2,500 Beatings! Freedomain Call In

Stefan Molyneux

"My wife and I have two children. We're expecting our third. We want to have as many as we can. We're both in our 20s, and I want to make sure I'm doing as much as I can to correctly raise them peacefully and also not mess them up. My childhood was pretty good, but that's the main thing, as far as peaceful ways of disciplining them if they're just blatantly disobedient."  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Get my new series on the Truth About the French Revolution, access to the audiobook for my new book 'Peaceful Parenting,' StefBOT-AI, private livestreams, premium call in shows, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and more!  See you soon!  https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2022

Transcript

00:00:00 Okay, I'm all the answer hit me hit me with how I can best help you

00:00:03 All right, so I my wife and I have two children

00:00:07 We're expecting her a third. We want to have as many as we can

00:00:11 both in our mid will season or mid 20s in my late 20s and

00:00:15 I

00:00:17 Want to make sure I'm doing as much as I can to correctly raise them peacefully and also not mess them up

00:00:25 My childhood was pretty good. But that's the main thing as far as like peaceful ways of

00:00:30 Disciplining them if they're just blatantly disobedient

00:00:33 And so yeah, that's it. That's that's the main thing and I can go into specific like scenarios if you'd like that

00:00:40 I've experienced with them

00:00:42 Yeah, sorry, how old do your kids?

00:00:44 About three and one and a half, but pretty young

00:00:47 Okay

00:00:50 I'm sorry. I don't mean yeah, I don't mean to be like three and one and a half and you're talking about what disobedience

00:00:56 Yeah, like they they both especially the three-year-old. He understands like hey come over here buddy or put that down or you know

00:01:05 you know, we got to go do this or we can't buy that and

00:01:08 Just refusing, you know

00:01:12 He knows what I'm saying. And so that that's that's that's that's the main example I would give

00:01:18 Okay, let's talk about I guess some specific

00:01:22 Instances and we'll see if we can throw the old peaceful parenting ball down the alley

00:01:27 Okay, sure. So

00:01:30 the other day

00:01:32 we were getting ready to go somewhere and

00:01:35 He opened the we had the front door open, but our screen door was shut, but he knows I'll open it

00:01:42 So he opened it and ran outside

00:01:44 With his socks on and I said wait, no come back

00:01:48 You're you're we don't have your shoes on yet. And he kept running. I said wait stop you got come

00:01:52 He looked at me and then he turned around just kept running around the driveway

00:01:55 And so I just picked him up and took him inside. That's what's one example, you know, he stopped he looked at me

00:02:01 He heard me and then he just kept disobeying

00:02:03 Right, okay got it

00:02:07 so

00:02:09 What's the problem with him? It was it because he was in his socks. I mean, is it dangerous? What's the what's the story?

00:02:14 Yeah, yeah, I mean it was it had rained and it was wet outside

00:02:18 So I didn't want him to go outside without his socks on and also he could step on a rock or something

00:02:23 I'm not trying to be a

00:02:25 Outside with his socks or without his socks. Yeah with his socks on but without his shoes on

00:02:29 He might say through the grass and then on the yeah

00:02:33 well through the grass so a sock we'd have to replace his socks because otherwise they'd be wet because it had rained prior and

00:02:38 You know and or on I mean we have like a rock bed in front of her house like step on that

00:02:45 and

00:02:46 So, uh, let's just sort of play this out. So if he goes outside

00:02:50 yeah, his socks his socks will get muddy, right and

00:02:54 What's the problem with that? I mean I get you don't want that to happen every 10 minutes or whatever

00:03:01 But if socks are muddy, wouldn't you just change his socks?

00:03:03 Sure, we were about to go and

00:03:06 All we had to do really was put his shoes on and I mean get his brother's shoes on

00:03:13 When he just ran outside ahead of us and we also I guess more important than just that is I mean just going outside alone

00:03:21 We've told him, you know, you had to go outside with mom or daddy or you know, or the babysitter

00:03:25 Don't don't and we try to keep the front door locked

00:03:28 But he's big enough now where he knows how to open it even when it's locked. So I'm sorry

00:03:33 I'm sorry. Hang on. So you just took me on a real journey here

00:03:36 I just want to make sure I stay with the specifics before we get to know for sure

00:03:39 For sure. So let's say he goes outside and he gets his socks muddy

00:03:45 You grab a new pair of socks and and then you just change him wherever you're going or like you could change him

00:03:50 Some place or you know, like kids get muddy, right? That's that's just a reality. Oh, sure boys, right?

00:03:55 So that's just kind of sure that's built into the equation of being a parent to a little boy in particular as he's gonna get

00:04:01 muddy, so

00:04:03 as far as stepping on rocks go I

00:04:05 Mean, isn't that how kids learn?

00:04:08 You

00:04:10 This is true, yes

00:04:12 When you were when you were little do you remember doing risky things

00:04:19 Yes

00:04:24 And do you think that you would be better off if you had never been allowed to do risky things as a little boy

00:04:31 I'm trying to think of specifics. I've done I

00:04:35 Get your point and I agree. It's better to let them do the risky things so they can learn especially when the stakes are low

00:04:40 And I'm not sure if this is relevant as a child. I don't think I was particularly risky or

00:04:45 Very adventurous in a dangerous way, but it is I know that's a boyish trait and he definitely has a way

00:04:51 We're talking about stepping on potentially on some rocks, right? I mean this is this isn't this isn't sky skydiving, right?

00:04:59 Right, okay, so

00:05:03 He did the negative consequences of him going outside

00:05:06 Were pretty small like he wasn't running around in a parking lot or near a road or near a cliff edge the negative consequences

00:05:14 Were pretty small, right?

00:05:17 Yes, I will say that we do live near a road and

00:05:22 That was the other half of it is him going outside by himself

00:05:27 We told him not to do because it is dangerous. Do you not have a fence between you and the road?

00:05:33 unfortunately, no, and we were we were going to build one, but we are

00:05:36 Going to be moving because our house is really small

00:05:40 And so we were just we didn't want to invest and you know

00:05:43 $50,000 fence and then move six months later a what fifty thousand dollars for a fence

00:05:48 How big is this property are you Texas?

00:05:52 it's about

00:05:55 It's about a

00:05:57 acre and a half and defense the whole thing in with metal versus like the plastic pipes would be

00:06:03 It would be upwards of 30,000. Okay, so the it's like a whole side of the acre and a half is is roadway

00:06:10 yeah, so our front door goes out right off a

00:06:14 Side road that's extremely close to a main road. And so within you know

00:06:19 40 steps he would be on a road that has

00:06:22 Probably a thousand cars that go by today

00:06:25 Got it. Okay. I mean that obviously is very serious stuff and I understand that. Okay, sir

00:06:30 Sure, so I guess more like just the I'm sorry. I know I mean to talk over you but

00:06:36 Just the I've expressed to him and not to go outside

00:06:40 I explained why not just hey, this is because I said so like hey, there's cars. It's dangerous. They can't see you

00:06:46 Sometimes they could hit you and you can get hurt

00:06:48 And so don't go outside without it and then you know, she still runs outside and I get he's exciting

00:06:54 He's a little boy and all that but I don't know how to handle situations like that

00:06:58 Right. Okay. Okay. So so the first one of the first principles of peaceful parenting is it's all about prevention not cure

00:07:05 Right. So who is responsible?

00:07:08 For your child not being able to open a front door that could lead to traffic

00:07:13 Right, so you say well he's big he's big enough to undo the lock. Is that right?

00:07:19 Yeah, since then we've got a latch like really high up

00:07:23 So we solve that issue assuming that we keep the door closed, which is all again on me

00:07:29 Okay, so

00:07:31 if you think that

00:07:33 Your kids are disobeying when you have failed to keep them safe

00:07:39 I think that's the wrong mindset if that makes sense

00:07:42 Yeah, I agree. That's not a failure on the part of your three-year-old who is a three-year-old, right?

00:07:47 Yes, and so he's gonna be impulsive. His brain is like

00:07:51 Barely bigger than a tadpole at this point and certainly, you know

00:07:55 There's there's no new frontal cortex highest section of reasoning and so on right?

00:07:59 This is the age where kids will eat chocolate till they throw up, right?

00:08:02 so

00:08:04 Prevention is you know, I mean to take a silly example

00:08:07 If you know when my daughter was three months old if I lecture her not to go near any stairs

00:08:11 That wouldn't make any sense, right?

00:08:14 Sure, I would have to make sure I had a gate so she couldn't go down the stairs, right?

00:08:18 So yeah, would you suggest and just creating an environment where?

00:08:24 Dangerous like disobedience like that is more difficult. So we don't get in that situation

00:08:28 Cuz I agree. No, no, I would say no

00:08:30 Hang on what I would say is that even the concept of disobedience for a three-year-old is odd. I mean, he's three

00:08:37 Right he I

00:08:41 mean

00:08:42 the concept of obedience and disobedience is

00:08:46 I think premature for three-year-olds

00:08:51 Right because because here's the problem as if you classify it as disobedience you're gonna get angry

00:08:57 Because what you're gonna do and I was really struck by the way you put it here and I say this with all sympathy

00:09:03 Right, it's about something judgment thing

00:09:05 But you said like he looked at me and you see them at the machinery turning in his brain, right?

00:09:11 Which is yeah to heck with dad. I'm I'm bailing. I'm out right going. Where's your homo?

00:09:17 right, right, right, right, so

00:09:20 Peace out, right? Yeah, see him evaluating right and all he's doing is he's evaluating at that age

00:09:28 He's evaluating positive and negative consequences

00:09:31 Okay

00:09:33 Right. He's like well, I really want to go outside

00:09:36 Dad's not gonna get too mad. So I'm out right and

00:09:41 The problem is then if you say generally if you say well, he can't go outside

00:09:46 He has to obey me and deep down you kind of get that. It's not an obedience disobedience thing, but it's more like

00:09:52 Consequences then you'll say well now I have to apply negative consequences ie punishment in order to shift the equation to him doing what I want

00:10:00 Does that make sense yes, and I think that's not a great mind. It's certainly not a mindset to get into with regards to

00:10:08 peaceful parenting, right

00:10:10 so

00:10:12 rather than obedience disobedience

00:10:15 It is my job to limit his choices to those that are mostly safe not all safe all the time

00:10:23 But it's my job to limit his choices to that which is you know

00:10:27 If you put a three-year-old in front of a buffet full of celery sticks and M&Ms, right?

00:10:34 What's he what's he gonna do?

00:10:37 Yeah, are you gonna sit there and say no no, no daddy really wants you to do the celery sticks

00:10:43 And he's just gonna be like he's gonna wait till your back is turned. Right? What's he gonna do?

00:10:47 He's gonna face plant into the M&Ms, right?

00:10:49 So you got to limit the buffet of his choices to that which is acceptable to you

00:10:54 Okay

00:10:56 So if if you if he has the opportunity to go outside

00:11:01 He'll take it if that's what he wants to do and it's your job I think as a parent to try and limit

00:11:07 his choices to that which is

00:11:11 Safe enough like not perfectly safe because perfectly safe is dangerous just did another way

00:11:15 But so so yeah, you just have to plan for the environment, right?

00:11:19 You know like it's the old thing that if you have a coffee table with

00:11:22 Death shop corners and you say, you know, don't run around the coffee table. It's like guess what?

00:11:28 They're gonna run around the coffee table. Oh, yeah kids, right?

00:11:31 So you have to take the coffee table and regretfully sadly put it in storage until they get older, right?

00:11:36 Or put those those bumpers on it. Yes something like that, right?

00:11:40 So generally if this if the child can choose something that is dangerous

00:11:46 It's the parents job like, you know

00:11:48 The you know that you turn the handles on the pots of boiling water you turn the handles away

00:11:54 So the kids can't grab them right rather than just screaming at them

00:11:57 I'm not saying you would scream but you know, there's a panic if they start

00:12:00 Grabbing her pots of boiling water. So it's your job to keep them away from that kind of situation

00:12:07 So I think it's all about prevention. Sorry, go ahead. I'm sorry

00:12:10 um, do you think that

00:12:12 It the only to me the only appropriate time to yell is in an emergency situation

00:12:18 like if we are

00:12:21 Near a road. Let's say we're walking and he runs ahead of me and there's a car I yell stop

00:12:24 No, like is that would you agree? That's the only acceptable time in like an emergency to to well sure anger at least in that

00:12:31 Like obviously whatever you have to do to keep your kid from running into traffic you do

00:12:36 But you have to recognize that as a failure on the part of the parent

00:12:40 Yes to be in that situation in the first place. So you guys didn't get a latch and

00:12:45 Your kid knows how to open the latch. So yeah, I mean sure I guess you can yell stop

00:12:51 Absolutely, but even being that that's that's not a problem with your kid. That's a problem with yes

00:12:57 There is a hundred percent getting into that situation

00:13:00 So it's not disobedience on the part of the kid

00:13:02 Right any more than it's a big problem if you put celery and M&Ms and your kid eats all the M&Ms

00:13:07 It's like well, of course he does because he's a kid right? I mean, I'm an adult

00:13:11 I'll still sometimes make bad food choices, right? So yeah, so it really is you got to limit the buffet to

00:13:17 What is good for your kids if that makes sense? Yes, what about?

00:13:22 There's another example, you know, he's one and a half year old brother. He's

00:13:28 Him and obviously the older brother play a lot they interact a lot and there'll be situations and maybe it's I

00:13:34 Don't think it's quite every day, but my wife is with them more than I am

00:13:39 You know, I work and she stays at home with them mostly and that the older one will

00:13:44 Push the little one down or or take his toy or sometimes even like slap him in the face or something like that

00:13:53 How do you deal with situations like that?

