Frank Islam speaks with Mateen Haider, Islamabad-based analyst and anchor on the Pakistan situation post elections | Washington Calling
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00:00 [MUSIC]
00:16 >> This is Frank Islam,
00:18 Chairman and CEO of FY Investment Group,
00:20 and your host, The Boston Calling,
00:22 where we interview leading voices from business,
00:25 from politics, from journalism,
00:27 and topics that impact you, the viewer.
00:30 Today, we have a distinguished guest.
00:32 His name is Mateen Haider.
00:35 He's a journalist, anchor, and political analyst.
00:39 He appears regularly in Pakistani,
00:41 Indian, and global TV networks.
00:44 He specializes in foreign affairs,
00:46 defense, and security issues.
00:50 Thank you, Mateen, for coming to our show,
00:53 and welcome to our show.
00:54 >> My pleasure.
00:56 >> As you know, Pakistan had election,
00:59 whose results were quite different,
01:00 but was widely anticipated.
01:02 Do you think the new government under Shahbaz Sharif will be
01:06 able to end months of
01:08 political uncertainty and resolve the current economic crisis?
01:12 Do you think the election was fair and free?
01:16 Do you think the economic crisis is
01:18 a collapse of the economy in Pakistan?
01:21 Do you think they have to restructure the debt?
01:24 Do you think that the Nawaz Sharif will pull
01:28 the string and he will have
01:30 the power rather than Shahbaz Sharif, his brother?
01:33 So shed some light on it.
01:35 Do you think that it sounds like what we hear from the people,
01:40 that is the Imran Khan's party won rather than Muslim League won?
01:47 So shed some bright light on these things so we can talk.
01:52 >> Okay. So thank you so much.
01:55 One question, you have asked more than five questions.
01:59 So I will one by one definitely answer.
02:02 So one thing that you asked about long political uncertainty,
02:08 that's ripped Pakistan indeed, that's true.
02:11 But now definitely this uncertainty should come to an end
02:16 after peaceful transition of this democratic process.
02:21 So I will answer that question.
02:23 I think that's the right thing to do.
02:26 I think that's the right thing to do.
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16:43 I think that's the right thing to do.
16:45 I think that's the right thing to do.
16:47 I think that's the right thing to do.
16:49 You see a brighter horizon in terms of relationship with India as well as United States.
16:55 You think there's going to be close relationship between the two countries, India as well as United States.
17:00 Yes, during this tenure because Pakistan Fitness Party also believes that relations with India should be better,
17:07 should be stronger, there is an enormous huge opportunity of trade and economic ties between Pakistan and India.
17:15 Other than trade and economic ties, people of both nations wish to talk to each other the way it used to happen from 2008 and 1913.
17:27 There used to be a lot of exchanges of visits, people to people contact, media diplomacy, cultural diplomacy and political diplomacy was at its peak.
17:38 So we have seen these all activities suspended between India and Pakistan over the last 10 years.
17:43 So other than trade, normalization of ties, dialogue which is much awaited, that dialogue should take place between India and Pakistan.
17:52 People to people contact, that should be restored.
17:57 For that purpose, both countries should speak from the heart and the grudges should be removed.
18:04 Right, so because one thing I would like to say that the biggest economic market is within the region.
18:11 Pakistan is not supposed to seek any most favorite nation status, this GSP plus status from Europe.
18:21 If they try, if economic ties are improved with Central Asia, with Afghanistan, with Iran, with India and with China,
18:31 this is the biggest region where if the ties and relations are improved, then both countries can benefit hugely from each other.
18:40 India is also a huge market, Pakistan is also a huge market.
18:44 So I would like to conclude on this account that of course Pakistan would also like to, Pakistan would never lose its good relationship with Washington.
18:54 Because despite Pakistan makes heavy military procurement from Beijing's defense market, China's defense market,
19:02 America still have a lot of influence on economics.
19:06 IMF is there, World Bank is there, Financial Action Task Force, although it is based in Paris,
19:14 but United States have strong influence on the international financial institution.
19:19 And in the month we are talking now, another review of Pakistan IMF review package would be definitely negotiated.
19:28 So it's all green signal from American leaders.
19:32 Very nice.
19:33 Yes, a signal, green signal, this program will be finalized.
19:38 And we hope so that the Prime Minister, Shabbar Sharif, after getting briefing from the foreign ministry on foreign affairs.
19:47 So who is the foreign minister?
19:50 Cabinet is yet to be announced.
19:55 Cabinet is yet to be announced.
19:57 Let's change the subject.
19:59 It will be now announced after the presidential election.
20:02 The cabinet will be sworn in by the next president and the next president is as I said expected Mr. Asif Ali Zardari.
20:11 And according to initial reports, former finance minister, Mr. Senator Ishaq Dar is expected to be the foreign minister in the new cabinet.
20:20 This is significant one.
20:21 How it is significant?
20:23 Because by induction of Mr. Ishaq Dar as a foreign minister, foreign policy will be in the direct control of Mian Nawaz Sharif.
