Swansea win, old guard, Elland Road expectation, potential loans, Football Manager and the small matter of some annual awards.
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00:00 Hello and welcome back to the Inside Ellander Road podcast with myself Joe Donoghue and
00:07 your YAP chief football writer, Graham Smith.
00:09 A bit of a difference to this week's episode because it's probably the closest we've ever
00:14 been geographically when recording one of these, Graham.
00:17 You're just down the hallway, the Village Hotel in Blackpool, because yesterday evening,
00:21 Thursday, November the 30th, was the National World Annual Awards.
00:26 Whatever the professionals, a pair of us were up bright and early to record this morning
00:30 to ensure we don't miss a week.
00:32 How did we get on at the awards, Graham?
00:36 Very well.
00:39 We were crowned the best podcast in the company.
00:45 We should stress as well that that's not the best podcast at the YAP, because obviously
00:51 that wouldn't be such a grand achievement.
00:53 It's the best podcast in our company that owns various newspapers like the Scotsman
00:58 and the Yorkshire Post and some other kind of posh titles and various newspapers dotted
01:04 around the country and in Northern Ireland.
01:06 So yeah, we did alright.
01:07 We got a nice little trophy.
01:10 We do have a nice little trophy.
01:12 How did you do personally?
01:14 I did okay as well.
01:17 Joint winner, joint, not outright, joint winner of the Sports Journalist of the Year,
01:24 sharing it with a guy called Mark Dunford, a very, very worthy winner himself.
01:29 So I did say to him way up to the podium that he could have it for six months and then I
01:34 would take over, but they very kindly handed each a trophy.
01:38 And then one of our colleagues very kindly dug out that picture of the charity shield
01:43 being hoisted aloft by two captains.
01:47 Which I think is very appropriate, very, very appropriate and very funny.
01:53 But yes, thank you to everyone who's listened to the podcast, everyone who's shared it and
01:59 given us some positive feedback, or even people who've coined less than complimentary nicknames
02:06 for the pair of us, because I suppose it's all contributed to us being nominated for
02:12 that.
02:13 So thank you very much.
02:14 But yeah, onto the important stuff, Leeds United winning in midweek against Swansea,
02:20 it's Middlesbrough this weekend.
02:21 And yeah, straight from here, you're going to go and speak to Daniel Farker today, aren't
02:26 you?
02:27 Yeah, hot-footing across the Thorpe Arch to find out if there's actually any news at all
02:32 to be had from Daniel Farker today, because it all feels quite, I wouldn't say uneventful,
02:37 because the game itself was quite dramatic.
02:40 But for the first time in a long, long, long time, Leeds had only one injury absentee,
02:45 that was Stuart Dallas, the long-term one.
02:48 Everyone else, the question marks had all been removed.
02:52 And while Jed Spence didn't play, he was part of the squad, which was a talking point in
02:56 itself.
02:58 So yeah, we'll be off across the Thorpe Arch today to find out if everyone came through
03:02 that okay, and where Jed Spence is, I suppose, in relation to match minutes.
03:08 I imagine still he's going to be drip-fed in, it'll be appearances off the bench until
03:13 he's fully match fit.
03:15 But I think the game in midweek against Swansea, it answered, or partly answered, the lingering
03:24 question mark hanging over the squad and Farker as a whole when it comes to their killer instinct.
03:30 I think about not only the games that they didn't win against Stoke, against Sheffield
03:36 on Wednesday, against Rotherham more recently, where they really should have won and they
03:40 had enough chances to win.
03:41 I think about the wins, like the Huddersfield game at home, you score four goals in the
03:45 first half and then just kind of took the foot off the gas a little bit in the second
03:50 half.
03:51 Plymouth as well, they won that game but they could have won it at a canter.
03:56 It all just adds up to make you wonder, do they have the ability to be consistently ruthless,
04:04 to just get what they deserve when they deserve it?
04:08 They deserved wins in all those games.
04:12 The Swansea game was a good sign, I think, because it could have gone another way because
04:17 of the way the game started.
04:21 They got the result and the scoreline that they deserved.
04:23 They probably could have won 6-1, to be honest, but 3-1 was enough in the end.
04:28 One of the things that you said after the game, or rather you asked after the game,
04:31 was Michael Duff, the Swansea manager, just how effective and how terrifying that Leeds
04:39 United front four can be to opposition coaches.
04:43 He replied with 'which four?' because of course Leeds have Willy Nyonto and Jadon Anthony
04:47 on the bench and Patrick Bamford as well to come on in place of Routier or Pirro.
04:55 To an extent, he's right.
04:56 You look at the goal contributions that that front four, at least the starting front four,
05:00 have this season.
05:01 Somerville, already in double figures for goals and assists.
05:05 Routier, another one who's in double figures for goals and assists.
05:08 I believe that Dan James is maybe one short, but he might already be in there.
05:14 Then you've also got Pirro as well, who, yes, if he got a few more assists, I think he'd
05:19 be on 10 for goal contributions as well.
05:22 So, I mean, it's kind of all going to plan.
05:27 It is.
05:28 He's got 41 goal contributions between them, which I think is remarkable at this stage.
05:34 Somerville is on fire and largely unstoppable when he gets into that, what we should probably
05:39 call his office, just to the left side of the box and cuts in towards the right.
05:45 But he's creating goals as well.
