いまからサイエンス 2025年4月2日 世界初の方法で低下した記憶力を回復させる！影山龍一郎教授（理化学研究所）
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00:00BS Television's 25th Anniversary
00:06This episode of Science From Now on, everyone experiences this problem.
00:11When I go shopping, I often forget that I was supposed to buy something around here.
00:18I went to the second floor to get something for work, but I forgot what I was going to do, so I went back down again.
00:24Yes, forgetfulness.
00:27This person is still 39 years old, but...
00:31I was working, and I was wondering what I was supposed to do.
00:38And he is worried about both forgetfulness and cognitive impairment.
00:43The number of patients in Japan is expected to continue to increase.
00:49This time, we have a remarkable researcher who has found a gene that can dramatically restore memory by hiding the possibility of such forgetfulness.
01:01Mr. Kato, today's theme is research to restore memory.
01:07That's a lot of research.
01:10Mr. Kato, do you have any forgetfulness?
01:12I have a lot.
01:13You do?
01:14I have a lot.
01:15When I was looking at my cell phone, I was wondering what I was going to do.
01:18I took out my cell phone, and I saw LINE.
01:21When I read LINE, I was wondering why I had a cell phone.
01:27I forgot what I was going to look up.
01:30Forgetfulness is terrible.
01:32This time, we will focus on the research to restore memory by activating the memory and cognitive parts of the brain.
01:48So, today's science is...
01:53The essential function of the brain for humans, memory.
01:58Research is underway to restore memory and apply it to the treatment of cognitive disorders.
02:08Ryoichiro Kageyama, Director of the Center for Scientific Research, is developing his own system.
02:17When you do a memory test, the score goes up.
02:21You're the first person to discover it in the world.
02:24That's right.
02:25In the mouse memory test, the results were surprising.
02:31In humans, it's up to 60 years old.
02:34In humans, it's up to a teenager.
02:37Can you do it for me?
02:40What is expected by practical application?
02:46In the early stage of Alzheimer's disease,
02:50if you can do this kind of treatment, you can restore cognitive functions and memory.
02:55I think you can suppress various thoughts to some extent.
02:59What is the habit that activates the function of the brain recommended by Mr. Kageyama?
03:06The cancer cells in the residents are more active.
03:09What will happen to me?
03:11You'll be smarter.
03:20Ryoichiro Kageyama, Director of the Center for Scientific Research, is developing his own system.
03:29Excited for the latest science talk.
03:32Science from now on.
03:36Nice to meet you.
03:37Nice to meet you, too.
03:38I'm Kageyama, Director of the Center for Scientific Research.
03:41I'm glad to meet you.
03:42This is the Center for Scientific Research on Life Sciences.
03:45Nice to meet you.
03:46Nice to meet you, too.
03:47Please come in.
03:49As I said at the beginning, what is forgetfulness?
03:56Can you tell us what it is?
03:59We deal with short-term memory.
04:03It's the area of the brain called the hippocampus.
04:07Neurons, neural cells, are born there.
04:11It's very important to maintain memory for a few hours to a few days.
04:18It's the hippocampus in the brain.
04:20It's said that the hippocampus is the place where information is stored in dreams.
04:25The hippocampus doesn't rest for a long time.
04:28That's right.
04:29The hippocampus is a short-term memory.
04:33What you do every day or what you dream of when you go to bed is a place to organize the short-term memory, right?
04:40That's right.
04:41When the hippocampus gradually settles down, it moves to another place called the hippocampus.
04:47Where is the hippocampus?
04:49It's mainly in the hippocampus.
04:53That's where the memory is transferred.
04:55The memory is transferred?
04:56That's right.
04:57The signal is transmitted to the neurons in the hippocampus.
05:02Let's start with the mechanism of memory.
05:06When a person remembers something, the new memory is temporarily stored in the hippocampus as a short-term memory.
05:15After that, it is thought that the information that is repeatedly remembered or judged to be an important memory will accumulate in the hippocampus and become a long-term memory.
05:26It is said that memory has a close relationship with the short-term memory in the hippocampus.
05:33I heard that brain cells can't be made new.
05:38That's right.
05:39Are brain cells and nerve cells in the hippocampus different?
05:44They are the same nerve cells.
