Yourcinemafilms.com | Dani Moseley (Dreaming Whilst Black, The Kitchen) shares her experiences on set throughout the years, how Dreaming Whilst Black changed her career and finally accepting her worth as an actor!
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Are you ready for the truth?
Listen on:
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/0K6ugRFXfgZ4B3jeWEWQTU
Apple podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-your-cinema-podcast/id1712678244
’Welcome to Your Cinema'
Follow us on socials:
Tiktok: @yourcinemafilms
Instagram: @yourcinemafilms
Twitter: @yourcinemafilms
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FunTranscript
00:00 Now everyone's making it in film and TV, but we don't really know how. Here we uncover
00:07 the truth. Welcome to the Your Cinema Podcast.
00:12 Welcome to the Your Cinema Podcast today. This is the place where we explore the truth
00:17 about the film and TV industry, and we hear it directly from those who are smashing it
00:23 in their areas. This week we've got an amazing guest. She's a critically acclaimed actor.
00:30 It's Dani Mosley. She does video games, voiceovers. She's also one of the stars, the key stars
00:37 of Dreaming Whilst Black, as well as featuring in Daniel Kaluuya's upcoming project, The
00:44 Kitchen for Netflix. What's going on, Dani? How are you?
00:51 I'm all right. I'm all right, actually. I'm good. I am actually really good. As you just
00:57 said that, you know when someone asks you how you are, and the easy, it's like, yeah,
01:00 I'm fine. But it's just like, I never, I'm one of these people, I don't like saying that
01:03 because what is fine? I don't know what that is. So when someone asks me, I'm always like,
01:08 how am I? And I'm like, no, I'm actually, I'm really, I'm in a really good space. I'm
01:11 really good.
01:12 Wow. Okay. I'm going to ask you two questions off the back of that. First and foremost,
01:16 why are you in a really good place?
01:19 Because I'll be honest with you, this year has been really, it's been growth for me personally
01:27 in my life, and professionally in my life. And I don't usually get a balance. Usually
01:34 one's doing great and the other's not doing so well and vice versa. But this is the first
01:37 time in my life where they're actually balanced, and I'm just cool with everything. And I've
01:43 grown a lot in terms of myself inwardly, and in terms of what I want for my life, in terms
01:49 of what I want for my career, in terms of what I want generally with people around me,
01:55 industry wise and personally wise. So it's just been a very transformative year, I'd
02:03 say.
02:04 You know what, right? I guess I love that. And I'll come to my second point after we
02:11 cover this bit, right? Given that we're people first, and feel free, you don't even have
02:17 to answer this, if I'm honest, but when you say personal growth, what are those things
02:24 that have put you in a really good place personally? And the reason I'm asking is just because that
02:31 can trickle down to impacting your professional life.
02:35 Yeah, therapy, massively. Therapy, solitude, also, and that doesn't mean me being in a
02:46 dark room all by myself, that just means me actually just spending time with myself. I
02:51 journal anyway, that's something I always do, I think as a writer, it's just a natural
02:54 thing for me to do anyway. So I like doing that. But yeah, therapy, definitely. And yeah,
03:01 just having time with myself and journaling and realising things I didn't realise before.
03:06 And I'm like, oh, you've changed your perspective on that. When did that happen? How did that
03:13 happen? And actually being like, oh, wow, you're cool with that now. That's nice. Because
03:17 there's things in my life that have been going around and around. And I'm a very spiritual
03:22 person and having a Saturn return, for me Saturn return is like for a toaster, and the
03:26 toaster gets turned upside down, and all the crumbs get shaken out. And basically whatever
03:30 hangs on is what you'll have with you for the next 30 years. And then it's about what
03:36 are you willing to let go of? And what do you need, really? And what are you able to
03:39 accept that you're willing to let go of? And what are you not able to let go of? And I
03:44 went to the Maldives for my birthday in September.
03:47 Come on, that's alright, that's alright, innit?
03:50 And yeah, I was like, I deserve it, I haven't been on holidays in three years, so I'mma
03:55 go. And I knew the person that was going to the Maldives wasn't the same person that was
04:00 going to come back. There was things I was just going to let go of, and there was things
04:03 I was going to say goodbye to. And there's things that I was then going to implement
04:07 and allow space for. So that's started to happen.
04:12 Wow, do you know what? It's amazing, like it fills me with joy to hear someone, especially
04:24 an actor, right? Because it's such an emotionally challenging career. You know, I was going
04:31 to say role, but it's like, no, this is a career. So the challenges are every day, every
04:37 audition that you get and don't get. The rejection is one thing in itself, do you know what I
04:46 mean? Like whether someone's come out the gate and their career started there, and in
04:49 the next five years they haven't worked, or someone started and there's no work, and then
04:53 in 20, like, it's a lot. So just hearing you say that, I don't know, it just actually fills
05:01 me with joy because I know how rigorous it can be. So no, that's good to know. The second
05:08 question is, so I'm very interested in like, so if it wasn't, if you weren't having a good
05:17 day, how would you deliver that? And the reason why I say that is because two of our past
05:22 guests, Armani Simpson and CJ Beckford, they seem to be quite good at being able to articulate
05:29 that without giving off too much. Like, do you know what? No, it hasn't been the greatest
05:33 day, but you know, like how would you have answered that? And just from my own personal.
05:38 - How would I have answered that? Well, if I wasn't being interviewed, I'd just tell
05:41 you, because I can't keep a lid on my own mouth, so that's just ridiculous. But as I
05:46 am, I just be like, you know what? I'm getting through it. I'm getting through it. And that's
05:51 all I can do. And that is all I do. When times are hard, I just get through it.
05:57 - I love that. Thank you. All right. So, this wasn't the first time you came across my screen,
06:07 but Dreaming Whilst Black was amazing or is amazing. Yes, it's amazing. And you know,
06:15 hopefully we get loads more series and commissions. I say we, because I feel like it's my
06:21 project as well, even though we're cheering from the sidelines. But specifically with
06:26 your role, right? You are perfect for Amy, right? I don't know. I'm not sure. How else
06:36 can I articulate? Like you played Amy so well that I would think that that is how you actually
06:46 are. That's just for me, right? I want to know, how did that role come about for you?
