DICT Secretary Ivan John Uy | The Manila Times Roundtable
DICT Secretary Ivan John Uy | The Manila Times Roundtable
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NewsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Secretary Ivan Huy, welcome to The Milad Times.
00:08 You're very hardworking on the first working day of 2024,
00:12 and you're here.
00:13 [LAUGHTER]
00:14 Thank you, Clint.
00:15 But I'm not surprised, Secretary.
00:17 You have a lot of projects that you started.
00:21 Maybe we can start with an update where DICT is,
00:27 what's been progressing, and then
00:29 maybe what's your outlook for 2024, for this year?
00:34 Well, that's a lot.
00:35 [LAUGHTER]
00:36 Yeah, yeah.
00:36 That's a lot.
00:37 Maybe just the highlights.
00:40 Yes, well, since we started our--
00:44 since the start of the administration,
00:51 there were four major areas that we've been
00:54 concentrating on in the DICT.
00:59 One is to increase connectivity.
01:03 These are internet connectivity all across the country,
01:07 prioritizing the geographically isolated and disadvantaged
01:11 areas, considering the nature of our archipelago and all
01:15 the islands there.
01:16 So that's one.
01:19 Second is to improve government service
01:23 through better utilization of the various technologies.
01:28 So we launched our e-gov app.
01:31 The mobile app.
01:32 Yes, which we were able to do in less than one year, which
01:38 I think is a feat by itself because of getting
01:42 all the government agencies to work together and cooperate
01:45 in sharing information is quite challenging.
01:51 The third area has been to help our industries,
01:57 our ICT industries, in becoming more competitive
02:02 and be able to access the global market.
02:05 So we've been doing several interventions
02:10 to help the BPM industry, the IT BPM industry,
02:14 to become more competitive.
02:15 But at the same time, we've also launched several programs
02:19 to encourage the startup sector.
02:28 We did our Geeks on the Beach program,
02:35 which does a lot of the--
02:40 Geeks on the Beach.
02:41 Geeks on the Beach, yeah.
02:42 That's pretty interesting.
02:43 So we--
02:44 So your remote workplaces.
02:46 Yes, remote workplaces.
02:48 And showing to the rest of the world
02:51 that we don't have to be encapsulated inside a small
02:57 apartment.
02:57 Don't tell our staff.
02:58 Geeks on the Beach.
03:00 And--
03:01 That's interesting.
03:02 So they can do online.
03:03 Yeah.
03:03 Well, this is actually an offshoot
03:05 of what's been happening, especially during the pandemic.
03:08 Since a lot of people work online,
03:12 and we saw an opportunity to showcase our beautiful islands
03:18 and our beautiful beaches, our beautiful tourist areas.
03:22 So there were a lot of foreigners who traveled,
03:26 and they realized that, hey, there's good connectivity,
03:30 and they can actually do work.
03:32 Of course, not all work can be done online.
03:36 So you still need the physical presence.
03:38 But those that could, or at least segmentize them,
03:44 they now have more opportunities to be
03:47 in a more relaxing environment to do their work.
03:52 And then we also did our Digital Nomad project.
03:56 We launched it in Siargao.
03:58 Oh, wow.
03:58 So the Digital Nomads work in conjunction
04:02 with the Geeks on the Beach.
04:03 Geeks on the Beach are more for startups and for matching.
04:07 The Digital Nomads are for--
04:09 You said for foreigners.
04:11 Foreigners who are traveling.
04:15 And many of them are actually board-level or C-level
04:20 executives.
04:21 Really?
04:22 Yes, because they attend the board meetings once a month.
04:28 So--
04:28 Oh, OK.
04:30 And they don't have to be there actually for operations
04:33 or whatever.
04:33 So they can do it online.
04:36 And so I was quite surprised by even the quality of the people
04:42 I meet on the Digital Nomads program.
04:47 They're decision-makers, high-level.
04:49 That's surprising.
04:50 I'm not surprised.
04:51 Yes.
04:51 And I see them in these shared workspaces in their beach
04:59 attire with their--
05:01 They have a coat on top and beach shorts on.
05:03 And then their surfboard right just beside it.
05:07 They just came from surfing.
05:09 And they went there, and they're now attending their board
05:12 meetings there.
05:13 So we are encouraging that.
05:15 And I understand that there are champions now
05:19 in Congress who are amending our visa law
05:23 to allow for Digital Nomad visas, which
05:26 means that instead of coming in as tourist visas where they can
05:30 only stay for, I think, 60 days, they
05:34 can stay for at least a year.
05:36 Oh, I thought we had that already.
05:39 Congress still needs--
05:40 Yes.
05:40 I see.
05:41 Congress is working on that.
05:42 And I think it's near fruition.
05:47 So that's the third area--
05:49 startups, innovation, and building the industry,
05:58 the ecosystem.
06:00 And then the fourth is, of course, capacity building
06:06 for our workers.
06:11 The world is changing very fast.
06:13 And a lot of disruptive, critical, emerging technologies
06:19 are coming in.
06:21 And it will change the way we do things in more ways than one.
