EMPIRE president Tina Davis joined Forbes senior writer Jabari Young at the Nasdaq MarketSite to discuss her 30-year career in music, including discovering Montell Jordan and managing Chris Brown.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00For those working in corporate America, it is best to protect your ideas at all costs.
00:05And in a minute, we will introduce you to the corporate entrepreneur who can explain a little bit better.
00:10Going inside of the music business with Empire President Tina Davis.
00:14You're in an enterprise zone at the NASDAQ.
00:21Hello everyone, this is Jabari Young, Senior Writer at Forbes, and I am at the NASDAQ,
00:25joined by Empire President Tina Davis.
00:29She is like one of the best people in music.
00:32I want to call you like the music muse or something, because you've created some great talent.
00:36I don't want to tell them yet, to all the people that's on your roster.
00:38You got a number one song on the label that's out.
00:41But Tina, thank you so much for joining us.
00:43For those who don't know, Empire is a record label and distributor.
00:47Music publishing company based in San Francisco.
00:49Projects released from Kendrick Lamar, responsible for Shabuzzi's number one hit bar song.
00:55And this is the lady that's probably responsible.
00:57Tina, thank you so much for joining us.
00:59Thank you for having me.
01:00Is this your first time here?
01:01This is my first time.
01:01It's so nice.
01:02Yes.
01:03Well, I'm glad that you can make it.
01:04Thank you so much again.
01:06Now that we're here, give me a stock.
01:07Something that's helped you, maybe something you've invested in.
01:10What is one of the stock, public stock?
01:11Ooh.
01:12Actually, I invested in Spotify.
01:15Spotify?
01:15Yes.
01:16Of course.
01:16You're in the music business, why not?
01:17Yeah, that's a good one.
01:18Spotify and Amazon have done me well.
01:20Absolutely.
01:20Yeah, that's a good one.
01:21I don't have Spotify in my portfolio.
01:23I need to put it in there.
01:24How about UMG stock?
01:25No?
01:26They're trading in Amsterdam, but no, no, no.
01:28No, no, no, no.
01:28Okay.
01:29Well, again, what is your biggest money management advice?
01:32Because, again, April, financial literacy month, that's a big core in this community for
01:35it'd be okay with biggest money management advice?
01:37I mean, you know what?
01:39I would have to go with what my father has always told me, and he told me to invest in
01:43real estate.
01:44Invest in real estate.
01:45Continue to invest in real estate.
01:47Put your money, at my age, put your money into an IRA, 401k if you're inside of a company,
01:53and try your best to save as much as possible early on because retirement is not easy.
01:59Absolutely.
02:00I'm telling you.
02:00I love that phrase, too, as far as, like, you know, putting money away.
02:04That's definitely important.
02:06But real estate, because Oprah, I was listening to her interview with her, she definitely
02:10buys land.
02:10Her philosophy is they're not making more of it, so I'm going to invest in it.
02:13So maybe we've agreed.
02:15Yes.
02:15Maybe it's a consensus, Oprah, if I see.
02:17I would take that.
02:18Yeah, I would take that.
02:19Getting to some news, congratulations.
02:21You know, you are an honoree, billboard woman in music, executive list, your achievements,
02:27longevity, over three decades in music, right?
02:29I was looking, and I said, man, this is the start of Def Jam all the way back, man.
02:33And it said 31 years, I believe, you've been in the business, right?
02:37This year, 2025, 31 years.
02:40What does that honor mean, right?
02:41Billboard women in music, executive of your level, like, what does that mean right now
02:45for you?
02:46Honestly, you know, when I was, when I first started, we didn't have award shows, and we
02:51didn't, the executives didn't get as much praise.
02:53So it means a lot to me now, knowing that my peers through the decades are still supporting
03:00me, you know what I mean?
03:01And recognizing that all of the women who have been honored have been doing their jobs
03:06in this industry.
03:08Yeah.
03:08Has someone maybe helped you along the way?
03:11Have you got in?
03:11Because I know we'll get into your history in a minute, but someone that stands out to
03:15you that's really helped you along the way in music?
03:17Who is it?
03:17That would, every year, there's someone different, or every decade, I would say.
03:23At one point, it was Lior Cohen.
03:24He was always there for me and supported me.
03:27He and Russell Simmons.
03:29And then, obviously, Ghazi is always there to support.
03:33A gentleman by the name of Ernest Singleton, who used to work at MCA, used to, gave me some
03:37of the best advice, actually.
03:38He told me, you know, work so hard that you don't have to go apply for a job.
03:42They're calling you.
03:43Absolutely.
03:43And I've kept that motto.
03:44Yeah, I was listening to that in the podcast.
03:46I love that you said that, too.
03:48As we sit, right, in the music industry, this is your industry, in 2025, right?
03:53If you had to describe, in one word, what the industry is in 2025, it's midway point of
03:58this decade.
03:59Because Empire sits in a very interesting place.
04:01You know, again, independent, distributor, and record label.
04:03What word would that be to describe the music industry?
04:07I would probably say disruptive.
04:12Disruptive.
04:13Why disruptive?
04:13Because I feel Empire, we are disruptive.
04:16We've disrupted the industry a little bit to where, you know, the deals are different.
04:21They're leaning toward the artist and being artist-friendly.
04:24I would say because there are so many different genres that are fusing into genres that usually
04:30like to be very pure, like a Shibuzi in country.
04:34Same thing when it came to when Nas X did it or, you know, others.
04:38But I feel like there's a time now where there are no lines, whether it's EDM and dance, whether
04:44it's rock music or country music or even hip-hop for that matter.
04:49There are really no set purist lines at this point.
04:52I had a conversation with Def Jam CEO and chairman, Tanji Bulligan.
04:57And we were talking and going back over the Napster LimeWire days and just where it was.
05:02And I said the same thing I asked you.
05:04I asked him.
05:04And he was saying how discovery is better, that the distribution methods are better, and
05:08that the industry's stranglehold is loosened.
05:10Like, that was something that he said.
05:12Do you agree with that?
05:13To that point, exactly, yes.
05:15I definitely believe that.
05:16Because at one point, they didn't have an option to do a deal anywhere else.
05:21They couldn't distribute on their own and be in their bedroom and be a superstar in their
05:26bedroom, you know?
05:28You only could go through a major deal and only be able to be seen through a major distribution.
05:34And now, it's not like that.
05:36Yeah.
05:36Yeah.
05:37Looking at that history, it was a 2021 Wall Street Journal article that popped up, and
05:41I was looking at how, you know, UMG is going through their ownership issues and public trading
05:47and all that stuff.