06:56 Because you were there when it was independent. Do you know what I mean? And it's been a seven
07:02 year journey. So a lot of the times, people that are jumping on a bandwagon now and all
07:07 of that stuff, which is great, there was in the trenches before that. So yeah, I want
07:14 to know, how did that role come about for you?
07:17 So I had done a web series called Brothers of No Game, which I loved. And Ajani had seen
07:25 me in that and had been considering wanting me to audition for Dreaming Whilst Black web
07:31 series. Now I was also aware that being in a web series and one that was successful,
07:36 I had seen others that had done other web series and they were kind of just doing that.
07:41 They weren't doing that. And I was very much like, I don't want to be the web series girl
07:45 that you just see. And I'd done The Bill and Doctors and Extenders and I was just like,
07:49 that's not what, like I did it because there wasn't anything going on at the time around
07:53 2012 and I wanted to do something and it suited me and it was good and it was black and I
07:58 loved it. And so I only want to do projects that make sense to me. If I can have a career
08:04 that does that, they're all going to be ones that pay the bills. But if I can do ones that
08:09 make sense to me, then I want to do that. And so I went to an improvisation night that
08:15 a guy called Lionheart did with his two friends, Charles, called Subjectivity. And they were
08:21 having an improv night where they were just, it was like a games night and he was like,
08:24 oh, Danny, can you come and be the one person that each group will get to do acting with
08:29 and we'll throw something at you and you've just got to do it. And I was like, all right.
08:35 So I got up there and Ajani was in the audience and I was going from Nollywood producer to
08:41 Jeremy Kyle to being pregnant person, just all these different things I was just doing.
08:48 Met Ajani at the end, I was like, oh hey, whatever. And he was like, oh, I've got this
08:52 web series. And I was like, okay. Everyone does. And he was like, oh, I'd really like
08:57 you to audition. I would like you to audition for it. Personally, I would just like to give
09:01 you the role, but I'm with a team of people for Court Films and we've all said that everyone
09:05 has to audition. So I was like, yeah, that's fine. So I auditioned for Vanessa and I was
09:11 like, I mean, the project seems cool, but I don't really know much about it, but it's
09:19 cool. So anyway, then I knew I did a good job. So then I got the email and the email
09:23 says, unfortunately, and I thought, unfortunately, what? I thought this is long, but as that
09:33 line was that line, I saw there was more writing and I was just like, what, are you going to
09:37 ask me to support your web series and all this nonsense? I just thought this is long.
09:41 And I thought, let me just read the rest of the email. And I read it and it's like, unfortunately,
09:46 we can't offer you the role as Vanessa, but we'd love to offer you the role as Amy. And
09:49 I was like, who the frick's Amy? No one told me about this Amy and I didn't audition for
09:54 Amy, so who's that? So I was like, okay. And then it was kind of divine because at the
09:59 time that they were going to, I started to read some more of the scripts and I was like,
10:02 oh, this is really good at what they're talking about and what they're saying is great. But
10:06 they were supposed to be filming on a certain day that I couldn't do and they couldn't change.
10:10 So then Njani was like, well, could you find us an actor then? So I was like, yes. So then
10:18 I found someone and asked them if they could do it and they said, cool. But then this date
10:22 was supposed to happen and I had another friend that was going to be filming it. So then he
10:26 called me and he was like, oh, what's happened? I can't find where I'm supposed to be and
10:29 I don't know where everyone is. And I was like, oh, I don't understand. So I messaged
10:32 Njani and said, oh, my friend's trying to find out where you lot are. And he was like,
10:35 oh, did you not get the message? We're not filming today. We had to cancel it. We should
10:38 have emailed him and like, you should have got that. I'm really sorry. And I was like,
10:41 oh, you're not filming? And he was like, no, no, we couldn't do it today. And I was like,
10:45 oh, so you're filming another time? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, when? So he
10:48 told me the date and I was like, I mean, I'm free now. So then I was like, my other friend,
10:54 you don't need to do it anymore. I'm good, girl. I get this. So then I was doing Amy.
10:59 So then we did the web series. That did really well. Loved it. Brilliant. And then we won
11:05 like, what was it? 36 awards worldwide. That was amazing. And then obviously BBC got involved
11:11 and then Big Deal got involved. Big Deal got involved, then BBC got involved. And then
11:15 I remember Adjani was kind of avoiding me for like two weeks. I was messaging him,
11:21 but he wasn't really replying to me. But then he was replying to me on Twitter. And I was like,
11:24 bro, don't reply to me on Twitter about something not interesting. Why have you not been replying
11:29 to me? And he was like, oh, I've got to tell you something. So I was like, I'm thinking,
11:33 oh no, they're not going to do DreamWorks. Like, what's happening? He was like,
11:36 they want you to audition for your role again. And I was like, oh. I was like, well, can't you?
11:44 Like, I've told them, I've said to them, can't you just watch the web series? She doesn't need
11:47 to audition. Like, she's Amy. That's who picked it. So he was like, long story short, if you don't
11:54 audition, then they won't consider you. So I was like, all right. So then I auditioned. And I
12:01 remember there was a woman there at the time in the room when I went in, and she was looking at
12:04 me funny. And she was like, hey. And I was like, hey. And I thought she was looking at me funny
12:08 because it's been like, oh, I haven't seen you in so long. But afterwards, I saw in hindsight that
12:13 she looked at me like, I'm going up for your role, so why are you here? This is awkward. OK.
12:19 But I didn't. So I went in there, did the job, did well, because I got picked.
12:25 So then we did the table read. Table read went well. Everyone loved it. And then my agent called
12:31 me. I was like, hey, Danny, nothing to panic about. They're just going to put your role out again
12:37 because they just want to check that they've got everybody that they want to see.
12:42 And that's when I started to have anxiety attacks because I was like, what? Like, I had the web
12:50 series. You saw that. I auditioned for you. You picked me. We saw that. We did the table read.
