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00:00 Yossi Mechelberg is associate fellow at the think tank Chatham House.
00:04 Thank you for speaking with us here on France 24.
00:07 Thank you for having me.
00:10 Listening to our correspondent, it sounds like we're further, not closer to a truce.
00:15 Well, I think sometimes in negotiations you have to go a bit backwards in order to make
00:20 a progress.
00:21 So that's exactly the question.
00:26 Everyone is trying to maximize their gains in this negotiation.
00:31 I think both sides understand, one hopes they understand the urgent need for a truce, for
00:39 the sake of the hostages, for the sake of humanitarian aid entering into Gaza, for the
00:45 sake of the Palestinian people that are under, experiencing war now and death and destruction
00:53 for four months.
00:54 So I think, and a war that can expand way beyond, already expanded beyond Gaza.
01:01 So if they start testing each other, it's quite normal in negotiation.
01:07 If there is a different agenda, whether by Hamas, that they feel that they are in the
01:13 ascendancy now, they got used to this kind of warfare and they can gain even more as
01:18 they see the pressure mounting on Netanyahu, or Netanyahu himself not interested in an
01:24 agreement because of his political situation, then we might be in a different situation.
01:31 Maximizing on both counts, would you say that Netanyahu and the Hamas leadership, neither
01:38 of them have an interest in ending the fighting?
01:41 Well, in a way they have interest, but on the other hand, it might also signal the end
01:47 of their political careers.
01:50 Because Netanyahu failed miserably on so many levels, even before 7th of October with his
01:59 assault on the Israeli democratic system, and then obviously with defending its own
02:04 people against the Hamas terrorist attack.
02:09 The leadership of Hamas at the end of the day not only committed this terrible atrocity,
02:15 but at the end of the day also brought on their own people terrible catastrophe.
02:21 Again, even if you, and I don't for one, justify the way the Israel conduct the war in Gaza,
02:28 the end result of it is the Gazan people are much worse than they were before October 7th.
02:34 So why would any of either Gazan people or Israeli would look to have this leadership?
02:40 And the only way that they stay in power is if the war continues.
02:45 So who can bring outside pressure?
02:50 The United States in front of the cameras, yesterday we heard Antony Blinken being asked
02:54 the question if he was too nice.
02:57 Who's the one who's going to put pressure on both sides?
03:00 So maybe Antony Blinken should be less nice.
03:04 And maybe it's time for the United States.
03:06 They already imposed sanctions on four settlers, which was not only about settler violence.
03:12 It was a signal to Israel that they have the tools in their toolkit to put pressure on
03:18 Israel if Washington wants to.
03:22 And maybe on this one as well.
03:24 There is no doubt that in Israel there is a need for a new leadership.
03:29 But at the same time, Hamas is not the organization or the political movement that provides the
03:36 Palestinians with an answer.
03:38 And we are in this tragic situation, part of it because of the lack of leadership on
03:42 both sides, that they are more invested in the conflict than in resolving it.
03:47 And that's why the role of the United States and the role of Egypt and the role of Qatar
03:52 and Saudi Arabia and other players in the international community is so crucial.
03:58 Let me ask you, because right now there's a lot of gridlock in Washington.
04:03 Now we know Ukraine is worried because the aid to Ukraine is suspended.
04:07 Aid to Israel is also suspended.
04:09 They thought yesterday the Republicans, they could pass aid for Israel without giving it
04:13 to Ukraine.
04:14 It didn't happen.
04:16 Should Israelis be nervous or not yet?
04:20 I think they should be nervous.
04:22 The longer the war continues, the longer the way they conduct the war, the way that the
04:28 cost is so heavy, the exact from Palestinians, this great international outcry, and without
04:36 obvious military achievements, then the international community has a very short attention span.
04:45 And we see it with Ukraine, and gradually we see it also with this war.
04:50 Now, there might be a silver lining that Israel will understand at the end of the day.
04:55 I mean, when I say Israel, I mean the Israeli government would understand that at the end
04:59 of the day there is no military solution as such, only political solution.
05:04 And time is of the essence to bring the hostages back.
05:08 But you know, I mentioned political leadership in Israel and Palestine, but there is a general
05:14 leadership crisis internationally, and that's the result of it.
05:19 And the United States is not exactly an example of functioning, or functioning political system
05:26 at the moment.
05:27 And sadly, probably as the election campaign proceeds, it will get probably worse.
05:33 Yossi Mechelberg, so many thanks for joining us from London.
05:36 Thank you.
05:37 (laughs)