05:48But it was a line in there, and it said the music industry is no longer a one-time transactions
05:53hit business, right?
05:55It is now a streaming has transformed into something like a monthly annuity revenue stream
06:01business, right?
06:02You agree with that at all?
06:04I do agree to a certain extent.
06:06I do feel that it is something that is a little monthly.
06:10And I do feel that, you know, it's a different time.
06:13Because at one point, you couldn't tell several things.
06:18You couldn't tell whether a genre was doing well, because it was based on just what records
06:23were selling and SoundScan at that point.
06:26And then, now that you're in the streaming world, and you're able to see from numbers, from whether
06:31it's Spotify or from something called Laminate that we look into, or chart metrics, you get
06:37a chance to see what it takes to actually break an artist.
06:41And let's say it's a new artist, and the artist is not on radio.
06:45They're not really known.
06:46They have social media platforms, but they're not as big as a Beyonce, right?
06:53They could still live comfortably and stream well, and every month have something coming
07:01in and checks and being able to have pretty much have a living based on recording records
07:08and having records released.
07:09So, yeah, I do agree with that.
07:12What's it like being president of Empire?
07:13Like, I mean, what does that feel like, and what is your day-to-day?
07:17Oh, every day is different.
07:19There isn't one day that's the same.
07:22Actually, it's great.
07:23It's a very comfortable setting.
07:26We have an incredible, smart team.
07:29Everybody else says, oh, we're like a family.
07:31You know that saying.
07:32Yeah, yeah.
07:32And usually they're lying.
07:35But I have to say, we aren't.
07:36We're serious and very diverse, by the way, with everything happening with DEI.
07:42We've always been diverse.
07:45And we are 52% women.
07:47So with Women's History Month, I think I should share that.
07:51But for the most part, it's amazing because being in a position where, you know,
07:57you have an industry that is looking for talent alongside of us,
08:04but their fight is to try and get people to stay within the same norms as they used to have,
08:10thinking that they have to have a major.
08:13But us standing true and being true to who we are and fighting through that
08:18and being disruptors, again, as I should say, it just gives you just a battery in your back
08:24to be excited about going to work every day and showing and proving that it can be done
08:28and to help bring talent like a Shibuzzi who was signed to Republic,
08:33got dropped from Republic, and came to an independent company, help him fulfill his dreams.
08:38Like, you can't beat that.
08:40Yeah.
08:41That business, though, because I'm glad you had mentioned that,
08:43because I was looking at placements and how that all works.
08:46And, you know, I was listening to, I love Joe Budden's podcast,
08:48and I think he had brought up a comment from L.A. Reid,
08:52and they were talking about this music, this red button that gets pushed, right?
08:55First of all, is there a button that somebody could push where an artist goes skyrocket?
08:58It's not a button, right?
08:59Okay, great.
09:00So it's true.
09:01L.A. was like, no, there's no button.
09:02But what is that business?
09:04Because how does, where's empire's place in the ecosystem?
09:07Because if you look at the back of, or even nowadays on Apple iTunes,
09:11and you see at the bottom, okay, who's the label?
09:13I'm always interested in that.
09:14And you'll see empire, and then you'll see Republic on one, right?
09:18Like, what is the business there for somebody who may not know how this all works?
09:21What role do you guys play in the ecosystem?
09:24Well, I mean, when it comes to what's at the bottom of Spotify or Apple or what have you,
09:31I mean, we're equivalent to any other major, right?
09:34But in this system, we are the independent, completely independent, privately owned,
09:40never been distributed by anyone else.
09:41We are our own distributor.
09:42We're a global company.
09:43So we don't have to do deals with sister companies to break artists outside of North America.
09:49We are that option.
09:52We are the hybrid.
09:53You know, we are that company that can give you every single thing any other major record label can give you.
10:00But you get to own your own masters, and we do our deals fairly.
10:05Our deals are pro-artists.
10:07They get the lion's share.
10:09And, you know, our sweat equity is really based on how hard they work as well.
10:14Yeah.
10:14If I got, like, Barre Song Part 2 that I got my right, it's going to blow up, right?
10:18It's Jabari's Barre Song Part 2.
10:20And I have you, Tina Davis, I have Empire on one side and maybe this other record label on the other side.
10:24Why am I choosing Empire?
10:25Well, first and foremost, because you want to build generational wealth and you want to be able to own your masters.
10:30That's bottom line.
10:31Two, because when you sign with a major label, they have to do a deal.
10:37If you sign, let's say, in North America, they have to do a deal with Europe to break you in Europe.
10:43It'll be all over the world, but before they start marketing with that sister company, they have to actually do a deal with that sister company.
10:51So let's say you do a deal here and it's 50-50.
10:53Well, 50-50 turns out to be 20-20 because 20% of it, I mean 40-40 because 20% of it goes to their distributor, right?
11:01So you're on Def Jam.
11:0220% goes to Universal.
11:04So then when they go and decide they want to break you at Def Jam in the U.K., then they have to do a deal with them.
11:11So that breaks it into, they take 20% off the top of that, off of the 40.
11:15Wow.
11:15So now you're cutting your money down.
11:18Very, yes, to the bare minimum.
11:19To the bare minimum.
11:20But here at Empire, we're global.
11:22So if you do a 50-50 deal with us here, we're our own distributor.
11:25We don't take 20% out.
11:27So 50-50 is here.
11:29The same 50-50 will happen all around the world.
11:31We're not doing a sister company deal.
11:33So that's why you should choose to be at Empire as opposed to a major.
11:37Yeah, I love that.
11:38Biggest positive surprise about being president of Empire?
11:43How many hands you have to shake and kiss.
11:45How many babies you have to kiss.
11:47So you walk around with a lot of hand sanitizer.
11:48A lot of hand sanitizer.
11:50I had a friend that was with me during All-Star weekend.
11:53You know, that's festive.
11:54And I walked in the door and every four seconds I was like, hey, how you doing?
11:58Hey, taking pictures.
11:59She said, you're better than me.
12:00There is no way I could do it.
12:02And I said, well, you know, this is part of it.
12:04Part of business.
12:04It's a part of business.
12:06And, you know, when you think about, you see the president and they're waving.
12:09I was like, I feel like I'm doing that sometimes.
12:11Like, you know, but.
12:13But you're in a parade.
12:14Yeah, like I'm in a parade.
12:16I love it.
12:16Exactly.
12:17But I enjoy it.
