Inside Baseball’s $12 Billion Business With MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred (1)

Forbes

MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred joined Forbes senior writer Jabari Young on The Enterprise Zone at the Nasdaq MarketSite. In the discussion, Manfred previews the 2025 season, recaps his career climb to commissioner, and what’s in store for the league’s media rights after it departs ESPN. Manfred also elaborates on why MLB dropped “diversity” from its website.  The Enterprise Zone is a spin-off of the Forbes Talks news series. The weekly show will explore engaging, fireside chat-style business conversations with influential figures, including top athletes, prominent CEOs, entertainers, and visionary entrepreneurs. Each episode will feature guests sharing their unique journeys, triumphs, challenges and setbacks.  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  0:00 Introduction 2:11 Rob Manfred On The MLB Season Start 2025 6:01 MLB As An International Business 12:37 Rob Manfred Game Attendance Of MLB 24:30 MLB And Partnerships With Entrepreneurs 30:43 Rob Manfred On The Promotion Of MLB Players 40:50 Where Will The MLB Invest Next?  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00And business negotiations, about 75% of it, all preparation.

00:04And in a minute, we'll be introducing you to a huge preparation guy.

00:08Analytics, decision-based, fierce negotiator.

00:11Baseball is back.

00:12And what better way to celebrate than talking business with MLB Commissioner Rob Manford.

00:18You're entering an enterprise zone at the Nasdaq.

00:25Hello everyone, this is Jabari Young, Senior Writer at Forbes.

00:28And I am here at the Nasdaq, joined by MLB Commissioner Rob Manford.

00:33Thank you so much, sir, for joining me.

00:35It's been a long time.

00:36Baseball is back.

00:37The 2025 season, it's actually underway, right?

00:39But the spring training, excuse me, not spring training,

00:41the actual opener, season opener kicks off this week.

00:44Thank you so much, man.

00:45It's been a while.

00:46Why have you not been coming up here?

00:48It has been a while.

00:48I don't know.

00:49Maybe you weren't interested?

00:50I don't know.

00:50Of course I was.

00:52Of course.

00:52I know you're busy though, right?

00:53First off of Tokyo.

00:55But listen, again, baseball is back.

00:57And before we get into that, we are at the Nasdaq, right?

01:00Give me a stock, right?

01:01Something that's worked well for you.

01:03Something that maybe you've been interested in buying or already have in your portfolio.

01:06Well, you know, that's an interesting thing.

01:08You know, I have a investment manager.

01:12And I swear to you, I do not pick, do not look.

01:17No, I really don't.

01:19It's just, you know, I'm sort of a believer in people who are professionals.

01:24They're focused on one thing.

01:25They're always going to be better than you are.

01:27I look at the overall results.

01:29I don't pay a lot of attention to the individual names.

01:32I did have NVIDIA.

01:33That was pretty good.

01:34NVIDIA.

01:34There we go.

01:35Now we're getting to it.

01:36NVIDIA.

01:36I mean, listen, the stock has been up and you can get in right now.

01:39I've been looking at it myself.

01:40It's a little bit too high for me, Commissioner.

01:42But I know you can afford it.

01:43But NVIDIA is not bad either.

01:45And listen, as we talk, right, we are still in Women's History Month, right?

01:48Give me that woman who's maybe stood out in the business world for you.

01:51Someone who's been impactful.

01:53You know, someone that I only have seen speak actually at the Almond Company Conference,

02:03but I found her to be really impressive was Sheryl Sandberg.

02:06Really, you know, well-spoken, smart, balanced, impressive.

02:11Yeah.

02:12Nice.

02:12And April's right around the corner, too.

02:14Again, springtime, Financial Literacy Month was the biggest piece of money management advice

02:18that you may have had in your life.

02:19Yeah, I think that the best piece of advice I got was one of my former bosses said to me,

02:27the first million dollars you save, you should always keep in cash.

02:30Just always keep that first million in cash.

02:32Why?

02:33I think it's a downside protection mentality.

02:37You know, you always got a million bucks there and it's a good thing.

02:40Do you keep it under your bed or something?

02:41No, I keep it in the bank.

02:43OK.

02:43Because you could lose money in the bank, too, right?

02:45Yeah, well, liquid.

02:46Yeah, that's true.

02:47That's true.

02:48I mean, listen, again, man, opening day is here.

02:51Is there a Rob Manford tradition for opening day?

