Art And Tech The Art Of Speculative Futures
Transcript
00:00 I'm also your shaman, your guide on imagination.
00:04 So this is the stage, the next couple of days we're going to be doing a few town hall conversations
00:11 about black imagination, speculative design, art and technology, art and AI, music and
00:19 AI, community building and activism.
00:22 We're also going to be talking about school of thought, black radical education, and then
00:28 finally what are practices we can take back home with us as we go through these series
00:32 of conversations.
00:33 Again, my name is Rasu Jelani, I am your host.
00:37 I am also the executive director of the Book and Arts Council back in New York City.
00:43 And it's full circle, we have a bunch of activations here in this Afro-punk activations, a lot
00:49 of technology activations.
00:51 The full circle of all of this is that I'm a long alumni of Afro-punk.
00:56 Back when it was a block party in Brooklyn.
01:00 And being part of alumni is a lot of gratitude and proudness.
01:08 But also I'm really proud to see the level of activations because I started Afro-punk's
01:13 first activation in 2007.
01:16 The levels of activation here with robots and AT&T graphic design and all this stuff
01:22 is crazy, right?
01:24 So I give thanks.
01:25 I'm also gonna offer people to come and take a seat 'cause we're gonna have a family conversation.
01:30 This is a town hall.
01:31 Y'all gonna be part of the conversation too.
01:34 And then I have a guest today, right?
01:36 So what you see in the background is my brother Idris Brewster.
01:39 He has an art and technology company called Kinfolk.
01:43 Idris, come up on the stage, brother.
01:46 Thank you, thank you, thank you.
01:49 So talk a little bit 'cause we have some new folks here.
01:51 We had a session earlier.
01:53 Talk a little bit about what Kinfolk is, the aim, and some of the projects.
01:57 So Kinfolk was really born out of the frustration that me and my co-founders felt around walking
02:03 around New York City and not seeing ourselves represented in the monuments, walking around
02:08 and seeing the archives, seeing not being represented in schools.
02:10 And so we wanted to create a way to share our history like we usually do orally, but
02:15 find a way to share it with technology.
02:17 And so Kinfolk is an augmented reality archive of black and brown history.
02:21 And we use speculative imagination, design, and art creation to create these digital monuments
02:28 of our past, our present, and our future.
02:31 And so a lot of it is really about community building, building these monuments with community,
02:36 and then finding ways to place them in spaces so that we can take up more space without
02:40 having to wait for governments and cultural institutions to make sure that we're represented
02:44 through monuments and through public art.
02:46 And so that's what Kinfolk is.
02:48 So thank you for that.
02:49 So that's a little bit of the context.
02:51 We had a whole conversation about that back at 11 o'clock, new conversation.
02:55 We're going to get a little bit controversial here.
02:59 So everyone here, are you aware of what's going on with art and AI?
03:05 Raise your hand if you have heard about this AI and art generating.
03:09 All right, cool.
03:11 So we're going to talk a little bit about that specifically, right?
03:14 Because as people of color, specifically black people, we're oftentimes in the forefront
03:20 of culture and creating and generating culture.
03:24 Then technology is an extension of that imagination of that phenomenon, but sometimes we can get
03:29 lost and put technology before the phenomenon, right?
03:33 So what I want to do here is get us back to the core of what culture is, right?
03:39 And then what is creativity and that intersection with AI.
03:43 So Idris, just to kick us off, I'm going to throw the question your way.
03:46 What is your thoughts behind AI and visual art specifically?
03:51 Is it problematic or is it creative expression or is it a little bit of both?
03:56 Talk to me.
03:57 I mean, it's always a little bit of both.
03:59 I mean, with technology, there's positive aspects, but there's also negative aspects.
04:04 And with AI, I mean, we'd be able to do things like never before.
04:08 If you go online, it's called DALI, you can type in these different text prompts, like
04:13 sentences, and then the AI will generate sort of images out of that text.
04:18 I mean, that's something that we've never been able to do before.
04:20 You've had to have someone who knows how to design, who knows how to paint, who knows
04:24 how to, or knows how to code to create these things.
04:27 I mean, not anybody can go online, type in Afro punk set up at Essence Fest, and it will
04:33 create an image based off of that.
04:34 And so that is really democratizing sort of the ability to create art and do so really,
04:40 really fast.
04:41 But at the same time, it's like, what is the...
04:44 At the same time, these models and this AI is taking all the data from the internet and
04:49 running that through to create these things.
04:51 And so one, who's giving them permission?
04:55 It's training this AI off of my art.
04:57 Wait, wait, wait, hold on, because you're about to go down a rabbit hole.
04:59 I'm going down a rabbit hole.
05:00 I don't know where you're going with that.
05:01 So we're going to pause that.