12:18I enjoy it.
12:18Biggest negative surprise.
12:19We all have positives, but there has to be that negative surprise that you didn't expect.
12:23And you might still not like it today.
12:25I don't know if there's so much of a negative outside of.
12:30I love to travel, but it's a lot of traveling.
12:38I love to travel.
12:39Like, I would not change it, but it's a lot of traveling, a lot of living inside and outside of bags.
12:44Sometimes moving from city to city with different weather temperatures.
12:50Like now I'm in New York.
12:51I leave here and go to Canada.
12:53From Canada I go to L.A.
12:54And then from L.A. I go back to San Francisco all within a week.
12:57You know, and sometimes it's South Africa and then London and then back to Nigeria all within 10 days.
13:04That would be the hardest part of it, but I still love it.
13:07Yeah.
13:07Be careful in Canada, though.
13:08I don't think they like us very much right now.
13:10So, you know, I don't want them to take you up there.
13:12Listen, I was just talking to my sister.
13:14And I was like, I don't know what they're saying about us getting back into the United States.
13:17Yeah, right.
13:17Because I hear they're looking at our phones.
13:18You get in, you may not be able to get back out.
13:20I might have been, exactly.
13:22Exactly.
13:22Well, I mean, listen, what are you like in business?
13:24Like, what's inside of your portfolio?
13:25I mean, I know you love real estate and you have some of the video stock, right?
13:28But what else is going on inside?
13:29Any businesses?
13:30What else is in your portfolio?
13:32You know what?
13:33I have a management business that I had started when I left Def Jam.
13:37Yeah.
13:38And I still manage and kind of help to serve a couple of artists and talent.
13:42But for the most part, I'm kind of in this space working at Def Jam.
13:47I mean, at Empire.
13:47Empire, that's right.
13:48You clean that up, right?
13:49See?
13:49You got to clean that up.
13:50See?
13:50Well, I'm glad you said that because this is a perfect segue to go back in time.
13:55You started at Def Jam, obviously.
13:56You're at Empire now.
13:58But you grew up in Vallejo, California.
14:00Yes.
14:00What was that like for you?
14:02Vallejo was very, it's a lot of talent from Vallejo.
14:04A lot of people aren't aware, like Sly Stone is from Vallejo.
14:07Confunction is from Vallejo.
14:09Sly is from Vallejo?
14:09Sly is from Vallejo.
14:10Wow.
14:11Yeah, he moved at three months.
14:12So you could say he's from Vallejo, right?
14:15Her is from Vallejo.
14:17E-40 is from Vallejo.
14:18Like I said, Confunction.
14:20There's so many.
14:21LaRussell, I don't know if you know about LaRussell.
14:23He's our new talent that's out there as well.
14:25But the Bay Area itself is full.
14:28It's cultural.
14:29It's full of talent.
14:31And it was exciting when I was younger.
14:34You know, as I'm older a little bit, it's a different environment.
14:38And it's still great.
14:40But yeah, it's great.
14:41What did your parents do?
14:43My mother worked at the Napa State Hospital.
14:46And my father was an iron worker.
14:48What did you learn from him?
14:50What I learned from my father is to, he used to tell us,
14:53get up early in the morning.
14:55Get up.
14:55You're burning daylight.
14:57And to stay consistent, be a good person, God-fearing person,
15:02and to work so hard that people offer you different jobs
15:09and offer you to be a part of whatever they're building.
15:12How about mom?
15:13What you learned from her?
15:14Mom, you know, to care and love and not to judge.
15:20My mother never judged, you know?
15:21It didn't matter how much you had, how little you had,
15:24how big or small or how you felt.
15:27She always cared about everyone and didn't judge them
15:30for what they had or who they were.
15:32Social media wasn't around now.
15:33I don't know.
15:34It was different.
15:35And I still, to this day, don't judge.
15:37I do see a lot of things on there.
15:38But don't you want to say something sometimes in your head?
15:41No.
15:41Sometimes I'll even type it and I'm like, ooh.
15:43You can delete it.
15:44I did that.
15:44Not to, I did it.
15:45You know, it helps you get out.
15:47But then you don't have to post it, right?
15:48You just hope you don't push the button and you post it.
15:50No, I don't.
15:51I screenshot it, though, so I can see it and that's good.
15:54But, you know, I read somewhere that, you know,
15:56when you were five years old around, or I'm sorry,
15:59maybe not five, in elementary school,
16:00but you charged people five cents to hear you sing at a concert?
16:03Like, that's how you understood the supply and demand?
16:06That's so crazy.
16:07I was telling someone this the other day.
16:09Yeah, you know.
16:10But you couldn't sing, but they would still pay you five cents.
16:12I was horrible, but I had a security guard, too.
16:15You paid a security guard?
16:16I didn't pay her.
16:17Oh.
16:17She was the yard duty.
16:18Oh.
16:19So the yard duty would escort me to my show.
16:21Man, you were the ultimate celebrity, though.
16:23Oh, be clear, I had dancers and background singers and everything.
16:26In elementary school, you were doing this?
16:27In elementary school, it was like a little grassy knoll,
16:30and they would all sit on the grassy knoll,
16:32and I would charge them five cents to come.
16:34Absolutely.
16:34I mean, when you say, what is your purpose
16:37and the patterns that led to wherever you're going,
16:40that was an example of that for me.
16:42What were you looking at when supply and demand?
16:45Like, what were you trying to study as an elementary school?
16:47Because, listen, when I was at elementary school,
16:48I was interested in, like, two things.
16:50I wanted to play turtles.
16:50What was my new toy?
16:52Did Mr. Softie come around later on that even?
16:54But you were sitting up here charging
16:56and trying to understand what supply and demand is.
16:58Honestly, I believe it was because my parents really were into music,
17:03and they took us to a Jackson 5 concert.
17:06By the way, that was a serious nosebleed section that I was in.
17:10I was up against the wall like the cement was hitting us behind our heads.
17:14But just the experience of knowing we had to get the tickets
17:18and then get in line and then you get inside and you go
17:21and then noticing that you're way up here and everybody's down there
17:24and me asking, I want to be down there, Dad.
17:26He's like, yeah, that's too expensive for us, babe.
17:28You can't go.
17:29I think it kind of put in my mind of, oh, okay,
17:33so that's the process.
17:35You pay for the ticket.
17:36You get a great show.
17:38But the more money you pay for the ticket,
17:40the closer you get to the artist.
