'I am enough' Dani Moseley on finally accepting her worth as an actor & more!

Your Cinema

Yourcinemafilms.com | Dani Moseley (Dreaming Whilst Black, The Kitchen) shares her experiences on set throughout the years, how Dreaming Whilst Black changed her career and finally accepting her worth as an actor!  Are you ready for the truth?   Listen on: Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/0K6ugRFXfgZ4B3jeWEWQTU Apple podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-your-cinema-podcast/id1712678244  ’Welcome to Your Cinema'  Follow us on socials: Tiktok: @yourcinemafilms Instagram: @yourcinemafilms Twitter: @yourcinemafilms

Transcript

00:00 Now everyone's making it in film and TV, but we don't really know how. Here we uncover

00:07 the truth. Welcome to the Your Cinema Podcast.

00:12 Welcome to the Your Cinema Podcast today. This is the place where we explore the truth

00:17 about the film and TV industry, and we hear it directly from those who are smashing it

00:23 in their areas. This week we've got an amazing guest. She's a critically acclaimed actor.

00:30 It's Dani Mosley. She does video games, voiceovers. She's also one of the stars, the key stars

00:37 of Dreaming Whilst Black, as well as featuring in Daniel Kaluuya's upcoming project, The

00:44 Kitchen for Netflix. What's going on, Dani? How are you?

00:51 I'm all right. I'm all right, actually. I'm good. I am actually really good. As you just

00:57 said that, you know when someone asks you how you are, and the easy, it's like, yeah,

01:00 I'm fine. But it's just like, I never, I'm one of these people, I don't like saying that

01:03 because what is fine? I don't know what that is. So when someone asks me, I'm always like,

01:08 how am I? And I'm like, no, I'm actually, I'm really, I'm in a really good space. I'm

01:11 really good.

01:12 Wow. Okay. I'm going to ask you two questions off the back of that. First and foremost,

01:16 why are you in a really good place?

01:19 Because I'll be honest with you, this year has been really, it's been growth for me personally

01:27 in my life, and professionally in my life. And I don't usually get a balance. Usually

01:34 one's doing great and the other's not doing so well and vice versa. But this is the first

01:37 time in my life where they're actually balanced, and I'm just cool with everything. And I've

01:43 grown a lot in terms of myself inwardly, and in terms of what I want for my life, in terms

01:49 of what I want for my career, in terms of what I want generally with people around me,

01:55 industry wise and personally wise. So it's just been a very transformative year, I'd

02:03 say.

02:04 You know what, right? I guess I love that. And I'll come to my second point after we

02:11 cover this bit, right? Given that we're people first, and feel free, you don't even have

02:17 to answer this, if I'm honest, but when you say personal growth, what are those things

02:24 that have put you in a really good place personally? And the reason I'm asking is just because that

02:31 can trickle down to impacting your professional life.

02:35 Yeah, therapy, massively. Therapy, solitude, also, and that doesn't mean me being in a

02:46 dark room all by myself, that just means me actually just spending time with myself. I

02:51 journal anyway, that's something I always do, I think as a writer, it's just a natural

02:54 thing for me to do anyway. So I like doing that. But yeah, therapy, definitely. And yeah,

03:01 just having time with myself and journaling and realising things I didn't realise before.

03:06 And I'm like, oh, you've changed your perspective on that. When did that happen? How did that

03:13 happen? And actually being like, oh, wow, you're cool with that now. That's nice. Because

03:17 there's things in my life that have been going around and around. And I'm a very spiritual

03:22 person and having a Saturn return, for me Saturn return is like for a toaster, and the

03:26 toaster gets turned upside down, and all the crumbs get shaken out. And basically whatever

03:30 hangs on is what you'll have with you for the next 30 years. And then it's about what

03:36 are you willing to let go of? And what do you need, really? And what are you able to

03:39 accept that you're willing to let go of? And what are you not able to let go of? And I

03:44 went to the Maldives for my birthday in September.

03:47 Come on, that's alright, that's alright, innit?

03:50 And yeah, I was like, I deserve it, I haven't been on holidays in three years, so I'mma

03:55 go. And I knew the person that was going to the Maldives wasn't the same person that was

04:00 going to come back. There was things I was just going to let go of, and there was things

04:03 I was going to say goodbye to. And there's things that I was then going to implement

04:07 and allow space for. So that's started to happen.

04:12 Wow, do you know what? It's amazing, like it fills me with joy to hear someone, especially

04:24 an actor, right? Because it's such an emotionally challenging career. You know, I was going

04:31 to say role, but it's like, no, this is a career. So the challenges are every day, every

04:37 audition that you get and don't get. The rejection is one thing in itself, do you know what I

04:46 mean? Like whether someone's come out the gate and their career started there, and in

04:49 the next five years they haven't worked, or someone started and there's no work, and then

04:53 in 20, like, it's a lot. So just hearing you say that, I don't know, it just actually fills

05:01 me with joy because I know how rigorous it can be. So no, that's good to know. The second

05:08 question is, so I'm very interested in like, so if it wasn't, if you weren't having a good

05:17 day, how would you deliver that? And the reason why I say that is because two of our past

05:22 guests, Armani Simpson and CJ Beckford, they seem to be quite good at being able to articulate

05:29 that without giving off too much. Like, do you know what? No, it hasn't been the greatest

05:33 day, but you know, like how would you have answered that? And just from my own personal.

05:38 - How would I have answered that? Well, if I wasn't being interviewed, I'd just tell

05:41 you, because I can't keep a lid on my own mouth, so that's just ridiculous. But as I

05:46 am, I just be like, you know what? I'm getting through it. I'm getting through it. And that's

05:51 all I can do. And that is all I do. When times are hard, I just get through it.

05:57 - I love that. Thank you. All right. So, this wasn't the first time you came across my screen,

06:07 but Dreaming Whilst Black was amazing or is amazing. Yes, it's amazing. And you know,

06:15 hopefully we get loads more series and commissions. I say we, because I feel like it's my

06:21 project as well, even though we're cheering from the sidelines. But specifically with

06:26 your role, right? You are perfect for Amy, right? I don't know. I'm not sure. How else

06:36 can I articulate? Like you played Amy so well that I would think that that is how you actually

06:46 are. That's just for me, right? I want to know, how did that role come about for you?