05:47There are only two places in the hippocampus, the hippocampus and the other one.
05:51Only that place is special.
05:52There are neural stem cells in the hippocampus.
05:55The stem cells are the basis of the brain, right?
05:57That's right.
05:58The stem cells are the basis of the brain.
06:00The number of stem cells is small, but new neural stem cells are born.
06:04They are born as babies.
06:06The brain is ready to some extent.
06:09The neural stem cells in the hippocampus are making more and more cells.
06:14That's right.
06:15As you said,
06:17In the old days, when the brain of an adult was completed, it was thought that there were no neural stem cells.
06:24However,
06:25My knowledge has accumulated there.
06:28I have been researching for 20 to 30 years.
06:32There are still neural stem cells in the brain of an adult.
06:35The number of neural stem cells in the brain is small, but new neural stem cells are born.
06:41I have come to understand that it is very important for memory, learning, and cognition.
06:46That's great.
06:47Even when you become an adult, do you think there are new neural stem cells?
06:52That's right.
06:54The neural stem cells in the brain create new neural stem cells.
07:00This is called neuronal progression.
07:03This is an experiment that proved the relationship between neuronal progression and memory.
07:09The left is a normal young mouse.
07:12The right is a young mouse without neuronal progression.
07:17This is a mouse with neuronal progression.
07:21This is an experiment in which both mice are taught to enter a hole that is the destination.
07:26This is a comparison of how long it takes to get to the center of the mouse.
07:37A mouse with normal neuronal progression
07:40can remember the hole in the destination in a short time.
07:45A mouse without neuronal progression
07:48can't remember the hole in the destination and can't get there.
07:57As you can see, the neural stem cells create new neural stem cells.
08:03Neuronal progression plays an important role in maintaining memory.
08:09How old does it change?
08:11This is a difficult experiment for humans.
08:14In mice, the neural stem cells of the genitals
08:17change to the type of adult neural stem cells
08:21within two to three weeks after birth.
08:24When the genitals are in the mother's uterus,
08:27the number of neural stem cells increases rapidly.
08:31However, the remaining neural stem cells in the adult brain are almost dormant.
08:37Dormant?
08:38It's not dead or gone.
08:40It's dormant.
08:41It's dormant.
08:42It's still.
08:43It doesn't move or do anything.
08:46But sometimes it wakes up from sleep,
08:49separates a little,
08:51and creates new neurons.
08:53Wait a minute.
08:54Even when it becomes an adult,
08:56the neural stem cells are dormant,
08:58and sometimes they move and create new neurons.
09:01That's right.
09:02With aging, the frequency of waking up from a dormant state
09:06decreases more and more.
09:08I see.
09:09How old is that?
09:11In the mouse experiment,
09:14in humans, it's around the late 30s.
09:19So it's around the 40s.
09:21Yes.
09:22It decreases from the age of 40 or so.
09:26As we grow older,
09:28neural stem cells no longer wake up,
09:31which makes it difficult for them to create new neurons.
09:36In general,
09:37it is thought that this is what causes amnesia.
09:42So what are you trying to do from the point of view of your research?
09:47When we become old,
09:52we become numb.
09:54Even when we look at the mouse.
09:56I think it's the same for humans.
09:58That's why memory and cognitive functions decrease.
10:01I want to keep it at a normal level as much as possible,
10:06so I'm doing an experiment to rejuvenate aging neural stem cells.
10:11That's amazing.
10:12Rejuvenate?
10:13How do you do that?
10:14Did you say that aging is dormant?
10:16The dormant state is getting deeper.
10:19Oh, that's aging.
10:20It's in a state where you can't wake up from sleep at all.
10:24In order to make aging neural stem cells wake up from sleep more often,
10:30we did genetic research.
10:34This is an experiment in which an old mouse remembers the hole that becomes the destination,
10:39just like before.
10:47Because neural stem cells have decreased,
10:50they can't remember the destination.
10:52It takes a lot of time to get there.
10:56When we introduced the system developed by Mr. Kageyama...
11:02It's hard to remember the old mouse.
11:05But if you put it in the old mouse,
11:08just by doing a little training...
11:09You can remember it in one shot?
11:10Yes, in one shot.
11:12It remembers the target hole.
11:14Has the memory increased?
11:15Yes.
11:16That's amazing.
