This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Max Barrett to discuss the films; Hero, The Fountain, The Place Beyond The Pines, and Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio.
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00:00Hello, and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris Deasy, and each week I'll be joined
00:18by a guest from Kent to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life.
00:24Each guest will reflect on the films which have meant the most to them over the years.
00:28And every week there will be a Kent Film Trivia, where we quiz you at home about a
00:31film that has a connection to the county.
00:35And now, let me introduce you to my guest for this week. By day, he is a sales and marketing
00:40manager. By night, he is a filmmaker. He is Max Barrett.
00:45Welcome Max.
00:46Hi Chris, what a wonderful intro. Thank you for having me.
00:48Great to have you on the show. Well, I can't wait to find out what you've chosen. And
00:52your first film is Hero.
00:54Yes, so this film has a personal connection to me, taking me right back to an early day
01:00of my filmmaking journey around university and college. We saw a clip of a key action
01:06scene at the start of the movie within college, and it really captivated me because choreography
01:13was a key interest of mine due to growing up watching Star Wars, so that kind of combat
01:18was a huge thing for me. And Hero, the way it does it through the colour schemes, through
01:23the long wide shots, it just caught me straight away through that one scene. I went away
01:28and watched the movie, and I realised that that wasn't just a singular brilliant moment
01:33within the film. There are mini vignettes set against different colour palettes the
01:37whole way through. There's a more blue, colder themed segment, a yellowy, more summery
01:44version, and then the one that we saw in class, which was black and white themed. And the
01:49way that the film uses colour, choreography and action to tell stories of emotion was
01:56the key reason I had to start with it today.
01:57Yeah, and also when you sometimes see a film in say an educational context, I suppose it's
02:03the equivalent of when somebody is learning Shakespeare at school, that sometimes you're
02:07either going to love it or you have to find your own way through it sometimes. But in
02:11this case, obviously it impacted on you, and I'm guessing it's a film that you've returned
02:15to time and time again.
02:16Many, many times, yeah. And part of why I chose it is I only recently rewatched it a
02:20week or two ago. It's one of those films that I love showing to people who enjoy action
02:25movies because the thing that separates this is it has that eye candy level, but then it
02:32has the subtext underneath that it uses purely through visuals. The language, it's not an
02:39English language movie, but when I watch it I almost feel like I wouldn't even need subtitles
02:44to understand what the characters are feeling because it is so visual. And in that way,
02:49I would almost describe it as a little bit like theatre with lots of broad strokes and
02:53motions to help articulate that. And as I said, it has very wide, broad shots which
02:59allow the choreography to breathe. I understand that within the action movie genre, the shaky
03:04cam style can be really important and impactful, but for this, seeing the long, wide shots
03:10really helped showcase almost how it was more like a dance than an action movie.
03:15Because there's always that thing about remakes, isn't there? When a film from a different
03:20language is translated, inverted commas, into an English language medium. But it sounds
03:26from what you were saying that actually this is... There is a completely different film
03:29called Hero, at least it was called Hero in America, Accidental Hero, different genre
03:32completely from the early 90s, Dustin Hoffman, Geena Davis. But this is an action film. Is
03:37this the sort of film that you think is the template for how a film should be done? And
03:42then, as you say, irrespective of the language in which it is made?
03:46I don't know if it's the template. I think it sits in a quite unique space where the
03:50way it tells the story serves this film and its style because it links calligraphy, dance
03:57and fighting into one medium and that very much ties in with the Chinese culture it's
04:01portraying. But I don't know if it's the template. I think more movies would benefit from heading
04:05in that direction if you want to showcase beautiful choreography. I referred to at the
04:10start my love of Star Wars and especially Episode 3, Revenge of the Sith, because the
04:15fight scenes in that movie are long wide shots to highlight the choreography. And so to that
04:21degree, if you are putting in all of that effort to have the talent on show, then I
04:26think that this is a template for that, certainly.
04:29And is it the sort of film that you will watch time and again? I mean, you've already said
04:33that you do, but is it the sort of film that is like an antidote almost to some of those
04:37more, as I would say, this is perhaps my bias in here, but sometimes the more sort of generic,
04:41you know, often you see some of the superhero films or action sequences and you kind of
04:46know where it's going. You've seen it before. But what is it that has, you know, the particular
04:49sparkle here?