05:02 Pause, pause.
05:03 Because when you start talking about agency data and all that stuff, that's IP, there's
05:07 a lot there, right?
05:08 There's a lot there.
05:09 I think we're here with the idea of workflow, right?
05:12 So how many artists do we have in a room?
05:14 Photographers, artists, painters, graphic designers, or artists?
05:18 I see, oh, yeah, shorty, that's right.
05:21 Okay.
05:22 We can all be artists now with AI.
05:23 I'm going to come over there in a second.
05:24 I want to...
05:25 I have questions for you.
05:26 But the artists, right?
05:27 I think about graphic designers.
05:28 I think about people that do landscapes.
05:30 A lot of workflow can be hacked with AI.
05:34 So that's a positive.
05:35 I mean, I like when creating my art and sort of like trying to think about how to like
05:41 create the final piece, the AI, just typing things into the AI generator can give you
05:46 many ideas like never before.
05:47 You can start to visualize things that you're thinking in your head before you actually
05:50 create it.
05:51 So that's a good workflow situation.
05:53 All right, great.
05:54 So I'm going to go to this couple in the back that raised their hand and said that they
05:57 were artists.
05:58 So I'm going to talk to you.
05:59 Brother, I'm walking over to you and your baby girl.
06:02 I'm assuming that's your baby girl.
06:03 You just don't got no random kid in your lap.
06:07 What I'd like from you is your name and the type of art you both do, because you look
06:10 like you're an artist.
06:11 I think you're really the artist and he's taking credit for you.
06:14 All right, so we're going to figure this out.
06:17 I'm Clarence.
06:18 I'm a creative director at an advertising agency.
06:23 And what's your name?
06:24 What kind of art you got?
06:25 Hannah.
06:26 Anna?
06:27 Anna.
06:28 What's your art?
06:29 Hannah.
06:30 Okay.
06:31 You are the art.
06:32 Got it.
06:33 Good answer.
06:34 All right.
06:35 So creative agency, we talked about AI.
06:39 Are you using AI at all?
06:40 Or what are your opinions in AI and art?
06:42 Yeah, I'm using it for like writing scripts and getting ideas and doing quick research.
06:48 It's faster than Google.
06:51 And then if you combine different types of AI platforms, you can come up with something
06:55 really original.
06:56 So that's kind of how I'm using it.
07:00 And for you, the output, talk to me about the output in comparison to your previous
07:08 workflow.
07:09 Anna, you next.
07:10 But talk to me about the output, some of the benefits of AI.
07:13 I think the benefits are you get some quick iterations and examples of what you're looking
07:18 for to go in the right direction.
07:21 So that's the positive, right?
07:22 You can get it really quick and get hundreds of visuals and thousands of scripts really
07:26 quickly.
07:27 Anna, what you got to say about that?
07:29 Yeah.
07:30 All right.
07:31 Yes, is affirmation, exclamation point.
07:35 Well done.
07:36 Right.
07:37 Anybody else?
07:38 Anybody else have any concerns, questions?
07:41 This is an open dialogue.
07:42 It's just not us two on the stage.
07:46 One question that I have about AI and one of the things that you were saying was you're
07:51 bringing in data from the internet.
07:52 And I know you don't want to go down that rabbit hole.
07:57 But the question that I have is around data integrity and how there's a lot of information
08:04 online that is stereotypical black information.
08:10 So as we are creating things in AI and we're mining that information from the internet,
08:16 but a lot of that information is stereotypical black information, how do we know that we're
08:24 mining the right information so that we are creating the things that we really, really
08:30 want to create?
08:31 Give me your name.
08:32 Oh, my name is Chelly.
08:34 Brilliant, Chelly.
08:36 That's an amazing question.
08:38 Now you have permission to go down the rabbit hole.
08:39 I'll go down the rabbit hole.
08:41 Well, I mean, these AI models, I'll call them, I mean, they have stereotypical information.
08:48 I mean, even before this whole revolution, if you searched up on Google, like monkey,
08:54 black folks would come up.
08:56 And so there is a gap in terms of how much the data that they have around black folks.
09:01 And I think that's because like we have like their white folks have been creating these
09:06 AI, been creating these data.
09:08 And so that's why we need more black tech companies, black folks who are gathering this
09:13 cultural information of ourselves so that we can be represented in the proper ways.
09:19 Because if you go into these AI models and type in man, you're not going to get black
09:25 people.
09:26 If you type in woman, you're not going to get black people.
09:29 And even if you type in black woman, black man, it's going to be a stereotypical version
09:32 of what that is.
09:33 You have to be very descriptive, whereas that's not really the case.