11:20The mouse that introduced Mr. Kageyama's system
11:23remembers the old mouse's hard-to-reach destination
11:28and heads for the hole.
11:34So, how did we activate the aging neural stem cells?
11:41What we did was...
11:43We looked at what kind of genes were working in the aging neural stem cells.
11:52What kind of genes were working?
11:54A lot of genes were working.
11:56In order to find out which genes were important,
12:00we chose the top 80 genes that were strongly active in the aging neural stem cells,
12:04and put them into the aging neural stem cells one by one,
12:10to see if they would wake up from sleep.
12:12You did that?
12:13You did all 80 of them?
12:14Yes.
12:15And we found that one of the genes, Plagg-2,
12:19in the aging neural stem cells,
12:21woke up from sleep at a high frequency.
12:25The first thing that Mr. Kageyama and his team looked into
12:28was the top 80 genes that were strongly active in the aging neural stem cells,
12:31and that were seen in a lot of mice before they were born.
12:36We put these genes into the aging neural stem cells one by one,
12:41to see if they would wake up from sleep.
12:44And we found that Plagg-2,
12:47in the aging neural stem cells,
12:49woke up from sleep.
12:54How high was the frequency?
12:57It was about the frequency of the young neural stem cells.
13:00So, they woke up from sleep once or twice a week.
13:05Isn't that amazing?
13:07Yes, it is.
13:08I was surprised that this could happen.
13:10So, you were the first person in the world to discover this?
13:14Yes, I was.
13:16In addition to that,
13:18we looked at what other genes were in the aging neural stem cells,
13:24and found that they were probably working to maintain sleep.
13:30We did an experiment to suppress the function of these genes one by one.
13:36We looked at about 120 genes,
13:39the genes that were strongly active in the aging neural stem cells.
13:43As a result, we found the D-Y-R-K-1-A gene.
13:47This is confusing.
13:48Why did you put it in such a confusing way?
13:50It's confusing.
13:51One gene at a time.
13:52I think it would have been better if the number was 1 or 2.
13:55Like 580,000.
13:56The person who discovered it must have put it in.
13:58That's right.
13:59So, we suppressed the function of the D-Y-R-K-1-A gene.
14:01It's called a knockdown.
14:03By suppressing it,
14:04we found that the person would wake up from deep sleep.
14:08By suppressing it?
14:09Yes.
14:10This is a gene that is strongly active in the aging neural stem cells,
14:14so it is believed to be a gene that induces deep sleep.
14:19Mr. Kageyama also discovered that
14:21among the 120 genes that are commonly seen in adult mice,
14:25D-Y-R-K-1-A is a gene that maintains the dormant state of neural stem cells.
14:34By suppressing the function of this gene,
14:37neural stem cells wake up again and function actively.
14:44If you do the combination,
14:46Double?
14:47Yes, double.
14:48Then, we found that the aging neural stem cells can be activated at a very high frequency.
14:54However, the name of the gene is difficult to remember,
14:59so we named it IPAD.
15:07IPAD?
15:08Yes.
15:10IPAD, developed by Mr. Kageyama,
15:13suppresses the function of a gene that activates neural stem cells
15:18while suppressing the function of a gene that makes neural stem cells sleep.
15:24By doing both of them,
15:26it is a system that restores memory.
15:31Let's take a look at how much the neural stem cells in the brain are activated.
15:41This is a part of the cervical vertebrae,
15:43and this is a part of the brain.
15:45The neural stem cells are lined up in a V-shape.
15:51Is that shining green?
15:53Yes, the newly born neurons are shining green.
15:59This is an image of the cervical vertebrae of a mouse.
16:03The newly born neurons are shining green,
16:07indicating that the more light there is, the more actively the neural stem cells are activated.
16:15Does that mean it's active?
16:17Yes.
16:18The dots are the cells of the neural stem cells.
16:22In six months, this is how many neural stem cells are activated.
16:26In nine months, 12 months, and 18 months,
16:31they are all asleep.
16:34Neural stem cells are still active,
16:36but the newly born neurons are not.
16:40However, in 18 months,
16:42we introduced IPAD using a virus.
16:46In 19 months,
16:49the neural stem cells are activated again,
16:52and a lot of new neurons are born.
16:56That's close to six months, right?