02:54Like, do you sit back, crack a beer, like do something like maybe later on in that night

02:58as after the teams have done their one game and the feeling is there?

03:02What's your tradition?

03:03Well, I always try to go to a ballpark.

03:05Yeah.

03:06You know, I think it's important.

03:07It's just a symbolic thing to be in a ballpark live.

03:11And then I do try to sit down at night and sort of go through the openers and see

03:16what happened, the various places.

03:19You know, there's so much talk throughout the post or the offseason that, you know,

03:24it's kind of exciting to see who's actually there and who's doing what, at least in the

03:27first game.

03:28Yeah.

03:28And I mean, I tell you, listen, I can't lie to you.

03:31And I'm ashamed to say this.

03:32I was trying to figure out if I was going to tell you or not.

03:34Last year, I missed a game.

03:36I did not get to an MLB ballpark.

03:38And I know I feel like I already jumped off of a building.

03:41I was telling my friends, I said, yo, man, no matter what, we have to go.

03:44My life got so full and my daughter's getting older, but I'm not, I cannot miss a game.

03:48Well, your daughter getting older is the best possible reason to be going to the ballpark.

03:54It is.

03:54But you know what happens, right?

03:55See, the Yankees spoiled me and they gave me that ticket to the legend suite.

03:58And now she doesn't want to go unless it's there.

04:01And so, you know, I can't always get in there.

04:02And so, you know.

04:03Well, you know, you got friends.

04:05I do.

04:07You guys heard it.

04:08I got some friends.

04:09I mean, listen, you guys are coming back from Tokyo and we were just off camera talking

04:12about, you know, where that place is headed, you know, that particular country.

04:16And, you know, the Tokyo series that you had, the Dodgers and Cubs, which officially opened

04:21the MLB season and highest rating viewership, right?

04:24And over that way, merch was off the hook.

04:26Attendance, 25 million watched the Dodgers Cubs game one.

04:30Great momentum heading into the season.

04:32You know, it's interesting.

04:34One of the impressions that I was left with, having been in Japan, met with the Japanese

04:39commissioner's office, the Korean commissioner's office, and baseball, small letter B, has

04:45amazing momentum right now.

04:47The Korean professional league set an attendance record last year.

04:52The Japanese professional league set an attendance record last year, 56 million people.

04:58We drew over 72 million just in the major leagues, not counting minor league baseball

05:04last year.

05:05And the game really is on an upswing, youth participation way up.

05:10And so we feel like we have tremendous momentum going into the season.

05:12Yeah, I mean, I see it.

05:13I mean, coming off of Shohei Ohtani, I mean, I don't know if you've seen anything different

05:17from the reaction.

05:18It was a homecoming for him.

05:19But I mean, over in the US, you know, the guy's a star.

05:22Over there, I'm sure he's a superstar.

05:24Did you see anything different or was it the same old same?

05:27No, it was not the same old, same old.

05:29I mean, it is so pervasive.

05:32You know, we went down one morning into the store in the Tokyo Dome, went just shortly

05:40after it opened.

05:41If it had a 17 or Ohtani on it, you could not get near it.

05:48His picture is everywhere when you drive around Tokyo.

05:53It's just, you know, it is beyond superstardom.

05:56It's something I'm not sure what the next level is, but it is at that level.

06:01While we're over there, right, let's look at the international business of baseball

06:04right fast, right, before heading back to the US, because as I look at the landscape

06:08you have, obviously the NBA, they're concentrating on places like Africa, China and other countries.

06:14NFL, they're looking over, obviously, in Europe.

06:16And here's baseball.

06:17You guys are concentrating on that Asia market.

06:18You have Japan, Taiwan.

06:20What is going on with the international side?

06:22And if we ever see MLB in Africa coming out, what are you guys looking at?

06:26I put it in three buckets, OK?

06:29Asia, you know, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, you know, developed professional leagues, which

06:34kind of gives you a bedrock to work from.

06:37Tremendous economic opportunity because they're developed economies.

06:42Real culture of baseball in all three countries.

06:45We had a WBC qualifier in Taiwan earlier this month.

06:51We sold 35,000 seats for each of three games.

06:54And, you know, it was countries that are not really baseball powerhouses.

06:58And that's the level of interest there is in the game.

07:00So that's kind of pocket one developed.

07:04Mexico, I put in a second category.