05:47 And Routier, we should talk at length about his goal, really, but even just about that
05:52 first touch for the goal.
05:55 But he's now got seven assists.
05:57 He's created 16 big chances, at least, in the Championship.
06:02 It's what lies beneath, I think, that's going to be really key for Leeds, because at some
06:07 stage Somerville might be injured, Routier might be injured or they might need a rest.
06:13 Or also, even in just in games where they're starting for play but then come off.
06:18 I think Bamford, Jadon Anthony, Willy Nyonto and Jan Povejda are going to have to start
06:25 weighing in with more goals and assists of their own.
06:28 They're going to have to add a more significant end product contribution.
06:33 And it's difficult because they're coming into games late.
06:35 Quite often it's only a short cameo.
06:38 But if Leeds had the same potency throughout the game, no matter which combination was
06:45 in the attack, then they really would be a very frightening prospect.
06:48 And I don't think anyone would score as many goals in the division as them.
06:53 I just don't think anyone else can say, "We've got a front eight," if you like.
06:58 Two front fours like this.
07:02 But Farke must be absolutely delighted because there were no guarantees that Routier was
07:06 going to catch fire and just be so invested in Leeds United in the way he is.
07:11 Somerville, I think, was a pretty safe bet.
07:14 Dan James, though, the end product he's had, I think, is going to be far and away his best
07:21 return in a Championship season.
07:23 If he carries on at this rate.
07:25 And Pierrot as well.
07:27 He's a proven goalscorer at this level.
07:29 So you would expect him to be up there with 20 goals.
07:33 So yeah, Farke must be very pleased.
07:37 Not as pleased as you were by the food offered up at Ellen Rose in midweek.
07:41 A few dietary requirements on your side, but they were very catering for you.
07:48 One of the joys of my life is the look on Popey's face when what he's offered is vastly
07:55 different to what I'm offered because I can't eat what he's eating.
08:01 Leeds United really stepped up on Wednesday night.
08:02 I had a lime green, it didn't taste like lime, it was just lime green in color, a lime green
08:08 sesame seed bun with a deep fried mushroom kind of burger with some coleslaw in there
08:15 as well.
08:16 And it was like wedges, like crinkly wedges.
08:20 It was, I have to say, it was up there with the, probably the top five, top 10 fare that
08:30 I've been supplied since I started covering Leeds home or away.
08:34 Very good.
08:35 I believe they're called waffle fries as well.
08:36 There we go.
08:37 Waffle fries.
08:38 Technical term.
08:39 Yeah.
08:40 So what about the opportunity?
08:41 Would you have that burger again or would you watch Georginio Ruta's goal for the first
08:48 time again?
08:49 Oh, I'd definitely eat the burger because I'm largely a selfish human being, but that
08:58 goal was, I mean, that first touch was ridiculous, wasn't it?
09:03 Plucking the ball down at the air.
09:05 And what I liked about it was he'd been throwing up the arms and giving it the garlic shrug
09:12 because he'd been making those runs in behind and people hadn't been spotting it or they'd
09:17 been opting to keep the ball and recycle it instead of playing it long for him.
09:22 And Ampadu, first half stoppage time, the game's 1-1.
09:27 It's kind of drifted for a long time.
09:28 The game leads were almost very good in the first half and lots of their work, lots of
09:34 through balls that almost made it and counterattacks that were almost on, nearly moments.
09:40 And then Ampadu just looks up and just pings it over the top of the last defender.
09:44 And to bring the ball down when you're facing away from the sender, the ball's dropping
09:50 down over your shoulder, to kill it like that.
09:53 I mean, that touch was as good as any Jack Harrison supplied at Elland Road.
09:59 He absolutely killed it dead and took it on in a stride into the area.
10:04 And the finish was ice cold, as Daniel Farke said a couple of times after the game.
10:10 That's exactly what you want from your centre forward.
10:12 And it's probably been the only thing you could criticise Routier for because his work
10:16 rate has been phenomenal.
10:17 His hold up play, his link up play have been great.
10:20 He mucks in, he gets back and helps out.
10:24 He's there for defending corners, but it's just been his finishing that's been the little
10:29 fly in the ointment.
10:31 And that was super hard.
10:33 Really good finish.
10:35 Speaking of good finishes, you look at the goal which Daniel James scored as well.
10:39 Again, another player who has maybe been criticised for his finishing, criticised for his composure
10:44 in the final third.
10:46 It's countless times since he signed for Leeds that we've seen him go clean through on goal
10:51 and blast one into the side netting or well over the bar.
10:54 But again, similar to the two finishes that he had against Huddersfield, that one against
10:59 Swansea on Wednesday night was composed, it was calm, it was measured and ultimately was
11:06 the difference between a nervy ending to the game and actually a quite comfortable finish.
11:13 Both of his finishes were good.
11:14 I thought the one that was disallied on 40 seconds was a great goal.
11:18 Really lovely pass from Routier across the area.
11:20 And I'm just going to take the linesman's word on it because I haven't seen an angle
11:24 that suggests he was onside.
11:27 Then Swansea break of course and stick the ball in the back of the Leeds net within seconds.
11:33 Dan James, he can frustrate people because there's times when he'll lash at it.
11:40 But this time, the run was good, the pass from Routier was good.
11:45 He takes a touch and then just roofs it.
11:48 He did lash at it but he controlled the finish and sent it into the roof of the net.
