Kent Politics Show Special: Election 2024 (07:07-07:34)
Watch back KMTV's live coverage of the UK's 2024 General Election results.
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00:00Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the KMTV studio here. I'm pleased to say I'm joined
00:11by Tudor Price from Kenneth Victor Chamber of Commerce and Kelly Green from Dartford
00:16Borough Council as well, Labour councillor. Thank you very much for joining us, Kelly,
00:20virtually. Glad we could have you on. Good morning. It feels like we should be saying
00:24good night or good evening, but it is in fact good morning. Seven o'clock, we're at. Three
00:28hours to go. Okay, that was the last Kent result we just had, Roger Gale. A surprise
00:35to some, not so surprising to others, because we saw that exit poll come in and we thought
00:42that it was going to be going Labour, which was the shock, that it was going to be going
00:45Labour, but there he was. You're right. I think we could probably tell in Roger's voice
00:51actually he was equally surprised. Obviously, he was expecting it to go against him and
00:55he was obviously feeling quite humbled. I know Roger from work we've done before in
01:00his part of the world and he's been a solid stalwart for the residents and the voters
01:07in that part of the world. I think I'm pleased to see him stay in post because actually he's
01:13done a tremendous amount for businesses and for the community here in Kent. I'm sure he'll
01:17continue to do great things. We've been discussing how the exit polls, we see less shocks in
01:22elections now because the exit polls seem so exact. We just say, yes, that's what we
01:27expected, but that's probably the shock was the exit poll and now it's sort of come back.
01:34It's a very interesting seat to look at here. So, what is that safe exit polls and how they
01:39actually shore up in the big scheme of things once all the counts are in? Yes, exit polls
01:43I think are an essential element, I think, of any election night coverage because it
01:48sort of keeps you guessing because on one hand you think you know the answer and then
01:51of course there are surprises along the way. I think for the vast majority of people they
01:56appreciate an early shout as to what the potential outcome might be that they can turn in for
02:00the night, unlike the hardy few that are here working their socks off overnight. So, I think
02:07the exit polls, they give a good indication. It just reinforces what some of the speculation
02:13has been prior to the actual vote itself. But I think it's gone better for Labour than
02:19they had originally expected and I think that's, from a business perspective, I would say this
02:24is probably the best outcome and I don't say that because it's one political party over
02:29another, but we had a majority within the Conservative Party who were the ruling government
02:35at the time. We've now moved across to another majority and one of the things that the business
02:40community desperately needs now is that stability and certainty. And when you have a government
02:46that has a majority it means they can get things done in double quick time. So, this
02:51is perhaps from a business perspective the best possible outcome that we will see. The
02:56worst thing might be something like America where you see challenges on accounts and start
03:01to sort of have fragmentation, you have coalitions and of course you look around Europe. There
03:06are some, I think Belgium being a good example, they've spent ages sort of trying to form
03:10a coalition. It doesn't last, it falls apart and that all adds to the uncertainty and instability
03:15which has been the real problem and the blocker for growth here in Kent.
03:18There's a lot to say with business, especially in your position, Tudor, and I want to come
03:22on to sort of more in depth with that. But Kelly, I want to bring you in here. A good
03:26night for Labour in Kent and part of that seat was in Dartford. Just your response to
03:31the night, to the count, the results in Dartford as well.
03:36I think it's fair to say we are absolutely over the moon in Dartford Labour. I was actually
03:42on KMTV last election when the exit poll came in. Very different feeling this time.
03:49When the exit poll came in, obviously we were delighted but we never dared to believe that
03:54we would win in Dartford until the very moment the announcement was made that Jim had won.
04:00We are absolutely over the moon. We can't wait to get started. Jim is going to be an
04:05absolutely fantastic MP. I've been up now for I think 28 hours. Every second of it has
04:12been worth it. We've worked so hard the last six weeks and we really just can't wait to
04:16get to work. And it's really nice that Dartford has kept its history of being the longest
04:21serving bellwether in the country. So we're pleased that record didn't go today because
04:27we wanted to keep that record and we're just thrilled that we have.
