Indian costume designer Sonu Mishra was nominated for two consecutive Primetime Emmys for her work in the hugely celebrated National Geographic series Genius Einstein and Genius Picasso respectively in 2017 and 2018.
Sonu has since been riding high, costume designing for major feature film and television projects around the world. Ever since this Mumbai native graduated from Sophia College with a degree in fashion design and moved to New York as a 19-year-old in 1989 to work in the wardrobe department at the Roundabout Theatre Company on Broadway and at Odds Costume Rentals, she has not looked back.
Sonu is routinely offered prestigious costume design assignments. Having worked as a wardrobe supervisor for Martin Scorsese’s ‘The Gangs of New York’ early on, she designed costumes for Apple TV’s Shining Girls, AMC’s fantasy miniseries, “NOS4A2,” and several episodes of NBC’s “Crossing Lines” and FOX’s “Prison Break” apart from several movies.
Sonu Mishra spoke to Mayank Chhaya reports from Rome, where she is now based, about fashion and fabrics and things in between.
Sonu has since been riding high, costume designing for major feature film and television projects around the world. Ever since this Mumbai native graduated from Sophia College with a degree in fashion design and moved to New York as a 19-year-old in 1989 to work in the wardrobe department at the Roundabout Theatre Company on Broadway and at Odds Costume Rentals, she has not looked back.
Sonu is routinely offered prestigious costume design assignments. Having worked as a wardrobe supervisor for Martin Scorsese’s ‘The Gangs of New York’ early on, she designed costumes for Apple TV’s Shining Girls, AMC’s fantasy miniseries, “NOS4A2,” and several episodes of NBC’s “Crossing Lines” and FOX’s “Prison Break” apart from several movies.
Sonu Mishra spoke to Mayank Chhaya reports from Rome, where she is now based, about fashion and fabrics and things in between.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 (dramatic music)
00:02 (dramatic music)
00:05 (dramatic music)
00:08 (dramatic music)
00:11 - Albert.
00:36 - Albert.
00:37 (shouting)
00:39 - Einstein!
00:40 - Albert, I am scared.
00:42 - It may not be safe for you to remain in Berlin.
00:45 (dramatic music)
00:47 - We're not going anywhere else.
00:50 - And I will not sit by and wait
00:52 for fascists to kill my husband.
00:54 - Dr. Einstein, you have a history of controversy,
00:57 which calls into question your loyalties.
00:59 - My loyalties?
01:00 The past, present, and future.
01:04 (dramatic music)
01:07 - Is Patton illusion?
01:10 - People say I am a genius,
01:16 that it all came easily to me.
01:18 The truth is, the only way to be a true artist
01:22 is to work day and night.
01:24 Use yourself in it completely.
01:27 - Those were scenes from the hugely celebrated
01:30 National Geographic series, Genius Einstein,
01:34 and Genius Picasso, respectively.
01:36 My guest played a crucial role
01:38 in lending both the authentic sartorial edge
01:42 that won her two consecutive Primetime Emmy nominations
01:46 in 2017 and 2018.
01:50 Sonu Mishra has since been riding high,
01:54 costume designing for major feature film
01:57 and television projects around the world.
01:59 Ever since this Mumbai native graduated
02:03 from Sophia College with a degree in fashion design
02:07 and moved to New York as a 19-year-old in 1989
02:10 to work in the wardrobe department
02:13 at the Roundabout Theatre Company on Broadway
02:16 and at Odd's Costume Rentals, she has not looked back.
02:20 Now living in Rome, Sonu has routinely offered
02:24 prestigious costume design assignments.
02:26 Having worked as a wardrobe supervisor
02:29 for Martin Scorsese's The Gangs of New York early on,
02:33 she has designed costumes for Apple TV's Shining Girls,
02:37 AMC's fantasy miniseries Nosferatu,
02:41 and several episodes of NBC's Crossing Lines,
02:44 as well as Fox's Prison Break, apart from several movies.
02:48 Sonu Mishra spoke to my HR report from Rome
02:52 about fashion and fabrics and things in between.
02:56 - After we last interacted,
03:01 two Emmy nominations for two remarkable projects
03:05 and two extraordinary individuals, Einstein and Picasso,
03:09 how has your life changed since then?
03:11 - I feel like after we did the two geniuses,
03:16 I worked on the two geniuses,
03:17 I felt like I was more open creatively
03:21 because the first genius had never done anything
03:24 like that before in my life,
03:25 like that big and that extent and, you know,
03:28 shooting it back to back and going back and forth in time.
03:32 So it kind of expanded the creative mind.
03:36 Also, we had to be very, besides being creative,
03:38 one has to, we had to also be very organized
03:42 because we were shooting at different times,
03:44 we were shooting different periods.
03:46 So in some while after that,
03:47 then I felt like there was a big expansion
03:50 in my capacity of doing my job.
03:52 Like I wasn't afraid of anything.
03:54 I wasn't afraid before that,
03:55 but I got more excited after that
03:57 because I feel like when you work with really amazing talent
04:01 and it becomes like a teamwork, you know,
04:03 hair, makeup, wardrobe, director of photography,
04:06 art director, showrunner.
04:08 So it became this massive endeavor
04:10 where we were all working hand in hand.
