This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Rhodri Andrews to discuss the films; 500 Days of Summer, Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, Star Wars: The Last Jedi, and It's a Wonderful Life.
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00:00Hello, and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris Deasey, and each week I'll be joined
00:18by a guest from Kent to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life.
00:23Each guest will reflect on the films which have meant the most to them over the years.
00:27And every week there will be a Kent Film Trivia, where we quiz you at home about a
00:31film that has a connection to the county.
00:34And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week. He is typically behind the scenes
00:38as KMTV's graphic designer and animator. He is Rodri Andrews. Great to have you on the
00:45show Rodri.
00:46Thank you for having me.
00:47And now you've chosen, and I saw this at the Gulbenkian Cinema in Canterbury, 500 Days
00:53of Summer.
00:54Yes, so it's sort of a twist on the classic rom-com. It's from the start, it's not a spoiler
01:01to say this is a relationship that doesn't work out. It's Tom and Summer, and Tom's a
01:08sort of late 20s, he's sort of in a job that he doesn't really love. It's not really what
01:14he wants to do, he wants to be an architect, but he's writing greeting cards. And he's
01:18sort of stuck in his ways a little bit. And Summer comes along, and he sees her as this
01:25sort of gateway to a better life. He is obsessed with true love, and he thinks that she's going
01:30to save him from this life. Whereas Summer, she doesn't believe in love. She's the complete
01:37opposite. And this film is told in a non-linear way. So right from the start, you know that
01:44they're going to break up, but you don't really know the ins and the outs of how that
01:48comes to be. But what the film's really about is sort of differing expectations, and not
01:55really appreciating the other people. And it's sort of about, it's sort of a complex
02:01look into relationships that you don't really get in the traditional rom-com. It sort of,
02:09it flips it on its head. And instead of having this person be everything you ever wanted,
02:15it's more about, it sort of flips that traditional Hollywood, love is the be-all and end-all.
02:26And instead looks into how that actual idea can be damaging, because Tom puts Summer up
02:32on this pedestal, when really she from the start tells him, I don't believe in love,
02:37I'm not really looking for a relationship, but he's got this in his head that she's going
02:42to be the thing.
02:43And of course it's really clever, because of course, I thought 500 Days of Summer, how
02:47can that be? Because it's her name, of course. So nicely wrong footage from the beginning
02:51as to what Summer means. And I suppose it could be the metaphor of Summer, rather than
02:54just that it's literally her name as well. And there is a connection with Barbie, isn't
02:59there as well, in terms of the director, in terms of the actress here?
03:03Possibly. I'm not sure. Yeah, but it's Joey Deschanel.
03:10Joey Deschanel, okay. Now, tell me about this film, in terms of when you first saw it, I
03:17don't know if you've seen it multiple times, and whether you get something different from
03:21it each time.
03:22I definitely do. I think I must have first watched it when I was in college, maybe. But
03:29it's sort of, each time I watch it I'm sort of in a different place in my life, and it
03:32makes me think of relationships that I've had, both romantic and platonic, where you
03:37sort of, you have an idea of someone, rather than knowing that person. And as you grow
03:42up you realise that people are much more complicated than you sort of expect, and you've got to
03:51see people as complex things. They're not, Summer is, at the start of the film, she's
03:58this perfect ideal, and people aren't like that. People aren't perfect. You've got to
04:04take people for as they are, and listen to people. I also think it's really interesting,
04:10people sort of take away different perspectives from this film, and I sort of see both sides
04:14the more I watch it, because a lot of people, they'll take Tom's side, and they say, well
04:19all he was looking for was love, and Summer's led him along, and done all these sorts of
04:24things. But then others would say, Summer from the start is going, no, I don't want
04:29a relationship, and it's Tom building up this idea in his head. And so different people
04:34take different things, and I think what's interesting is that it isn't about those two
04:40different sides, they both did the supposed wrongs, but it's not about that, it's about
04:47the complexities of relationships, and there isn't a winner and a loser, there isn't a
04:53hero and a villain, people are complicated, and relationships are complicated.
04:57And you've just given me a reason why I should watch this again, because I think you're right
05:00that, I mean I keep a diary, but there's always that sense sometimes that we project things
05:05onto somebody that says more about ourselves than about the other person, and what happens
05:08when that ideal falls short. Or maybe it can also be a blessing in some ways, because it
05:12almost frees us from imagining that that person has to represent that thing all their life
05:17in the same way, because we change.
05:20Yeah, I think the subplot as well is Tom's career, and I think it shows that you can
05:29get satisfaction in life through multiple means, it's not like the rom-com where it's
05:33like you find the one, and that's your life sorted. It's not just that people have different
05:40goals and expectations in life, and ways of having a satisfactory life, and so Tom's sort
05:49of, by going through this relationship that doesn't end, he sort of grows as a person
05:57and finds success in his career that he potentially might not have had if he didn't have that
06:03push because of this relationship going poorly, but it's given him this new lease on life
06:10that he might not have had otherwise.