11:54 He's been a bit of a revelation this season, Dan James, because he's doing all the things
12:00 that we knew of him.
12:03 He's doing all the running, he's doing the defending, he's getting into good areas, his
12:08 pace is helping on the counter-attack.
12:10 But his goals and assists now are nine in total.
12:15 He's got nine?
12:16 I think it's nine.
12:17 I think it's four goals, five assists or five goals, four assists.
12:20 I think it might be five and four.
12:24 After 18 games of the season, even accounting for the drop in standard from the Premier
12:30 League, I don't think many would have predicted that he would be starting.
12:36 I think everyone assumed right back at the start it would be Sinisterra and Somerville
12:41 or Nyonto and Somerville.
12:43 I don't think anyone saw James keeping Nyonto sitting down on the bench for this long.
12:52 If he carries on in that vein, like I said earlier, it'll probably be his best season
12:56 in the Championship ever.
12:58 So they've just got to keep these players in form.
13:02 I suppose the big thing for Farka is whatever the recipe to success for consistency is,
13:10 is it just allowing them to enjoy their football and saying, "Keep going, keep doing what you're
13:15 doing," or is there a way that he can make it even better so that they're not just scoring
13:20 three in games, they're scoring four and five?
13:25 You look at the level of opponent that Leeds have faced at home, and yes, there's been
13:32 your QPRs, your Watfords, your Sheffield Wednesday.
13:34 It won't always be of that calibre.
13:37 I suppose with someone like Middlesbrough coming up, under a good coach, under somebody
13:42 who has really got them playing again after a difficult start to the season, it'll be
13:48 a good acid test to see just how much of a fortress Elandrode is.
13:55 Because obviously it's ten games now this season that Leeds have gone unbeaten in all
13:59 competitions at home.
14:03 It's a great standout figure, but again, you do have to apply the caveat that yes, this
14:08 is the championship and this is a team in the championship that probably has a lower
14:14 half Premier League squad or certainly lower half Premier League starting 11.
14:20 So yeah, there does need to be some considerations made there, but without wanting to sound too
14:28 negative the morning after we've won an award for this podcast, but all good things come
14:33 to an end.
14:34 So I think it's probably prudent to use a Bielsa-ism to just enjoy the getting while
14:44 the getting's good and not over-analyse it too much.
14:48 That's why I've not been too high on, well, yes, they're winning games, but they're not
14:53 obliterating teams.
14:55 They're winning games.
14:56 They haven't been doing that for two years.
14:57 So enjoy it while it's good because if Leeds do get promoted, then it's not going to be
15:03 a case of Leeds sitting at the top of the table next season.
15:07 So it's a strange thing, football supportership.
15:12 It is and I think what you're saying plays into the atmosphere a little bit at Elland
15:16 Road.
15:17 I felt it was a little bit, yes, there wasn't a great deal, first four minutes aside, there
15:21 wasn't a great deal to get into in the first half and Elland Road did feel flat at times
15:26 and I think it's because there's expectation.
15:30 There's not the same urgency of we need to play our part here because we could go down.
15:35 That urgency that really fired up Elland Road when Leeds had their backs against the wall
15:40 and were getting pummeled.
15:44 They're expected to win.
15:45 They're expected to beat these teams and I think, I don't know if I'd use the word complacency,
15:50 but it certainly changes the dynamic of Elland Road and there can be grumbles and frustrations
15:57 when the team, particularly because I don't think they played brilliantly first half against
16:03 Swansea.
16:04 I thought they played better second half and controlled the game very, very well and of
16:09 course got the third goal.
16:14 The entertainment factor, I was having this chat with somebody in the stairwell on the
16:20 way down to the press conference.
16:23 They are entertaining when they score goals, this Leeds team, and the goals they score
16:27 are very eye-catching, nice goals, but they're not a 100mph team.
16:34 They're not constant, relentless attacks and transition in the way that the Belsa Leeds
16:43 team was.
16:44 The Belsa Leeds team was swashbuckling, you would say.
16:47 It was just all out, go for it, go for the foot on the throttle, whatever you want to
16:51 call it.
16:52 This Leeds team is a bit more controlled, I would say.
16:56 They recycle the ball a lot, they keep the ball a lot and they probe and they push.
17:02 And then when they do hit the throttle, they tend to score lovely goals.
17:05 But there can be phases in games where it's not a thrill a minute.
17:15 Like the second half at Rotherham?
17:17 Yeah, where it was largely, we have 75% of the possession but we don't always do an incredible
17:26 amount with it.
17:27 But we've got the possession so the opponent can't score.
17:31 I suppose you just have to, that's one of those things, you just have to accept when
17:34 your team is winning.
17:35 You have to say, well actually we're winning games, we're third in the table, we're keeping
17:39 pressure on.
17:40 Yes, there's been a few blips here and there, but six wins in a row at home, that's ruthless.
17:49 That is ruthless form.
17:50 That's the kind of form that puts you in the playoff picture as a serious contender.
17:55 So I don't think there will be too many quibbles from people if there are stages in games where
18:00 Leeds are not absolutely flying.
18:02 But I suppose we should also say that there have been games where when they've been up,
18:10 the likes of Routier have provided the entertainment, the individuals have provided the entertainment
18:14 because it's been all the skills and the tricks and the flicks and the turns.
18:18 That's when this Leeds team is really flying and is really entertaining.
