This month's lively edition of The Scotsman’s Property Podcast, made in partnership with DJ Alexander, focuses on all aspects of investment homes and the lettings market.
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00:00 Hello and welcome to this month's Scotsman Property Podcast, brought to you in partnership
00:06 with letting specialist DJ Alexander. I'm Kirsty McLuckie, the Scotsman's Property Editor,
00:13 and in this edition, we're going to be taking a look at some big changes happening in investment
00:18 homes and the lettings market. Whether that's the rise in the number of holiday flats in
00:22 our cities, the challenges facing buy to let landlords, the competition in finding a first
00:28 home from home for students, and the extreme measures that some people are going to secure
00:34 a room in a shared property. But first, we'll look at the situation of short-term accommodation
00:41 in Edinburgh, which every August is packed to the gunwales with performers and crew,
00:47 staff, media folk, audience members and tourists all here for the city's festivals. But the
00:54 number of holiday lets can be a controversial subject and changes in regulation are afoot.
01:01 Here to explain the latest developments and how changing the rules could have wide reaching
01:07 effects across the Scottish property market is Chris Gray, Director of Rentair in Scotland.
01:14 Good morning, Chris. How are you?
01:16 Morning, Kirsty. Very well, thanks. Thanks for having me on.
01:19 First of all, can you tell a little bit about your business and what the festival means
01:24 to you?
01:25 Of course. Yeah, so Rentair is a really pretty small company that's grown slowly just through
01:34 word of mouth. We've been going for around about five years. And yeah, the festival's
01:42 huge to us. During the summer, that's where everything really kicks off. We like to think
01:51 that we provide good quality accommodation to families from all over that want to come
02:00 and enjoy the festival. So it's a very lively time for us.
02:05 And so what are the key points of the legislation that the council is hoping to bring in?
02:10 Yeah, so historically, short term lets and self catering have been very unregulated.
02:19 There's been next to nothing. The council and the government are wanting to bring in
02:25 licensing for for every self catering unit, whether it's a secondary let as in a home
02:35 that's rented out full time or a room in somebody's house as well. Everyone's going to be rented
02:43 out if it's a caravan, if it's a yurt or anything like that, it's all going to be licensed.
02:52 Initially it looks like it'll be for a year and then it'll be extended for three years
02:55 for those who who get it.
02:58 That's across Scotland, isn't it? That's in every local authority, as I understand it.
03:04 Yes. But Edinburgh Council has a particular particular bits on top of that.
03:10 Yes. So the council have ruled the whole of Edinburgh as a rent control zone.
03:19 So it means that they look at everyone a lot more stringently from what we're seeing.
03:31 And we for anything that's rented out full time, you're having to go through planning
03:38 as well before going in for a license, which is obviously an added cost and stress.
03:44 Yeah. Have you any idea how much how much it does cost to go through that?
03:50 It's sort of change of use, almost planning permission, isn't it?
03:53 That's right. Yeah. It's a change of class, change of use. So you have to it very much
03:58 depends on the size of the property.
04:02 If it's over 100 square meters, it's a lot more.
04:05 And then if it's over 200 square meters, it almost doubles again.
04:10 But it goes into thousands. And the same with the licensing.
04:13 So the more that it sleeps or the bigger it is, the much more expensive it is as well.
04:19 And there has been a legal challenge to this, hasn't there, from your side of the industry to the to the council.
04:27 And I believe that was in June. Can you tell us what happened there?
04:30 Yes. So judicial review, there was a team of six who did from our side, at least amazing work.
04:40 And they they they raised concerns about a number of a number of things that are being implemented.
04:49 And in reality, the two things that have changed is that there's a that the council wouldn't be they have to consider every application,
05:01 even if it's a tenement block where before we were seeing that they were taking money for applications for a change of use,
05:10 but they would still decline every application that was for every tenement.
05:16 Yeah. Whether it's the shared it's the shared entrance, it was almost like a blanket ban on any property with a shared entrance.
05:24 Exactly. They would still accept the application money.
05:27 And take the money for it. And they've got a no refund sort of policy.
05:31 So there's obviously a conversation to be had.
05:36 What happens there? But yes, everything was just declined.
05:39 So that's been turned over, which is huge.
05:43 And the second part of it was that every property had to have carpets or floor coverings.
05:49 And is that to do with noise reduction for neighbours?
05:53 Exactly. Yeah. Which I understand. But it was for basement flats and it was for ground floor flats with nothing below them.