06:56 Because you were there when it was independent. Do you know what I mean? And it's been a seven

07:02 year journey. So a lot of the times, people that are jumping on a bandwagon now and all

07:07 of that stuff, which is great, there was in the trenches before that. So yeah, I want

07:14 to know, how did that role come about for you?

07:17 So I had done a web series called Brothers of No Game, which I loved. And Ajani had seen

07:25 me in that and had been considering wanting me to audition for Dreaming Whilst Black web

07:31 series. Now I was also aware that being in a web series and one that was successful,

07:36 I had seen others that had done other web series and they were kind of just doing that.

07:41 They weren't doing that. And I was very much like, I don't want to be the web series girl

07:45 that you just see. And I'd done The Bill and Doctors and Extenders and I was just like,

07:49 that's not what, like I did it because there wasn't anything going on at the time around

07:53 2012 and I wanted to do something and it suited me and it was good and it was black and I

07:58 loved it. And so I only want to do projects that make sense to me. If I can have a career

08:04 that does that, they're all going to be ones that pay the bills. But if I can do ones that

08:09 make sense to me, then I want to do that. And so I went to an improvisation night that

08:15 a guy called Lionheart did with his two friends, Charles, called Subjectivity. And they were

08:21 having an improv night where they were just, it was like a games night and he was like,

08:24 oh, Danny, can you come and be the one person that each group will get to do acting with

08:29 and we'll throw something at you and you've just got to do it. And I was like, all right.

08:35 So I got up there and Ajani was in the audience and I was going from Nollywood producer to

08:41 Jeremy Kyle to being pregnant person, just all these different things I was just doing.

08:48 Met Ajani at the end, I was like, oh hey, whatever. And he was like, oh, I've got this

08:52 web series. And I was like, okay. Everyone does. And he was like, oh, I'd really like

08:57 you to audition. I would like you to audition for it. Personally, I would just like to give

09:01 you the role, but I'm with a team of people for Court Films and we've all said that everyone

09:05 has to audition. So I was like, yeah, that's fine. So I auditioned for Vanessa and I was

09:11 like, I mean, the project seems cool, but I don't really know much about it, but it's

09:19 cool. So anyway, then I knew I did a good job. So then I got the email and the email

09:23 says, unfortunately, and I thought, unfortunately, what? I thought this is long, but as that

09:33 line was that line, I saw there was more writing and I was just like, what, are you going to

09:37 ask me to support your web series and all this nonsense? I just thought this is long.

09:41 And I thought, let me just read the rest of the email. And I read it and it's like, unfortunately,

09:46 we can't offer you the role as Vanessa, but we'd love to offer you the role as Amy. And

09:49 I was like, who the frick's Amy? No one told me about this Amy and I didn't audition for

09:54 Amy, so who's that? So I was like, okay. And then it was kind of divine because at the

09:59 time that they were going to, I started to read some more of the scripts and I was like,

10:02 oh, this is really good at what they're talking about and what they're saying is great. But

10:06 they were supposed to be filming on a certain day that I couldn't do and they couldn't change.

10:10 So then Njani was like, well, could you find us an actor then? So I was like, yes. So then

10:18 I found someone and asked them if they could do it and they said, cool. But then this date

10:22 was supposed to happen and I had another friend that was going to be filming it. So then he

10:26 called me and he was like, oh, what's happened? I can't find where I'm supposed to be and

10:29 I don't know where everyone is. And I was like, oh, I don't understand. So I messaged

10:32 Njani and said, oh, my friend's trying to find out where you lot are. And he was like,

10:35 oh, did you not get the message? We're not filming today. We had to cancel it. We should

10:38 have emailed him and like, you should have got that. I'm really sorry. And I was like,

10:41 oh, you're not filming? And he was like, no, no, we couldn't do it today. And I was like,

10:45 oh, so you're filming another time? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, when? So he

10:48 told me the date and I was like, I mean, I'm free now. So then I was like, my other friend,

10:54 you don't need to do it anymore. I'm good, girl. I get this. So then I was doing Amy.

10:59 So then we did the web series. That did really well. Loved it. Brilliant. And then we won

11:05 like, what was it? 36 awards worldwide. That was amazing. And then obviously BBC got involved

11:11 and then Big Deal got involved. Big Deal got involved, then BBC got involved. And then

11:15 I remember Adjani was kind of avoiding me for like two weeks. I was messaging him,

11:21 but he wasn't really replying to me. But then he was replying to me on Twitter. And I was like,

11:24 bro, don't reply to me on Twitter about something not interesting. Why have you not been replying

11:29 to me? And he was like, oh, I've got to tell you something. So I was like, I'm thinking,

11:33 oh no, they're not going to do DreamWorks. Like, what's happening? He was like,

11:36 they want you to audition for your role again. And I was like, oh. I was like, well, can't you?

11:44 Like, I've told them, I've said to them, can't you just watch the web series? She doesn't need

11:47 to audition. Like, she's Amy. That's who picked it. So he was like, long story short, if you don't

11:54 audition, then they won't consider you. So I was like, all right. So then I auditioned. And I

12:01 remember there was a woman there at the time in the room when I went in, and she was looking at

12:04 me funny. And she was like, hey. And I was like, hey. And I thought she was looking at me funny

12:08 because it's been like, oh, I haven't seen you in so long. But afterwards, I saw in hindsight that

12:13 she looked at me like, I'm going up for your role, so why are you here? This is awkward. OK.

12:19 But I didn't. So I went in there, did the job, did well, because I got picked.

12:25 So then we did the table read. Table read went well. Everyone loved it. And then my agent called

12:31 me. I was like, hey, Danny, nothing to panic about. They're just going to put your role out again

12:37 because they just want to check that they've got everybody that they want to see.

12:42 And that's when I started to have anxiety attacks because I was like, what? Like, I had the web

12:50 series. You saw that. I auditioned for you. You picked me. We saw that. We did the table read.