12:56 We got the pilot commissioned. You were all there. You were part of that. But I still, in my head,
13:03 it was like, I'm still not good enough. And I remember when I heard that, I cried because I
13:09 was just like, I don't know how much more I have to do to prove to you that I can play this role
13:14 because what more do you need to see from me? I don't understand. And so then I had to wait two
13:20 months until they'd seen who they wanted to see and deliberated and then finally got told. And
13:28 Lester Johning is my friend. He called me. He was like, I've just had the meeting. You've got the
13:32 role. And I was like, until my agent tells me, I can't really hear that because I need to officially
13:38 hear it. But then she did. And then that was for the pilot. So, yeah, that was tough. But
13:47 I'm sure everyone's happy now that I got that role because everyone seems to enjoy the performance I
13:53 did. And I'm just like, you know, it's divine in the sense of it was always mine. And it's a bit
14:01 sad that I had to keep proving that, but it was mine. So, you know.
14:05 Okay. So I wasn't expecting that. And first I want to say thank you for your transparency and
14:16 honesty, because that sounds quite traumatic, if I'm honest. Like,
14:23 I'm not even going to pretend that I know the extent to what you've gone through, but
14:34 I just want to understand, right? Especially because there's two aspects, right? There's
14:43 you being friends with Rajani and then there's the show going to another level and other people
14:48 having a say, right? But in you being friends with Rajani, because you've been on that
14:54 trajectory for so long, like I'm guessing that's at least four years, maybe four to five years
15:00 before we even get to the pilot, right? So you're Amy. Do you know what I mean? You've been on the
15:07 shoots, the edits, maybe there's reshoots, the things that have gone wrong. It's like,
15:12 you know, that camaraderie has been built. You mentioned that anxiety, you started having
15:19 anxiety attacks, right? Could you unpack that a little bit? - Just because I just kept hearing
15:29 whiffs of things. And I didn't know when I was hearing these whiffs, if that was, it's yours or
15:36 it's not yours. And I remember I would have black actors and black actresses message me and be like,
15:43 "Yo, Dan, you must have some big job because I'm going up for Amy in DreamWorks Black, this is mad."
15:49 And I'm just like, "Yeah, good luck, babe." Because I can't say anything. I can't say, "No, no, no,
15:57 I'm going up for it with you." And actually I just have to wait. So being in a position of,
16:03 you want your friends to do well, but it's your role. So that weird feeling of, "I want you to
16:10 do your best and I want them to see what you're capable of doing, but you're going up for my role,
16:16 that's mine." And that weird mix of supporting your friend, but also, or supporting your colleague,
16:25 I'd say, my own friend, but also having that feeling of, "But it's mine." It's the, "I've
16:31 never been for it, I never want to go for it again." But it was the weirdest feeling to be in.
16:35 And I remember my partner at the time was just like, "Well, you'll get another job. You're good,
16:41 you'll be fine." And I was like, it made me realize this isn't a paycheck and this isn't
16:47 a credit on my CV. This show is a movement. And I was part of it and I deserve to continue to be
16:55 part of it. And it's part of my ethos in the stuff that I do creatively wise, which is creating
17:00 positive change and doing that through telling stories. And this is that. So for that, I was
17:06 just like, I don't believe that I was only just supposed to do the web series, but hey,
17:10 I also knew that if it wasn't mine for whatever weird reason, if it really wasn't mine,
17:14 I said to Ajani, "I will support it. I will share it. I will da da da. I can't promise I'll watch it,
17:21 but I'll support it." Because it was like, that's a part of me that's been ripped away and I don't
17:28 understand why. So yes, I was just very much like, whenever he called me, I didn't know if he was
17:35 calling me to say yay or to say, oh, just to let you know. So then I just had to say to him, "Look,
17:40 I know this is really weird, but could you just not call me until this is all done? Because
17:45 it's horrible." And yeah, it just wasn't nice. And I just didn't, I didn't know that the industry,
17:51 I'd never been in that position before. I didn't even know that could happen. I was kind of like,
17:55 well, if someone's played it before and someone's also auditioned and you've accepted,
17:58 what is this? We're still just going to see if there's any other Black actress out there that
18:04 could possibly do this. And I was just like, am I not good enough? I was like, have I got this all
18:10 wrong? Am I not as good an actor as I thought I was? Yeah, it was tough. It was tough.
18:17 Okay. This is, it's deep because as you're telling it, it's like Ajani is really riding for you,
18:26 but then his hands are tied and it's like, do you know why it's deep? Yeah. Because,
18:35 so the, I think the first thing that I saw you in, or one of the first things that I saw you in
18:45 was a short film called Finish Line, right? So, I saw that, I don't know, I don't think
18:54 Dreaming Whilst Black came out before then, but I remember seeing you in that and, and I thought
19:00 the quality of the short film, I thought, oh yeah, that was good. That was good. And the reason I say
19:05 that right is because there's like two, there's like two main routes with acting in it. It's like
19:12 you do like independent stuff and then, you know, someone sees you or you have a, you have a good
19:18 agent and then you, you get the jobs, right? And in, in you being an emerging actor up until this
19:29 point, up until that point, right, of getting this pivotal role, I know from all of our other
19:36 interviews and chats with, with loads of actors, I know what it's like when it's like, you just
19:42 want the break. You just need that in. You just need that serious credit to tip the kind of roles
19:49 that, that, that, that you're getting, right? And you, especially being a black female, not that
19:57 it puts you at a disadvantage, right? But from statistics and stuff that I've read, like,
20:05 the roles that black females play is changing now, but typically they've been very, very
20:11 extremely stereotypical on like big projects. So I can't imagine the magnitude of the impact that
20:21 had on your mental health. I know mental health is like a buzzword, but what you're explaining is
20:26 like some, some genuine mental challenges that you probably weren't facing before, which is.
20:37 And I think it was just, it was also a case of how do you ever become a name if no one gives
20:43 you the chance to be one? Like when, when does that happen? So I was just like, I don't know
20:51 what I did. I literally, there was just nothing I could do. I was just like, it was, it was the
20:56 first time I just like, I really just have to leave this up to the ancestors, universe, wherever
21:03 it is to just make, because my whole thing is I want the project because I believe in Dreamworks
21:07 Blacks and Whites. I want it to have the right people involved. I don't want it. And if it isn't
21:11 me, I can't, there's no fiber in my body that makes me explain why it is me because I believed
21:17 it was, but I was like, but if for some weird reason it's not, then I'll take it on the chin.