06:02 So it was it was seen it was very much sort of from the inside.
06:06 It was a sludge, or it still is really a sledgehammer to crack and that kind of thing.
06:10 And as it stands, as you understand it, what do landlords have to do if they want to carry on being a short term letter in Edinburgh?
06:19 What do they have to do? And by when?
06:22 Yeah. So if they want to continue past October the 1st, they have to, depending on the circumstances,
06:29 they have to apply for either planning permission or or an allowance to a certificate of lawfulness to to allow them to operate past October the 1st.
06:46 So they need to apply for that first and then have their licence application as well before October the 1st to allow them to continue operating
06:56 while the council considers their application.
07:00 I take it it's not a it's not a speedy process.
07:04 No, no, definitely not. The council, I think they've given themselves a timescale of nine months to to come back and give a ruling or an answer.
07:16 I think I'll be surprised if they can, who knows if they can stick to that.
07:22 Well, from what we're seeing, it's very, very slow progress.
07:26 And presumably that timescale with next year's festival in mind is it's quite tight.
07:33 Yes. And it's huge. It'll have a huge impact because nobody has the certainty where they can they can open up their calendars in advance.
07:42 So come even November, October, November this year, never mind next year,
07:49 there's going to be a huge shortage and there there's there's not a chance there's going to be anywhere near enough accommodation for people to to book.
07:59 Even if they're organised or booking it last minute from our side, the festival will be nowhere near what it has been.
08:11 Because of the lack of accommodation.
08:13 Now, I understand the licensing has really brought short term letting in line with long term letting.
08:22 The council's response appears to be to the perhaps complaints and problems caused by short term letting and the saturation in some areas of sort of Airbnb type flats.
08:36 Does your industry have an answer or a solution to so-called I'm thinking about noise pollution or or,
08:43 you know, as you say, people in a close living in a close where there are other people on holiday?
08:49 Yeah, sure. So there is there's I understand there is, you know, the likes of the old town.
08:56 Everyone knows that there's there's a lot of short term lets absolutely.
09:01 Behind each one of those is there's there's a person that really, really cares about what they're doing.
09:09 And what I would say is that although it's frustrating for for some of the other residents bags coming and going,
09:19 I think that there's a lot of other things that that could have been done that would would make a lot better impact the likes of displaying owners contact details.
09:30 So there's an easier way of communicating. There could be noise where devices,
09:37 all sorts of things that that that it would have been better, in my opinion, to to implement before all these extras.
09:50 You know, we're all for safety and having absolutely, you know, evacuation plans, all of that stuff.
10:00 But from from going to absolutely nothing to beyond HMO sort of standards for regulations, it's really it's really tough for operators.
10:11 Never mind agents, operators individually to get their heads around everything by this certain date.
10:18 Yeah, I was going to ask what are your landlords?
10:23 How are they responding? Is there panic in the in the industry?
10:26 Yeah, there is. There's to be honest, the panic comes from my side because most clients and I honestly think a lot of people that that that do self catering,
10:40 a lot of them really don't know still what needs to be done.
10:45 So I sort of send my my regular email update what needs to be done every couple of weeks.
10:51 And that's when I see the panic is, you know, that date's coming nearer and nearer.
10:57 And we do still have stuff that we need to do.
10:59 And people, they do panic because they realise how how urgent it is.
11:04 And it all has to be done before October the 1st.
11:06 Do you think that you are going to get short term landlords switching over to long term or even selling up altogether?
11:16 Yeah, so good question. There's there's a lot of so the company, the whole business came about because it was the implementation of the PRT.
11:26 A lot of a lot of clients just did not.
11:29 It didn't sit well with them that they not that they didn't have the control, but just the fact that the the.
11:35 In the in the private rental sector, you mean? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
11:38 The rules governing those. Yeah. So so I do both.
11:41 But a lot of clients just chose to to go short term because they didn't agree with a lot of the the terms that were in the private residential tenancy.
11:51 Everyone's all for tenants rights, but it just seemed to go a little bit too far.
11:54 So a lot of clients said, well, let's try short term. And now, because the properties are looked after, they're cleaned every every week at least.
12:05 And it all goes for at least the operators that run them.
12:09 Well, it all goes very smoothly and everyone's because everyone's caring about their reviews, for example.
12:15 They really do care what's what's going on in the properties.
12:19 And we want to we don't feel like there should be a need to speak to the neighbours, but we want to work with them.