04:51I think it's that every time I rewatch it, I notice something different. Because the
04:56frame is so broad, there's always bits in the background or subtle motions that I didn't
05:00notice the last time. And so the rewatchability is humongous because every corner of the frame
05:07is a painting and I could almost just take individual snapshots and enjoy them and appreciate
05:12them if they were in an art gallery. So sometimes it isn't necessarily just about the action
05:17for why I love rewatching it, although that is certainly there. And yeah, it's all about
05:22the visual spectacle. The story is good, but it is much more about being purely cinematic
05:27for me. And that's why I enjoy rewatching it.
05:29Would you think you would have found it if it hadn't been something that you studied
05:33in an educational context? Is it almost sort of like you happen to watch it and then it's
05:37changed you? Or do you think that inevitably at some point you would have caught up with
05:40it?
05:41It's a mix. I think for this film, I don't think I would have stumbled across it. There
05:45was a potential chance because Donnie Yen is in the movie and he is within Rogue One,
05:49a Star Wars story too. And it was around the time that I was watching that movie that this
05:54came up. So I immediately resonated with him as an actor and what he does. Outside of that
05:58potential coincidence, I don't think I would. So to that end, I'm always grateful for my
06:02education pointing me in the direction of films that I would have never possibly considered.
06:07Brilliant. Well, it's time now to move on to your second chosen film and you've gone
06:11for The Fountain.
06:14Yes. So this is Darren Aronofsky and it's one of his lesser known movies, I feel, with
06:20Hugh Jackman. Obviously quite poignant that we have him at the minute with the movies
06:25out at the moment with Wolverine. But this is my favourite film of all time and it's
06:29a bold claim to make because narrowing it down to one film is very difficult. The reason
06:33why is because I think this is such a high concept movie for me about life and our importance
06:39and it really makes me contemplative and reflective. I think reflective is the key word for me
06:45on my own life. And I tend to watch it at least once a year and I feel like it's one
06:50of those films where based on where you're at in your life, the viewing experience will
06:54feel slightly different.
06:55Now what I recall from this, because actually we had a Darren Aronofsky film last week,
06:59but here, am I right in thinking that there were multiple versions of this or at least
07:03it spent a lot of time sitting on a shelf because they didn't know what to do with it
07:07because it had a vast running time. And of course it's one of those films that deals
07:13with the whole of human time and history condensed into this one film.
07:20Absolutely. So this film is set really in three chapters so it's a past, present and
07:25future story and I believe, and you can cut this out if it's wrong, but I believe Brad
07:29Pitt was originally meant to be in this movie and stepped away from the project so there
07:33was budget issues, there was the fact that their main actor wasn't going to be in it
07:37so this film was pushed aside. And there's an opening action sequence in the movie which
07:42is of quite small scale and was originally meant to be much more grand. Luckily I think
07:46doesn't hinder the movie because the action scene is sort of a means to get you to the
07:50story so it didn't bother me too much. I think that this movie is very difficult to understand
07:56on a first watch. I think after watching it for the first time I didn't necessarily love
08:00it as much and it took, but it was that film that was a bit of an itch, like I had to go
08:05back to it, I had to rewatch it and understand what it meant. And it was on the second watch
08:09through that I think all of the threads tied together because it is a film about stepping
08:15through time, your influence through time, how different versions of yourself can affect
08:20each other and it's a very fluid film. I think that's probably the best singular word I could
08:24use to describe it.
08:25So do you find then that at different times, different sequences, different characters,
08:30different timelines sort of speak to you? Because that's the magic of cinema sometimes
08:34that you grow up with the film but the film also grows up with you.
08:38Absolutely. I think a key message within this movie is about being okay with letting something
08:43go. The main sort of present day character that Hugh Jackman is in the modern day is
08:49more themed around a doctor who's struggling to let go and is trying to push the boundaries
08:54of his research because of what he's struggling to deal with. And I think within life as you
08:59move through things I can be quite a sentimental person, I can not want to let go of a trinket
09:03that I had from a few years ago or maybe like a good memory or maybe a friend who's moved
09:08away and it's all those kind of things where when it's about the subject of letting go
09:12and moving on and embracing something new, that is always different for you at each stage
09:16of life because what you're dealing with when you're at university or starting a family
09:20or just leaving school or getting a first job, what you're leaving behind and what you're
09:24stepping into is always different.