09:37 And so we need as a community, as a people, we need to like really think about how are
09:41 we gathering our digital data and how do we create our own models so that we can have
09:47 our own spaces to engage with black cultural information and data.
09:51 But it's a problem right now.
09:53 And there's not really two that the solutions need to be created.
09:56 So I have some follow up questions for you specifically.
10:01 Recommendations for folks here who are creatives, who are thinking about workflow, who are thinking
10:05 about, you know, not only mining data, but creating art in this kind of space.
10:10 But I want to throw it back over to the crew here.
10:13 Oh, you got another.
10:14 All right.
10:15 Before we come to you, anyone else have any questions or response to what Idris said or
10:21 this conversation, the collision of AI and creativity?
10:24 I see you right here, sister.
10:26 Walking over here.
10:29 Name and question or statement.
10:31 Hi, I'm Alice Farrell.
10:34 And my question is, because I used to work with public radio for NPR.
10:39 And I'm just interested to see how is the platform going to be set up for people to
10:44 interact with this?
10:46 Because only way you get the information is when you dive into black experiences.
10:51 So you speak about it at this forum.
10:52 But when we walk away from this platform, how do we get involved?
10:57 Great question.
10:58 Idris, hold that question.
10:59 You got it?
11:00 Yeah, I got it.
11:01 All right, cool.
11:02 One second.
11:03 And then I'm going to pile on the questions.
11:04 I'm going to go to this brother again.
11:07 So I think what I was piggybacking off of what y'all was saying about intellectual property
11:13 and that point you just made about when you Google man, it's not necessarily going to
11:19 be a black man and woman, same thing.
11:21 I think a lot of it is the owners of these platforms, who are they?
11:28 So that's what we got to look at.
11:29 We got to become the owners of the platform if we want these situations to change.
11:35 So I hear about ownership and authorship.
11:38 Right?
11:39 I'm going to come over there in a second.
11:41 I got you, brother.
11:42 Name?
11:43 I'm James Farrell with Montgomery Public Schools.
11:47 And I teach seventh grade.
11:49 And we have a lot of kids that are really into AI, into developing things with computers.
11:57 And they always ask, how are we going to get started?
12:01 How can things-- do they have programs where they put into the schools where the kids are
12:05 kids can start development at a young age?
12:07 Just because they're in the seventh grade doesn't mean they're not capable of doing
12:11 great things.
12:12 And they are.
12:13 I've seen some of the work they've done.
12:16 I'm going to hold the questions for a second.
12:18 I saw there was someone over here.
12:19 I want to give us an opportunity to respond.
12:22 So we have a question on how do we get involved.
12:25 We have a question around or a statement around authorship and ownership.
12:29 So we have an owner of an art and tech company who's doing exactly that.
12:33 So talk to those two elements and then the youth, those three elements, and response.
12:40 Well, I mean, there's not-- I think there-- in terms-- I'll start with the ownership.
12:46 I mean, the ways that we have to get involved with AI and tech in general, I'm like, what
12:51 do we do?
12:52 We have Facebook.
12:53 We have Google.
12:54 We have Amazon.
12:55 We have OpenAI, who's run by all white folks.
12:58 And so there's--
12:59 It's ran by Microsoft, y'all.
13:00 Don't get it twisted.
13:01 Ran by Microsoft.
13:02 Ran by Microsoft.
13:03 And so the platforms that we have, they don't care about black data.
13:08 They're not protective of our communities.
13:10 And so what we're trying to do is as an archive, we're gathering a bunch of cultural information,
13:15 working with communities to digitize our stories.
13:18 And there's a way that we can create a platform that it's not only just us owning-- like,
13:23 we have people owning their own data.
13:26 The technology exists for people to be able to contribute to these archives, these models,
13:31 but also have ownership and say over what gets done with those information.
13:36 But the platforms like that aren't-- they're not in existence yet.
13:39 So in terms of getting involved, I mean, that's a tough question.
13:43 Because there's not too many routes right now, instead of doing something on your own,
13:47 where you can really bring that to life.
13:49 And so that's what we're trying to do at Kinfolk, is trying to really make it so that we're
13:53 working with communities to make this accessible, provide the education, so that the students
13:58 can really get ahead.
13:59 Because these tools, if you master them, you're light years ahead of a lot of folks.
14:04 And so there's a lot of community building and work with the technology that has to happen.
14:10 And it's not really happening at the scale that it needs to.
14:12 And so there needs to be-- we need to build a movement sort of around black ownership
14:16 of data, technology, and creation.
14:19 And I think AI is the sort of-- is the precipice and is like the reason why we can all start
14:26 to do this.
14:27 So.
14:28 >> Yeah.
14:29 So I'm also going to respond, how do we get involved?
14:32 Authorship, ownership, and youth.
