This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Denise Wilton to discuss the films; Sophie's Choice, Everything Everywhere All At Once, Beautiful Boy, and Retreat.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris DC and each week I'll be joined by
00:18a guest from Kent to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life. Each
00:23guest will reflect on the films which have meant the most to them over the years. And
00:27every week there will be a Kent Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that
00:32has a connection to the county. And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week.
00:38She is a hat-trick of talents as an actor, writer and producer. She is Denise Wilton.
00:45Great to have you on the programme Denise. Thanks Chris. Good to be here. And you've
00:48gone for Sophie's Choice is your first film. Yes. Alan J. Pakula. That's it. Yeah. So
00:55this was what 1982 Meryl Streep won an Oscar for this film. Why have you chosen this? So
01:00I think it was one of those films that in my sort of late teens that I watched and it
01:06reignited my passion for acting. I think seeing Meryl Streep she was just so fantastic in
01:11it and obviously she won an award for her performance. But I think it just really hit
01:16me emotionally and at that time we didn't have Schindler's List or any of those big
01:21films. So I think a film that was sort of tackling the Holocaust and the reactions
01:26to that and impact really hit hard and I think emotionally it just connected with me at that
01:33time. Because I saw this actually maybe as much as a decade ago now but it made me go
01:38back to the source novel on which this was based because obviously for anyone who hasn't
01:42seen the film obviously it's a choice where she effectively is told to select which one
01:47of her children. But we don't find that out until much later on in the film and I think
01:51that was the surprise that you spend half of the film. It looks like we're looking at
01:56a love story between her and her partner Nathan and then we get all that way through and find
02:02out that she made this choice between her two children when she was in the concentration
02:07camp. And I think the story is then told isn't it from the point of view of the scar of course
02:13that inevitably unfolds because of the choice, the absurd choice.
02:18Yeah and actually that's what I thought when I first watched it but I re-watched it recently
02:23obviously I knew I was coming on here. And it was very different from my recollection
02:28of the film because it's from the viewpoint of Stingo who's a writer who's looking for
02:35material and Sophie becomes really his main source I think for the story. And it really
02:42is about how she's coped post the Holocaust and her relationship with this man Nathan
02:50who we find out much later on has got, he's schizophrenic. And so it's really to do with
02:57mental health I think for most of it and the story very gently unfolds as to what happened
03:03to her while she was in the concentration camp. And so my recollection was it was all
03:08about the Holocaust and this decision but it wasn't really. It was about how we respond
03:16as individuals to massive life events and obviously Nathan is the one who looks more
03:22unhinged through most of the film.
03:24So that's the Kevin Kline character is it from memory?
03:27That's right, yeah. So he on the surface is very charismatic and I think it has relevance
03:34to today because we talk about mental health, we talk about psychopaths and people that
03:39are incredibly charismatic and that's what we see. So the first half of the film is really
03:45us trying to understand who he is, how does he have such a control over her character
03:52and re-watching it I thought it's less about the Holocaust. I mean obviously how she's
03:58behaving and reacting has a bearing on her background but I think really it's about relationships
04:05and coercive control and that was really interesting for me to establish recently re-watching it.
04:13Because when the film was made in the early 80s a lot of the things that we've just been
04:17discussing were not really talked about, certainly weren't delineated in film. So actually to
04:23do that, so to have the mental illness even if it wasn't called that and to have the Holocaust
04:28motif it meant that this film was very brave, very audacious in its day.
04:32Yeah and I think it's still very relevant now, re-watching it I think it's a great film
04:38and obviously Meryl's acting is superb and I think the dynamics between the three characters
04:44they have this very strange, it's almost a menage a trois where you've got the young
04:49naive writer and then you've got Kevin Kline's character as I say, he's very charismatic
04:54and the vibrancy of them as a trio and obviously her struggle to really love her life and work
05:05through the guilt that she's inevitably feeling after making this huge decision.
05:11And when you first saw this film were you aware of all these different threads, so was
05:14it that the film made you then look a bit fuller, it kick-started a conversation?
05:18Yeah I responded emotionally so I remember it was the first film that really hit me where
05:23I cried and felt for Sophie. Ironically watching it back now I feel less for her and more for
05:31the children and I think in a way they've sort of skimmed that storyline, it felt actually
05:39far less deep than it was when I first watched it so I think the impact on me then was the
05:43Holocaust and the travesty of people being put in these situations where they're watching
05:48others die and that they have a choice in who dies as well so she has to choose between
05:54her two children, one that's going to go straight to their death and one that potentially could
05:59be saved and the horror of that is incomprehensible really and I think as a young lady it felt
06:07enormous back then that, but now I'm looking at it as a much older woman and the dynamics
06:12between the relationships was of more interest to me being an older viewer.
