Retour sur le 55ème congrès du PAM avec Mohamed Mehdi Bensaid - 17/02/2024
MEDI1TV Afrique : Retour sur le 55ème congrès du PAM avec Mohamed Mehdi Bensaid - 17/02/2024
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00:00 [Music]
00:17 [French]
00:20 [French]
00:23 [French]
00:27 [French]
00:30 not to be presented to its succession.
00:32 And as we know, it is a trio of the young generation
00:35 that will occupy a collegial leadership.
00:37 Fatemeh Zahra Mansouri, Mehdi Bin Saeed and Salah at-Til Abul Khali.
00:42 But be careful, as Madam Mansouri said,
00:43 if it is a secretary-general with three people,
00:45 it will not be a secretary-general with three heads,
00:47 let's say, but it is hardly understandable.
00:51 So to explain this collegial leadership,
00:53 the PAM congress and even the PAM as a whole,
00:55 and for its future,
00:57 we are receiving today with the political scientist Mustapha Sehimi,
00:59 whom we greet by the way.
01:01 Good evening.
01:01 One of the three members of this triumvirate,
01:03 Mehdi Bin Saeed,
01:05 Mohamed Mehdi Bin Saeed,
01:06 who is also the Minister of Youth, Culture and Communication.
01:09 Hello, Mr. Minister.
01:11 Hello, Mehdi Bin Saeed,
01:12 since you are also here as a PAM.
01:14 Hello.
01:15 Hello, Mustapha Sehimi.
01:16 So a quick introduction,
01:17 Mehdi Bin Saeed, you were very young in politics
01:19 since in 2008 at 24 years old,
01:20 with a double diploma in Sciences Po Paris and Toulouse,
01:23 you founded after the Circle of Young Democrats,
01:27 the party that was part of the movement for all Democrats,
01:29 of which the PAM was to emerge,
01:30 the TOUM in 2008.
01:31 You were also elected to the House of Representatives in 2011,
01:35 at 27 years old and at 30 years old,
01:36 you presided over the Foreign Affairs Commission,
01:38 the National Defense, Islamic Affairs and Moroccans
01:40 living abroad from 2014 to 2016.
01:43 You see what I'm saying, that's good.
01:44 Absolutely.
01:44 You are also a member of the PAM's executive bodies
01:46 since its creation, or almost,
01:48 and you joined the government in October 21,
01:50 with the title of a Grand Ministry,
01:52 grouping the Youth, Culture and Communication.
01:54 And now you are a member of the PAM's tricephal general secretariat.
01:59 So we're going to find neologisms,
02:00 there are a lot of neologisms.
02:01 So, first question,
02:03 to this function, you and your fathers,
02:05 P-A-I-R-S of course,
02:07 of the Triumvirate,
02:08 you were elected or you were designated by consensus?
02:11 Because consensus is a word that has come up
02:12 very, very often in your press conference.
02:14 Yes, it's a consensus.
02:15 Of course, it's an election in the sense that it's a congress,
02:17 so who says congress says,
02:19 of course, election.
02:21 Now, consensus is also a form of approval,
02:24 by the majority,
02:25 and then by all the activists,
02:28 first of all, of a process,
02:30 because before the election of this new direction,
02:34 there were amendments to be brought to our internal regulation.
02:38 So we had to start with a preliminary discussion,
02:41 before the congress, of course,
02:43 between the different party leaders,
02:46 and then with all the congressmen,
02:48 on the philosophy behind it,
02:50 why we wanted to bring these amendments,
02:53 and so there was a debate, of course,
02:54 which lasted until late at night.
02:56 Next to that, there was the political sheet,
02:59 which we also discussed until 3 o'clock in the morning.
03:02 So there was a whole debate in the commissions
03:04 which lasted until 3, 4 o'clock in the morning,
03:08 and then, of course, the next day,
03:10 once the philosophy was accepted,
03:11 there was an internal discussion between the different parties,
03:16 to be able to bring this new direction to life.
03:19 So before you give the floor,
03:21 Mr. Abou Sabassi Hamid, if you don't mind,
03:23 if I understand correctly,
03:25 there is a collegial direction.
03:26 - Absolutely.
03:27 - There is Fateme Zahra Mansouri,
03:29 there is Mehdi Ben Said,
03:30 and there is Salahuddin Aboul Ghali.
03:31 I start with Fateme Zahra Mansouri,
03:33 not because of gallantry or honor,
03:35 but because she is the coordinator.
03:37 You called her "Sidara Issa",
03:38 "Madame la Présidente",
03:39 everyone calls her "Madame la Coordinatrice",
03:41 she is the coordinator.
03:42 Why not designate her herself,
03:44 and then we would have moved on to something else?
03:46 What are the secrets of this type of direction?
03:48 - It's the whole debate.
03:49 If you only want to have a new direction,
03:52 that is to say, a new person at the head of a party,
03:55 and then we will discuss the party,
03:58 there will be a communication around the party
03:59 in relation to one person, etc.
04:01 After a day or two,
04:04 then we move on to something else,
04:05 that's fine, but the idea behind this congress
04:09 was an opportunity for us
04:11 to try to ask ourselves the right questions.
04:12 And the right questions today are,
04:14 is the political field,
04:16 in general and more particularly the PAM,
04:18 still interesting to Moroccans?
04:20 If so, what are the reasons for this interest today?
04:25 If not, if there is a disinterest in the political field,
04:27 why?
04:28 So the question today is also about the number of voters in 2021
04:33 and possibly a possible crisis that may occur in 2026
04:37 if we fall back into the 2007 disasters,
04:39 if you remember.
04:40 - We were just talking about this...
04:43 - So there is a philosophy behind it,
04:44 it's not a question of people,
04:47 it's a question of what message we want to bring.
04:49 And you said it very well,
04:51 there have been demands since 2015, 2016 already
04:55 for Fateme Zahra to take over the head of the party,
04:57 and with a certain maturity,
05:01 there is a really deep debate,
05:03 beyond the place of thinking of the person,
05:06 thinking about what program,
05:07 what image we want to give to Moroccans.
05:11 The main thing today is that Moroccans
05:14 reappropriate the political field
05:16 and the PAM gives this opportunity with a message,
05:20 by leading a trio to its head,
05:23 to simply say that today it is a community that will decide
05:28 for the interest of the party,
05:30 with messages behind it,
05:31 because this community, this philosophy
05:32 should not remain only at the head of the party,
05:35 but really be the essence of the party's becoming
05:39 and try to install that in the different directions,
05:42 both at the central level and at the regional level.
05:44 So it is a philosophy to appropriate
05:47 so that we can once again
05:49 reach the maximum of Moroccans.
05:51 Insofar as today the organization
05:53 is the essence of the existence of the party,
05:56 and with a balance to be put in place,
05:59 here is the organization of the party since 2008,
06:02 what have we managed to do?
06:03 And what can we do with the evolutions
06:05 that the Moroccan field knows,
06:06 that the Moroccan interest knows,
06:10 for the political field?