04:31And it's been an interesting, you say 28 hours there. It's been a case for all of us, I say
04:37especially politicians, journalists, we're the people that thrive off of this and our
04:42audience dropping in throughout the night and the morning to catch up on the area that
04:46matters to them as we deliver that live. But what's it been like watching that, surrounded
04:52by other people? I don't know, were you at the count earlier? What have you been doing
04:57in those 28 hours?
05:00So I think I delivered my first leaflet at half past six. We finished door knocking I
05:05think at half past nine. I had a very quick shower, a very quick meal and went to the
05:10count in Dartford. We were sampling and all that sort of thing. And I literally didn't
05:14know the result. It was very close to Dartford until it was announced on the stage. So it's
05:19been a, well, a fantastic night, but it was very stressful up until that moment. I think
05:26everybody that campaigns in an election, the stress of it and the excitement of it and
05:31the agony and the ecstasy of fighting elections and losing and fighting elections and winning
05:36can't really be underestimated. But as I say, we're just absolutely over the moon in
05:41Dartford Labour to have won tonight. I don't think it was expected that we would be a win
05:47and we're delighted to have proven everyone wrong.
05:50And part of that door knocking and that canvassing, getting out there, speaking to people is
05:54knowing what those local issues are, what local businesses are struggling as well. Kelly,
05:59some of the things that residents have been telling you, and if you can specifically talk
06:03about any local businesses and what they've been facing as well, and then we can bring
06:07Tudor in on some analysis. I think obviously the last five years have been particularly
06:13hard for small businesses. I represent an area, Temple Hill, that's got a lot of small
06:17businesses and it's been very, very difficult time. And there's no real reason to think
06:23that a difficult time is going to have ended up until now. I'm really excited about what
06:27Labour are going to do on business rates. I think that's going to make a huge difference.
06:31The cost of living, as we talk about how hard it's been for households and rightly so,
06:36but the cost for a lot of businesses of trying to pay fuel and stock prices that have been
06:41rising has largely been forgotten, I think. I think small businesses are the forgotten
06:46victims of everything that's happened since Liz Truss' disastrous business.
06:50And I'm really hopeful now that we can turn a new chapter and that Labour will bring a lot
06:55of success to the small business community, because my experience is that it's small
06:59businesses that make a community. I know as someone who's been involved in the PCA and
07:04all things like that in the industry, that it's always small businesses that step up
07:07to the plate and support local charities, local schools, all that sort of thing. And
07:13I think it's right that now we find a way to make sure that those local businesses are
07:16supported moving forward. Now we come out of the difficult times of the Conservative
07:20government. And Tudor, something we had Jason Rainbird on from Flowbird earlier, and he
07:26was discussing some of those challenges. He said it's not going to be easy necessarily.
07:31It's not all sunshine and rainbows for businesses. Of course, there are going to be things in
07:35there that aren't going to be the best news ever. Take us through some of those. What
07:39do they mean to the people waking up watching now, thinking about their local shops, their
07:44local barbers, their hairdressers, the shops that they go to in the high streets every day?
07:49Okay, so it sort of starts upstream quite a bit. And Kelly just mentioned the Liz Trust
07:54situation. Now, what we all learnt then is actually the confidence that the government
08:02has in the markets and vice versa can actually have a huge, huge impact on the wider business
08:09economy. And that trickles down, of course, to all the small businesses. And as Kelly
08:12quite rightly points out, the majority of the businesses here in Kent and Medway are
08:16smaller micro-businesses. So one of the things that businesses crave is stability and certainty.
08:23Now, you mentioned Jason from Flowbird earlier. It doesn't really matter what flavour of government
08:28is as long as you know what it is they are going to do and how long they're going to be there for.
08:32So if they're clear about their plans, then what that means is most businesses can then
08:35navigate their way through. They can accommodate the taxing breaks and all the bits and pieces.
08:39Labour were criticised by not having such a clear plan and still some questions unanswered.
