Adliya Establishment Kasheedgi...Tajzia Karon Ka Mojooda Halaat Par Tabsarah
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00:00Have you seen this as Adli Establishment Ladai?
00:30Sir, make this decision, whatever they say, everyone should accept it.
00:33You have to sit here and say what you think is right, I will say what I think is right.
00:36I talk to reporters every day, I talk to them every day.
00:39Sir, the problem is that we have two things here.
00:42One of our decisions is when we have to listen to someone.
00:46Just like Adli has to decide when to listen to someone,
00:48the journalist also decides when to listen to someone.
00:51Don't you know what campaigns were carried out here against Atharva Manila?
00:55Don't you know how much Babur Sattar was opposed?
00:58Don't you know?
01:00I don't know who plays with whom and who doesn't.
01:05But please don't call the judges on this basis.
01:09This is Imran Khan's judge. Why did Imran Khan say this?
01:12My personal opinion is that many judges are anti-establishment.
01:17Your personal opinion is fine.
01:19What was the reputation of Qazi Faiz before becoming Chief Justice?
01:25Anti-establishment.
01:26Has anyone been able to decide who is right?
01:29There can be opponents of Imran Khan,
01:31but no one knows who is right.
01:34Everyone knows why there are opponents.
01:36But you will see that judges from many places are also anti-establishment.
01:42Because there is a role of the establishment,
01:45there is an illegal role.
01:48People don't like Adliya.
01:50I agree with the fact that Adliya also watched during the time of Noon League.
01:55I think they didn't get much support from within.
01:58Because they didn't get support from within,
02:00so the isolated judges didn't decide anything.
02:03But how many cases did you see at that time?
02:05When it was written in the verdicts that these NAB cases are for political engineering.
02:09And even today, Shabaz Sahib gave a speech in which he mentioned the black sheep in Adliya.
02:14He also said that Adliya kept writing in the verdicts that this is for political engineering.
02:19Were they judges of Noon League?
02:21When a judge saw that these NAB cases are being used for political engineering,
02:27he didn't write in one, he didn't write in two,
02:30he wrote in five, seven, eight verdicts.
02:32I think it is wrong to label these judges.
02:36So this is organic, a lot of this pushback from the judiciary you are appealing.
02:40Remember one thing, if any of us have a fight with Mian Sahib,
02:45then it is our nature that we will become anti-Nawaz Sharif,
02:50or if we have a fight with Imran Khan, then we will become anti-Imran Khan.
02:53Here too, the pressures that are being put on the judiciary,
02:56look, listen to me,
02:57the cameras should come out of the judges' bedrooms,
03:00the judges' brother-in-law or any family member should be picked up and electrocuted.
03:04What did Adliya think of you? What will you do?
03:06This is also a powerful institution,
03:08this is a very powerful institution of Pakistan.
03:11What will Adliya do?
03:12When a judge makes a decision against him,
03:14a social media campaign,
03:16that is, Imran Khan's social media campaign is highly criticized and should be,
03:19but why doesn't anyone talk about the other social media campaigns?
03:23The problem is, a lot of cases,
03:25now what did you mention in the ninth?
03:27There is a case on one man in six places.
03:29You want this decision to be made in six places,
03:32that yes, this gentleman was present in Mianwali,
03:35and he broke this place in Mianwali,
03:37along with the punishment.
03:39This gentleman was present in Sargodha,
03:41and the punishment was nine years.
03:43This gentleman was present in GHQ,
03:45and the punishment was 14 years.
03:46How can a man be present in five places at the same time?
03:49But everyone expects that
03:51he should be punished in five places,
03:54or should be punished in seven places.
03:56So, this gentleman, as Kashif says,
03:58The cases are also a bit weak.
04:00The cases went on in a weak way.
04:02At night, they,
04:03look, at some places,
04:04the criminal case was not read out,
04:05the last statement was not taken.
04:06It was clear that a lot of cases would end.
04:08And some cases are also weak.
04:10So, some cases are weak,
04:12some indictments are also weak,
04:14but somewhere or the other,
04:15there will be a strong case,
04:16if there is a conviction,
04:18because you can see that the government,
04:20even Mr. Shabashiri,
04:22did a press conference over the weekend.