18:23 It's more of an individual thing I would say than the collective entertainment they provided
18:27 under Bielsa.
18:28 But it's a very, very different team isn't it to Bielsa's team?
18:33 And it's obviously going to be a different season then than the one that Bielsa's lot
18:38 put together.
18:39 And I think what's really interesting is that we are now seeing, probably for the first
18:45 time, that Leeds are moving on.
18:48 They're moving on with the Bielsa stalwarts, they're not moving on from them, they're moving
18:52 on with them, but they are moving on.
18:54 Because no longer do they rely on Luke Elling, Stuart Dallas, Liam Cooper, Patrick Bamford.
19:00 Those are not the players that are the first names on the team sheet and they're playing
19:04 a very, very different role this season.
19:06 I think Wednesday night felt like a little bit of a watershed moment in that regard with
19:10 Luke Elling not being able to make the matchday squad, first time since August 2022 I think.
19:16 And that was because there was no injury as far as we're aware?
19:20 No, there was no injury.
19:22 It was just a selection thing.
19:26 Speaking of the old guard then, if you will, because I know that a lot of people would
19:29 be quite loyal to the players that secured promotion three years ago.
19:36 And rightly so, because they were part of an incredible team.
19:41 But just playing on your point about moving on with them, they are very much in the building,
19:48 but you look at the contract situation, Luke Elling, Liam Cooper and Stuart Dallas all
19:53 have deals which are expiring next summer.
19:56 Do you feel as though the way that this team is evolving is maybe Daniel Farker looking
20:03 at the bigger picture and thinking, well, we might not necessarily have these players
20:08 next season, regardless of which division we're in.
20:12 We need to, I wouldn't say dependency, but we need to reduce the, well, essentially move
20:19 on.
20:20 Is that a fair assumption to make or is it just part of the course?
20:26 I think that's just a natural thing that should happen.
20:29 It should probably already have started to happen.
20:33 They definitely shouldn't have had to rely on Patrick Bamford as much as they did in
20:37 the last two seasons.
20:38 Because even when he was injured, everyone was looking to when's Bamford back?
20:43 We need to get Bamford back and fit and into the side.
20:48 And they missed him so much when he wasn't in the team.
20:51 They missed his hold-up play.
20:52 They missed the way he leads the press.
20:55 They missed that physical presence and focal point for the attack.
21:00 And it shouldn't have been that way.
21:04 They already should have started to gradually have other players step up into those roles.
21:11 But it just so happens that Fark has managed it this season.
21:15 He's managed it quite early on as well.
21:18 He's managed to put Pascal Stroik in a position where he's now so influential for leads, particularly
21:23 in possession, that there is no place for Liam Cooper when Pascal is fit.
21:28 Or that has certainly been the case to date.
21:31 Cooper's still going to play, as he has done, but he's not going to start anywhere near
21:37 as many games as he used to.
21:40 Eiling is probably most up against it because Bamford's the other centre-forward, the other
21:47 number nine in the squad, so he is going to see minutes.
21:50 But Eiling's got Jed Spence, who we're all expecting to play quite a significant part
21:56 once he's fit and firing.
21:58 There's also Archie Gray, who turns out to be a very solid right-back, as well as a midfield
22:05 prodigious talent.
22:07 So it's going to be even harder for Eiling to get into the matchday squad.
22:12 It was almost - it won't have felt this way for Eiling - but for leads it was almost a
22:17 tearing off of the plaster on Wednesday night.
22:21 The sharp shock of "Wow, Luke Eiling's been dropped from the matchday squad."
22:27 I think now that that's happened, it won't feel quite as stark when it happens again.
22:34 But it was really interesting what Farke said when he was asked about Eiling and how difficult
22:38 that was.
22:39 He really went to town on just how difficult he found the decision because he values Eiling
22:43 as a person and the contribution he plays.
22:46 It was nice that he gave us that insight into the dressing room and the way Eiling went
22:50 round and geeded everybody up, gave the manager a hug, even though he probably wanted to kill
22:54 him as Farke said.
22:57 I think from the players' point of view, they're faced with a choice, aren't they, of "Well,
23:03 I can make it about me and I can sulk and I can maybe look at January and think I need
23:11 to get out of here and play football."
23:13 Or they can look at the team and what the team needs.
23:15 It sounds to me like that's what Cooper and Eiling, when they've not been playing this
23:19 season, have done.
23:22 That's the terms that Farke's speaking about.
23:24 He's talking about their contribution to the team and to the squad and the role that they're
23:30 playing and making sure that everybody's on it in training and making sure that the players
23:33 at the head of them have to train really well to keep them out of the squad.
23:38 It's the way it should be, isn't it?
23:39 But it's not the way it always goes.
23:41 They are faced with a decision, aren't they, as to how they're going to respond to it.
23:45 To date, it sounds like their response has been exemplary.
23:49 Speaking of sulking, it sounds an awful lot like you at the awards having to share your
23:54 Journalist of the Year award.
23:55 That is not a fair and accurate representation.
23:58 I was delighted to share my award.
24:00 If anything, it makes it more special, Joe, when you share an award with someone else
24:04 who I'm quite sure is every bit as good as I am, if not better.
24:09 So no, that's a completely unfair comment from you.
24:13 The charity shield of Journalism Awards.
24:18 Brilliant.
