French PM Attal offers resignation, up to Macron to decide
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00:00We are going to break into our programmes here at France 24 because
00:03the French Prime Minister, Gabriel Attal, has just arrived at the
00:06Elysee Palace, in fact, to hand in his resignation. You can see those
00:10cars there arriving. In the shot, as we have been hearing during the
00:16day here on France 24, Gabriel Attal said last night on French
00:19television that he would hand in his resignation today and it seems
00:24that he is arriving there to meet with Emmanuel Macron, International
00:27Affairs Editor. Doug Herbert is joining me here on set to bring you
00:32up to date with all the latest. Doug, it does seem then that Gabriel
00:35Attal is going to do what he said he was going to do and hand in his
00:38resignation.
00:38Yeah, like I said, he said he was going to do it. There's no surprise
00:41there. Look, what's going to happen, you know, in the medium term with
00:46the next Prime Minister, this is what all of France is asking right now.
00:49France has been left with no government, essentially. There is no
00:53parliamentary majority. There is no bloc that has emerged. Well, I
00:57mean, there's a bloc, the left-wing alliance has the most votes, but
01:01there's no clear pathway to the next Prime Minister at this point.
01:05There's going to be a lot of horse trading, a lot of haggling. Emmanuel
01:08Macron has made it clear that he's probably going to take his time in
01:13deciding, you know, the Olympics are coming up in just over two weeks.
01:16He doesn't want to have France in political tumult. He wants to keep
01:20the ship of state literally steady, at least through the Olympics. So the
01:25betting is that, you know, he's going to try to wait it out a little bit.
01:28And even though Gabriel Attal, his Prime Minister, is right now handing
01:33in his resignation, it is widely expected that Emmanuel Macron will
01:37refuse it. Let's not forget that Elisabeth Borne, when after the
01:42legislative elections, who was then Prime Minister in 2022, she went in
01:46afterwards to also hand in her resignation, and Macron refused it at
01:50the time, in order to keep things running smoothly. So we're expecting
01:54that sort of scenario. So, you know, Gabriel Attal, an interesting
01:58scenario here, because his tone, you know, he was taken completely off
02:02guard by on June 9th, when Emmanuel Macron, on the evening of the
02:05European elections, all of a sudden shocked France by calling the snap
02:08legislative elections. There was this photo that went viral on the
02:11internet showing Attal surrounded by all the other cabinet ministers,
02:15literally their faces showing their shock, they had not been told they
02:19were not in on this decision. And he clearly was not too happy about it,
02:24even if he didn't explicitly point the finger at Macron. He did say, last
02:29night, he says, Listen, I did not choose this dissolution, dissolution
02:32of the parliament. And I will, but I will not suffer through it. So
02:38basically, he has made it clear, he's sort of, if not parting ways with
02:42Macron, he's going to remain the Prime Minister of Macron's government, he
02:45clearly seems to be setting a much more independent course trying to
02:49chisel out carve out his own personality going ahead, and perhaps
02:53not leaving himself completely at the mercy of Macron and his political
02:57destiny at this point saying, you know, at this point, I don't quite owe
03:02Emmanuel Macron anything anymore. There's nothing more that he can do
03:06or give for me, I have to now make my own political destiny, I have to be
03:10to a certain extent, my own autonomous, independent figure, like I said,
03:14nothing, he said explicitly, Stuart, but it's clear that Atal right now
03:19probably sees himself as his own person. He's had time now at the helm
03:23as Prime Minister. He is clearly more popular than Emmanuel Macron. This
03:28campaign has shown that, and he's probably gained a lot of confidence
03:32along the way. And he probably has made a political calculation to a
03:35certain extent, that while in the early, you know, days, he was perhaps
03:38grateful to Macron for singling him out and choosing him at a young age,
03:42he was then 34 to be Prime Minister, he no longer really has to rely on
03:46Macron going forward. So he'll remain on as Prime Minister, in order to
03:51do his duty in order to steady that ship of state, most likely, but he's
03:56no love lost at this point, perhaps with Emmanuel Macron. And my sense
03:59is that no, he does not feel like his political bandwagon is now hitched
04:03to that of the President.