20:32 Although his brother is prime minister, but Ishaq Dar, Ishaq Dar means Nawaz Sharif.
20:38 And which is why now he has not been given the finance ministry.
20:42 The finance ministry would be looked after by amazingly this time a decision has come that the president of a private bank, HPL, Habib Bank Limited, Mr. Rohan Jain,
20:53 he is going to be the advisor to the Prime Minister on finance.
20:58 And Dr. Musaddik Malik, who is another PM of NBP, that he is also expected to be the finance minister because he is sitting senator.
21:06 So a sitting senator who is a member of parliament could be a finance minister.
21:11 And the Shamsha Duttar, who was finance minister in the caretaker government, would continue her job as a special assistant to PM or maybe as an advisor to the prime minister.
21:23 So this is now the new things that Ishaq Dar, if Ishaq Dar is the foreign minister, then that means in the first three months,
21:32 the things that you have mentioned, ties with India, ties with China and ties with the United States will be the top priority of this present government.
21:41 It is as serious and biggest issue as the economy because foreign policy, Pakistan faces very serious foreign policy challenges.
21:51 I agree. I completely agree with you that balancing relations between Beijing and Washington would be a big challenge for this Shabazz people.
22:00 I want to change the subject and talk about the Pakistani diaspora.
22:06 How do you see the role of the Pakistani diaspora in the US in helping the country or even forging a diaspora South Asian unity?
22:14 Do you think the Pakistan diaspora has a character, capacity and a competence to, as we move forward with Pakistan,
22:26 to help the country? Because they can help you in the healthcare, innovation, entrepreneurship.
22:32 They can help you in the philanthropic activity. They can help you with creating a new job, creating a new company.
22:41 And also, do you believe that they have a unique role to play, just like the Indians do in the United States, the Pakistani diaspora, not just in the United States, but everywhere in the world?
22:52 Yes, I should thank. Yes, this is again a very important question.
22:59 And I would like to say the Pakistani diaspora, although it is not as big as the Indian diaspora.
23:06 Yeah. But despite this, Pakistani, but despite this, Pakistani diaspora is very strong.
23:12 Number one, politically and number two, through this business and trade and their particular political position across the United States.
23:23 We see Pakistani origin, Americans are holding political positions somewhere.
23:30 They are mayors somewhere. They are in the state assemblies.
23:33 And of course, other than this, they are also enjoying significant bureaucratic positions in Washington, D.C.
23:43 Now, coming to this particular thing that whether they will be able to connect, they have influence like this APNA,
23:50 this Association of Pakistani Physicians of North America. They have a political action committee, PSE.
23:58 That committee is very powerful. And we have seen this committee in the past used to work for, used to lobby for Pakistan.
24:06 So we expect that these powerful Pakistanis, and in just a couple of months before, when Pakistan's army chief, General Alasir Muneer, was in Washington,
24:16 along with the spy master DG of Inter-Services Intelligence, Lieutenant General Nadeem Abdul-Jabbar,
24:22 both interacted with Pakistani diaspora in Pakistan Embassy in Washington.
24:28 And there have been very influential, very prominent business background people, including one Pakistani who was having a business in information technology,
24:39 donated more than seven, eight million dollars for Nus University in Islamabad.
24:45 So you are very right. I will agree with you that this diaspora need to definitely invest in Pakistan at a time when Pakistan need investment.
24:55 But one very important thing, where during our interactions off and on, wherever we used to be in Washington,
25:01 this diaspora's confidence should be rebuilt and restored on Pakistan.
25:08 Because usually when somebody comes from an American background system and landed in Pakistan, so they are usually dodged, they are usually deceived.
25:18 And we have seen in the past many such reports that some of those Pakistanis faced serious issues and problems, and some of them even lost money.
25:30 So this is what the Pakistani leadership used to assure that their investment would be safe.
25:38 For that purpose, a new institution in Pakistan, a special investment facilitation council has been set up.
25:45 Although it is completely military-backed, but it is focusing on minerals, exploration of oil and gas, and information technology.
25:55 In these two areas, information technology and oil and gas and mineral exploration,
26:00 if you look into the Chauhi mountains, the mountains from Quetta till Gwadar,
26:08 trillions of dollars of minerals are there in the mountains.
26:15 And one estimate was made that it's more than six trillion dollars different type of minerals.
26:23 Right. So, but for that purpose, if we have to get that six trillion dollars, we need some investment.
26:32 Right. We don't have that. Pakistan doesn't have that capacity or technology at these all things.
26:37 And Pakistani diaspora, they will be investing, as you mentioned, healthcare, information technology, and in different sectors, they need protection.
26:48 The biggest issue is protection to their capital. And if the protection is given, one window operation is there, investment-friendly policies are there.
26:58 And, of course, at the bottom level, it's obvious it's not secret that this happens in many countries, but of course, the investors are protected.
27:08 What happens? That is the corruption. Right. Kickbacks, commissions and corruptions.