06:12Well it is time now to move on to your second chosen film, Rodri, and you've gone for Across
06:18the Spider-Verse.
06:19Yes, so I thought I had to include at least one animated film, because it's a good part
06:26of what I do. Obviously what I do is nothing close to this, but I think one day that's
06:32the kind of thing I would love to do.
06:34And it's worth saying for anyone watching this, of course your name appears at the end
06:38of our programme, because you are responsible for our logos. So this is the inspiration,
06:45this is the goal.
06:47It really is. It's ignoring the story of the film itself as like a technical achievement.
06:55It's just mind-bending, the amount of hours and work and people that have put their soul
07:01into this is incredible, and it works so well because every single shot in the film is just
07:07stunning. It's sort of done in a 2.5D, is what they often say, where it's a 3D animated
07:14film, but it's mixed media. And so you have 2D elements and 3D elements combined, and
07:19it creates this unique style that's sort of been replicated a little bit now with, there
07:23was a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film that sort of copied the style, as well as a Puss
07:27in Boots one. But this is the second film of the trilogy, with the third one still to
07:32come out. But the first film sort of, at the time, was so different to anything else that
07:37ever come before it. This one, one of the characters, Spider-Punk, who, he's a punk,
07:42so he's breaking the rules, and the way they've done him is to break the rules of animation.
07:46So a normal film is 24 frames per second, and you have this term in animation, you might
07:53say this character is on twos, or it's on threes, and that means there's a new image
08:00every two frames, or if it's on threes, there's a new image every three frames. And you might
08:06often have the background might be on twos, and a character might be on threes or on fours,
08:11depending on the motion that they're going through. But this character, each element
08:15of him, is on different animation speeds. So I think it's something like his body is
08:20on threes, so there's a new image every three frames. His outfit is on fours, so it's moving
08:26at a different speed. And then he has an outline around him as well, which is on twos, so it
08:30just creates this disjointed look, but it serves the character so well, and it just
08:36makes it so visually impressive.
08:38Now I saw this on a very huge screen. I saw it just before my 50th birthday, actually.
08:45And I'll be honest, I found that there was so much going on, I think my head was pounding,
08:49and I had a big flight to catch afterwards. But you've now explained to me why my head
08:53was pounding. So there were all these things going on. I'm sure that it was also showing
08:58in a 3D version as well, which would probably make it even more complicated.
09:02Yeah. What was really interesting as well is on Twitter, around the time I kept getting
09:08all these tweets about the film, and it was a lot of the animators, because there were
09:13all across the world, there were animators working on this film because it was so intensive.
09:18But there's a scene in it where it's all done in Lego, and actually that scene was a 14-year-old
09:23kid who just made YouTube videos. And I think it was Lord and Miller who were executive
09:30producers on this, and they found his YouTube videos and were like, hey, do you want to
09:33come and animate something for the scene? So it was him, this 14-year-old kid that just
09:37had a YouTube channel making Lego Spider-Man animations, that he's done this whole segment
09:41in the film. And I think that sort of approach to animation, where it's about the craft as
09:47much as it is the storytelling, I think, and the people that make it, I think that's what
09:52makes it such a unique film. I really had a tough time picking between this film and
09:58Nightmare Before Christmas, because it's another great animated film. But I think that's
10:04a very traditional stop-motion style film, whereas this sort of, it brings all sorts
10:11of animation styles into one, and I think it's almost like a beautiful ode to animation
10:18itself, because it's taking years and years of history and filmmaking and just mashing
10:26it all together into this really, really beautiful film.
10:29And you wish that could be you. I mean, in a way it is you already, because you are animating,
10:32maybe not on the Spider-Man universe, but is that, as you're watching that, it's clearly
10:38the technical work that's gone into that that is, well, the reason why you picked it.
10:43Yeah, well, I got into journalism initially because I just love storytelling, and I don't
10:50think I'm necessarily, narratively, I'm not creative enough to make my own storylines,
10:56which is possibly what I might have wanted to do otherwise. But my passion is just telling
11:00stories in the most visually satisfying way, and I think whilst this is a very different
11:05genre, that's the kind of thing I would love to do. It's telling stories, but it's just
11:10a whole other level of complexity, which I just think, it adds another level of meaning
11:14as well, when you know how much time has gone into like a two-second shot.
11:18Often I'm doing very basic animations for my work compared to this, but I can have a
11:23very productive day and only maybe do four or five seconds of work, and a whole film
11:28like this, it's just mind-blowing how much work has gone into this.
11:31Well, that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show. However, before
11:35we go to the break, we have a Kent film trivia question for you at home. In which movie was
11:42a Kent road filmed to look like a different country? Was it A, Dunkirk, B, Johnny English
11:48Reborn, or C, Mr Bean's Holiday? We'll reveal the answer right after this break. Don't go away.