06:27 And all these changes are going to affect
06:31 who's going to be competitive and who's not.
06:34 And we anticipate that.
06:37 And we are working proactively in building up
06:41 the necessary skill sets and knowledge of our workforce
06:46 in order to be ahead of the curve in addressing,
06:53 in capacitating them to utilize all these new technologies.
06:58 We cannot sit back and just wait for the technologies to arrive.
07:01 Then we react.
07:02 Because by then, it's too late.
07:04 It will be too late.
07:05 So those are the four areas that we've
07:10 been doing for the past year.
07:13 And so far, we've moved forward aggressively with some of them.
07:21 And this year, we are continuing with all of them.
07:27 But we would probably be putting more efforts now
07:30 on some of these areas that were not as progressive as we
07:42 were able to do the last year.
07:45 So you mentioned the e-gov app.
07:50 That's interesting.
07:52 One of the things that President Marcos wanted
07:54 was an e-government.
07:56 And I think this is one of the things
07:57 that you're talking about.
08:00 Primarily, what I'm interested in
08:02 is maybe the business registration.
08:04 How have LGUs been reacting to it?
08:08 Have they been cooperative?
08:09 Or has it been--
08:10 I mean, are there standout LGUs that maybe we
08:14 should maybe keep an eye on?
08:16 If you're looking for a place to invest,
08:18 these are the ones that maybe we can start looking.
08:21 I'm sure Quezon City would top the list.
08:22 But maybe outside of Quezon City,
08:24 what are the other places that are working
08:29 more closely with the ICT?
08:30 Well, the major cities are--
08:34 what we're identifying is that, for instance,
08:37 we develop an e-LGU app that is integrated into the e-gov app.
08:42 Now, the e-LGU app is a white label e-LGU system
08:49 that addresses the ICT components of how
08:55 to run an LGU.
08:57 So this includes real property tax payments,
09:01 business permits, and licensing.
09:02 So I can do that without going to the municipal?
09:05 Yes.
09:06 Do it all online.
09:07 Online, wow.
09:07 Through the e-gov app.
09:08 The e-gov app has a sub-app called the e-LGU.
09:12 Then you can find your LGU there.
09:15 And then connect to that.
09:16 Then you can do all the transactions there.
09:18 So we did it as a white label.
09:22 And we did it because we saw that all the local government
09:26 units have the same--
09:28 Same problems.
09:29 Same problems.
09:29 Same requirements.
09:30 Same requirements.
09:31 Same KPIs.
09:37 Same processes.
09:38 So in the past, what's been happening
09:41 is that all the local government units
09:44 are doing it on their own.
09:46 And so you have one system here, another system there,
09:50 assuming they complete it.
09:53 What has happened in the past is because our local government
10:00 officials has a term of three years.
10:03 So when they sit, the first year is
10:08 getting to know how everything runs, orientation,
10:15 and then planning.
10:17 Then on the second year, they start doing the bidding
10:21 for whether it's an IT system for business permits,
10:25 licensing for a second year.
10:28 Then once they are finished with the bidding,
10:33 they start doing the systems development, the programming.
10:37 So sometimes it takes more than a year.
10:41 And by the time that they haven't finished yet,
10:44 they haven't turned over the system,
10:45 a new mayor gets elected.
10:48 And then they're--
10:48 The opposing mayor, the opposing party.
10:50 And you set the priorities.
10:52 So the whole system gets scrapped,
10:53 and then they start all over again.
10:55 So you've seen a lot of local government units
10:58 where the mayor keeps on changing.
11:02 Then you always have half done systems
11:06 that are not implemented, but the local government is broke.
11:11 Because they just keep on paying providers
11:14 that does not deliver the system because it's now half done.
11:17 And it's rejected by the next--
11:18 So does the e-gov app replace that
11:20 to put it under one roof?
11:21 Yes.
11:22 So the e-gov app, we've identified all of those.
11:24 So we've done the studies.
11:27 We've sat down with all the LGUs,
11:29 find out what are the pain points.
11:31 Then come up with those systems, then we give it for free.
11:35 We tell the LGUs--
11:36 Oh, they don't pay for anything?
11:37 No, no, they don't have to.
11:39 We give it for free, and we tell them,
11:41 you can use this.
11:41 It's implementable anytime.
11:43 It's cloud-based.
11:45 And we take care of updating it, just like Microsoft or Facebook.
11:51 So we take care of updating the app so that all the latest
11:56 security features are there.
11:58 But the good thing there, it's white label,
12:00 meaning it's not the ICT branded.
12:04 We allow the mayor now to put their front page there
12:09 so that when they're facing their constituents,
12:13 it's their project.
12:16 It's how they are enabling the local government
12:20 to be able to deliver their services better.
12:22 But are they able to do business registration on that?
12:25 Or is that still an advanced--
12:27 We're integrating all of those, so slowly.
12:30 Now, so what's been happening is that the local governments
12:37 that are not as wealthy are the ones that are most interested
12:43 in using our app.