08:47Kelly, people are mentioning tax a lot and discussing that manifestos can be shiny and
08:54gleaming. But actually, when you come into power, what are the unwritten, the maybes and the ifs
09:00that could be implemented then? So what about people's worries going into this election for a
09:08Labour government, Kelly? Well, we had a very clear business plan that was set out by Johnny
09:13Reynolds that I hope reassured a lot of businesses. And I think our success in the election tonight
09:17suggests that a lot of businesses have voted Labour, people that run businesses have voted
09:21Labour, and they were convinced by the plans that we put forward. We've been very clear about what
09:27we're not going to bring in terms of taxes in the future. It's disappointing that the Conservatives
09:31run a negative campaign and sort of push fear onto people. But it's very good that people weren't
09:38taken in by that, as we can see by the election results tonight. Basically, I would say that we
09:43all know that if small businesses are doing well, we're all doing well. As I said earlier, small
09:47businesses are the backbone of many communities. And I think Labour's got a very clear plan for
09:51business. And thankfully, people have seen that and voted Labour in their masses. So hopefully,
09:57the future's bright. And certainly the small businesses in my district work incredibly hard.
10:04I'm very aware they've had a very, very difficult five years. And I really hope now they can see
10:08kind of an end to that suffering and that difficulty now having a stable government
10:13coming forward that have got very, very clear plans. I just wanted to come back in there really
10:20with what Kelly was saying about the stability inside of things. One of the things that we are
10:23really keen to see now is that we have that infrastructure put forward. So that's absolutely
10:32critical. What we've learnt is that the trickle-down effect of key infrastructure projects
10:37is massive, certainly in this part of the world. So one of the things that the Labour Party was
10:42saying quite early on is they're going to make tough decisions. Now, that's what we're looking
10:46for. They're going to have to make tough decisions, which will upset some people.
10:49But what it will do is release the infrastructure projects that will then have the massive effect
10:55on growth. And they're banking all of their fiscal plans on that growth. So they have to make sure
11:00that they have that infrastructure projects going ahead and also that they have the same people in
11:07post for as long as possible. I think we can see up on our screen now. Now, this is the Kent result.
11:13This is what the map looks like. That exit pole, not predicting that orangey-yellow bit in the
11:18bottom there. We didn't expect that to come. Well, we expected it. The exit pole didn't.
11:24That's up for debate there. But we can see that real divide when it was just that Canterbury spot
11:30that was red and Dover after. That's the Elphick defected, of course. But yeah, very different
11:37picture here in Kent. How do you feel seeing that map? Because I always think when you see
11:41the colours, it really does put it into a bit of perspective and you see the sort of geography.
11:46Well, I think when I look at the number of projects and and issues that are being felt
11:53up and down the county at the moment, it's encouraging to see that you have potentially
11:58a Labour MP in that area. And of course, they are then hopefully going to be the party.
12:04They are the party, obviously, in government, but they will have those connections. So when
12:08we're looking to get things done and get the wheels moving, you know, it's really important
12:12that you can sort of talk to an MP that has ultimately the power. If you're in opposition,
12:15it's not going to be quite so easy. That doesn't mean that they don't have clout and they can
12:19obviously sort of grease the wheels to try and make things happen. But the whole economy is
12:24being stagnant. It's been waiting for this to happen. And as I said at the top of the interview
12:28here, really, it is the best outcome. You know, we now have a majority government who can crack on
12:34with some of the plans and ideas they've put forward and will hopefully start to see the
12:39economy grow alongside that. Saying that, that's sort of from your position, being pleased to see
12:45a business, someone you're supporting in an area where a Labour MP is in charge.
12:50How can you reassure those businesses in those conservative constituencies that, you know,
12:56they will be OK, their voices will get heard? Perhaps it might take longer. You don't have
13:00that fast track straight to government. But how can you reassure that from your position?
13:05Well, from where we are, so obviously the Chamber of Commerce, we cover the whole of the county.
13:08And so we make sure we will be reaching out to all of the local MPs, you know,
13:12congratulate them on either the reappointment or the new appointment, as the case may be.
13:16And we'll work with them. And we found quite often that most of the MPs we talk to,
13:21once you explain the overall economic benefits of supporting a particular policy position,
13:27they normally come around and see that value. But if you're looking to do things like we're
13:31talking about the entry exit system for Dover and for Eurotunnel, or we're talking about lower
13:37Thames crossing, these are big things that you really need to be able to get to the Secretary
13:40of State or the Minister to be able to influence. And of course, if you've got connections through
13:44your local contacts, then that tends to sort of expedite matters.