12:27 We're totally open and wanting to change things for the better.
12:31 So you feel that as a as an industry, you could have found a compromise with the council?
12:36 Yeah. And from my side, I don't see owners generally going back to long term.
12:41 I see them selling and I'm seeing it already.
12:44 It's happened. Dozens have happened already.
12:48 And then because they've not been able to sell because of everything that's going on and it's becoming a saturated market, they come back to me and say, what else can I do?
12:58 So it's there's a bit of uncertainty there.
13:01 Chris, thanks so much for talking to us today. And we'll watch.
13:05 It's a developing situation, isn't it? So we'll we'll watch that with interest.
13:10 Yeah, very much so. October will be an interesting month. Thank you so much.
13:15 You're listening to the Scotsman Property Podcast brought to you in partnership with DJ Alexander.
13:21 Now we're going to move the focus of the programme to longer term rentals.
13:25 And my next guest is Kevin Fraser, director of property management at DJ Alexander.
13:31 Welcome, Kevin. We've just been hearing about proposed changes to short term letting regulations.
13:38 How do you think that that might be affecting the longer term rentals?
13:44 Hi Kirsty, firstly, thanks for having me on the show.
13:49 I think that really with such growth in the short term rental market over the last 10 years or so,
13:55 we've seen a number of landlords exit the long term rental market and moving over to the short term lets instead.
14:01 I believe this is really primarily down to a couple of factors.
14:04 Firstly, a lack of legislation around safety compliance, landlord registration, etc.
14:10 resulting in kind of anyone could just list their property on the short term market and away they go.
14:17 With less requirement of safety legislation and compliance.
14:20 This is clearly appealing to many as there's been no major significant financial outlay to operate in the sector.
14:28 The second thing I would say is really the headline rents that can be achieved in a short term market.
14:34 This is inevitably going to be appealing for many landlords, particularly around the busiest times for the Edinburgh Festival,
14:42 the Christmas holiday period where landlords can achieve more than a month's rent in a week.
14:49 So the numbers do speak for themselves there.
14:53 I think that there's a big challenge for the short term rental landlords now that the associated costs with planning permission to change of use.
15:03 I think it's coming in at around £1,500.
15:05 This is going to be a significant outlay for one and one which they may not get to see a return on their investment
15:12 while there's such uncertainty around the proposed legislation at the present time.
15:18 So do you think that there are there'll be a significant number of people who will be moving back to long term letting from holiday lets if this goes ahead?
15:26 Yes, I mean, we've certainly seen an upturn over the last month or so of inquiries from landlords operating in the short term market,
15:34 looking to make the switch over to the long term market.
15:37 You know, I think that there's a judicial review ongoing at present, and I think many are waiting to see what the outcome is there.
15:45 Many are looking to get ahead of the game and say, well, I may not be able to get my planning permission changed.
15:50 I may not get the change of use and then I'll have to jump through various hoops to operate in this sector.
15:55 Maybe a little bit more consistency in the longer term market will will suit some.
16:00 Which is which is good news for your business, I presume.
16:03 Yes, certainly. I think there's always changes in the long term rental market,
16:09 and we have been subject to lots of different change over the last 10, 15 years, which we embrace.
16:15 The objective is to make the sector as attractive for investment and to provide suitable housing for tenants across Scotland.
16:24 So I think that with the current shortage of stock, which is quite well documented,
16:30 that any increase in stock for people looking to work and contribute toward the economy is going to be a positive one.
16:40 And I think certainly an increase in stock on the rental market long term, we will see some benefits there.
16:48 I was just talking of legislation that there's also obviously you alluded to that legislation surrounding longer term lets,
16:57 but there's more coming, isn't there? There's more in the pipeline for landlords.
17:01 Yes, there is. I mean, I think that the kind of the next kind of key date really for landlords and adiaries is the end of September,
17:08 where there will be a kind of review on the current cost of living legislation is due to be lifted at that point.
17:17 And this legislation was introduced to help with the cost of living crisis and effectively capped rental increases and banned evictions across Scotland.
17:29 I think that's been also quite well documented that the impact of this legislation is that it's kind of failed to achieve what it set out to do.
17:38 And while I'm an eternal optimist, I do believe that this legislation will be extended for a further six months till March 2024.
17:46 But there may be some small amendments to that act.
17:49 There is also obviously a judicial review into the cost of living act as well at present.