00:13:56 Well, I mean that's a big seemingly sure. It'll be seemingly plan. I'm sorry

00:14:01 I stopped and then I interrupted you but there'll be seemingly

00:14:04 Playing along well and everything's going nice and then suddenly the older one will I can either take his toy or just push him over for fun

00:14:11 Or get frustrated with the little one for or maybe the little one tries to take the big ones to win the big ones laughs

00:14:16 him in the face

00:14:17 Yeah, so I when that situation, what do you think? Well, I mean my first question and I mean dear little boy

00:14:25 So they're both boys, right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, so they're little boys. Look, I'm afraid there's just gonna be some simian aggression at that age

00:14:32 That's just a thing right you what you did it. I did it like everybody did it. So but my first question would be

00:14:37 Have they seen or

00:14:41 Experienced or how much have they seen or experienced any form of aggression in their?

00:14:48 environment, so

00:14:53 I'm thinking here. I'm being honest, even though it's it's you know, it's shameful I have

00:14:59 Maybe three different times

00:15:03 Lashed out at the oldest one by like pinching him

00:15:07 And I'm trying to even think of the scenario

00:15:10 one of the times and this is a scan of totally a failure on my part, but the child lock was not functioning properly and

00:15:17 I'm on the interstate and my oldest one who's three again starts opening the door realizes he can open the door

00:15:23 And I kept telling him stop stop. So and then I raised my voice. He didn't do it

00:15:27 And so then I pinched his leg like I reached around and pinched his leg. Um, that was one instance where I used

00:15:34 violence and

00:15:36 I i've spanked him once

00:15:40 Over the last three years, uh, I think I spanked him twice

00:15:44 I can't even remember the situation where I did and at both times. What do you mean? You can't remember can't remember

00:15:48 no, I

00:15:51 I'm really i'm trying to remember why like I was angry about something him being disobedient

00:15:55 I can't even remember that shows you how trivial it was

00:15:57 um

00:15:59 And so again, i'm it's shameful to admit that but that that did occur

00:16:02 um during three different occasions that I can remember it occurring, but I I don't

00:16:07 I don't recall the specifics of why I even did it

00:16:10 Okay, and listen, we'll bookmark this with the one exception that I would ask the question

00:16:16 So you're driving and the child locks aren't working or they're not set or something like that. Is that right? Correct?

00:16:21 Okay, so uh, and you're on the interstate

00:16:24 Uh, i'm trying to figure out why you wouldn't pull over to the shoulder or exit or like fix the problem that way

00:16:30 You're correct I should have just pulled over

00:16:36 Immediately and I and I did like I did shortly after that

00:16:40 And then because pinching could have gone the other way. He could have been like i'm out, right?

00:16:45 Sure

00:16:46 Sure. No, that was that was incredibly irresponsible of me

00:16:48 Well, listen, I I I hugely appreciate that you're calling and I hugely appreciate your commitment

00:16:54 So this is there's nothing negative in anything i'm going to say here, obviously, right? So, uh, i'm not

00:17:00 Trying to put you in the wrong and make you feel bad or anything like i'm genuinely thrilled to be having this conversation

00:17:05 So, uh, let's just go back a little bit. Uh, you said your childhood was pretty good

00:17:10 And of course i'm perfectly happy to accept that but tell me a little bit about how you were disciplined as a kid

00:17:16 very horribly

00:17:19 And wait, wait, you just told me you had a pretty good childhood

00:17:22 Well, okay in terms of in terms of spanking it was bad. Um, I did the uh,

00:17:27 Oh, you mean except for the violence and assaults. It was great. Yes. Yeah. No, it's a great marriage except for me beating up my wife

00:17:33 Yeah, it's one. Yes

00:17:35 Good good points. Um

00:17:37 Uh, and I mean I can go into

00:17:39 Like a 30 second summary or a two minute or whatever you would like me

00:17:43 I'm, never shy for more detail

00:17:46 okay, sure, so

00:17:49 uh when I say good like

00:17:51 My parents that my mom read to me a lot. They were very sweet

00:17:54 We had I grew up in kind of the country on a farm. I was homeschooled

00:17:57 We took road trips quite a bit. My dad was present. My parents were married. I had four siblings

00:18:03 Um, but I was spanked

00:18:06 and

00:18:08 Uh, it bothered me a lot and it still bothers me

00:18:11 And I don't even know to the extent of it, but I remember one time where I was still in diapers

00:18:18 I was so little and my dad was upset with me

00:18:21 And I don't I don't even remember why again why he was upset with me

00:18:26 But he said he was gonna beat me with the belt

00:18:28 And he took me in the bathroom and he beat me and I was so happy because I had a diaper on

00:18:34 And so it didn't hurt as bad. He didn't realize I had a diaper on he would have probably maybe take it off and so

00:18:38 uh

00:18:40 Uh, that that's one vivid memory. You're really trying to hang on brother. Are you really i'm sure you've I mean

00:18:44 You've listened to these call-in shows before right?

00:18:46 Sure

00:18:48 And i'm sure you've heard the following statement from me

00:18:51 Like why are you trying to draw me into laughter land about beating a kid a baby really or a toddler in a diaper with a belt?

00:18:57 Sure, uh, like you're kind of laughing about it, right?

00:19:00 Like you're trying to invite me into this goofy comedy world of where you attack children this way

00:19:05 I have I do this whenever i'm upset or in this difficult situation and

00:19:10 I I don't know how to if I if there's a way to overcome this because this is definitely a limitation of my

00:19:16 communication ability

00:19:18 Then I would love to but this is something that

00:19:20 Happens. I mean look am I involved? It's a fundamental question and again, no criticism

00:19:25 It's a fundamental question of can you really have more empathy for your kids than you do for yourself as a child?

00:19:31 Can you have more empathy for your kids than you did for yourself as a child that you do currently for yourself as a child?

00:19:37 Like like for instance for instance, i'm sure you've got a fine babysitter

00:19:41 But if you came home

00:19:44 And your babysitter was beating one of your children with a belt

00:19:47 Your youngest year and a half right was was was hitting your youngest, uh,

00:19:53 Uh sibling, sorry, if you if you if uh, your babysitter was hitting your youngest child with a belt

00:19:58 Would you be laughing about it as you told the story?

00:20:01 No

00:20:04 well

00:20:05 I mean i'm a philosopher a universalist guy, right?

00:20:08 So why is your youngest child worthy of protection and outrage at being assaulted and for you? It's funny

00:20:15 When you're the same age and that's what happened to you

00:20:20 And this this also may be the wrong mindset but in general I try to be

00:20:24 Diffic more difficult on myself than I am on others

00:20:27 and so

00:20:30 Even no. No, this is we can talk about that too. But this is opposite

00:20:33 This is it's appalling if I find a babysitter beating my one and a half year old kid

00:20:40 But it's funny for me like this isn't just being more hard on you. This is like opposite land

00:20:46 Yes, well, I can't there's no scenario I can think of where I wouldn't be in

00:20:50 Rage and intervene immediately or if I was retelling it, I would not be laughing about it, right?

00:20:56 And of course you'd fire the babysitter. You might even press charges like who knows right?

00:21:00 Sure. Well, it's unfortunately legal in in america as you know to hit children

00:21:05 I don't know if you're allowed to hit babies with belts

00:21:08 Oh, all right. Well, I wonder if I don't know about that

00:21:13 When I was a child it happened that's probably a border. It's probably an edge case to put it mildly

00:21:18 Okay. All right

00:21:21 so

00:21:23 Why is it terrible to happen to your little boy

00:21:26 Yeah, go ahead

00:21:28 so I have

00:21:30 because I have listened like i've listened to more of your your

00:21:32 Your content whether you know videos or listening sometimes than any other thing I can even think of

00:21:40 And I truly appreciate you've been tremendously influential and helpful and and you know demystifying things that should be simple

00:21:46 but you know society tries to uh, um with

00:21:50 their soft street a buskate so, uh

00:21:53 Well, I have even approached my parents

00:21:58 Specifically my dad there's been a couple instances. I remember my mom and I know people are easier on women

00:22:03 which I really dislike the double standard but

00:22:06 I definitely do remember my dad doing that type of behavior to me more often

00:22:10 and I remember I

00:22:12 Approached him. This is maybe a couple years ago

00:22:14 About specifically the one I told you about him beating me when I was in a diaper

00:22:19 And he looks at me and he kind of chuckles and says that didn't happen. You just made that up. I would never do that

00:22:26 And I said I this is I remember this vividly. I remember I even remember the room of the house

00:22:30 We were in and both sits, you know where I was at and then where he took me to in the bathroom

00:22:34 He goes no that didn't happen. You made that up

00:22:36 and it's it's very

00:22:38 It makes me

00:22:41 Angry at my dad as well and it's I I'm just I'm thinking about this point. That's what I wanted to say

00:22:48 And does he remember any of the I mean you so let's get to the prevalence of

00:22:55 Spanking how often did it happen when you were young?

00:22:58 I mean

00:23:03 I don't know if this is my brain blocking out or what but I I think it was

00:23:07 It was a pretty frequent occurrence like multiple times a week

00:23:11 Holy crap and and obviously from very young when you were a baby until when did it taper off when you hit puberty?

00:23:19 Uh, probably yes

00:23:22 Yeah, so of course when you got big enough to fight back magically he finds other solutions than hitting you right

00:23:30 Hello, can you hear me? Yeah, there we go. All right. I don't know what happened. Um, I apologize but that's fine

00:23:36 Um, yeah. Well, you know, I was just can I can I say one other?

00:23:39 Uh, it's one other you don't have to ask me, you know, i'm not your dad

00:23:43 You don't have to ask me just tell me sure. Well, thanks appreciate it

00:23:45 All right

00:23:46 Well, there's one other and I've I have i've literally never told a single other person about this because my mother

00:23:51 told me not to tell anybody when this happened, but

00:23:54 It was very traumatizing

00:23:57 and yeah, i'd like to share it the

00:23:59 one time my mother and I

00:24:01 were building a

00:24:04 a chicken pen

00:24:05 Uh, you know, we had a staple gun. We were stapling up like

00:24:08 the mesh wire around uh enclosure for the chickens

00:24:12 and we were

00:24:14 and I was like 10 we were

00:24:16 arguing about something and

00:24:18 I think I said something to her that obviously upset her and I started walking away

00:24:25 And she threw the the the staple gun at my head

00:24:30 And it didn't go off but it hit my head and my head was bleeding

00:24:33 and you know, I put a bandage on my head and then yeah, and uh, that did happen as well that I

00:24:39 I've uh that i've remembered that obviously

00:24:43 Ever since then and it has bothered me

00:24:45 What did your mother say at this point in the incident?

00:24:48 After it happened like almost immediately. She was apologetic

00:24:52 And again asked me not to

00:24:55 to tell anyone

00:24:57 Hmm

00:24:59 So she was apologetic, uh, did your mother use any other forms of aggression against you when you were a kid?

00:25:05 Well, she also spanked me

00:25:07 And your father spanked you a couple of times a week. What about your mom?

00:25:10 Probably once a week

00:25:15 And she was with me way more often so but also part of it is

00:25:20 As these memories are coming back

00:25:23 If both my parents were around my mother would tell my dad to spank me as well

00:25:27 Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I I get that's that's quite common

00:25:29 You know the there was even a show when I was a kid called wait till your father gets home. Uh, it was an animated

00:25:35 Gosh that's um

00:25:39 I guess you know, it's really analogous of the women using the state to oh, yeah. Yeah, that's very true. That's very true

00:25:44 All right, so i'm just gonna do a little math here, right? So spank four times a week times 52 weeks. So that's 208

00:25:51 Uh beatings or hittings a year times

00:25:55 Let's say 12 years from maybe 1 to 13

00:25:58 So you got hit?

00:26:01 Or spanked or assaulted, uh, almost 2500 times as a child

00:26:06 Yeah, that sounds about right

00:26:08 Like holy crap, i'm so sorry that's

00:26:12 And will you hit

00:26:16 Bare buttocks hands implements what happened?