16:58That's right.
17:00That's amazing.
17:02Because of the efficiency of the virus,
17:04if you look at the neural stem cells one by one,
17:06you can see that they are rejuvenating for about a month or two.
17:11IPAD uses a virus?
17:14Yes, it uses a virus.
17:16We put a set of genes called IPAD in the virus,
17:21inject it into the brain,
17:24and inject it around the lungs to infect the virus.
17:28Does that mean the virus stays there?
17:31That's right.
17:32If you put this in, the genes are absorbed by the neural stem cells,
17:36and the IPAD is stable.
17:40Are there a lot of viruses in the world?
17:42No.
17:43Where are they?
17:45We make them artificially.
17:47You make them?
17:48That's right.
17:49We convert them into genes called IPAD,
17:55and inject them into the brain.
17:58So if you do that and make it stable,
18:01it goes back six months?
18:03That's right.
18:04That's amazing.
18:06Does that mean the mouse experiment was successful?
18:10That's right.
18:11If you look at the mouse experiment,
18:13it takes about 20 months.
18:15In humans, it takes about 60 months.
18:17But in humans, it takes about a teenager.
18:21Wow, that's amazing.
18:2360-year-olds turn into teenagers.
18:25Can you do it for me?
18:27I want to do it.
18:28You want to do it?
18:29Isn't it great that you have a good short-term memory?
18:31After injecting the IPAD virus,
18:34does your short-term memory continue to be good?
18:37That's right.
18:38This is a mouse experiment,
18:40so it's only been about three or four months.
18:43But if you inject it for 20 months,
18:45and inject it for three or four months,
18:47it's almost life-sustaining.
18:49So as long as I can see it,
18:50I've been maintaining it.
18:55After this,
18:56we visit Mr. Kageyama's laboratory
18:58to see the results of the experiment.
19:02Furthermore,
19:03Mr. Kageyama recommends
19:05a surprising method that anyone can do
19:07that makes it difficult to forget memories.
19:10That's interesting.
19:12What happens to me if I do that?
19:14You'll become smarter.
19:18Mr. Kageyama's research
19:20shows the results of the mouse experiment
19:22by finding a way to restore memory.
19:27How far will he go
19:30in his search for practical use?
19:32Mr. Kageyama, you're experimenting with a mouse.
19:34I think it's difficult for humans to do this.
19:37It's not easy for humans to do this.
19:40How do you do it?
19:41What's the procedure from here?
19:43First of all,
19:44I'm trying to use an iPad
19:46that's similar to a human,
19:48called Marmoset, a new-world monkey.
19:50It's a small monkey.
19:51Yes, it's a small monkey.
19:52I'm trying to process it with an iPad.
19:54But unlike a mouse,
19:56it has a relatively low infection rate.
19:59There are some problems like that.
20:01I have to overcome this hurdle.
20:03At the moment,
20:04I'm researching with Marmoset.
20:06The results of Marmoset haven't come out yet?
20:08No, they haven't.
20:10For example,
20:12if it works with Marmoset,
20:14if you get the same results as a mouse,
20:17what happens?
20:19Then I want to apply it to humans.
20:22If Marmoset works,
20:24what do you apply to humans?
20:28At the moment,
20:30I'm using a virus in my brain.
20:33But I don't want people to have a virus in their brain.
20:38I thought you were surprised.
20:41I don't want that either.
20:43So I'm thinking of a way
20:45not to use a virus.
20:47What is it?
20:48What I'm thinking of now is a spread drug.
20:51A spread drug?
20:52Yes.
20:53DNA and RNA.
20:55I think we sold a COVID-19 vaccine.
20:59That's a spread drug.
21:01I want to develop the same thing as that.
21:04When can we get the results of Marmoset?
21:08Well,
21:10everyone says that.
21:12If it goes well,
21:14it may take a year or two.
21:17But there are various hurdles.
21:19It doesn't go the way you think.
21:21I think it will take 3 to 4 years.
21:23I see.
21:24But that's amazing.
21:27An iPad virus that makes you curious.
21:31He showed us what it looks like in the lab.
21:37This is the iPad virus.
21:40This is the iPad virus.
21:43It's stored in a small amount.
21:46Before it gets to the iPad,
21:49we examine hundreds of genes.
