Bryan Enslein, co-founder at Global Build Collaborative, joined "Forbes Newsroom" to discuss the dismantling of USAID and the unintended consequences the cuts to the agency have had on American businesses and the country's standing around the world.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me now
00:07is Brian Enslein, co-founder of Global Build Collaborative. Brian, thank you so much for
00:11joining me. Hi, thanks for having me here. Within the past couple of months, the US Agency
00:17for International Development has really been in President Trump and the Trump administration's
00:22crosshairs. The State Department announced last week that they are going through with
00:26plans to essentially dissolve the agency and then reorganize parts of it to the State
00:31Department. To start off the conversation, I know you have worked with USAID. Can you
00:36talk to us about that partnership, what that work looked like?
00:40Sure. Global Build Collaborative is a veteran-owned engineering firm. We plan, manage, oversee
00:49construction programs. We have projects, water projects in Ethiopia, road projects in Bangladesh.
00:55We work with national parks in Uganda. We work in municipalities in Ecuador, and we
01:00oversee USAID general construction in DRC, or at least we used to. Our role is to make
01:06sure that projects are done safely, that they're done efficiently, and that they are built
01:12to last. We typically focus on small-scale rural construction that supports a larger
01:18an example might be a construction of a tuberculosis ward in DRC that is part of a larger health project.
01:31Can you talk about just how long you've been working with USAID? Has this work been
01:36since President Trump's first term? Talk to us about that experience.
01:41Sure. Prior to starting GVC, I was a Foreign Service Officer with USAID. I worked there
01:47for eight years. I left in 2018 and then started GVC in 2019. During the first Trump administration,
01:56there was an effort that I think was done well to combat China's encroachment in Africa,
02:01Asia, and South America. It takes a long time for these projects to develop, so most of
02:06the programs that we were working on were developed under that mindset, which I thought
02:11was a well-focused approach. What's wild now is that when you hear about these projects
02:17being canceled, the Chinese are actually taking over some of the projects that were
02:22developed during that time.
02:25That's really interesting, and I think that could be one of those unintended consequences
02:29that people are seeing with the shuttering of USAID. When you hear that, when you hear
02:34that China is taking over these projects that the United States started, what's your reaction?
02:41So I've heard about projects in Cambodia. I've heard about projects in Nepal. I've heard
02:45about projects in Colombia, where the Chinese are working with the local counterparts, working
02:50with local businesses to complete projects that USAID started. So for example, there's
02:55I think a project in Nepal where there was either schools or some types of buildings
02:59that were being built. It was almost completed, and then once the projects were terminated,
03:04there was no more work being done that was funded by USAID. The Chinese then basically
03:08paid for these projects to be completed and then put their own stickers and signs up on
03:13the projects. So suddenly you have schools that were primarily built by USAID and then
03:17suddenly being claimed by China. If you're saying that USAID's funding fraud is wasteful,
03:24if projects are not worthwhile, it's why then would China be so happy to take these projects
03:29over and be paying for them themselves?
03:32And what do you think about that argument that the USAID, that's getting cut because
03:37we're finding waste, fraud and abuse in that? Is that the case? Because you have been working
03:42on these projects since President Trump's first term. So under that guise, wouldn't
03:48it be waste, fraud and abuse then too?
03:52So I don't think I realized before I started working with USAID, how the government works
03:58really and especially how USAID works. So when we work with USAID, we have to report
04:04up to a technical program officer. So they're the ones that is called a COR. They're the
04:08ones that actually oversee what is going on with the project as far as the details
04:12are concerned. We then have to report also to a contracting officer to make sure we follow
04:16contracts. We then also have to provide invoices to a finance officer to make sure that our
04:21invoices are done correctly. We then submit reports that are weekly, monthly, quarterly
04:27reports to make sure that everything we're doing is done correctly. I think that USAID,
04:35they really make sure that we are spending the US government's money correctly. If you
04:39don't like what USAID is spending money on, you need to talk to Congress because they're
04:43the ones that tell USAID how to spend their money. It's Congress who then instructs USAID
04:48saying this is what you need to be doing. And USAID is the one that actually does it.
04:52And now USAID is getting shuttered. This is what Secretary of State Marco Rubio said,
04:57quote, Thanks to President Trump, this misguided and fiscally irresponsible era is now over.