12:45 So the bigger cities, mostly the bigger cities that can afford--
12:50 Ah, they have their own.
12:52 They have their own because they've done it already.
12:54 So they've done it, especially in Metro Manila,
12:58 Quezon City, Valenzuela, Makati.
13:00 So they've done their own, and they've done it well.
13:04 So we don't have to intervene in doing it.
13:08 So we're concentrating.
13:09 I mean, there are more than 1,500 local government units
13:14 out there.
13:15 So so far, I think we have about 300 to 400 that's already--
13:22 So a ways to go.
13:23 Yes.
13:25 We don't have as many personnel that
13:29 would be able to handhold them in order
13:35 to get them into the system.
13:36 Yeah, but the systems there, all they have to do now is--
13:38 Yes.
13:39 Talk to you and sign in.
13:40 So we train them.
13:41 We train their people, and then they sign up.
13:44 So they don't have a headache.
13:46 They don't even have to pay for software updates.
13:48 They don't have to pay for all of those
13:51 because everything is done by--
13:54 And I think besides the convenience to people,
13:57 I think the other intent of digitalizing that
14:00 was to address good governance also, right?
14:02 I mean, is that something--
14:04 Definitely.
14:04 --that you're working on as well?
14:07 Right, because with that app now, when you do your--
14:11 we're working on the payment system.
14:14 But then in the past, you have to bring cash,
14:19 and then you pay at the desk in the municipal.
14:23 Yeah, to fix sure.
14:26 Then the cashier decides, OK, this amount
14:30 gets deposited to this account, this amount to that account,
14:33 then this amount to that account.
14:35 So separate accounts.
14:37 And then at the end of a certain period, they have to reconcile.
14:42 Those that go to the national government
14:44 have to be reconciled with the treasury, with DBM.
14:49 The amount that they've collected has gone there.
14:52 So there is a big gap.
14:55 Sometimes there are local government units
14:58 that fail or are delayed--
15:01 In remitting.
15:01 --in remitting.
15:02 And then you need a whole battalion of people
15:06 doing all the reconciliation because of all--
15:09 so with an electronic system--
15:12 Just simplifies it.
15:13 Yes, the computer reconciles everything
15:15 and tells you whether the balance is-- the books balance
15:19 or not.
15:20 Second, this ELG app is more than just that.
15:26 It integrates also, for instance, an e-report system.
15:30 What is an e-report system?
15:32 It's a citizen engagement system where the public will
15:37 be able to report, let's say, a crime, a pothole,
15:41 a missing manhole--
15:44 All on the app.
15:45 --a tree on the app, a tree that has fallen,
15:48 or an electric post that is leaning and is about to collapse,
15:55 or a fire.
15:56 So just to give you an example, a crime is being committed.
16:01 Somebody who has that app can take a photo
16:04 and do a report on that app.
16:07 And it doesn't have to--
16:10 unlike the 911, where you call a center,
16:14 the center conducts triage by ascertaining
16:18 whether they go to the police, or they go to the medical,
16:21 or they go to fire.
16:23 And then it goes to--
16:25 and then once it goes to police, it goes to the headquarters.
16:28 And the headquarters brings it down to the station,
16:32 and the station sends.
16:33 This one, no.
16:35 So if it's an e-report, it's crime.
16:37 They just click Crime.
16:38 Then when it's reported, it goes directly
16:42 to the police officers.
16:44 So the police officers, they all have that app.
16:47 It now transmits the crime incident
16:51 to police officers within, let's say, a 10-kilometer radius.
16:55 So every police officer within a 10-kilometer radius
16:58 will receive a text.
17:01 A robbery is being committed at this bank on this street.
17:04 And they will see the map of where they are and how far.
17:12 It's like your ways.
17:13 It's interesting, yeah.
17:14 Or Google Maps.
17:15 They will see it.
17:17 And then whoever clicks I'm responding, once they click,
17:23 OK, I will respond.
17:25 I'm three minutes away.
17:26 They will know, because it's indicated already there.
17:29 I'm three minutes away.
17:30 I will respond.
17:32 Then the other police officers will
17:34 know that, OK, this police officer or this team
17:37 has already responded.
17:39 And whether they're going to also respond or not depends.
17:43 But that way, we have better accountability.
17:50 Because [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
17:51 Yeah, yeah.
17:52 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
17:52 Because it's all digitally recorded.
17:54 Right.
17:54 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
17:55 And it also provides good reward system.
18:02 Sure.
18:02 Because now, the headquarters will know, OK,
18:06 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
18:08 undumbing incidents, they're always the first responders.
18:13 And they always arrive at the scene of the crime immediately.
18:17 So you remove all the layers where
18:21 information can get delayed.
18:25 And then by the time that the responders get there,
18:28 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
18:29 Yeah, yeah.
18:32 And it gives them the exact time.
18:34 And in fact, gives them also the route, the fastest route
18:37 for them to get there.
18:38 So interesting.
18:39 So that's also in the eLGU app.
18:44 So it's leveraging all of these technology
18:49 not just to make life simpler and easier for our citizens
18:53 to engage with government, but it also
18:55 makes government more agile, more responsive
18:59 by leveraging this technology in providing
19:03 better service.