14:36 Running an arts council, my main operation is to provide resources, money, and professional
14:42 development to artists in my borough, Brooklyn, right?
14:46 So one of the things I'm thinking about right now is being the first arts council in the
14:51 nation that actively funds emerging technology as an art form.
14:56 The reason why, it goes back to what Idris is saying, is becoming an owner, is becoming
15:01 a content creator.
15:03 The thing about capitalism, it extracts.
15:08 The thing about capitalism is going to maximize and is going to think about who's using this,
15:14 how are they using it, and how can we maximize profits off of that.
15:18 For us, what we have to think about beyond getting involved is how do we get involved
15:22 early, right?
15:24 How do we get involved early enough to become the authors of our own stories?
15:30 Because if we're not the authors of our own stories, then someone is going to tell the
15:33 story for us and then capitalize and appropriate and extract our stories.
15:38 So that's number one.
15:40 Number two, I think it's important to get on top of these technologies at a very early
15:45 state so we're just not consumers.
15:48 Right?
15:49 So think about, I'm old enough to remember when web one, right?
15:55 In the 90s when everyone started getting computers and everyone started going on AOL and Yahoo
16:00 or whatever, how many of us were thinking about building website, thinking about creating
16:05 content?
16:06 We weren't, right?
16:07 Not everybody named mama got a website, right?
16:08 But we have to think like that.
16:10 It's to be ahead of the curve and to be that pioneer.
16:13 So that's one.
16:14 Web two was social media.
16:16 How many of us were creating social media platforms?
16:19 Did y'all know the first social media platform was Black Planet?
16:24 How many of y'all were on Black Planet back in the days?
16:26 I was.
16:27 That was the first web social media platform.
16:31 Black Planet does not get the credit for that.
16:33 Yes, there was AOL and AIM, but in terms of a website, Black Planet was the first online
16:38 community social media platform.
16:41 So with that said, is how are we creating these platforms like Kinfolk that allow us
16:46 to tell our own stories, that allow us to invest back in our communities, that allow
16:50 us to create content so we're telling very dynamic stories to be involved in a dynamic
16:56 way?
16:57 There was a question over here.
16:58 One quick thing is like, just being like, you know how much Twitter, you know how much
17:02 money we probably made Twitter from Black Twitter?
17:04 The amount of content and the amount of like creativity that we've imbued in that platform,
17:09 and yet we see none of that back.
17:11 And so that's just another prime example of how we are generating the money for these
17:15 large tech companies to exist, but we need to do our own so we can generate profits for
17:20 ourselves.
17:21 Indeed, and that's the route.
17:22 So there was someone over here.
17:23 Can you raise your hand so I can see it?
17:26 All right, I'm walking over to you just so the cameras know where I'm going.
17:31 State your name, question or statement.
17:35 Hi, my name is Anay and I work in tech in the Bay Area.
17:40 I don't have a question.
17:41 I have a response to something that was said a little bit earlier.
17:47 I think that it's really important to have these conversations about agency and ownership.
17:55 But there's a bit of a missing piece there because yes, agency and ownership are very,
18:00 very important, but they can seem very daunting and overwhelming to people.
18:05 It's not easy to just be like, I'm going to be an entrepreneur.
18:08 I'm going to start this tech company.
18:10 So there's a lot of other avenues to get involved in AI.
18:14 For instance, I've worked at an AI company for four plus years and I don't own the company.
18:22 I'm in marketing, but being able to tell those stories is part of the conversation, part
18:26 of changing that narrative.
18:29 And in that same vein, we think about, and people have mentioned, you Google something
18:35 and there's very stereotypical things that you see about black people or the diaspora.
18:42 But when you think about tech companies, specifically in AI, you have to also remember that AI models
18:48 are trained on thousands and thousands of pieces of data.
18:52 So if there's more engineers in the space, if there's more people who work in customer
18:59 success and doing POCs, that all translates into the validity of the data that these different
19:07 tech companies are using to then have these outputs.
19:10 So it's one thing to see something in Google, but it's another thing to be in the spaces
19:17 and be in the different tech spaces, whether you're a marketer, whether you're an engineer
19:22 or a writer and having influence that way.
19:29 >> Thank you for that nuance.
19:30 >> Yeah.
19:31 >> Response?
19:32 One second.
19:33 >> I love exactly what you're saying.
19:36 And in my mind, it starts earlier.
19:39 You mentioned a word, engineers.
19:41 So that brings me back to education and STEM.
19:45 So that we're raising more engineers so that to your point, not everybody can or wants
19:52 to be an entrepreneur.
19:54 You know, there's other ways to contribute to that space.
19:58 And I don't want to go too deep with school to prison pipeline and all that stuff or whatever.