21:53The final result is this virus.
21:57It takes 5 to 6 years to get here.
22:00Right?
22:01Yes.
22:02The mouse is fixed to the head.
22:07This is the syringe.
22:09Pressure is applied from here.
22:11The virus is exhaled from here.
22:14The virus is transmitted to the mouse's brain.
22:18This is Marmoset.
22:20This is Marmoset.
22:21The virus is transmitted from here.
22:24We don't have experience in the lab.
22:28There is a large Marmoset facility here.
22:31There are also experts.
22:33We are discussing it now.
22:35We are looking for the safest way.
22:38If it's a human,
22:40we would inject it into the larynx.
22:43We are doing that now.
22:46Research is being carried out every day.
22:49How will it be used in practice?
22:53What will happen if Alzheimer's patients use it?
22:59I think it would be very good
23:03if Alzheimer's patients could use it in the early stages.
23:09I have the impression that it can suppress various diseases.
23:17We are actually using a mouse for Alzheimer's patients.
23:23If you put an iPad in it,
23:26the neural synthesis will be activated
23:29and the recognition function and memory will be restored.
23:32The state is maintained.
23:35I think it would be better to treat it as soon as possible.
23:41In order to reduce the rate of Alzheimer's in the future,
23:49is it possible to inject something like a vaccine in the early 20s or 30s?
23:59I don't know if it's okay to do it so early.
24:03I have to consider side effects.
24:06I haven't seen it yet.
24:08I think it would be better
24:13when the recognition function is mildly reduced.
24:19I see.
24:21There is a possibility that it will return to normal.
24:26In your 50s or 60s?
24:29Yes.
24:31I think it would be better to treat it as soon as possible
24:39if the recognition function is mildly reduced.
24:43I think it would be better to treat it as soon as possible
24:49if the recognition function is mildly reduced.
24:57Since you were young?
24:59For Alzheimer's patients, yes.
25:02Does that mean you can tell when you're young?
25:06Yes.
25:08Some people are born early.
25:11Many people are born in their 60s or 70s or 80s
25:15and become Alzheimer's or other cognitive disorders.
25:19I think that if neural synthesis can be activated,
25:23the recognition function can be maintained.
25:27I see.
25:28I'll go back to what I said earlier.
25:31By maintaining short-term memory,
25:34Alzheimer's patients lose their short-term memory
25:37and don't know what they're doing.
25:39That's right.
25:40They lose their short-term memory.
25:42Yes, I think that can be prevented.
25:45Now, let's ask Mr. Kageyama
25:48how to activate neural cells in everyday life.
25:53People in their 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s
25:56have terrible memory loss.
25:58Is there a way to get better?
26:00Can you tell us what you've noticed
26:03by looking at the papers?
26:06I love to run with my mouse.
26:10I run at night because it's night time.
26:14If I run freely,
26:16the frequency of neural cell activation increases
26:20and more neural cells are born.
26:23Is that exercise?
26:25That's right.
26:26It makes people smarter.
26:29A few decades ago,
26:31an American group reported that
26:34if you run fast,
26:36the number of neural cell activation increases.
26:40That's funny.
26:42A lot of neurons are born.
26:45Can't you run fast?
26:47It's said that running and jogging are good.
26:51How about running fast?
26:53The paper says running fast is the best.
26:56Really?
26:57Do you run fast?
27:00I try to run as fast as I can.
27:03You try to run as fast as you can.
27:06That's a strange paper.
27:09I run as fast as I can
27:13up to less than 100 meters.
27:17I don't run that fast.
27:19That's why it's said to activate neurons.
27:22When you do an MRI test,
27:25the red spots are bigger.
27:27After a year,
27:29the red spots are 2% bigger than those who haven't done it.
27:33Those who haven't done it get smaller.
27:36This is a study for people over 55 years old.
27:40This is a study for people between 55 and 80 years old.
27:44I'm 55 years old now.
27:47If I run fast for an hour from now,
27:51will my cells become more active?
27:56Will they move?
27:57Yes.
27:58Will they make new cells?
27:59Yes.
28:00What will happen to me?
28:02You'll be smarter.
28:04You'll be smarter?
28:05I don't know how to say that.
28:07According to the report,
28:09if you do a memory test, your score will increase.