06:12 In addition to that, we are doing a small benchmark
06:14 of what is happening in the world.
06:15 There is a real evolution of the political apparatus.
06:17 Today, some parties no longer hold congresses,
06:20 no longer hold national councils,
06:21 they work digitally, transparently.
06:24 And they arrive, because of these evolutions
06:27 that the world knows,
06:28 to reach as many Moroccans as possible.
06:29 There are debates every day
06:31 through digital platforms, etc.
06:34 There are successful experiences in Latin America,
06:36 there are other experiences in Europe.
06:37 So it is these evolutions that we have tried to make.
06:40 We put a part of pragmatism, of course,
06:44 Moroccan-Moroccan,
06:45 because we address a Moroccan-Moroccan public
06:47 with Moroccan specificities.
06:49 Of course, rural is not urban, etc.
06:51 And so it is all this that we will try to respond to
06:53 with this new philosophy.
06:54 - So you have tried to innovate, finally, with this question of...
06:57 - The congress is not a finality, let's remember it.
07:00 It is the start of a new way of doing things within PAM.
07:03 - Stavos Remy.
07:04 - So we will leave for a while, if you allow it,
07:07 the PAM program.
07:10 I would like to come back to the conditions of this congress.
07:12 - Absolutely.
07:13 - First question, why the outgoing Secretary-General
07:17 did not ask for a second mandate?
07:19 That is my first question, I have others.
07:23 - On this question first,
07:25 from the moment the organizational philosophy of the party evolves,
07:29 the Secretary-General, there is no longer a Secretary-General.
07:33 And so, this phase is outdated today, for us, within the party.
07:39 So, inevitably, there is no unique candidacy.
07:42 - We can make another reading,
07:44 and estimate that the Secretary-General,
07:46 coming out of the White Vests, estimated that...
07:48 - If you do not do the reading you want,
07:50 I give you the validity of the facts, within the congress.
07:52 - I propose another reading.
07:54 It was known that he was very contested within the party.
07:59 - There were letters, there were letters from former PAM Secretary-General,
08:05 two months ago.
08:06 - The letters of the former...
08:07 - No, no, but it's still the former PAM Secretary-General...
08:10 - It's Mustafa, there was one Secretary-General who wrote a letter.
08:12 - Ah yes.
08:13 - One Secretary-General.
08:14 - Which was validated by others, by the others.
08:15 - And who spoke not of Abdel Fawwi,
08:17 but who spoke of the leadership of the party.
08:20 Including Fatem Zahra, myself and others who were within the political world.
08:24 - But it's the Secretary-General who was targeted.
08:27 - Because it's the Secretary-General.
08:28 - The second point, if you allow me...
08:29 - But we are talking about leadership.
08:30 - No, you are giving me an explanation...
08:35 - You have to give an explanation.
08:36 - ...incident.
08:37 I return to my question.
08:39 He was contested, he was contested within the party.
08:44 There was a scuffle, there were conciliatory meetings within the board,
08:50 of certain members of the board,
08:52 to ask him for a will not to request a second mandate.
08:56 - I don't know where you get your information from,
08:59 but I give you the reality, without a tongue in the mud,
09:01 so you don't have to say "it's racist".
09:03 - I was waiting, I was waiting.
09:04 - No, no, no, no need.
09:05 The reality is that there was a debate on the form we wanted to bring to the party.
09:09 What answer we are going to give to the Moroccans.
09:12 And we always have this opposition between the debate that you bring to us,
09:18 to people, and the debate that we try to bring to the political scene,
09:22 where we talk about projects and programs.
09:24 So of course it's selling to talk about people,
09:26 yes, Wabi, with X, Y, he was no longer...
09:30 All that is selling, for the press it's very good.
09:32 But what interests us today, within the party,
09:35 it's more than selling two or three articles.
09:37 What interests us, again, is what I said earlier,
09:39 it's the Moroccans and the Moroccans.
09:40 We have arrived at a moment, at an important momentum today,
09:45 where if we don't do something to bring the Moroccans back to the political parties,
09:49 quite simply, there will be a disengagement of the Moroccans...
09:52 I take back what you said, I'm sorry.
09:55 It's a shame to say that Wabi was...
09:57 I take back my question differently.
09:59 But I'll tell you one thing, Abdeltaif Wabi is the only general secretary
10:03 who comes out with the party's honors.
10:05 That is, there was no resignation, there was no extraordinary congress.
10:08 And it's a first, because it shows quite simply that the party today
10:11 has a certain maturity, this maturity today is necessary
10:15 to reorganize, because the experience from 2009 to 2008, to 2015,
10:20 has its positive points, but it also has its shortcomings.
10:24 And today, we have made a general assessment, and we are trying to propose something new.
10:29 What is the assessment?
10:30 Sorry, my question, if you allow me, I'll take it back.
10:34 What prevented the outgoing general secretary from adhering to this formula of collegial leadership?
10:41 That comes back to him.
10:43 He didn't think about it?
10:44 No, not at all, there was this debate.
10:46 And from the moment... in all sincerity, because this discussion of collegial leadership
10:50 was also discussed with Serb Abdeltaif Wabi.
10:52 And from the moment he was offered this idea, where there was an adhesion of a majority of members,
10:58 at least at the start of the political office and later on, of the activists,
11:01 he said, if you choose this path, I am not concerned, I am a general secretary,
11:07 I can't be... having been a general secretary, and being on the board of a collegial leadership.
11:11 And it was his choice.
11:13 And once again, he stayed with us until the last minute of the congress,
11:17 and, as you know very well, he is a member of the Political Office of Rights,
11:20 as a minister first, and above all, he offers his services for any council, for a work in itself.
11:25 You say he left...
11:26 And once again...
11:27 You say he left with the honors...
11:29 I'll finish the idea.
11:30 This idea of collegial leadership, indeed today it is a leadership of three people,
11:33 but that doesn't mean that we won't have a use for the wisdom, the experience,
11:38 the expertise of other activists, of other leaders,
11:42 especially former general secretaries.
11:44 And we call once again that all activists,
11:47 especially former general secretaries,
11:49 to put their hand in the matter.
11:50 This party concerns us all.
11:51 It doesn't concern us...
11:52 Wait, you're not speaking in my language, you're speaking in a frightened language,
11:54 because you don't let me ask the questions, you're...
11:56 But I answer you, it doesn't matter if you have a 50-minute show instead of two hours.
12:00 Well, it's 50 minutes, we have to condense that, and it's a convincing 52 minutes.
12:03 Let's go.
12:04 There's more than a fortnight left.
12:06 You said he left with the honors.
12:07 Yes.
12:08 If we had to...
12:09 It's very good.
12:10 He came, he said it, he was praised.
12:12 What's his assessment?
12:13 At the head of the party.
12:14 What can we say that he left?
12:16 He stayed four years in the party, including two years in the middle of COVID.
12:19 That is, he didn't have the opportunity to organize meetings.
12:22 He had to manage the elections, as you know,
12:26 legislative, communal at the same time.