24:19 And as well, you were reluctant to come up on the stage with myself when I went to collect
24:25 the Podcast of the Year award yesterday evening.
24:31 That was twofold.
24:32 One, I felt like you deserved your moment.
24:35 It's good to let the young pup have his moment, have his little moment in the sun.
24:40 But also, when the names came up on the big screen from the AV guys, it was only your
24:46 name next to the Inside Elm Road podcast.
24:51 So I also felt that maybe they don't want me up there.
24:55 Maybe they just want Joe up there.
24:56 So I just thought, no, let him have his day.
25:01 This is really painting a picture of you here.
25:04 And the word "sulk" is kind of coming back time and time again.
25:08 You're bringing it back time and time again.
25:10 Correct, I am, yeah.
25:11 For good reason, because it's funny.
25:14 But yeah, no, I mean, with the old guard, shall we say, you're calling me the young
25:20 pup, you're maybe the old guard of this podcast.
25:25 With the old guard at Leeds, it does beg the question, when will that happen with Bamford?
25:32 Because how many times can he come on in games this season and not materially contribute?
25:40 Because yes, he did against QPR and he would have done against Stoker, had he not missed
25:44 the penalty.
25:45 But I don't know, is there an opportunity for somebody like Matteo Joseph?
25:51 Because he's a pressing forward as well, he's very energetic.
25:55 Is there a point where Daniel Farker says, well, actually, I'd quite like to try somebody
26:01 different in that position, coming off the bench, trying to be an impactful player?
26:05 Because I mean, the Rotherham game, yes, he ended up being the one who was offside for
26:11 the late Jadon Anthony goal.
26:13 But it felt as though there wasn't a great deal else that he did off the bench, Bamford,
26:18 and that feels as though there's been a few occasions now where that has been the case.
26:24 That's a really interesting question.
26:27 Bamford's an interesting one because I can see why Farker brings him on.
26:32 I mean, it's not only to give Routier a break, but I think he'll say that Bamford's minutes
26:37 are merited, but also he does present a handful for centre-backs and defenders.
26:44 If he does get the ball, he can hold it up and he can take the sting out of the play
26:49 and he can keep Leeds high up the pitch, maybe take it to the corner.
26:54 He looks absolutely desperate for a goal to me, and I wonder if that is playing a part
26:59 in some of the finishing that we've seen.
27:01 Ice hockey players talk about when they're in a goal drought, they start to clutch the
27:05 stick a bit more tightly and they're tense.
27:10 They're thinking about the act of scoring so much that when it comes to trying to score,
27:15 they're in their own heads.
27:16 Brendan Aronson talked about it in that interview, didn't he, about how he was obsessing over
27:20 goals and assists so much that Jesse Marsh said, "You're not letting yourself play because
27:25 you're putting too much pressure on yourself."
27:27 I don't have an insight into Patrick Bamford's thinking, but as a striker…
27:33 You should maybe listen to his podcast then.
27:38 Also a good podcast, I'm sure he'll win many awards for that.
27:41 I don't think you'll have to share them.
27:45 In fact, do you think he and Joe Tomlinson will go up onto the stage together?
27:49 Hand in hand.
27:50 Yeah, I'd like to think they'd go up hand in hand and almost like the joint leaders
27:55 of a political party will stand on the stage, hands raised together.
28:02 I would imagine that as a striker, he is desperate, absolutely desperate to put the ball in the
28:06 back of the net so that he can contribute in the way that he wants to.
28:12 Because coming on and holding the ball up and helping keep play in the right area of
28:17 the pitch, that's all very well.
28:18 But what he actually wants to do is put the ball in the net and score goals.
28:22 And if he's not doing that, then the farker is faced with the decision, "Well, do I
28:31 give Joseph a chance to show what he can do?"
28:35 Because he's not at Bamford's level yet, but he could potentially get to the level
28:38 that Bamford was at.
28:40 So he's going to need opportunities to do that either out on loan for the rest of the
28:45 season or at Leeds.
28:48 I feel like they're light enough in the centre forward position that he probably needs to
28:51 stay for the rest of the season.
28:54 And if he's to stay for the rest of the season, then he probably needs a chance.
28:58 He needs an opportunity to get on the pitch.
29:02 So I guess it's all down to training really at the minute.
29:06 What Joseph does in training, he's going to have to muscle his way in there.
29:09 A bit like Perveda got his chance at Rotherham because he impressed the manager in training.
29:15 And Farker does seem to be a manager who will give you a chance if you do the business at
29:20 Thorp Arch.
29:21 I suppose as well with Bamford, it's not exclusively his fault.
29:28 He's coming on at a time typically when Routier, the most creative player in this team, and
29:33 Somerville, the second most creative player in this team, are being subbed off.
29:37 So he might not be getting as many chances as Joe Pirro or whoever else is starting in
29:44 his place.
29:45 So there is that as well.
29:47 But yeah, I mean, it's just something which interested me.
29:50 I was thinking about it the other day, about at what point does Farker then make that decision.
29:56 But I think you're right.
29:57 I think it is a case of whether he impresses at Thorp Arch, Joseph, and whether he can,
30:04 as you say, force his way in.
30:06 It kind of leads into a different debate altogether.
30:09 You're talking about loans there.
30:10 January is coming up.
30:12 It's less than a month until the window opens.
30:15 And something we haven't discussed on the pod is the fact that Michael Scuballa has
30:19 gone out to, or he's left the club.