04:13 So it was very exciting.
04:14 After that, it just became even more exciting
04:17 to do the work.
04:18 - Tell me a bit about how you landed that
04:21 Ron Howard, Brian Gaiser project.
04:24 I mean, like you said, it's a big, big project.
04:28 - You know, I was working on Prison Break
04:30 in Vancouver in 2016.
04:32 And somehow, I mean, I think it was a really great experience
04:36 over there.
04:37 And I think they were saying good things about me to Fox
04:39 because it was produced by Fox.
04:41 And so my name, like I think,
04:43 and then they were coming to Europe.
04:46 And so I got interviewed by a showrunner, Ken Biller,
04:49 who, you know, so he, I had an interview on Skype
04:53 and they went well and they hired me.
04:57 So it was literally, I think it was a bit lucky
05:00 because I was at the right place at the right time
05:02 and the right people saw some talent in me
05:05 and that's how I got it.
05:08 - You know, as I pointed out in my email,
05:11 you have dressed up two absolutely diverse geniuses.
05:16 One of whom is not particularly known
05:19 for fashion style at all.
05:21 In fact, it was often slovenly, namely Albert Einstein.
05:24 - Yes.
05:25 - And then you had Pablo Picasso.
05:27 Although these are the screen of that,
05:29 I'm fascinated by what it meant to have dressed up
05:34 these two extraordinary characters.
05:37 Talk a bit about it.
05:39 - Okay, so I think basically on any film or TV show,
05:43 the first thing is to find out who the person is
05:47 and to go behind the psychology of the person
05:50 and then see who our actor is
05:52 and somehow see where that connection happens
05:55 because each actor is different.
05:57 And Jeffrey played Einstein in such,
06:01 he's very much a method actor.
06:04 They both felt the clothing on their bodies.
06:07 Like when I would do my fittings, you could see that,
06:09 they needed to see how they felt in their clothes,
06:11 how they move in them,
06:13 because you really have to find that character
06:16 in the clothing.
06:18 So it's very much like,
06:19 and of course both of these amazing artists and scientists,
06:24 there was a lot of, luckily, a lot of documentation
06:28 and archive photographs and especially with Picasso,
06:30 there were many videos.
06:32 So just trying to also,
06:35 that is one thing to find out who the real person was,
06:39 looking at our actor,
06:40 figuring out where that connection will happen
06:43 so it becomes very smooth and natural.
06:46 And at the same time,
06:47 it was important to see the scripts, read the scripts.
06:50 We had 10 of them each season had 10 scripts
06:54 and see the timeline.
06:55 So even though each episode we're going back and forth,
06:59 what I did was I started like when they were born
07:03 and when they passed away
07:04 and then we marked all the milestones in their lives.
07:08 And so there's a lot of like,
07:10 even the blueprint that happens.
07:12 So the approach towards Jeffrey was also very specific.
07:17 So there were, I had all my mood boards,
07:19 I had all the timelines and then finding the clothes
07:23 in this right eras, the right making them,
07:27 finding the textures.
07:28 Like for example, when he starts out, he's younger,
07:30 so he's more fitted, more, the clothes are more fitted.
07:35 And we had the younger Einstein who was,
07:37 Johnny Flynn was amazing.
07:39 And then as he grew older,
07:41 I ended up like making like padded bellies
07:44 because we have to also transform the actor
07:46 through silhouettes visually.
07:48 So that was Jeffrey and it was very, very meticulous,
07:52 very, very, like we needed to get exactly
07:55 how he felt psychologically in those moments,
07:59 and how life was in the historical moment itself.
08:03 While Picasso was very different because he was,
08:06 the very self-confident and almost like a matador
08:10 and is very bigger than life.
08:13 And Antonio is, he's very precise
08:16 and very much into acting, but he's fun and he is,
08:21 and also I think the show was a lot more joyous
08:25 and artistic.
08:26 So Antonio was, for example, in the morning,
08:31 Jeffrey, he knew all his lines, he'd be very, very prepared.
08:34 While Antonio could also be dancing and listening to music.
08:37 So it was a different approach.
08:38 So I'm sure if Antonio had to play a strong,
08:42 a character who needed to be introverted,
08:45 I'm sure the energy would have been different
08:47 in the morning on set, I'm not, can't promise.
08:50 But so there were the two different energies,
08:52 of who we were trying to portray
08:54 and the actors who embodied those energies.
08:57 - You know, a thing that strikes me,
08:59 Einstein's were a very interior life,
09:03 very inward focused, very almost reflexive.
09:07 In contrast, you had this flamboyant matador in Picasso
09:12 who was completely externalized, almost in your face,
09:16 unapologetic about who he was.
09:19 I don't want to overanalyze it,
09:21 but do you think that kind of personality contrast
09:25 would have played any role
09:27 in the way they dressed themselves?
09:29 - You know what, I'm not sure,
09:32 but what I can tell you is that my first meeting,
09:34 my first fitting with Antonio,
09:37 if I've understood your question,
09:39 costumes played a role in them.
09:42 Finding their character.
09:44 So my first fitting with Antonio was in September in Paris.