17:55 And, you know, I think we're certainly hopeful in the sector there will be some kind of positive outcome on the back of that.
18:01 I think that the next kind of big thing that's upcoming in our sector will kind of be in March 2024.
18:09 There are some changes to the current repairing standard, which landlords will have to ensure that their properties meet these new requirements.
18:20 I think there's just a couple of few call out points in relation to that legislation, you know, such as water pipes must be free of lead.
18:28 So landlords will need to ensure that pipes into their property meet that requirement.
18:35 Electrical installations also must be protected by an RCD unit.
18:40 So, again, there may be an element of upgrading for some landlords there to comply with that legislation.
18:46 And then just a final one. Some people may be surprised to hear this, but they will be requesting that all properties have a fixed heating system.
18:55 Now, there are very few of them that I'm aware of, certainly, that are rented out without heating system these days.
19:01 But it is also just something which landlords will need to consider.
19:06 I think there's just another one other bit of legislation which has kind of been ongoing and has gone backwards and forwards,
19:11 certainly since Covid, with changes to the EPC, the Energy Performance Certificates.
19:17 There's obviously a big push on the green energy efficiency across from government.
19:23 And, you know, certainly government are keen to ensure that the energy efficiency standards are met by 2033.
19:31 So there's going to be a consultation in and around new legislation that will be introduced for EPCs over the course of this winter, 2023, 2024.
19:44 And I think once we go through that consultation, we'll then have a better understanding in terms of what the requirements are going to be.
19:51 But ultimately, make your property more energy efficient and make it less.
19:58 Yeah, make it more attractive, certainly in that market. And those legislations is really kind of what we're expecting.
20:04 It's a it's a long list of costs for landlords.
20:08 And as you mentioned, at a time where if you have an existing tenant, you can't really put the rent up to cover those costs.
20:16 And also, obviously, we haven't even talked about mortgage interest rates.
20:21 Our investors who have a buy to let mortgage, I understand that quite a lot of those are maybe interest only mortgages.
20:31 So compared to residential mortgages, they will have gone up substantially more from from a low base rate of two or three years ago.
20:41 Are you are you finding that landlords are really struggling with those those costs?
20:45 Yeah, I mean, I think there's there's no doubt that buy to let investors are feeling the impact of the interest rate increases.
20:53 I think along with the cost of living, many of our landlords have one or two properties.
20:59 You know, they're they don't have large, large portfolios.
21:03 They're individuals. So they feel the pinch like every everyone else.
21:07 I do think, though, that there's also been a very long period of sustained growth in our sector over the last 10 to 15 years.
21:15 And, you know, I think that every area must expect there to be a levelling off after a period of sustained growth.
21:22 It doesn't feel like that long ago that I recall landlords wouldn't always achieve enough rent each month to pay for their mortgage and would willingly top this up because their view was it was a long term investment.
21:35 And the capital appreciation over that period of time would make up for the short term mortgage repayment shortfall that they had.
21:42 But, you know, I think that it's inevitably had had an impact.
21:46 There's been a very buoyant sales market, particularly in Edinburgh and Glasgow over the course of the last 12 months.
21:54 And with that buoyant market, you know, it's an opportunity for landlords to potentially cash in on their investment.
22:00 So there have been some landlords exiting the market and in the range of that.
22:04 But, you know, I think there's certainly an element of caution amongst investors into the sector, as I've said, with the Cost of Living Act.
22:15 Additional dwelling tax supplement increased fairly recently.
22:19 However, as I said earlier, we are seeing an increase in short term rental landlords coming over to the sector.
22:27 And with there being an ongoing shortage of property, you know, there is always a demand for rental stock in the main cities across Scotland.
22:36 So for any investor, there are good returns still to be had there, not just in short term, but over the long period as well.
22:45 Yeah, I was going to I was going to ask you about that shortage of flats.
22:48 I've got three kids all in their 20s, all living in Glasgow, and they seem to move every other week.
22:57 But anyway, the difficulties that they found in finding places and the sort of anecdotal evidence of queues around the block for viewings,
23:08 you know, parents certainly in terms of student letting and young people,
23:14 parents having to have, you know, stand as guarantor, have six months rent up front to even be within a chance of getting a flat for a young person.
23:25 And then, of course, you have all the problems for people who don't have the backup of their families to do it.
23:30 Is it is it something that's ongoing? Do you see that easing?