12:56 We got the pilot commissioned. You were all there. You were part of that. But I still, in my head,

13:03 it was like, I'm still not good enough. And I remember when I heard that, I cried because I

13:09 was just like, I don't know how much more I have to do to prove to you that I can play this role

13:14 because what more do you need to see from me? I don't understand. And so then I had to wait two

13:20 months until they'd seen who they wanted to see and deliberated and then finally got told. And

13:28 Lester Johning is my friend. He called me. He was like, I've just had the meeting. You've got the

13:32 role. And I was like, until my agent tells me, I can't really hear that because I need to officially

13:38 hear it. But then she did. And then that was for the pilot. So, yeah, that was tough. But

13:47 I'm sure everyone's happy now that I got that role because everyone seems to enjoy the performance I

13:53 did. And I'm just like, you know, it's divine in the sense of it was always mine. And it's a bit

14:01 sad that I had to keep proving that, but it was mine. So, you know.

14:05 Okay. So I wasn't expecting that. And first I want to say thank you for your transparency and

14:16 honesty, because that sounds quite traumatic, if I'm honest. Like,

14:23 I'm not even going to pretend that I know the extent to what you've gone through, but

14:34 I just want to understand, right? Especially because there's two aspects, right? There's

14:43 you being friends with Rajani and then there's the show going to another level and other people

14:48 having a say, right? But in you being friends with Rajani, because you've been on that

14:54 trajectory for so long, like I'm guessing that's at least four years, maybe four to five years

15:00 before we even get to the pilot, right? So you're Amy. Do you know what I mean? You've been on the

15:07 shoots, the edits, maybe there's reshoots, the things that have gone wrong. It's like,

15:12 you know, that camaraderie has been built. You mentioned that anxiety, you started having

15:19 anxiety attacks, right? Could you unpack that a little bit? - Just because I just kept hearing

15:29 whiffs of things. And I didn't know when I was hearing these whiffs, if that was, it's yours or

15:36 it's not yours. And I remember I would have black actors and black actresses message me and be like,

15:43 "Yo, Dan, you must have some big job because I'm going up for Amy in DreamWorks Black, this is mad."

15:49 And I'm just like, "Yeah, good luck, babe." Because I can't say anything. I can't say, "No, no, no,

15:57 I'm going up for it with you." And actually I just have to wait. So being in a position of,

16:03 you want your friends to do well, but it's your role. So that weird feeling of, "I want you to

16:10 do your best and I want them to see what you're capable of doing, but you're going up for my role,

16:16 that's mine." And that weird mix of supporting your friend, but also, or supporting your colleague,

16:25 I'd say, my own friend, but also having that feeling of, "But it's mine." It's the, "I've

16:31 never been for it, I never want to go for it again." But it was the weirdest feeling to be in.

16:35 And I remember my partner at the time was just like, "Well, you'll get another job. You're good,

16:41 you'll be fine." And I was like, it made me realize this isn't a paycheck and this isn't

16:47 a credit on my CV. This show is a movement. And I was part of it and I deserve to continue to be

16:55 part of it. And it's part of my ethos in the stuff that I do creatively wise, which is creating

17:00 positive change and doing that through telling stories. And this is that. So for that, I was

17:06 just like, I don't believe that I was only just supposed to do the web series, but hey,

17:10 I also knew that if it wasn't mine for whatever weird reason, if it really wasn't mine,

17:14 I said to Ajani, "I will support it. I will share it. I will da da da. I can't promise I'll watch it,

17:21 but I'll support it." Because it was like, that's a part of me that's been ripped away and I don't

17:28 understand why. So yes, I was just very much like, whenever he called me, I didn't know if he was

17:35 calling me to say yay or to say, oh, just to let you know. So then I just had to say to him, "Look,

17:40 I know this is really weird, but could you just not call me until this is all done? Because

17:45 it's horrible." And yeah, it just wasn't nice. And I just didn't, I didn't know that the industry,

17:51 I'd never been in that position before. I didn't even know that could happen. I was kind of like,

17:55 well, if someone's played it before and someone's also auditioned and you've accepted,

17:58 what is this? We're still just going to see if there's any other Black actress out there that

18:04 could possibly do this. And I was just like, am I not good enough? I was like, have I got this all

18:10 wrong? Am I not as good an actor as I thought I was? Yeah, it was tough. It was tough.

18:17 Okay. This is, it's deep because as you're telling it, it's like Ajani is really riding for you,

18:26 but then his hands are tied and it's like, do you know why it's deep? Yeah. Because,

18:35 so the, I think the first thing that I saw you in, or one of the first things that I saw you in

18:45 was a short film called Finish Line, right? So, I saw that, I don't know, I don't think

18:54 Dreaming Whilst Black came out before then, but I remember seeing you in that and, and I thought

19:00 the quality of the short film, I thought, oh yeah, that was good. That was good. And the reason I say

19:05 that right is because there's like two, there's like two main routes with acting in it. It's like

19:12 you do like independent stuff and then, you know, someone sees you or you have a, you have a good

19:18 agent and then you, you get the jobs, right? And in, in you being an emerging actor up until this

19:29 point, up until that point, right, of getting this pivotal role, I know from all of our other

19:36 interviews and chats with, with loads of actors, I know what it's like when it's like, you just

19:42 want the break. You just need that in. You just need that serious credit to tip the kind of roles

19:49 that, that, that, that you're getting, right? And you, especially being a black female, not that

19:57 it puts you at a disadvantage, right? But from statistics and stuff that I've read, like,

20:05 the roles that black females play is changing now, but typically they've been very, very

20:11 extremely stereotypical on like big projects. So I can't imagine the magnitude of the impact that

20:21 had on your mental health. I know mental health is like a buzzword, but what you're explaining is

20:26 like some, some genuine mental challenges that you probably weren't facing before, which is.

20:37 And I think it was just, it was also a case of how do you ever become a name if no one gives

20:43 you the chance to be one? Like when, when does that happen? So I was just like, I don't know

20:51 what I did. I literally, there was just nothing I could do. I was just like, it was, it was the

20:56 first time I just like, I really just have to leave this up to the ancestors, universe, wherever

21:03 it is to just make, because my whole thing is I want the project because I believe in Dreamworks

21:07 Blacks and Whites. I want it to have the right people involved. I don't want it. And if it isn't

21:11 me, I can't, there's no fiber in my body that makes me explain why it is me because I believed

21:17 it was, but I was like, but if for some weird reason it's not, then I'll take it on the chin.