20:04 But thinking about all of those things, investing in education, investing in our children and
20:09 getting them involved early on so that we're raising the next generation of future thinkers
20:17 because the school systems today, they're not invested in our education at all.
20:24 And sometimes we don't have the resources to educate our kids.
20:27 It's like few and far between.
20:29 And we need to pull that together as well.
20:31 So I think a community from the ground up, from education all the way up to entrepreneurship
20:37 and even building more black conglomerates so that we can all come together, smaller
20:43 businesses can come together in a bigger conglomerate.
20:46 That whole system needs to really be in place for us to really get ahead of the game.
20:52 >> That's exactly right.
20:53 And that's the reason why I'm doing the work that I'm doing because I was all the way on
20:58 the other end of the spectrum as a creator but kept getting in these obstacles of systemic
21:05 issues.
21:06 So now running an arts council allows me to think about ahead of the curve of what are
21:10 the systems that we're creating to allow for that fluidity, to allow for the agency.
21:15 So the agency and authorship; right?
21:17 So I think we're engineers, that's what an authorship is because you're designing; right?
21:22 For the engineers, thinking about people that are putting content for Google to or the AI
21:29 to scrape that data is that authorship I'm talking about.
21:32 So that's really important that we're just not consuming, that we're creating, authoring
21:37 and owning so we have an ecosystem that's reflected of us holistically, not just blackface.
21:45 So we got to be very careful of creating another system of blackface.
21:50 Questions over here?
21:51 Any responses?
21:52 Sister, walking on this side.
21:55 >> Hi.
21:57 First your work is amazing.
22:00 My question is around kind of the rights that we have as black people over our intellectual
22:06 and creative property.
22:08 So when AI first started to emerge, I'm like, oh, I kind of immediately just had concerns.
22:16 You know, we kind of, you know, go through this era of like, okay, cultural vultures.
22:23 And I think that was my first concern with AI.
22:26 So I guess as an artist, what are your rights, you know, kind of over your intellectual and
22:33 creative property?
22:34 And do you have concerns, you know, that someone can kind of capitalize off of your work?
22:44 >> So first I'll speak to -- oh, she left.
22:47 But I will -- then I'll start here.
22:50 And I think that -- I don't think the law has caught up to AI.
22:57 And that's a lot of like the lawmakers and governments are -- honestly don't really know
23:01 the inner workings of how AI is working.
23:03 So they -- we're sort of catching up.
23:06 AI released, it had already scraped all of our information.
23:10 And so now people are starting to think about and building ways to opt in.
23:13 So now artists can potentially opt in.
23:15 Be like, I want my images to be trained on.
23:18 I don't want my images to be trained on.
23:21 But it's really a -- it's sort of a wild, wild west in terms of that.
23:24 So I have a lot of concerns.
23:26 And when folks like Microsoft are like firing their AI ethics team while investing billions
23:33 and billions of dollars in building AI, that is definitely a concern to me.
23:39 And I think we need to really start a movement around what are the ethics in this space and
23:43 how can I individually have control.
23:45 There needs to be transparency in terms of how these AI systems are working, what they're
23:50 using, and what is my agency within that space.
23:53 Because that's not clear.
23:54 It's a whole black box.
23:56 And so I think we need to start building in that transparency.
23:59 Which all comes back to what I was going to say to her is the education.
24:02 I mean, we need to educate.
24:03 We need to get folks working in this space.
24:05 And it's about engineers.
24:07 But there's so many other -- not everyone can be an engineer.
24:10 Like it's -- there's so many other ways to get involved in tech.
24:13 You can be a product designer, product manager.
24:16 You can be a data analyst that doesn't code.
24:19 You can be a marketer.
24:21 Like there's so many ways to get involved in tech that you can have a say in what's
24:25 happening that we need to start building more inroads.
24:28 And it can't just rely on institutions like schools.
24:31 Like these resources need to be available.
24:33 Need to be -- like when I was building out Kinfolk, I learned how to do computer science.
24:37 And when I was trying to build out the prototypes, I was Googling, YouTubing, following those
24:41 YouTube tutorials.
24:42 It was a lot of me parsing that stuff together.
24:44 So we have all the ability right now to make sure that there's courses and information
24:48 that's readily available.
24:50 And making it culturally relevant as well.
24:52 I was working at Google at the education space to teach kids how to -- black and brown kids
24:56 in New York how to do computer science.
24:58 But it was through the lens of art.
24:59 Like making beats with coding.
25:01 Like creating community solutions through design.
25:04 It's like how can we make this tech -- like make people want to be able to learn it.
25:10 Because there's a way that it's sort of shown right now that seems daunting, hard, and doesn't
25:15 relate to me.
25:16 But if we start to view the culture with the technology and art, bringing that into the
25:20 fold, I think that will make a lot more technologists than there are today.