06:17Well it's time now to move on to your second chosen film and this is the first time anyone
06:23has gone for Everything, Everywhere, All at Once but it's often the film that people will
06:28say since it came out a couple of years ago that it is their favourite film.
06:33Yeah, so I think out of the four that I've chosen this is probably the most out there
06:39current and the reason I chose it was because it works on so many different levels and obviously
06:46it's multi-colour, we've got so much action in it, it's fast paced, I think it really
06:51represents our society as we are now. I think it was based on the swipe culture on social
06:57media, so the way that it was designed to be filmed was one minute you're looking at
07:02a cute kitten and the next you're sort of watching people fighting and so I think it
07:08encapsulates the world that we're living in at the moment very well but also touching
07:14on the darker facets that we have in life, especially being sort of like an older female
07:21lead about what we're doing with our lives, what's the meaning and I think it resonated
07:26for me because I could understand Michelle Yeoh's character, one minute she's working
07:33in the laundry but really her aspirations are to be somewhere else and the challenges
07:37with the daughter and the husband, who she'd like him to be as to who he really is and
07:45I think the characters were just so larger than life, a really, really vibrant, fast
07:52paced and really entertaining film, I loved it.
07:55And they all get to play in that sense different roles, there's a bit of it, on a previous
07:59episode someone chose Walter Mitty and there's a bit of that because they get to inhabit
08:03these different roles and the film goes back to the beginning of time I think it does at
08:07one point and it's literally trying to play with the whole space time continuum but grounding
08:12it in a very specific milieu and in terms of questions around nationality and ethnicity,
08:19it's very bespoke, there's nothing else quite like it.
08:22No I agree, although I've read reviews where people have said that they think it's too
08:27disparate and it doesn't work on that basis and that they think because people are, the
08:32actors are flickering between different characters, that they're not one character going through
08:36and I completely disagree, as an actor I've watched it and I know that they would have
08:40spent a lot of time about thinking about who they are in the current present time within
08:45the film and that continues all the way through, so yeah I completely agree.
08:49Yeah and of course Jamie Lee Curtis won an Oscar and Michelle Yeoh won an Oscar for this.
08:53Oh she's fantastic.
08:54Yeah and but it felt, I can imagine that when they chose the project they probably thought
08:59what is this because I saw this, it was an unlimited screening, I saw it in Dover and
09:04it was before it was officially released so I knew nothing about it and I think I came
09:09away thinking I know nothing about it because I have to watch it again.
09:13And I think, I mean I've watched it a few times and I still, I know there's more stuff
09:16that I would see in it watching it and that's rare isn't it, to have a film that you can
09:21keep watching and get different comprehensions from it.
09:25Yeah and the second time I saw it was with probably quite more of a, I get the sense
09:29of student audience and they loved it but it was also one of those films that I thought
09:32I, because I write reviews of films that I watch them but this is one of those that I
09:36had to read lots of other reviews in order to sort of get some sort of footing but that's
09:40a good thing because it means that you can intersect with it at different times, different
09:43places, different stages of your life.
09:45Yeah that's true and I mean I watched it with my daughter who's sort of like early 20s and
09:50she loved it and I think that's it, it does work on different levels, even sort of men
09:54watching it can identify with the male characters, they've got so many rich storylines going
09:59through it and obviously the action and the fighting and I mean the strangeness of having
10:05sausage fingers, I mean it's just, it's almost like someone's just thrown as many ideas out
10:10onto a wall and put that into a film, it's great.
10:13Yeah and wonderful because it won the Oscar and of course Parasite a couple of years before,
10:18it was just that real sense that Hollywood was doing something quite brave and actually
10:22giving its top awards to films that perhaps would always have been a bit more marginal.
10:27Yeah and I actually think, I mean some of the comments that people had were that you
10:31know it worked on a surface level and I'm very much drawn as you'll see what I'm one
10:35for choices to really strong dialogue films so I think the fact that I enjoyed it means
10:41that it does work at deeper levels, it's not just superficial.
10:45It's funny what you said about the swipe culture and the way that you can go from like a kitten
10:49to a fight scene but in a way the film has all of that and also it encapsulates something.
10:53I think particularly maybe a younger audience in that sense might get more out of it precisely
10:58because there is that sense that it's the way that we live in a world now where literally
11:02anything and everything is thrown at us.
11:04That's right, I think they're more accepting of that aren't they?
11:06It was really my daughter that said but that's what it is and I was like ah okay, that makes
11:10sense.
11:11The days of having just a few TV channels and so on, you know in a way this film is
11:15very much, there's a real zeitgeist isn't there to it in that sense, it couldn't have
11:19been made, there's no way a film like this could have been made 30 years ago.