04:04If you're just tuning into us here at France 24, we just saw Gabrielle
04:08Attal's car arrive there at the Elysee Palace for him to hand in his
04:11resignation to French President Emmanuel Macron. Doug, if Macron does
04:16refuse Gabrielle Attal's resignation and says, no, I want you to stay on,
04:21even if it's temporarily during the Olympics, how do you think the left
04:24will feel about that? Because they essentially won the elections
04:27yesterday. They are obviously hoping that Emmanuel Macron will reach out
04:31to them to be able to give them a shot at being Prime Minister or somebody
04:37from one of the left wing parties to be Prime Minister. And they feel that
04:40they now have the right to start implementing their agenda. Will they
04:44be upset that this is happening at this stage? Or will they be happy, do
04:47you think, just to wait for a couple of months to let things settle and
04:51then make that move, if you like?
04:53A little of both. Publicly, they're going to continue to insist, most
04:57likely to continue to insist, quite noisily and at every opportunity,
05:01that it is incumbent, as they see it, on Emmanuel Macron to ask, to
05:07appoint a Prime Minister from the left wing alliance, given the fact that
05:10that left wing alliance, all the parties together, garnered the most
05:14seats as a bloc in this legislative election. So they would argue that
05:19the case to be made, they are the largest, if not party, the largest
05:21bloc. Next Prime Minister must come from that bloc. Macron is perhaps,
05:28he hears their argument, but what Macron is probably likely to do is to
05:33try to find ways, because his tactics have proven quite savvy, you can
05:38argue, until now. He's upended France's political landscape twice now.
05:42First, when he was originally elected, blowing up the traditional left
05:45and right and creating this new centrist movement. And now, even if
05:48that centrist movement is diminished, is a depleted movement, it still
05:53plays second ahead of the far right, still has quite a few seats trailing
05:58just behind the main left wing alliance. He probably still thinks he's
06:01in a pretty good bargaining position and still has quite a lot of sway to
06:05call the shots. I wouldn't be surprised if Emmanuel Macron in the back
06:09of his mind doesn't think at this point, he necessarily is incumbent on
06:13him to have to choose a Prime Minister from that left wing alliance. He's
06:18probably going to try to see how the dust settles. He himself has said
06:22publicly in his in his one public comment, he is going to wait to see
06:26what the structure of the next National Assembly is the makeup, the
06:31composition of it is before he rushes to any decision. So in his mind, he's
06:36holding his cards close to his chest. He's not saying explicitly, yes, I
06:40will choose a Prime Minister, let's just get through these Olympics. And
06:43then I'll go to the left and ask for a Prime Minister. He said nothing of
06:45the kind. So he's being a little coy. He's being tactically coy. But like
06:50like you said, yeah, from the left wing alliance, they are going to keep
06:54the pressure on Macron. They are going to at every turn remind France and
06:58remind the voters. Remember, you chose us you voted for us as your largest
07:02bloc. The President needs to choose one of us and the horse trading I
07:06suspect among the left is already sort of underway with all of them trying
07:11to decide who they would choose as their next Prime Minister. Remember,
07:14they need a little time as well as the dust settles. It's not just Macron.