21:22 But I was just like, I don't feel like it's not me. So that's why it was so confusing. But like

21:28 I say, I got it. The, the, the, the yay part of it is that I got it. And I don't know if I had

21:35 that experience to prepare me for something else that might happen in the future. Like,

21:38 I don't think anything happens by accident. But I'm also know that like, that I was having a

21:43 conversation with my friend today about proving yourself in the industry. Like you get to a point

21:47 where you're just like, I'm not, I'm not doing that anymore. I don't need to prove to you that

21:52 I'm good at this. Like I've got enough to prove I'm good at this and people still want me for

21:57 things. So I know I'm good at this. So this isn't about my ability. It's about other people's

22:02 perceptions and what they believe the people want to see or what they think is going to be sellable

22:07 or viable that you don't have control over, you know, you just have to trust that the right person

22:13 can see all the components and trust the people in the project that saying like, I'm telling you,

22:18 it's this person, trust me, it's this person that they listen. Cause I don't know who else,

22:22 it could have not worked out for me. And I don't know who that actually has happened to,

22:26 cause I'm sure it has happened to somebody. - Do you know what? It just sounds, it sounds like,

22:31 all right, this is, it sounds wrong to put someone through that. If I'm honest, I get the first

22:41 audition cause it's like, all right, cool. You guys did that. That's great. But we're putting,

22:46 I don't know, hundreds of thousands, millions of pounds, whatever the budget is into this. So,

22:51 you know, we have a say, all right, cool. I get that. But then to cast someone and then to just

22:57 give them the runaround, I think there's a, a, a, a sense of personal care that, you know,

23:07 people should have. It's even making me think just a little bit more about like, okay, you know,

23:12 make sure that you're treating people right because they're not actors, they're people first,

23:17 innit? Man. Okay. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. So how, all right, I'm going to ask you something, right?

23:26 Being a black female, cause I've never heard this, this runaround story before, right? Being a black

23:31 female, do you think that puts you at a disadvantage or there's some sort of difference

23:43 in the way that you're treated or regarded? Well, I, well, yes, obviously as a black actor in

23:53 Britain, yes. In, you know, in whatever gender or non-binary, yes, as a black person. And I don't

24:00 know the reasons. I can speculate and say why I think it happened. I don't actually know because

24:05 I've never had the conversation with that, with anyone to do with who was in the decision-making.

24:10 They made the decision and now we are where we are now. They made the right choice. But yeah,

24:16 like I've definitely, I've gone up for things before, before DreamWorks even existed, where

24:22 I was doing the build-ups and the extenders and I was doing all those types of things and

24:26 seeing mixed race women or light-skinned women or women with straight hair. I remember an actor,

24:32 and I don't, he was, he was giving me advice and I get why he was doing it, but I remember when

24:37 things, I was having a lull after 2013 and hadn't, and I wasn't, I had like a three-year period where

24:44 I didn't work. I had three auditions in three years, didn't work. And he was suggesting to me,

24:49 or maybe you want to look at the headshots of actresses that are doing really well and try and

24:55 simulate yourself with how they look so that when casting directors are looking, they pick you as

25:00 well because they're picking these people. Sounded quite straight back. But I noticed that these

25:04 black women had permed hair, had weaves, and I was just like, I've got Afro hair and I don't really

25:13 want to be doing that. And I'd stopped straightening my hair from like 2012. So I was like,

25:17 I don't really want to start doing that. And actually, if I keep doing that, that's all we're

25:22 ever going to see. And I have to trust that, I have to believe that there is a world where we can have

25:27 Afro hair, which is why, again, playing someone like Amy meant so much to me because I know

25:32 when I was doing Dream Nuts Black, the web series, I was doing different hairstyles and showing the

25:37 different stuff that Afro hair can do. Obviously, when it got to TV, they had bigger budgets,

25:40 other people do my hair. But it was just like, it's all about, for me, Dream Nuts Black helps

25:46 to normalise things that we don't see a lot of so that people do understand that there's a different

25:51 array of Black people living in different array of lifestyles. There are spaces for the Top Boys

25:58 and there are spaces for the Blue Stories and there's spaces for Dream Nuts Black because

26:03 Black people experience isn't one thing. There's a bunch of us and we see loads of whites and

26:09 different, we see the period dramas and we see the Westerns and we see the crime dramas and we see

26:15 the medical dramas and we see so many different walks of life of white people in Britain. It's

26:20 just like, so why do we not see that in Black culture? Why is it that I haven't seen a Desmond

26:25 since Desmond's been out? We're still here, we're still doing that. It seems that sometimes the

26:33 industry latches onto a genre and thinks that's it, we're wrong with that. And for people that do

26:37 not know what Black culture is like and do not have Black friends, it's important for them to

26:42 see different kinds of Black people. Because I went to university and I remember on my last night

26:48 in my third year, a white friend of mine was drunk and was like, "You know what, Dani? Before I came

26:53 to uni, I thought all Black people just stabbed everyone and shot and just did drugs but you're

27:00 nothing like that." I was like, "Yeah." But I also get he comes from a place where he doesn't have

27:09 Black people around him. So whatever the TV is showing him, that's all he knows. So let's see

27:15 more multi-faceted Black people on TV so we know that we're not so estranged or it's not so

27:22 fantastical. There are other stuff going on. So I like the fact that we've had...

27:27 There was something on social media where someone was saying that they were tired of the Top Boys

27:33 and they were tired of all sorts of stuff. And then they were saying, "Why aren't Black creatives

27:36 doing more to do more everyday stuff?" And a lot of the Black creatives were like, "We are, but

27:41 actually it's hard to get through if that's what the commissioners are saying that they want more

27:46 of. They want more of those types of gang culture. They're going to do more of that." And actually,

27:52 we can't pretend that it wasn't the Top Boys that got us through to this point. Let's not pretend

27:57 that that didn't happen. Everything has an evolution. So we actually needed that to then

28:04 get in the rooms to then start doing other stories for those commissioners to trust those Black

28:09 creatives that they can do stories and they can do it well and they can get the viewership and

28:12 then trust them to do other stories. So it's all symbiotic and it's all needed and helpful.

28:17 I love that. I love that. I love that you're switched on with the greater...

28:29 what's the word? Perception is not the word. The ripple effect of

28:33 doing a role and a project. Because sometimes it can be like, "Look, I just want to land this role.