17:42So, you know, I felt like because I had the grassy knoll
17:46and every seat was a good seat like an amphitheater
17:48that I could charge everybody five cents.
17:50But I just wanted to be a star.
17:52Was that your first concert at Jackson 5?
17:54Yes, it was.
17:55What was it like?
17:56You're seeing a Jackson 5.
17:57I see the movie all the time, Jackson 5 American Dream.
18:00It must have been crazy seeing Michael and Tito
18:02and all those guys up there going on stage.
18:04They were really tiny because I was in the old blue section.
18:07Put a hair in it, though.
18:08Put a hair in it.
18:09But it was amazing.
18:10It was amazing.
18:11I danced and sang every song the whole time.
18:13My cousin and I wore kind of matching outfits,
18:17but we all forked our hair out so we had afros like Michael.
18:20So we were doing, you know, doing a little dances out there,
18:23doing all the routines with them.
18:25It was amazing.
18:25And then you get to age 13, right, and you're sitting at home
18:28and you're watching Crust Groove.
18:30And Crust Groove, you see Russell Simmons and you see Rick Rubin
18:33and you hear the A&R, you know, story.
18:37And this is what prompted you that you wanted to go and do A&R,
18:40to find and discover talent, right?
18:42Is that where you fell in love with the music business?
18:44At that point, like, I know my purpose.
18:47I know I love music.
18:48I have a clear understanding of supply and demand, right?
18:50And now I know what I want to do, A&R.
18:53I will say this.
18:55At that point, I put a name on it and a title on it
18:59because I knew I wanted to find talent
19:01and I knew I wanted to have something to do
19:04with the making of the music.
19:06I had played classical piano for eight years,
19:08but after I got into boys and starting to get out, I stopped.
19:12I quit, which I wish I had kept.
19:14And so after a while, you know, I sort of, like, realized
19:20that that wasn't, you know, what I was going to do.
19:24But at Def Jam, I guess, I don't know,
19:27it felt like Def Jam was where I wanted to be from Crust Groove
19:32because that's all they said.
19:33And I felt like that was the only thing that I knew about,
19:36so that's all I wanted to do.
19:38But when I went to college and started to be an anchor,
19:42I kind of forgot all that.
19:44And I kept trying to figure out, like,
19:45is this what I'm supposed to be doing for the rest of my life?
19:47Do I want to chase people down with a microphone
19:49and ask them questions all day?
19:51You see my problem.
19:53Listen, I understand it.
19:54It's hard.
19:55But it's fulfilling because when I did it, I loved it.
19:58It's been on a day.
19:58I loved it.
20:00But I realized that, you know what,
20:03this is what I've been doing all along.
20:05I was giving concerts.
20:06When my father asked me what I wanted for my straight A's,
20:09I told him I wanted piano lessons.
20:11I danced for E-40 and some of the rappers in the Bay Area,
20:15hip-hop dancing.
20:15Music was always in you.
20:16So it was always in me.
20:17So that's when I realized, like, okay,
20:19I'm going to go after that dream from 13 and focus on that.
20:23Yeah.
20:23As you're navigating Grambling State University, right?
20:26Well, first of all, why did you decide to go to that HBCU
20:28in Grambling State?
20:29Mass communication was your major.
20:30But why did you decide to go to that school,
20:32being from Vallejo, California,
20:34and you're going to go all the way to Grambling State?
20:36Why that school?
20:37Well, first and foremost, all of my friends went there.
20:40There you go.
20:40So I decided that I wanted to be around friends
20:44so that I could be, you know, feel a little safe.
20:47And I just always heard about the football.
20:50My father and my brothers were always talking about
20:53Grambling and Eddie Robinson.
20:54Oh, you have to go to Grambling.
20:55That history.
20:57So that's what made me go to Grambling State.
20:59And as you're navigating the college campus, right,
21:01what's your soundtrack to life?
21:03Like, what's the songs that's keeping you moving?
21:05Ooh.
21:05Ooh.
21:07Back then?
21:08You're making me go back.
21:09That was 91, 92, right?
21:11No, it was more like 90, 89 and 90.
21:18Ooh, I'm not sure.
21:19I can't remember some of those songs
21:20that we were listening to back then.
21:22Oh, man.
21:22I know.
21:23You got to start thinking about the VH1 soul.
21:25I know, I know.
21:27It was so many.
21:27VT, Donnie Simpson episode?
21:28It was so many.
21:29But I'll tell you,
21:31Erykah Badu was in college there when I was there.
21:34At Grambling?
21:35Yes.
21:35Wow.
21:35And she was a rapper, actually.
21:38She wasn't singing, and she had a group.
21:41And I was always at the talent shows trying to be part of whoever, you know,
21:45whoever was in there making the decisions.
21:47So we kind of, you know, we had a lot of sororities and fraternities there.
21:53So music was all around us.
21:56Yeah.
21:56I can't even recall what our soundtrack was.
21:58It's so sad that I can't off the top of my head right now.
22:00Yeah.
22:00And for you to be in music, that's a shame.
22:02That's bad.
22:03That's bad.
22:03It's really bad.
22:04Yeah, that's bad.
22:04But you got to give me credit.
22:06I've been through 30 years of, you know what I mean?
22:08Well, you know what, though?
22:09And I've been creating records.
22:11You have.
22:11But I'll tell you what.
22:12Your soundtrack probably is, one of the soundtracks, one of the pieces of music,
22:15is probably something that everybody loves, right?
22:17Because 1993, you get to Def Jam and Russell Simmons instructs you to go find a song.
22:23And as you're scattering the tapes, you find one of the hottest songs that was ever made.
22:26And Montel Jordan's This Is How We Do It, right?
22:29And that song goes on to just blow up.
22:32When you think about that era when you were in music and you were identifying that song,
22:36what comes to mind?
22:38You know, the funny thing is, you know, Leor and Russell have parted ways with the guy that hired me.
22:45And that guy was Paul Stewart.
22:47And he found Coolio and several other incredible, talented people.
22:53And when they parted ways, he told me to go find the records and, you know, move into another office.
22:59And when I listened to it, and when I got the job, my job was as an A&R admin.
23:04So I had to clear all of the samples.
23:06I had to make sure all the credits and things were done.
23:08And Def Jam at that time didn't have a great relationship with most of the people who owned samples,
23:13who owned the records.
23:13And specifically, M. Toomey was really pissed off that we had used a record and didn't pay him.
23:21So as I was going through and I found this record, I found that it was Children's Story, which was our master.
23:27That's right.
23:27So I said, this is easy to clear.