09:49 It was very hot and I had all these really big,
09:51 heavy woollen clothes and this choice of fabrics
09:54 and the way we actually cut the suits and all
09:57 was very specific to make Antonio look shorter
09:59 because Picasso was not a very tall man
10:03 and Antonio is taller than him.
10:04 So we had to bring everything down
10:06 and you know, like just ground him more
10:08 and make him a look, he's quite lean
10:10 and he's very, you know, he's very, very,
10:13 he's in good shape, he looks great.
10:15 So we had to make him feel stronger
10:17 and more like a matador.
10:18 So I wasn't sure, you know, this is,
10:20 here comes Antonio Banderas,
10:21 we're doing our first fitting,
10:23 we're in Paris, we're all sweating
10:24 and I'm like, oh my God,
10:25 what if he won't take to wool
10:27 and all the fabrics I've chosen,
10:28 it would get cooler later.
10:30 But he came in, he was lovely
10:33 and then we did the fitting and he tried on his clothes
10:36 and he immediately, he stood up straight,
10:38 he put his hands in the pocket
10:39 and he looked around and I'll never forget that moment.
10:41 I said, I think I've said it a few times,
10:43 he just looked in and he looked at me
10:44 and he says, you know, he said, you got it.
10:46 I think I feel Picasso in my clothing.
10:48 And both the actors, no, it was amazing.
10:51 And Jeffrey, the same thing, you know,
10:53 we were trying those coats on
10:55 where he would walk in the middle of the street
10:57 when they were like,
10:58 the kids were handing out the Nazi flyers
11:00 and you know, and Ron Howard said to me,
11:02 he wanted something that would have a little flow,
11:05 you know, like when he walked, you could feel the flow.
11:07 And same thing, we tried on different coats
11:09 and then the one that worked, you know,
11:11 I saw Jeffrey just change
11:12 and then when, you know, everyone just agreed that was it.
11:15 So I think an actor needs to feel their clothes
11:19 on their bodies because if they don't feel right in it,
11:22 it actually can hamper their performance, I believe.
11:25 - No, absolutely.
11:26 I'm glad you mentioned it
11:27 because I was going to ask you about this.
11:29 There are some actors who in fact say that
11:32 unless they wear those particular clothes,
11:36 they find it difficult to get into the character
11:38 they are playing.
11:39 And in these two cases,
11:41 although they are both great actors,
11:44 Einstein and Picasso,
11:45 they are such larger than life personalities.
11:49 I'm sure your costumes would have helped them
11:51 sort of an entry point into their lives.
11:54 - Definitely costumes and hair and makeup
11:57 because I always say hair, makeup, wardrobe and photography,
12:00 you know, besides obviously the direction
12:02 and you know, the actor's talent,
12:05 but I feel like hair, makeup, wardrobe and photography
12:09 because even our DP is amazing.
12:12 So, you know, the way the lighting,
12:14 the way they light the camera and all, it changes.
12:17 So it's such a collaboration what we do,
12:19 but you're absolutely right.
12:20 I think wardrobe and hair and makeup,
12:23 the actor has to embody, you know,
12:26 that character through your works.
12:27 That's why I love it, Mayank.
12:30 It's so beautiful to, you know,
12:32 just be in the room when you're trying to figure out
12:35 what this character is going to be like
12:37 and how it'll play out.
12:38 And then to see the response from the actor,
12:40 then from the director and, you know, the crew members,
12:43 it's kind of cool.
12:44 (laughs)
12:45 - Yeah, interestingly, this is off a tangent,
12:48 for someone like you, who's dressing people,
12:52 actors' guards are necessarily down when you do that.
12:57 - Yes.
12:58 - So you get to see sides of people
12:59 that a lot of people don't get to see.
13:02 - Yes.
13:02 - In a sense, they have stripped themselves, right?
13:05 - Truly.
13:05 - Metaphorically.
13:07 - Truly.
13:07 - I don't know if you have any experience
13:11 that you might want to share with either Jeffrey Rush
13:13 or Antonio Banda,
13:14 because they're both very different people.
13:16 - You know, so both of them, I mean,
13:18 so Jeffrey, I just love Jeffrey
13:22 because he was always so precise
13:24 and always so, he knew all his lines.
13:27 He was, he knew all the scenes,
13:29 he knew all the pages, he knew everything.
13:32 It was mind-boggling because someone like him,
13:35 who was able to remember 10 scripts
13:37 and all his scenes, it was mind-boggling.
13:40 I've never seen anything like that.
13:42 But he was also very courteous,
13:44 always respectful and also funny,
13:46 and also amazing, but of course,
13:47 he had to be in character,
13:49 and they were quite long scenes,
13:50 and all these dialogues and pretty intense scenes.
13:53 But I always was always quite impressed
13:58 by the way he was ready for any scene.
14:01 He knew all the lines, he was ready for that.
14:04 While Antonio also, he knew what he had to do,
14:08 he knew all the scenes, but he could be playful.
14:10 One morning I went to the set,
14:13 it was like 6 a.m. and we were supposed to go to set
14:17 in an hour, and I walked in to just see
14:20 what the tie was, or some detail,
14:23 and he had his music on, so we ended up like,
14:25 we did a little Spanish dance in the morning.
14:27 So it was really, I'm like, okay,
14:29 this could be a nice way to start my day.