19:04 What's in the pipeline for that eGov app this year?
19:08 I mean, I know there's more and more agencies
19:11 that you're talking to participate.
19:13 What's the big development you're
19:15 hoping to happen this year?
19:16 So we need to expand more government agencies in.
19:21 There are several levels.
19:25 There are many government agencies
19:27 that have actually very poor ICT infrastructure.
19:31 And so they don't even have their database to begin with.
19:34 So those will be quite challenging to put them
19:38 in the app because they have nothing to contribute to the app.
19:42 They need to build up their own--
19:43 Their own system.
19:44 Their own system first.
19:46 Build up their database, build up the content,
19:49 and then link up.
19:51 So most of those that have been on board the eGov app
19:58 are those government agencies that have their ICT systems.
20:01 They have their own data set database already.
20:04 I see.
20:04 So we just provide the link.
20:05 Integrate it.
20:06 Integrate, provide the link.
20:07 Now, the challenge that we face was all the systems are varied.
20:12 Oh, OK.
20:13 Different standards, different providers.
20:16 Some of them have vendor lock-ins.
20:18 Oh, OK.
20:20 Vendor lock-ins.
20:21 So we cannot touch their system unless the vendor
20:24 says they're allowing it.
20:27 So we have to work with many of those.
20:31 Are you looking at maybe voting registration
20:35 to be available on the eGov app?
20:38 What about the national ID?
20:39 Is that going to be part of--
20:40 So that's part of this year.
20:43 We are working to integrate the national ID
20:48 by converting the physical ID, the database,
20:53 into a digital ID format.
20:56 So the ID can be--
20:58 Can be both, card--
20:59 Physical and your app.
21:01 Yeah, app on the mobile phone.
21:04 But this is a very sensitive area.
21:09 Very political, yeah.
21:10 That's just political in terms of security.
21:13 So we have to be not doubly, but triply careful in building up
21:22 the security, exploring all the different best practices
21:30 all over the world on how the digital IDs are
21:35 being handled elsewhere, what were the vulnerabilities
21:41 that they have discovered, and what were the remediation
21:48 that they've done to work on those.
21:52 Then we learn from all of them, and then we
21:55 apply them to the system.
21:58 On top of that, we need also to clean up
22:02 our database and the national ID.
22:07 There are some issues that need to be threshed out
22:11 with the national ID.
22:13 I mean, that's probably one of the reasons
22:15 why it's taking forever to get the printed IDs out,
22:20 because there are issues in the database.
22:25 There are issues in the printing,
22:29 which we cannot convert directly into digital.
22:37 Otherwise, the classic saying, garbage in, garbage out.
22:40 Yeah, yeah.
22:43 If those are not clean, by the time it gets to us
22:48 and we convert it to a digital ID, then we'll be getting--
22:54 Like dead people.
22:55 Yes, yes.
22:56 So those things have to be worked on,
22:59 have to be properly formatted, and then
23:05 verified multiple times.
23:08 What are your concerns with regard to security?
23:11 I mean, the most obvious thing is people's phones
23:15 get stolen all the time.
23:17 What's on your mind on how to maybe secure personal data
23:23 with simple things like that, just theft, robbery?
23:27 Yes, well, in most cases, access, identity verification,
23:35 is important.
23:37 And in the past, the ECS has been using PINs or passwords.
23:44 But as you said--
23:45 They're vulnerable.
23:46 They're very vulnerable.
23:48 They can easily get stolen.
23:50 Your phones get stolen, or they lose their credentials,
23:55 and then the criminals get hold of them and use them.
24:00 So in most cases worldwide, they're now using biometrics.
24:04 I see.
24:05 So with biometrics, they'll have to steal your face,
24:08 or your fingers, or your iris, whatever.
24:15 So I think that is the trend in most countries.
24:20 And once you move into that direction,
24:22 that even if they steal your phone
24:25 without a physical verification of your facial biometrics
24:30 or your fingerprint, they won't be able to access,
24:33 or they won't be able to use your stolen devices.
24:36 That also allows for double verification.
24:42 We call it multi-factor authentication.
24:44 OK.
24:46 In order to-- even if somebody steals your password,
24:51 if the system requires a password plus--
24:55 OTP.
24:57 OTP and a facial recognition, then
25:01 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
25:11 So I think that will be the trend.
25:16 And that's what we're looking at in addressing many
25:21 of the frauds that's been happening.
25:22 Yeah.
25:23 Well, can you talk about that?
25:24 Because last time we had you over for a forum,
25:26 this is one of, I think, the major things on your plate,
25:30 was insurance security.
25:33 As we transition to a more digital society,
25:37 you talked about the threats.
25:39 But we were talking before we started
25:41 how the SIM registration seemed to be working fairly well.
25:46 I mean, of course, there's still some bugs to work on.
25:49 But they seem to be working well enough.
25:54 But of course, criminals being criminals, they find--
25:57 Ways.
25:57 Other ways to go about it.