23:29This record is amazing.
23:31And it just so happens that Montel Jordan was at my cousin's house three or four weeks ago,
23:37didn't tell me he was rapping or singing.
23:38He just was playing dominoes.
23:40We were playing dominoes, having drinks.
23:43And so when I saw it, I was like, Montel, okay, this is kismic.
23:47This is God telling me that I need to send this.
23:49And as I listened to the record, it's undeniable.
23:51You listen to it now.
23:52Yeah.
23:52It gets you moving.
23:53It is.
23:53I mean, he's still playing in clubs.
23:54He's still playing.
23:55It's on television commercials.
23:56Exactly.
23:57It's everywhere.
23:57So it was something that was kind of easy for me to kind of pinpoint to say, this is going to work.
24:04Yeah.
24:04You know?
24:05How did you, what were you learning about how to break a record, how to break a star?
24:09Because you talk about people who were unknown.
24:11It was him.
24:12You didn't know who he was.
24:13He was sitting dominoes, right?
24:14Right.
24:14And then you find out he was.
24:15What did you learn about that?
24:16You know what?
24:17I realized, because when I was there in that position, I did everything.
24:21So I called the Lakers.
24:23I was like, listen, I have this song called, this is how we do it.
24:26It's getting ready to blow up.
24:27I never was going to blow up at that time.
24:28Did they hang up on you?
24:29No, they didn't.
24:30Okay.
24:30Because I was trying to be professional.
24:31I was in my 20s, trying to act like I was in my 40s, right?
24:35So I am the head of Def Jam on the West Coast, and I just want to let you know, we have a song called, this is how we do it,
24:41that I think would be great on your towels, because you know how they should have the little towels.
24:45This is how we do it.
24:46This could be your anthem.
24:47Can I send the record to you for you to just listen to?
24:50We figure out a way that we can clear.
24:52We own the master.
24:52There's a sample in it, so there's no problem.
24:54I went through the whole process, and they actually used it.
24:57Wow.
24:57So the Lakers gave you a nice little break then?
24:59They gave me a break by using it.
25:01You know, they paid us a little bit for it, but for the most part, that was part of marketing.
25:05That was part of, you know, us promoting Montel.
25:08Him working everywhere and traveling everywhere, going at that time, it was only two mediums.
25:13You either were on television or you were on the radio at that point.
25:17So we took him all around the world to the radio, had him do our little chitlin circuit as much as we could.
25:24You know, it was hard at the beginning, because you have to just kind of get people to understand.
25:29And this is a 6'8 guy who's dancing, and he does R&B, but he looks like he should be rapping.
25:35He's from L.A.
25:37So after a while, it just shot out, and there was nothing we can do.
25:41Did you have a jet pack on you after that?
25:43Like, was it your confidence was there?
25:45Because, I mean, again, to see that song and to see what it did, still lasting today, over 30, and now, like, you know, did it help you in your career, like, confidence-wise?
25:55It helped me, and it also helped them know that I know how to find a record.
25:59Yeah.
25:59So it helped me completely.
26:01After that, I started doing soundtracks.
26:03So they knew I knew how to, one, close an album because I was already doing admin.
26:07But, two, they also knew how to pick a record.
26:10So they started giving me more and more and more.
26:13And he ended up on a Nutty Professor soundtrack.
26:15Absolutely.
26:16What happened to the good soundtrack?
26:17Nobody makes any good ones anymore.
26:19I mean, we had the Wait and Exhale soundtrack.
26:21The Nutty Professor, like, where's the good soundtracks?
26:23Is that, like, a part of the business that disappeared, or am I not looking?
26:26It did kind of disappear, and part of it was, for several reasons, part of it was because some of the film companies wanted to own the records, right?
26:36So they would do deals to where they would own the majority of the records, which is not conducive for a label.
26:42And it got to a point to where it was just so expensive.
26:46Like, Nutty Professor 1 and 2, that was easy, a $2 million investment outside of marketing and promoting it.
26:54That was paying for all those artists to be on those albums, you know?
26:57Yeah.
26:57So it got to be expensive.
26:58And now, even now, when you think about movies, they don't do cross-promotion as much.
27:04Back then, you'd see Nutty Professor film, soundtrack, soundtrack on Def Jam Records.
27:10That would be a part of it.
27:11You go into the theater, you would see that.
27:13You don't see that anymore.
27:14Is that an opportunity, though?
27:15You mentioned disruption, right?
27:16Is that an opportunity for an entrepreneur to figure out how to do it?
27:19Isaac Hayes, I love this brother.
27:21Yes.
27:21He's the third.
27:22One of the reasons he came up with his career was he said he ditched trying to go out and be an artist.
27:26He started making music for film projects and things of that nature, and that's how he made his revenue.
27:30Do more people maybe should try to utilize that route?
27:32I think it's a healthy investment of your time.
27:37I think, yes, it is.
27:39You know, it works for some.
27:41Some can do it and some can't.
27:42He can produce and write and he can, you know, perform, so it's a lot easier for him.
27:47Yeah.
27:48And he has a great catalog.
27:50Yeah, he does.
27:50I get on to that all the time, man.
27:53I told you, I told Isaac, listen, Pursuit of a Pintmobile, I know it's a crazy name.
27:57It's one of my favorite songs of Isaac Hayes.
27:59I put it on, I just, jet fuel on my back.
28:01Yes.
28:01It goes up.
28:02When you hear the name Chris Brown, what comes to mind?
28:06I mean, you had mentioned him earlier.
28:07I didn't say his name because I wanted to wait for this particular question when you
28:09were talking about Oprah, but you had managed him, right?
28:12You helped Chris Brown and you helped America, the world, find out who his brother is.
28:18And, you know, managing an artist is very, very tough.
28:20Yes, it is.
28:20It's very tough.
28:21I know some matters is very hard.
28:22But when you hear his name and you see everything that he's done, everything he's been through,
28:26what comes to mind today?
28:27You know, it's so crazy.
28:28I have so many.
28:29But one of the first would be misunderstood.
28:32Misunderstood.
28:32Yes, one would be misunderstood because he's such a, like, literally, if you put him
28:39in any setting, God forbid, if it's children, you just see him melt into this, like, ball
28:46of love, right?
28:47But that's one word.
28:51But another would be just, like, a creative genius.
28:56He is really, really talented.
28:58More talented than people know now.
29:01Because when I was working with him, you know, he would fly and jump over tables and he'd fly
29:06through the sky in performances and stuff like that.
29:09That was his, he wanted to do that.