12:28 We remained the second political force after 2016.
12:32 And above all, it's the first to have made sure that the party is in the majority after 15 years.
12:37 After at least 12 years in the opposition.
12:41 If we go back to 2021.
12:43 In all the parties in the world...
12:45 So it's still a respectable assessment.
12:46 I don't know all of them, but I guess that in all the parties in the world,
12:48 we apply this formula of "we don't change a winning team".
12:50 However, there has been unprecedented electoral success.
12:52 But the subject...
12:53 He's in government, he's...
12:54 It's very good.
12:55 And he's leaving.
12:56 There's something that doesn't fit.
12:57 No, no, no, no.
12:58 The debate, the societal debate, goes beyond the simple fact of winning elections today.
13:02 The societal debate.
13:03 The evolution of technology today brings us more information from Moroccans,
13:10 especially this new generation.
13:12 And I've already said it.
13:13 I've already said it, and I'll repeat it again.
13:15 My concern is not to be second, third or first.
13:18 My concern is to perhaps be first, but with a disengagement of Moroccans.
13:23 And as you know, we've experienced this problem.
13:26 Morocco experienced it in 2007.
13:28 Hence the emergence of the MTD, the Movement for All Democrats, and the PAM,
13:32 to try to bring a solution to this problem.
13:35 And that's my concern today.
13:37 That's why we had to say, "OK, wait a minute.
13:39 Very good.
13:40 Organizationally, we're very good.
13:41 Electorally, we managed to hold second place after 2016, etc.
13:44 Despite COVID, despite everything, despite 12 years of opposition.
13:47 We're making an effort.
13:48 We can perhaps be first, or perhaps remain second or third, whatever.
13:51 But is this the real need of Moroccans?
13:55 We've considered that there was an additional effort to be made
14:01 with a reorganization of our house, that is, of the PAM, the political apparatus PAM.
14:07 And to go closer together, to try to make decisions together,
14:15 first in the provinces, in the regions.
14:17 And of course, this message must emanate from the leadership.
14:19 This is the philosophy that we've tried to put in place.
14:23 And it's not something unique in the world, as you know.
14:26 I told you about the experiences that there have been,
14:28 first in the past in our country, in the political history of our country,
14:31 but also the experiences of today in different countries.
14:35 What experiences did our country have?
14:37 There was the experience of the UNFP, the experience of the IC,
14:39 the experience of the MP, there were similar experiences.
14:41 In this sense, there was the experience with the late Sidi Bouhssiad H. Eddel
14:45 at the head of the left, so there were collective experiences.
14:49 But if you allow me, you gave examples.
14:51 But there are experiences today, similar in other countries.
14:54 You gave historical examples that are not, I think, relevant.
14:58 The experience shows that a collegial leadership never gives satisfactory results.
15:04 What is the expected result?
15:06 Is it the expected result for the political apparatus or for the political field?
15:10 Both.
15:11 I'm sorry, no?
15:12 Both.
15:13 No?
15:14 You know, what is the problem with collegial leadership?
15:16 There are three profiles in the species.
15:18 Three profiles that have different paths.
15:21 How to work, how to animate, how to succeed in embodying a leadership.
15:27 You referred earlier to the fact that there was a problem of leadership within PAM.
15:32 Is that true?
15:33 Yes, there was a problem of leadership.
15:34 Who said that?
15:35 PAM was created in 2008 and was constituted in February 2009.
15:39 Fatemeh Zahra Mansouri, who is president of this college,
15:47 coordinator, is the sixth person in charge of this party for 15 years.
15:53 The seventh is the one who was provisional.
15:59 Yes, but I'm talking about the one who had a mandate.
16:02 So there is a problem of leadership that is posed within this party.
16:08 Do you think that the collegial formula is a satisfactory answer?
16:12 I'll continue with another question.
16:14 You are the party represented by seven ministers in this cabinet.
16:19 The choice of ministers poses a problem, since there are profiles,
16:25 very well said, that even within PAM were parachuted.
16:29 Inzel, who had a low coloration.
16:32 I'll let him answer.
16:33 No, no, who had a low coloration.
16:35 I'm coming, I'm coming.
16:36 Partisan coloration.
16:37 The question is short, please.
16:38 Finally, since I'm taking advantage of the speech.
16:41 Answer your questions.
16:44 You referred to the work of PAM within the government.
16:48 Question, February 2024, what is the added value of PAM in government work?
16:55 So the first question is always this question about the leadership of the party.
16:59 I think that today it is a rule still installed within the party,
17:02 where we try to renew the parties, but also the ideas of the party.
17:07 This is something of that, insofar as today you yourself and the press in general
17:14 make the same criticisms when a leadership has been installed for years.
17:17 So it's really, it's criticism, I want to say, depending on the guest you have in front.
17:22 It's understandable.
17:23 But we don't make a decision, we don't make a decision,
17:27 compared to the criticisms of each other.
17:29 We try to respond once again in our own way.
17:31 We can maybe be wrong, but we try to respond in our own way
17:34 to the problems of Moroccans and Moroccans.
17:37 And the real question today is whether the Moroccan political field
17:41 is of general interest to the Moroccans today,
17:43 and more particularly this new generation.
17:45 We have considered that it is a message today,
17:48 that it is no longer the person who is of interest within the party.
17:52 But going back to the basics, I remind you that the MTD at the time
17:56 and PAM afterwards were led by three people,
17:59 Ahmed Kherchishen, Sibi Adilla and Sibi Boukouch,
18:02 at the beginning, for more than eight months, if I remember correctly.
18:06 And so this idea that remained afterwards, of course, we went back in.
18:10 And there were mistakes by those who were made by PAM.
18:12 That is to say, we were absorbed by the political field
18:15 in a desire to look like everyone, to scare everyone.
18:20 In the end, we succeeded in things, electorally maybe,
18:24 but we failed to bring back, to interest thousands and thousands of young people,
18:31 and less young people, citizens, to public affairs.
18:34 We managed to interest the new generation,
18:36 the whole generation that you see today,
18:38 whether it is at the head of the party or other activists,
18:40 are products for its PAM,
18:41 insofar as they were not in politics, only within this party.
18:44 And it is this idea that we are trying to enhance today,
18:47 to try to be present on the political field
18:50 and to tell people, "Come, we are talking about the project."
18:52 And not, "Oh, it's OUEBI or another..."
18:55 No, today it is not Fatem Zahra Ben Saeed or Abou El Ghari,
18:59 it is the Authenticity and Modernity Party that has tried to bring a political layer.
19:02 On the governmental aspect, I do not share at all your point of view,
19:06 insofar as SISCORI as OUEBI, Fatem Zahra El Mansoury as myself,
19:11 as SEMIRAWI are purely PAM products,
19:14 and indeed on very technical portfolios,
19:19 the first party was looking for people who were not affiliated,
19:23 known within the PAM institutions,
19:28 but who had a sympathy for the project,
19:31 as other parties do, not only in Morocco, but in the world.