23:34 Yeah, I mean, it is something that's ongoing. You know, I came across a situation not too long ago where a student tried to rent a garage in Glasgow so they could live in that.
23:44 As they were finding it so difficult to come up with a property to rent longer term.
23:49 I think that we certainly see around Glasgow, Edinburgh, St Andrews, where we have branches that the demand is substantial.
24:00 You know, at times we'll see 100 inquiries for one listing.
24:06 We had one in the West End of Glasgow quite recently where we had over 200 individuals inquiring to rent that property.
24:12 Now, you know, that's just a testament to how difficult it is and how challenging it can be.
24:19 I think that it's the best advice really is to kind of get ahead of the curve and be on top of any new listing that comes available as quickly as you can.
24:32 We certainly for our student accommodation, we start at the end of quarter one of each year to understand what our tenants intentions are.
24:40 Will they stay? Will they be moving on? What will they be doing?
24:43 And then from quarter two onwards, start to sort of drip feed these properties onto the market.
24:48 So certainly an early plan is really required for anyone looking to try and get on the student accommodation.
24:59 And if we look at St Andrews, you know, there's been major challenges up there with the lack of HMO licences being granted since 2019.
25:09 I think that it's quite common for students there to live in Dundee or Lukers or Cooper and then travel into St Andrews just because, you know, it struggles to keep up with the demand.
25:21 I read a report this morning actually on the St Andrews market and obviously landlords can put the rent up at the end of a tenancy, can't they?
25:29 So you're getting situations where, you know, two flats next to each other, one is going for 500 quid and one is going for a thousand purely because the tenants left and a new tenancy has been put in place.
25:44 But also the idea, as you say, that rich students live in St Andrews and poorer or just moderately well-off students tend to have to travel because of that.
25:55 And is that it's an HMO planning problem? Is that what you're saying?
25:59 Yeah, I mean, I think that's certainly what we see with our office in St Andrews. A lot of the properties we manage up there are student properties.
26:05 So, you know, there's certainly more students than HMO properties available in St Andrews to rent.
26:11 And I think as part of the impact, which again can be well documented around having multiple HMO properties within your stairwell or on your street,
26:22 the council there were keen to ensure that it was limited as the population of the students increased.
26:28 You know, I think they wanted to try and make sure there was a cap in terms of how many house and multiple occupancy property licensors were issued.
26:35 But I believe it's the reviewing that at this point.
26:38 But it's a good point that you make about the rent and one HMO being available far substantially lower price than another.
26:48 That kind of really is happening just across Scotland, you know, not just in student accommodation, because a lot of landlords are feeling concerned about when can I next put my rent up?
26:59 You know, with the rent cap being at 3%, with their mortgage rates, as we've said, you know, increasing substantially.
27:06 You know, they are looking to try and ensure that they can recover that.
27:09 So when a tenant vacates, you are permitted to adjust the rent and with the demand far outstripping the supply at present,
27:18 you know, rents are increasing at one of the highest rates that we've seen certainly here in the last five plus years.
27:25 And that is a byproduct of the legislation.
27:28 And I think that's what I said earlier, you know, yeah, there's a consequence and this is one of those consequences.
27:35 So, you know, I think we find more people are sitting tight, staying where they are.
27:40 Students, for example, if they secure a property in year one or year two, they may well stay throughout the whole duration of their university stay.
27:49 Because they are called a jail.
27:50 Yeah, exactly.
27:51 Whereas before, you know, there'd be a little bit more inclined, oh, well, actually, there's another one round the corner with an extra bedroom or a bigger living room or whatever it is, we'll maybe move there.
27:59 Now, what you find is you look at what's on the market and people are paying far more rent for the stock coming up and available now than a year ago.
28:08 Yeah. And so is there a feeling from landlords?
28:10 I know that there is an effective eviction ban, but actually what you want is if you have a long term tenant who's been there on a reasonable rent,
28:19 you're probably looking to persuade them to end their tenancy.
28:23 Is that is that?
28:25 I mean, listen, I think that is something I mean, there's no way that you can really persuade a tenant to attend their tenancy.
28:32 But a lot of landlords, I'm sure if they were given the opportunity, would look at doing that.
28:37 You know, I think that, you know, if your investment no longer becomes viable, then you have to look at other ways of how you can cover the cost.
28:45 You know, and many landlords have their own mortgage to pay, plus their buy to let mortgage.
28:50 So if the rent that they achieve is insufficient, then it does cause problems on the day to day kind of living.