21:22 But I was just like, I don't feel like it's not me. So that's why it was so confusing. But like
21:28 I say, I got it. The, the, the, the yay part of it is that I got it. And I don't know if I had
21:35 that experience to prepare me for something else that might happen in the future. Like,
21:38 I don't think anything happens by accident. But I'm also know that like, that I was having a
21:43 conversation with my friend today about proving yourself in the industry. Like you get to a point
21:47 where you're just like, I'm not, I'm not doing that anymore. I don't need to prove to you that
21:52 I'm good at this. Like I've got enough to prove I'm good at this and people still want me for
21:57 things. So I know I'm good at this. So this isn't about my ability. It's about other people's
22:02 perceptions and what they believe the people want to see or what they think is going to be sellable
22:07 or viable that you don't have control over, you know, you just have to trust that the right person
22:13 can see all the components and trust the people in the project that saying like, I'm telling you,
22:18 it's this person, trust me, it's this person that they listen. Cause I don't know who else,
22:22 it could have not worked out for me. And I don't know who that actually has happened to,
22:26 cause I'm sure it has happened to somebody. - Do you know what? It just sounds, it sounds like,
22:31 all right, this is, it sounds wrong to put someone through that. If I'm honest, I get the first
22:41 audition cause it's like, all right, cool. You guys did that. That's great. But we're putting,
22:46 I don't know, hundreds of thousands, millions of pounds, whatever the budget is into this. So,
22:51 you know, we have a say, all right, cool. I get that. But then to cast someone and then to just
22:57 give them the runaround, I think there's a, a, a, a sense of personal care that, you know,
23:07 people should have. It's even making me think just a little bit more about like, okay, you know,
23:12 make sure that you're treating people right because they're not actors, they're people first,
23:17 innit? Man. Okay. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. So how, all right, I'm going to ask you something, right?
23:26 Being a black female, cause I've never heard this, this runaround story before, right? Being a black
23:31 female, do you think that puts you at a disadvantage or there's some sort of difference
23:43 in the way that you're treated or regarded? Well, I, well, yes, obviously as a black actor in
23:53 Britain, yes. In, you know, in whatever gender or non-binary, yes, as a black person. And I don't
24:00 know the reasons. I can speculate and say why I think it happened. I don't actually know because
24:05 I've never had the conversation with that, with anyone to do with who was in the decision-making.
24:10 They made the decision and now we are where we are now. They made the right choice. But yeah,
24:16 like I've definitely, I've gone up for things before, before DreamWorks even existed, where
24:22 I was doing the build-ups and the extenders and I was doing all those types of things and
24:26 seeing mixed race women or light-skinned women or women with straight hair. I remember an actor,
24:32 and I don't, he was, he was giving me advice and I get why he was doing it, but I remember when
24:37 things, I was having a lull after 2013 and hadn't, and I wasn't, I had like a three-year period where
24:44 I didn't work. I had three auditions in three years, didn't work. And he was suggesting to me,
24:49 or maybe you want to look at the headshots of actresses that are doing really well and try and
24:55 simulate yourself with how they look so that when casting directors are looking, they pick you as
25:00 well because they're picking these people. Sounded quite straight back. But I noticed that these
25:04 black women had permed hair, had weaves, and I was just like, I've got Afro hair and I don't really
25:13 want to be doing that. And I'd stopped straightening my hair from like 2012. So I was like,
25:17 I don't really want to start doing that. And actually, if I keep doing that, that's all we're
25:22 ever going to see. And I have to trust that, I have to believe that there is a world where we can have
25:27 Afro hair, which is why, again, playing someone like Amy meant so much to me because I know
25:32 when I was doing Dream Nuts Black, the web series, I was doing different hairstyles and showing the
25:37 different stuff that Afro hair can do. Obviously, when it got to TV, they had bigger budgets,
25:40 other people do my hair. But it was just like, it's all about, for me, Dream Nuts Black helps
25:46 to normalise things that we don't see a lot of so that people do understand that there's a different
25:51 array of Black people living in different array of lifestyles. There are spaces for the Top Boys
25:58 and there are spaces for the Blue Stories and there's spaces for Dream Nuts Black because
26:03 Black people experience isn't one thing. There's a bunch of us and we see loads of whites and
26:09 different, we see the period dramas and we see the Westerns and we see the crime dramas and we see
26:15 the medical dramas and we see so many different walks of life of white people in Britain. It's
26:20 just like, so why do we not see that in Black culture? Why is it that I haven't seen a Desmond
26:25 since Desmond's been out? We're still here, we're still doing that. It seems that sometimes the
26:33 industry latches onto a genre and thinks that's it, we're wrong with that. And for people that do
26:37 not know what Black culture is like and do not have Black friends, it's important for them to
26:42 see different kinds of Black people. Because I went to university and I remember on my last night
26:48 in my third year, a white friend of mine was drunk and was like, "You know what, Dani? Before I came
26:53 to uni, I thought all Black people just stabbed everyone and shot and just did drugs but you're
27:00 nothing like that." I was like, "Yeah." But I also get he comes from a place where he doesn't have
27:09 Black people around him. So whatever the TV is showing him, that's all he knows. So let's see
27:15 more multi-faceted Black people on TV so we know that we're not so estranged or it's not so
27:22 fantastical. There are other stuff going on. So I like the fact that we've had...
27:27 There was something on social media where someone was saying that they were tired of the Top Boys
27:33 and they were tired of all sorts of stuff. And then they were saying, "Why aren't Black creatives
27:36 doing more to do more everyday stuff?" And a lot of the Black creatives were like, "We are, but
27:41 actually it's hard to get through if that's what the commissioners are saying that they want more
27:46 of. They want more of those types of gang culture. They're going to do more of that." And actually,
27:52 we can't pretend that it wasn't the Top Boys that got us through to this point. Let's not pretend
27:57 that that didn't happen. Everything has an evolution. So we actually needed that to then
28:04 get in the rooms to then start doing other stories for those commissioners to trust those Black
28:09 creatives that they can do stories and they can do it well and they can get the viewership and
28:12 then trust them to do other stories. So it's all symbiotic and it's all needed and helpful.
28:17 I love that. I love that. I love that you're switched on with the greater...
28:29 what's the word? Perception is not the word. The ripple effect of
28:33 doing a role and a project. Because sometimes it can be like, "Look, I just want to land this role.