00:26:19 Almost always a belt belt on bare skin or trousers pants. Uh, well both both

00:26:26 Uh, mostly it was mostly it was with my pants on but it was very painful

00:26:30 Wow i'm i'm so sorry. I mean you had it worse than me in many ways

00:26:38 Like you really oh it's this stuff it's i'm really sorry that's you know, it's

00:26:49 I just don't know how to handle it

00:26:51 I wish my parents like when I talked to them about this, we just say first look they were sorry

00:26:57 They did it so I could forgive them, but it's hard to forgive them when they're

00:27:01 When they're not even sorry it happened

00:27:04 So what happens when you do talk to them about this just appalling stuff

00:27:10 They just they just downplay it or act like it didn't happen

00:27:15 Or it's a good thing. Oh the bible says to do it, you know, and i'll tell them it's not what the verse says

00:27:20 It says I mean the rod of discipline not the physical beating the rod is instruction. Yeah, it's teaching moral instruction. It's not beating

00:27:28 Yeah

00:27:30 But that's what they that's what they either justify it or or just act like it wasn't a big deal. It didn't happen

00:27:36 I'm so sorry like my heart goes out to you brother. It's it's absolutely appalling and absolutely

00:27:45 anti-christian

00:27:47 I mean jesus said whatever you do to the least among you you do unto me and whoever harms

00:27:51 The children it's better than a millstone be put around his neck and it's like he had the death penalty for child harming

00:27:56 and then these christian

00:27:59 apologists say that somehow

00:28:01 Jesus says beat your kids. It's terrible. I want to there's another verse they bring up. It's hell if it's in proverbs, but it'll say

00:28:07 It says something to the effect of oh if you beat them if you beat them with the rod

00:28:12 It will not kill them and so they'll say well no see it does mean an actual physical stick not not just the rod of discipline

00:28:17 Yes, it is it is true that beating doesn't kill children I don't know how that means that beating is recommended

00:28:26 Yeah, if you beat the child he he will not die

00:28:32 Yeah, and now the other

00:28:35 the other risk

00:28:37 traumatizing thing that in this again

00:28:41 I'm gonna try to say this without just crying again, but

00:28:45 Listen, I don't care about the tears. Honestly, that's totally fine with me. Don't don't feel bad about that

00:28:51 This is this is there's something to cry about it's this

00:28:53 Well, no, I guess, you know, no one else was there to protect me or

00:28:59 Or cry for me. So it's coming out now

00:29:02 but

00:29:04 the other thing that

00:29:08 Really bothers me just tremendously it still affects me in adulthood is I was I was

00:29:14 Genitally mutilated. I was circumcised as a child

00:29:19 and

00:29:22 And it has it has physically like

00:29:24 I have I don't have a ton of sensitivity

00:29:27 And I mean, I just assume it's because of being circumcised

00:29:32 and

00:29:35 I've even gotten my dad to watch

00:29:37 Part of your truth about circumcision video and you were the catalyst

00:29:40 For changing my mind on that because I guess i'm stockholm syndrome, you know, I believe oh, it's cleaner

00:29:46 Oh all this other nonsense, even if it's not required anymore. It's still good to do and thank god. Thank god

00:29:52 I I woke up to that

00:29:54 You know over a decade ago, I mean it maybe whenever you came up with that video

00:29:58 and so both of my kids are fully intact and

00:30:01 but I was I was circumcised and

00:30:06 I've

00:30:08 I've told my parents even my mom as well. That's how much it bothers me and i've told them even the really my dad

00:30:14 I don't think I told my mother just because it's also kind of embarrassing but

00:30:17 that it

00:30:19 I physically don't have a ton of sensitivity

00:30:21 Because of that so, you know it impairs, uh, you know normal sexual function

00:30:27 And

00:30:30 They they literally will just laugh about it

00:30:33 And i've my brother as well who?

00:30:35 Who will not like i'm trying to get to watch the video and all that. He won't do it

00:30:39 He'll break it like we'll have family gatherings like thanksgiving or some birthday and he'll bring it up and just make a joke about it

00:30:45 And it's just so hurtful

00:30:48 I just I don't know i'm really sorry for that too

00:30:54 with regards to the sexual functioning, is it like

00:30:58 lower sensation erectile dysfunction

00:31:02 Uh inability to orgasm. I mean, is it stuff like that or yes, it's lower sensation and

00:31:08 uh inability to orgasm, uh

00:31:11 Frequently like uh

00:31:14 I yeah i've been told oh, you know, this is taking too long essentially like the opposite problem I guess of most guys because

00:31:23 It's yeah. Yeah. I've been told you're too big and you laugh too long

00:31:28 Which is not a bad thing, I guess, you know that we're getting here. But again, it's it's it's uh, yeah

00:31:33 It's it's lack of sensitivity

00:31:35 Uh, I am sorry, I am sorry

00:31:38 I mean i've obviously talked to a number of men over the years where the circumcision has gone

00:31:42 Quite awry and I mean at least you didn't have that kind of physical damage, but that is that is very tough

00:31:48 That is very tough

00:31:50 um

00:31:53 What is your relationship like with your parents at the moment

00:31:57 it's

00:31:59 it's it's interesting so

00:32:01 I used to be in in the same business. My father got me into

00:32:08 Into his business, which is a form of sales

00:32:11 And I was it was I was very good at that. Uh, I was the number one

00:32:15 Salesman in this in this for this one major company in the country. So that was cool and we worked together. Uh, but I just

00:32:24 I used to say he was the only person ever that could really make me upset

00:32:27 because

00:32:29 And maybe it's just I don't know from the relationship we had when I was a child

00:32:33 But he would just get me so angry and i'm really not an angry person

00:32:36 Generally, like I almost never

00:32:39 I can't think of the last time I raised my voice except when it was an emergency

00:32:42 Well, no, I did like four years ago once with my wife

00:32:46 But but it's another four years ago the last time I raised my voice except for some type of like emergency situation

00:32:51 and but he would just make me so

00:32:55 upset

00:32:56 and

00:32:57 He would just talk down to me and just mock me and just

00:33:00 Like he would mimic the way I talk or he'd mock my laugh or he'd just do stuff like that

00:33:05 It would really hurt be hurtful

00:33:07 and again, maybe that's silly and

00:33:10 Uh, I shouldn't know. No, not at all silly

00:33:14 Okay

00:33:16 well

00:33:17 so

00:33:18 uh

00:33:18 And the other thing was my oldest brother i'm really close to him now

00:33:22 This is said brother that would you know mock the whole circumcision thing?

00:33:25 but other than that other than that, like that's like a big thing like but but we're pretty close now and uh,

00:33:31 uh

00:33:33 But but anyhow, I mean back to my parents

00:33:35 I went into a different industry

00:33:38 as an adult and

00:33:41 Just went off and I just could not work with him anymore because it just it was so it just made me so upset

00:33:46 and

00:33:49 Uh, my mother part of the when I work with my dad, uh, he got me into this business, but he really

00:33:56 The the business agreement that we had

00:34:01 You know i'm 18 I get into this was he would get half of everything every sale I made

00:34:06 which is actually

00:34:08 really uncommon in this industry typically

00:34:11 In in situations like he would get like 15 but he was getting 50

00:34:17 uh, which I mean i'm just i'm just making up one and I thought I

00:34:19 When I learned that, you know, like yeah it when I was in the software business world

00:34:23 The most highly complex sales would max out of 40

00:34:26 Okay, all right well, um

00:34:30 Okay. Well in this was an insurance and like if you have an upline that that helps you easily

00:34:36 It's like 15 and then he was taking 50 which again I didn't even after I figured out

00:34:40 Well, this is kind of a sucky deal

00:34:42 I didn't really say too much because I like the idea i'm helping my family and i'm working with them and everything else

00:34:47 um

00:34:48 uh, and I remember uh

00:34:50 I'm pretty i'm i'm i'm i'm kind of a workaholic in a lot of ways

00:34:54 and i'll even resist like

00:34:57 Going home after five, uh, because I feel like I have the obligation to keep working even this is even nowadays

00:35:05 um, and I remember another uh,

00:35:08 Yeah when I was working with my dad

00:35:11 But one time I was really sick and we had a we had a home office

00:35:15 Uh in my parents home. I still live with my parents. I was maybe 19 or 20 at the time

00:35:19 And uh, I had I had like the flu or something i'm laying on the couch

00:35:24 Just in really bad pain and my mom comes in and I was even in my work clothes because I was still trying to muscle

00:35:29 Through it. I just couldn't handle it. I laid down it was like 10 10 in the morning. My mom comes in and says

00:35:34 What are you doing?

00:35:36 you're

00:35:37 Right now there's there's a field here that's ready to be harvested and you're just laying there

00:35:42 What are you doing?

00:35:44 uh, and and so I got up and I went out to to sell more and

00:35:48 so

00:35:51 But partially because of all of that and also I wanted to get into this other industry which was real estate and

00:36:00 Uh, so I started doing that on the side and then as it got more I just stopped doing insurance altogether

00:36:05 Um, and all this was because you asked me my relationship with him currently

00:36:08 So about four years ago, I actually got them into real estate. Maybe three years ago. It was it was 2020

00:36:14 so about three years ago, uh, and

00:36:16 they were

00:36:18 you know

00:36:20 They had no money at all and I got them into it now they're doing really well and so like I talked with my mother

00:36:25 maybe every day about business things and

00:36:29 I I live not too far from my parents. They only live about

00:36:34 Maybe 10 minutes away

00:36:37 And my wife is from poland and I don't and so her family's all over in poland

00:36:42 And I don't have any other family within like an hour of where I live

00:36:46 So i'll often like my my kids love their you know, their grandparents

00:36:52 and so they'll ask to see them or talk to them and so i'll try to set stuff up like that for them to see them and

00:36:59 They just never they never want to do it. They're like no we're too busy. We have jobs

00:37:03 No, we can't can't do that. Even on the weekends. No, i'm tired. I've got some other stuff I want to do and

00:37:08 so

00:37:09 I I feel like I try to put in effort and maybe I shouldn't maybe and i've gotten to that

00:37:12 Point where i'm contacting them less other than with work with my mother. I've refused to talk to my dad about anything work related

00:37:18 uh, and and so

00:37:20 Sorry, you refused to talk to your dad about what?

00:37:22 Anything work related. Okay. Got it

00:37:26 yeah, because it's it's

00:37:28 uh, he just he will just get angry and demean me and he'll act like like literally right after I got them into

00:37:37 Real estate we bought a couple properties together

00:37:40 And we had you obviously like any business things come up and you have to address them

00:37:44 And so i'm saying okay. Yeah, we gotta do this and this and you know, my dad's like no no, that's stupid

00:37:49 We're gonna do this way. So what are you talking about?

00:37:51 So i've been doing this for seven years and you've never you've not done this at all

00:37:54 This is how we have no no, we have to do it this way and literally, okay

00:37:57 This one person quit who has I was about to fire who's managing some properties behind my back

00:38:03 He goes and begs them to come back

00:38:05 And so they come back and then i'm sorry

00:38:08 Sorry, are you sharing the business?

00:38:12 Yes, because I had purchased I got them into real estate by birth purchasing properties with them

00:38:17 With my mother jointly not even my father's not even on the deed

00:38:21 But my father would say we try to get involved in how it's going to be managed and everything else

00:38:26 and uh

00:38:27 And so sorry, you're basically in business with your parents

00:38:32 Yes, uh, yes, well with my mother because again, I won't I won't even I won't talk to my father about I mean

00:38:37 She may talk to him, but I don't even discuss anything business with him anymore. I refuse to do it

00:38:41 Okay

00:38:45 Okay, so sorry i'm sorry I just wanted to make sure I understood that but please go ahead yeah

00:38:49 Yeah, no, no understood. Yeah, I am. Um, and my mother is pretty good businesswoman. She's pretty uh,

00:38:55 Stern and and focused and hardworking and driven and all that

00:38:59 So, I mean that's that's not been too bad. Um working with her as an adult, which has only been within the last three years really

00:39:06 But but personal wise I mean we go I mean we have holidays together and things like that and

00:39:12 uh, but they have no interest in really seeing their grandchildren, which

00:39:17 I'm, the youngest of five. They have seven other grandchildren

00:39:20 And so again, i'm not trying to make excuses for them

00:39:23 But in my mind and my dad's even made like half joking comments like oh i've already had seven grandkids. That's enough

00:39:29 and and just not interested in seeing them or spending time with them, which

00:39:32 Uh, again, i've just i've stopped trying to to make that happen and i'm just hoping my my kids will stop

00:39:39 You know, I don't know ask ask about them less

00:39:42 why

00:39:43 Are you and I can hold off on my question if if you're mid mid thought or I i'm totally fine

00:39:49 Have you finished? Well, one other thing i'll say is they're my wife's parents

00:39:53 uh

00:39:54 They again they live in poland

00:39:56 We go there a couple times a year for for them to see them and for her to see her family, of course

00:40:00 and

00:40:01 They're just so happy every time they have jobs as well and you know, they work a lot

00:40:05 but every time we're there they watch them like

00:40:08 They they want to be with them the whole time. We're there with whether it's two weeks or not

00:40:11 They want them the whole time. Uh, and and so one time when you know, I asked my dad

00:40:16 Hey, do you want to go to this trampoline park with us? And oh, no, I don't I don't feel like it

00:40:21 And I made the comments to me. I said, you know

00:40:24 uh

00:40:25 her her parents

00:40:27 Have have watched them more spent more time with them than you guys have and they and they live an ocean away

00:40:31 And you live 10 minutes away

00:40:33 well

00:40:34 Well, we have jobs and we'll so to her parent and then he's got mad and hung up and uh,

00:40:38 Wait, he hung up on you when you had some criticism

00:40:42 correct

00:40:44 Holy crap, I said anyway, so go ahead

00:40:47 Well, I just I just wanted to point that out. Uh, I mean her parents they're very they're nice and

00:40:53 Uh, and all that they love seeing them, but my parents have no interest

00:40:56 What does your wife say about your parents?

00:41:00 Oh

00:41:05 In what sense and in this in this specific sense or gen? No, I mean just as an old what does she think about them?

00:41:11 Uh and your relationship with them and their relationship with her children and so on

00:41:15 uh

00:41:18 He thinks it's a she she does not

00:41:21 Understand why they don't want to spend time with their grandchildren

00:41:24 um, you know poland is more traditional and

00:41:28 My parents are I mean my family is more traditional than most again

00:41:32 I was home school and raised in the middle of nowhere and all of that

00:41:35 um, so it's kind of odd but yeah, but her parents are poland's way more traditional and and she's like

00:41:40 well, I don't understand why I don't want they don't want to see their grandchildren and you know, they clearly love them and

00:41:45 Uh, yeah, I mean you get to make time for your family and things like that. So boomer templates, you know

00:41:51 Yeah, exactly

00:41:52 it's it's

00:41:53 and i'll even tell my mom I said listen because she

00:41:56 Now she kind of manages all the properties we own which is quite a few. I mean we have

00:42:00 about 130 different units across a few different like bigger properties together and then my parents

00:42:07 on their own have about

00:42:10 47 others and so it's it's a it's definitely a full-time job and I and I told her because I manage

00:42:15 You know, I own and manage over, you know about 2700

00:42:20 and

00:42:21 I told her I said listen, I said I can just hire somebody just to do the stuff that we have and it's all local

00:42:26 It's all you know in the in the in the within in, you know, 40 minutes of where we live

00:42:30 And she says oh no, I like doing it

00:42:33 It's no it's not that big a deal and and but then that's the excuse she's is like, oh no, we have jobs

00:42:37 We can't we can't spend time with them. And so it's like well to say you don't want to spend time with them

00:42:41 and I haven't told them that but

00:42:43 It's oh, no, we love them. Oh, well, okay. Well, what do you say that but then show it?