29:11But after a while, he realized that doing all of that didn't get him a Grammy, didn't
29:16get him any extra, you know, love or support.
29:20So he kind of scaled it back a little bit.
29:23But overall, I feel like he's misunderstood because he's an extremely talented guy.
29:28He was an 18-year-old when a lot of those things happened to him and to her.
29:33And it wasn't correct, it wasn't right, but he definitely has grown.
29:39He's put time into being a better person.
29:41He's put time into his children.
29:43His daughters and his son are adorable and he loves his family.
29:48But that would be one of the, two of the things that I would say.
29:52Creatively, there's, as an entertainer, there's not too many people who can touch him.
29:57Yeah, well, listen, he won a 2025 Grammy for Best, you know, R&B Album of the Year.
30:03When you saw that, you heard that he won, what was your reaction?
30:07I was happy.
30:08I text him, I text his team and say congratulations and it's about time, you know.
30:12We got one back in the day, I think it was 2012, for Fame Album.
30:16Yeah.
30:17But he's been doing this for a long time, you know, and he's only in his 30s.
30:23So, and he's still a purveyor of taste in the music industry, you know, when it comes to music
30:27and the direction of music.
30:29So, he has a long, long time ahead of him as well.
30:33Yeah.
30:33I read a quote, 2018 interview that you did and he's, you said that his mind goes a million
30:38miles a minute.
30:39Yeah.
30:40Chris Brown's mind, a million miles a minute.
30:41How does that translate into good business?
30:43How is he in business?
30:44Well, I can say this.
30:47He's, he creatively comes up with something probably every 20 minutes.
30:51Some idea that.
30:52That's a lot of stuff.
30:53It's a lot of stuff.
30:55And when I was, when he was younger, I had to spend time trying to occupy his mind with
31:00different creative things.
31:01He needed creative outlets.
31:02So, whether it was painting or basketball or having him look at movies about or read about
31:10Sam Cooke, Marvin Gaye, all the people, Michael Jackson for that matter, going into neighborhoods
31:15and learning their dances and being in, when, at that point, Crump was coming up.
31:19So, all he wanted to do was go to L.A. and Crump.
31:22So, at two in the morning, sometimes it was like, okay, that's when they're Crumpin'?
31:26Okay, I'm getting up.
31:27We're going Crumpin'.
31:27You know, but that, I think, you just got to occupy someone's mind like that.
31:33And if you, especially as a child, a lot of kids are misdiagnosed.
31:37They think, oh, this is a bad kid.
31:39He won't stay still in school or math.
31:41You know, he's not doing great in math, but creatively, he's under, in his book, drawing
31:46things, and he's writing out poems or she's writing out poems.
31:50Sometimes it just needs to be redirected.
31:52And for Chris, he fortunately had a mother and a family that nurtured his creativity and
31:59allowed him to be able to blossom and to be as great as he is now.
32:03Yeah, 100%.
32:03Shibuzi, what's it like working with him?
32:05I mean, he was at our Under 30 Summit out in Cincinnati.
32:09Phenomenal brother.
32:10I mean, he had the crowd rocking there.
32:13And, you know, you listen to this song every time I hear it.
32:15It has now chopped, right, tied for Billboard's Hot 100, right?
32:19It's tied with Lil Nas X's Old Town Road.
32:23Did you, when you heard that song, Expected, it's hard to predict the number one, right?
32:28But did you hear that it had potential or did you not see that it was going to be rocket fuel
32:33like that and it'll be number one?
32:34Well, I tell you, you know, that same question you asked me about This Is How We Do It,
32:39that feeling you get is called frision.
32:41You just feel it.
32:42I quest for it every day.
32:43I want it every day that something is going to happen.
32:46That feeling I got the first time I heard that record.
32:49And we were, you know, at that time we were pushing our A&R person.
32:52Close the album.
32:53It's taking you too long.
32:53Come on.
32:54We need to get the album in and put it out.
32:56And Shibuzi came with that record at the end and was like, oh, this is something I just
33:01did.
33:02See if you guys like it.
33:03First of all, everyone that heard the first time, see if you like it, you know.
33:09And we were like, no, no.
33:10Oh, yes, please.
33:13And we cleared the sample immediately.
33:14Fortunately, our sample clearance team knocked it out.
33:18And we knew.
33:20We knew it would be major.
33:21We knew it.
33:22It's his thriller, though, because the rest of his album is just as good.
33:26And it's not necessarily as novelty-ish as that record.
33:30It's a strong body of work.
33:32He, as a person, is just an amazing guy.
33:35What's going on behind the scenes at Empire or at any label?
33:38You've been at Def Jam, so you've seen records blow when those records start to catch fire
33:44like that.
33:44And you can see that it's viral.
33:46It's on TikTok.
33:47Everybody's using it.
33:48The commercial's like.
33:49What's happening behind the scenes?
33:50Are y'all pressing on types of getting placements?
33:52What's going on?
33:53We are constantly meeting and trying to make sure that we're opening, you know, filling
33:58up the void.
33:59Anything that is not being done, we're trying to fill that void, get tent poles, making
34:04sure that outside of Empire, right, because it's like a track meet.
34:08Once you hand the baton to management and to the agent and to everyone else, the publicist
34:14and everyone else, they have to run and still win the race.
34:18So after we saw it getting to a certain point and our team, Bria, was placing him everywhere,
34:24we were like, okay, let's get the whole squad.
34:27Let's get his whole team, his management team, which he's a part of range.
34:31Jared and Abbas are amazing managers.
34:33We all got on and just mapped it out, you know, and planned it.
34:36And all around the world, it wasn't just, like I said, going back to that major and, you
34:40know, independent situation with Empire.
34:43We had at least 70 people on a call trying to plan out what we're going to do for each
34:47territory.
34:48Is social media still relevant in that point?
34:51Yes.
34:51Because the algorithms have changed.
34:52Always relevant.
34:53It is.
34:54It's always relevant.
34:55What makes it still so impactful?
34:57Because you look, TikTok is still going through their issues, right?
35:00I mean, the algorithms have changed on Instagram.
35:01I don't know what they're doing.
35:02X, whatever.
35:03But, you know, what's going on with the social media thing that can impact?
35:07Because that's a major distribution channel for you guys now, right?
35:10And here we are in this very interesting environment, misinformation, disinformation,
35:15maybe people not trusting social media as much.
35:17Is maybe music immune from that?
35:19No, I won't say it's immune from it because, you know, it's open for every social media
35:25person or people to comment on and what have you.