28:12Do you run fast?
28:13I run fast every day after reading that paper.
28:18But in that paper,
28:20it was written that it's not good for people who did dumbbells.
28:24It's not good for muscle training.
28:26It's written that it's not very effective.
28:29It's also said that the waste in the brain is excreted while sleeping.
28:35Waste accumulates in Alzheimer's disease.
28:39Waste accumulates in Alzheimer's disease.
28:43Yes.
28:44Waste accumulates in Alzheimer's disease.
28:47Waste accumulates in Alzheimer's disease.
28:51So, sleep is very important.
28:54In this program,
28:55we have a teacher who teaches us the basics.
29:00In the end, it's about exercise, sleep, and eating.
29:03Yes.
29:04There are only these three things.
29:06It's natural for a cutting-edge scientist to come here.
29:11Exercise, eat, and sleep.
29:13Yes.
29:14But that's it.
29:15Yes.
29:16But I think it's important to treat it at the genetic level
29:21where we can't deal with it.
29:25It's going to be like that.
29:27Yes.
29:28I think humans are improving little by little.
29:34After this, we will cut into the mystery of memory,
29:38which is unconsciously done in the human brain.
29:41Oh, it's interesting.
29:45Mr. Kato has always been wondering about memory.
29:50I think that human beings are improving little by little in the past.
29:58Yes, they are.
29:59That's a little strange.
30:01I think everyone does it.
30:04I'm not an expert, so I don't know.
30:08I think there are many cases where various memories are mixed up.
30:13As the years go by, memory can be improved in that sense.
30:18Does that mean you make it convenient?
30:20Maybe.
30:22I think there are cases where you make it convenient for yourself.
30:26For example, when I met my friend when I was a student,
30:31he said,
30:32I remember how Koji was like at that time.
30:35I said,
30:36No, that's you.
30:37We have different memories.
30:39That happens a lot.
30:40It happens a lot, doesn't it?
30:41I do, too.
30:42I wonder what's going on with each other's memories.
30:45That's right.
30:46Does that mean either of us is improving somewhere?
30:50I think there are many memories mixed up somewhere.
30:54I have a memory of talking and remembering normally,
30:58and I have a memory of remembering suddenly for some reason.
31:01I see.
31:02I haven't thought about it for decades.
31:05Do you have a memory of being a resident?
31:07It depends on various things.
31:09There is a possibility that it is mixed with such things.
31:12I see.
31:13If it's true, I think it's in my brain.
31:17When I think about it, I think the memory of the brain is fuzzy.
31:22Is it okay to think of it as such a thing?
31:24I think so.
31:27Now, let's talk about the mechanism of unforgettable memories.
31:33How do you tell the difference between
31:36very vividly unforgettable memories,
31:40those with a solid memory, and those without a memory?
31:43I think it depends on how strong the neurons are.
31:50The memory is maintained by the connection of neurons.
31:55If the connection is bad, it will be forgotten immediately.
32:00If the neurons are strongly connected,
32:03the circuit will be maintained,
32:06so the memory will remain vividly.
32:08When I was in kindergarten,
32:10I was asked to buy a bicycle,
32:12and I was told not to buy it,
32:14but the bicycle got better and better.
32:16I thought I could drive with my eyes closed.
32:19When I was driving with my eyes closed,
32:21I hit my head against the traffic light.
32:24From the moment I hit my head,
32:26I left my bicycle, cried, ran home, and went home.
32:30I was surprised that my mother was covered in blood.
32:33I have vivid memories of that.
32:35This is a memory of five years old.
32:38This is because the connection of neurons is strong.
32:42It must have remained very strong.
32:44Why did it remain strong?
32:46I don't need this memory.
32:50I don't need it at all,
32:52but it remained very strong.
32:54I still remember it vividly.
32:56Why did the neurons remain strong?
32:59I don't know why certain memories remain
33:02and other memories disappear.
33:05I don't know how they are selected.
33:08One is whether there is a repetition.
33:11Even if there is a repetition,
33:13if there is a strong impression,
33:15I think the connection remains very strong.
33:18Does that mean it's still connected?
33:21In the mouse experiment,
33:23there is an experiment that gives electric shock.
33:28Such memories of fear remain very strong.
33:34So, things that are life-threatening
33:37are memorized by humans.