26:00 So what's worrying you the most?
26:03 And what are you doing about that for this year?
26:07 Well, just to give you a background there,
26:10 so the first law that the president signed
26:12 was the SIM card registration law
26:14 during the current administration.
26:16 And we faced a lot of challenges.
26:19 But that was a very good law.
26:21 And it was very effective.
26:23 So as has been reported by the telcos,
26:27 there has been like 80 plus, 85% or something like that?
26:31 85% drop.
26:33 Yeah, drop in tax scams.
26:35 In tax scams.
26:37 And that's significant.
26:38 Yeah.
26:39 That's significant.
26:40 So we've cut off, basically, an avenue where
26:47 they commit a lot of the scams.
26:50 On top of that, we busted several syndicates
26:55 that have been using these mobile phones, SIM cards,
27:00 in conducting their nefarious activities.
27:06 So a lot of the syndicates have been
27:09 operating within Metro Manila.
27:12 And--
27:12 Actually, they're local.
27:14 They're not foreign syndicates?
27:18 There are a few foreign syndicates.
27:19 But most of them are local.
27:23 And after busting several of them, whole buildings,
27:30 these are operations where they occupy four or five floors
27:34 in buildings.
27:36 They're run very professionally.
27:37 Like a call center or something?
27:39 Yes, like a BPO.
27:40 Yeah.
27:40 They run like a BPO.
27:42 And they're very professional.
27:44 Wow.
27:46 You cannot imagine how these syndicates operate.
27:50 They outsource specializations.
27:53 So to give you a picture, they break it
27:59 into several segments of specialization.
28:03 Oh, wow.
28:03 So they outsource it to, let's say,
28:07 a team or an organization that does collecting
28:12 of names and identities.
28:16 OK.
28:17 So this group scrounges all the databases, all the cemeteries,
28:25 all the hospitals.
28:28 If they can get a list of the phone directories or whatever,
28:31 they get all the names.
28:33 And then they assemble the names, the birth dates,
28:35 the addresses, everything, until they have more or less
28:39 a complete list of the private information of every person,
28:46 alive or dead.
28:48 Right.
28:49 Once they've accumulated that, they now
28:51 sell that to this group.
28:55 Now, this group, another group specializes
28:59 in generating the identity papers.
29:03 So they go to somewhere here, Avenida.
29:09 Recto, sorry.
29:11 And they manufacture fake documents, driver's license,
29:19 passports, ID, government-issued government IDs that are fake,
29:25 using all those credentials.
29:27 And then they put the faces of different people to do that.
29:33 Once those identities are done with all the fake credentials,
29:39 then they go now to another group
29:43 that specializes in scamming.
29:46 So this group is very glib.
29:49 They have a script that they follow.
29:53 They can imitate a script that they are from a credit card
29:57 company.
29:58 And they have the exact dialogue.
30:01 The questions that are being asked by the credit card
30:03 companies, the verification, everything, even their diction,
30:08 are all trained.
30:11 Once they are successful in the scamming,
30:15 it's now deposited in the accounts.
30:17 And then it's endorsed now to a fourth group
30:20 that does the money laundering.
30:23 This is a very sophisticated operation.
30:26 Do we have an idea how much they earn from all of this?
30:31 Huge.
30:33 Are we talking about billions of pesos, billions of dollars?
30:37 In my last meeting with the ASEAN digital ministers
30:42 in Singapore, we tackled this issue.
30:45 Last year, the financial loss in terms of cybercrime in ASEAN
30:56 was $1 trillion.
30:59 $1 trillion, wow.
31:00 ASEAN.
31:01 Wow.
31:03 Wow.
31:03 Cybercrime.
31:04 This includes not just scams, but includes ransomware,
31:11 the hacking, all of those, loss of reputation.
31:14 Yeah, yeah.
31:15 And what's your outlook?
31:17 Do you think it's going to be at that level?
31:20 Do you think it's going to get worse?
31:22 Because criminals, they get creative.
31:24 And of course, technology is, in a sense, also an enabler.
31:29 What's your sense looking forward?
31:32 Well, governments have to work together.
31:38 Because a lot of these cybercriminals cross border.
31:42 They do cross border transactions, money laundering.
31:47 And so that's what the ICT ministers have been sitting
31:52 down and working on.
31:54 How do we go after them as a group that can be more effective
32:00 and can ensure that they are held accountable?
32:05 So we actually expect it to further increase.
32:10 OK.
32:10 It's going to get worse.
32:11 Yes, because the cybercriminals have found it very lucrative.
32:17 And they're investing more funds into the operation.
32:21 Because it's rewarding for them.
32:25 And they're taking advantage because a lot of governments
32:30 are reactive.
32:32 Can we educate people a bit?
32:33 I mean, who's the most vulnerable here?
32:35 Are we talking about individuals?
32:37 Are we talking about businesses?
32:40 Or are we talking about everyone?
32:41 And then what can we tell them?
32:44 Different levels.
32:45 OK.
32:45 Different levels.
32:46 OK.