00:42:48 Uh, it's it's it's confusing to me and then my wife is has the same

00:42:52 Uh opinion again, maybe maybe I should just embrace this like, okay great. Well, they you know, they they hit me as a child. So

00:42:59 so it's good that they don't want to see their grandchildren because I don't want them to hit them, but

00:43:04 I I don't know

00:43:06 Again I don't want to interrupt so

00:43:10 No, that's that's that's my full thought at the moment

00:43:14 Okay, my my jaw is kind of on the floor as a whole because i'm really having a tough time processing what you're saying

00:43:19 It could be my limitation completely. So bear with me as I try and understand this this situation

00:43:25 Uh, what what's your age range? Are you in your 30s 20s?

00:43:29 28 28. Okay

00:43:32 Okay

00:43:33 I mean, so you um, when did you move out from home? What age were you?

00:43:37 I think 21 or 22 I had purchased

00:43:43 an office and I just lived in one of the rooms because

00:43:46 You know, I like the personal freedom and not being in my parents house. Um, just because they're they're very

00:43:53 Intrusive in a lot of ways

00:43:56 So

00:44:00 What what do you want?

00:44:02 Yeah, that's not one of the things I just the more I think about the more messed up it gets

00:44:06 The well then then you're joining me on my confusion, but go ahead

00:44:12 Sure. Well, my I I really feel like

00:44:15 I mean, I feel it's about work. I'm from my experience

00:44:19 My parents have never respected me

00:44:22 up until they very barely now respect me in the business sense just because of

00:44:28 Seeing success and me helping them

00:44:31 get success

00:44:33 But they have never respected me

00:44:36 In any way outside again limited in business so one example that was incredibly embarrassing for me was

00:44:43 Yeah, I had very few

00:44:46 friends

00:44:48 growing up

00:44:49 my only

00:44:51 The only place I could see people would be like church or I they did I was in martial arts and that was nice

00:44:57 And so I had a limited but it was mostly older kids. So I just had very limited interactions with with people my age

00:45:04 Uh, and i'm pretty introverted. So I know that's mostly genetic, but I do think part of part of it was just my upbringing

00:45:10 and so one night I had

00:45:12 I had one friend that I met from from work, but we were we were friends

00:45:16 And he had a friend that he had

00:45:19 How old were you here? Oh, this was like, oh, that was 25 maybe like 3 or 24 a few years ago

00:45:24 um

00:45:26 Maybe not even that far. It was it was like maybe three years ago because my firstborn was was already alive. So

00:45:30 so, uh

00:45:33 my wife my friend his friend and I are all watching a movie at my house and

00:45:37 This was this was one of maybe

00:45:40 Well, maybe less than

00:45:43 Seven times my parents had agreed to watch

00:45:45 my one child

00:45:47 Again, I live seven minutes away, but again, I'm not obligated for that. They're obligated to watch my kid, but they agreed to

00:45:51 so so i'm at

00:45:54 uh, i'm

00:45:57 We're watching a movie in my house

00:46:00 I don't have my phone on it's on silent because you know, so we watch the movie we're sitting around we're talking for like

00:46:05 It couldn't have been longer than half an hour after the movie was over and it was only like 9 9 9 30

00:46:11 I wasn't super late

00:46:13 and my dad

00:46:15 Comes to that comes to my house

00:46:18 he

00:46:22 He knew the code because he was the same code I had at my office to get in my house

00:46:27 He comes in my house again. I have guests over he doesn't even know

00:46:30 And he starts yelling at me in front of these people

00:46:34 What is wrong with you? I have been trying to call you and we have your son

00:46:39 And you're you haven't come and picked them up yet

00:46:42 And he just just went on and on just free like yelling at me

00:46:46 Uh in front of in my own house

00:46:49 He comes in my house and just screaming at me in front of people doesn't even know

00:46:52 It was just it just was so

00:46:54 embarrassing for me

00:46:57 and and I

00:46:58 Am i'm sure because of this like that never happened again. We never had any

00:47:02 Like they just never materialized after that any of these friends coming over to watch a movie after

00:47:07 And I probably what happens when he did that

00:47:12 I went outside

00:47:17 and

00:47:19 I talked to him and I was I was upset. I was like don't yell at me

00:47:22 Okay, don't yell at me in my house. And I said it's not that late. My phone was on silent. What's the big deal?

00:47:29 We're not we're not we're not watching him all night. Oh, you should have already come to get him

00:47:34 and and so I I left and got him and then they left and and

00:47:38 uh

00:47:41 you know, it's like my

00:47:43 My dad, it's not funny my dad

00:47:45 I think he truly believes because he'll say it like he's joking

00:47:48 But when you press him, he actually means that he's never wrong

00:47:51 He's never wrong. Whatever he said. He's always in the right and he's he's the greatest person in the world

00:47:54 and

00:47:56 The only times he's ever apologized are when my mother will guilt him into it

00:48:00 And so like afterwards

00:48:03 Like maybe the next day I called my mother said what what was that about?

00:48:07 and

00:48:08 And oh, well, you know, he was upset because I said, you know, that was just it was awful

00:48:12 It's such an awful experience

00:48:14 And then he called me like well, sorry for doing that

00:48:17 Uh, you know, that was inappropriate, but you really should have got him. Uh, you know, you should have got him

00:48:21 Yeah, sorry, but it's never sorry. Yeah, exactly and and and

00:48:25 Yeah

00:48:28 Yeah, so that's that story and again as I think through things

00:48:31 I know my mother has a tendency to behind the scenes kind of go with my father on

00:48:35 So it could have been a situation where she said it's already this time and they're not she's not back yet

00:48:40 I mean, that's that's really not right and he can tell you listening to you imitate your parents. It's really quite eerie

00:48:46 So you have so accurate yes, okay, so it's it's yeah, but we've had the similar experiences

00:48:52 It's funny because i'm you know

00:48:57 I'm wiping tears from my eyes because I was at the eye doctor earlier

00:48:59 They put this yellow solution to look for defects and so i'm crying yellow streams like i'm some anime character or something

00:49:06 Wow, eye urine is achieved. Okay. Yeah or urine. Yes, exactly. We're urine

00:49:11 All right. Is there more that you want to say?

00:49:15 I

00:49:17 Don't know

00:49:19 But that's that's the extent of interactions i've had with my parents that that come to mind

00:49:26 okay

00:49:28 now listen, i'm i'm not trying to interrupt you or stop you I just

00:49:30 Sure. I have some thoughts or questions, but um, I want to make sure that uh,

00:49:36 You've got what you need to off your chest at least at the moment

00:49:38 Sure. No. Yeah. Yes I have and I appreciate that. Yeah, I will I will

00:49:43 If I accidentally after I apologize, um, no, no, listen, you're not doing anything wrong

00:49:48 I I want to hear and I I don't want to interrupt and I don't want my questions to shoulder aside your

00:49:53 Side of the conversation because this show is about you, right?

00:49:56 Sure. Well, I appreciate that. Yes. I don't have any other thoughts at the moment. I'd love to hear your your thoughts

00:50:01 Oh, no, it's a question

00:50:03 So what is it that you're looking for from your parents at the moment?

00:50:07 You

00:50:09 I think family is important

00:50:17 Like if there's any objective

00:50:21 Or one of maybe a couple objective things it is

00:50:26 To have children and to raise them in a loving way

00:50:29 And I think or part of that ideally would have extended family that also loves them and they get to see so it's not just mom

00:50:36 and dad and of course obviously

00:50:38 Okay, not not your sentimentality and ideas and abstracts and wouldn't it be nice if your actual parents

00:50:44 Not not the ones in your head that are great grandparents or whatever you're talking about here your actual

00:50:50 flesh and blood

00:50:52 empirical evidence 28 years parents

00:50:54 I guess it's like when i'm with them if i'm with them when my kids are around which is almost every time

00:51:00 Because I never want to watch they never want to see them

00:51:04 uh, they're typically nice and they'll talk to them or play with them some and

00:51:08 and so it's

00:51:11 I don't know if it's a biological thing or what but then they'll ask for them later on and of course they do the same

00:51:16 Thing with their babysitter. So maybe it's just they there's someone that's giving them attention. So they like them but

00:51:20 they like them and

00:51:23 I think it would be good if they had a healthy relationship with their grandparents

00:51:27 But I don't know if that's possible

00:51:29 But that's that's at least the the idea I have in my mind. What would be good if they have a relationship with them?

00:51:34 So here's why i'm asking

00:51:36 sure

00:51:38 My question way back at the beginning was why doesn't your son listen to you? Yes

00:51:44 Would you like to know why I would like to know why because he looks at you as low status

00:51:55 So he looks at you that look he gave you before he went out that's him processing your status

00:52:00 You really think that he can comprehend oh absolutely

00:52:07 Yeah, abs is one of the first things that I mean, you know the pecking order your your siblings are going through it right now

00:52:13 Pecking order is one of the first things that kids try and figure out

00:52:18 Okay

00:52:21 So your son looks at you

00:52:24 As low status

00:52:26 In some ways i'm not saying of course in every way or fundamentally and I could be wrong about this

00:52:31 I'll just tell you sort of my my reasoning behind it

00:52:34 If

00:52:38 I don't know. Who's who's your son's biggest hero? Who's his biggest like is it a transformer?

00:52:43 Is it I don't know like what what who is his son's he was treasured person

00:52:48 Out of the family role, but we've cut and we very rarely let him watch any type of

00:52:54 media

00:52:56 Uh, he liked paw patrol, but we've kind of secretly gotten rid of the paw patrol

00:52:59 toys and things like that and he hasn't really asked about it because

00:53:03 the the

00:53:05 producers hired a tranny and

00:53:08 As one of the producers and so I that that did not sit well with me. So that ended

00:53:12 Okay, so, uh

00:53:15 If he doesn't have any particular kind of hero like for me when I was a kid, uh, superman was was high status for me

00:53:22 Right. So if you imagine if superman had come down when I was a three-year-old and said don't open that door son

00:53:29 Right. What would I do?

00:53:31 You wouldn't open the door. I wouldn't open the door because he's super high status

00:53:35 And so i'm just talking about my parenting here and I think it translates. So let me know I have uh been very

00:53:44 Estudious i've been very assiduous

00:53:47 In making sure my daughter does not see me

00:53:51 in low status situations

00:53:54 Because when I say to my daughter stop I want her to stop

00:54:00 Not because she's obeying me in some sort of fundamental way

00:54:04 But it's out of respect

00:54:07 Yes

00:54:09 Now when a son has trouble listening to his father

00:54:14 At that age in my view. It's almost always a status issue

00:54:18 Okay

00:54:21 So my next question was going to be and I guess you've answered it is does your

00:54:26 Son see you around your parents

00:54:30 And of course he does as you say, they don't really spend much time with your your kids on their own

00:54:36 So you both of your sons see you around your parents, right?

00:54:39 Yes

00:54:42 Did you you said your son was born when?

00:54:45 Your father came in and yelled at you, right?

00:54:48 He was asleep. Well, no, he wasn't asleep. He was with them at the time

00:54:51 Um, so he left him at my parents house when he came to yell at me because he only lived seven minutes away

00:54:56 Right. So without a doubt and how old was your son at this point?

00:55:00 Oh, he would have been a little bit six months old, right? Okay

00:55:04 And how often do your kids spend time with your parents when you're not around?

00:55:11 I

00:55:13 When i'm not around I mean very infrequently maybe

00:55:17 Maybe once every couple months maybe

00:55:23 And

00:55:26 Are there any signs if you were to be looking at it like an anthropologist, right?

00:55:31 Because that's what kids are they're anthropologists of the social environment, right?

00:55:35 And the reason that kids need to figure out status is they need to know

00:55:40 How assertive or aggressive they can be?

00:55:42 Sure, uh because if you if your father is very low status

00:55:48 That that's going to have you have like I mean, let's take a still a sort of severe example from history

00:55:54 If your father is a king

00:55:56 You end up acting one way if your father is a slave you end up acting another way

00:56:01 Does this as a kid does it like you have to figure out where your father is in the packing order?

00:56:04 Sure now

00:56:07 When your parents are around

00:56:09 Does your son see any indication that they have low or no respect for you or negative contempt for you?