19:35 You can see that if you take the example of the Spanish government,
19:38 there were people who were encarted because they had a sense of...
19:41 We will talk about the names, Ritam Zol and El Abnelli and Abdeltaf Merahoui
19:44 were meritants that you have been...
19:46 Merahoui is elected within the party.
19:48 Since when?
19:49 He was elected in the last regional elections.
19:53 In '21?
19:54 Yes, he is elected, he is a militant.
19:56 Ok, so El Abnelli and Ritam Zol are sympathizers,
20:01 sympathizers who attended one, two, three meetings,
20:04 you know there are many names...
20:07 They are not sympathizers who should be ministers.
20:09 No, no, no, for example, I will go further.
20:12 We have today committees of experts,
20:16 who are not necessarily known by all Moroccans,
20:19 because they are sympathizers of the parties we ask for,
20:22 for example we asked for ten for the electoral program of the party,
20:27 but they are not necessarily known.
20:29 Some have left, some have even represented the party in the discussion,
20:34 the development model, etc.
20:36 Others are less known, so they are sympathizers
20:38 who do not necessarily seek to be ministers.
20:40 Now, when we discussed the formation of the government,
20:44 and that we had to offer expertise on certain portfolios,
20:50 we considered that we had five political ministers,
20:53 and that we should offer two profiles, different from the existing profiles.
20:57 And if there is continuity, I don't see where the problem is.
21:00 Really, in innovation, OPAM...
21:02 No, but let's be honest, and don't play with words,
21:05 is it something unique to Morocco?
21:07 What?
21:08 Take the example of the Spanish government,
21:10 two ministers were...
21:11 One minister, a pure diplomat, you know,
21:13 who is not necessarily...
21:14 The Spanish democracy is not necessarily similar to the Moroccan democracy.
21:17 No, what I mean by that is that these are models...
21:19 No, what I mean by that is that these are models that exist around the world.
21:23 We try each time to find expertise elsewhere,
21:25 and we don't find any internally, ok?
21:27 Firstly.
21:28 Secondly, and fortunately there are sympathizers,
21:30 there are activists like me, like Fatem Zala, like others,
21:34 who work day in, day out, who are in the party, etc.
21:38 who were elected, who were present in Parliament,
21:40 who are also in the party's organization.
21:42 There are others who are more in the reflection,
21:44 who are not necessarily known by the general public,
21:47 because they don't look for it first,
21:49 on the 3,500 congressmen who were present,
21:52 on the 3,500 congressmen who were present at the last congress.
21:56 Do you all know him?
21:57 You, who are journalists who have been following OPAM since 2009?
21:59 Certainly not.
22:01 There was a debate, until 3am on the political paper.
22:06 Subjects were discussed on the role of nuclear power in relation to the water problem,
22:12 and the problem of desalination as a solution.
22:14 And these are experts, they are academics.
22:16 These are faces that are not necessarily known by the general public,
22:20 because they are there to bring their ideas,
22:22 and who have a role.
22:25 I have a remark, and a question.
22:29 The remark is that you talk about novelty, you talk about innovation,
22:31 you talk about new things, you talk, you talk.
22:33 I listened to the conference.
22:35 And we do. We don't just talk about it, we do it.
22:37 I'm fine with that, we'll talk about it again in a year.
22:40 And besides, there was a year when you were here,
22:42 you said more or less the same thing, you are in coherence, it's a good thing.
22:45 Now Fatemeh Zalam Ansourou, when she spoke again,
22:47 because she had the biggest part, said,
22:50 "I didn't want to go, but finally, in front of my father's insistence, PIRS,
22:54 it's not really a very new language."
22:56 You see, it's sad. You have a reflex, instead of talking about what we propose,
23:00 the political offer we offer Moroccans,
23:02 you are on the side of nobody.
23:04 We're getting there.
23:06 These are also reflexes to make the journalist's part evolve,
23:09 so that people are more interested in political things.
23:11 Because at some point, the Moroccan, whether it's X or Y, it's not his interest.
23:17 So that was a simple remark, apparently you didn't like it,
23:19 so you didn't react, but it doesn't matter.
23:21 No, no, no, but I'll answer you.
23:23 I won't answer you because I answered during the press conference,
23:25 but I'll answer you.
23:27 So, you talked about it, you said it several times,
23:30 during the press conference, here and elsewhere,
23:34 it seems like it's an argument or an element of language.
23:36 It's true.
23:37 The political or electoral disaffection that you fear for 2020.
23:41 It's real, I'm not lying.
23:43 It's an opposition language, you're in government.
23:46 What makes this majority, when there were still 9 million voters in 2021,
23:51 that you fear that we'll go back to the famous 35% of 2007?
23:56 Absolutely.
23:57 What makes it so that we didn't do our job as a majority?
23:59 It's you, if the voters come.
24:01 It's you, if the voters leave.
24:03 I didn't get an answer, if you don't mind, on my question
24:07 about the added value of PAM in this government.
24:10 I'll come to that.
24:12 You can answer both of them, by the way.
24:14 I'll come to that.
24:15 Well, the added value of the party, and what you're saying,
24:19 is precisely that.
24:20 We're in the middle of it, we're in the middle of it.
24:22 There was an assessment that was made, at least in our party,
24:25 and we considered that despite all the efforts that have been made,
24:28 there is a...
24:30 especially if there is the new generation.
24:32 And the idea today is that this new generation
24:35 follows the public thing, or not, in different ways.
24:40 In a much more developed way than the current generation.
24:44 And so we had to evolve with this generation.
24:46 This generation doesn't speak of anyone.
24:49 And you can look at the networks, etc.,
24:51 what's happening in the square.
24:53 And so today, the PAM is back in action.
24:55 Instead of waiting, precisely, for 2026,
24:57 and say, "Yes, we failed, there were only 35 or 40 or 45 people who voted."
25:01 We said to ourselves, we're going to take things in hand,
25:03 we're going to try to propose a completely different offer.
25:05 To try to meet, not the expectations of 100% of Moroccans,
25:08 but to try to...
25:10 that the PAM, as a political party, with the other political components,
25:13 to propose an offer that will try to interest more Moroccans.
25:17 If we managed, for example, to reach 1.5 million or 1.4 million Moroccans,
25:21 our goal would be to go to 2, 2.5, 3, etc.
25:24 We never said that we were going to try to have 100% of Moroccan votes,
25:30 or that 100% of Moroccans would be with us.
25:32 It's not the question, it's not the thing.
25:34 And to answer, the added value,
25:37 that's also the added value of the PAM,
25:39 is that it constantly questions itself.
25:41 We don't have that problem.
25:43 Because, maybe we spent 12 years in the opposition,
25:45 and so this re-election has always been,
25:47 that's what made it so that there were 5 leaderships before this congress,
25:52 that there has always been a renewal,
25:54 not only in people, but also in ideas.
25:56 There is a constant evolution, because our society is constantly evolving.
26:01 You didn't answer my question.
26:04 Do you have an answer?