28:42 Yeah, the project's great, but I want to land this role because that's going to help me to get there

28:46 like to this next level of my career, et cetera." So yeah, I love that you're very aware of that,

28:55 which I think is very important. For me personally, I just think that's very important.

29:00 I've been doing it for a long... This is my 15th year coming into my 16th year now of doing this.

29:07 Yeah, I've been doing it for a while and I'm just like, I don't need to be crack whore number four

29:12 anymore. Not that I was ever doing that, but I was just... I was going to say.

29:16 That's just not... But I've had agents in the past that have said, "Hey," and I'm just like,

29:21 "No." And they're like, "Yeah, but it's working with this person and it's on this channel."

29:26 And I'm like, "Listen, someone else that wants to get into the industry and wants to get a chance,

29:31 let them go for that role. I'm not doing that. There's enough of us around. I don't need to

29:36 do that. So no, I don't want to do it." And I'm allowed to not want to do it.

29:41 Oh my... Yeah, I love that stance. I wish a lot more people had that, but hey,

29:50 each to their own. Yeah, right, because people will dangle money at you and people will dangle

29:54 exposure and all of that sorts of stuff. And you want to eat and you want to be in those rooms. So

30:00 yeah, you will do it. So I don't look down on anyone that goes for it. And actually those roles

30:04 are there, so someone's going to do it. Fair days, fair days. So, for me, I really love Amy's role

30:16 because I know a lot of females like that. Across my life, I've seen... It's like, "I know Amy. I

30:27 know that Amy. I know you. I know you. And I haven't seen you really like that." There haven't

30:35 been that many Black shows, do you know what I mean? So I've seen it more in my life than I have

30:40 on TV or a screen, especially because there's not an explosive thing about Amy.

30:53 And I'm just like, "I get it. I know who you are." So I remember when I first watched Dreaming

31:03 Whilst Black, I was like, "Okay, cool. I know Amy, but something's going to happen between Amy and

31:10 Ajani because it's the love triangle, innit?" I really thought because it's like the friends

31:17 who maybe go a bit too far. I thought, "Yeah, cool. That's going to happen. Cool, cool, cool."

31:24 And it didn't. And I was like, "Oh my days." That's even better because a lot of the time,

31:34 that's who the Amy's have been in my life. They're just the nice female that just wants to help and

31:42 get you to where you're going. And it's purely platonic, right? In and amongst all the amazing

31:49 storyline you had where you were conflicted at work and all of that stuff. I wanted to know,

31:54 so that's just my personal perception, but I wanted to know for you, what was the importance

32:00 of Amy in terms of how black women are perceived? - Well, it's important that I think showing

32:09 platonic friendships is important. I think it doesn't have to be like you're only close to

32:14 someone if you've slept with them. And don't get me wrong, it could be start off like you might

32:18 think, "Oh," and then it's just like, "Oh, actually, we're just friends." I also think being

32:23 a creative and being a black creative, our network supporting each other is important.

32:27 And having that space where you can just be like, "This isn't working the way that Uni told us,

32:35 or this isn't working the way that it's working for him. I don't understand." And us being like,

32:38 "Tell me about it, bro. I get it." Having those spaces and having that community that get you

32:43 and understand you in the way that other parts of your friends and family don't understand you and

32:48 get. And also, again, we haven't had many shows that in a comedy drama have shown... I think

32:58 something that you said that made me laugh is when you were like, "I know Amy. I know her."

33:03 It's so funny because when people see me out on the street, they're always like, "Where do I know

33:09 you from? Where have... Who's... Do you meet?" And obviously, then we talk and then they're like,

33:15 "Oh my gosh, no. Of course, DreamWorks Black. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry." But I find it...

33:19 Considering people have noticed me from other things, people have known me from Brothers No

33:22 Game, people have known me from The Bill, from other stuff I've done, it's the first time that

33:27 people have been like, "No, I know you." So I find it endearing that people are just like, "No,

33:33 Amy is someone that I know. I know her. That woman's in my life." And I don't think many people

33:42 can watch things and be like, "No, no, no, no. That's... I know exactly who that is." It's not a...

33:47 They can recognize it and see it and notice it, but it's just very funny that people are always

33:51 like, "Where have we... Because we must have parlayed or something." And I'm just like,

33:57 "I don't know who you are." And they're like, "No, because I feel like... I don't know. Were

34:01 you in Act One?" I'm like, "Yeah." And they're like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I don't know

34:05 what I thought." And I'm like, "No, no. It's fine. It's fine." But it's really endearing and it's

34:08 sweet. And it's also bittersweet when I get DMs from people saying to me, "Oh my gosh, I loved Amy.

34:14 I loved your character. It was triggering as heck, but... Because that's my life." And then you're

34:20 just like, "Yay that you resonate and you feel seen, but I'm sorry that this is what you feel

34:26 seen for." And that's name-branding. But also people also realizing that I'm not alone. It's

34:32 just... It's not I'm not the only black person in the office that feels like this, actually.

34:35 A lot of us in the office feel like this, which isn't great, but we're not alone,

34:39 which means we can be there to support each other. And I think, again, Amy being able to express

34:46 herself through her hair, something that the hair and makeup team, which I really want to big up,

34:50 costume, Jodie Simone and her team, and big up Cynthia De La Rosa and her hair and makeup team,

34:58 because I've never been in productions where they want to say something without words. You've got

35:03 the script and that's your words, but actually how can you say things that don't need it? So Jodie

35:09 Simone using costume to say things like the Grenfell t-shirt and having jewelry that says

35:17 "enough is enough" when I was talking to my boss at the end, just little things like that. And also

35:23 in terms of hair and makeup, my hair gets bigger through the episodes. I don't know if you even

35:29 noticed that. And that was like, I'm getting more confident. And also my color scheme and my clothing

35:35 gets more louder and gets bigger and brighter because Amy's starting to come out of herself

35:39 and being like, "I'm done with you lot." So just little things like that, that you're just like

35:43 these little things that you wouldn't notice, but actually when you think about it and watch it,

35:47 you think, "Wow." And that comes through in terms of, as well as the script, as well as the acting,

35:52 but actually those things as well. And I will also say, I'm so grateful to those two teams,

35:58 especially for me, because I've never been on a set. Well, I've done some stuff afterwards,

36:03 but I've never been on a set so much where all I've had to worry about is my acting.