07:18The left wing alliance needs a little time to settle among themselves to
07:22decide who could best step forward and prevent present a face of a united
07:27left wing alliance because this alliance has shown a lot of cracks and
07:30fissures. It's hasn't been a hard, a hard unification and unity and they
07:37need to decide among themselves who should they put forward. So I think on
07:40both sides, they may implicitly be ready to accept and Atal remaining in
07:47power for a couple more weeks, at least through those Olympics. Um, but
07:51with the expectation that once those Olympics are over, it's their turn. You
07:56come, you come to the left wing alliance, Mr President, you have no
07:59choice. Okay, stay with us, Doug. We're going to cross to a reporter, Peter
08:03O'Brien, who's at the Elysee Palace for us, Peter. Presumably you saw
08:06Gabrielle Atal and passed by in his car there on his way in to see the
08:11president. Yeah, that's absolutely right. Um, thankfully that large van
08:19has now disappeared. But just a few minutes ago, we saw Gabrielle Atal
08:24swoop in with his cortege into the Elysee just behind me. He's holding an
08:28absolutely critical meeting with Emmanuel Macron. As we speak, as we
08:33know, Atal announced his resignation that he'd hand in his resignation last
08:38night during his speech after the election results came in. And now
08:42we're about to find out whether Macron will do what we largely expect, which
08:47is, um, refuse this resignation and allow Atal to continue on in a kind
08:52of caretaker role while Parliament attempts at least to sort out some of
08:57its differences and bring a coalition that can put in place a government
09:01which won't immediately be subject to a vote of no confidence. Or if we're
09:07in store for another shock. There have been a lot of them in French
09:09politics in recent weeks. If he accepts his resignations, we're
09:13entering into even more unknown waters because there's no current
09:19candidate who's sticking out. And actually, the bloc in Parliament now
09:22with a relative majority have said this week they'll put forward a
09:27candidate. But so far, nothing from them. There is a little bit of a
09:30time pressure, if you like, as well, isn't there, Peter? Because
09:32Emmanuel Macron is due to leave in the morning for the NATO summit in the
09:36US. So to a certain extent, if there are going to be any big decisions
09:40this week, they've got to be made very quickly.
09:45Yeah, they needed to have already been made before this meeting. This
09:50is the point where Atal is meeting with Macron right now. And there
09:53needs to be a clear decision. And to be fair to Atal, he's followed
09:57procedure. This is what Elisabeth Borne did when last time when the
10:02presidential party did not manage to get an absolute majority in
10:08Parliament. She offered up her resignation, and the president
10:11refused. She then went on to govern for another year and a half until
10:15she was replaced by Atal in January. So we're now very much seeing a
10:20similar thing play out. Although, of course, the presidential party is
10:22now in second place, rather than first.
10:26We shall see how it plays out, as you say, Peter. Thanks very much,
10:28Peter O'Brien, a reporter joining us from the Elysee Palace. As I said
10:33that to Peter, Doug, Emmanuel Macron has got other pressing issues to
10:39deal with now, hasn't he? Literally, the timescale is incredibly tight.
10:43Yeah, it's tight. And you just mentioned that NATO meeting that Joe
10:45Biden's going to be hosting in Washington, about 30 leaders are
10:48going to be gathering there.
10:50Oh, we can see, just to interrupt you, we see Gérard Darmanin there,
10:52the Interior Minister.
10:53The Interior Minister making his way either to or fro, I can't tell,
10:57maybe in two. But no, the schedule is very tight. And, you know,
11:01stability. Look, France has been in such tumult, such turmoil over the
11:06past, you know, few weeks, since really June 9th, the evening of those
11:10European elections, the European Union elections, that I think that
11:15there's just everyone just wants a little bit of breathing space right
11:19now. Just, you know, a deep breath, breathe out. Just let us have a
11:24little bit of calm and serenity. And I think that probably, which is
11:29why it's more likely that he'll refuse a resignation, have a tall
11:32stay in place, so he can go off to the US and at least be there and
11:35present himself to the other leaders at NATO. As a French president,
11:39who has emerged from a legislative election that could have been a
11:42lot worse for him, could have been a total disaster. He managed to
11:46salvage something, even if he's a weakened president, he still has at
11:49least back home, a government that will be in place through the
11:52Olympics, he's probably going to try to reassure them, we have some
11:55time to work things out. You know, everything is not lost, it's a lot
11:59better, the outcome than we had expected. And then those leaders
12:02will be able to sort of also breathe a sigh of relief. So that that's
12:06just my take on it right now. But yeah, he's he's not going to want to
12:08leave France right now in turmoil, and then fly off to Washington with
12:12this big question mark with no Prime Minister, who do we have now
12:16governing France?
12:17And in turmoil, I mean, literally, it's two and a half weeks, isn't it
12:20till the Olympic Games kick off? I mean, it must make all of that an
12:23awful lot easier at this stage, the same people will probably be in
12:27place, assuming Gabrielle Tell does stay. It makes all of the
12:31organisation for that and just the general aura of that much, much
12:35calmer, doesn't it?