25:24 You don't need to be just a coder to technologist -- to be a technologist.
25:27 And especially as AI starts to develop, like coding might go obsolete in like five to ten
25:33 years.
25:34 >> That's the part right there.
25:35 >> We need to start being able to think about how to conceptually build these systems and
25:39 use this AI.
25:40 Like coding is not going to be the -- it's not going to be as important.
25:46 Knowing how to use and work with these AI systems is what's going to be important moving
25:51 forward.
25:52 So there's a lot of work to be done.
25:53 And education is at the core of all of it.
25:55 >> Yes.
25:56 And I think -- I'll be remiss not to mention this.
25:59 But he talked about working with Google and training kids.
26:03 This brother got a technology and art platform where he actually hired the person that hired
26:10 him at Google.
26:11 Right?
26:12 So talk about that.
26:14 >> So I was -- my mentor brought me into Google to help teach kids how to do computer science,
26:22 VR, AR, AI.
26:24 And that was -- I left in 2018 to start Kinfolk.
26:28 And he was working at Google ever since and he just quit a month ago.
26:32 And it's the most relieving thing for him being out of that system and being able to
26:35 build on his own.
26:37 He built a lot of the AI tools through the Google creative lab.
26:41 And now his being in that world and knowing how that machine works, he came out being
26:47 like, all right, we need to figure out how to get these tools to the black community.
26:51 How do we use our data and have us be able to have control over that?
26:56 And create a cultural sort of repository or archive that can fill in those gaps that the
27:00 AI is not really accounting for.
27:02 So now we're working together to figure out how AI can help our communities.
27:06 But also it has to be ethical, it has to be safe.
27:08 I'm very critical of AI.
27:10 And so we really need to make ways to figure out how this can work for us and not against
27:14 us.
27:15 >> So I'm very critical of AI as well.
27:17 Brother, I see you.
27:18 Sit and I'll catch up to you right one second.
27:21 I'm also critical of AI.
27:23 My son uses AI.
27:24 My son is also an artist and a mini technologist.
27:28 So he's a multimedia artist that uses AI, that uses machine learning and creates art
27:33 for YouTube.
27:34 I don't understand it, but it's not about me.
27:36 Because he's creating the future.
27:38 And that's the part I'm mentioning.
27:40 We're now in this web 3.5 space, right?
27:45 Who's creating work?
27:46 Who's creating the platform for this?
27:48 We cannot settle to just be consumers.
27:52 We can't sit in front of Instagram all day while people are building algorithms that
27:56 takes our attention away from our growth.
27:59 That takes our attention away from our liberation.
28:02 That's the part that I'm really trying to drive in here.
28:04 I move over to this brother right here who has a question or comment.
28:09 >> Just got a quick question for you.
28:11 You've done a fantastic job with your business.
28:13 Can you talk a little bit about your journey in terms of financing your business from a
28:18 startup to scaling up to where you are now?
28:22 >> Yeah.
28:23 So that's a great question.
28:24 I mean, we're a nonprofit.
28:27 And I think that was a part of the deal for us.
28:30 We started building out prototypes first.
28:32 Rasu is the one who brought me into our first incubator, a residency at the new museum.
28:38 We're able to build out the idea to start seeing how it could work.
28:41 And after we were able to build that prototype, a lot of people go and sort of pitch ideas
28:48 without having the thing to show folks that works.
28:50 >> Prototype.
28:51 You got to have a prototype.
28:53 >> Without just learning myself, it was able to show folks that this is something we can
28:57 do and we can move forward.
28:59 And it started getting more residencies.
29:01 And that built into a few grants that we got.
29:04 It was really two grants that kept on giving every year, which we're really grateful for.
29:08 To be able to get us to this point, we were able to publicly release it in 2021.
29:12 That was about five years between when we started building it to when we were able to
29:16 release it to the public.
29:18 And the part of it is, as a nonprofit, we have the freedom to build this technology
29:22 without having to generate a return and really think about this problem and then the solution
29:27 and focus on the community.
29:30 And that impact is really important.
29:32 As a for-profit, I mean, we would have had to have been generating 10X.
29:36 We're not generating returns, generating money, generating revenue.
29:38 That would have really shifted how we could build and who we were building for.
29:44 So now we've been able to raise a good amount of money to keep it going, have a team of
29:47 like eight folks building this out.
29:49 But it is as a nonprofit.
29:51 It was a lot of grants.
29:52 I was writing grants, writing...
29:54 But the lens of art and technology really opens up a lot of different avenues to go
29:59 get funding.
30:01 And it was art, technology, and education.
30:03 And so we can really pivot to each of those kinds of grants to be able to apply for new
30:07 sort of funding.