13:48And Kelly, just another topic on business. We spoke to businesses before when EULA,
13:53the ultra low emission zone was expanded to the Kent border. And we spoke to businesses that would
13:58drive their vans, their vehicles across the business and 30%, 80%, we had numbers like that
14:03of their business was inside that border that they now couldn't get to and couldn't access.
14:08Is that still a really key issue? Of course, when these announcements are made,
14:12it then dies down in the sort of media political agenda, and then something else is wearing away
14:16in the background. But how important is that still to people? Because it's a huge story when EULA
14:21was expanded to Kent. Absolutely, it was a huge deal for people in
14:26Dartmouth with us being a border town and just naturally, the natural pattern of life is you
14:31don't stay in your borough or your border, people naturally drive up and forwards, you know, across
14:36the neighbouring borough, which is better for us. I think things have quietened down a lot of
14:40people's cars. Most people's cars, in fact, are EULA compliant. So I don't know if it's affected
14:46people as much as they can. I think the difficulty for people and particularly businesses and
14:50charities in Dartford is we're not eligible for the scrappage scheme. And that's always been a
14:54source of great difficulty for us. But we can't claim those kind of schemes, but they affect us
15:00in the same way. So that's been difficult. But people are raising it a lot less. I think a lot
15:05of people naturally in Dartford work in London. So they are seeing the benefits of cleaning out
15:11in their workplace. But you know, it has been difficult. And as I say, us not being eligible
15:17for the scrappage scheme has been particularly difficult. I wouldn't pretend otherwise.
15:22Businesses don't mind paying tax, you know, they would obviously prefer not to, but they will do
15:26it if they feel that there is some wider benefit to it. Likewise, there's a lot of people concerned
15:31about some of the employment law changes that might be coming through from Labour. When you
15:35start to look at the detail, and if you're a good employer, and you invest in your people, and you
15:40see the value in your people, actually, there's very little in there that will be of concern.
15:44There are maybe one or two things for large scale employers that might be problematic. But
15:48generally speaking, employers certainly here are, and in our experience in Kent and Medway,
15:52are sort of good, caring and invest in their team. So some of these things don't matter.
15:56What you need is stability. What you don't want to think, I'm going to plan now for the next 12,
16:0113, 24 months. And actually, all of a sudden, the rules are changed. And you know, this chopping
16:07and changing is what's ruined it for not just locally, but also sort of from an investment
16:10perspective nationally. And something Jason mentioned, minimum wage, and how that could...
16:16Yeah, I don't, again, it's most employers, certainly, we've come off the back of a
16:20fairly difficult recruitment period where it's been very hard to find the right type of staff.
16:24And so most employers have been obliged to pay over the odds anyway. So the sort of national
16:29minimum wage is not that much of an issue locally. The concern, of course, is where that goes and
16:36what that does to the business base generally. I would question the purpose of the national
16:43minimum wage and whether or not it's still doing what it's meant to do. If we were back in the days
16:47of Victorian sort of cotton mills and stuff like that, I might recognise the need for it. But
16:51things have changed a bit since then, and most employers actually care and invest in their staff.
16:56And Kelly, do you think a Labour government will give local businesses the confidence to expand,
17:01to push, to grow into Dartford? Are you hoping to see more? Have there recently been a reduced
17:08amount of... We've seen a lot of high streets just shutting down, so many stores, chains that we all
17:12know, but those smaller high street shops really struggling as well if the chains can't make it
17:18work. So do you hope under a Labour government, and do you think it's possible for high streets
17:22to be brought back up specifically in Dartford? Yeah, I think so. I think, for example, in the
17:27area I represent, Temple Hill, there's a little shopping parade that is completely full. And I
17:32think we talk a lot about the high street, but there's a lot of smaller kind of mini high streets
17:36around Kent that do very well and are kind of ignored when we talk about how businesses are
17:39doing, but they tend to be local independent shops that are doing quite well and really know
17:45their customers and their area and what they want. There's a number of businesses in my ward that
17:51have been around for 25, 30 years and have changed and adapted and done really well,
17:55and they're often kind of forgotten when we talk about the demise of the high street.
