"Anay Walay Waqt Mein Pata Lagega Kay...", Lawyer Imtiyaz Sheikh's Reaction
"Anay Walay Waqt Mein Pata Lagega Kay...", Lawyer Imtiyaz Sheikh's Reaction
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00:00 I'll come to the studio as well. I'll come back to you, sir.
00:04 Pakistan's Chief Justice's office has won today. And today, the parliament of Pakistan has won.
00:27 Pakistan's Chief Justice's office has won because, as my friends have said, the power under Article 191 was not with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in the constitution.
00:42 Article 176 of the constitution says that your Supreme Court will be the Chief Justice and Judges of the Supreme Court and the determination of that will be determined by the parliament.
00:55 Now, when these rules were made in 1980, the judges made their Chief Justice the Master of Roasters.
01:05 They gave him the power of Article 184-3, the power of the composition of benches, the power of the urgent hearing, and told him to lead the rules of Article 180.
01:18 Now, with time, another problem came that it is written in the constitution that the parliament can make a constitution and law under Article 191.
01:29 But since the parliament did not exercise that thing, and for the first time in the history of Pakistan, the legislation came under Article 191.
01:39 And when that legislation came, a big question mark came that is there intrusion in the judiciary of Pakistan? Is the issue of separation of power being compromised?
01:49 But along with that, the important things that have come into this country for the past 15-20 years were our Bar Associations, Bar Councils.
01:57 I know, this demand was there for a long time. Please visit them.
02:00 Now, when the Supreme Court did not even do its full court after 2019, and the criticism that came in your country last year in the Supreme Court of Pakistan and the unprecedented one in the parliament,
02:13 there was a vacuum in it. Now, when that vacuum came, when the parliament legislated it, and all these things, on which no one can say, the justice sector, that Article 184.3 should be regulated?
02:27 Should an appeal be made on it?
02:29 I am Parasur Sir, Ghatakalami Ma'am. The problem is that, first of all, how did it happen?
02:34 There have been so many hearings, I don't want to risk of repeating, I don't want to repeat, but the problem is here, sir, that the PDM government brought this act.
02:40 It was the act of the Minister of Muslim League Noon. There was a shikh that the appeal would be opened retrospectively, that Mr. Mian could also benefit from it.
02:47 So, the intentions are very clear.
02:49 No, no, it is not like that.
02:50 The problem is that you are saying that ideally, this Supreme Court…
02:53 No, no, I will tell you. Under Article 184, whatever constitutional petitions come, you can file a review under Article 188, and this is a remedy provided in your constitution.
03:06 If you have availed that remedy in Article 188, then its retrospectivity was not on all those things.
03:14 Their retrospectivity was on those things that if you decided under Article 184, and your review has not been decided yet, then they said, in the law, that you should appeal within 30 days.
03:26 This was an apprehension, which the Supreme Court of Pakistan has clarified in its judgment.
03:31 So, to say that this person was a specific legislation, this is also not the case.
03:36 The second thing, which is the biggest credit, is that when we talk about independence of judiciary, then do we talk about the Supreme Court or the Office of the Chief Justice?
03:46 Here, the discussion was on the Office of the Chief Justice, that if the Chief Justice is independent, then the Supreme Court will be compromised.
03:54 To which the present Chief Justice said that this is not right, I do not want to concentrate power.
04:00 And if I do not want to do that, then I want to share it.
04:04 So, this means that the legislation that has come, does not have any malafide, it has good intention, and our lawyers also have demand.
04:12 And the main important thing is this.
04:13 Now, what, one minute sir, one minute.
04:14 If in Article 191, if the Supreme Court has decided in full court, and before this meeting, they have full court, that we should listen in full court.
04:24 And if the majority of the Supreme Court has decided that this legislation is also right, and the Chief Justice should not be under any unbridled discretion.
04:32 So, now the matter should be moved forward, instead of saying that in Article 191, it is possible or not, or the Chief Justice or the Supreme Court should be compromised.
04:42 No, the decision is in the public domain, sir.
04:43 The question and criticism on the decision is that where is the far-fetched evidence?
04:46 This decision was not affecting the common man of Pakistan, it was of the Supreme Court of Pakistan, and the point was that which fundamental rights have been violated.
04:54 If the Supreme Court of Pakistan decides that this is not the case, then the matter is right.
04:59 Yes, Imtiaz sir.
05:00 See, this is not the time to celebrate, that which office has won, which office is losing.
05:10 The whole nation has seen that the proceedings of the Supreme Court have reached what stage.
05:16 The whole nation has seen for four days that how the judiciary and judges do not have unanimity among themselves.
05:25 How the proceedings have been run, which arguments have been heard and which arguments have not been allowed to speak.
05:33 The whole world has seen this.
05:35 You keep saying that it is a very good decision, by the grace of God, by the grace of God, this will not solve the problem.
05:42 We have to give life to Allah.
05:44 At least speak the truth.
05:45 And what is the truth, Imtiaz sir?
05:48 And the truth is that the proceedings that have been held and the judgment that has come, this will not bring judicial stability.
05:59 The intention of the judges can be good. Many judges of the judiciary really want the situation to improve in the judiciary.
06:07 But allowing the Parliament to control the internal working of the Supreme Court will tell the future that this will not be beneficial.
06:20 And who surrendered their rights and why and how, all these things will be clear in the future.
06:29 If any Pakistani is sitting in any part of the world, ask him, after seeing this proceeding, has his belief and confidence been exalted in the court?
06:40 You will get his answer, no.
06:43 Has he seen that there have been some very good arguments, he will say that yes, there have been some arguments from the respondents,
06:53 the petitioners had a very difficult time in arguing the case.
06:56 These incidents will tell you the future.
06:59 Senator Ali Zafar, do you agree that judicial stability has been achieved today?
07:05 As far as I would like to talk about two things, and I think they are very important things.
07:15 We just talked about the law that was made, the act that was made, it was not made to help a specific person or people.
07:26 In my opinion, this law was made on a specific agenda.
07:33 You remember that there were two attempts to make this law.
07:38 Article 184.3, which we are talking about, under which the Supreme Court has been exercising powers,
07:47 and wrong was used, you saw the case of Dekodik, the case of Pakistan Steel Mill, the economy suffered a lot from it.
07:55 There are many such cases.
07:57 People used to say that an appeal should be made, people used to say that this power should be regulated.
08:05 It was only written in the act that you can review.
08:09 Review means that there is a limited ground.
08:13 - I'm not gonna get a specific-- - I'm not gonna get a specific--