26:05 Half-mandate, half-mandate.
26:07 What is the added value of the PAM in this cabinet?
26:10 On a much more technical level,
26:12 half-mandate, if you want us to talk department by department,
26:16 on the Habitat issue, for example,
26:18 we managed to put in place something that is, I want to say, revolutionary,
26:22 insofar as there is a direct support today to the Moroccans,
26:24 to help them go towards Habitat.
26:27 It's something that was asked for, claimed by the population,
26:30 even asked by the PAM, because we were in opposition.
26:32 It's a royal decision.
26:34 It's a royal decision.
26:36 It's a royal decision, put in place by the government,
26:40 in the department of the PAM.
26:42 Today, on the cultural and youth side,
26:44 we once again put in place a youth pass,
26:47 which is appreciated by 85% of the youth who use it,
26:51 and which we will generalize on the national level.
26:53 We put in place a policy to defend Moroccan heritage,
26:56 whether at the national or international level,
26:58 that is, to value it and to do so,
27:00 and this is what I often remind,
27:02 to create an economic surplus,
27:04 a job creation,
27:06 a value-adding of what the cultural industry is.
27:08 The cultural industry in the world is well known.
27:10 The cultural industry in the world is far beyond the automobile industry,
27:12 far beyond the aviation industry, etc.
27:14 What is Morocco's share?
27:16 We are putting all this in place,
27:18 with very precise economic models,
27:20 with new industries that will enter Morocco,
27:22 including gaming, etc.
27:24 So there are things that have been done by this government,
27:26 and in particular by the PAM.
27:28 The social debate is the first...
27:30 I'm trying to answer...
27:32 For example, for culture,
27:34 it's true that there are many things that you have done in your department,
27:36 because for other departments,
27:38 it's usually royal programs
27:40 that are put into place and put into music by the government.
27:42 But the implementation is important, of course.
27:44 For example, at the level of culture,
27:46 to prepare the show, we will ask...
27:48 There are two closed theaters in Baia Casablanca for years.
27:50 And there is the nomination of the director of the CECM,
27:52 Center for Cinematography,
27:54 I will get there,
27:56 you promised that, you announced it in December...
27:58 Does it block anything?
28:00 I'm asking you the question, that's all.
28:02 It blocks nothing.
28:04 So we'll stay with the interim.
28:06 But these are things that are strategic in the Ministry.
28:08 The interim is strategic.
28:10 I announced it at the CECM,
28:12 that today we want to put in place a new regulation within the CECM.
28:14 And to put in place a new regulation,
28:16 there must not be blockages in relation to a management
28:18 that works with an old regulation.
28:20 And so today, the new code of the CECM
28:22 will pass, God willing,
28:24 in the next few months at the Council of Governments.
28:26 From there, once it goes to Parliament,
28:28 we will launch the competition to have a new direction.
28:30 It's very simple.
28:32 It's a vision.
28:34 It's useless to have a reform and even a blockage internally.
28:36 Why? Because the objective of this reform is what?
28:38 It's to have less administrative prerogatives
28:40 and to be able to free the cinematographic field.
28:42 And inevitably, sometimes...
28:44 You are innovating a lot, a collegial direction,
28:46 an interim director.
28:48 Let's continue.
28:50 No, that's not innovation, that's sarcasm from you,
28:52 I don't accept it.
28:54 No, it's not sarcasm, you answer.
28:56 It's sarcasm that he doesn't accept.
28:58 Because today, Alhamdulillah, the world of cinema in Morocco,
29:00 we will have 150 cinemas.
29:02 We have made the support for cinematographic products evolve.
29:04 No, I'm not asking you.
29:06 We have exceeded the billion...
29:08 I don't know the trial.
29:10 I don't know the trial of your action.
29:12 You let me finish.
29:14 I know about communication, by the way.
29:16 I'm asking you a simple question about a project.
29:18 It's not a simple question.
29:20 Because it's not simple.
29:22 Because when you put in place a reform,
29:24 you have to have all the advantages on one side.
29:26 And to have all the advantages on the other side,
29:28 you had to simplify the administration process,
29:30 which was demanded by the cinema professionals,
29:32 following 2, 3, 4 meetings with them.
29:34 It's the third year.
29:36 Let's go back.
29:38 It's not the third time I've been in government.
29:40 It's been 2 years and 3 months.
29:42 And this reform started
29:44 5 months after the government arrived.
29:46 And as you know, you've been there,
29:48 you've been following the political field for years.
29:50 The debate will go on.
29:52 The SGG with the other departments,
29:54 it takes time.
29:56 That's democracy.
29:58 Do you want a democracy?
30:00 You want unanimous decisions?
30:02 Democracy is first to debate with professionals.
30:04 We spent a year putting in place a discussion
30:06 with the professionals.
30:08 We spent a year discussing
30:10 only with the professionals.
30:12 And once we've finished with the professionals,
30:14 we move on to another level,
30:16 that is, with the other departments
30:18 that are concerned by the political field.
30:20 And it takes time.
30:22 Like the penal law,
30:24 like our law where there are discussions with the other departments.
30:26 No, sarcasm, no.
30:28 We need positive measures
30:30 so that we can move forward together
30:32 to make our country.
30:34 Let's go back a little bit,
30:36 because you're here with the pink cap.
30:38 Fatemeh Salam Ansari is still in the conference.
30:40 She said there was no crisis, no dysfunction,
30:42 but you were talking about fights, disagreements,
30:44 a number of things.
30:46 And then, who talked about fights?
30:48 I saw the video.
30:50 I was there, unfortunately.
30:52 There was a fight that was said in French.
30:54 In Arabic, in French.
30:56 In Arabic.
30:58 She's from Morocco, me too.
31:00 It's okay, we have the same language.
31:02 It's okay.
31:04 She's in her role.
31:06 But she talked about the political scene crisis.
31:08 Morocco is a country that is experiencing a political scene crisis.
31:10 After saying that dysfunctions,
31:12 by refuting the fact that there are dysfunctions,
31:14 after saying that dysfunctions
31:16 are parties that can't get together
31:18 in their provincial congress.
31:20 Dysfunctions are parties that don't want to hold their congress.
31:22 And the political scene crisis,
31:24 if we read that as a journalist,
31:26 well, there's electricity in the air
31:28 at the level of the majority,
31:30 so how does it happen?
31:32 And what is this political crisis?
31:34 That's what I said earlier,
31:36 it's the disengagement,
31:38 it's the disinterest of a new generation,
31:40 or rather Moroccans,
31:42 of the political apparatus and political parties.
31:44 And it's something that is real.
31:46 We're not going to hide today,
31:48 saying that everything is fine,
31:50 that Moroccans love all their political parties, etc.
31:52 No, there is a real subject,
31:54 to which the party is trying to answer humbly
31:56 with a new way of doing things,
31:58 a reorganization of its political apparatus,
32:00 and a presence, more presence,
32:02 on the territory. That's all.