00:56:18 I'm sure i'm certain they've seen I mean because again, it would be like holidays where or they're

00:56:25 It could be talking down to me or arguing with me or or or

00:56:30 My dad again, he'll he'll

00:56:34 Belittle me and so i'm sure your your sons are seeing you pushed around bullied and belittled and taking it

00:56:41 And asking them back for more

00:56:44 And then you wonder why your son looks at you and says oh man, I don't have to listen to this guy

00:57:00 You can't let your children see you in a low status situation because then they don't respect you as an authority figure

00:57:07 Because that was my first question and look I mean i've obviously been imperfect as a parent

00:57:20 So this i'm not trying to lord it over but my daughter if I say stop she'll stop

00:57:25 Sure, and she always has

00:57:29 Now of course she disagrees with me and i'm far from perfect as a parent but

00:57:33 As far as that goes she does respect that I have status and authority

00:57:38 Because I don't let myself be in situations where people bully me

00:57:45 Sure

00:57:46 And that's why I don't

00:57:48 Okay, wait, wait, so we're not connecting at some emotional level here because you're still in abstract land

00:57:53 Okay

00:57:55 So do you see what I mean? Like you have presented yourself

00:58:00 as

00:58:02 A person to be disrespected held in contempt and bullied by your village elders

00:58:08 in front of your sons

00:58:11 How do you feel about that

00:58:15 How do I feel about them doing it to me or me allowing my son to see

00:58:19 Well, we already know how you feel about them doing it to you but the effect it has on your sons

00:58:28 Not good, do you want to know why your eldest boy is pushing and hitting your baby

00:58:35 Because he sees my father

00:58:39 Verbally doing it to me

00:58:42 Because children especially sons who do they model themselves after in any social environment? Who do they?

00:58:48 Try to emulate who do they try to become?

00:58:50 The alpha male. Yeah, the most powerful person in the environment is who they will

00:58:55 be so your

00:58:58 Father is parenting your children in some ways even more than you are

00:59:01 You think even

00:59:06 again, let's say

00:59:07 Once every couple months seeing them that is enough to have that big of an impact on them

00:59:12 Sorry, I thought that it was only once every couple of months that they saw them alone

00:59:16 No, that's correct and

00:59:20 I guess I yeah, I probably see them then we see each other maybe a couple times a month very like we'll go out to

00:59:25 Lunch if they're oh, that's absolutely that absolutely is more than enough

00:59:28 Okay

00:59:30 And you do holidays, right?

00:59:32 Yes

00:59:34 And your son though, he may not understand all of the words so he probably understands a bunch

00:59:39 He is probably hears you complaining about your parents probably hears you on the phone begging them to see the kids or

00:59:45 Even if it's in another room, he can hear the tone. So he hears you pleading

00:59:49 And being low status

00:59:54 Yes, that's that's great

00:59:56 I mean I had a call with a guy years ago

01:00:02 Who was a dog owner whose dogs?

01:00:05 Were perfectly well behaved except once he was at his father's place. His father yelled at him

01:00:10 He put up with it and his dogs bit him on the way home

01:00:13 Wow, it's wild that one interaction one internet witness. Yeah, and that's a dog brain not a human brain

01:00:21 Right

01:00:23 Yeah, you can't afford low status as a parent yes

01:00:31 So why are you trying to make the people rich who beat you 2,500 times

01:00:40 That's what i'm trying to figure out what do you want like what are you trying to get from your parents that you're like

01:00:46 Well, it's true. You beat me. You hold me in contempt. You put me down you yell at me you humiliate me

01:00:51 But hey, uh, maybe I could make you all millionaires. Yeah, which is what the hell is going on

01:00:57 Yeah

01:01:00 Maybe it's uh, I mean i'm no no don't maybe me. No, don't maybe you know what the answer to this is

01:01:06 Don't don't fog me bro. What is the answer? What are you trying to do? I'm trying to get here

01:01:10 If I make them respect me, yeah make them respect me

01:01:15 or

01:01:17 Take me seriously

01:01:18 So your parents are bribeable you bribe them into liking you or respecting you. Is that right?

01:01:23 Well clearly with business that worked

01:01:26 Well by that, I mean you're being sarcastic right because it didn't work, right

01:01:30 Hmm no, no, well, I mean well my mother she she does respect me in business my dad still still doesn't really

01:01:40 well, I thought you had this whole thing that the

01:01:43 Your dad tells you what to do when you've had seven years of experience and he's new to the field

01:01:47 Correct, correct. I mean haven't you just got a whole speech about how your father doesn't respect you even though you make them rich

01:01:53 That's correct. That's correct. Okay, so that doesn't work, right?

01:01:56 correct

01:01:59 Well, you know worked on my mother, but my father hasn't changed

01:02:01 My mom does no no

01:02:04 Stop separating your parents

01:02:06 Right. This is good cop bad cop stuff. Nice parent. Not so nice parent

01:02:11 Okay, right your mother

01:02:13 Is happy to remain married to and support and claim to love a guy who humiliates her adult child

01:02:22 Now she may say well you got to apologize or whatever but nothing fundamental is changing right

01:02:29 No, so there's no there's no good guy in there. Yeah

01:02:33 And I remember like even after

01:02:39 I thought I got through at least my father

01:02:41 About the whole circumcision question and showing him your video and all of that and he was like, oh god, this is awful

01:02:48 And explaining the you know, they sell it to cosmetics companies and it's extremely painful for the child all this stuff

01:02:53 But he would at least say yeah, that was a mistake

01:02:56 and and then

01:02:58 I probably asked him. I said if if he had an added child the other son, would you would you circumcise him?

01:03:02 Oh, of course I would yeah

01:03:04 No hesitation

01:03:06 Okay, so he's he's being very clear that it doesn't matter how much information gets passed. It doesn't matter what emotional connection he has

01:03:12 He's never going to change right

01:03:15 Right. Is it good?

01:03:18 For your children. Is it good for your sons for you to be?

01:03:21 Humiliated by your father. No

01:03:24 Is it good for your wife to watch you get humiliated by your father?

01:03:28 No

01:03:31 Is it good for you to be humiliated by your father?

01:03:35 No, so what are you doing?

01:03:37 Yes, you do what are you doing what am I doing i'm

01:03:46 Trying to get their love or respect that I never got

01:03:52 Well, I mean

01:03:56 You're a smart guy. Obviously a very competent very able businessman a dedicated parent a good husband

01:04:01 You seemed like a great guy to me

01:04:05 So you're not stupid right? Yeah, so what are you doing?

01:04:09 Because the idea that after 28 years you're going to try and get the love of people who'd never admit fault

01:04:16 Who holds you in contempt who regularly humiliate you who beat you 2500 times as a child?

01:04:22 And you'll be like they're turning the corner any any moment now

01:04:25 Yeah, you know, what are you doing? Yeah

01:04:34 What comes to mind is

01:04:36 I don't outside of work. I really don't have any

01:04:40 people that

01:04:42 I consider friends

01:04:44 And you know why that is

01:04:47 Because no one respects me

01:04:49 Because you're being crushed and humiliated by your father and you will be going into your fourth decade

01:04:55 Yeah

01:05:02 Does your father bully anyone in power or anyone does he bully cops if he gets pulled over does he bully

01:05:07 Waiters to see is he a general bully or is it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah

01:05:11 He my my my mother will say that my father brings out the worst in people. He is so horrible their fault, right?

01:05:19 Yeah, it's their well, I mean

01:05:21 I don't know what she means by that driving

01:05:23 She she does blame him, but I don't know why what she phrases it that way

01:05:27 But no like he will get people screaming upset

01:05:31 Or just be so awful to people in just random situations like cashiers or waitresses or waiters

01:05:37 or even

01:05:40 like

01:05:41 one quick example, I have a cpa that

01:05:43 that I use and he's very is very specific to this industry and

01:05:50 So I

01:05:53 Recommended my parents to them. But before I did so I called the guy and I said listen if you have any

01:05:58 bad experiences with

01:06:01 My parents, please don't hold it against me

01:06:05 Uh because I know how my dad can be and of course, I mean

01:06:09 Literally the last interaction I had with my father he's like, you know

01:06:13 I tried to get this this financial document from him and he he wasn't getting back to me promptly

01:06:18 So I left him a very scathing voicemail and then he he got it to me. Yeah, wait

01:06:22 Sorry, you recommended that somebody work with your father

01:06:26 Is this an enemy if you're sorry i'm trying to follow this this part of the story

01:06:32 No, no, it's not and and is he a friend

01:06:36 He's he's a guy that I like and that does good work. And so that was a very that was a mistake

01:06:43 Good lord, man, what are you doing? Why would you want to sick?

01:06:48 Your child abuser on an accountant

01:06:50 Oh, yeah

01:06:54 That's not funny but the way you phrase that made me laugh, um, oh lord that was a that was a big mistake

01:07:01 Okay, so so so why did you do that? Right? We can say a mistake but that doesn't mean anything

01:07:07 Why trying to help?

01:07:10 Trying to help my parents

01:07:13 And i'm not even opposed to like cutting people out of my life that are family

01:07:17 I have

01:07:19 Within the last year done that to one of my sisters

01:07:22 And

01:07:26 Also convinced my parents to do the same with her. Uh, and so i'm not even why did you do that?

01:07:32 Among other things the last straw

01:07:37 Was she tried to get my brother other brother killed and i'm not exaggerating

01:07:44 She called the police. I'm still trying to figure out this good childhood. We started with but okay

01:07:49 I'm, i'll get with you down this road. What happened? All right, maybe not so good

01:07:53 uh, you know, I guess it always seems nicer. I don't know whether but so

01:07:56 the

01:07:59 My sister is a chronic, uh, you know, she's alcoholic drug user just

01:08:03 very

01:08:05 unstable person and

01:08:07 Oh

01:08:09 She she called

01:08:11 the police in the middle of the night, she was mad at my other brother over

01:08:16 I don't even really know what and my other brother he has issues as well, but

01:08:20 She called the police on him the middle of the night told the police that

01:08:25 He had kidnapped

01:08:27 Women and was holding them captive that he was selling cocaine and that he had a gun

01:08:34 So so she swatted your brother and tried to get him killed. Yes. Yes, and they came literally guns drawn to his apartment

01:08:40 uh, and

01:08:43 I mean, she said he kidnapped women and kept them in an apartment

01:08:45 Not even a basement like in the middle of nowhere. No, no in his apartment

01:08:50 Yeah, all right, this is what she told the police and hey believe all women and then you know multiple cop cars come to my

01:08:57 Brother, no, no the cops have to go. It's not believe all women, right? That's why for sure for sure

01:09:02 I mean it just sounds so ridiculous. What would he?

01:09:04 Would be yes. Yes, correct

01:09:07 and so

01:09:09 And then she did something

01:09:11 similar to my parents

01:09:13 And also attempted to do that to me

01:09:15 and

01:09:17 You know, again, all this stuff is starting to come back to my mind as as we're having this conversation

01:09:21 uh, my my

01:09:24 And so so as a result of that I completely cut her out of my life. I refuse to ever have anything to do with her

01:09:28 ever again

01:09:29 um, and uh, my parents, sorry, uh, are you blaming

01:09:32 Are you holding your sister infinitely more responsible than your parents who raised her

01:09:39 Yes, clearly yes, I shouldn't be but yes you what you're that that is correct

01:09:45 Can you help me understand the logic of this

01:09:55 I mean you cut your sister out who of course did a terrible thing or i'm sure many many terrible things

01:10:00 But you're making your parents who raised her and I assume abused her as well. You're making them rich

01:10:06 Bro, what are you doing? I get them. I feel like i'm in a a laundromat here

01:10:11 Just round and round and up and down and like oh my god, what's happening?

01:10:14 Yeah

01:10:17 I see the I see the uh the disconnect and the logical disconnect and I don't I don't have a good answer

01:10:26 for that

01:10:27 Uh, okay. Give me a bad answer. Give me any answer. I'm i'm fine with that, too

01:10:32 I don't have many quote unquote close relationships and the idea of never talking to

01:10:48 My parents again is upsetting

01:10:53 Like outside well, I mean outside of many things like if we're talking about just I don't know my dad likes karaoke

01:10:58 I kind of like karaoke. It's fun. Sometimes

01:11:01 we'll talk about that or something and that's enjoyable or

01:11:05 or my mother again, she she uh

01:11:08 She really enjoys the work and I love what I do as well and so we'll talk about that and that's that's fun I guess and

01:11:18 So and I guess the sentimentality of oh your parents was again i've had I had no problem at all cutting out my sister and I

01:11:24 tried

01:11:25 like oh gosh over a decade ago to get them to do this because

01:11:29 She had a child when she was she got pregnant when she was 16 and my parents

01:11:33 ended up having to adopt him because she got

01:11:37 She got married divorced married again the second guy was abusing the child extremely like very intensely

01:11:44 And they had to fight they got custody

01:11:47 And I was so happy and then they were bringing her around like not even six months after that after that whole ordeal like legal battle

01:11:53 But what happened to your sister as a child?

01:11:56 I don't know anything other than then we were raised in the same house. We were all homeschooled

01:12:04 and all I can the only thing that was

01:12:07 Okay, so I was I was youngest of five

01:12:11 The two oldest are the oldest is like 16 years older than me

01:12:14 My other sister's like 12 years older than me and then i'm like two years apart from my other two siblings

01:12:19 So I was closer with them

01:12:21 um

01:12:22 they

01:12:24 They

01:12:26 Met other

01:12:28 like teenagers like 13 when they're like 13 14 from this homeschool co-op we would go to like once a month and

01:12:34 uh hung out with them more and they started like smoking weed and

01:12:39 uh when I was

01:12:41 like nine or ten

01:12:42 they

01:12:43 uh

01:12:45 I I was I smoked weed with them for about a year

01:12:48 Uh and

01:12:52 They they both got caught doing it and I saw my parents disappointment

01:12:56 How about my parents doing it?

01:12:59 and uh, I

01:13:01 I saw how much he disappointed them

01:13:03 So I admitted it to my dad and told him I would never do it again and I never did it again

01:13:07 um

01:13:09 At least up until about a couple years ago. I did it but uh

01:13:13 or about about four years ago, um, but

01:13:16 But what i'm getting at is the only thing I can think of that was

01:13:20 Significantly different was they were around

01:13:23 You know not good friend influences and my parents were oblivious or just didn't care

01:13:30 Yeah, that's not enough

01:13:33 So, I don't know I really don't know yeah, that's that's not enough

01:13:39 You mean for them to be that different my sister? Yeah, that's not enough. Well, what would you

01:13:44 Uh, i'm really trying to think

01:13:47 No, look everyone gets exposed to bad friends I did you did everyone gets exposed to bad friends

01:13:57 I mean, can it just be a genetic screw-up?

