Join Bartholomew Hall as we sit down with Sittingbourne FC chairman Maurice Dunk as the player-turned businessman looks back on a remarkable season for the non-league side.
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00:00Hello, and welcome to Invictus Sport, the only show on your TV dedicated to all of Kent's
00:17sporting action. I'm Bartholomew Hall, and in today's episode we're speaking with Morris
00:22Dunk, the chairman of Sittingbourne FC, who turned from fan to player to the big boss.
00:28Hope you enjoy.
00:29Morris joins me here in the studio now. Good to have you on the programme, because you've
00:34got a really interesting story. I think Sittingbourne as a club has a really interesting story,
00:38and it looks like it's got a lot ahead of it as well. I wanted to start by asking about
00:42the first time you came to Sittingbourne, because it was your dad who brought you along.
00:45Yeah, my dad brought me along, as he did in the days. In the 60s, he took me to my first
00:50game there, and it was the first semi-professional game where there's proper stands and everything
00:56going on and a good crowd. It quite inspired me. He knew I was mad about football. I was
01:02out playing every single day at the local park. I was very young. I should imagine it's
01:06the middle to late 60s sort of thing. World Cup fever was about, I should think, and all
01:12that sort of thing. Yeah, it inspired me to want to carry on playing football. I was fortunate
01:19enough, thanks to him, to actually play for a little bit. Mostly in the reserve team in
01:24the 70s, but it was a good family club. Part of the town, and part of the structure of
01:29the town, it was very much in the centre of the town. It was right opposite Woolworths
01:34up an alleyway. It was an old-school stadium in them days. It kind of inspired the local
01:39lads like me to want to play for them. Even spending two or three years there, mainly
01:44as a reserve player, it was just great.
01:47I know that's something that you're very keen to keep as part of the club nowadays, get
01:51that community spirit in. I want to talk all about that, but keeping in the 60s, what
01:55was the kind of figures like back then in terms of people going to the games?
01:58Well, it was amazing because the population was about half of what it is now. I think
02:02about 30,000 sitting born. We were getting crowds of 1,000. I remember even reserve team
02:08games, 500 people turning up to watch. It's always been a big football town. It's supported
02:13with the factories, a lot of good sides of different levels. It's been a hotbed for football
02:18sitting born for many, many years. It was all part of the community. Cinema Football
02:25was right in the middle of the town. It opened its doors for rock bands and things on a Thursday
02:30night and you could go there for a drink and stuff like that. It was a place to be, really.
02:35It inspired a lot of local people. It was run by, just as it is now, local businesses
02:41getting involved and local people getting involved, ex-players getting involved. A lot
02:46of similarities you can see. It's just there wasn't so much to detract you from then, all
02:52the things you can do now. But being in the town, it was handy because your other halves
02:58can go shopping or whatever and come back and meet you at halftime or the end of the
03:03game.
03:04Yes, definitely. Then you mentioned that you went on to play for the side as well. What
03:09did that mean to you?
03:10It meant everything to me, probably more to my dad. I was probably not at that level,
03:15to be honest. They need two teams, they need reserves, they need good... It's a mixture
03:21of that sort of level. It's always been semi-professional but you have amateurs playing in semi-professional
03:27just as some of them are paid. You need two good squads. It was nice to be part of it.
03:33It was around guys I knew coming through the ranks and playing for different teams. It
03:37was very much a local side all the time.
03:40Was that the dream then, to be a footballer? Because afterwards you ended up with a career
03:44in law and a businessman.
03:46Yes, I suppose we all do, don't we? It was football and cricket for me. I obviously wanted
03:52to be either Geoff Hurst scoring the winning goals or Freddie Truman opening the bowl for
03:57England. I suppose there were a lot of boys like that at the time. There were not too
04:01many other distractions. Sport and music have been my life, to be honest. Business, 50 years
04:08working, has its moments but it's what you do outside of work that matters to a lot of
04:15people.
04:16Did you have any big heroes growing up playing football in the 70s?
04:20Playing football in the 70s, everybody. I followed into the City. I was watching City
04:27Bourne but I was also an Arsenal fan so a big fan of the double team. That was about
04:31the time I had just started work in London so I could get to see some of those games.