14:32 And we had many, many different fittings,
14:35 and each fitting, because as episodes would progress,
14:38 we would have the actors come back
14:39 to fit for the different.
14:41 It was always interesting because besides the work,
14:44 there's always an exchange of stories and histories,
14:49 and both Geoffrey Rush and Antonio Banderas,
14:53 they're amazing human beings,
14:55 just great, great talents,
14:57 but also really great people to be around.
14:59 Like very respectful, also, they know who their roles are,
15:03 they know what they're doing,
15:04 but at the same time, they are great professionals
15:07 and amazing talents.
15:08 So every day was incredible,
15:10 we didn't know what could happen.
15:13 - Just last bit about this particular theme,
15:15 since you're talking about a period,
15:18 say the ending 19th century and beginning
15:22 and middle 20th century,
15:24 I'm interested to know how you zeroed in
15:26 on the choice of fabrics.
15:29 - Okay, so when it comes to fabrics,
15:32 I always try to use what would be authentic.
15:35 So I really love natural fabrics,
15:37 and I feel like natural fabrics,
15:39 I don't like any blends,
15:41 especially if it's a historical piece.
15:44 You can tell on camera that there is some synthetic fabric
15:49 in the blends, and the way it moves on camera,
15:52 it's completely different.
15:53 So in general, I don't like to use,
15:57 unless it's like a 1970s and polyesters,
15:59 like we had some scenes,
16:00 so that's when it makes sense to have it.
16:03 But in general, I'd like to use really good fabrics,
16:06 also out of respect for my work and for the actor,
16:10 because all the actors have to be in their clothes
16:13 for the duration of hours for months.
16:17 So even when they touch something and it feels good,
16:20 that automatically helps one step forward.
16:23 And everything translates on screen.
16:26 Like I feel like whatever choices we make
16:28 will translate on screen.
16:30 So I do, like over there, it was all like,
16:32 we looked for all kinds of natural fabrics,
16:35 with wools and silks and cottons and linens.
16:38 So depending on what atmosphere we were trying to create,
16:41 we would go in, and I had shoppers
16:43 who would go out and buy textiles.
16:45 - Your recent work includes works like
16:52 Apple TV's "Shining Girls" or AMC's "NOS4A2"
16:57 and "Prison Break" "Crossing Lines."
16:59 Now, these are very divergent moves.
17:02 I'm interested to know how you would work on,
17:05 say, something like "NOS4A2" compared to "Prison Break."
17:09 Now, "Prison Break," having wardrobe is a bit,
17:12 it's hard to believe, but I'm sure there is
17:14 pretty intense designing involved there.
17:17 - There is, actually, when it's simple,
17:19 you really have to rack your brains,
17:21 because in "Prison Break," for example,
17:23 Michael has only one set of costumes
17:26 for almost nine hours, whatever, like most of the series,
17:29 because he runs away from a prison.
17:31 So basically there, and again, we have to,
17:33 "Prison Break," we actually was very complicated.
17:36 You will not believe it, 'cause it was,
17:38 we had Yemen in the season five,
17:42 and we were shooting in Vancouver,
17:44 and we were going to shoot in Morocco.
17:45 And I went to Vancouver, and I actually,
17:48 you know, we tried to figure out
17:49 all the contemporary clothing.
17:51 In the meanwhile, trying to figure out Yemen,
17:53 I felt that the only way we could make that authentic
17:57 and believable was make all the clothes in Morocco.
17:59 So I went to my producer, Steve Beers,
18:01 and I said to him, I said, "You know,
18:02 "it's going to cost us less to go to Morocco,
18:05 "because we had a base, we're going to shoot there."
18:07 I said, "I can send someone there,
18:08 "and we can make the clothes there,
18:09 "the Yemeni clothing,
18:12 "because we need to make it look authentic."
18:14 So we had a bit of a discussion about it.
18:16 We figured, we, you know, came up with numbers and whatnot.
18:19 So I actually, my assistant, Martina,
18:21 she went to Morocco, we set up a team,
18:24 and we ended up making all the garments there.
18:27 And they looked so great,
18:28 because we had to shoot Yemen in Vancouver.
18:31 And day one, when we were shooting,
18:33 it felt real, it felt authentic, because it was,
18:37 and then we also had video tutorials,
18:39 because all the dresses were Canadian.
18:40 They had never, you know, done headscarves or any of that.
18:44 So we actually, from Morocco,
18:46 the team would have sent us video tutorials,
18:48 and everyone actually did the tutorial in Vancouver,
18:52 because we wanted it to look real.
18:54 And in the meanwhile, for the men's costume,
18:56 because it's like all stunt-driven,
18:58 we need to have 20 of each costume,
19:01 because there was dirt, there was mud,
19:03 there was this, there was that.
19:04 So we had all the different stages.
19:06 So there was a lot of planning,
19:08 and then also aesthetically trying to figure out
19:11 what colors we want to use,
19:12 because it was all, you know, dusty.
19:14 And in fact, if you see any of the photographs,
19:17 we were used on mud tones,
19:18 and with some splashes of color.
19:20 So it was really intense and kind of fun.
19:24 And we had to do back and forth between Vancouver, Morocco,
19:28 then we came back to Vancouver,
19:30 so the clothes were being sent back and forth.