30:22 He's gone to join Lincoln as their new head coach.
30:25 And there's definitely the potential.
30:27 I mean, it's an easy assumption to make, but there's definitely the potential that some
30:31 of Leeds' younger lads or peripheral players could drop down the division and go and play
30:35 for Lincoln.
30:36 Because especially the younger ones, looking at Lincoln's squad, I don't think there's
30:40 a single player over the age of 30.
30:42 It's a very, very young squad.
30:44 Lots of their starting 11 or so between the ages of 22 and 24.
30:48 You'd imagine that someone coming in from the Leeds periphery would acclimatize well.
30:54 It's not that far from Leeds.
30:58 You can see why it might be a potential destination for some of the younger lads.
31:05 Can you see that happening?
31:06 I mean, it'll probably not be more than one, but if there is one, who do you think is most
31:11 likely to end up there in January for a six-month loan stint?
31:15 That's a good question.
31:19 Jaco did it, didn't he, when he went to MK Dons and took Mad Max Dean with him, who's
31:24 hit a bit of a purple patch recently.
31:25 He's still at MK Dons.
31:28 If there was one that I could see, it would probably be Lewis Bait.
31:33 It'd be Lewis Bait or it would be Darko Jaby.
31:37 It'd be one of those two.
31:39 They really need to get out and play senior football.
31:44 If I was being taken on in some sort of consultancy role, if I was to become the Nick Hammond
31:50 of Lincolnshire, I would maybe caution against going too young or having too many young players
31:57 come in in January because I've seen it happen in the Football League and it doesn't always
32:02 work out when you go very young with all your January influx.
32:08 They could maybe do with an old head or two as well.
32:12 But I certainly think someone like Bait shouldn't be satisfied with under-21s football at this
32:20 stage.
32:21 He's already been out and did quite well at Oxford.
32:24 I wonder if Oxford might have a look again at him because they know what he can do.
32:30 He needs to play men's football.
32:32 Jaby needs to play men's football.
32:34 Jaby was so highly rated and Leeds were really excited about him.
32:38 He's paid ÂŁ5m for him as a teenager.
32:43 You really should start to see some return on that investment by this stage.
32:48 It has been a surprise to me and quite a few others I think that he hasn't kicked on for
32:53 whatever reason.
32:54 He hasn't been part of the plans this season.
32:57 When we did see him in pre-season, the little opportunities he got, he didn't look like
33:04 he was at the level.
33:05 He didn't look like he was banging on Farke's door and saying, "I'm as good as Archie
33:10 Gray.
33:11 I'm as good as Ethan Ampeter.
33:12 You can play me in the Championship in centre midfield."
33:15 He hasn't got near it.
33:18 So he's got to get out and do something about that at a senior level.
33:24 There's a few others as well, but you know better than me who really needs the game time
33:30 at a senior level.
33:32 But those are the two that stand out.
33:34 Yeah, I agree with you.
33:35 I think you're right.
33:36 The one that I'd maybe put in with them is Sean McGurk because I think if he's just turned
33:42 20, I'd love to see what he's capable of doing in men's football because this season particularly,
33:48 it looks as though he's kind of just gone up that level where players who shine at 21's
33:54 level do do over six months.
33:58 That's a nice little tongue twister.
34:01 He has been the standout player for the 21's.
34:06 So I'd like to see what his first taste of regular men's football would be or whether
34:12 he'd end up having a similar situation to what Sonny Perkins is going through at Oxford.
34:15 But yeah, I just thought it was something a little bit left field to discuss on this
34:20 week's pod considering that we haven't really covered Scoob's exit and with the January
34:27 window coming up.
34:28 So yeah, I mean, onto this weekend then, Middlesbrough, Michael Carrick, obviously Sam Greenwood won't
34:35 be able to play considering that he's on loan from Leeds, which is probably a bit of a blow
34:41 for Borough because he's been good for them.
34:45 What do we think the game's going to pan out like?
34:47 What have you made of Middlesbrough so far this season?
34:51 I would not claim to be an expert in what is going on at Middlesbrough, but I am expecting
34:59 them to embody the Sheffield Wednesday spirit when they come to Ellen Road.
35:05 I'm not expecting them to sit in two banks, two solid red banks and let the white wave
35:14 crash against them.
35:15 I think they'll come and try and play.
35:18 There's a danger with coming to Ellen Road and intending to play because you do leave
35:24 yourself at the risk of transition and if you cough up the ball, if Ethan Ampadu gets
35:29 the ball off you and you've committed bodies beyond the ball, then Leeds have players who
35:35 are absolutely devastating on the counter-attack.
35:37 I mean, Somerville and Routier must be horrible, horrible players.
35:40 It must be a terrible thing if you're a midfielder and you make a run beyond the ball and your
35:46 team loses it and you look up and you see that Somerville is heading towards the halfway
35:50 line and you've got three or four defenders back.
35:53 That must be a horrific experience, a harrowing sight.
35:59 I think of Adam Forshaw at Norwich when Somerville got sent away and Forshaw just knows I'm not
36:06 catching him.
36:07 I'm not getting there.
36:12 So yeah, I think if they do come to play they're going to have to be very, very, very good
36:17 in possession in Leeds' half of the pitch.
36:21 I'm actually quite looking forward to it.
36:23 I think we could actually have a good game.