01:14:00 That's why I always thought

01:14:05 Because my oldest brother were very similar. We're both

01:14:07 You know very similar interests similar work ethics similar business really and uh, like and then my other

01:14:15 The two siblings closest to me. They're they're really different and my oldest sister just has never really done anything

01:14:20 But she's just nice and that's that's the extent of it

01:14:22 So are you saying that some people are just genetically susceptible to teen pregnancies and drug addiction

01:14:34 Well, they absolutely are

01:14:37 You

01:14:39 I'm sorry, is that I mean maybe that's been studied and i'm not aware

01:14:48 that addiction genes have been discovered and

01:14:51 Yeah, there's alcoholism is is uh, you're predisposed to different things

01:14:56 uh, and obviously within among races, you know different races have different levels of uh, teen pregnancy

01:15:04 Drug use and and uh criminality and everything else. And so that's definitely a genetic thing. And so within

01:15:09 Races, it would know but there are different races different IQs as well. So I mean

01:15:13 Right, so I don't know has there I mean maybe there has been I know that people say that there's a you know

01:15:20 genetic susceptibility to alcoholism and that may be the case with

01:15:23 natives or the indigenous population of north america, but

01:15:26 A gene for addiction that

01:15:32 Strips free will is that right?

01:15:34 No, definitely not just more impulsiveness or you know shorter time horizon

01:15:41 Okay, uh, do you have any other addicts in the family

01:15:47 My grandfather who I never met

01:15:51 I talked to him once on the phone, but he was a big alcoholic and he severely

01:15:56 Then you know the cycle of abuse that continues on he

01:16:00 Severely would beat my dad according to him

01:16:03 And then you know, it's funny how I think about that

01:16:05 He would tell me how awful this was but then he would do the same thing to me

01:16:08 but yeah, he would say

01:16:10 that he just was just off he'd get drunk and just beat them for no reason and

01:16:14 uh

01:16:16 my grandmother who again she was

01:16:18 also terrible, honestly, like again, i'm not i'm never going to exclude women because uh,

01:16:22 they're usually equally to blame if not more but

01:16:25 uh, she

01:16:27 She eventually left him and then got with a bunch of other men that who also beat them and everything else. So

01:16:32 um, so yeah that

01:16:34 He was an alcoholic

01:16:37 My brother the one that she tried to get killed

01:16:40 uh is

01:16:42 uh

01:16:44 He's been on different drugs throughout his life and

01:16:46 Sorry been on jimmy like prescribed or he takes no, I don't even quite know I know cocaine was one of them weed which

01:16:57 Is okay, so he takes drugs. I just wanted to know if it was like

01:16:59 Painkillers for whatever well that that too at one point. I think that uh,

01:17:04 That may be the main one even I don't know. I really don't know

01:17:07 And that's upsetting too because I do

01:17:12 My brother and I have had mostly good relationship that this one the one that's closest in age to me and

01:17:17 Of course one who laughs at circumcision effects. No different one different one. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Yeah

01:17:24 He's he's totally on board with that. Like he he at first was resistant like most men that have been circumcised

01:17:29 Oh, no, it's cleaner women prefer it. And then when I showed him the stuff he was totally on board

01:17:33 He was like, this is so awful. I can't believe that our dad did this to us or you know

01:17:37 And it's it's my parents will always blame each other and then neither one it takes accountability

01:17:43 Well your mother. Okay, let's go. Sorry

01:17:46 I mean, I can't really stomach more negative talk about your parents because i've got your complete picture

01:17:51 Okay, so with regards to your sister, obviously, I don't know my first guess would be based upon

01:17:56 You know, i've talked to a lot of addiction experts and done shows and all this kind of stuff

01:17:59 Bombing the brain. Yeah, so my my guess would be something like this. So

01:18:04 Everybody handles pain

01:18:08 in a different way

01:18:10 There's some people become workaholics

01:18:12 Uh, some people drink some people do drugs some people get addicted to video games, uh to to numb themselves

01:18:18 uh, some people become

01:18:20 Sex addicts, uh, and and some people go for high status

01:18:24 Even going into debt to get it some people gamble to feel better

01:18:27 About themselves and give them something else to worry about there's lots of different ways that people deal with pain, right?

01:18:32 Now maybe there is a genetic susceptibility to dealing with pain one way or another

01:18:39 Sure, right. So so maybe I mean, I don't know but my guess would be maybe that your sister had

01:18:45 a susceptibility to

01:18:50 Dealing with pain by taking drugs

01:18:52 I mean i've tried alcohol, of course like most people have and

01:18:57 I you know, I don't really certainly getting drunk is is no fun. I mean for me obviously some people like it

01:19:04 But I I don't right so I don't have but the question is not

01:19:09 The question is not

01:19:14 Is there a gene for drug addiction? The question is is there a gene?

01:19:18 That makes people more likely to use drugs to deal with personal agony

01:19:23 My question is where the fuck is the personal agony coming from?

01:19:27 Like why does she need to self-medicate

01:19:32 To that degree now again everybody's self-medication might be different right sure well, so she was already

01:19:41 Doing these sorts of things and certainly smoking weed and I don't really know all but else and having sex and she claimed

01:19:49 that

01:19:50 She told me that she was raped

01:19:52 by a guy

01:19:55 that was a

01:19:57 friend of my brother's when she was like 15

01:19:59 and

01:20:01 Okay. So why why why you give them all this genetic stuff?

01:20:04 Well that just came to mind and part of the reason why I didn't think of that at first is

01:20:10 She has falsely accused a lot of other guys of rape

01:20:17 including

01:20:18 Including my father as an adult and this was in a situation where I was in the room with both of them

01:20:22 So I know she just makes stuff up. So sorry. I'm not sure what you mean. She accused your father of

01:20:27 Appropriately touching her or like grabbing her or assaulting her

01:20:32 And then calling the police

01:20:34 This is when she lived with my parents when i'm still living at home when we were teenagers

01:20:37 and the police would come out and talk to all of us and then they just leave because

01:20:41 It's all nonsense. She was just angry at my dad for

01:20:44 Maybe legitimate reasons, but that was her response

01:20:47 um

01:20:48 So you think that her claims of having been raped when she was 15 are false?

01:20:53 I never I always believed her up until

01:20:56 She started making false accusations

01:21:00 of of that nature and then other false accusations against me as well and against other people in my family and against other people we know

01:21:08 just and it was like drug again, i'm not making excuses at all, but

01:21:11 It would almost feel like she'd get high and then just start making these false police reports

01:21:15 Which again you have to be I mean, it's very detailed. So I don't even oh no listen to I mean

01:21:19 that's obviously terrible behavior and

01:21:21 To be false accusations. You should get the same jail time as

01:21:24 All right, I get all of that

01:21:27 But at the beginning

01:21:30 Yeah

01:21:31 Right. It's certainly I mean it's possible I suppose

01:21:33 That she was raped

01:21:36 And then the drug addiction the false like it all kind of snowballed out of that

01:21:41 She was already smoking weed. I I think she was already

01:21:45 having sex prior to that and

01:21:48 I think at the time they were both drinking and so then later on who's they

01:21:54 This guy

01:21:56 That she says raped her and then her um, she told me they were okay. So, sorry

01:22:01 Are you saying that your sister was having sex?

01:22:04 And smoking drugs when she was 14

01:22:07 Yes

01:22:09 Now didn't you all live in the country?

01:22:11 Yes

01:22:14 So, how's it and you're home-schooled?

01:22:16 Yes

01:22:18 You know what? My next question is right?

01:22:20 Why would my parents allow this or how did how did they have to know?

01:22:23 They

01:22:27 We my parent my dad had

01:22:30 an office in town

01:22:33 And so your dad had what?

01:22:35 Oh an office in town. Sorry. Yeah an office in town

01:22:38 And there was like a basement that we used to go and like play video games because we had high-speed internet and stuff like that

01:22:44 and so

01:22:45 frequently

01:22:47 At least my closest in my age group brother and sister would go there and then these people would come over and they would do all

01:22:53 this these things and

01:22:55 Okay, so it's in the house

01:22:57 Well, this was it isn't an office like spend the night like not at home

01:23:01 But I mean, oh, okay. So hang on. Hang on

01:23:04 Are you saying that your parents would allow a 14 year old girl?

01:23:08 To be around all these skeevy guys

01:23:11 Yes, unsupervised in an office far from home over not overnight though. She wouldn't stay overnight. Would she overnight? Yes. Yeah

01:23:18 Oh, come on, man

01:23:20 No

01:23:22 So they're having co-ed sleepovers completely unsupervised

01:23:25 Yes

01:23:28 I mean, they're just feeding her to the lions

01:23:30 Yes

01:23:32 Am I wrong? No, you're exactly correct

01:23:35 Oh my god, I mean i'm beyond shocked

01:23:40 I've honestly like no, hang on. Let's pause a second here brother. Like i'm i'm beyond shocked. I mean, I got a 15 year old daughter, right?

01:23:47 I'm beyond shocked what on earth was going on?

01:23:55 I mean they've ruined that girl

01:24:07 You

01:24:09 In my opinion, I mean if i'm wrong tell me I agree and it's

01:24:16 And then why I keep why I go back to genetics is

01:24:21 it's

01:24:23 odd because my oldest two siblings

01:24:25 I'm sure they have trauma that they've just buried because we've never really talked about it, but

01:24:29 They're pretty they're normal. They're not alcoholics. They don't do drugs

01:24:34 They they're married. They have kids

01:24:36 and

01:24:38 They my parents were more

01:24:40 Supervisor, you know, they supervised the oldest two more according to them than they did the last three including myself

01:24:49 So, I don't know. What do we hang on dude? What are we talking about?

01:24:52 It's just lending me off this fucking family tree shit. Like we're just talking about

01:24:57 What happened with your sister? Yeah, I know i'm just going back to like I don't know. No, no

01:25:02 I don't want you to go back and abstractly trying to minimize your feelings here

01:25:06 I

01:25:08 I'm i'm trying to figure out what the hell is going on in this family. Yeah

01:25:14 I mean to try and put yourself in my shoes if you were hearing this cavalcade of horrors

01:25:27 For the first time what would you think if this was someone else's family and you were hearing?

01:25:34 these stories of alcoholism and beatings and child rape potentially and

01:25:39 Beating babies with belts and

01:25:44 Humiliation and aggression and scorn and contempt and violence and I mean, what would you what would you think if this was?

01:25:52 if you were hearing these

01:25:54 these stories

01:25:56 Is horrendous and unacceptable

01:26:02 Well, I know I don't know what you mean by unacceptable it's all happened

01:26:06 Yes, I mean if I shoot myself in the foot and then say it's unacceptable. What does that mean?

01:26:12 Well, it's inexcusable is what I mean

01:26:14 But you do excuse it. Not only do you excuse it you work very hard to reward it

01:26:20 Here's money here's expertise here's free business advice you pay

01:26:27 For it

01:26:32 Please spend more time with my children

01:26:35 What is going on

01:26:39 You

01:26:41 How do I

01:27:07 Take this information and

01:27:09 Make

01:27:13 No, no, no, I mean everybody does this sorry

01:27:16 This is so predictable is that you get an insight and how do you?

01:27:19 Destroy the emotions associated with the insight. Do you know what you're doing right now?

01:27:23 What do I do with this information

01:27:28 Right

01:27:31 Yeah, where we going? Well, no, I was I want to I the correct decision would be

01:27:37 Probably to completely cut them out

01:27:39 No, i'm not asking look. I don't care

01:27:41 I mean the decision I can't make for you and I don't know what the correct decision is

01:27:44 Right because we're just having a talk

01:27:46 But you're jumping straight from feeling to conclusion to action so you can avoid the feelings

01:27:54 I just don't know how to handle it. I've never

01:28:05 I've never been to

01:28:07 Any type of therapy or really talk this out other than no, no, no, no don't care. Don't care

01:28:12 No, because you already were emotional in this call, right? So you have you have the perfect capacity to access

01:28:19 Passionate emotions, right?

01:28:21 Yeah, you're right. So you don't need a therapist to feel

01:28:25 Sure, sure

01:28:27 I think and I again I say this with deep sympathy right there in the trenches with you brother

01:28:41 I think you're still terrified of your father

01:28:44 Any kind of boundaries and it makes perfect sense, I mean the guy beat you

01:28:52 2 000 times as a child

01:28:54 He still openly scorns mocks and humiliates. He's very aggressive punchy brings out the worst in people as your mother says, right?

01:29:00 It sounds almost demonic in a way, right? Yeah, right, but

01:29:04 He's a scary guy, right

01:29:08 And

01:29:11 And and a lot of social like around other people like he's so good at hiding

01:29:15 He's so friendly and nice and he just would never know it and then and wait

01:29:20 I thought you said he bullied a bunch of people

01:29:22 Well, yeah, I mean like around people that he respects I guess like people from church or things like that around people

01:29:28 He wants something from around people that he needs to impress. Yeah. I mean look you you can go and look up

01:29:34 The

01:29:37 Corrupt personality style that is superficially charming

01:29:40 You can go look that up and i'll let you draw your own conclusions out of that

01:29:43 But there is a personality style or personality

01:29:46 characteristic

01:29:48 or personality type

01:29:50 That is cold and manipulative and cruel but incredibly charming to strangers

01:29:55 How do I feel my way through the emotions of this because it still invokes this reaction whenever I really

01:30:08 Think about it and then go sorry which reaction mine

01:30:12 the

01:30:14 what what

01:30:16 Would happen as a child and then would I continue to let happen as an adult?