35:29But it's important because, you know, like I said, at one point you could go to radio and
35:34you could go to television and you'd reach the masses, right?
35:37You'd saturate the market by being on radio.
35:39Well, everybody doesn't listen to radio.
35:41Everybody's not on Instagram.
35:43Everybody's not on FaceTime, Facebook.
35:45Everybody's not on, you know, TikTok.
35:47So you have to service each one to make sure that you're reaching every single person that
35:53at that moment.
35:54You never know what people are doing at the time.
35:56So you have to use social media to continue to saturate.
36:00Yeah, I know the funnel is kind of turned upside down, right?
36:02Again, getting back to the point where the stranglehold is loosened.
36:04And so if you had one way to do it, the funnel is coming out.
36:07Now it's turned upside down.
36:08Do you wish it go back to like that one?
36:12Because fragmentation, I'm thinking fragmentation, discoverability,
36:15like, listen, iTunes is great, right?
36:17But I have to go and search and I don't always see my favorite artists there.
36:21Like Larry Jew may pop up one day and then his next album may not, right?
36:24I don't know.
36:25And I don't mind searching.
36:27I come from the Dat Piff days, right?
36:28But I mean, that discoverability, the fragmentation, it is an issue for me.
36:33It could be, right?
36:34But at the same time, it also introduces you to things that you don't know about,
36:38that you fall in love with.
36:39Yeah.
36:39You know what I mean?
36:40So everything has a pro and con.
36:42But no, I don't want it to go back.
36:44I would like for it to all live in harmoniously.
36:47You know, I do want to support radio.
36:50Radio isn't as important in the breaking of an artist.
36:56It is part of the marketing of the artist.
36:58Yeah.
36:59Is that still true?
37:00Because there are local areas, like, I mean, I look up in a place like Columbus, Ohio, right?
37:04Their local radio up there is very, very powerful.
37:05A friend of mine who's a DJ.
37:07Yeah.
37:07But is radio, because radio, if you listen to Nielsen, they say for black America, radio
37:13is still important.
37:15Like, black America still relies on that.
37:17Now, I know black America is not, you know, music is bigger than just that particular community.
37:21But regardless, it's still an important part of the ecosystem, right?
37:26Is radio maybe people not appreciating it the same way?
37:29Because people love to hear themselves on the radio.
37:31Radio is still around.
37:32Like, I tell people, if the price is right, it's still on the air, right?
37:34It's because there's a demographic there.
37:36That won't.
37:36Radio is still important.
37:38But I guess it's not as important as far as breaking the artist, as you said.
37:42Can that go back, though?
37:44Like, can radio reach that?
37:45I think, I don't know about it going back, but I do feel like it has to kind of transform
37:50into something that can just be used in a different way.
37:53Like I said, it's marketing, right?
37:54So it is still valuable.
37:56Right.
37:56There is a need for it to saturate certain, especially the Bible Belt countries, or states.
38:02There are several places that, like you said, still want to have powerful radio stations.
38:07They still listen to radio now.
38:09But it's just how you use it when it comes to breaking an artist.
38:12Yeah.
38:13Yeah, it's different.
38:13Yeah, it's just different.
38:15One of the things that I was very impressed with, again, with your history is you had
38:20an idea.
38:21It was called Deaf Soul years ago, right?
38:23And Deaf Soul, you had this concept of taking hip-hop and, you know, not making or taking
38:29R&B songs and trying to differentiate them, right?
38:32Because, you know, if it was coming from Deaf Jam, it was an R&B, everybody just assumed
38:35it's a rap.
38:35So you come up with this idea of Deaf Soul, and a colleague of yours at the time stole
38:40the idea, went to management, and tried to take it for themselves, and then the boss
38:44heard, like, no, Tina already came up with this, and it made you be more protective of
38:50your ideas.
38:51Yes.
38:51How are you navigating corporate America after this happens to you?
38:54Are you, like, not talking to your colleagues anymore?
38:56You're not sharing your ideas?
38:57Because we all have to share ideas from time to time, but what is happening to you, and
39:01how does that shape you to still get to where you are?
39:03Because that can be a demoralizing situation, especially if that person goes with that idea,
39:07which sometimes happens, right, and gets that job.
39:10Like, you're looking back like, no, that was mine.
39:12How did you, what changed?
39:13How did you navigate from then on out?
39:15I mean, I usually, at this, after that, I realized that I needed to trademark my ideas
39:20before I gave out the idea, as well as I'm more selective about who I talk to about the
39:25vision, you know, because that person, I knew that person was someone that would take an
39:30idea, but I just trusted them in that moment, because I was so excited about the idea that
39:35I came up with.
39:36But yeah, it just made me a little more apprehensive and selective on who I share that idea with.
39:41Yeah, and did you develop any trait along the way that maybe helped you in your career
39:46climb?
39:47From that?
39:48Yeah.
39:49You know, there's a saying that Chris Slider used to tell me all the time.
39:53Bless his life, yeah.
39:54Yes, bless his life.
39:56To fly below radar when you're ready to pop up, have something to show, or when something
40:00great happens, pop up so that they can see what you're doing.
40:04But go back below radar and build below radar so that they don't stop you from where you're
40:08trying to get.
40:09Yeah, that's powerful.
40:10I remember something like, George Clinton said something like that, but he was very
40:14different.
40:14He said every time he had success, he was like, you know, going to the bathroom.
40:17You go to the bathroom, you do number two, flush it, and then you leave, right?
40:21That was how you looked at it, right?
40:22Don't try to stare at it.
40:23You're not staring at it.
40:24Flush it down and like, it's over, keep it going, right?
40:27Colorful way, but it was still effective.
40:29Different way to say it.
40:30Different way to say it.
40:31I like that.
40:31I'd rather use my version.
40:33That's what I'm saying.
40:34I like your version, too, but sometimes I need the George Clinton.
40:36I understand.
40:37Anything in store as far as the future?
40:39What's going on for 2025, 2026 when it comes to Empire?
40:43What are you guys doing?
40:44What's interesting?
40:45What do people have to look out for?
40:47We're including, we're continuing to expand our global footprint.
40:51We have offices in the U.K., in South Africa, Nigeria.
40:59We have offices in, like I said, the U.K., San Francisco.
41:03And we're just really kind of building out other parts and other genres that we have.
41:08A lot of people thought that Empire was just hip-hop for a long time until Shibuzi broke.
41:13And they were like, oh, you guys do country.
41:14We've been doing country.