32:47 In most cases, the scams work on the elderly and the young
32:55 people.
32:56 They're the more gullible.
32:58 Yeah.
32:59 And they operate on basic weaknesses, human weaknesses.
33:07 They exploit hope.
33:10 Yeah.
33:10 They exploit greed.
33:11 Yeah.
33:13 They dangle that you're going to earn.
33:16 Yeah.
33:17 An unrealistic amount of money.
33:19 Yeah.
33:20 For a very small investment.
33:21 Yeah.
33:22 They bait you.
33:23 And people who are greedy are often victimized
33:25 because they want to get more.
33:27 Yeah.
33:28 And so the advice really is, if it's too good to be true,
33:31 it is.
33:32 OK.
33:32 And don't fall for it.
33:35 But the ransomware criminal organizations, they hit the--
33:42 This is the wholesale.
33:43 Yes.
33:44 They hit the large companies.
33:45 Yeah.
33:45 Because these are the ones where they steal or they
33:51 penetrate your computer system.
33:53 Yeah.
33:53 And then they lock up your computer system
33:56 with encryption.
33:58 Once it's locked up, then you cannot access.
34:00 Yeah.
34:01 And then they demand for a very high amount of ransom
34:05 before they release it.
34:06 And in most cases, what we've seen
34:09 is that if those companies pay, it's temporary.
34:14 Then they get attacked again.
34:15 They get attacked again.
34:16 Because now these criminal organizations
34:18 know that these guys pay.
34:19 Right.
34:20 So what is the--
34:21 You encourage them to attack.
34:23 What is the solution?
34:23 Should they go to DICT and say, hey, take over our system?
34:30 No, we don't take over their system.
34:32 But what we do is we've been providing them with guidelines.
34:35 OK.
34:36 We're providing them with training.
34:40 And we direct them.
34:43 For instance, to companies that can do their vulnerability
34:49 assessment, their penetration testing,
34:53 we regularly come up with advisories
34:56 to update their security patches.
35:01 In most cases, in many cases, these large events
35:05 happen over long holidays.
35:09 Because they--
35:10 They're not as vigilant.
35:12 Right.
35:12 The thing is, even if you have a very robust system,
35:16 sometimes the weakest link is the employee
35:19 who shares a password or something like that.
35:22 Yes.
35:23 How do you--
35:24 Like the employee who work from home.
35:26 Yeah.
35:27 So in the past, without work from home,
35:31 you can only access the company--
35:33 From work.
35:33 From work.
35:34 So they have the computer terminal that you do it.
35:37 Now, because of the pandemic, you work from home.
35:40 They end up accessing those systems
35:45 from their home computer.
35:46 And sometimes many of those home computers
35:48 are shared with their children.
35:50 Right.
35:50 Who are downloading--
35:52 All sorts of--
35:52 All sorts of games.
35:53 Games and videos.
35:54 Yeah.
35:55 Yeah.
35:55 Videos that are--
35:57 They don't know they have malware.
35:58 Backdoor or whatever that's embedded there.
36:00 And that's how they get in.
36:02 So what's the easy solution there?
36:05 There's no easy solution.
36:06 There's no easy solution.
36:07 It's a bitter pill.
36:08 It's an expensive pill.
36:10 We need to update because the criminals are updating.
36:15 We need to hire because the cybercriminals are hiring.
36:18 Are there any laws or new policies
36:21 that maybe the government should be looking at,
36:23 maybe to put more teeth into?
36:25 Or would that even work?
36:26 I mean, capacity building of law enforcement?
36:29 That's where we need to work with the judiciary.
36:32 I see.
36:34 There was a cybercrime law that was passed early on.
36:39 And the cybercrime law provided certain teeth
36:43 to law enforcement in order to go after these cybercriminals.
36:48 Unfortunately, at that time, the Supreme Court
36:51 struck down those provisions as being unconstitutional.
36:54 I see.
36:55 Because--
36:56 Well, the--
36:57 Privacy issues.
36:58 It's a privacy issue, freedom of speech,
37:03 and all of the civil liberties that could possibly
37:08 be affected, given the nature of cybercrime
37:15 and the nature of the intervention
37:18 that the law allows law enforcers.
37:22 So now, the hands are tied.
37:28 There are tools that are available worldwide,
37:32 which many countries, including the most democratic countries
37:36 around the world, that are using to go after and to address
37:42 these.
37:43 But unfortunately, in the Philippines, we are not able--
37:47 Are you working on a new version of the bill?
37:50 So there are some members of Congress, senators,
37:55 who have seen that and is working with us
37:59 on how we can properly reformulate the law so that it
38:07 would satisfy the constitutional requirements,
38:11 but at the same time, it's not a disabler.
38:14 Because the cybercriminals don't care.
38:17 They are going to do what they want to do.
38:20 And it's going to be anting up.
38:28 And so long as we don't keep up, they're
38:31 going to be quite effective.
38:33 So I take it no bill has been filed as yet?
38:35 They are working.
38:36 You're working on a draft?
38:37 Yes.
38:38 Can we switch a bit?