09:26As you were talking Terrence Malick's Tree of Life came to mind as well as something
09:29that deals with the same sort of cosmic and the personal story as well. Do you think that
09:34Aronofsky sort of got the balance right? Because obviously you're bound to say yes because
09:38you've chosen it as the best film ever. But is there that sort of sense here that he's
09:43doing something that could easily have misfired? And I know critically there have been some
09:47quite negative reviews but it's that interplay between something vast and cosmic but also
09:52this love story.
09:53Yes, absolutely. I think the only way you could say it missed the mark a little is that
09:58I believe it does take a lot of introspection to understand it and I believe that everyone
10:03will interpret it differently. My view and what it means to me will be different to
10:08what it means to someone else and there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's a
10:11great thing. I think that the toughest aspect of it is firstly that it is a tough watch
10:17on the first time round because you're just trying to pick things up. So for a general
10:20audience looking for a popcorn flick or something fun it's not going to hit the mark there.
10:25And then I also strangely believe that the trailer of the movie and what the movie is
10:30don't always match up. So I believe when you watch the trailer and then you come into the
10:33movie you might be expecting different things and so I think that for the marketing perspective
10:39it's a very tough film to market properly. So it's not against the people who made the
10:44trailer but I don't know how I would have articulated this movie ahead of seeing it.
10:48And did you see this, I'm guessing, on the small screen? Because I really struggled to
10:52get it. I remember buying a DVD of this somewhere in London once but it was very difficult to
10:57get hold of.
10:58I watched it online, I think it was, well it was just on Amazon. It came onto Amazon
11:02Prime for a couple of months I think and I've seen it in DVD shops as well, sparingly, but
11:08I just stumbled across it because I recognised Rachel Weisz and Hugh Jackman and obviously
11:13I've seen other Aronofsky movies. It's not my first exposure to him. I think it's probably
11:17one of the last Aronofsky movies I saw and I know I watched this around the time Mother
11:21came out and they're polar opposites. The way I said this was fluid, Mother is aggressive
11:26and a tough watch. So this felt like the polar opposite.
11:29Brilliant. Well that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show. However
11:34before we go to the break we have a Kent Film Trivia question for you at home.
11:40Which film used Noel Park as the exterior of a powerful building? Was it A. Official
11:46Secrets, B. Tolkien or C. The Favourite? We'll reveal the answer right after this break.
11:53Don't go away.
11:56Hello and welcome back to Kent Film Club. Just before the ad break we asked you at home
12:11a Kent Film Trivia question. Which film used Noel Park as the exterior of a powerful building?
12:18I asked was it A. Official Secrets, B. Tolkien or C. The Favourite? And now I can reveal
12:25to you that the answer was in fact C. The Favourite. Noel Park was used as the exterior
12:31of Westminster Place in a carriage scene involving the peasantry. Although it is believed that
12:35this shot ended up on the cutting room floor in the film's editing process. Did you get
12:41the answer right? Well it is time now to move on to your next chosen film and you've gone
12:47max for The Place Beyond The Pines.
12:51Yes, this is a really important movie to me just because it really highlights family.
12:58This movie shows how one decision can impact your generations going on and this means a
13:05lot to me because I work within my family's business focused on sustainability and for
13:11me because I'm in and around my family all day every day working together I know the
13:16importance of working for each other and the care that we show. And this movie shows
13:22how one singular moment or decision can ripple through time all the way down through generations.
13:30And give me a bit about the background in this because it sounds in some ways like a
13:34counterpart to the film we were talking about just before the break in terms of having that
13:38sort of passage of time and intersecting at different stages with the life experiences
13:43of the protagonists.
13:44Yes, so this story revolves around the main character you can see in the middle so it's
13:49Ryan Gosling playing the character of Luke Glanton and he finds out right at the start
13:54of the movie, so not a spoiler to say, that someone he had met with on one of his tours
14:01had been pregnant and has given birth to his child. And his decision as to whether to move
14:06on with his tour away from the town and carry on with his life or to stay and try and support
14:12that child then ripples through the story.