28:42 Yeah, the project's great, but I want to land this role because that's going to help me to get there
28:46 like to this next level of my career, et cetera." So yeah, I love that you're very aware of that,
28:55 which I think is very important. For me personally, I just think that's very important.
29:00 I've been doing it for a long... This is my 15th year coming into my 16th year now of doing this.
29:07 Yeah, I've been doing it for a while and I'm just like, I don't need to be crack whore number four
29:12 anymore. Not that I was ever doing that, but I was just... I was going to say.
29:16 That's just not... But I've had agents in the past that have said, "Hey," and I'm just like,
29:21 "No." And they're like, "Yeah, but it's working with this person and it's on this channel."
29:26 And I'm like, "Listen, someone else that wants to get into the industry and wants to get a chance,
29:31 let them go for that role. I'm not doing that. There's enough of us around. I don't need to
29:36 do that. So no, I don't want to do it." And I'm allowed to not want to do it.
29:41 Oh my... Yeah, I love that stance. I wish a lot more people had that, but hey,
29:50 each to their own. Yeah, right, because people will dangle money at you and people will dangle
29:54 exposure and all of that sorts of stuff. And you want to eat and you want to be in those rooms. So
30:00 yeah, you will do it. So I don't look down on anyone that goes for it. And actually those roles
30:04 are there, so someone's going to do it. Fair days, fair days. So, for me, I really love Amy's role
30:16 because I know a lot of females like that. Across my life, I've seen... It's like, "I know Amy. I
30:27 know that Amy. I know you. I know you. And I haven't seen you really like that." There haven't
30:35 been that many Black shows, do you know what I mean? So I've seen it more in my life than I have
30:40 on TV or a screen, especially because there's not an explosive thing about Amy.
30:53 And I'm just like, "I get it. I know who you are." So I remember when I first watched Dreaming
31:03 Whilst Black, I was like, "Okay, cool. I know Amy, but something's going to happen between Amy and
31:10 Ajani because it's the love triangle, innit?" I really thought because it's like the friends
31:17 who maybe go a bit too far. I thought, "Yeah, cool. That's going to happen. Cool, cool, cool."
31:24 And it didn't. And I was like, "Oh my days." That's even better because a lot of the time,
31:34 that's who the Amy's have been in my life. They're just the nice female that just wants to help and
31:42 get you to where you're going. And it's purely platonic, right? In and amongst all the amazing
31:49 storyline you had where you were conflicted at work and all of that stuff. I wanted to know,
31:54 so that's just my personal perception, but I wanted to know for you, what was the importance
32:00 of Amy in terms of how black women are perceived? - Well, it's important that I think showing
32:09 platonic friendships is important. I think it doesn't have to be like you're only close to
32:14 someone if you've slept with them. And don't get me wrong, it could be start off like you might
32:18 think, "Oh," and then it's just like, "Oh, actually, we're just friends." I also think being
32:23 a creative and being a black creative, our network supporting each other is important.
32:27 And having that space where you can just be like, "This isn't working the way that Uni told us,
32:35 or this isn't working the way that it's working for him. I don't understand." And us being like,
32:38 "Tell me about it, bro. I get it." Having those spaces and having that community that get you
32:43 and understand you in the way that other parts of your friends and family don't understand you and
32:48 get. And also, again, we haven't had many shows that in a comedy drama have shown... I think
32:58 something that you said that made me laugh is when you were like, "I know Amy. I know her."
33:03 It's so funny because when people see me out on the street, they're always like, "Where do I know
33:09 you from? Where have... Who's... Do you meet?" And obviously, then we talk and then they're like,
33:15 "Oh my gosh, no. Of course, DreamWorks Black. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry." But I find it...
33:19 Considering people have noticed me from other things, people have known me from Brothers No
33:22 Game, people have known me from The Bill, from other stuff I've done, it's the first time that
33:27 people have been like, "No, I know you." So I find it endearing that people are just like, "No,
33:33 Amy is someone that I know. I know her. That woman's in my life." And I don't think many people
33:42 can watch things and be like, "No, no, no, no. That's... I know exactly who that is." It's not a...
33:47 They can recognize it and see it and notice it, but it's just very funny that people are always
33:51 like, "Where have we... Because we must have parlayed or something." And I'm just like,
33:57 "I don't know who you are." And they're like, "No, because I feel like... I don't know. Were
34:01 you in Act One?" I'm like, "Yeah." And they're like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I don't know
34:05 what I thought." And I'm like, "No, no. It's fine. It's fine." But it's really endearing and it's
34:08 sweet. And it's also bittersweet when I get DMs from people saying to me, "Oh my gosh, I loved Amy.
34:14 I loved your character. It was triggering as heck, but... Because that's my life." And then you're
34:20 just like, "Yay that you resonate and you feel seen, but I'm sorry that this is what you feel
34:26 seen for." And that's name-branding. But also people also realizing that I'm not alone. It's
34:32 just... It's not I'm not the only black person in the office that feels like this, actually.
34:35 A lot of us in the office feel like this, which isn't great, but we're not alone,
34:39 which means we can be there to support each other. And I think, again, Amy being able to express
34:46 herself through her hair, something that the hair and makeup team, which I really want to big up,
34:50 costume, Jodie Simone and her team, and big up Cynthia De La Rosa and her hair and makeup team,
34:58 because I've never been in productions where they want to say something without words. You've got
35:03 the script and that's your words, but actually how can you say things that don't need it? So Jodie
35:09 Simone using costume to say things like the Grenfell t-shirt and having jewelry that says
35:17 "enough is enough" when I was talking to my boss at the end, just little things like that. And also
35:23 in terms of hair and makeup, my hair gets bigger through the episodes. I don't know if you even
35:29 noticed that. And that was like, I'm getting more confident. And also my color scheme and my clothing
35:35 gets more louder and gets bigger and brighter because Amy's starting to come out of herself
35:39 and being like, "I'm done with you lot." So just little things like that, that you're just like
35:43 these little things that you wouldn't notice, but actually when you think about it and watch it,
35:47 you think, "Wow." And that comes through in terms of, as well as the script, as well as the acting,
35:52 but actually those things as well. And I will also say, I'm so grateful to those two teams,
35:58 especially for me, because I've never been on a set. Well, I've done some stuff afterwards,
36:03 but I've never been on a set so much where all I've had to worry about is my acting.