27:13 This worries the businesspersons, Pakistani origin businesspersons in the United States.
27:20 And we hope so that the current government needs to give an assurance to these billionaire Pakistanis who are a source for connecting Pakistan with the United States.
27:32 And of course, a bridge between Pakistan and the US. But they need definitely.
27:37 And they're worried, as you previously told, they're always worried about the future of Pakistan.
27:43 So they need to be encouraged to come and invest in Pakistan, although some of them, like Mr. Lorry, who is based in Silicon, right.
27:53 So he is and likewise, many other leaders and the business people, they have opened up some businesses in Pakistan.
28:02 But again, protection should be given to them, security of their investment and these whole things.
28:09 And if this is done, diaspora can help Pakistan in overcoming the current economic and political challenges.
28:16 And it can bring also Pakistan close to the US administration.
28:21 So they are uniquely positioned to take India to the next height, to take Pakistan to the next height.
28:28 Let me of course, of course, I would just say that, of course, whatever are the issues with India that needs to be resolved.
28:37 At least dialogue should be open so that India and Pakistan need to sit together, remove grudges, remove misunderstanding.
28:44 But before dialogue takes place and before this current government makes any significant initiative or move to invite Modi,
28:53 but the Indian Prime Minister Modi has to remember that it has to give certain concessions to Pakistan.
28:59 Particularly, the result is 5th August 2019 actions, unilateral actions on Jammu and Kashmir,
29:06 which was in complete violation of the UN Security Council.
29:09 And India has unilaterally changed the status of the Jammu and Kashmir.
29:15 So it has to give certain concessions. Without concessions, dialogue cannot be open.
29:20 And of course, as I said, Nia Nawaz Sharif is also desirous of normalizing ties with India.
29:26 Of course, diaspora can also play a role. But for that purpose, India has recently, we have seen that Bilawal Patel Zardari went to Goa, India,
29:34 in the Shingai Cooperation Organization Foreign Minister's Conference.
29:39 The moment he left Goa, India, the J. Shankar, Indian External Affairs Minister,
29:46 the remarks were not justified, which were unwarranted.
29:51 So India needs to change its tone and tenor towards Pakistan so that confidence could be restored.
29:58 Without restoring the confidence, it would be very difficult for India and Pakistan to sit together.
30:04 Confidence-building measures need to be initiated at the first stage.
30:08 So let me change my subject. The Pakistani youth have no memory of partition.
30:13 And they want to engage people-to-people relationship with India and other countries as well.
30:20 And Pakistani youth form about, as I understand, 44% of the voting bloc under age 35.
30:27 What's your thoughts on Pakistani youth?
30:34 I agree with you that Pakistan's human resource is its youth, really. And this youth is exactly,
30:44 it's the only human resource Pakistan has, the youth. And these all youths, currently, they are the,
30:51 of course, more than 90% they are supporters of PTI and Imran Khan.
30:56 That's what I thought.
30:58 But as you said, exactly, as you said that they have short memories, they may not remember what happened in 1947.
31:06 Of course, India and Pakistan's partition took place. And then we have to talk again, 1971, when Pakistan was dismembered.
31:14 So this youth need to be engaged positively. Youth can play a very positive role.
31:19 There are millions of Pakistani youth who are using social media tools and who are projecting themselves.
31:26 They are involved in different type of businesses through social media.
31:30 This youth could be engaged positively. And same is the Indian youth.
31:36 Indian youth is also far, far ahead as far as use of social media, digital technologies are concerned.
31:44 So both could be positively engaged, right, in developing and projecting people-to-people politics.
31:52 And a better image, whatever is the image that has been portrayed by the Indian media or Indian social media about Pakistan,
32:01 that needs to be shown, that needs to be edited. And a positive picture of each other needs to be shared with them through social media,
32:11 through this TikTok short stories. They need to be made and shared with each other so that the youth on both sides, right,
32:19 if we have to move forward, I mean India and Pakistan, likewise in 2010, 11 and 12, there was no space in Lahore hotels, really.
32:29 There used to be so many Indian delegations, believe me. And outside India, wherever I've gone, I've gone to Australia, to Europe, to the different countries.
32:41 Those loving, the Indians who love Pakistan, they said, one day we would like to see your city Lahore, really.
32:48 And the Lahori food, and Lahori food streets and these all. Same as in Pakistan, those who migrated from India,
32:55 they wish to see their old places, their havelis, their homes, even their relatives, both in Jammu and Kashmir and also in different parts.
33:07 Still, people in different parts of India and Pakistan, their relatives, they are still connected.
33:14 Visa restrictions are very tough. If visa restrictions on both sides, on India and on Pakistan are relaxed,
33:22 then at least people-to-people tourism could be initiated. That will remove misunderstanding and that could lead to the normalization of the political ties as well, which is the need of the hour.
33:34 I agree. I think it's important to live together, to breathe together, to make sure that we can take it to the next level.
33:44 Thank you, Mateen, very much for your interview. And thank you for watching. This is Frank Islam, wishing you a great week.
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