30:09 And so it's really keeping the options open in terms of the lanes that you can work in
30:14 and apply for.
30:15 So it's not really applicable to for-profit, but as a nonprofit, that's really how we've
30:19 been able to sustain ourselves.
30:21 And I think it's imperative for us to, when we have ideas, to know the difference of what
30:27 runway our ideas can actually grow.
30:30 Right?
30:31 I run a nonprofit as well.
30:33 I tend to be in nonprofits a lot because ethics mean a lot to me.
30:37 And when you start going to...
30:38 I'm a retired technologist.
30:40 I left technology because the ethics was problematic.
30:43 I felt like I was working for the dark, for the Siths.
30:46 Right?
30:47 I still work in technology, but bringing the art part gives me a little bit of solace around
30:52 the work is meaningful, around culture, the work is meaningful, and bringing my people
30:57 and seeing people like this.
30:59 This is the first event that we've probably been to that most of the crowd is black.
31:04 Most of the events that we go to, the crowd is predominantly white.
31:08 And they understand us.
31:09 They're like, "Yeah, cool."
31:11 But they may not understand the culture.
31:13 They understand the culture, but the technology may be a little bit of a learning curve.
31:17 So my question to all of you, and I see you right over there, brothers.
31:19 I need you to come a little closer so the cameras can get you.
31:23 Is how many of y'all are artists?
31:25 Raise your hand.
31:26 Because I have more people here.
31:27 If y'all are artists, raise your hand.
31:30 Cool.
31:31 How many of y'all are technologists?
31:33 Raise your hand.
31:34 Great.
31:35 How many of y'all are art and technologists?
31:39 See that?
31:40 One brother.
31:41 This is where the future is going.
31:43 The people that are emerging, these two paradoxical forms of expression coming together, because
31:49 in my opinion, that's the charter forward.
31:53 Where the brother at that raised his hand?
31:55 There you go.
31:56 All right.
31:57 Thanks a lot.
31:58 I appreciate the brother's information, your information.
32:03 Not in tech space, but I did have a question as it relates to the nonprofit, because I've
32:08 been grappling with other entities, whether to go nonprofit, for profit.
32:15 When you mentioned getting the grants, and I'm not familiar with your organization, but
32:20 do you have a revenue generating source that wants the grants?
32:25 Because grants, you know how they shift depending on the mood and the trends to be able to sustain
32:29 what you're doing, whether the grant's coming or not.
32:34 We're working on it.
32:35 We're working on it.
32:36 We've been able to work with museums and heritage sites to really create experiences about black
32:41 history that activate these sites.
32:44 So that's been getting generated revenue from that, as well as we're trying to work with
32:50 schools more to provide curriculum around AI, but also history, so that that can start
32:56 to generate some revenue.
32:58 But I think as of right now, most of our funding is through nonprofits.
33:04 So that's something that we luckily, very privileged to have the space to really work
33:07 out and consider, but yeah, we haven't been able to generate that revenue as of yet.
33:14 But it's starting to trickle in this year, so things are starting to shift for us, especially
33:17 in terms of contracts with museums and heritage sites.
33:20 So I'm going to answer that question, but I want to also unpack a couple of things.
33:24 We're going to start to wrap up, and you'll be the last person, right?
33:27 One, we use a lot of acronyms that creates accessibility issues for people that may not
33:33 know what the fuck we're talking about.
33:35 So one, AR, augmented reality.
33:39 So augmented reality is different from virtual reality, VR, which is usually, if you're in
33:45 this space right here, no, actually those are headphones, but the VR is when you have
33:50 a headset, goggles over your face that impairs your vision.
33:55 So it puts you into another world.
33:56 It's like wearing a television on your face.
33:59 AR is different, is what Apple is coming out with, with those goggles, where you can still
34:05 see everything, but then you can put things in the space, right?
34:10 What you're seeing here with his platform, his platform is an AR platform with monuments,
34:15 putting monuments in spaces, physical spaces, right?
34:18 It's also like face filters, like Instagram filters.
34:21 Exactly, Instagram face filters is AR, right?
34:25 And then you have AI, we're talking about artificial intelligence.
34:27 So I want to make sure I brought it down a little bit, not down or up, but just grounded
34:32 it.
34:33 So we're just not, I see elders in here, and they be like, "What are you talking about?
34:35 What is AR and VR and all this stuff?"
34:37 It's important that we actually translate, so we're not creating another caste system
34:41 of intelligence.
34:43 Sister right here.
34:44 One second.
34:45 He's setting up the camera.
34:48 That's why essence.com and stuff, you know.
34:52 We got to make sure you look cute.
34:55 At all times, right?
34:56 And ain't no AR filter going to make you look cute.