36:07 I'm always worrying about my hair, that gel thing looks a bit weird, why they put that in my hair,
36:15 and this top's a bit tight, and when they're doing this, and who wears bell bottoms at this point,
36:19 all of these sorts of stuff. I've always like having to worry and like checking the mirror and
36:23 check, "Look, this person, does that look okay?" So I can't focus on my lines. I can't focus on my
36:27 intentions. It's all this other stuff. Whereas Dreamworks is the first show where I have just
36:32 been able to go on set and be myself. And I'm going to say that that's my performance. When
36:38 all you have to worry about is acting and you, you can fly, you can have fun, you can express
36:44 yourself and be who you want to be because that's all you have to worry about. And there is not
36:47 many jobs that I can say that. So I feel like my performance is due, as well as the writing,
36:54 obviously, and the other actors, but it's due to those departments.
36:57 I've never, you said something that I've never thought of, right? I've never, because we hear
37:05 the, we hear the hair conversation, do you know what I mean? It's been going on for like about
37:09 a year or two where it's like, you know, "Oh, we need black hair and makeup." And I'm not even
37:15 saying it in a way to trivialise it. It's like, no, it's really important because
37:22 actors who aren't black have that and it's, and it works fine. But then now we have to do our own
37:28 stuff. And as, as, as well as act, I've never thought about it from the perspective of if I
37:35 have to focus on other things other than my performance, my performance is actually going
37:41 to be affected. So basically it's even more, it's, it's more important than we realise,
37:48 or I would ask you, like, is it more important than we realise? Because essentially black actors,
37:58 when black hair and makeup isn't sorted, you're now affecting our performance.
38:03 Yeah. Because I, you don't know if you've been, had a traumatic experience
38:07 on set before you go on set. I mean, you know, if someone made you feel rubbish about yourself
38:15 and you knew you had to do a presentation, do you think you would do a better job doing a
38:19 presentation if someone made you feel rubbish about yourself before you went on that stage?
38:23 Or do you think you'd do a better job if actually everyone empowered you and bigged you up and made
38:27 a better version of yourself? Which presentation do you think in that scenario is going to bring
38:32 the best outcome for you? And if you've been in the makeup room and you're crying before you have
38:38 to go on set, or you're redoing your makeup in your trailer before you have to go on set,
38:43 or the clothing that you're wearing is too tight. And so you're not thinking about your lines,
38:48 you're thinking about how that waistline is now pinching into you. And also realising that the
38:52 shape of your body is not the shape of the clothes they've got for you, because they just
38:56 assume that everybody's body shape is the same. So just, this is what it is. And not,
39:00 and another beautiful thing is the hair and makeup and costume team, they spoke to me
39:05 about what their ideas for Amy were. And they asked, they asked my opinion, whether they use
39:10 it or not, or whatever, but we had a conversation. Like Jodie Simone's mood board for Amy was just,
39:15 I was like, what? This is crazy, this is mad. And then even to have a tweet of someone saying,
39:23 Amy's giving Issa Rae a run for her money on this hair thing, man. But I was like, I will take that.
39:29 I will take it. Because, yeah. And I was just, but again, on British TV,
39:33 when do we see that? When do we hear that? When is that really a discussion that we talk about?
39:39 People are talking about my performance, but they're also talking about my hair and they're
39:42 talking about costume, which they, just doesn't happen. You don't watch shows and have conversations
39:47 about what people look like, as well as their performance. Like, yeah, there's a lot of flowers
39:51 on this project, honestly. - Oh my days. You said something, you said, you said, you said,
40:01 you said like crying in your trailer before you have to go on, right? And I just realised something
40:09 that I think that put into perspective is like, when you land an acting job, right, it's a big
40:16 deal. And out of the however many days or years that a person hasn't worked,
40:25 it's like, okay, now this is my time to perform. And you've got me looking like a clown.
40:32 Like you are, you don't even realise that you're messing up my role on this job that may make these
40:45 people think that I'm not good and is going to impact wherever I get other jobs. Like, don't,
40:51 I just, when you said that, I was like, oh, it is that deep. - Yeah, it is. It really is. And also
40:58 like, let's not get twisted, social media, people talk. - Yeah. - Someone's talking about a scene
41:05 and there's more tweets about the fact that your wig is off point than they are about your
41:11 performance. What are we doing here? - Yeah, you're right. You're right. Wow. Okay. All right.
41:21 So, Amy, Amy, Amy, Amy, I want to know how has playing Amy impacted your career? - I,
41:36 it's done wonders, honestly. It's done wonders. It's got me, American representation.
41:43 And I didn't even apply, like they came to my agency in the UK. Yeah, they came to us and was
41:51 like, we want her. And they had, that was off of the hype, that was off of the reviews. And then
41:58 I, my agent has cut up some scenes from Dreamworlds, like, and put it on my showroll. So
42:02 when she spoke to the person, she was like, oh, so you enjoyed the series? And he was like, oh,
42:08 I haven't seen it. And she was like, sorry. And he was like, oh, no, no, like, I've heard the hype,
42:11 I've read the reviews and I saw her showroll. So I've seen the scene she's done. I get it. She's
42:15 great. Yeah. Let's talk. And I was just like, whereas Danny, who's wanted to be an actor since
42:22 she was eight years old, he's been clamouring, getting, trying to like, da da da da, I would
42:28 like to be in your agency. Like, there's, you know, all of that. And I'm just thinking, wow,
42:31 that just happened. I'm being seen for bigger and better roles. I'm having casting directors
42:37 tell me that they're fans of mine now. Like, it, it literally, I knew what Dreaming What's
42:43 About could be for me, because I knew what I could give to it, which is why it hurt when I had to
42:48 wait, when they weren't sure about me. And also I knew once I got it, I was going to show you why
42:55 I got it. And I, but I, I didn't even know the reception that it was going to get, because even
43:03 when people tell me that they think it's great and all these sorts of stuff, for ages, I was just
43:07 like, I don't understand. I was talking to my best friend. I was like, I don't understand why everyone
43:11 keeps saying that it's so good. I don't get it. And then I realised, because people don't know
43:17 what I can do. And actually, I always thought like a big performance and a like a well done was like,
43:25 I'm crying, I'm emotional, I'm breaking down. My best friend was like, and you're learning that
43:29 it ain't that. Actually, when you're just truthful in the performance that you do, that's enough.