19:33 So that was more like, aesthetically,
19:35 we needed to figure out what it would look like,
19:37 and then reorganizing it off, all of it.
19:40 While Nosferatu, N-O-S-4-A-2,
19:43 that's written by Stephen King's son, Joe Hill.
19:48 And it's amazing, because it's a bit of a, you know,
19:51 it's a bit of a fantasy sci-fi.
19:53 And it's from these graphic novels.
19:55 So, you know, it was really cool,
19:58 because we had to create these,
19:59 I had to create these costumes for Zach Quinto,
20:02 who's amazing, who played Manx,
20:04 and then the rest of the world around them.
20:06 And then we had this Christmasland, it was called,
20:09 where it's Christmas forever.
20:11 And we came up, like, and there was no timeline,
20:14 so I ended up getting research from 1901,
20:18 and all the, you know, really spooky clothing.
20:21 And we created some amazing costumes in-house.
20:24 I had a very big department.
20:26 So we were making masks, and we were making clothing,
20:29 and we were coming up with these amazing costumes.
20:31 And our makeup hair designer is,
20:36 he did Johnny Depp's, you know, most of his styling.
20:39 And he actually did all these amazing teeth.
20:41 So we had to, like, for the little kids,
20:44 because they're supposed to be young vampires,
20:46 little vampires, who Manx really steals their bodies
20:48 and brings them to this Christmasland.
20:51 And costume-wise, it was so much fun,
20:53 because we created everything in-house.
20:55 Like, we made all of, you know, Charlie Manx's clothing.
20:58 We made the Millie Manx's clothing.
21:00 We made all the Christmasland children.
21:02 So even there, the set designer and I
21:05 worked very closely in colors, how do we do it?
21:08 So it was kind of great fun.
21:10 And Carrie Scoglin, who was the director,
21:11 and Jamie O'Brien, they are amazing women.
21:13 So a lot of brainstorming, lots of trying to figure out,
21:17 you know, what we need and creating.
21:20 - Nosferatu being what it is,
21:22 were there specific references to the way the clothing was,
21:26 or it was left entirely to your imagination?
21:30 - For Charlie Manx's clothing,
21:31 we were inspired by the graphic novel.
21:33 But then what I did was I ended up, like,
21:35 taking it and modifying it.
21:36 We actually ended up, like, building the costume.
21:39 We took authentic references
21:41 of the chauffeur's uniform from 1934.
21:44 But what I did was, with my tailor, head tailor,
21:47 we ended up, like, making mock-ups on the mannequin,
21:50 and, you know, changing the shape.
21:52 So it kind of reminds you of the past,
21:54 but at the same time, everything was modified
21:56 to create its own lines, let's say.
22:00 - Yeah.
22:02 The fact that you come from India,
22:04 and the fact that India is the hub of fabrics,
22:08 do you think one has a natural feel for fabrics
22:13 by the simple fact that you come from India?
22:15 - 100%. Fabrics and colors.
22:18 And my father was a film producer in India back in the day.
22:21 He only did, like, two or three movies, and then--
22:24 - I didn't know that. Interesting.
22:25 - Yeah, yeah.
22:26 And he did "Dharti Kai Pookar" in 1969.
22:28 - Oh, I see. Lovely songs.
22:31 - Yeah, yes.
22:33 And so I kind of, like, remember being a kid and going--
22:37 and he was Dharmendra's best friend,
22:40 and they did a-- you know, he was his talent manager also.
22:43 Then he had, like, later on, there were some complications,
22:46 but anyway, that's life.
22:47 But so I grew up, you know, and I think seeing my father
22:51 and Dharmendra travel around the world,
22:54 back in the day, they would go to Malta and wherever
22:56 and do movies.
22:58 I would look at them, I'm like, "Oh my God,
23:00 I think I can live my life like that."
23:02 (laughs)
23:03 So yes, for sure.
23:05 You know, he used to have a storage room, big.
23:09 It was called the go-down.
23:10 You used to go down, and you're not supposed to go down,
23:12 but I used to sneak in with my friends in the afternoons,
23:15 and we would go and look at all the, you know,
23:17 reels and clothes.
23:18 So for sure, I'm very, very much influenced by Bollywood
23:23 and my childhood.
23:26 - What's your preferred fabric?
23:28 Left to you, is there something that you would use repeatedly
23:32 or that's not how it works?
23:34 - Do you know what?
23:35 I mean, that's a very good question.
23:37 I really, I think it depends on what intention,
23:40 who we're dressing, what costume we're trying to create,
23:44 but my favorite fabrics are for sure,
23:46 for myself and for film, I love good cottons,
23:49 organic cottons, because there's something about that cotton
23:53 and of course, you're doing, if you're doing,
23:55 it's winter and cashmere wools,
23:57 because cashmere, again, if you know,
23:58 you can have that option.
24:01 It's so soft on the body, and I love silks.
24:06 So these are my three favorites, you know, and linen.
24:08 Actually, when you, I can go on like flash.
24:11 - I'm glad you are not mentioning polyester.
24:13 (both laughing)
24:15 In the '70s, when it grew up, because that used to be,
24:18 and it became a sort of a pretty popular fabric.