34:58 You got to be naturally cute, you know what I mean?
35:02 Yes, my name is Shanice Johnson.
35:06 I am here by the grace of the most high, all praise to the most high.
35:13 I did want to know if our generation would learn to make vision boards happen more often.
35:23 Like Oprah says that, "Get into your vision board.
35:26 You can see your path more clearly if you vision your passion."
35:32 Your passion, I mean.
35:34 Put it down on a big board.
35:36 Put it on your wall.
35:37 See the vision and keep it going.
35:40 Some of us don't, some of our generation and our children, our urban children, don't see
35:47 these things happening because it's in your head, but it's all jumbled.
35:55 If we had it on a vision board...
35:56 Where are your thoughts at with the vision board?
35:59 Did you make a vision board?
36:00 Did you say, "This is what I want to do in 2023, 2020, 2021, whatever it may be."
36:07 And you said, "I'm going to go get it."
36:10 I think that has...
36:11 When you say goals, when you say your vision, and this is what I wanted to do, and I went
36:15 and done it, but some people need a map.
36:19 Oprah says, "Make a vision board."
36:23 Thank you, sister.
36:25 Thank you.
36:26 Thank you.
36:27 That's a great way to bring us grounded.
36:29 So two things.
36:31 One, this is one conversation of six.
36:34 We did two today.
36:36 This conversation series is the vision board.
36:39 We're getting out of our heads and sharing it with each other and bouncing ideas back
36:43 and forth.
36:44 We're experts in our field, but we're not experts of your imagination.
36:49 What I want to do is try to extract out of you parts of your imagination that can help
36:53 us collectively realize our future.
36:56 The aim of these conversations, these town halls, this is the last one for today.
37:00 There's two more tomorrow around AI and music and community organizing.
37:06 So as we're visualizing New Orleans as a black utopia, that's what this is called, blacktopia.
37:14 Right?
37:15 New Orleans as a black utopia.
37:17 What are we bringing with us?
37:18 What are we leaving behind and how we're imagining ourselves moving forward?
37:22 And what is that vision board for?
37:24 So what these are, this is visionary exercise in the form of a conversation.
37:29 So to answer your question about nonprofit and profit generation, nonprofits are still
37:36 generating revenue.
37:37 It's one of the biggest misnomers.
37:39 I've had multiple companies.
37:41 I ran a tech incubator inside of a museum and now I run a nonprofit arts council in
37:47 Brooklyn.
37:48 I still have to get investors, aka foundations and grants.
37:54 I still have to make sure that my budget, I'm in a deficit this year, but I'm going
37:58 to try not to get in a deficit.
38:00 I'm staying in the green and not in the red.
38:02 Same as for profits.
38:05 Make sure I'm looking at partnerships to generate revenue.
38:09 So it still operates like a business.
38:11 One of the biggest misnomers is that a lot of why a lot of black institutions don't get
38:15 funded properly besides racism is that our structures and the way that we think about
38:22 running a nonprofit, we have to think about it like a business.
38:26 So going to foundations is like going to an investor.
38:30 You got to pitch your idea.
38:32 Are our values aligned?
38:33 Great.
38:34 Now let's do it.
38:35 You still have to deliver.
38:36 And then it's also knowing your landscape.
38:39 When you have that vision board and you lay out what your idea is, who's in the game?
38:45 Who's doing what I do?
38:47 Can I partner with them?
38:48 Are we in competition for the same funding?
38:51 Competition is the biggest lie because there's a lot of money out here.
38:54 So we have to think about that.
38:55 Then we think about your staff.
38:58 So it's the same visioning.
38:59 It's the same thing.
39:00 Whether it's for profit or non-profit, for profit or non-profit, it's both part of capitalism.
39:05 You still got to go to the capitalists to get the money to fund your non-profit.
39:10 And who do you think the foundations are?
39:12 Slave owners, oil money, same shit.
39:15 Right?
39:16 So I'm just keeping it very basic.
39:19 It's the same stuff.
39:20 We're running in the same system.
39:23 We've been tricked to think it's two different things.
39:24 It's the same thing.
39:25 It just has a tax distinction.
39:29 And that note, peace y'all.
39:30 Have a lovely day.
39:31 I love y'all.
39:32 So tomorrow we'll be here with Cavalier.
39:36 We're going to talk about AI and music.
39:39 And then we'll be here with Cavalier who's here in New Orleans.
39:42 And we have Stephanie McKee Anderson of Junebug Productions to talk about community organizing,
39:48 solidarity, and economy.
39:50 And that's about it.
39:51 And Idris, thank you for your time, brother.
39:52 Peace.
39:53 Peace.
39:53 Yes, peace.
39:54 (upbeat music)
39:57 (upbeat music)