05:03We are reorienting our foreign assistance programs to align directly with what is best
05:07for the United States and our citizens. What's your reaction to how he characterized USAID
05:14compared to your experience? And what's your reaction to the news overall?
05:19So I think the State Department does a good job with collecting information, with conducting
05:26diplomacy internationally. I think like any government department, there can be improvements
05:32made with the State Department, like there could have been improvements made with USAID.
05:36The State Department doesn't run programs. They don't have people who are technical that
05:42can say how to install a well. They don't have people who are technical who can say
05:46how to provide foodstuff to people during famine. And so I think by firing everyone
05:52at USAID, you're losing a lot of wisdom. You're losing a lot of expertise that you're going
05:58to have to rehire. I'm not sure if if the State Department can handle contracts that
06:03USAID has. I think the equivalent would be like if you ask Google to start making cars.
06:09I'm sure one day Google can start making cars, but you're going to have to hire people from
06:12the car companies start doing. I spoke with a CEO of a small business earlier
06:17this week. His name's Keith Ives. And he essentially said, I don't know by June 1st if I'm going
06:23to have a business anymore. With USAID shuttering, they've completely cut most of my contracts
06:29out. It's like essentially doing surgery with an ax. What is the impact this is going to
06:35have on your business? We had four contracts cut as of I think it
06:42was March 1st. There was a memo that went to Congress that had a list of active contracts.
06:49This is after Marco Rubio said that 83% of contracts have been terminated and that all
06:54the terminations have been finalized. The memo then went to Congress. It had a list
06:58of the active projects and a list of the terminated projects. We had one project that was on the
07:03list of active projects. Unfortunately, the next day that project was then terminated
07:07as well. So as of right now, we have no revenue source. We had to unfortunately terminate
07:14all our subcontracts. We had to let go of our workers, all of our employees, some of
07:20which have been here with us for almost five years. It's been a rough couple of months.
07:26As far as opportunities, our expertise is construction with the federal government.
07:33We don't know what opportunities there are going to be in the next three months. We don't
07:37know what opportunities there are going to be in the next six months with how much turbulence
07:40there's been. I'm not sure if we'll be here in July as well. So it's been rough going
07:47so far. It's going to be even more difficult to try to reestablish what we we created over
07:52the last five years.
07:54I think what's missing then from the national conversation, from the international conversation
07:58really is what you're saying, is that how the around the world, how the globe looks
08:04at America through the lens of USAID. Can you touch on that?
08:08Sure. I think when USAID does its job properly, you don't hear about in America. I think the
08:14best way you can look at USAID is a bet on the future. It's a small amount of money.
08:20Well, I'm sorry. It's not a small amount of money. It's a lot of money, but it's small
08:23compared to the consequences. For example, USAID might put a million dollars towards
08:29building schools in Lebanon. And that is to combat Hezbollah building schools in Lebanon
08:35and Hezbollah then having their influence on students. In Liberia, you might say it's
08:40a bet that building clinics and training doctors will help us identify the next Ebola outbreak.
08:46And that is better identified in Liberia, I think, than in the shores of America. In
08:50the DRC, we are working to build some roads and improve the private sector. And so that's
08:56a way for U.S. companies to then get resources out of the DRC and improve American lives.
09:02I think those are all things that it's worth spending money on a bet for USAID than having
09:09the consequences that might cost trillions of dollars in wars and famines and disease outbreaks.
09:14I think something that really stuck out to me at the beginning of this conversation
09:18is you saying that USAID came in. They almost finished these projects for years.
09:23They funded these projects. Then with these cuts, you see China now coming in. China slapping their
09:29stickers on these projects, claiming them as their own. What are some of the long term and
09:33possibly permanent impacts you think that we're going to see because USAID is shutting down?
09:41Yeah, I think it's difficult to predict. I think I spent a year in Afghanistan with USAID.
09:47And when you were there, you had multiple countries from around the world supporting
09:50U.S. efforts. They were supporting it with troops. They were supporting it with money.
09:54They were supporting it with resources. In the future, I don't know where we're going to need
09:57support. But I am afraid that we may not get the support that we once did.
10:04Brian, I really appreciate your conversation today. I really appreciate you coming on and
10:08joining me. And as we see, you know, the fallout of these cuts, I hope you come back on and we
10:13can continue the conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate being here.