36:24 I mean, there have been teams that have played at Ellen Road.
36:27 Plymouth actually played some nice stuff.
36:29 They didn't really come and park the bus.
36:33 You couldn't really say that Swansea did, but they just couldn't really get control
36:37 of the game.
36:38 They had little moments, but they didn't ever really have control.
36:45 Do you think this might be the first time that Leeds might be in danger of not having
36:51 more than 50% possession?
36:52 Potentially, yeah.
36:54 But I just think with how dominant Leeds are at home, I think there's probably a strong
36:58 chance that Leeds will be the team that enjoys most of the ball.
37:06 You look at their squad as well, and you look at the impact that Sam Greenwood's been able
37:09 to have since he's gone on loan there.
37:12 Not having him, I think, will affect how Borus set up.
37:16 But I mean, they do have a considerable amount of talent in there.
37:20 Isaiah Jones, the winger, he's been good in previous seasons.
37:24 Morgan Rodgers, he's started to come into his own a little bit recently in attack.
37:32 Even someone like Marcus Force, who I think he was about two or three million pounds from
37:37 Brentford, but again, on occasion, definitely knows where the back of the net is.
37:43 Some real Leeds links in this team as well.
37:45 Morley's own Johnny Howson.
37:47 Matt Crooks, I believe, is from Leeds.
37:50 Obviously the Greenwood one's obvious.
37:52 And Lewis O'Brien.
37:53 Lewis O'Brien, who of course played zero times for Leeds, but it feels like he was at Leeds
37:59 because it was talked about so much.
38:02 Yeah.
38:03 And I mean, Marcus Force, obviously, and Danny De Young, who was linked with Leeds, felt
38:10 like relentlessly when he was still at QPR and has ended up at Borus instead, the goalkeeper.
38:16 But yeah, sorry, go on.
38:17 I was just going to say that Marcus Force is, you know, he's a force to be reckoned
38:22 with.
38:23 And then you have...
38:24 We should call it a day.
38:27 You don't win awards for that, Graeme.
38:28 You do not win awards for that.
38:30 I've got complacent already.
38:33 Callum Kavanagh, in football manager terms, is a bit of a... has been a bit of a wonder
38:40 kid.
38:41 So I don't know how that translates to modern day actual reality.
38:45 Paddy McNair, very, very experienced.
38:48 Is he actually playing this season?
38:50 Yes, he is.
38:51 He's playing a lot this season.
38:55 So he'll be one that will try and get control of the game for them.
38:59 I'll tell you who the one I'm hopeful won't make it from a Leeds perspective, because
39:06 I think there's been some injury concerns for Carrick.
39:09 It's Hayden Hackney, who is England under-21 international.
39:13 And you look at any sort of statistics in the championship this season, and Hackney
39:17 is the business in midfield.
39:20 And I think he would cause Leeds problems.
39:23 So who... is it going to be Ampadu's job or Kamara's job to take him out?
39:28 I mean cover him, not take him out.
39:32 Like hit man.
39:34 I think that would be more Glenn Kamara's job.
39:37 Similar to what he did on Ricardo Pereira against Leicester.
39:41 I think that's probably more likely than Ampadu.
39:46 He is an attacking player, Hackney, but he can drop off a little bit deeper.
39:51 I think given that Leeds will have most of the ball, he'll probably be in that deeper
39:54 position more often.
39:57 But yeah, he's one who might not make it, might not pass a late fitness test.
40:01 So there's the potential there that if you've got Greenwood out of the team, if you've got
40:06 Hackney out of the team.
40:08 I mean, they lost Chubuakpom, didn't they, in the summer to Ajax.
40:12 And they had a few players who were on loan who had to leave, obviously.
40:19 So yeah, I mean, it's not the burrow of last season, but they are still a force to be reckoned
40:26 with.
40:27 I think you've got me saying it now.
40:30 I was actually going to use the actual term without the slapstick reference to Marcus
40:34 Force.
40:36 The role that Joel Pirro plays will probably be as important as it was at Leicester.
40:42 Not to the same degree, because Leeds are at home and will be attacking more of the
40:45 time, I would say, than they were at stages at Leicester.
40:49 But the amount of running that he does to drop back in and to cover midfielders when
40:57 Leeds go man to man, I think is a massively underrated part of his game.
41:04 I asked Farko about that on Wednesday night, about the distances that Pirro covers and
41:08 the athleticism he needs in that role and whether or not that's a natural thing.
41:12 Because he doesn't have the shape of the world's most natural runner.
41:17 He's not like a wiry Matthias Klick, who carried 0.5% body fat or whatever during the Bielsa
41:23 days.
41:24 He was a bit like a Whippet, wasn't he?
41:28 Still is.
41:29 Pirro's a bit stouder than that, but he is covering great distances.
41:34 And Farko said they had to work quite hard on his fitness when he first arrived to get
41:38 him in the shape to be able to do that, because it's not the role he played at Swansea.
41:43 There's a little bit more to it in terms of running than that.
41:47 But just keep an eye on him on Saturday and see.
41:51 One minute he'll be dropping in beyond halfway to try and get on the ball and help Leeds
41:56 progress it.
41:57 And the next he's on the edge of the area, trying to get on the end of a cutback to score.
42:04 I know that we're still getting people saying Pirro and Routier should swap.
42:09 They're not going to swap.