43:36 That will resonate, that will engage, and that's enough. And I was like,
43:41 oh yeah, which is what I try to do all the time. Okay.
43:44 Nice. You see, and that is why we love Amy, because we know her because you played her
43:53 truthfully. Do you know what I love? You know, sometimes you feel something, and you just get
44:01 something, but I think you just articulated that amazingly, or you and your best friend. Because
44:08 one, for me, one of the like, one of the realest actors, right, is Shaq B. Grant,
44:16 because he does that. What you just said. I love him. I love him so much. He's so great.
44:21 I worked with him on everything I know about love, and he's just, from when I met him, I was like,
44:24 you're in my tribe. Like, we're in the same, like, I love him. I love him.
44:31 He is like, like, he can be anyone, upper middle class, from the hood, whatever,
44:39 and you believe it. It's like, like you said, it doesn't have to be a huge performance,
44:45 and I'm sure he can do that. I'm sure you can do that. But it's like, it's not just that,
44:49 because acting is portraying life, and so then life has to be truthful. And like, yeah, that is,
44:56 thank you for helping me find those words. Okay. Amazing, amazing, amazing. So I wanted to know,
45:02 right, like you mentioned, like, with, like, having a mood board from costume and, and, and
45:10 having, like, discussions with hair and makeup, etc. Right. I want to know, like, when you get a
45:18 role, how much are you able to bring you to the character? Because I know Dreaming Whilst Black
45:26 is one thing, and that's a particular, like you said, it's a movement. It's not just a project,
45:33 right? Hence, the, the back and forth in terms of input that you were able to give.
45:41 But is that a normal thing? Like, and, and if not, how do you, and is it important for you to bring
45:50 yourself to the character? Or like, yeah, just, just... Well, to be fair, I've got, I've got,
45:57 I'm only going to be honest with you, I'm not going to lie, but this is obviously my first
46:01 lead supporting role. So this is my first role I've been throughout the entire series,
46:07 which means I get to have more attention put on what I wear and what I look like, because
46:13 I'm throughout the series. Whereas I've always been a guest lead in things, I'm only there for
46:18 like one episode. However, I have done, I did two TV, two other TV jobs this year, and just one
46:28 episode is, and I mean, one of them doesn't count because one of them was with someone I've worked
46:33 with before, so that's fine. But one of them was like, my agent had stipulated that I have to have
46:40 someone that knows how to deal with Afro hair. And if you don't have that, then get someone,
46:45 because what we're not going to do is that because every time, like you said before,
46:49 and this is what's reminded me actually, thank you. When you book a job, you're so like, I want
46:53 to get this job, you do the recalls, you get down to the last two, you do your chemistry read,
46:56 you get it, yay. Then your next anxiety is, what are you going to do with my hair? That's the
47:03 next thing, I always worry about that. I'm worried like, so what are we going to do now? What am I
47:09 going to have to fight with to make this work? And what are we going to do to make it comfortable?
47:14 Are you going to protect my hair? Which is what I do love about Cynthia De La Rosa and her team is
47:18 that they have a whole thing about protecting your hair. They're going to put it in wigs,
47:21 or they're going to put it in braids, if they're going to tong it or do whatever, it's a conversation,
47:25 what are you comfortable, what are you not comfortable with? And how are we going to
47:28 protect that hair whilst we're doing those styles so that the condition that your hair came in,
47:32 unless it wasn't great to start with, the condition your hair came in, you leave with that same
47:36 condition. It's not mash up, which is the worst, which it can be like, they're just like, this is
47:40 what you need to look like for this. We'll do whatever we need to do to make it look like this.
47:44 And whatever happens afterwards, you're just going to have to deal with that. So have fun with that.
47:48 So because I've only been like guest leads, I went through a transition where from the bill,
47:55 bar one job where I did a Sky One job in South Africa, where they know how to do black hair,
48:01 I've always done my hair myself. So I would come to them and I'd be like, so this is the different
48:06 styles. So you just pick what you want me to do. And I will turn up and sit with my hair like that.
48:12 And they'll be like, Oh, yeah, because that would just, you know, if you're all right with that,
48:15 and it's like, I'm not, but actually, I won't be all right if I go and set a new mess up. So,
48:20 so I was just very used to do my own hair. So I never had to worry about that. Makeup's not been
48:25 too bad. Generally, they'll get the pigmentation right. So that's that I've never had too much
48:28 of a worry with that. But yeah, I just, I just, before Dreamworks Black, I was doing it.
48:33 When you see me in Eastenders, you see me in Doctors, you see me in, I've done it.
48:42 Wow. That is, that is a shame. Yeah, a huge shame. A huge, huge, huge shame.
48:50 And it is a shame, but also it was, I'd rather I do it than me being on set, just
48:56 like keep doing this, like looking.
48:57 The lesser of two evils, basically.
48:59 Yeah.
49:00 I hear you.
49:01 But it's with people like Cynthia de la Rosa, it's getting better. I'm very, very grateful.
49:11 Wow. No, I love that. I love that. I love that. Now it seems we're in a very, very important
49:17 transition phase in terms of like how Black culture's perceived and interpreted, especially
49:25 in terms of like the stories and roles that come under each production. Why would you say,
49:31 and if you agree, right, why would you say this time is so important?
49:37 Because we've never had this, and I've said it before, like I really, I mean,
49:43 I really don't want this to be a moment in time. I don't want to be,
49:49 do you remember 2023 when it was all grey? Do you remember how that was it? Remember that?
49:56 I really don't want that to be, and I get, I don't want all the shows that we're seeing,
50:03 the shows have yet to come out that are predominantly Black shows, I don't want it
50:06 to be performative. I don't want it to be like, you had your time, calm down, let's get back to,
50:13 because it's just like get back to what, what are we getting back to? We're still here.