04:36A lot of those around the 70s, 71s. Arsenal, I suppose it was John Radford's and Charlie
04:42George's I wanted to be there or play cricket for Kent. None of it's possible but it's every
04:47school boy's dream to play for their local side, City Bourne and then go on from there.
04:53But of course, at all levels, football and sport, it is a business and you have to make
04:58a bit of money for it to keep it going. Before becoming chairman of City Bourne you had a
05:03few other ventures with some sports clubs. Tell me about that.
05:06When you know you're not going to make it as a professional yourself, you still stay
05:11with local football. I stayed with my local teams for, well my Sunday club in Old Oak
05:17was for 30 years and we were playing Sunday league football and Saturday league county
05:23standard football. A notch or two below City Bourne but it's still the same thing, the
05:29passion from the local people. For me, the only problem in our area was the level of
05:37the grounds and things kept deteriorating until it got to the 90s and I started to get
05:43really, when we were closing down changing rooms and closing down toilets on grounds
05:49and it was more difficult to stay in a league because you needed basic facilities to play
05:54basic football. So I tried to work with the local authority to keep them up to standard
06:00and to actually get some funding in for them because I've been a good on grants sort of
06:04man and things like that. And then the opportunity came over to me 24 years ago to take over
06:11the Woodstock which was Shell Research and they'd sold it and various owners over the
06:16years and they needed someone to run the sports grounds, social grounds. Originally it was
06:23part time while I was working, we got 4 or 5 pitches there so I've been running football
06:28there for the community for 24 years now. Incredible stuff. And we got a team collectively
06:37up to the standard just below City Bourne so we were playing in Step 5 which is also
06:43semi-pro but it's just out of the full pro sort of circuit. So we got there and then
06:50come back to me because City Bourne came to me 13 years ago and said we're in trouble
06:56where we are, can we come and play because I'd recently put in a new stand and floodlights
07:01so we met the criteria for what they needed and they come to me and said they had some
07:07financial problems as all these clubs do because everything you raise for clubs at this level
07:12so it goes into the team. And they said to me can you help us because we're in a bit
07:18of a scrape. So they came to me, asked me to be chairman and 13 years later I'm still
07:23here. I think a tug on the heart strings of being an ex-player and watching it as a dad
07:29and my friend's dad's being season ticket holders and it's right through your blood
07:33and my family before me all supported City Bourne and once it's in your blood you can't
07:40get it out. It's a common story with these non-league clubs that take over a town that
07:45becomes part of the culture there. It's also a story that we've seen again and again with
07:52non-league clubs that used to get thousands and thousands of people coming in through
07:56the gates and then we see in the late 80s, early 90s that sort of decline. What is it
08:00you think that's happened over the past 50 years for non-league clubs? I think it's exactly
08:04the same as a professional club. The standard's gone up but actually the cost of it has gone
08:09up so you can have a non-league pro earning very good money so you need to raise money
08:14to get the sponsorship. So what I did 23 years ago when I took over the Woodstock,
08:18I set that up as a community amateur sports club because it does everything else, funerals
08:23and weddings and all things like that. So that was basically a charity and then when
08:27City Bourne came to me 13 years ago they'd had trouble with being shareholder club and
08:33all the rest of it so I got them to be limited by guarantee and no shareholders. So again
08:39I've got 24 years now of non-profit sports club. So basically what we can raise through
08:45sponsorship and people coming through the gate for City Bourne goes to City Bourne but
08:49it's also a community hub. We do loads of other stuff. We've got camera clubs there
08:53and all sorts of things. There's a drama group there and we open for Sunday lunches.
08:59I mean two thirds of what goes on there is non-football and we're really in the middle
09:03of that community. And that's how I saw it back in the 60s looking, being in the town.