42:11 It's not going to happen.
42:12 At least not from a formation point of view, but they have occasionally switched positions
42:17 in the league.
42:18 Yeah, they do.
42:19 When one drops, the other one fills in.
42:21 Yeah, they do.
42:22 And Pirro makes those runs as well on the last shoulder, as well as Routier.
42:28 My mention of Football Manager there, Joe, has reminded me that I wanted to talk about
42:35 Football Manager briefly, because I've been playing the mobile version.
42:40 This podcast is available for sponsorship if any Football Manager commercial executives
42:43 are listening.
42:44 Yeah, there's a Leeds fan that works quite high up in Football Manager.
42:49 His job is basically to play it, I think, and test stuff.
42:53 Sounds terrible.
42:54 I've been playing the mobile version and I'm managing Fulham very successfully.
43:00 I thought I'd have a little scout around to see what the future holds, according to Football
43:06 Manager, for Leeds players.
43:08 Let me tell you, Joe, there are some eye-catching and eyebrow-raising headlines to come from
43:13 my, we'll call it research, my research into Football Manager, strictly for work.
43:23 Archie Gray, right, in my game is now 28.
43:26 So time has passed.
43:29 He's playing for Chelsea.
43:30 Oh no.
43:31 He's playing for Chelsea, which...
43:34 Why do you have to start with that one?
43:37 I wanted to get the bad news out of the way first.
43:41 You could have asked him what was the good news or the bad news.
43:43 He made a 23.79, very specific, million pound move to Stamford Bridge in 2024.
43:51 So he didn't hang around, did he?
43:53 Leeds could only hang on to him for a single season in the game and then he went to Chelsea.
44:00 But on the upside, he has got himself 45 international caps for Scotland.
44:06 So there's the bit that pleased me.
44:11 Pascal Stroik has got 67 caps for Belgium.
44:15 So he gave up the Dutch dream and settled for Belgium.
44:20 He's at Brentford.
44:23 Brendan Aronson is in the Championship, bless him, with Crystal Palace.
44:28 He didn't leave Leeds until 2032.
44:31 I'm not sure that I can see that panning out.
44:34 I know Brendan can, but I don't know if I can see that.
44:38 Ilan Melier is at Inter Milan.
44:42 He's still worth 16 mil at the age of 34.
44:46 He's got four French caps, but he has been about a bit.
44:49 He went to Villa first, then Lyon, and then to Inter, with whom he won the Champions League.
44:53 So well done.
44:54 Well done.
44:55 As first choice goalkeeper or was he first choice?
44:58 First choice.
44:59 Georginho Routier is with Luton Reserves.
45:07 He went to Manchester United in 2025 and won nothing.
45:13 So unfortunately, George, you got exactly what you deserved there, I think.
45:18 He's ended up at Luton, where it hasn't gone to plan.
45:22 Willy Nyanto is the only original Leeds player still at Leeds.
45:27 Isn't that one for the books?
45:31 The fella who wanted out has decided to be the fella who stays.
45:36 But actually, he had to come back because he spent three years with Birmingham and then
45:42 Leeds bought him back.
45:45 And Rasmus Christensen, I think he's retired now, but he got sent off four times in the
45:52 24/25 season.
45:54 That was about the height of it for Rasmus.
45:57 I'm amazed that you've been able to actually manage a team while you've been keeping tabs
46:00 on all these intricate details.
46:04 And the last thing I'll say is that...
46:06 I'm amazed that you've been able to do your job in real life.
46:11 You've been playing this game for 11 years in the game, if Archie Greer is 28.
46:18 Maybe 10 years in the game.
46:22 What I would say is that the game goes by very quickly, Joe.
46:24 It's not that I've spent an extensive amount of hours on it.
46:27 And I did have a week off that you have to factor in.
46:29 It should be said that I had a week off during this time, just in case the bosses are listening.
46:35 And the final thing I'll say is that Leeds got promoted in the 2023 season, thanks in
46:39 chief to Joel Pirro's 31 championship goals and Dan James' 10 assists.
46:45 They're still in the Premier League now, so when they go up, they stay up.
46:50 And Jordi Alba is of course their manager now.
46:52 Naturally, yeah.
46:53 I can see that.
46:54 That's a big 49ers hire, isn't it?
46:58 So you take whatever you want from all of that.
47:02 But I think promotion was the big takeaway for me, that even the game knows that Leeds
47:06 should really go up this season.
47:09 Right, prediction time.
47:11 I nearly said promotion time.
47:13 Save that for six months' time.
47:15 Prediction time for this weekend against Middlesbrough.
47:17 What do you anticipate?
47:20 A 2-1 victory.
47:21 Yeah, I'm going to go with 1-0 to Leeds.
47:25 I think it's going to be a very tight game, but I think you have to look at the form book
47:29 and say that Leeds are the form team in this division and you have to be winning your home
47:33 games.
47:34 Simple as that.
47:35 When are we going to see Archie Gray try and crack one in from 30 yards, by the way?
47:39 I feel like he's holding back.
47:41 Well, he might need to hold back a little bit more because Chelsea are lurking for ÂŁ23.79
47:46 million, by the sounds of it.
47:49 So if he doesn't want to crack them in, that's fine.
47:52 That's totally fine, Archie.
47:53 Play within yourself.
47:55 Play very much within yourself.
47:56 [MUSIC PLAYING]