32:04 On the political side,
32:06 with the other parties,
32:08 as you saw, all the parties were present
32:10 at the opening of the party,
32:12 cordially.
32:14 That's the tradition.
32:16 There was the opposition, there was the majority,
32:18 and that's how it is in a peaceful country.
32:20 But you say a country with a political scene in crisis,
32:22 that's what you want to know.
32:24 There is a cordial agreement with all the political parties,
32:26 and a perfect agreement with the majority.
32:28 The answer of your party,
32:30 contrary to what you say,
32:32 if you allow me, is not a humble answer.
32:34 Really?
32:36 Yes, I'll explain.
32:38 Your party came, it was created,
32:40 and it has a lot of projects,
32:42 notably the rehabilitation of politics
32:44 in the eyes of the citizens.
32:46 Absolutely.
32:48 This party has been in place for 15 years.
32:50 Do you think that there have been advances
32:52 in this problem,
32:54 while the coordinator
32:56 of your party
32:58 is drawing up
33:00 a very worrying picture
33:02 of the political field and the political scene?
33:04 The party, when it arrived,
33:06 indeed,
33:08 the problem that is being raised today
33:10 was raised in 2008,
33:12 and I consider that the party made an effort
33:14 in the sense that it opened the door
33:16 to a new generation,
33:18 including Fateme Zahra Mansoury,
33:20 including Aboul Rali, including myself,
33:22 including thousands of others who have assumed responsibilities.
33:24 I was, myself, at 24, 25 years old,
33:26 a critic of the political scene,
33:28 interested in politics,
33:30 but disinterested by the political parties.
33:32 And there was this movement,
33:34 this party, which convinced me
33:36 to join a party,
33:38 to bring solutions
33:40 to the problems of Moroccans.
33:42 This is what we have tried to do,
33:44 but we consider that it is not enough.
33:46 Why? Because we have done,
33:48 before talking about the political scene,
33:50 we started by saying that the party
33:52 has also made mistakes.
33:54 We talked about 2009, we talked about 2016.
33:56 We have no problem saying that a constant
33:58 questioning is beneficial
34:00 for the construction of a political apparatus.
34:02 Except that the project,
34:04 which I have closely followed,
34:06 is a project that has been,
34:08 regardless of the skills of the young people,
34:10 has been plagued by notables.
34:12 That's what I was saying.
34:14 That's why we criticized 2009.
34:16 So what are you doing today
34:18 to fix this situation?
34:20 First, we will define.
34:22 Notables, like activists,
34:24 there is good and bad.
34:26 To be clear, they are representatives
34:28 of the Moroccan population.
34:30 There can be good notables,
34:32 and there can be bad notables.
34:34 And reciprocally for the activists.
34:36 What we said in 2009,
34:38 at the time already,
34:40 a minority said that
34:42 we have made a mistake.
34:44 We had to first explain
34:46 and facilitate the political project
34:48 with which the MTD came at the time
34:50 and then the PAP in 2009.
34:52 To open up, to allow ourselves to say
34:54 we want to aim for the first,
34:56 the second, the third place.
34:58 The elections at the time were not
35:00 the first, the second, the third place.
35:02 It was the municipal elections.
35:04 That's what was corrected in 2011.
35:06 We came fourth with a parliamentary group
35:08 at 80%, to not make mistakes,
35:10 at 80% for the first time
35:12 in Parliament with the PAP ticket.
35:14 And the same mistake of 2009
35:16 was redone in 2016, as you know.
35:18 And again, we were criticized
35:20 on this phase.
35:22 And this time we were not a minority.
35:24 We were not a majority either,
35:26 but we were a large percentage of the party
35:28 that criticized this choice.
35:30 And that's why there was this debate
35:32 just after the elections.
35:34 And that's why there was the call
35:36 of Nader Moustakbel, etc.
35:38 There were two calls, etc.
35:40 There was a debate between 2016
35:42 until we were brought to the Congress of 2020.
35:44 So the party has always been a living party
35:46 that criticized its own decisions
35:48 with which it disagreed.
35:50 So I don't see where the problem is
35:52 in what you are saying.
35:54 Indeed, there is a leadership
35:56 that disagrees with its own decisions.
35:58 And that's not something
36:00 that is only linked to the party's organization.
36:02 There have been similar debates
36:04 in other political parties,
36:06 as you know very well.
36:08 You have been following the history
36:10 of political parties for years.
36:12 So there have been debates within the USFP,
36:14 the UNFP, the Stirling, the MP, etc.
36:16 Except that we have tried to keep
36:18 the party's political apparatus united.
36:20 What does that mean?
36:22 When a decision is made,
36:24 it is not a matter of a few days or months.
36:26 We accept the decision in part,
36:28 but the debate remains open,
36:30 the political debate.
36:32 And then we make a judgment
36:34 and we judge the leadership
36:36 that made this good or bad decision.
36:38 That's why I was telling you earlier
36:40 that compared to Aouaby,
36:42 he made an honorable exit
36:44 because we went all the way
36:46 to the end of the process he set up
36:48 with some criticism,
36:50 as I said before the Congress.
36:52 We forgot, as we said before,
36:54 now his exits have been criticized
36:56 even within the Congress.
36:58 But it's no longer the opposite.
37:00 And he didn't make decisions
37:02 unilaterally.
37:04 And that's the interesting evolution
37:06 that the party is experiencing.
37:08 There are no more unilateral decisions.
37:10 There is the decision of a group
37:12 and we assume this responsibility.
37:14 So to extend the question
37:16 of Mr. Mustafa Seymi
37:18 on your project,
37:20 it's been 15 years now,
37:22 or 16 years, 15 and a half.
37:24 And your project is your name.
37:26 It's the social reason
37:28 of the Pari Authenticité and Modernité.
37:30 At the level of modernity,
37:32 your former Secretary General
37:34 and the ministers of justice.
37:36 In terms of criminal code,
37:38 individual freedom, freedom of conscience,
37:40 alternative sentences, death sentences,
37:42 you've been in government for two and a half years.
37:44 - Yes, these are ongoing debates.
37:46 - And you've been defending these ideas for 15 years.
37:48 - I feel like you know
37:50 how this political field works.
37:52 And you know even more how it works
37:54 when you're part of a majority
37:56 and when you're in a social debate.
37:58 The laws you're talking about
38:00 are not laws about a party.
38:02 They're laws about the Kingdom of Morocco.
38:04 And so the party defends a social project
38:06 that is clear.
38:08 A concept of "Tchamrelebit"
38:10 which means that we respect the values of our country
38:12 but with an openness
38:14 about what's happening in the world.
38:16 The first thing is that there is a majority
38:18 with different positions
38:20 on different subjects.
38:22 When there is a similar position
38:24 on different subjects,
38:26 it goes faster
38:28 because the majority
38:30 debates more fluidly.
38:32 When there is a debate on certain points,
38:34 there is a debate within the majority.
38:36 "Quelle est l'éthique-là?"
38:38 It's first a majority.
38:40 Once the majority is over,
38:42 there is a debate with the opposition
38:44 within the civil society.