09:09So we're a little bit further out of the town but we are still a central hub for the
09:14community. Absolutely. Talk to me about 2013 then when you took over. Obviously former
09:20player, former fan, everything sort of came together for you. It did and we were in a
09:26little bit of a difficult circumstance. The crowds had diminished to about 100 a week
09:31and we had to bring in some extra stuff. We got one of the stands up from the old
09:36ground to increase what we were doing there. And generally it's been a 13 year experience
09:42and every year we've increased those crowds from 100 to 120. Not big jumps the following
09:49year 130, 140, 150. Up until last year we were averaging 330 and this year we've actually
09:57gone through the roof and do that. We've got about 10 crowds this year over 500 and
10:02400 and things like that. So gradual growth in this business is the best thing you can
10:08do. Gradually getting more sponsors in, getting more local people involved and building up
10:12the crowd, getting the children. We've got 40 youth teams, they come to watch the games
10:18and create something that's gradually grown the right way, slowly but surely. So it is
10:27a story. I have to look back sometimes and pinch myself to see where you've come from
10:31that first day that they walked in a bit dejected and saying we're virtually out of business.
10:38Basically that's what it is. It is a business. And it's a people business. We've got to get
10:43people through the door. Whether they're coming for Sunday lunch or they're coming to watch
10:46the game, we need to get people through the door all the time. And get local businesses
10:50to sponsor us. We've done very well with the two local business hubs, there's Kent Science
10:55Park and the Eurolink Estate. But we run a business group ourselves, so a lot of small
11:00companies, accountants and that come to the club once a month and exchange business and
11:05we're part of that too. Fantastic. Well, we're going to go to a break shortly because I want
11:10to hear afterwards about all your plans for the future. But just quickly, what's been
11:14your biggest lesson learned as chairman? The lesson learned as chairman is to get good
11:19people around you. Good volunteers because basically it's a volunteer business. We have
11:24to hire professional people to do specialist stuff. But really, to be part of the community,
11:29you've got to have those local people. They've got the same vision. They're not interested
11:33in profit. They just want a club that actually is for the town and is out there saying Sydenborn
11:40Football Club, 140 years next year. Hand on your heart, show the badge, all that sort
11:45of thing. That's what it's about. Passion. It's about passion. One word, passion. Passion.
11:50Well, we're going to head to a break now. We'll have plenty more from Morris after this.
12:05Hello and welcome back to Invicta Sports on KMTV. Here's part two of our interview with
12:11Morris Dunk, the Sydenborn FC chairman. Morris Dunk joins us back in the studio again. It's
12:17been a good chat so far about your story and how you got into the club and became chairman
12:22from player to fan to being the man in charge. I want to talk about grounds. I want to talk
12:28about stadiums because it's something that Sydenborn has seen a few of in its time. When
12:32you took over, the club was in Bourne Park at the time. It wasn't a great time financially
12:38for the club. Where did you go from there? Well, it wasn't a great time for the club
12:42because they sold that. I spoke about the old ball ground, which was right in the middle
12:47of the town. They sold that. It moved slightly out towards where the brick fields are in
12:53Mercer. That's where the brick is and always have been because there were brick fields
12:57there. They moved to a stadium. They had shareholders then that had ideas of getting into the football
13:03league. They pushed for it too quick. It's the thing with finance. They didn't need the
13:09sort of people running you there with that ambition. They needed a boring, tight accountant
13:13like me to look after it. There were some problems there. They moved on to Bourne Park
13:18and again, they struggled there. When I picked up on it, they were really on their knees.
13:24It had actually come to me at the end of 130 years. It couldn't happen. We couldn't let
13:33it happen. It was blackmail, but it was the thing to do. I had to do it. I couldn't have
13:42it on my conscience. Boring accountants, steady growth year on year and that's what we've
13:51done. Where they are now, they probably need that big stadium now.
13:58It's been a game changer. We'll talk about the FA Trophy glory in just a moment's time.
14:04It's been a fortress for this team over time, but it's had its own fair share of issues
14:09over time.
14:10Yes, sure. It was just an open field really when I got there with three or four football
14:14pitches. The first thing I did with ambition, I've always had ambition. I used to build
14:18football grounds out of Lego bricks. When I started, just before Sint Maarten joined
14:25me, I just put in a brand new stand with 150 seats and floodlighting in because we were
14:30nurturing a team up to the level below Sint Maarten. There wasn't too much to do to make
14:35that change. My ambition and their ambition was in a good place. They were down to the
14:42rock bottom and I wanted to take things higher. It was a good marriage. We've developed Woodstock
14:49not on the par of what their Central Park stadium was, but we've got it back to a decent
14:54level. It's strange because we could probably do with Central Park now on because we could
14:59probably fill it with 5,000 fans at times.