11:22Yeah I don't know how you could watch two rocks talking in a desert and be emotionally
11:28moved by it, I mean I think that's quite telling really.
11:31Well that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show, however before
11:35we go to the break we have a Kent film trivia question for you at home.
11:40What part of Kent, other than Thanet, was used for filming Empire of Light?
11:45Was it A. Deal, B. Maidstone or C. Dover?
11:51We'll reveal the answer right after this break, don't go away.
12:06Hello and welcome back to Kent Film Club.
12:08Just before the ad break we asked you at home a Kent film trivia question.
12:14What part of Kent, other than Thanet, was used for filming Empire of Light?
12:18I asked was it A. Deal, B. Maidstone or C. Dover?
12:22And now I can reveal to you that the answer was in fact B. Maidstone.
12:26Cobtree Manor Park was used for filming as one of the parks within the film.
12:32Did you get the answer right?
12:34Well it is time now to move Denise onto your next chosen film and you've gone for Beautiful
12:41Boy.
12:42I saw this at the cinema around 2018, would that be right?
12:46Did you?
12:47Yeah that is when it came out.
12:48I mean I've not had the joy of watching it at the cinema but I've seen it a couple of
12:51times on TV and it's a lovely film.
12:56I mean as an actor I'm very drawn to performances but it's beautiful dialogue and I think the
13:02relationships between obviously Nick and David are just so tortured but filled with
13:09the joy of watching him growing up but also seeing where everything came undone.
13:17Yeah I love it, it's such a powerful movie.
13:20And as I recall it deals very much with those themes around, well obviously a relation between
13:24a father and a son but issues around addiction.
13:26It's Timothee Chalamet isn't it?
13:27It is yeah, it's Timothee Chalamet and Steve?
13:31Oh Steve Carell.
13:32Steve Carell and so yeah it's about Nick basically being this ideal student, you know
13:40the perfect son and his father finds out that he's an addict and his world falls apart and
13:49the father is desperately trying to hold onto his son, to give him hope, to encourage him
13:56and I think the travesty of it is that for the reasons that Nick has chosen he's not
14:02felt able to be happy in his life.
14:06He talks about this one moment that, I can't remember which drug that he took, but he says
14:12like basically his brain just lit up and he's never felt the same, he's been chasing that.
14:18So I think watching the film we're understanding more about the father who has done everything
14:24right, continues to do everything right and still can't make it right and I think that's
14:30so sad.
14:31There'll be a lot of people watching it that will resonate with that, with their own children
14:36that they try to be a guiding light for them and struggle even, they make their own choices
14:44at the end of the day.
14:45And a more recent film The Son from the director of The Father with Hugh Jackman, a similar
14:51sort of dynamic, that you want the best for your children but you can't make their life
14:57go the way that you necessarily want it to.
14:58That's it.
14:59I think it's about allowing them to make, and in this case it's huge, huge ramifications.
15:08I won't give the ending away in case people haven't watched it but the father in the end
15:13has to just wash his hands of his son and allow him to make his own choices and that
15:20really tugs at the heart strings.
15:22I think watching it, it is amazing dialogue and as I say the way that it's shot, we see
15:28the flashbacks to the father and son's relationship and it being so perfect through most of the
15:33life and I think it just really made, it was an emotional reaction that I had to that.
15:39Yeah, because it's a really hard one, particularly if you've got children as I do in school and
15:43you're always aware, particularly other parents sometimes who say, this is what you must do,
15:47you must do this language of this subject, you must go in this direction, that.
15:50And sometimes of course it can be a good thing but sometimes it can do the opposite way and
15:55I think it's that knowing when to hold back, it can be as important as trying to provide
15:59a steer.
16:00Yeah, well I think it's a theme through most of these films that I've chosen, it's about
16:04love and relationships and I think no matter what's happening in your life, you could be
16:08earning lots of money but ultimately it's those relationships that keep you going that
16:15you concentrate on through most of your life and I think as a parent, you only want your
16:19children to do what's right for them and I think to watch someone just falling apart
16:26in front of your eyes must be devastating.
16:29Yeah, and also particularly as a parent as well I suppose because some people will watch
16:33this from the point of view of the boy, some people from the parent or maybe both, or different
16:36stages you can identify with because people are often on a trajectory and of course when
16:41it comes to issues around addiction as well, there can be highs, there can be lows, there
16:45can be periods when things seem more stable and there can be regression.
16:49But in that sense, do you feel that this is the film that you can identify with more than
16:52one character and at different stages you can get something different out of it?
16:55I think so, yeah, because ultimately you could look at the character of the son, Nick, and
17:03say that he's been completely selfish but I think trying to understand why people make
17:07these decisions and really I think life is about understanding the differences between
17:12us all and often we apply how we think to how other people should react in situations
17:18and I think this film is a good insight for you to think about why people make really
17:25bad choices for themselves.