01:30:20 Well

01:30:24 You are a husband and a father

01:30:27 Now, of course that's a lot of responsibility

01:30:31 And yet it also takes a lot of responsibility off your plate because it's funny, you know with parenting

01:30:36 Everyone thinks that they all talk about all the responsibility that it puts on you

01:30:40 And yeah, but you know what it takes it takes a huge amount of responsibility off

01:30:45 You how

01:30:47 Well what you do in your life is no longer up to you

01:30:53 What do you live your life with great

01:30:57 You know, hopefully what's in the best interest of raising your children? Yeah, but what's what's good for your kids, right?

01:31:04 So it's out of your hands, right

01:31:08 That's a great look at you do what's best for your kids and that means moral clarity

01:31:15 Yeah, right

01:31:17 That's a great way to look at I've never i've never no it's not just a great way to look at it. It's what it is

01:31:23 Sure, sure

01:31:25 That is right. I mean, let me ask you this. How many dating apps that you want?

01:31:28 Zeroes, right, uh, how many times do you try and pick up girls when you're out?

01:31:34 Zero right, so you got married

01:31:41 And

01:31:42 You don't do that. It's not on the table. It's not what you do

01:31:45 So you don't have to worry you never have to worry about picking up a girl getting her number going on a date

01:31:49 Trying to right that's all done, right?

01:31:51 Because I mean you made a vow your marriage you love your wife

01:31:58 So that's not a thing right? You just so you say oh marriage is so restrictive

01:32:02 It's like well, yeah, but it also liberates you to not have to do any of that other stuff, right?

01:32:06 Sure

01:32:09 so

01:32:11 As far as your feelings and all of that super important very important to sort of process these feelings and so on

01:32:18 but

01:32:21 You want to know how to be a peaceful parent well to be a peaceful parent

01:32:25 Is to be respected

01:32:30 I mean you respect your wife, don't you?

01:32:35 Yes, if your wife says that outfit is not appropriate. What do you do?

01:32:40 Okay, you change your outfit. Of course you do right if you say to your wife, I don't think we can afford this

01:32:46 She'll probably listen, right? Yes

01:32:48 Respect is a whole lot

01:32:51 Simpler in a relationship because respect means the division of labor, right? Yes

01:32:56 I do philosophy

01:32:59 My dentist does dentistry and we trade right? Yes through the media of money. So if but if I didn't respect

01:33:06 My dentist or my dentist didn't respect me then we couldn't do business. So it's a

01:33:10 Respect is the foundation of the division of labor and efficiency in a relationship and where people have earned your respect

01:33:17 You should pay it right because we want to be just and fair

01:33:20 With these things you sort of this makes sense, right?

01:33:23 So to be a peaceful parent is to have your children respect you because when you respect someone

01:33:29 They don't need to be aggressive towards you. Does that make sense?

01:33:32 Yes, my my dentist doesn't need to yell at me

01:33:37 And say, you know, you really got to floss the back a little better, right?

01:33:41 Because I mean i'm one of like a thousand i'm one out of a thousand adults who still has his wisdom teeth, right?

01:33:46 Yeah, so

01:33:49 They're watching back there and making sure that i'm I got a little water pick and whatever it is that I use to

01:33:55 Clean back there and I go for my checkups every four months and like I just gotta

01:33:59 I don't want to get my wisdom teeth out. Thank you very much

01:34:02 So i'll just have to take care of them right? So because I respect my dentist and

01:34:07 You know, my dentist is great

01:34:09 She doesn't need to yell at me. She doesn't need to be aggressive. She doesn't need to threaten me

01:34:13 Doesn't need to bribe me. She just says jump and I say yeah, how high oh this high? Okay, i'll do that

01:34:18 I don't need to fight with my wife when she says

01:34:20 Maybe don't wear pajamas to a dance

01:34:23 Uh, you know like just okay. It's just efficient, right?

01:34:27 And we don't need to be aggressive with each other because we respect each other. Sure

01:34:32 I

01:34:34 Have all them I agree with all so you if you have a respect relationship with your children

01:34:40 You don't need to be aggressive towards them

01:34:42 Because they'll want to listen to you, right I mean does your gps ever yell at you

01:34:48 No, it does not unless the volume's way up recalculating right now

01:34:53 It just says when possible make a u-turn right?

01:34:55 I mean so your gps doesn't because you listen to your gps, right?

01:34:59 You assume that I mean with very rare exceptions. It's going to get you where you need to get to in

01:35:03 Reasonable time and efficiency, right?

01:35:05 So you respect your gps

01:35:09 You don't get into fights. I mean, I know it's a robot in a sense, but right

01:35:14 And

01:35:18 Like if I didn't respect it I wouldn't rely on its its navigation, right

01:35:22 and so

01:35:24 The way to be a peaceful parent is to have your children respect you

01:35:27 And for your children to respect you you have to respect yourself

01:35:33 And to respect yourself

01:35:38 You have to not permit people in your life who don't respect you or who hold you in contempt

01:35:42 If you say I am worthy of respect

01:35:46 Then you have to earn it

01:35:51 By being right and also being humble where you're wrong and taking correction and listening to other people who have better expertise, right?

01:35:56 Sure

01:35:59 Right, so in order to respect you your children have to see you respect yourself and respect others

01:36:05 Yes, right

01:36:07 So if you have a big garden and someone comes over and says, you know, you hire a gardener says

01:36:13 Oh, you need to do this this and this with your garden and you say okay

01:36:16 And then you do it your children see you respecting someone else, right?

01:36:19 sure

01:36:21 And also their their mother and everything else you respect the mother and and so on right and again

01:36:26 That doesn't mean never criticize or never give any feedback or never. I mean, we are we are old enough to understand this, right?

01:36:32 So your children need to see you both give respect to those who've earned it

01:36:36 And to be respected because you've earned it

01:36:41 Right now your children also need to see you deal with people who don't respect you

01:36:47 You

01:36:49 Brilliant

01:36:52 I mean once I was in a restaurant with my daughter and somebody who had a problem with the show

01:36:55 Came up and was kind of hostile and i'm like hey sit down tell me, you know

01:36:59 We'll talk about it and I went through the arguments and all of that and actually ended up being quite a productive conversation

01:37:04 Wow

01:37:07 and

01:37:09 If somebody is

01:37:11 Disrespectful and you know i'll call them out on it

01:37:13 And if they continue to be you mean you've seen this in the live streams occasionally i'll i'll kick people out or or whatever

01:37:18 it is right just because you know, like i'm

01:37:20 Why would I mean i've earned respect?

01:37:22 It doesn't mean i'm perfect of course right but part of the way that i've earned respect is by admitting imperfections and changing when needed

01:37:27 So if your children genuinely respect you you don't need to be aggressive with them

01:37:42 I mean you said this with regards to the difference between your mother and your father, right?

01:37:46 Your mother respects your business acumen

01:37:49 Which is right and you've earned it. You're very successful. You've been doing it for seven years

01:37:54 I'm here at this point. Yeah. Yeah, honestly, it's it's amazing

01:37:58 It's amazing how good you are at this and i'm you know

01:38:02 At 28 I was a new entrepreneur and you'd be doing it for donkey's years, right?

01:38:08 So massive props and respect i'd listen to you too, right?

01:38:11 Thank you

01:38:12 So your mother respects you so you don't need to get aggressive your father drives everyone crazy

01:38:17 Because he's arrogant

01:38:19 intrusive

01:38:22 Condescending and wrong

01:38:24 Right

01:38:27 And your sons

01:38:31 Will gravitate to the highest status person in the environment and they will replicate that behavior

01:38:39 And they don't need to have a lot of exposure to it to internalize it

01:38:44 And right now I think I assume they're being programmed to act like your father oh lord

01:38:52 Because you defer to him

01:38:56 So who's the ultimate authority

01:38:59 In your family tree that they they've seen

01:39:02 And then yeah, so your father is the ultimate authority, right?

01:39:08 So they're like the space aliens do they want to deal with an underling what does the space aliens always say take me to your

01:39:13 leader, right

01:39:15 They don't want to deal with an underling. Do you ever I mean you're in business, right?

01:39:18 Do you ever want to talk to someone in great detail detail about a problem if they have no authority?

01:39:22 Oh, no, of course not. No, I mean do you do you give great lectures to the to the waiter about the menu?

01:39:29 No, no, no, he can't change the menu. No

01:39:33 So

01:39:37 you will only genuinely interact with people if you have an issue or need to right the people who

01:39:43 have authority right people who can actually change things and so

01:39:47 Your kids are looking around scanning around the whole family tree the whole environment. They're saying okay who's in charge

01:39:54 Oh dad, their grand granddad's in charge, right

01:39:58 And

01:40:01 It was kind of chilling to me when you said what did you say about your kids in their relationship with their grandfather?

01:40:07 I want to be around him. They love him, right? Yeah. Yep. Holy shit, dude

01:40:12 Do you get what a five alarm fire that is?

01:40:15 Yes

01:40:19 So why did they love him?

01:40:21 This is the ultimate authority figure. Yeah, because he's the one in charge. He's the most powerful and he runs you like a vacuum cleaner

01:40:28 So your son looks at you and you say don't go outside

01:40:35 and he's like

01:40:37 I didn't uh

01:40:44 Hey, I wasn't expecting all the my it's like it's like somebody

01:40:50 Somebody in a car

01:40:53 Just yelling at you that that you're speeding and you're like, eh, not really

01:40:57 I mean i'm going a little over the speed limit, but who cares, you know get lost right?

01:41:02 As opposed to a cop whoop whoop. You're speeding

01:41:05 Right. Yes, then you pull over right because the cop's got authority. He's got power

01:41:10 It's not just a good idea it's the law right

01:41:16 You need to be the alpha

01:41:24 In your environment. I mean you are at work, right?

01:41:28 You know, yes for sure and honestly, I was gonna ask you that how do I respect myself more because like I have maybe

01:41:35 uh, 14 or 15

01:41:38 Employees either direct employees or people I work with all the time that defer directly to me and

01:41:44 I

01:41:46 Struggle honestly with having authority like telling them no, this is like in a nice way. We have to do this here

01:41:53 you know, i'm like or if they make a mistake I try to I've

01:41:57 Business books and things like that, but having authority honestly makes me uncomfortable

01:42:01 And and there's nothing wrong with that that's actually quite healthy

01:42:06 That's I mean I I used to I mean I was the boss of that's all right

01:42:11 It sounds like i'm one upping you and i'm not right. I mean

01:42:14 No, no, like I mean it's like oh, yeah 12. I bossed I was the boss of 30 people

01:42:20 So I don't mean that at all, right because that's ridiculous. I was older than you blah blah blah doesn't matter, right?

01:42:24 but

01:42:25 Uh when I needed to talk to someone one-on-one

01:42:28 The last thing I'd want to do is like I need to get in my office now

01:42:32 Or I need to see near my office right now or you know, because what would they do? They'd crap themselves, right?

01:42:37 Yeah, yeah

01:42:38 So I went back and forth for a long time. What's the best way?

01:42:41 And what I'd do is I'd say hey, can I borrow you for a sec?

01:42:44 Yeah, because that's totally non-intrusive and non-threatening, right?

01:42:48 or

01:42:49 or you know quick question or you know as opposed to

01:42:52 Get in my office now, you know like people that they and the other thing was it was

01:42:56 Private right so it was not embarrassing in front of their colleagues

01:43:00 Right, right, right

01:43:02 But no, I mean even if I did just have a question that had to be private even if it wasn't any kind of correction

01:43:06 Or problem. I just needed to find a way to talk to them

01:43:09 Yeah without you, you know, like the things that the teacher says stay after class and right

01:43:14 So no, it's it's good to struggle with

01:43:16 Authority

01:43:18 And of course, you know, I mean you hear me a million times on these calling shows

01:43:21 Like I can't tell you what to do. I don't know what to do. This is my perspective. I could be wrong

01:43:25 It's my opinion. Is it correct what i'm saying? Like i'm constantly deferring to people of course because i'm talking to you and trying to

01:43:31 unravel the

01:43:33 Complex multi-dimensional threads of your life in like two hours, right? Yeah

01:43:37 So yeah, i'm gonna get a bunch wrong and I need to correct and all that right?

01:43:40 So no, it's good it's good to to struggle with with

01:43:47 Authority because of course the thing is you get the most out of people when they're enthusiastic

01:43:50 And authoritarianism one of the first things that kills is enthusiasm, right?

01:43:55 Yes, right

01:43:58 So

01:44:01 Were your parents child abusers

01:44:03 Yes

01:44:07 Have your parents

01:44:09 Apologized made restitution and taken steps to ensure they'll never be bullying

01:44:14 critical hypercritical

01:44:16 contemptuous

01:44:18 Or negative in the future not at all, right

01:44:23 What is best for your sons

01:44:30 Not being exposed to that

01:44:37 Well, what's best for your sons

01:44:43 Is to have respect for you

01:44:45 which means

01:44:48 You can't be bullied now say well, what if i'm over at my parents place? Will you come back with a different perspective?

01:44:54 Your children will note how you are when you leave and they'll note how you are when you return

01:44:58 Or say well i'm i'm upstairs with on the phone

01:45:01 Having a fight with my dad. Well, they can hear the muffled tones and they also know how you appear when you come down the stairs

01:45:11 Like you can't hide anything from kids like this is the one of the big revelations of because you've got a whole life business

01:45:16 friends movies

01:45:18 Events hobbies and they've got like one thing and one thing only which is figuring out their family their parents and their social environment

01:45:23 That's it. They're like lasers, right?