14:15Now the key thing that this movie does is it shows a big passage of time and without
14:21getting into spoilers it does something very daring I think. Compared to The Fountain which
14:27is constantly intersecting through time this movie never breaks time, always moving forward,
14:32no flashback, no crossover. And when you're in a multi-generational movie where you're
14:38pushing through how one decision impacts different generations, having the movie not
14:45go back and forth is an odd choice but for this film it works perfectly because it really
14:51makes the decisions at the start feel very far away the more you get through the movie.
14:56And also it's what it does for the audience because the filmmaker may have shot the film
15:00in a particular way. I know M. Mike Tromelon famously shot The Sixth Sense in linear order.
15:05Every scene that you see in the film was done in that order. But actually we the audience
15:09are going to be doing the flash forward and the flashback because it's always going to
15:13resonate in some way with our lives so actually the filmmaker's approach can actually be an
15:18invitation to us to do the very thing that they've deliberately consciously chosen not
15:23to do.
15:24Absolutely and I feel like because the characters they step you into their world so instantly
15:28as the movie goes on and they refer to scenes you've already been accustomed to whereas
15:33another movie might show you that scene again from another character's perspective. This
15:37movie just lets you sit with your memory of it and you might misremember the scene. I've
15:42seen this film a couple times now and there are specific bits around the middle where
15:46things get quite intense that I didn't remember them as I thought I did and having characters
15:52memories and basically being invited as an audience member to participate in remembering
15:59what happened earlier and what it leads to it made me feel like I was living that life.
16:03And so there's the irony that it's a film that has no flashback only if you like it
16:08proceeds forward in chronological time but you will re-watch the film and so by definition
16:14you're involved in that, you're returning to the scene. So tell me what that was like
16:19to watch the film on a second or maybe even a third occasion and in terms of its particular
16:24structure which has impressed you so much you were sort of imposing on that film some
16:28element of going backwards.
16:30Yes, absolutely. So there is and actually I would like to challenge the audience to
16:34try and spot this one because as a filmmaker myself I love spotting the easter eggs and
16:40knowing where they put subtle hints in and there is a very subtle father-son linking
16:47hint that is introduced at the start of the movie that comes up towards the end of the
16:52movie that I only saw the second time around watching that really connected the characters
16:58and that singular, it is an action as well and if you can spot that what that action
17:03is that would be incredible if you choose to see the movie. It just reminded me that
17:08no matter how much impact you have on someone there are certain parts of you that will always
17:13transcend down through your generations, actions, ways of thinking, ways of being and almost
17:19that responsibility of you and what you do.
17:23So as I was asking you in relation to The Fountain it's a film that you can grow up
17:26with, a film that can grow up with you. So have you noticeably had a different experience
17:31when watching this film more than once?
17:33Yes, absolutely because there's characters at different ages and I feel like the character
17:37of Luke Glanton when I first watched the movie I was not in his age demographic, I'm now
17:42coming into the point where I'm a similar age to the character is at the start of the
17:46film and I think the younger characters you meet throughout the movie I was sort of more
17:52their age when I first watched it so I almost found the later stages more impactful than
17:58the beginning and now it's flipping a little bit where I could relate and understand the
18:03end of the movie and now I'm understanding the start of the movie.
18:06Brilliant, well time now to move on to your final chosen film and you've gone for Del
18:11Toro's Pinocchio which I saw at the Curzon in Canterbury a couple of years ago. Tell
18:15me why you've chosen this film?
18:17Well this movie in a way takes it all the way back to the beginning for me. So this
18:22movie I saw it in the cinema, I also saw it at the Curzon in Canterbury and it was a beautiful
18:26experience. I grew up with animation, my very first short films were Lego animations and
18:32so then the first films I remember watching is Wallace and Gromit and all the old bits
18:38and pieces like that which stuck with me so much and animation has always, and physical
18:43animation has always held a very close place in my heart. This film is a very gritty retelling
18:50of a classic story but I think that the passion the team put into bringing these characters
18:55to life, watching the behind the scenes as to how they did it, the tireless effort you
18:59have to put in to every single second, the planning, the costumes, the decision making
19:04and the dedication. Del Toro, this version and his dedication to animation, we don't
19:09see too much of it these days and that's what makes it so special.