36:07 I'm always worrying about my hair, that gel thing looks a bit weird, why they put that in my hair,

36:15 and this top's a bit tight, and when they're doing this, and who wears bell bottoms at this point,

36:19 all of these sorts of stuff. I've always like having to worry and like checking the mirror and

36:23 check, "Look, this person, does that look okay?" So I can't focus on my lines. I can't focus on my

36:27 intentions. It's all this other stuff. Whereas Dreamworks is the first show where I have just

36:32 been able to go on set and be myself. And I'm going to say that that's my performance. When

36:38 all you have to worry about is acting and you, you can fly, you can have fun, you can express

36:44 yourself and be who you want to be because that's all you have to worry about. And there is not

36:47 many jobs that I can say that. So I feel like my performance is due, as well as the writing,

36:54 obviously, and the other actors, but it's due to those departments.

36:57 I've never, you said something that I've never thought of, right? I've never, because we hear

37:05 the, we hear the hair conversation, do you know what I mean? It's been going on for like about

37:09 a year or two where it's like, you know, "Oh, we need black hair and makeup." And I'm not even

37:15 saying it in a way to trivialise it. It's like, no, it's really important because

37:22 actors who aren't black have that and it's, and it works fine. But then now we have to do our own

37:28 stuff. And as, as, as well as act, I've never thought about it from the perspective of if I

37:35 have to focus on other things other than my performance, my performance is actually going

37:41 to be affected. So basically it's even more, it's, it's more important than we realise,

37:48 or I would ask you, like, is it more important than we realise? Because essentially black actors,

37:58 when black hair and makeup isn't sorted, you're now affecting our performance.

38:03 Yeah. Because I, you don't know if you've been, had a traumatic experience

38:07 on set before you go on set. I mean, you know, if someone made you feel rubbish about yourself

38:15 and you knew you had to do a presentation, do you think you would do a better job doing a

38:19 presentation if someone made you feel rubbish about yourself before you went on that stage?

38:23 Or do you think you'd do a better job if actually everyone empowered you and bigged you up and made

38:27 a better version of yourself? Which presentation do you think in that scenario is going to bring

38:32 the best outcome for you? And if you've been in the makeup room and you're crying before you have

38:38 to go on set, or you're redoing your makeup in your trailer before you have to go on set,

38:43 or the clothing that you're wearing is too tight. And so you're not thinking about your lines,

38:48 you're thinking about how that waistline is now pinching into you. And also realising that the

38:52 shape of your body is not the shape of the clothes they've got for you, because they just

38:56 assume that everybody's body shape is the same. So just, this is what it is. And not,

39:00 and another beautiful thing is the hair and makeup and costume team, they spoke to me

39:05 about what their ideas for Amy were. And they asked, they asked my opinion, whether they use

39:10 it or not, or whatever, but we had a conversation. Like Jodie Simone's mood board for Amy was just,

39:15 I was like, what? This is crazy, this is mad. And then even to have a tweet of someone saying,

39:23 Amy's giving Issa Rae a run for her money on this hair thing, man. But I was like, I will take that.

39:29 I will take it. Because, yeah. And I was just, but again, on British TV,

39:33 when do we see that? When do we hear that? When is that really a discussion that we talk about?

39:39 People are talking about my performance, but they're also talking about my hair and they're

39:42 talking about costume, which they, just doesn't happen. You don't watch shows and have conversations

39:47 about what people look like, as well as their performance. Like, yeah, there's a lot of flowers

39:51 on this project, honestly. - Oh my days. You said something, you said, you said, you said,

40:01 you said like crying in your trailer before you have to go on, right? And I just realised something

40:09 that I think that put into perspective is like, when you land an acting job, right, it's a big

40:16 deal. And out of the however many days or years that a person hasn't worked,

40:25 it's like, okay, now this is my time to perform. And you've got me looking like a clown.

40:32 Like you are, you don't even realise that you're messing up my role on this job that may make these

40:45 people think that I'm not good and is going to impact wherever I get other jobs. Like, don't,

40:51 I just, when you said that, I was like, oh, it is that deep. - Yeah, it is. It really is. And also

40:58 like, let's not get twisted, social media, people talk. - Yeah. - Someone's talking about a scene

41:05 and there's more tweets about the fact that your wig is off point than they are about your

41:11 performance. What are we doing here? - Yeah, you're right. You're right. Wow. Okay. All right.

41:21 So, Amy, Amy, Amy, Amy, I want to know how has playing Amy impacted your career? - I,

41:36 it's done wonders, honestly. It's done wonders. It's got me, American representation.

41:43 And I didn't even apply, like they came to my agency in the UK. Yeah, they came to us and was

41:51 like, we want her. And they had, that was off of the hype, that was off of the reviews. And then

41:58 I, my agent has cut up some scenes from Dreamworlds, like, and put it on my showroll. So

42:02 when she spoke to the person, she was like, oh, so you enjoyed the series? And he was like, oh,

42:08 I haven't seen it. And she was like, sorry. And he was like, oh, no, no, like, I've heard the hype,

42:11 I've read the reviews and I saw her showroll. So I've seen the scene she's done. I get it. She's

42:15 great. Yeah. Let's talk. And I was just like, whereas Danny, who's wanted to be an actor since

42:22 she was eight years old, he's been clamouring, getting, trying to like, da da da da, I would

42:28 like to be in your agency. Like, there's, you know, all of that. And I'm just thinking, wow,

42:31 that just happened. I'm being seen for bigger and better roles. I'm having casting directors

42:37 tell me that they're fans of mine now. Like, it, it literally, I knew what Dreaming What's

42:43 About could be for me, because I knew what I could give to it, which is why it hurt when I had to

42:48 wait, when they weren't sure about me. And also I knew once I got it, I was going to show you why

42:55 I got it. And I, but I, I didn't even know the reception that it was going to get, because even

43:03 when people tell me that they think it's great and all these sorts of stuff, for ages, I was just

43:07 like, I don't understand. I was talking to my best friend. I was like, I don't understand why everyone

43:11 keeps saying that it's so good. I don't get it. And then I realised, because people don't know

43:17 what I can do. And actually, I always thought like a big performance and a like a well done was like,

43:25 I'm crying, I'm emotional, I'm breaking down. My best friend was like, and you're learning that

43:29 it ain't that. Actually, when you're just truthful in the performance that you do, that's enough.