17:59I think the points raised by Tudor are really important. I think there's been a lack of
18:02confidence in the high street from retailers for quite some time now, and I think the things that
18:07have gone on the last 14 years, but particularly the last five years, have led to that. I'm hoping
18:13now we can see a lot more confidence that people will feel it's time to invest, people will feel
18:17brave enough to start up small businesses. That, as I say, is what makes the town thrive,
18:22is people starting up businesses, employing people, making good places for people to go,
18:27and I'm confident now that we can turn this corner, we can have the stability of a stable
18:30government, that we really have, particularly the last four or five years, that turning that
18:36corner will make a real difference. And Kelly, what about those small business owners, those
18:40residents of Dartford, heading to the polls today? Forgive me for not knowing the numbers,
18:45there's been loads of numbers chucked at me in percentages. What was the turnout like?
18:50Oh, you're testing me now. It was around, it was over 50%, but I couldn't give you the correct
18:55figure. Like you, I've had a lot of bigger thrown at me this morning. I didn't write that one down.
19:02No, no worries. But I mean, we have been seeing low numbers in the 50s, and sort of the highest
19:07was about 67 for Kent. But yeah, pretty, pretty low numbers. And you think just, just if we just
19:14look at half of the people who could vote did vote. Why do you think that is, Tudor?
19:20Oh, I don't know. I think there is a disengagement, obviously, it's been well documented
19:27that a lot of young people feel that they're disenfranchised, they're not represented by
19:31any of the parties. There is that sense that sometimes the way in which the voting system
19:37works is that my vote doesn't count. So I think there's been some well documented reasons put
19:43forward. But what we haven't seen is any real willingness from central government to sort of
19:48try and address that. There are different models around the world, you know, Australia is compulsory
19:52to vote. You know, there are others that sort of just have a different voting system altogether.
19:57So I think it's probably something that we should all take more interest in, because
20:04it's very difficult, certainly when you have sort of key issues, when we look back at the Brexit
20:08vote, you know, actually what percentage of the population voted for that and the impact that's
20:12had on everybody. So, yeah, we'd like to see something maybe done around that. I know it's in
20:17the Labour Party manifesto to have a look at some of the options that are available there. But
20:21yeah, I think engaging youth is probably another thing we need to be doing more.
20:26And when you look at those numbers, and you think of why people are coming to vote,
20:31what's engaging them if they feel disengaged? It's often down to those campaigns as well.
20:36People have been saying a lack of campaign, criticising Rishi Sunak for not coming down
20:41here to Kent. Keir Starmer launched his, where we are now, Medway at the football club round the
20:46corner. I would say that the Conservative Party probably need to take a long, hard look at their
20:52campaigning team, because... But would it have made a difference? Someone said a lot of money
20:57wasted. Probably not. I was listening to a political historian a little while ago who said
21:02that, and he was being asked the question, why is there so many scandals at the moment into the
21:05government? What's going on in Whitehall? And he sort of looked and he said, well, if you look back
21:09over the last sort of 40 years, there is a cycle here that after 10 years, politicians haven't been
21:16in opposition. They're normally sort of being brought in through various sort of safe seats
21:20and find themselves in the Houses of Parliament with a sort of sense of entitlement. And so they
21:26start to then sort of get a little bit relaxed and perhaps not quite so appreciative and feeling
21:31that sense of privilege of having been there representing people. So they start to sort of
21:34misbehave. And that seemed to be true yet again. Here we are 14 years on and we've had a whole
21:39range of scandals in the last sort of five years. So I sort of hold store by that historian. I think
21:44actually he's right. So as far as Kelly and the rest of her gang are concerned, you've got 10
21:48years before you have to start misbehaving. Kelly, while you were out there on that campaign trail
21:54and knocking on doors, I'm interested to know how many people answered the doors to you? Did
21:59everybody, was everybody willing for a chat? Everybody has such busy lives. We're all busy
22:03doing something. Do we have time to talk to people knocking on our doors, to read those leaflets?
22:08And I'm interested, did you change anybody's mind? Did anybody speak to you and go, you know what,
22:13that's the party for me. I was going to vote otherwise before you spoke to them?