41:15Cain Brown was at Empire before he went to Columbia.
41:18There were several artists that were already there prior that were doing things other than hip-hop.
41:23So we're continuing to expand.
41:25We have incredible rock groups that are coming down the pipeline.
41:28But we're working hard on trying to make sure that people understand that we're not just, one, that we're not a part of a major,
41:36because a lot of people think we're a part of a major, and we are not.
41:38We are solely independent.
41:40I saw a gentleman the other day say that.
41:43We were a part of a major, and we're no longer an independent because we're distributed by Universal.
41:47We have never been distributed by Universal.
41:49There are three people who are at the top, and that's me, Ghazi, and Nima.
41:53And there are no board of directors.
41:55We move, we're liquid, we are able to move when we need to.
41:59But for the most part, we're just trying to expand and show people what we have.
42:02Yeah.
42:03If you are a music entrepreneur, someone who maybe have a project or something,
42:06and they see Tina Davis walking down the street, hey, you did the Forbes show, right?
42:10The Enterprise is on, and they see you, and they want to give you a project.
42:12What do you want to hear?
42:13I know you're one of those individuals where you like to feel it.
42:17You want to hear.
42:17You want those goosebumps, right?
42:19Analytics player part two.
42:20Yes.
42:20I do understand that, but what do you want to hear from that project that's going to make you jump?
42:24I want to hear that they are, one, they have a direction, and they're talking about something that will be important to the world, right?
42:31Because for me, I feel like A&R, it has a lot to do with the psychology and the sociology of that person and the things that they represent.
42:38Yeah.
42:38And I want to hear great records.
42:41I don't want to hear one record and then the rest of them are album cuts.
42:44I need to hear at least four.
42:45Four.
42:46If you give me ten, I want four good ones.
42:49Because sometimes with virality, you find somebody that breaks on TikTok, and all of a sudden you're like,
42:55oh, this is so amazing, it's doing great, and then you listen to four other records, you're like, oh, but ooh, that's, the rest of it is not great.
43:02Yeah.
43:02I want to see, because I can't just take it from the music.
43:05I've got to see you in action.
43:06I want to see a video.
43:07I want to see you actually performing.
43:10Yeah.
43:10You know what I mean?
43:10I need to see that.
43:11Stage presence.
43:12Stage presence.
43:13Yeah.
43:13And you know, and you might not be great at it, but I want to see you try.
43:16Absolutely.
43:16You know what I mean?
43:17When I found Chris, he had stage presence.
43:19He wasn't great, but we did artist development to get him to that point to where he is now.
43:23So it's just shining up that diamond and that star.
43:27Yeah, absolutely.
43:28Look ahead now, some closed questions, right?
43:30Concise, quick.
43:32Start with the million dollar question, right?
43:33I think you know how you made your first million, right?
43:36In music, right?
43:36You can't manage an artist like Chris Brown and not have a million dollars.
43:40I refuse to believe it.
43:41How did you spend your first million?
43:43On a home.
43:43On a home.
43:44I told you, real estate.
43:45Yeah, real estate.
43:46Well, you wouldn't do anything different then.
43:47Uh-uh.
43:48I love that.
43:48No.
43:49I love that.
43:49So no regrets.
43:50Gen AI, when you hear the phrase, what comes to mind?
43:52Again, music is people talking about it.
43:55It has the ability to copy people, make music its own.
43:58Like, when you hear that phrase, what comes to mind?
44:01Copyright.
44:02Why copyright?
44:03Because it's important that we figure out how to monetize it and make sure that everyone
44:08who the AI is pulling from is being paid.
44:12It's not removing the talent.
44:14It's not removing the writer and the producer or, for that matter, the actor, the actress.
44:20It's just supplementing as opposed to removing.
44:24Yeah.
44:24Look around the world, right?
44:26And if you had to pick a country where you would invest in, not Tina Davis, the empire
44:30president, but Tina Davis, you.
44:32What country, what continent would that be?
44:34Africa.
44:35Africa.
44:35Yeah, I figure Afro Beats is big.
44:37You already knew that.
44:38That's why I said it was probably Africa.
44:40Africa, 100%.
44:42Absolutely.
44:42Forrest B.L.K., we have our leadership platform, a great platform here.
44:45What do you have top three books that have inspired you to perform your best or motivated
44:50you?
44:51Purpose Driven Life would be one.
44:54And Thick-Faced Blackheart.
44:59That's another that was very, very important.
45:02And Who Moved My Cheese?
45:05I love that.
45:05Spencer Johnson, Who Moved My Cheese?
45:07Peaks and Volleys, The President.
45:09I love Spencer.
45:10I gave that to my 11-year-old.
45:12I said, you got to read this book.
45:13Everybody has to read that book at least once.
45:15It's about adaptability.
45:15It is.
45:16And it's a short read.
45:17Absolutely.
45:17But it really helps.
45:18I read it in the bookstore and then I went to go buy it.
45:20Exactly.
45:20It was in Marginal Bookstore.
45:22That's good.
45:22Close you out on this.
45:23My favorite business book, Good to Great, and take you back to your former roots.
45:28What's the difference between a good A&R and a great one?
45:32A great A&R understands that psychology and sociology is important.
45:38A great A&R doesn't wear their heart on their sleeves and doesn't take anything personal
45:43because it could be pretty tough dealing with an artist when they're in that vulnerable
45:47state in the recording process and trying to pull things out of them when the whole world
45:51is happening around them, good or bad, depending on when they come in that studio, how they're
45:55feeling.
45:56You still have to be able to pull that off.
45:58A great A&R is knowing and networking within the industry, knowing what's coming.
46:04Being able to know where music is going in the next six months to a year is the ear of
46:09a great A&R person.
46:10I love it.
46:11I love it.
46:11Now you might be going home and wanting to watch Crest Groove.
46:13And so I can learn how to be in A&R.
46:15Maybe find me at Motel Jordan and I'll be right next to you.
46:18And off is right, Jabari Young, co-president of Empire.
46:20I like the sound of it.
46:21That sounds good.
46:21That sounds very good.
46:23I'm not mad at it.
46:23I love it.
46:24Tina, thank you so much for the time, the insight.
46:26I really appreciate it.
46:27Good luck.
46:28The rest of the way at Empire.
46:29I'm sure you guys are going to be doing some major stuff, bar song, part two, you know,
46:33all that stuff over there.
46:34I appreciate your time.
46:35Absolutely.
46:36Enterprise Zone here at the NASDAQ, Tina Davis Empire.