13:28don't ask PMLN about this decision.
13:30Make a forum
13:32and ask him.
13:34Justice, law,
13:36and constitution
13:38have been messed up.
13:40Justice is done by the panchayats.
13:42For example,
13:44a person has committed a murder.
13:46The panchayat says
13:48he has done it
13:50but his father is not there.
13:52His widow is a mother.
13:54There is no one to pay for his expenses.
13:56He has children.
13:58It is a long debate.
14:00It is not a long debate.
14:02Let it end.
14:04The court cannot make this decision
14:06because the court is not giving justice.
14:08The court has to look at the law and constitution.
14:10The wide concept of justice
14:12that is created for PTI
14:14is the reason
14:16that you have left the law and constitution.
14:18I am sure that if you go to the review,
14:20you will get something.
14:22Let's see what happens.
14:24Thank you so much Irfan Siddiqui.