15:02Well, this is your ambition, isn't it? Because you're becoming a bit of a politician almost
15:06in recent days, maybe not. But the Highstead Park, this whole development that has caused
15:12a bit of a ruckus with councils and the like, part of it is to bring in this new stadium
15:19for yourselves. What would that mean?
15:21It would mean everything. It would put us on the map. It could actually make us one
15:24of the most powerful non-league clubs in the county because we've got the structure there,
15:29we just need the ground there. And this has been talked about since 24 years ago. It was
15:34talked about because this is a road-driven scheme that's come in. So when Shell sold
15:40it, the various owners we've had over the years have always wanted a motorway junction
15:45there so they can expand the business. It's obviously that. And probably 24 years ago,
15:50that probably wasn't appropriate at the time, but it is now because the town is snarled
15:55up and the rest of it. And so all the land through there, the Science Park owned with
16:01some farmers as well. And on the back of it, where we are now would be either school or
16:07one of the medical centres. And we'd move just a little bit up the road to nearer the
16:13motorway. And nearer the junction would be good for us because we're playing national
16:18football stuff now. So anywhere nearer the M2 would be great for us. But because we're
16:23a community club, there's no shareholders, no profit. It'll be a 125-year lease for the
16:29community. I don't own it. Nobody owns it. But we can't. The way we're structured, the
16:35Woodstock itself is a charitable sports charity. Cinnabon itself is limited by guarantee. There's
16:40no shareholders. So basically, any developer is looking to invest in the town and hopefully
16:47invest in the other things they said, which I think is four schools, two medical centres,
16:52some country parks. Comes at a cost. There will be some houses, but we're very much behind
16:57with the houses as well. So locally, we probably need this for the next 20 years. It was always
17:04going to be such a big scheme that it would have been called in regardless, I think, if
17:08it hadn't been passed by the council, there would have been an appeal by the landowners
17:13and I think anyway. So whatever government was in place, they were looking at an appeal
17:19of some sort.
17:20So we'll have to wait and see if it does go ahead. But let's talk about the FA Trophy
17:24then. It's come to an end now.
17:26Amazing.
17:27What an amazing run for Ryan Maxwell and the team.
17:30Well, Ryan joined us a couple of years ago when we were having a little bit of a sticky
17:34patch. We were going a little bit off piste of our growing every year and we were kind
17:39of languishing towards the bottom and we needed an injection of enthusiasm and Ryan turned
17:44up. He not only saved us that year, but he moved us right up the league and he started
17:49beating all the teams above us and we could see his passion match mine and the other directors.
17:55I've got a very passionate vice chairman that gets all the money in from sponsorship and
18:00stuff and he matched that. He kept us up that year. We started beating all the teams that
18:03were in the playoff and he said, well, if I'm around next year, we'll make the playoffs
18:07and we did. And then that year he said, well, we've made the playoffs. We didn't win and
18:13get that promoted, but next year we'll get up. And you could see that from these little
18:19two and a half years he's been there. He's matched our passion. It's a great feeling.
18:23People of the town love him because he's an Irishman with a lot of passion. I'm part Irish
18:28as well. And we share this sort of same desire for the people and it's all about the people.