24:23 It was horrible, and I grew up in Ahmedabad.
24:26 In Ahmedabad's heat, to wear polyester was torture,
24:31 but people did, and the shirts would actually stand
24:35 when you took them on.
24:36 (both laughing)
24:38 I'm glad you're not mentioning polyester,
24:40 but apparently, I think, I'm digressing once again.
24:42 I think part of the reason why it became popular
24:45 was the cost, cost thing.
24:47 They were very cheap, and lots of people could afford it
24:50 without washing them much.
24:51 So I suppose that was it. - Truly.
24:54 - I, you know, as I wrote in that email,
24:57 fabrics really haven't undergone a major change
25:01 for close to now, 100,000 years since they were first used.
25:04 I mean, there is some change, but by and large,
25:06 they remain the same.
25:09 - Yes.
25:10 - Do you think there is any possibility that,
25:13 as we move towards a more modern life,
25:17 fabrics would change fundamentally?
25:20 - Do you know, that's a really good question.
25:22 In fact, I was so appreciative of you asking that question
25:25 because actually, one of the things we have
25:28 to be more mindful of, and I think everyone is doing,
25:30 is sustainability, you know?
25:32 Because I think that way, and I did,
25:34 I know there's one thing that I've never used so far,
25:37 it's the 3D fabric, and you know,
25:40 so that I've never used.
25:42 There was a chance a little while ago for a project
25:44 where it could have been used, but you know,
25:45 it didn't, there were a bit of hiccups that happened with it.
25:49 But I feel like the biggest thing that comes to me
25:52 is like, you know, I think the way we could change it
25:56 is to be more mindful about what kind of fabrics
25:58 we are making, and to really pay attention to like,
26:01 they know whether it's sustainable,
26:03 whether it's locally bought, you know?
26:05 And then for something more advanced,
26:09 I think something that's different from what we already have,
26:12 I'm really curious about this whole 3D method.
26:14 I don't know much about it, but I'm curious about it,
26:17 you know?
26:18 - Yeah, looking at your work,
26:21 it's obvious, it's pretty clear that you have
26:24 almost steadily chosen not to work in India.
26:28 Is that a conscious?
26:30 Sorry, go ahead.
26:31 - No, no, go ahead.
26:32 - No, is it a fair thing to ask,
26:35 or it's just one of those things that has happened?
26:38 - That just happened, I think, Mayank,
26:41 because I feel like if I could,
26:42 I mean, I would be happy to work in India,
26:44 it's just that the way life takes you, you know?
26:46 It might happen, you never know, you know?
26:49 So...
26:51 - Recently, there was a release of Karan Johar's film,
26:55 like the "Rocky and Rani Ki Whatever Prem Gahani,"
26:58 something, the reason I'm mentioning it is because,
27:02 personally, I've never watched a single Karan Johar movie,
27:05 and I'm not saying it as a,
27:06 I'm just saying it as a statement of fact,
27:08 but I read that these costumes in that,
27:12 where they've really taken the life of their own.
27:15 I don't know if you have seen the works there,
27:19 because a lot has happened apparently in that.
27:21 - Oh, yeah, I should write it down,
27:23 I'll watch it, "Karan Johar," okay?
27:24 - Yeah, I think "Rocky and Rani Ki Some Prem Gahani."
27:28 - Okay, "Rocky and Rani," I'll write it down,
27:30 I'd love to see it.
27:31 - It's one of those resplendent, glorious, in these movies.
27:35 - Yeah.
27:37 - The costumes are really, I mean, I saw it,
27:39 they are stunning.
27:41 - Wow.
27:41 - Maybe you should check them out.
27:43 - For sure.
27:44 - Yeah, yeah.
27:45 - I'd love to work in India.
27:46 If the opportunity arises and something works out,
27:49 it'd be fun, it'd be great fun to do it.
27:52 - I'm surprised people haven't reached out to you,
27:54 because you have an international profile,
27:57 one would assume that, given the OTT and other works.
28:01 How come-
28:02 - I don't know.
28:04 I don't know, it hasn't happened so far, nothing.
28:08 I don't know, maybe because it's just like
28:09 the way life takes you in a different direction.
28:12 I think it's just like my flow has been towards the West.
28:15 Who knows, I do go back to India,
28:18 but it's mostly to see my family and, you know,
28:20 my family lives in Bombay, so I go back there.
28:24 Who knows, anything is possible after you've mentioned it,
28:28 who knows?
28:29 - Indeed, indeed.
28:30 Who, according to you, are the best-clothed horses,
28:33 both among male and female actors?
28:36 - See, that was another great question.
28:37 And I, first, for female, I always think of Cate Blanchett,
28:41 because she has this amazing way of wearing her clothes,
28:45 which, you know, they're extremely stylish,
28:47 but she makes them look easy
28:48 and completely at ease in her clothes, you know?
28:51 She can be stylish, but approachable,
28:53 which is, I think, the main thing to be.
28:55 You don't wanna be so distanced from the person, you know,
28:58 when you become so aloof.
28:59 In fact, she wears her clothes,
29:01 and she wears these beautiful clothes,
29:02 and, you know, she's very approachable, it seems, you know?