43:36 That will resonate, that will engage, and that's enough. And I was like,

43:41 oh yeah, which is what I try to do all the time. Okay.

43:44 Nice. You see, and that is why we love Amy, because we know her because you played her

43:53 truthfully. Do you know what I love? You know, sometimes you feel something, and you just get

44:01 something, but I think you just articulated that amazingly, or you and your best friend. Because

44:08 one, for me, one of the like, one of the realest actors, right, is Shaq B. Grant,

44:16 because he does that. What you just said. I love him. I love him so much. He's so great.

44:21 I worked with him on everything I know about love, and he's just, from when I met him, I was like,

44:24 you're in my tribe. Like, we're in the same, like, I love him. I love him.

44:31 He is like, like, he can be anyone, upper middle class, from the hood, whatever,

44:39 and you believe it. It's like, like you said, it doesn't have to be a huge performance,

44:45 and I'm sure he can do that. I'm sure you can do that. But it's like, it's not just that,

44:49 because acting is portraying life, and so then life has to be truthful. And like, yeah, that is,

44:56 thank you for helping me find those words. Okay. Amazing, amazing, amazing. So I wanted to know,

45:02 right, like you mentioned, like, with, like, having a mood board from costume and, and, and

45:10 having, like, discussions with hair and makeup, etc. Right. I want to know, like, when you get a

45:18 role, how much are you able to bring you to the character? Because I know Dreaming Whilst Black

45:26 is one thing, and that's a particular, like you said, it's a movement. It's not just a project,

45:33 right? Hence, the, the back and forth in terms of input that you were able to give.

45:41 But is that a normal thing? Like, and, and if not, how do you, and is it important for you to bring

45:50 yourself to the character? Or like, yeah, just, just... Well, to be fair, I've got, I've got,

45:57 I'm only going to be honest with you, I'm not going to lie, but this is obviously my first

46:01 lead supporting role. So this is my first role I've been throughout the entire series,

46:07 which means I get to have more attention put on what I wear and what I look like, because

46:13 I'm throughout the series. Whereas I've always been a guest lead in things, I'm only there for

46:18 like one episode. However, I have done, I did two TV, two other TV jobs this year, and just one

46:28 episode is, and I mean, one of them doesn't count because one of them was with someone I've worked

46:33 with before, so that's fine. But one of them was like, my agent had stipulated that I have to have

46:40 someone that knows how to deal with Afro hair. And if you don't have that, then get someone,

46:45 because what we're not going to do is that because every time, like you said before,

46:49 and this is what's reminded me actually, thank you. When you book a job, you're so like, I want

46:53 to get this job, you do the recalls, you get down to the last two, you do your chemistry read,

46:56 you get it, yay. Then your next anxiety is, what are you going to do with my hair? That's the

47:03 next thing, I always worry about that. I'm worried like, so what are we going to do now? What am I

47:09 going to have to fight with to make this work? And what are we going to do to make it comfortable?

47:14 Are you going to protect my hair? Which is what I do love about Cynthia De La Rosa and her team is

47:18 that they have a whole thing about protecting your hair. They're going to put it in wigs,

47:21 or they're going to put it in braids, if they're going to tong it or do whatever, it's a conversation,

47:25 what are you comfortable, what are you not comfortable with? And how are we going to

47:28 protect that hair whilst we're doing those styles so that the condition that your hair came in,

47:32 unless it wasn't great to start with, the condition your hair came in, you leave with that same

47:36 condition. It's not mash up, which is the worst, which it can be like, they're just like, this is

47:40 what you need to look like for this. We'll do whatever we need to do to make it look like this.

47:44 And whatever happens afterwards, you're just going to have to deal with that. So have fun with that.

47:48 So because I've only been like guest leads, I went through a transition where from the bill,

47:55 bar one job where I did a Sky One job in South Africa, where they know how to do black hair,

48:01 I've always done my hair myself. So I would come to them and I'd be like, so this is the different

48:06 styles. So you just pick what you want me to do. And I will turn up and sit with my hair like that.

48:12 And they'll be like, Oh, yeah, because that would just, you know, if you're all right with that,

48:15 and it's like, I'm not, but actually, I won't be all right if I go and set a new mess up. So,

48:20 so I was just very used to do my own hair. So I never had to worry about that. Makeup's not been

48:25 too bad. Generally, they'll get the pigmentation right. So that's that I've never had too much

48:28 of a worry with that. But yeah, I just, I just, before Dreamworks Black, I was doing it.

48:33 When you see me in Eastenders, you see me in Doctors, you see me in, I've done it.

48:42 Wow. That is, that is a shame. Yeah, a huge shame. A huge, huge, huge shame.

48:50 And it is a shame, but also it was, I'd rather I do it than me being on set, just

48:56 like keep doing this, like looking.

48:57 The lesser of two evils, basically.

48:59 Yeah.

49:00 I hear you.

49:01 But it's with people like Cynthia de la Rosa, it's getting better. I'm very, very grateful.

49:11 Wow. No, I love that. I love that. I love that. Now it seems we're in a very, very important

49:17 transition phase in terms of like how Black culture's perceived and interpreted, especially

49:25 in terms of like the stories and roles that come under each production. Why would you say,

49:31 and if you agree, right, why would you say this time is so important?

49:37 Because we've never had this, and I've said it before, like I really, I mean,

49:43 I really don't want this to be a moment in time. I don't want to be,

49:49 do you remember 2023 when it was all grey? Do you remember how that was it? Remember that?

49:56 I really don't want that to be, and I get, I don't want all the shows that we're seeing,

50:03 the shows have yet to come out that are predominantly Black shows, I don't want it

50:06 to be performative. I don't want it to be like, you had your time, calm down, let's get back to,

50:13 because it's just like get back to what, what are we getting back to? We're still here.