12:06Hello and welcome back to Kent Film Club. Just before that ad break, we asked you at
12:10home a Kent film trivia question. In which movie was a Kent road filmed to look like
12:16a different country? I asked, was it A, Dunkirk, B, Johnny English Reborn, or C, Mr Bean's
12:23Holiday? Now I can reveal to you that the answer was, in fact, B, Johnny English Reborn.
12:29The A299 dual carriageway near Whitstable was shot to look like a road in France.
12:35Did you get the answer right? Well, it is time now, Rodri, to move on to your next chosen
12:40film, and you've gone for Star Wars, The Last Jedi. Yes, so Star Wars is a massive part of my
12:51life. It was my childhood. My dad had the originals on VHS tape, and then I got the prequels for a
12:59birthday present one year on DVD. And so when they announced that they were doing a whole
13:04new set of films, now with Disney, that was so exciting for me. And the first one in that
13:12trilogy was directed by J.J. Abrams. I thought it was good, but it was sort of similar to the very
13:17first film. It's kind of the same basic plot, but it set up a lot of plot points for then
13:25Rian Johnson to take over in this film. And now this film is a very controversial film,
13:30because a lot of people don't like what Rian Johnson did with it, but I think it's so much
13:36more interesting than what it could be, because he obviously directed Neither South, and that's
13:44a murder mystery full of twists and that sort of thing. And it's exactly the same in this film,
13:49where they send you thinking it's going to go one way, and then it doesn't. And I think it's
13:55just such a more interesting take on the Star Wars universe than any of the other more recent
14:01films. There's sort of an element that I think you would be interested in how it was received,
14:08because there's a nostalgia element. And I think that's what made me love the film so much, but a
14:14lot of other people hated it, because the way they've handled Luke Skywalker, he's not the
14:20Luke Skywalker that we've seen in the films before, where he's this ultra-powerful superhero
14:26by the end of the sixth film. He's broken, he's failed, and he's gone off to this island to be
14:33a recluse. And people don't like that, because they want to think that Luke Skywalker's this
14:38hero from their childhood, and they can't imagine seeing him just this grumpy old man who's sort of
14:45given up on everything. I think that's far more interesting than the other way around, because
14:51that's the story, that's what's really interesting.
14:54And I felt that even with the most recent James Bond film, because it did take certain liberties,
14:59but it was all the more interesting for that, because it made you reflect, and it was very
15:03sort of meta as well, it sort of made you reflect on the whole Bond world. And I think the thing
15:08with Star Wars here, because I have seen this, and I saw it at the cinema, and I'm not necessarily
15:13the world's greatest Star Wars fan, but I could see that it was trying to do something that some
15:18of the other films hadn't done. In other words, it took it to a different level.
15:21Yeah. I thought part of the problem with this trilogy as a whole, maybe, is that they didn't
15:26have a plan. So J.J. Abrams set up these plot points, Rian Johnson went, hang on, no, I'm going
15:33to do something different. And then it went back to J.J. Abrams. So I'm not a massive fan of the
15:37last film, because I think it would have been better sticking with Rian Johnson. But I just
15:44think this film, even on its own, is so interesting in itself. A major theme of the
15:53film is failure. And I think that's so interesting. A lot of people didn't like the subplot where
15:59they go to the casino planet to search for a hacker or a codebreaker, I think, something like
16:04that, because it doesn't really lead anywhere. They don't actually succeed with their plan in
16:10the end. But again, I think that's so interesting, because a character doesn't have to succeed just
16:16because they've gone off and failed. And it doesn't really impact the story. That doesn't
16:21necessarily mean that it doesn't impact the story, because it's impacting the characters
16:26and it's developing the characters, which I think is more interesting, again, than having these
16:32superheroes that can't be defeated and all of that.
16:36Because I'm guessing that Rian Johnson, in that sense, may have had a very distinct
16:41vision. But did he have the last word on this? You mentioned that J.J. Abrams may
16:47have wanted it to move in a different direction. But were there compromises that had to be made?
16:53I imagine Disney probably did have quite a few things to say. But as far as I know, I think he
17:01did get away with quite a lot. And he even had pushback from Mark Hamill, who plays Luke
17:08Skywalker. Initially, he was not very happy with the way the character was either. And he was
17:13very open with Rian Johnson. It's like, no, I don't think this is how the character would act.
17:19But Rian talked with him and sort of persuaded him into his line of thinking. And I thought that
17:25was interesting, seeing the behind-the-scenes kind of thing.
17:29And were the critics, you have to remind me, and the audience is sort of more divided on
17:35this than the others. You hinted at that a few moments ago.
17:37So the critics, they loved it. It's something like 90-something percent on Rotten Tomatoes.