12:35Obviously, I mean, the outstanding question was, and like I said, the
12:38results of these elections, Stuart, as you know, took most people by
12:42surprise. This was not the expected outcome. And which is why that
12:46headline, as we were saying, in one of the French papers today,
12:49Libération was ouf, which can be sort of translated as phew, you know,
12:54what a relief. You know, regardless of where you stand, at least, you
12:58know, like, they feel like the the worst was was averted right here.
13:02But for the Olympics, yeah, I mean, the last thing when when Emmanuel
13:05Macron dissolved the parliament, there was a hue and cry among the
13:09Olympic organisers among the mayor of Paris and Hidalgo, you know, the
13:13worst possible timing. Yes, the President has the constitutional
13:17authority once a year, if he so wishes to dissolve the parliament,
13:21but this was not the time to do it. That was a sort of almost universal
13:24feeling here. So now the fact that the worst you can say, for many
13:29French has been averted, the worst being you don't have the far right
13:32imminently about to take the reins of power as the world as Paris steps
13:36up to the world stage and the world comes to Paris to participate in
13:39the biggest sporting events on the planet. At least you don't have the
13:42prospect of of the far right in power. So yeah, it's a relief in a
13:47sense. But like you can say, you know, Marine Le Ped, the the figurehead
13:52of the of the of the far right basically tweeted, you know, that the
13:55tide continues to ride to rise, our victory is merely postponed. So
14:00there is also a sense at the same time that yeah, after the Olympics,
14:04Macron's bought a little bit of time, France's perhaps bought a little
14:07bit of time, but the the far right is still very much they're not just
14:11waiting in the wings, it is it is in parliament with substantially more
14:16MPs, deputies than it had in this outgoing parliament from 88 to say,
14:20you know, some 100. What would you have the final number? I think 132?
14:24106? No, sorry. 143. 143. So I mean, that's it's not double, but it's
14:30nearly that it's it's a big rise in its numbers. So down, but not out.
14:34And but the Olympics will be getting underway before that parliament
14:39really take shape. And with the prospect, at least for now, that the
14:44far right is held in abeyance, if not for, you know, through the next
14:49election, at least for a year or so.
14:51You're not relief if you're a far right supporter. I mean, they would
14:53have been expecting to see Jordan Bardella going in there.
14:56Absolutely. I mean, a lot of the images we saw right were of the
14:59visible, very manifestly visible rallies, mainly in the big cities
15:03across France, most notably here in here in Paris, where you had, you
15:07know, smoke bombs and fireworks and and people honking horns in their
15:12cars and cheering and rallying and a lot of young people you noticed out
15:16on the streets. It was a very young demographic, you know, who tended to
15:21be supporters of this new popular front, the the the new the new left
15:25wing alliance. But you're right, we have less seen we didn't see the
15:31demonstrations of disappointment as much from supporters of the far
15:35right, because by definition, they weren't visible, at least in the
15:38initial hours after this vote out on the streets, manifesting and
15:43demonstrating their discontent and their disappointment. They took a
15:46lower profile. So yeah, from the images, all you really saw was the
15:51celebratory mood. But you're absolutely right to underscore that
15:55there are millions and millions of people in France who are deeply
15:58frustrated, deeply disappointed at this out outcome, Stuart, who see it
16:03as the the far right leaders, Jordan Bardella and Marine Le Pen have been
16:07saying, see it as them them being deprived of a voice, having
16:11essentially their votes stolen by by what they seen as a cynical tactical
16:16voting maneuver that has left a lot of French essentially disenfranchised
16:21French who really believed it was time for their movement, given the
16:25numbers that they want in the European elections and in the first round of
16:27these elections to step up to the plate, their argument would be that if
16:31in the absence of tactical voting, if France didn't have this unique
16:34system where you could withdraw candidates in three and four way races
16:38in order to show united fronts against against the far right, in the
16:42absence of that, they believe they would have been in power, probably
16:45with an absolute majority today. So they are frustrated, they're
16:48disappointed, and they're going to lay low, but they are not going away
16:51anytime soon.