38:46 For example, what was put in place
38:48 by Sidnald Lanslow on the family code,
38:50 on the word "douane".
38:52 It's a debate not of the Minister of Justice
38:54 with his majority,
38:56 but it's a debate within the society.
38:58 But it's very good.
39:00 However, if you allow me,
39:02 we can't say that the Minister of Justice,
39:04 Secretary General,
39:06 came out of the PAM,
39:08 and showed a lot of ardor and pressure
39:10 to make the reforms,
39:12 I don't know.
39:14 I am an observer
39:16 who sees the text projects
39:18 that are coming.
39:20 But I attend the debates
39:22 within the government and the majority.
39:24 That's what I'm saying.
39:26 He defends with ardor and conviction.
39:28 Now there are things that are happening.
39:30 He has proposals,
39:32 he has projects, it doesn't advance.
39:34 I am an observer who sees the product
39:36 rendered at the public and legislative level.
39:38 We will say it differently.
39:40 The product is a 5-year mandate.
39:42 So we will put 5 years for the Penal Code reform.
39:44 Is it a 5-year mandate?
39:46 Yes, yes.
39:48 Sorry, sorry.
39:50 So, precisely,
39:52 I regret the slowness
39:54 of the Department of Justice,
39:56 and by the same slowness of this Cabinet,
39:58 for what is other reforms,
40:00 I don't go back to it.
40:02 There is a particular point
40:04 that I would like to highlight.
40:06 It is that the Minister of Justice
40:08 has proposed a bill
40:10 relating to the sanction
40:12 of illicit enrichment
40:14 saying it will be introduced
40:16 in the Penal Code.
40:18 Well, there is nothing of the sort.
40:20 Wait a minute.
40:22 We are stumbling in the corruption.
40:24 When you produce an emission,
40:26 you have a specific time to produce it.
40:28 I'm not going to judge you
40:30 when you are at half the time
40:32 given to produce the emission.
40:34 It's half the time.
40:36 It's not a direct question.
40:38 What Stapha doesn't say
40:40 is that once the law
40:42 is put in the Penal Code,
40:44 the process is over.
40:46 It's almost over.
40:48 Because there is a debate later on.
40:50 Because it's such heavy and hard laws
40:52 that there is a debate
40:54 in the sense that we talk
40:56 with the various bodies
40:58 within the majority, the civil society,
41:00 other professional bodies.
41:02 It's like the example I gave earlier
41:04 where I said I'm not going to propose
41:06 a law a week after we get to the government
41:08 because the professionals have to be involved.
41:10 The administration has to be involved.
41:12 Because the CCM,
41:14 we see that the CCM and the Ministry
41:16 which is behind the communications,
41:18 but different departments are concerned
41:20 by what is happening within the CCM.
41:22 So it's a debate to have.
41:24 And that's democracy.
41:26 Democracy needs time.
41:28 But if today you tell us
41:30 that we don't want this democracy anymore,
41:32 we would find it very serious.
41:34 It's the work that is being done
41:36 but the slowness of reforms.
41:38 It's the slowness of reforms.
41:40 We need time to get together.
41:42 Not with 100%, but together.
41:44 I'm going to ask you this question.
41:46 You have one of the best majorities
41:48 we can have.
41:50 You have practically two thirds.
41:52 But it's not because we have a majority
41:54 that we agree on everything.
41:56 It's Aziz.
41:58 You don't know what I'm going to say.
42:00 Let me finish.
42:02 When you decided to form this majority
42:04 of about 260 out of 395,
42:06 you decided and accepted to form it
42:08 with a party called the Stirlel
42:10 which has the ideology we know.
42:12 And the RNI which has its ideology
42:14 that we know.
42:16 And you agreed on a chart
42:18 of the majority.
42:20 And a program.
42:22 Or you didn't agree on that.
42:24 Or there was a quack.
42:26 Or what's the point of doing electoral campaigns
42:28 and promising less wonders to the population?
42:30 It's very easy to come today
42:32 and criticize the democratic process
42:34 of our country.
42:36 I'm not criticizing the democratic process.
42:38 I'm criticizing your way of seeing things.
42:40 I'm talking about the majority.
42:42 No, no, no.
42:44 At the level of the country, it's going well.
42:46 Why are you here?
42:48 It's Aziz.
42:50 A democratic process, once the elections are over,
42:52 it's like you said, an agreement on a government program.
42:54 That's what we did.
42:56 We can agree on 80, 70, 80%.
42:58 There are always issues that come up.
43:00 And beyond the majority,
43:02 that's what I'm explaining to you.
43:04 Every law that is issued by this government
43:06 concerns thousands, even millions of people.
43:08 It concerns professionals.
43:10 It concerns technicians.
43:12 We can't afford to come and say,
43:14 "I have my majority, I do what I want."
43:16 Even on a subject that interests you more directly,
43:18 on the press,
43:20 where there was a lot of debate,
43:22 on the subject of the election,
43:24 on the role of the CNP,
43:26 what decision will we make,
43:28 did I manage to get 100% of the body with me?
43:30 No.
43:32 But I considered that I had a majority with me.
43:34 You started the work.
43:36 And there were gains, there were results.
43:38 It's not what happened at the level of the justice system.
43:40 No, no, no, no, because the debate...
43:42 We went to the higher levels for the debate.
43:44 Quite simply, the debate was faster.
43:46 Because the body, and what is the body of a journalist?
43:48 When we talk about the body,
43:50 we don't talk about a body.
43:52 We talk about an entire society.
43:54 That's why I was telling you,
43:56 there are subjects that take more time than others.
43:58 There are departments that seem to be
44:00 faster than others because,
44:02 depending on the body...
44:04 We have nine minutes left.
44:06 Like the investment charge.
44:08 It's a process that...
44:10 We agreed as a majority, it's a much faster process
44:12 because the concerned,
44:14 whether it's the CGEM, the boss,
44:16 or even the unions,
44:18 there was a fast and evolutive debate.
44:20 If I may, it's not the fact that
44:22 democracy is slowing down.
44:24 It's a false debate.
44:26 What is at stake is the reformative capacity
44:28 of this government.
44:30 I can cite dozens of laws.
44:32 But I can also cite dozens of others.
44:34 Where there are no decree of application.
44:36 It won't go out like that.
44:38 Where there are no decree of application.
44:40 On health, Mr. Mustafa, have we been fast?
44:42 Yes, it was fast.
44:44 On the social aspect, have we been fast?
44:46 On the housing, have we been fast?
44:48 On the cultural aspect, have we been fast?
44:50 Because there was a royal watch.
44:52 That's why we had to speed up the pace.
44:54 And the sovereign gave delays.
44:56 It's still important.
44:58 The sovereign gave delays to this government.
45:00 Six months, the end of the year, etc.
45:02 That's how it accelerated.
45:04 Compared to other sectors
45:06 where there are no royal directives,
45:08 things are slow.
45:10 If you go to the old governments,
45:12 they pushed me to go to criticism.