33:40That's right.
33:42What happens vividly is instinct.
33:45It's like, this is dangerous.
33:47It's like trying not to have this experience in the future.
33:51I feel that the effect is strong.
33:54That's easy to remember.
33:56I see.
33:58Were you interested in something?
34:00What was the first trigger?
34:02Actually, I'm not an expert in this field.
34:06In fact, Mr. Kageyama found a surprising discovery
34:09in a real field of expertise.
34:12Wow!
34:16Mr. Kageyama found a way
34:18to activate neural cells in the brain.
34:22What he was originally studying was
34:24how organisms before birth
34:27shape their bodies,
34:30and what kind of genes are involved
34:33in this field.
34:36In this research, he found
34:39that there is an important rhythm
34:42in the formation of organisms.
34:45I found that rhythm is important.
34:48Rhythm?
34:50Yes, it's called the rhythm of birth.
34:52After we are born,
34:54we have an external rhythm.
34:57We work during the day,
34:59and sleep at night.
35:01After we are born, this rhythm is very important.
35:04But before we are born,
35:06the external rhythm doesn't work.
35:08The rhythm of birth is very important.
35:11For example, a mouse has a 2-hour cycle.
35:14A 2-hour rhythm.
35:16What does a 2-hour cycle do?
35:18The easiest way to understand this is
35:20to write the adipose tissue of the body.
35:23From the adipose tissue,
35:25the spine, ribs, and muscles are divided.
35:28The adipose tissue of the body is adipose tissue.
35:32The adipose tissue moves from the head to the buttocks.
35:35In the case of a mouse,
35:37the adipose tissue is formed one by one
35:39every two hours.
35:41That's amazing!
35:43One by one?
35:45Yes, one by one.
35:47The human body is formed one by one
35:49every five hours.
35:51That's amazing!
35:53Anyone can do that, right?
35:55Yes, anyone can do that.
35:57That's the rhythm.
36:00If the rhythm stops,
36:02all the adipose tissue will stick together.
36:05As a result, the spine sticks together,
36:07and the ribs stick together,
36:09so the chest becomes very small.
36:12After birth, you can't breathe,
36:14so you die right away.
36:16You die of shortness of breath.
36:18That's why this rhythm is very important.
36:21In this video,
36:22the adipose tissue of the mouse's tail
36:24is formed one by one every two hours.
36:30The green part is the part
36:32where the genes that make the adipose tissue
36:34are actively working.
36:36You can see that the adipose tissue
36:38is formed regularly.
36:40The same rhythm works
36:42in the nerve and liver cells.
36:45When the nerve and liver cells
36:47have the rhythm of birth,
36:49they can multiply more and more
36:51and produce a large brain.
36:53When the rhythm is disturbed,
36:55the number of nerve and liver cells
36:57does not increase much,
36:59and the brain becomes small.
37:01That's why the rhythm is very important.
37:03When you look at the adult's nerve and liver cells,
37:06there is no rhythm in the dormant state.
37:09I was doing an experiment
37:11to see what would happen
37:13if I revived the rhythm.
37:15I suddenly woke up from sleep,
37:17started to multiply,
37:19and created neurons.
37:21If you didn't do that research,
37:23you were connected to the memory.
37:25That's right.
37:27From there,
37:29did you go into the memory?
37:31I'm still doing both because I'm greedy.
37:33Are you doing it?
37:35Are you doing the rhythm?
37:37Yes, I'm doing the rhythm research.
37:39You're doing research,
37:41but there are still things you don't understand,
37:43and you want to do more research.
37:45I think it's really hard,
37:47but isn't it fun?
37:49It's a lot of fun.
37:51It's hard.
37:53The experiment doesn't go well.
37:55It's a series of failures.
37:57It's hard,
37:59but it's still fun.
38:03Actually, Mr. Kageyama
38:05was interested in science
38:07because of an anime.
38:09Originally,
38:11I was afraid of various diseases,
38:13especially cancer.
38:15When I was a child,
38:17I wanted to cure my cancer.
38:19Why did you want to cure your cancer?
38:21There was a story about people
38:23who died of cancer.
38:25In the anime,
38:27there was a scene called
38:29the Titan Star.