01:45:25 So you can't be bullied now, I mean if you can find a way to

01:45:32 Not be bullied by your father

01:45:35 Okay

01:45:36 God, I mean your business career is

01:45:38 Amazing in your in your 20s. It's like great beyond great. It's hugely impressive in my in my view. So

01:45:45 Oh, you're welcome now

01:45:48 I just say this because I might need a rental at some point. No, i'm kidding

01:45:50 But I actually have some I had some in canada I sold them because they passed rent control so oh, yeah, that'll do it

01:45:57 That'll do it. Yeah. Yeah

01:45:59 So if you can find a way to not be bullied by your father fantastic

01:46:07 If you can't

01:46:09 But you can't let your kids see you getting bullied

01:46:12 Because that's just what that does is it brings the bullying home

01:46:17 Sure, because if your kids don't respect you you have to escalate right?

01:46:21 because when you said at the beginning you said my and this is why I said like

01:46:25 You might you said my my three-year-old doesn't he disobeyed me, right?

01:46:30 Yes

01:46:32 Which is for you to say that your commandment should be enough and for children your commandment

01:46:37 Absolutely is enough as long as you're the alpha

01:46:40 Interesting, okay

01:46:44 It is it's a magic spell

01:46:46 If your children respect you and again, you can think of all the people in your life that you respect

01:46:51 And if they say do something you do it

01:46:54 Absolutely

01:46:56 So that's because you respect them so they don't need any aggression. That's sort of my point

01:47:00 So a peaceful parenting is simply self-respect

01:47:02 the respect of your children

01:47:05 And don't have people in your life now

01:47:07 You know people then i'm not saying this would be you but people then go to the place where they say

01:47:11 Oh, so you're saying don't have people in my life who disagree with me. It's like well, no, that's that's not what i'm saying at all

01:47:16 You just don't have people in your life who hold you in contempt

01:47:19 how do you

01:47:22 Respect yourself more like i'm self-critical and

01:47:28 Even if I achieve something i'm like well I need to do more and so like I

01:47:32 Sorry, how do you know that you're self-critical just because you say that shit in your head and that's just your dad, isn't it?

01:47:37 That's just like never good enough for your father and always got to do more and

01:47:42 Yeah, how do you know you're self-critical or it's just your internalized father that you had to protect yourself

01:47:48 Eliminate that i'm sorry

01:47:51 How do you how do you get rid of that?

01:47:53 So are you saying how do you

01:47:57 Uh, stop disrespecting yourself

01:47:59 Yes

01:48:01 Well, I mean i'm not sure about the final form

01:48:03 But the first form is stop having people in your life

01:48:07 That you want to voluntarily have around you that you ask to come over and want to give your kids to who hold you in contempt

01:48:14 Okay

01:48:16 Do you see what i'm saying? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely

01:48:19 I mean, how do you get perfectly lean and healthy?

01:48:23 I don't know but maybe if you're eating a cheesecake a day at least stop doing that like like at least stop

01:48:27 But don't eat a cheesecake a day

01:48:29 Sure, but that that you know, that's definitely something you can start with and that's going to take a while

01:48:33 so yeah, you don't have

01:48:36 You don't have people in your life who hold you in contempt, I mean, why would you want that anyway?

01:48:42 It's a very good point, I mean, that's why I literally wouldn't talk about it

01:48:50 Horrible because even if you are deficient in some kind of way contempt isn't going to fix it

01:48:55 Right

01:48:59 right

01:49:00 Contempt doesn't make people better

01:49:02 No, no contempt is an emotion of get away like I want I have no respect for you have nothing to do with you

01:49:08 You're nothing but negative

01:49:10 Get away. That's what contempt is contempt isn't doesn't improve people. It only improves your life by getting crap heads away from you

01:49:16 Sure

01:49:19 Yeah

01:49:21 You know and then you know, maybe you have a conversation with your wife

01:49:26 And

01:49:30 You can ask her because it's an interesting question, right?

01:49:32 How do you feel when my father treats me?

01:49:34 I mean when when you when your father stormed over and was yelling at you in front of your friends

01:49:38 In in your household with your children there

01:49:41 What did your wife say about that afterwards?

01:49:48 You

01:49:49 She thought it was inappropriate that he was acting that way and it was discussed today

01:49:53 I mean again the same thing. Well, she never even watched them. Why and why would he respond in that way?

01:49:57 Okay, but he did

01:50:01 Yes, so what does she say? What did she say? Because she loves you, right?

01:50:05 And she doesn't want to see you hurt and harmed, right?

01:50:08 So what did she say after you were hurt and harmed by your father

01:50:15 I

01:50:17 Don't remember honestly, what would have been the ideal thing to say? Yeah

01:50:26 The ideal thing would be uh

01:50:30 Well, i'm sure she recognizes this is not healthy and I shouldn't put up with it

01:50:35 I love you so much. I can't ever see this happen to you again

01:50:38 Yes

01:50:41 Right

01:50:44 Now, I mean that's that's a pretty tough thing for a woman to do I mean all all

01:50:48 You know all sort of gender norms aside. It's a little tougher for women

01:50:52 to say that but

01:50:54 It is important, right?

01:50:56 Yes

01:50:58 You need people in your life who are going to say

01:51:00 I can't I can't see this happen to you. Yes. I can't I can't ever see this again

01:51:06 Like either this behavior needs to be fixed or you need to take a break

01:51:12 And we were uh

01:51:14 We were leaning on moving to a different city about 40 minutes away

01:51:18 Partially because there's more kids centered stuff and more like homeschooling things because we went to homeschool as well

01:51:23 Uh and also partially because I realized part of the reason why I was staying where I was at was because it was near my

01:51:29 Parents i'm like well, why the heck would I do that because they don't care about them

01:51:33 I'm trying to force something. They don't even want apps and everything else. Even if they just well, this is the other thing too

01:51:38 Is that your children?

01:51:41 are not modeling reciprocity

01:51:43 and again, I know they're young and all of that but

01:51:46 Your children want to spend time with their grandparents who don't want to spend time with your children

01:51:50 Yes, which means that your children

01:51:53 Are begging for your grant for your parents attention without getting much in return

01:51:59 Just like you are you see you're modeling that behavior, too

01:52:02 Yes that you beg for any positive treatment from cruel high status people

01:52:08 Yes

01:52:10 And man, you don't want that right? You don't want that in your family. Yeah. No

01:52:14 Well, that's just

01:52:18 This this puts things into perspective

01:52:21 Well, that's uh, that's the gruesome job of philosophy man. That's what it rolls. Uh, can I ask you one other?

01:52:28 uh, I didn't even anticipate getting on all the the uh

01:52:31 My childhood which again was necessary because that answers my original question, which I just didn't realize at the time

01:52:37 Okay, but keep it quick though because i've got something else this afternoon, but i'm certainly happy to answer the question

01:52:42 And I respect your time. Thank you very much. Uh is

01:52:44 Is spending time with my kids and it being engaging?

01:52:49 because I almost feel guilty because it's

01:52:52 Like after you know the the tenth kids book it's kind of boring for me

01:52:55 So i'll try to take them to like again trampoline parks or playgrounds and stuff and that's pretty entertaining as well. But

01:53:00 Uh, and my wife doesn't seem to mind very much but like for me to I know you were staying at home dad

01:53:05 So that's even more impressive for me to be with them

01:53:08 all day

01:53:11 is

01:53:13 And I love yeah, I love spending time with them but it's just doing kiddy stuff is gets boring after you know a couple hours sure

01:53:20 So like do you have any advice on how to make it less boring or any?

01:53:25 I just you know, you you've done it longer than I have. Listen, you've asked you've asked the question. I got it

01:53:30 Yeah, I mean there's there's a very simple way to do it which is stop consuming everybody else's entertainment

01:53:34 Instead of reading stories make up stories have them participate make it some adventure, you know

01:53:40 Turn a box into a spaceship like uh, let your creativity run wild. Just don't sit

01:53:45 Of course, you're reading you're basically like a an ai reader of somebody else's book. Of course, it's going to get mindlessly boring

01:53:51 but you want to just really up the creativity and then you can't get bored because you're

01:53:56 Creating stories on the fly and doing really cool and neat things that way

01:54:00 So yeah, I mean just you know, it's like if you're just watching i'm not saying you do right?

01:54:04 But if you were just watching I don't know. What was it? Paw Patrol or something like that?

01:54:07 over and over again

01:54:10 Uh, that would be pretty uh, pretty boring, right?

01:54:12 but if you're instead saying let's create our own adventures, let's uh,

01:54:17 Uh all that kind of stuff that is uh that that will keep you engaged and interesting

01:54:22 interested sorry

01:54:25 But that

01:54:27 To me that sounds also boring like i'll make up stories and tell them and it's like I don't know. I don't

01:54:32 Particularly like doing that either

01:54:35 Oh, you don't and do the kids, uh, enjoy like new stories or creative stories like that. I love it

01:54:41 They love it and i'll try to think of stuff from you know

01:54:44 positive stuff from my childhood about animals or or things that you know going swimming or or playing with

01:54:49 Again, my dog or something and they love that

01:54:52 And uh, and I can't and like I struggle with with creativity

01:54:55 I guess and it's just not fun to me to try to imagine up the dragon and then this and that you know

01:54:59 It's sorry. It's not fun for you. What do you mean?

01:55:02 Did you do it or something?

01:55:05 I think i'm bad of course for a three-year-old everything is great

01:55:08 But I think i'm bad at it and I don't enjoy making up stories

01:55:11 And what do you mean you're bad at it? I mean, you're not trying to create an oscar-winning movie script. Sure

01:55:17 I guess good point. I

01:55:19 Don't enjoy it. I guess would be better. I mean i'm sure i'm bad objectively but for a three-year-old it doesn't matter

01:55:23 I just don't enjoy that either. Okay. So what is it that you do most enjoy doing with your kids?

01:55:28 physical stuff like again trampoline park or playing with them in the playground or wrestling and

01:55:33 Okay, so and and obviously there's nothing wrong with doing that stuff in the majority of time

01:55:38 Sure, okay

01:55:41 Yes

01:55:43 And which is what i've been doing

01:55:44 I just didn't know if I was defective because I hate reading for long periods of time

01:55:48 And I mean, but your wife enjoys your reading just not kids books. What so your your wife enjoys that, right?

01:55:53 The reading. Oh, she oh she loves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean

01:55:57 I think it does wear on her after a while, especially if she's just home alone with no and we don't

01:56:02 and we have like an acre but it's it's near a road, so

01:56:05 I don't know. She's she's inside with them a lot and so it gets boring for her, but she does enjoy it mostly

01:56:10 For my conversation your kids get into the stories. I mean, do you ask them questions? Uh, and stories like so? Oh, yeah

01:56:18 Okay, so like when you're reading three little pigs, right you say okay, how many bricks were there in the house?

01:56:22 So where did they get the straw, you know, let's just ask a bunch of questions

01:56:26 So you get into the world and use it as a sort of multi-dimensional teaching tool rather than just reading like a a robot

01:56:31 Yes

01:56:34 Right. Okay. Well look, I mean if your wife enjoys more of the verbal stuff and you enjoy more of the physical stuff again

01:56:38 That's not atypical

01:56:40 When it comes but if you're bored, yeah, mix it up

01:56:43 Do you have to really fiercely protect your enjoyment of your time with your kids?

01:56:48 Right, so if you just do stuff everything for them

01:56:51 and you don't have to enjoy it at all, that's not good because

01:56:56 Then you won't look forward to spending time with them as much right? Exactly. Correct. Exactly. Yeah be absolutely fierce like, uh,

01:57:03 If if you're not enjoying something you say, okay

01:57:07 Daddy's bored and let's let's go do something else and and all of that kind of stuff and that's totally fine

01:57:12 Yeah, you can't just live for your kids because that's not teaching them about reciprocity and other people's needs. Okay? Well, great

01:57:17 That's that's that's that's perfect. You know, this is boring. Let's do something else

01:57:21 Daddy's bored. Well, not this is boring

01:57:24 Yeah, daddy's bored or let's do something. Well, whether you say bored might be a bit of an insult

01:57:29 Yeah, yeah, you know if you're really passionate about something and someone else says it's boring

01:57:34 No, it's very insult. You're correct. Right? Hey, let's do something right? Let's take a break from this or you know, um, hey

01:57:41 I I would love to do something else. I would love to try doing this that and the other without insulting what they're into

01:57:46 In the moments, right? I mean, I think that's the word right? I mean, you always have this in in particular

01:57:51 Yeah, like so in particular like even in the course of this conversation i've said I don't want to hear more about this

01:57:57 Let's talk about that and and you've you've wanted to talk more about stuff and we've so we've negotiated back and forth but

01:58:02 Uh, i'm not a slave to you. You're not a slave to me

01:58:04 so yeah, if you if you're getting restless and you want to do something else then you say let's go do x y and z and

01:58:11 uh, you know again as boys i'm sure the park stuff is great for them and and they love that so

01:58:15 Yeah, that would be um

01:58:18 Uh, that would be yeah, you don't have to do everything for them. Uh, that's that's not that's not a great thing

01:58:23 Okay. Well fantastic. That makes me feel a lot better beautiful

01:58:27 Will you sounds like it was a fairly useful conversation? Will you keep me posted about how things are going?

01:58:32 Will it?

01:58:35 I'm, sorry

01:58:36 It's absolutely. Yes. All right. Thanks for the great chat and uh, great great questions. Uh, great work on your on your part and uh,

01:58:42 Go go have fun with your family. All right. I will thank you

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