45:14 What I didn't want to do was to go to the old governments.
45:16 There were also delays on projects.
45:18 The disbandment, for example.
45:20 There were no delays.
45:22 The old governments, where are we today?
45:24 Isn't it also a royal project?
45:26 Is it a failure or not of the old government?
45:28 Proof that we are today, we suffer.
45:30 So today, this government,
45:32 put in place the reforms they are doing.
45:34 At the same time, with a momentum,
45:36 remains stable compared to the past.
45:38 I do not deny that.
45:40 The death of the old government
45:42 is a problem.
45:44 I do not deny that.
45:46 I do not deny that there are delays on others.
45:48 But that does not mean that we will not do it.
45:50 We will devote the last 7,000 years
45:52 to the moralization you spoke about in your conference.
45:54 Another point, if you allow me.
45:56 Two things.
45:58 The first, which was not mentioned earlier,
46:00 is the problem of the management of this party
46:02 and the problem of cumulative.
46:04 The new coordinator of the Secretary-General
46:06 is in a situation
46:08 where there is a lot of pressure
46:10 on the government.
46:12 The Secretary-General is in a situation
46:14 of aggravated cumulus.
46:16 She is the mayor of an important city
46:18 like Marrakech.
46:20 She is the minister of a department
46:22 where there are four sectors.
46:24 And at the same time,
46:26 she is entrusted with the coordination
46:28 of the Secretary-General.
46:30 That is my first question.
46:32 That is why there is a collegial direction.
46:34 No, no, there is no time to answer.
46:36 We have 6 minutes.
46:38 A second point.
46:40 The problem of the moralization
46:42 of political life
46:44 was mentioned during the Congress.
46:46 It is true that the PAM,
46:48 it must be said,
46:50 has a number of its notables,
46:52 I will not mention names
46:54 because of judicial matters,
46:56 who are subject to criminal proceedings.
46:58 And that is something
47:00 that obviously leaves the citizens
47:02 in question.
47:04 And we have answered to this question.
47:06 I will continue the question,
47:08 please, before you answer.
47:10 We are not talking about the case
47:12 of what is happening in Casablanca.
47:14 But there are still people
47:16 who are incarcerated,
47:18 but it is up to the justice
47:20 to speak on this.
47:22 I am talking about elected officials,
47:24 of the four that you have
47:26 within the party,
47:28 who appear before the justice
47:30 for certain events or others,
47:32 for example the head of the parliamentary group.
47:34 And you have spoken about moralization,
47:36 and you have said that
47:38 the PAM will take strong and very fast steps.
47:40 Salah, Salah.
47:42 Salah, excuse me.
47:44 Are you going to take
47:46 suspension decisions
47:48 regarding these people,
47:50 to give a gauge of what you just said?
47:52 I have the impression that this show
47:54 should have been organized in one year.
47:56 Because right after the Congress
47:58 you were waiting for us to be able
48:00 to arrange all the program
48:02 that we proposed to the militants
48:04 in the Moroccan region.
48:06 Are you going to suspend these people
48:08 like this in other countries?
48:10 Let me answer.
48:12 We expressed our intentions
48:14 during the Congress,
48:16 during the press conference,
48:18 and we were very clear.
48:20 We will go, believe me,
48:22 as far as possible,
48:24 from the moment when there is evidence
48:26 that the justice has given its word.
48:28 There is no subject on this matter.
48:30 You will be in the legalities if you do not do this.
48:32 We will be in the legalities.
48:34 We will be citizens,
48:36 elected representatives,
48:38 future elected representatives
48:40 who will be representative
48:42 of this society.
48:44 This is our objective.
48:46 The message we wanted to give
48:48 with this collegiality
48:50 is that one cannot be responsible
48:52 for everything.
48:54 There are other responsibilities
48:56 when you are in the political party,
48:58 whether you are in the majority or in the opposition.
49:00 We will be in the collegiality
49:02 because teamwork will allow us to go further.
49:04 We will not depend on the calendar of one person
49:06 but on the vision of a group of people.
49:08 There are three people
49:10 who are leading the way today,
49:12 but believe me,
49:14 there are tens or even hundreds of people
49:16 who will work hand in hand
49:18 to reach our objective.
49:20 The ascending of the political scene
49:22 is one of these objectives.
49:24 Not the ascending,
49:26 the ascending is justice,
49:28 but the ascending will lead to an ascending.
49:30 A moralization.
49:32 The debate that was held
49:34 and the message of Al-Sidna Al-Ansar
49:36 in the 5th parliament...
49:38 Justice does its job.
49:40 The question is simple.
49:42 If you have people who stand up for justice...
49:44 If we moralize,
49:46 there will be no need to ascend.
49:48 Or the opposite.
49:50 Let justice do its job.
49:52 As a party,
49:54 are you ready to pronounce the suspension
49:56 of the parliamentary session?
49:58 Because if justice opens a case,
50:00 it is held and it is acceptable.
50:02 The complaint is acceptable.
50:04 I speak under your control.
50:06 Sometimes there is a no-go.
50:08 Not necessarily.
50:10 But we agree on the principle.
50:12 The presumption of innocence.
50:14 It is constitutional.
50:16 When there are many,
50:18 how many? 25, 30?
50:20 We are not always not.
50:22 There are 4 or 5 in the Ismaili party.
50:24 We have to put them in place.
50:26 I said it earlier.
50:28 The PAM can't be responsible
50:30 for the individual acts of people.
50:32 It happens internationally.
50:34 In the US, in Europe.
50:36 Never, ever,
50:38 the political party concerned
50:40 is put in question
50:42 regarding these matters.
50:44 It is the people.
50:46 And the political party afterwards,
50:48 whether elsewhere or here in Morocco,
50:50 takes precautions
50:52 so that there are less people
50:54 or more people of this kind
50:56 in the responsibilities,
50:58 whether electoral or partisan.
51:00 Let's be clear about that.
51:02 Because if there is...
51:04 The first one to suffer a problem
51:06 when there are such matters,
51:08 it is the political party.
51:10 Because we trusted a person.
51:12 We didn't trust him to commit crimes
51:14 or to commit crimes.
51:16 We trusted him to represent
51:18 the political party to the best of our ability
51:20 within a political party.
51:22 Even better, when we want to assume
51:24 an elective responsibility,
51:26 we have to serve Morocco and Moroccans.
51:28 So if there is a party
51:30 that suffers from this kind of problem,
51:32 it is the political party.
51:34 That's why, of course,
51:36 there is today, not a will,
51:38 but an obligation to moralize
51:40 at least the political aspect
51:42 within the PAM.
51:44 - You are Minister of Youth,
51:46 Culture and Communication
51:48 of the PAM's College Board,
51:50 with Fatemeh Zalamzouri
51:52 and Salahuddin Aboul Rali.
51:54 You have answered the questions
51:56 we asked you. Thank you, as usual.
51:58 Thank you, Mustafa Ashemi.
52:00 Thank you. See you next week.
52:02 (music)