38:31In that scene,
38:33Hoshihuma's girlfriend
38:35becomes a melanoma
38:37and dies.
38:39It was a big shock for us.
38:41For a while,
38:43I was worried about
38:45Hoshihuma's girlfriend.
38:47We were worried about each other.
38:49After that,
38:51I wanted to cure my cancer.
38:53I joined the medical department
38:55of Kyoto University.
38:57Most of my classmates
38:59became doctors.
39:01I also became a doctor,
39:03and I thought
39:05I could do basic research
39:07with one hand.
39:09When I was in the third grade,
39:11there was a very sophisticated
39:13professor of biology
39:15at Kyoto University.
39:17I took his class for the first time.
39:19He told me that
39:21there are very few
39:23basic medical students.
39:25At the beginning of the class,
39:27he said that
39:29it is important to have a doctor
39:31who can cure 100 people in front of you,
39:33but it is also very important
39:35to have a basic research
39:37that can cure 1 million people in the future.
39:39I was very impressed by that.
39:41I decided to do basic research
39:43instead of becoming a doctor.
39:45Did you go to the university?
39:47Yes, I did.
39:49You were originally a giant star.
39:51That was one of the reasons.
39:55We asked Mr. Kageyama
39:57about his future plans.
40:01What do you want to do in the future?
40:03First of all,
40:05I want to do my best
40:07to make this iPad
40:09as useful as possible.
40:11I am in the medical department,
40:13so I want to help people
40:15in some way.
40:17Until now,
40:19I have enjoyed doing basic research,
40:21but I want to help society
40:23as much as possible.
40:25What do you think?
40:27Do you want more people
40:29to do basic research in Japan?
40:31The number of people
40:33who do basic research
40:35is decreasing.
40:37The number of people
40:39who do basic research
40:41is decreasing.
40:43I think basic research
40:45is important.
40:47Because of that,
40:49there are discoveries
40:51that can be applied.
40:53That's right.
40:55It's all about basic research.
40:57I want the government
40:59to invest in that direction.
41:01That's really important.
41:03What I'm worried about
41:05is that people who don't do basic research
41:07don't come to research.
41:09It's tough.
41:11Especially in the medical department,
41:13when you become a doctor,
41:15the income is relatively high,
41:17but when you go to basic research,
41:19the income is not so high.
41:21There is a system that supports
41:23economic support.
41:25It's increasing,
41:27but it's poorer than being a doctor,
41:29so people don't go there.
41:31What will develop
41:33in the future?
41:35I don't know.
41:37I think it's important
41:39to support various research
41:41and proposals as evenly as possible.
41:43What do you think is necessary
41:45to increase the number of people
41:47who do basic research?
41:49I think it's important
41:51to convey the charm of basic research.
41:53It's tough.
41:55The daily research life
41:57is tough,
41:59but I'm very happy
42:01to be able to do basic research.
42:03I'm happy that I found this
42:05for the first time in the world.
42:07Based on that,
42:09the circle will expand.
42:11People who are interested in it
42:13will hear various ideas
42:15from various people.
42:17It will be a reference
42:19and research will proceed to the next stage.
42:21If you experience that,
42:23basic research is interesting
42:25and you will understand
42:27various important things
42:29in the future.
42:31I see.
42:33Lastly,
42:35please tell us
42:37what science is to you.
42:39It was an interesting story.
42:41Rhythm.
42:43It's mysterious.
42:45It's a matter of time.
42:53After this,
42:55Mr. Kageyama's
42:57story will continue.
43:01Please tell us
43:03what science is to you.
43:05It's a challenge to the miracle.
43:07Our body
43:09is a miracle.
43:11I thought so
43:13when I heard today's story.
43:15I want to understand it.
43:17To understand it,
43:19you have to challenge various things.
43:21The research we do
43:23every day
43:25is what we couldn't think of
43:2710 or 20 years ago.
43:31For us 20 years ago,
43:33what we are doing now is a miracle.
43:35I see.
43:37In many ways,
43:39the research we do every day
43:41is a challenge
43:43to the miracle.
43:45It's a good challenge to the miracle.
43:47It seems to be the title of the program.
43:49That's right.
43:51It's a challenge to the miracle.
43:53I might get this title.
43:55Thank you very much.
43:57Thank you very much, Mr. Kageyama.