04:24Once again, he repeated all those statements.
04:27But changing the prosecutors,
04:30taking the statements to the not-shops,
04:32you said that the next 100 days will be very important.
04:34If it is as organic as well,
04:36as Kashif is saying,
04:38that there is resentment within the institution of the judiciary,
04:41Mr. Imran Khan will be the biggest beneficiary of this.
04:44And in this entire process,
04:46where does Nawaz Sharif stand?
04:47I will add two sentences to this.
04:49You just asked this question to Mr. Malik.
04:51Remember that if two institutions face off,
04:54then obviously,
04:56the people of the institutions will also stand together.
04:59So, where a lot of judges,
05:01whether they are high courts or Supreme Court,
05:03judges will also stand together.
05:05They will feel that the fight is going to be with the establishment.
05:07So, this could be another reason
05:10why all the judges are standing together.
05:12They are saying, who is the adversary?
05:14This is the adversary.
05:15Let's fight them.
05:16Yes, Mr. Malik.
05:17See, what are institutions?
05:19Institutions are made up of people.
05:21There are certain accepted norms everywhere.
05:24Like in the history of Pakistan,
05:26there has always been interference.
05:28Not just one institution,
05:30there has always been interference in everyone's affairs.
05:32But there are some acceptable limits.
05:34Like you say,
05:36I got a call, I got a threat,
05:38they opened my file, etc.
05:40When you go to families,
05:42when you cross red lines,
05:44then everyone's reaction is different.
05:46Many years ago, I remember,
05:48I was a young reporter,
05:49I was sitting with Justice Zulla,
05:51who was also the Chief Justice.
05:53So, we talked about the judges.
05:55I don't forget what he said.
05:57He said, son, remember one thing,
05:58never upset the judge.
06:00Because in every case,
06:02the judge has 50-50 options.
06:04Whether he acquits you or punishes you.
06:06In every case.
06:08So, never fight with the judge.
06:10That is very expensive.
06:12See, the problem is that
06:14there is no question of merit or non-merit.
06:16In every case, there is merit,
06:18whether it is a punishment or acquittal.
06:20The real merit is made by the judge.
06:22And when you personalize things,
06:24then the reactions will also be personalized.
06:26Like Kashi was pointing out.
06:28But you tell me one thing,
06:30the biggest problem in this country,
06:32which has stopped the whole country,
06:34a political problem,
06:36is on the May 9th issue.
06:38The army says, punish the May 9th people.
06:40Others also say, punish them.
06:42What is the debate about?
06:44Whether military courts are permissible
06:46or not on civilians,
06:48or whether the case can be or cannot be.
06:50I know why the Supreme Court has been sitting for a year.
06:52All kinds of cases are being live-streamed.
06:54On all kinds of cases,
06:56the Supreme Court has been sitting for 3-4 days.
06:58The issue on which the whole country has stopped,
07:00the politics of the whole country has stopped,
07:02why are you not making a bench on it?
07:04Listen to what is being said in the marketing.
07:06They say, if judges come again,
07:08they will bring judges of their choice.
07:10Then the split of the bench will be approved.
07:12Then maybe the cases will be decided.
07:14When you cloud the credibility
07:16of the judiciary in this way,
07:18then things go wrong.
07:20It doesn't work.
07:22My opinion is that
07:24both the judiciary and the army
07:26should take a deep breath,
07:28take a deep breath,
07:30take a step back,
07:32and redefine the rules of engagement.
07:34But Justice Naseem Hassan Shah said
07:36that sometimes the judges agree
07:38on the death penalty.
07:40And where there is a lot of pressure,
07:42the whole system should not be covered.
07:44There are limitations.
07:46I remember one of the generals,
07:48there was a famous meeting.
07:50It was with General Musharraf.
07:52It was the last famous meeting.
07:54They said,
07:56everything was fine.
07:58When he left,
08:00another general,
08:02who is no longer in this world,
08:04was also taking his name.
08:06He said to the Chief Justice,
08:08a loaded sentence,
08:10that his family is there,
08:12the army is there,
08:14anything can happen,
08:16he is a woman.
08:18You are threatening my family.
08:20But when it comes to family,
08:22everyone reacts differently.
08:24Our reaction will also be different.