29:06 And for men, I think, of course,
29:08 Ryan Gosling is known for his style,
29:10 and, you know, I know from "The Young Ones," it's...
29:13 What's his name?
29:18 Sorry, I'm so sorry, I just had a flash.
29:19 Then, of course, I love Jamie Foxx and Danny Glover,
29:23 I was trying to think of.
29:24 - Interesting, interesting.
29:25 You know, again, I bring you back to Mumbai.
29:29 - Yeah.
29:30 - Perhaps the best-clothed horse in Mumbai,
29:32 of all time, to me, is Jackie Shaw.
29:35 - Oh, absolutely!
29:36 I still love his movies.
29:38 I love Jackie Shaw.
29:39 - He can carry off...
29:41 It's astonishing what he can carry off.
29:43 I mean, in fact, I would go to the extent saying
29:45 that I don't know of too many male stars internationally
29:49 who could drop the clothes the way he does.
29:52 - Yes.
29:53 - Even that little boat cap that Maharashtrians wear.
29:56 - Yes.
29:56 - When Jackie Shaw wears it, it becomes...
29:58 I mean, it has swag.
30:01 - 100%.
30:02 - Yeah, yeah.
30:03 - And you know who I still love
30:05 was back in the day in the '70s,
30:06 because all my movies, I've remained in the '70s,
30:09 Parveen Babi was so beautiful.
30:11 - Oh, she was, yeah, yeah.
30:12 - And the other one, you know, with the Z...
30:17 - Even Zeenat Aman.
30:18 - Zeenat Aman.
30:19 - Yeah.
30:19 - Zeenat Aman was really amazing,
30:22 but Parveen Babi, Zeenat Aman,
30:24 they were so international back in the day.
30:27 Even Rekha in her own way, she's gorgeous.
30:30 But for me, Parveen Babi and Zeenat Aman
30:32 were just goddesses, you know?
30:36 - Yeah, yeah.
30:37 - What is your idea of an impeccably dressed man?
30:41 - Do you know what I thought about that too?
30:44 You asked some really amazing questions.
30:47 I feel like when we embody who we are
30:51 and we find ways to represent
30:54 who our souls need to be at that moment,
30:57 because we change through the years.
31:00 And when we are dressed in a way that we...
31:03 I really believe when we feel good in our clothes,
31:06 we look good, you know?
31:08 And that's my thing.
31:09 So if I see a man and he looks amazing in a suit
31:12 and he's got that...
31:13 Even suits can be completely hipster
31:16 or they can be like very Milan
31:18 or they can be, you know, this...
31:19 Or you have like someone in jeans and T-shirt
31:21 but has that ease.
31:22 Or a woman who's just wearing a mini skirt
31:24 or a long skirt or a dress.
31:26 So whatever actually makes us feel good in our bodies,
31:31 in our skin, and, you know, it represents that moment.
31:35 Like it's obviously one dresses differently
31:37 for a red carpet to go to, you know, have coffee.
31:39 So I think there are so many elements.
31:41 So I feel like it's a bit of a mixture of everything.
31:45 - Okay.
31:46 Tell me a bit about new projects that you're working on now.
31:50 Something that you are really looking forward to.
31:53 - So there was...
31:54 I was supposed to be in Canada working on "The Abandons"
31:57 but things for Netflix,
31:58 but with the strike, everything is on hold
32:01 and I'm not sure what will happen next.
32:03 I have a couple of offers after the strike.
32:07 So I just want to wait and see and let you know.
32:10 - Yeah, sure.
32:10 In terms of the way you work,
32:14 do you work as an independent company?
32:16 Do you work as an independent professional?
32:19 How does one contract you?
32:21 - It's like, you know, project by project.
32:26 So I'm with an agency in LA for with APA
32:29 and it's a talent agency.
32:31 So usually, you know, we do our meetings
32:33 and then we come up with our deal, you know,
32:36 so it's for the project-based basically.
32:38 - I see.
32:39 You have a very impressive proven record
32:43 of having worked in so many projects.
32:46 I would like you to talk a bit about
32:48 how young women in India who...
32:51 I'm saying specifically young women in India
32:53 who may be interested in pursuing,
32:55 not necessarily abroad, but even within the country,
32:59 costume designing as a career option.
33:02 What kind of tips would you offer them?
33:05 - I think we have to...
33:06 Now that's again a great question.
33:07 I feel like it's very important to start studying.
33:10 You know, besides studying, get work on sets,
33:15 even if it means you're a PA or whatever.
33:17 What it get, I think...
33:20 So there are two aspects to costume design.
33:23 The one is the creative one
33:24 and then the second one is how you
33:27 actually have to get the job done.
33:29 So there are two...
33:30 I'm just giving you a few ideas and just a general vision.
33:36 There are people who are creative,
33:38 who like to work in the tailoring room,
33:39 who like to make costumes,
33:41 who are part of like the creative process,
33:43 who like to go shopping and all of that.
33:44 So that's one side of the costume world.
33:47 The second side is where it's more organized,
33:49 where you have to be on set,
33:50 you have to, you know, be precise,
33:52 you have to go beyond time,
33:54 you're the set person
33:57 and you're in charge of showing up every day,
33:59 having the right costume,
34:00 being in front of the camera,
34:02 making sure that the clothes are exactly
34:05 the way the designer wants it to be.