38:39 Because I know you're very busy.
38:41 What's in the pipeline for the ICT for 2024?
38:44 What are the big goals that you're
38:49 looking at for this year?
38:50 Well, this is a good segue, since we're
38:53 talking about cybersecurity and crime.
38:55 Very important.
38:56 Right.
38:56 So one of the major activities that we
39:01 are going to push this year is building up
39:04 our capacity and our talent in cybersecurity,
39:09 as well as using all the new tools available out there.
39:14 AI, artificial intelligence, in order
39:17 to become a better enabler of our human capital,
39:24 our human resources, and allow them now
39:27 to use these new technologies in battling cyber criminals,
39:33 as well as in preventing these criminals from being successful
39:42 in their criminal activities.
39:45 So we will be working with international organizations,
39:54 countries, as well, in order to build up--
40:00 first, the general population should
40:06 have better cyber awareness, cyber hygiene practices that
40:12 can be done by the general public.
40:15 Right.
40:15 Then we are going to build up a more specialized group that
40:19 are all IT professionals already,
40:23 that we are going to make into cybersecurity professionals.
40:27 Now, worldwide, there's about 2 to 3 million job vacancies--
40:32 So an opportunity, yeah.
40:33 --for cybersecurity specialists.
40:35 OK.
40:36 So we have a very good segment of the population
40:40 that are IT literate.
40:42 OK.
40:43 Not just IT literate, but IT proficient.
40:46 OK.
40:47 Especially in our BPO sector, right?
40:49 So we are supplying a lot of these IT workers,
40:54 but they're not trained in cybersecurity.
40:58 So now we want to put that as an added credential.
41:03 Then perhaps with that kind of enabling training,
41:09 then the value proposition of our IT BPM sector
41:13 will be much higher.
41:14 That's interesting.
41:15 Because now, instead of outsourcing to other countries
41:18 that are also offering IT BPM services,
41:22 if they outsource to the Philippines,
41:24 they are assured that these people here
41:26 are not just ICT proficient, but cybersecurity proficient.
41:31 What's a ballpark demand for something like that?
41:34 I mean, is that something that we
41:38 could look at as maybe a possible area
41:41 where we can generate jobs?
41:43 Our IT BPO sector, our IT BPM sector,
41:47 employs about 1.7 million people.
41:50 OK.
41:51 So that's a huge pool of ICT proficient, ICT literate.
41:58 Whether these are nurses that are doing medical transcription
42:02 or call center agents, they all know how to use their computers.
42:07 They know all the--
42:09 so I think that's a--
42:10 Are we looking to double that or maybe--
42:13 That's a low-hanging fruit.
42:15 Just training this 1.7 million--
42:17 Can meet that--
42:19 Then, no.
42:20 We go down the next level and train the next level.
42:25 And they don't have to be as proficient in--
42:28 Yes, we call this micro-certification.
42:30 I see.
42:31 Because these people, you need maybe a six-month training,
42:34 and they'll already be there.
42:35 So who does the certification?
42:37 Is it private sector?
42:39 There are many, many certifications.
42:42 I see.
42:43 Whether-- there are international certifications.
42:46 There are vendor-specific certifications,
42:51 like from Google, from Amazon, from Microsoft, from Cisco.
42:59 I see.
42:59 They have their own respective certifications.
43:01 And do you think it's going to pay as lucratively as maybe
43:04 the BPOs now or more?
43:05 Even more, I think.
43:06 Even more.
43:07 Wow.
43:08 OK.
43:08 Even more.
43:09 And so these are the things that--
43:12 because it will generate not just a large amount
43:16 of employment--
43:17 I see.
43:17 --but increase the value of our workers.
43:21 Is that something that requires a college degree?
43:24 Or do you think a high school diploma with certification
43:27 would be sufficient?
43:28 That's where we are looking at.
43:32 Because the paradigm in the past,
43:34 you need to have a college degree before you get employed.
43:38 But when you talk to all of these hackers, many of them--
43:42 They don't have college degrees.
43:43 They barely have a high school diploma,
43:45 but they're extremely good.
43:47 So train them.
43:50 Get them employed.
43:52 They don't need those--
43:54 Diploma.
43:54 --those framed diplomas there.
43:56 And they'll probably be earning more than any of those people
43:59 with the diploma.
44:01 And companies are going to hire them.
44:06 So can you imagine the requirement for a security
44:10 guard would be higher than the requirement for a cybersecurity
44:15 expert?
44:17 You mentioned artificial intelligence.
44:21 People have been talking about it for the past year,
44:24 or even longer, about the threats.
44:28 But from your perspective, are you worried?
44:31 Are you optimistic?
44:31 It's a double-edged sword.
44:33 But are you more worried, or are you
44:34 more excited about the potential of AI?
44:38 And what would be the most, I suppose,
44:42 noticeable impact on Philippine society of AI
44:47 this coming year, you think?
44:49 Well, technology is always a double-edged sword.
44:52 I mean, fire can be used for constructive means,
44:56 but it can also be very destructive.