50:18 We've always been here, and we don't want to have to keep, one thing I will say about my peers

50:23 is that, you know, the whole one in, one out, it's like there's one of us in and I'll, you know,

50:27 I'll get you in, and like, you know, it's not a one in, one out anymore. I kind of feel like

50:33 what's happened is one of us has got in and then they've left, they've put their foot in the door

50:38 and they're like, and they're like, what? No, we was always here, what? No, we've always been around,

50:46 do you not know? No, come on. And so I'm just, so going to events now, I'm seeing more of my Black

50:52 peers and I'm just like, yes, yes, yes. And you know, like sometimes you hear people like in

50:56 Hollywood, they're like, they're friends and they're friends. I'm like, this is what we're

51:00 doing because we want to support everybody. And we want, and especially when we know that people

51:06 have been grinding and thriving and doing well and not getting their flowers. And we're just like,

51:09 no, you deserve your flowers. So when we get it, we're going to be shouting it from the rooftops

51:13 and we're going to be pushing it forward. But it's just beautiful to see that like,

51:17 yeah, like your Shackby Grant's and there's loads of people that I could mention. There's just loads

51:21 of people doing beautiful things. And in theatre as well, the Bush Theatre is doing a lot of things,

51:25 but I love the fact that Red Pitch is now going to be- I know right!

51:31 Like we deserve to have good staff and there's so much good stuff. And I'm tired of

51:37 commissioners commissioning stuff that isn't good. Even us as a Black community being like,

51:42 what is that? And then commissioners being like, well, we tried it and it wasn't good. So this is

51:47 why we're going to commission it. And it's just like, no, because you didn't do due diligence.

51:51 And you just thought, we'll just pick the first one because we know someone who knows someone.

51:55 And actually rather than what's good. And now I believe I'm seeing good Black content. I'm like,

52:00 yes, let's have more of that. And so, yeah, I'm just, I'm excited. And I just hope we just keep

52:06 pushing and pioneering. And I have other friends that are writers and producers and they're

52:10 producing and writing stuff that are great. So I want this stuff to get picked up because

52:14 it deserves to be seen like anyone else's shows. - I love that. I love that so much. So,

52:23 yes, we are definitely in a transition. And I feel like this project, The Kitchen,

52:30 is definitely a part of that because it's a first in some respects. I think one big thing off the

52:40 bat is Daniel's first film, let's say, in terms of, because he co-directed it with Kibwe, right?

52:53 That is like everyone all across the world is going to be like, okay, cool. Let's see. We want

52:59 to watch, we want to watch. But then it's also UK, our culture, and got that dystopian feel. It's

53:09 huge. I feel like it's going to be a pivotal mark when we look back in terms of that project.

53:17 - What was it like being a part of that? - I mean, it was unexpected, I think, for me,

53:27 because I just thought I didn't know anything about it. And I didn't know everyone that was

53:31 involved in it. And shout out to Aisha Bywaters. I love her as a cast member. She's just great.

53:37 She's such a champion for Black artists or highly melanated people in general. She's just

53:43 on it. And I've already said to her anything she puts me up for, whether I think it makes sense to

53:47 me or not, I'm going up for it. Because she knows what she's doing. She's very good at her job.

53:51 My scene is small. People keep saying to me, stop saying that. But it is. But it took two days

54:04 to do that scene. It took a whole day, basically, to do that scene. But we had to keep like,

54:11 well, anyway, the scuffles and stuff like that. And there was a lot of action that was happening.

54:16 And what people sometimes forget is that when you're filming these things, you can do 40 takes

54:24 of the same thing just to get it right. And that was quite a big choreographed moment

54:29 that was happening. And it was just like, doing it again and again and again. I remember I was

54:35 doing a theatre job and I had to shout. And after like, I don't know, the 20th take, I was like,

54:41 I've got a show tonight. I actually can't keep shouting now because I can't lose my voice

54:46 because I've got to do a show. Which is a beautiful problem to have. Who is filming a film in the

54:51 daytime? Also, this happened while I was doing The Kitchen. Yeah, I was doing a theatre show.

54:56 I was doing a show with Ray Fines, I think. So yeah, named after him. Oh my days!

55:02 And they let me, thank you, Bridge Theatre, they let me film for The Kitchen. But they were like,

55:09 she has to be back by this time. But also, I also have to make sure that I can talk on stage. So

55:16 yes, that was just a lot and just not understanding. And then like, finishing the scene and

55:20 then like, two days later, just having all these scrapes and just being like, where do I do it?

55:25 And just realising like, oh yeah, because you got attacked. So yeah, but it was fun and it was crazy

55:33 and it was like, real. But you felt safe on set as well. There was like, choreographers and the stunt

55:40 people that I worked with, he was just like, you go as hard on me as you want, but you let me know

55:46 I'll be as gentle as I can. And then after every take, like, are you okay, Dani? And I'm like,

55:50 I'm like, give it, like, let's do it, let's shot. Do you know what I mean? But also after like,

55:55 after like 30 takes being like, okay, maybe I'm not okay, I'm just gonna calm down.

56:00 But yeah, but it was great. And then I had another day, but they didn't use in the end. But

56:05 just, yeah, just being emotional and just, and I think again, every time I'm on set,

56:12 and every time I do another project, I push myself a little bit like, can I, can I just,

56:18 can I cry like that? And I remember there was the scene that they didn't use the end,

56:22 where something happened, and I got emotional. I remember I was like, clamouring, doing whatever.

56:29 And I was in a van and they shut the doors. And as soon as they shut the doors, I knew that the

56:32 camera was gonna finish filming. So I was like, yeah, and she didn't shut the door. Then I was

56:37 like, and the actress named me, she was like, what? My girl's busting eye water? And all of a sudden,

56:43 she's just all right. She's sick, you know, like, just like proper just like, I mean, just being

56:48 like, Oh, yeah, not everyone can do that. That's kind of cool. Okay, cool. Yeah. And just like,

56:52 you know, but just and I guess just just for testing for myself and also working with Daniel

56:58 and being a fan of his and meeting him from before and knowing him and just being proud of him,

57:03 of how well he's doing and getting to talk to him about his journey. And it's just lovely. It's

57:08 just really nice to just know that someone's talented and is actually a cool person as well.

57:14 Yeah, I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. Oh, man, man. Well,

57:23 Danny, it has been a pleasure speaking with you today. Yeah, it's been an amazing year for you.

57:32 Long may it continue. And yeah, man, we're gonna catch up 2024

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