50:18 We've always been here, and we don't want to have to keep, one thing I will say about my peers
50:23 is that, you know, the whole one in, one out, it's like there's one of us in and I'll, you know,
50:27 I'll get you in, and like, you know, it's not a one in, one out anymore. I kind of feel like
50:33 what's happened is one of us has got in and then they've left, they've put their foot in the door
50:38 and they're like, and they're like, what? No, we was always here, what? No, we've always been around,
50:46 do you not know? No, come on. And so I'm just, so going to events now, I'm seeing more of my Black
50:52 peers and I'm just like, yes, yes, yes. And you know, like sometimes you hear people like in
50:56 Hollywood, they're like, they're friends and they're friends. I'm like, this is what we're
51:00 doing because we want to support everybody. And we want, and especially when we know that people
51:06 have been grinding and thriving and doing well and not getting their flowers. And we're just like,
51:09 no, you deserve your flowers. So when we get it, we're going to be shouting it from the rooftops
51:13 and we're going to be pushing it forward. But it's just beautiful to see that like,
51:17 yeah, like your Shackby Grant's and there's loads of people that I could mention. There's just loads
51:21 of people doing beautiful things. And in theatre as well, the Bush Theatre is doing a lot of things,
51:25 but I love the fact that Red Pitch is now going to be- I know right!
51:31 Like we deserve to have good staff and there's so much good stuff. And I'm tired of
51:37 commissioners commissioning stuff that isn't good. Even us as a Black community being like,
51:42 what is that? And then commissioners being like, well, we tried it and it wasn't good. So this is
51:47 why we're going to commission it. And it's just like, no, because you didn't do due diligence.
51:51 And you just thought, we'll just pick the first one because we know someone who knows someone.
51:55 And actually rather than what's good. And now I believe I'm seeing good Black content. I'm like,
52:00 yes, let's have more of that. And so, yeah, I'm just, I'm excited. And I just hope we just keep
52:06 pushing and pioneering. And I have other friends that are writers and producers and they're
52:10 producing and writing stuff that are great. So I want this stuff to get picked up because
52:14 it deserves to be seen like anyone else's shows. - I love that. I love that so much. So,
52:23 yes, we are definitely in a transition. And I feel like this project, The Kitchen,
52:30 is definitely a part of that because it's a first in some respects. I think one big thing off the
52:40 bat is Daniel's first film, let's say, in terms of, because he co-directed it with Kibwe, right?
52:53 That is like everyone all across the world is going to be like, okay, cool. Let's see. We want
52:59 to watch, we want to watch. But then it's also UK, our culture, and got that dystopian feel. It's
53:09 huge. I feel like it's going to be a pivotal mark when we look back in terms of that project.
53:17 - What was it like being a part of that? - I mean, it was unexpected, I think, for me,
53:27 because I just thought I didn't know anything about it. And I didn't know everyone that was
53:31 involved in it. And shout out to Aisha Bywaters. I love her as a cast member. She's just great.
53:37 She's such a champion for Black artists or highly melanated people in general. She's just
53:43 on it. And I've already said to her anything she puts me up for, whether I think it makes sense to
53:47 me or not, I'm going up for it. Because she knows what she's doing. She's very good at her job.
53:51 My scene is small. People keep saying to me, stop saying that. But it is. But it took two days
54:04 to do that scene. It took a whole day, basically, to do that scene. But we had to keep like,
54:11 well, anyway, the scuffles and stuff like that. And there was a lot of action that was happening.
54:16 And what people sometimes forget is that when you're filming these things, you can do 40 takes
54:24 of the same thing just to get it right. And that was quite a big choreographed moment
54:29 that was happening. And it was just like, doing it again and again and again. I remember I was
54:35 doing a theatre job and I had to shout. And after like, I don't know, the 20th take, I was like,
54:41 I've got a show tonight. I actually can't keep shouting now because I can't lose my voice
54:46 because I've got to do a show. Which is a beautiful problem to have. Who is filming a film in the
54:51 daytime? Also, this happened while I was doing The Kitchen. Yeah, I was doing a theatre show.
54:56 I was doing a show with Ray Fines, I think. So yeah, named after him. Oh my days!
55:02 And they let me, thank you, Bridge Theatre, they let me film for The Kitchen. But they were like,
55:09 she has to be back by this time. But also, I also have to make sure that I can talk on stage. So
55:16 yes, that was just a lot and just not understanding. And then like, finishing the scene and
55:20 then like, two days later, just having all these scrapes and just being like, where do I do it?
55:25 And just realising like, oh yeah, because you got attacked. So yeah, but it was fun and it was crazy
55:33 and it was like, real. But you felt safe on set as well. There was like, choreographers and the stunt
55:40 people that I worked with, he was just like, you go as hard on me as you want, but you let me know
55:46 I'll be as gentle as I can. And then after every take, like, are you okay, Dani? And I'm like,
55:50 I'm like, give it, like, let's do it, let's shot. Do you know what I mean? But also after like,
55:55 after like 30 takes being like, okay, maybe I'm not okay, I'm just gonna calm down.
56:00 But yeah, but it was great. And then I had another day, but they didn't use in the end. But
56:05 just, yeah, just being emotional and just, and I think again, every time I'm on set,
56:12 and every time I do another project, I push myself a little bit like, can I, can I just,
56:18 can I cry like that? And I remember there was the scene that they didn't use the end,
56:22 where something happened, and I got emotional. I remember I was like, clamouring, doing whatever.
56:29 And I was in a van and they shut the doors. And as soon as they shut the doors, I knew that the
56:32 camera was gonna finish filming. So I was like, yeah, and she didn't shut the door. Then I was
56:37 like, and the actress named me, she was like, what? My girl's busting eye water? And all of a sudden,
56:43 she's just all right. She's sick, you know, like, just like proper just like, I mean, just being
56:48 like, Oh, yeah, not everyone can do that. That's kind of cool. Okay, cool. Yeah. And just like,
56:52 you know, but just and I guess just just for testing for myself and also working with Daniel
56:58 and being a fan of his and meeting him from before and knowing him and just being proud of him,
57:03 of how well he's doing and getting to talk to him about his journey. And it's just lovely. It's
57:08 just really nice to just know that someone's talented and is actually a cool person as well.
57:14 Yeah, I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. Oh, man, man. Well,
57:23 Danny, it has been a pleasure speaking with you today. Yeah, it's been an amazing year for you.
57:32 Long may it continue. And yeah, man, we're gonna catch up 2024