44:58 So any technology-- so we just--
45:02 we need to guide the technology for good.
45:09 And AI is the same.
45:10 AI has the potential for greater good, because it empowers
45:18 and it simplifies a lot of the work that
45:23 used to be quite challenging.
45:26 But at the same time, if misdirected,
45:29 it can be a great evil.
45:31 And that is the concern that many AI advocates worldwide,
45:41 the story of Elon and Sam Altman and Microsoft, Bill Gates.
45:47 So the move towards AI is inevitable.
45:55 And it is as disruptive as the discovery of fire
46:03 or the invention of the wheel.
46:06 And it will be a game changer to many.
46:11 There will be many companies that
46:14 are conglomerates, industries that
46:18 will disappear if they cannot anticipate the disruptions
46:24 that AI is going to bring.
46:26 And there will be new industries and new jobs
46:31 and new billionaires that's going to be created.
46:37 Do you think the BPO sector is one of those
46:39 that may see a lot of job losses?
46:42 Or do you think just maybe sectors of it?
46:44 Or do you-- as you said, maybe they'll
46:47 transition into cybersecurity or something?
46:50 The BPOs, as well as many others,
46:52 even our financial sector, our industries worldwide.
46:58 Those who do not adopt are going to suffer and disappear
47:04 the way Kodak disappeared, the way Nokia, mobile phones,
47:11 Xerox.
47:14 So there will be a lot of changes.
47:20 And the landscape's still continuing to evolve.
47:28 We need to constantly be aware and be
47:33 very observant as to which directions it's moving so
47:38 that we can direct our path towards those directions.
47:42 So you're not totally pessimistic about BPOs and maybe--
47:48 I mean, because they've been saying that they'll
47:50 lose jobs because of automation.
47:52 But we've seen it grow despite the automation.
47:55 They transition--
47:57 AI will not replace jobs.
48:00 These jobs will be replaced by other people who
48:03 know how to use AI.
48:06 That's why it's important that we train our people to use AI.
48:14 Because then we maintain our global competitiveness.
48:20 And we ensure that our jobs will be relevant
48:26 and will be necessary to service the rest of the world.
48:31 That's why AI is a great enabler.
48:37 But my biggest concern are those companies
48:41 that do not see it yet.
48:44 And are sitting on their laurels and relaxing and saying,
48:50 that's not--
48:51 That's going to happen way down the road.
48:53 Right.
48:53 Next thing you know, it's there.
48:56 The AI adoption is exponential.
48:58 We've seen all the graphs.
49:00 It's been like that.
49:01 And in the past two, three years, it went up like that.
49:04 Yeah.
49:05 It's really sharp, sharp.
49:06 And it's going to continue.
49:08 So every month, there are going to be developments and changes.
49:20 Who knows, maybe the next interview you do
49:23 with an AI-generated reporter.
49:26 Well, you see the president when he was in--
49:30 In Singapore?
49:31 Yeah.
49:32 And he was in Singapore doing a hologram.
49:35 A hologram delivering.
49:36 I think it's first time that that's been done.
49:41 Fantastic.
49:41 And it's the Philippines.
49:44 Any other big ticket items you'd like to share about for 2024
49:47 for DICT?
49:49 Well, we are going to also deploy our national digital ID.
49:56 So we're just working out all the kinks in the system.
50:02 And we've been sandboxing it already for the past year.
50:08 And we've actually hired a lot of cyber security and hackers
50:15 to test it, to hack it, and to do all of those,
50:20 anything that they can do.
50:23 So I'm optimistic that this year,
50:29 we should be able to deploy a national digital ID.
50:34 What do you need?
50:34 I mean, what do you need from Congress?
50:36 What do you need from, I guess, the other guys?
50:38 I mean, you need more funding.
50:39 But we're talking about your budget.
50:41 It's a billion less than what you had asked for.
50:44 Well, we're hoping that once Congress sees how--
50:49 It seems like you guys are at the forefront of everything
50:52 that is changing.
50:54 You need more resources now than ever.
50:57 Yes, but definitely.
50:59 Well, we have to prove ourselves.
51:01 And we have to show to our legislators,
51:05 to the people who hold the purse strings,
51:10 that we can implement projects, that we
51:14 are able to do a lot of good for our country,
51:20 and that these projects can benefit the people,
51:25 can benefit our global competitiveness.
51:29 And I think once they're assured that all of these can be done,
51:36 and they can see that we just need more fuel, more ammunition,
51:42 then perhaps it should be forthcoming.
51:46 Well, Secretary, very nice to talk to you.
51:49 And I wish you luck.
51:50 You seem like you're going to be very busy this year.
51:54 Just like last year.
51:55 Just like last year, and probably the years after that.
51:58 But if there are new updates, we'd
52:00 like to have you over again, maybe just to get an update.
52:03 Maybe we should recommend to Congress to use maybe AI
52:06 or chat GPT to draft some of the bills that you need.
52:09 So it'll be faster.
52:11 [LAUGHTER]
52:13 Secretary, good.
52:14 Thank you.
52:14 Thank you very much.
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