17:30And did that have the impact on you the first time that you saw it?
17:33Oh yeah, I was in floods of tears and having re-watched it recently, it's the same and
17:40I think initially I really felt for the son, I really felt for, you know, what a travesty
17:44that he's sort of throwing his life away.
17:47Second time that I watched it, I really felt for the father and I wanted to be there saying
17:53come on, you're doing as much as you can, give yourself a break and it's nice to have
17:59that reaction in a film.
18:00Yeah, thank you Denise.
18:01Well it's time now to move on to your final chosen film and you've gone for Retreat and
18:10I see Denise Wilson in here, this is a new film am I right?
18:14It is, yeah, so Retreat is my first feature film that I did and I have the lead in it
18:23and we very luckily premiered in San Jose in LA this year with Retreat, so we were at
18:30the Cinequest Film Festival but Retreat was written by Christopher Newbery who runs Walwood
18:38Films which is based in Kent and we filmed most of it in Kent as well, so a lot of it
18:44is we filmed at Folkestone Grand Hotel, Mid Kent College, we filmed in pubs, we filmed
18:53driving on the road, so it was a really, really interesting film and very close to my heart.
18:58Well I'm starstruck sitting here, huge congratulations because it's not every day that somebody talking
19:03about the film will talk about a film that not just that they're in but also recently
19:05made and you cannot be found until you are lost, tell me about the premise of the film.
19:11So it's about a mother and son, so obviously we can see the son Jamie there played by Harry
19:17Waters and so they're sort of a tortured relationship, the father died four years ago and the mother
19:29Jane has never really sort of recovered from that so she decides that she's going to take
19:34her son to a retreat and he doesn't want to go, we never find out on film but this
19:41was the story in the script, she actually kidnaps him but you don't know that from the
19:47film so it's a bit of a mixture of a road trip, it opens where there's the death of
19:53a young girl in a park so her murder has taken place at the beginning and then there's sort
20:00of like mystery so basically Jane is as I say a tortured soul, she's got a lot of things
20:07that she's trying to overcome and she's looking up to this social media guru Candy Spouse
20:15that's played by Veronica Caddick and the retreat is basically run by her so there was
20:23a few things that happen along the way, there are a few sort of dances in romance so Jamie
20:29meets a young girl at the retreat and it's sort of like an element of a dark love story
20:38mixed with, so I think it's dark comedy thriller is what it was built at for Cinequest and
20:45once again it's sort of looking at the nature of social media, the impact that that has
20:50on us in society, as an older woman I was very lucky to have this role written for me
20:55by Chris and he really wanted to challenge me which it certainly did so I did some crazy things.
21:01Well I mean actually so I was going to ask you that question as to how you, what made
21:07you choose the film but actually to have it written for you so when you were doing this
21:10did you kind of feel that you, did that make it easier for you to inhabit the role?
21:16Yes and no because he'd written a character that wasn't me that he just really wanted
21:23to push me so a lot of the stuff that happened with my character are spoilers for the film
21:30so I have to be careful what I say but he had me dancing, acting like a cat so there
21:40were some things that really just weren't comfortable for me so it wasn't very linear
21:47so we didn't really have scenes where you know it would chop and change very quickly
21:51which as an actor made it quite difficult for me to just go into a scene and be emotionally
21:57in a place that had not led into it with previous scenes so that did make it challenging and
22:05I think he wanted to do that so he wanted me to have something that I could sort of
22:09showcase my talents.
22:12Absolutely well I'm sure that anyone watching this or everyone watching this will want to
22:16know when it's coming out and will we get a chance to watch it in Kent?
22:19So we're hoping that it will be on the streaming sites by the end of this year we've got discussions
22:24with distributors at the moment following being out in America so fingers crossed it
22:30will be available for people to see.
22:32The trailer is on, if they look up Denise Wilton IMDB then you'll find it on there or
22:40if you look up Retreat you'll find Wildwood Films it'll be on there as well but yeah it's
22:47a crazy film.
22:49And if you had to sum it up because you already have done that but in terms of genre how would
22:56you categorise Retreat?
22:58I would say it's a dark comedy thriller so Chris is very stylistic so the way that it's
23:13filmed you know we've got sort of Hitchcock vibes with birds and bees and that's all interspersed
23:20so we've got animals being filmed in amongst everything that we're doing but we're quite
23:24animalistic in some of our scenes as well so it's a film that you either love or hate
23:30and that's what Chris wanted to do.
23:31Well can't wait.
23:32Well I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:35Many thanks to Denise Wilton for joining us and being such a brilliant guest and many
23:39thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:41Be sure to come back and join us again at the same time next week.
23:45Until then that's all from us.
23:47Goodbye.