19:12Because when you consider there have been some not necessarily very successful adaptations
19:16of the Pinocchio story but this one really had a heart, which is deeply ironic in terms
19:20of the whole edifice of human, not human, a trope that we've seen in films in all sorts
19:25of genres across time. But there is something about animation isn't there which can take
19:32you places which live action cannot?
19:35Absolutely and I think that it's mainly the sort of side characters in the movie, the
19:41insect character that's following through the story, he's very larger than life and
19:46I feel like articulating the way those side characters are brought in, you could never
19:50have done in a live action as successfully with their facial expression and their mannerisms
19:55and even how they portray Pinocchio in here, it's such a unique way and he feels so real,
20:02the wood that he's carved out of feels, the way the light hits it, you couldn't do it
20:07in sort of a 3D animation and get away with it without, I understand that there will be
20:11bits that are supporting in this movie but you could never 3D animate it totally the
20:16way that physical props can do.
20:19And it's a film which children can watch, I forget what rating it had, however it's
20:26dealing with the whole question of loss and death and whether you can bring back and whether
20:32you would want to bring back the same lost child and so it's dealing with something hugely
20:38powerful and poignant but it does so in a way that actually embraces and includes rather
20:44than is necessarily a very sort of 18 rated adult movie, it's very clever for how it does
20:50what it does through the genre of animation.
20:54I completely agree, I think that there are different ways that animation can be used
20:59to appeal to both children and adults, I see parallels to Inside Out 2, one of the most
21:04recent high concept films that focuses on very adult themes but yet clearly appeals
21:11to a children's audience compared with something like Despicable Me which is new and I think
21:15whilst very entertaining for children, doesn't have the same subtext that makes an adult
21:21really think deeply so this film much more lines up with that way of thinking and as
21:25you said if it's a kid watching, lots of it will go over their head at that age, even
21:29some of it may subconsciously come through but they'll be able to still enjoy it because
21:33it's so entertaining but for an adult it can be a very tough movie because it really does
21:38make you think and as you said it's more about being careful what you wish for or really
21:45knowing if what you're currently wishing for is what you want, that's what I've taken from this story.
21:51Have you been able to watch or have you been interested in watching any of the other Pinocchio
21:55adaptations? Has this one blown all the others away?
21:58It has, I mean there's the original, the classic and I've seen that but I think this blows
22:03all of them away and I understand the classics impact on film is something that you can't
22:08even take into consideration when ranking movies but this is to me the best version
22:13of Pinocchio, it's set in such an interesting time, the character choices are so focused
22:20and so deliberate and really the care and attention that every single person put into
22:25making this film, I can feel it all leaping off the screen so yeah, to me this blew every
22:30previous version away even if I enjoyed other ones.
22:33So when you went to see this at the Curzon, we may even have been at the same screen,
22:38but was it a case of being interested in the film because you'd read the reviews or was
22:43it the subject matter or was it just an accident, what made you watch it and then for you to
22:47come away and rank it as one of your four favourite films?
22:50Sure, so it was interestingly, I was scrolling through Facebook and I saw a behind the scenes
22:55clip of one shot of the movie, it was the scene where the monkey character whose name
23:01escapes me is just sort of swinging through the carnival and when he's going through it
23:06takes a four second shot but it shows the behind the scenes, all the people bringing
23:10bits and pieces in to move the shot and that just instantly reminded me of being a kid,
23:15nine years old, in my house, doing Lego animations, moving things, taking days to edit four seconds
23:20of footage and I wanted to watch it just because of that.
23:23Then I saw it was Del Toro, then I saw it was a classic story that I've not seen a great
23:26version of in a long time and just the pieces came together and it had to be a film to watch.
23:31Fantastic, well I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:35Many thanks to Max Barrett for joining us and being such a brilliant guest and many
23:39thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:41Be sure to come back and join us again at the same time next week.
23:45Until then, that's all from us.
23:47Goodbye.