17:43But it was more the fans that were very divided. I think it was possibly sort of the political
17:50context as well, because I remember hearing the term social justice warrior a lot in terms of the
17:59discourse around this film. Because, yeah, it's not afraid to take on social issues either.
18:09Particularly, there's a storyline with Oscar Isaac's character, where he's sort of this
18:15egotistical pilot. And he puts people in danger because he's so egotistical. And he can't expand
18:27his mind beyond what he can see. And then Princess Leia's character goes, no, you can't do that.
18:36And I think it's Laura Dern plays Admiral Holdo, who comes in and doesn't tell Oscar Isaac's
18:44character anything, because she wants to teach him a lesson. And people took that to be an attack
18:49on masculinity, when it's not. It's an attack on toxic masculinity. But because of the political
18:55context, I think that wasn't construed very well by the Star Wars fans, who often, they're very
19:01passionate, but yeah, they struggle with certain issues sometimes.
19:06Well, it is time now, Rodri, to move on to your final chosen film. And you've gone for
19:11a seasonal favourite, It's a Wonderful Life.
19:14Yes. So, like we were saying, with 500 Days of Summer, this is one where really,
19:20as I watch it again and again, I sort of take little bits from it differently.
19:25So it's a story of George Bailey going through his life, and then stuff happens, and he ends up
19:33on a bridge at night, and an angel comes down to save him. And I just think,
19:40I think it came out in 1943 or something like that.
19:421946, yeah, yeah.
19:43But I just think it holds up so well, because the themes behind it and the emotions,
19:53the heart is still there, no matter when you're watching it. The core of that film is George
20:00Bailey and the love that the people around him have. And I think it's so interesting.
20:07It sort of reminded, I watched this in the cinema on Monday, just gone, and it's oddly
20:13reminded me of another film I watched recently, which did make me cry, which was A Man Called
20:18Otto, with Tom Hanks. And it sort of just made me think about what does it mean to be a good
20:25person? What does it mean to be a good man? And I think it just touches you.
20:34And you mentioned having just seen it. In all the trailers for Christmas 2024,
20:38it says, what would you do or what would happen if you didn't exist? In other words,
20:44even if you'd made small changes to somebody's life, well, that's better than if you hadn't
20:49been here at all. And I think, and you mentioned A Man Called Otto, that's another good example of
20:53someone who perhaps, in that case, he's a bit of a grouch. He's not very pleasant. But actually,
21:01there's something underneath that. And it's a wonderful life. It's like he's a good, decent
21:05person, but he doesn't think anybody can really see any worth. He's not sure. He's not convinced
21:11that he has any worth. And it takes an angel to show it to him. But there's something encapsulated
21:15in there about what it means to be human. Yeah, I think there's a lot about sacrifice as well,
21:21because George wants to go out to see the world. He wants to explore. He wants to go to South
21:25America and work as an engineer and things like that. He wants to go on to college. But for various
21:30reasons, that doesn't happen. And he's stuck at home and he's stuck doing what he thinks is his
21:35duty. But I think it's a film about, again, finding worth in your life and figuring out
21:44what are your values and where do you place them? Because there's that issue around Potter and the
21:50money. And actually, that's one. I don't know if it was ever meant to be resolved. But Potter doesn't
21:55get his comeuppance. But you've got this battle of the world. There's a very David and Goliath
22:01element to it, isn't there, in terms of the way you've got the good, decent. He runs a small bank,
22:06George Bailey. And then you've got Potter, who effectively manipulates and tries to make it look
22:12like he stole the money that he didn't. And then the whole community comes to him. But I guess this
22:17was made as well just towards the end of the Second World War. There's something in here about
22:21you mentioned sacrifice, the human spirit, but also the alternative world. I don't know if you want to
22:27say anything about Pottersville. Yeah, I think it's interesting that, yeah, he doesn't get his
22:34comeuppance in the end. But I think it's more interesting that way because after seeing
22:39Pottersville and how bad it is without George Bailey in the world, he realises Potter doesn't
22:50matter. Potter actually doesn't matter. It's George Bailey and the impact he can have on the world.
22:57That's what matters. And it doesn't matter if the evil people, sometimes they get their way a little
23:03bit. It's what can you as an individual do for the people around you, the community around you,
23:09to make their lives better? And how, basically, how do you spread love in a world that is so
23:16full of hate? How do you combat that? And the answer to that really is just look after the
23:23people around you. Brilliant. Well, I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today. But before
23:28we go, if you live in Kent and want the chance to share four films of your choice, reach out to us
23:34at KMTV and you might be invited in to be my next guest. But for now, many thanks to Roderick Andrews
23:40for joining us and being such a brilliant guest. And many thanks to you all for tuning in. Until
23:45next time, that's all from us. Goodbye.
23:58Transcribed by https://otter.ai