34:08 And then if, you know, so there are two aspects to it.
34:11 So first we need to figure out where we...
34:16 Because whenever someone comes to work with me,
34:18 I'll always ask them, where do you feel better?
34:20 Working behind the scenes and creating costume,
34:23 which is, you know, it's all chaotic and crazy
34:26 and then set is where it's very precise,
34:27 you have to show up, you have to be there.
34:29 So there are two kinds of mindsets
34:30 that one has to figure out where you belong.
34:33 And then of course, before you answer that question,
34:35 one has to have experience.
34:36 So go and work with designers,
34:38 go and work on sets,
34:40 go and work in other teams as well,
34:42 just to, you know, just to see how it works.
34:44 Because the main thing is we don't realize
34:47 how long the hours are,
34:49 how stressful work can get,
34:51 that how, you know, how much resilience we need.
34:56 So one has to slowly and steadily find their tribe.
35:00 So find designers or, you know,
35:02 if they want to be designers,
35:04 if someone wants to work with a designer,
35:06 work with different designers,
35:08 see what style fits you,
35:10 because some designers are very organized
35:12 and very creative and other designers,
35:14 you know, go with the flow.
35:16 So it depends what kind of person you are.
35:17 So you have to make connections.
35:19 Sorry, it's a bit of a long...
35:20 - No, no, no, I understand.
35:22 Imagine me as an 18 year old girl in Yavatmal, for instance,
35:27 with a small town,
35:29 my perceptions are small,
35:32 and yet I have international ambition
35:34 as a designer, costume designer.
35:36 Give me two, three tips,
35:38 which are simple tips that a Yavatmal girl,
35:41 18 years old, would understand.
35:43 - Okay, in that case, get a job on a set.
35:45 And take courses, study.
35:51 So I say, and then, and watch movies.
35:55 - Okay, interesting.
35:57 - Yeah, because you need the inspiration visuals,
36:02 seeing what, so watch films, see what you like.
36:06 Visually, you need to know that.
36:09 Get practical experience on set,
36:14 because then you'll know that,
36:17 and then study, go and take courses.
36:19 So then you learn the tech,
36:21 you learn all the notions behind it.
36:26 So all three.
36:28 - Just last couple of things.
36:29 One is, what is the difference between designing
36:32 for a feature film and designing for a series?
36:35 And the reason I'm asking is the sheer duration.
36:38 The lifespan is different on an OTT series.
36:42 There's evolution is of a different kind in character.
36:46 So tell me, yeah.
36:48 - So basically for TV, it's, for film,
36:52 let's start with film, everything is bigger than life,
36:54 because it's all on the big screen.
36:56 So the detail, it's very detail oriented,
36:59 because you'll see the socks, you'll see the cuff,
37:01 you'll see that, because on the big screen,
37:03 you have to pay attention to everything, every detail.
37:06 And it depends, and also, like you said,
37:09 it's so for a shorter duration.
37:11 So all the energies go into making sure that,
37:14 you know, the stripe on the shirt,
37:17 you'll see everything on the big screen, you know?
37:19 So it's very much oriented towards the details,
37:22 the way the cuff is cut, you know, the collar is cut.
37:25 Everything's very detailed.
37:26 The earrings, you'll see everything.
37:28 While in TV, you have to make an impact.
37:31 You have to get the atmosphere.
37:32 You have to get the, you know,
37:34 what's happening in that scene,
37:36 whether it's a sad moment, it's a happy moment,
37:41 it's a moment of tension.
37:43 So we work through silhouettes, colors, shapes.
37:47 So I think, and then you have to work much faster.
37:51 So you have to also be really quick at reading the script
37:53 and understanding whether am I gonna see my aunt
37:56 only this much for the whole thing,
37:57 or is he gonna get up and walk out of the room?
38:00 So, you know, of course you wanna address the actor
38:01 from top to bottom in the best way,
38:04 but also you focus more on what's gonna be seen on camera.
38:09 And I think I use silhouettes and colors to create,
38:14 you know, that makes a big impact.
38:17 For example, if it's raining and, you know,
38:20 there's this tension, then, you know,
38:22 we'll work with the background also saying,
38:24 come in with darker colors.
38:26 So you create that atmosphere.
38:27 And instead, if you wanna show this joyous moment,
38:29 you will show it, you know, like with color and silhouette.
38:33 While when on big screens, you have to be careful,
38:36 like the last person in the back will be maybe seen properly
38:40 because just the way the camera works.
38:42 - Any interesting recommendation for movies
38:47 memorable for their costumes?
38:49 - Oh my God, great.
38:51 The Age of Innocence is one of my favorites
38:54 because that is an authentic portrayal of, you know,
38:58 and then Gangs of New York, of course, you know,
39:00 which I worked on with Sandy Powell.
39:04 But the Age of Innocence, I loved it
39:06 because it's so beautifully shot.
39:08 And Scorsese really took his time to show all the details.
39:12 And there's this slow way of shooting it
39:15 where you see clothes and hair and, you know, props.
39:19 So I think if someone's studying film,
39:21 they should watch that movie.
39:23 (silence)
39:25 [BLANK_AUDIO]