28:57 But it really is a case of having to wait and see.
29:00 And, you know, should your tenant change over then? Yes.
29:04 There's scope to increase the rent, but it almost just kind of fuels the situation and it just continues.
29:11 I was going to ask you about that, talking about HMOs and about a phenomena that I have anecdotally heard of, possibly not too far from my own family.
29:20 And that is obviously you need an HMO licence if you are letting two more than three or more people who are unrelated.
29:30 However, if two of those people happen to be in a relationship, then that counts as sort of a family and therefore that you don't need an HMO licence.
29:41 And so I know that certainly kind of young people and students in, I heard about it in Glasgow,
29:48 are just pretending, they're just sort of coupling up and pretending to be in relationships.
29:52 You know, four of them will go into a four bedroom property, but say that they are two couples and therefore it doesn't need an HMO licence.
30:02 Is that something that you've come across? Yeah, it is.
30:05 I mean, I guess people will try and chance their arm. It can be quite common for the larger properties.
30:11 You know, many people don't know about the HMO legislation, so they'll see a four bedroom listed.
30:16 They'll inquire about it. They'll think, great, this is ideal. This will suit us fine.
30:20 And it really is important for us as agents to advise them, make sure that they're aware of the legislation and question really what their intent is.
30:32 But it can be a very difficult situation where, you know, who am I or who are our property managers to sort of ask whether,
30:41 you know, two people living in a flat together are in a relationship or not.
30:45 You know, I think that it is a very, very difficult thing to police.
30:50 But, you know, ultimately for my client and our clients here of our business,
30:55 we really would be saying if you've got four people looking to rent a four bed house,
31:00 you don't have a license and they're not a family, you would really begin to kind of question what the intent of the applicants were.
31:07 And, you know, look to see, thankfully in the current market,
31:11 there are often two or three other parties interested in renting the property.
31:16 So, you know, you can quite easily then go to the family and eradicate any element of risk.
31:21 But, you know, it's just about that education and you can understand it.
31:25 If they need somewhere to stay, then, you know, they'll chance their arm, but really probing the right questions from our side,
31:30 because ultimately for a landlord, you know, the penalty is substantial.
31:35 They could be fined up to 50,000 pounds if they're found to have multiple tenants living in a property without the HMO license.
31:42 So it's very murky as well, because I mean, I was thinking about it and I was thinking,
31:48 what happened if, you know, two couples moved into a four bedroom property and then one couple split up
31:54 and then followed by the other couple? I mean, do they then have to move out?
31:57 And as you say, how do you police it? How do you check that these people are in a relationship?
32:02 That's the thing. Any sort of suspicions, you know, if we did rent to someone, it's a case of those periodic inspections going in,
32:08 you know, how many beds are being used? Is there a sign of someone else living there?
32:11 But it's so difficult to prove and police it. It really is.
32:17 But yeah, you've just got to try and ask the right questions and try and keep on top of it.
32:22 For people maybe thinking that it might be a good idea to try or their parents, just in terms of safety,
32:30 you know, HMO regulations are there for a reason and, you know, it's safety, isn't it?
32:37 That's exactly it. It really is. It's safety. It's been brought in for a reason, you know, and it's there to protect tenants.
32:45 So, you know, really the call would be trying to avoid working around the legislation and adhere to the rules that are in place.
32:55 You know, it's a breach of legislation. It's against the law. You know, don't do it.
33:01 It's for your own safety. That really is the setup. But it's very, very difficult, as you say, to police, monitor and manage it.
33:09 Yeah, it's something that sort of crossed my mind about it, actually, is that it's an absolute gift for a screenwriter of a rom-com.
33:21 You know, you get a couple pretending, a couple of mates pretending that they're in a relationship to get around the HMO legislation.
33:29 And, you know, with hilarious results, they fall in love. So, yeah, that's a gift for screenwriters out there.
33:36 They can that's the next kind of green card type type rom-com for them.
33:40 The festival next year.
33:42 Absolutely. Thanks so much, Kevin, for explaining that to all of us.
33:47 On that note, we've come to the end of the Scotsman Property podcast brought to you in partnership with DJ Alexander.
33:54 I'd like to thank my guests, Chris Gray and Kevin Fraser.
33:59 And if you've enjoyed this edition, look out for next month when we'll be talking about mortgages and how to get the best deal in these times of uncertainty.
34:07 (upbeat music)
34:10 [BLANK_AUDIO]