22:17Yeah. It's really interesting because we're in a very different time now where people have access
22:21to a lot more information. There are a lot of doors I knock where people say that I'm going
22:24to wait until I've got all the leaflets from all the parties and make a decision when I've read
22:28them all. And you know, it's very interesting to know how many people actually do that. People
22:32obviously have access to all the manifestos online. And I find an increasing number of people
22:36say I'm going to read them all and make a decision based on that. I think the days when people voted
22:41for who their parents voted for are lessening now. There's less of that. It's really interesting.
22:47I've knocked doors where people say, why are you disturbing me? I'm having my dinner. And I've
22:51knocked other doors where people have said, you can never knock on my door. It's the first time
22:55anyone's knocked on my door. So it's very mixed opinions. I would also say this is the kind of,
23:00people have been calling it the ring doorbell election. There are doors I've knocked where
23:06there were very clearly people in that didn't answer the door because they could see who it
23:09was on their ring doorbell. And there were other doors I waited where people literally
23:13had questions written on a notepad by the door waiting for someone to knock and ask.
23:17So it's very, very varied. As I say, people have a lot more access to information now,
23:22and I think that's very relevant. People, unfortunately, also have a lot more information
23:27to miss, a lot more access, I should say, to misinformation. And there were doors I knocked
23:31where people said things that they believed to be true. Some of this was from the comments Rishi
23:35Sunak made about Labour raising taxes, which wasn't true. But other things were from kind of
23:40internet nonsense, kind of conspiracy theories. I had chats with people, and then I was able to
23:46reassure them what they'd heard wasn't true. So I would say there's a bit of changing people's
23:50mind in that. But I think, you know, when you do a knock, it isn't necessarily about
23:54changing anyone's mind or kind of giving them a hard sell about what the party's about.
23:59It's about just engaging people and listening to them. I see my job when I'm door knocking
24:03as much as anything else. It's about listening to people and hearing about their experiences
24:07and using that to kind of inform the work that I do as a councillor.
24:10Does it make enough of a difference then to spend that time, energy, money to knock on those doors
24:16if you're only changing the minds of a couple of people in the big scheme of things? Of course,
24:21every vote counts. We're trying to dispel that thought and get more people voting and exercising
24:26their rights. But is it actually worth it then if you're not going out there to change minds?
24:33I really worry about anyone who stands for office or holds any sort of elected position
24:38that doesn't knock doors or doesn't engage with the people they represent. Because, you know,
24:42my experience is my experience. But I need to speak to people that's had other experiences.
24:47You know, for example, I was talking about business. I personally have never run a business.
24:51But I go around to the businesses in my community and speak to people running them. And similarly,
24:55I knock doors and speak to people that have had very different experiences than me,
24:58maybe with their children, with elderly parents, whatever it is. I don't think you can be a good
25:03elected person unless you're making a point of going and speaking to people. And it's not their
25:09job to come and find you and speak to you. You need to speak to them and listen to them to do
25:13your job properly. I'm going to jump in and just agree with Kelly there. It's really important.
25:16We were just saying about engaging the younger people with politics and voting.
25:22It's often said you don't ever discuss religion and politics. Actually, we should be discussing
25:25politics because the level and the ability to debate and discourse nowadays is so problematic.
25:31And again, we've all heard of echo chambers on social media platforms where you only get to hear
25:35the same voice and the same opinion. And that point of going knocking on doors is you you're
25:40completely randomly exposing yourself to a range of different views and opinions. And I think
25:46obviously Kelly's well practiced at this, but you get to learn how to agree and disagree in
25:51equal measure and to sometimes open your mind to other possibilities. So the more we discuss
25:56politics, I think the better it will be for all of us. We've done it for hours tonight.
26:01It's definitely a shift to the political discussions happening on social media. It's
26:06very quick. A post on X, it goes up, it gets retweets, millions of views and just like that.
26:11But it's very different when you're one on one. It's a very different service to a tweet.
26:15But what I find interesting is the way social media is involved in these campaigns. Now,
26:20someone can read a tweet, one tweet, and that's their mind up. Fact checked or not, that's their
26:25mind made up. Absolutely. And then the impact a conversation could have. It's really interesting.
26:29And when you look at the different demographics of people voting as well, as we dive into that
26:33detail, be very interesting. Thank you both so much. Very interesting conversation. Thank you
26:38for joining us. I think we're going over to Rob now at Medway Park. Rob, how's it going?