18:34The fans absolutely adore him because of what he's done. And this year, the FA Cup, we started
18:40really well and knocked out people like Dover and that. We couldn't do it. They were a league
18:45above us and they were winning it at the time. They were top of the league. And then in the
18:48FA Trophy, we just knocked out teams from above. So people that don't understand professional
18:53non-league, there's four tiers of it. And we're the bottom tier at four and we started
18:58knocking out level three teams and then level two teams and then level one teams. And it
19:04was quite incredible. Southend was the big one, wasn't it? Southend United, a previous
19:08team that was in the football league for years, a giant of English football. And step one
19:14means they need to get in the playoffs or win that and they're full-time professional
19:18and they will go back in the league. And I'm sure the league would love them because they
19:22have crowds of 12,000 sometimes watching them. And if you think of Southend, it's three
19:27and a half times the size of City Mall. It's City status. So it really was the big boys
19:31for us to come there. And apparently we had no hope being step four. And I think to get
19:38that level, we went on to the quarterfinal. After that, as you know, it was a very emotional
19:43day for us. We took 1,100 people. 1st February 2025 will go down in history. In 140 years,
19:52next year. And it was 24 years to the day of me taking over Woodstock. So it was a huge
19:58day for me. And looking at it as the club to go there and to win in such a way with
20:041,100 people from the town there. And some of those had never been to a football match.
20:08What's happening with the City Mall? We must go and watch. So they all came to Southend.
20:12I actually wanted Southend because I had a few connections there. I wanted Southend.
20:17And to go to 97 minutes of football to score in the 96th minute to win 1-0 and to score
20:27at the end where our fans are. And the old thing in professional football, in the last
20:31minute you're sent forward, takes the ball down to the corner flag. The referee blows
20:35the whistle and the stand behind there with probably the eight, seven or 800 of our fans
20:41just erupted. And there's some incredible photos for the day. I couldn't give an interview
20:47like this on the day because I was in floods of tears. Because everything was just so emotional
20:52for everybody. I know we've had a lot of, you know, we had Maidstones run in the FA Cup
20:56last year. It does a lot for a club, doesn't it? To be able to have the eyes on the club.
21:02The money that comes from those type of wins as well. Absolutely. But more than the money
21:07it puts you on the map. I think after the Southend game, our social media was hit by
21:13something like 900, almost a million hits from up and down the country. People said
21:18Sidney Moore, Sidney Moore, where's that? Well I've never heard of it, where are they?
21:21And we're on the map. So it's really that. Southend was a huge day and then we had to
21:27try and manage, because the rules of this competition, regardless of your level four
21:32and we got a capacity of 1,600 at Woodstock, you have to play the game at home. So you
21:38had to meet loads of requirements. Extra stuff coming in for the Aldershot game. But we did
21:45it. We proved as a club and a community that we can handle, what we want is to go up one
21:51league, but we're already competing three leagues above. So, you know, for us it was
21:57an amazing, emotional roller coaster for everybody. From the lady on the gate that
22:02takes the tickets right through to me. The fans have been amazing at Sittingbourne. The
22:07same fans that turned up 13 years ago. Half of the 100 people that turn up every week,
22:1250, are hardcore ultras, and I mean that in the nicest way. Not ultras because of troublemakers.
22:18They come everywhere. I tip up a Tuesday night game away in Guernsey and there's 50 there.
22:23I've taken flights there to play, to watch the game. If I said we were bussed tomorrow
22:29and we're closing down, they'd chain themselves to the gate. I couldn't do it. I do it for
22:33those people and so does Maxwell. Ryan, he's shared the passion, he's in with the supporters
22:39and we're just one really happy club these last few years and we're hoping to carry it
22:44forward.
22:45Well Marius, just before we wrap up, I just wanted to ask, it's a question we ask all
22:49our guests here on Invicta Sport. If you could talk to your younger self, maybe that
22:52fan who went along to those games under the FUD lights, what would you say now?
22:56I'd say keep the dream, keep the passion and stick with it. It's your hometown team. You've
23:02been there as part of your life, all your life. I've been on the planet 70 years. My
23:08father the same, his father. Just carry it on. There's people there now watching it that
23:14had the misfortune to watch me play, but there's still the passion. They say to me, you weren't
23:19the best player, but what you're doing now and what your fellow directors and the fans
23:23and everybody are doing is to just be part of something and it's our town. I love our
23:28town regardless and it's to be part of that, a big part of that.
23:32Well Marius, thank you very much for joining us on the programme. It's been a pleasure.
23:35Thank you very much.
23:36That's full time on today's episode. You can watch all episodes of Invicta Sport over
23:40on our website, kmtv.co.uk. We'll see you next time.
23:48Bye.