07:07We see it, again, established baseball culture.

07:10We think there's an opportunity for us to get more players from Mexico.

07:14And we're working hard at that because we think it would help our domestic product as

07:18well as drive interest in Mexico.

07:20And there's a genuine broadcast opportunity in Mexico for us.

07:25And then the third bucket is kind of the developing countries.

07:28We're spending a lot of time on India right now.

07:32We have a zillion people down there.

07:34Yeah, a lot of people.

07:35And, you know, the cricket, bat, ball carryover is sort of interesting.

07:40You know, there was a young man who was actually born in India, was selected in the first round

07:45by Toronto a couple of years ago.

07:47And we think that could be something that will really drive the development of baseball

07:51in India if he turns out to be a really good player.

07:53Yeah, absolutely.

07:54One star we've seen with the NBA would, you know, Yao Ming can turn things around for

07:59you big time.

08:00Now, bringing it back to the U.S., one of the things that is in the news for you guys

08:04is that ESPN media deal, right?

08:06I mean, you guys both opted out.

08:09It's strange that Sunday Night Baseball or ESPN won't be around in the home run.

08:13They're like, it feels weird.

08:14But again, out with the old, in with the new, maybe.

08:17Well, what's the latest there?

08:18And how are you guys going to manage these properties moving forward?

08:21Well, look, I mean, you know, we see the sort of end of that relationship as an unfortunate

08:28development.

08:30Can it be saved, though?

08:31Is it a possibility?

08:32You know, look, you never say never.

08:34I think that the problem is over a long period of time, things didn't go as we desired.

08:43You know, Baseball Tonight went away.

08:45We thought, you know, that was, you know, sort of cut back on promotion in order to

08:50get the last deal done.

08:51We actually created around the playoffs because they wanted, you know, playoff baseball.

08:56We didn't have anything else to give them.

08:59That was very successful.

09:01And yet, you know, a year before, it's not like they came to us and said, this isn't

09:06working.

09:07Instead, you know, we started to get these leaks.

09:09We're going to opt out.

09:10We're going to opt out.

09:11And, you know, that's what happened.

09:14I mean, it is what it is.

09:16The good news is the incoming, in terms of interest, even in just the three years that

09:22we really are focused on right now, has been really strong.

09:26I think that ideally, from our perspective, if we could move Sunday Night Baseball to

09:31broadcast, it would be a real victory for us.

09:35But we have interest both from broadcast entities and some of the new media companies.

09:40I was just with Roku Sports.

09:41You know, Roku, their head of sports, you know, Joe, just last week at the Sports Pro

09:45Conference.

09:46And that's a relationship that's interesting because Roku is on every television.

09:50And you get the discoverability right there.

09:53Yeah.

09:53I mean, I think we did the Roku deal for the simple reason that there was a reach there

10:00that we thought was valuable to us just in terms of getting to more people.

10:05As the cable universe is shrinking, you've got to think about reach.

10:08Broadcast is one avenue.

10:10But entities like Roku is another one.

10:12Yeah.

10:13They're on the horizon.

10:13I mean, can we maybe envision your own MLB fast channel across platforms as well?

10:18You can.

10:18And, you know, look, I think that it's important in an environment that's changing as rapidly

10:26as our media space is to experiment.

10:29Experiment both in terms of who are these people?

10:32And, you know, is it somebody we'd like to do business with over the long haul?

10:35But also, you know, you put games out there, you get a feel for exactly what you might expect

10:42in terms of return from that kind of a relationship.

10:44Yeah.

10:45Speaking of experimenting, I called just before my good friend, Rob Parker, MLBbro.com.

10:50And I said, Rob, I got the commissioner coming up.

10:52What would you ask him?

10:53And he didn't get to it, but he was really, really, he said I would credit him for the

10:58rule changes.

10:59And I said, man, Rob, that's really strange coming from you because you are hard.

11:02And he's a baseball aficionado.

11:04This man is a historian with baseball.

11:06But he said, man, I got to give it to him.

11:08Those rule changes really helped.

11:09The games are quicker.

11:10He loves a pitch clock.

11:11Are you starting to get all that, the criticism that you were getting before?

11:14Are you starting to get those people come around and say, hey, we love it?

11:16Oh, we really feel like we're past that wave.

11:18You know, we laugh in the office.

11:21And, you know, you need to understand the environment you're operating in.

11:26No matter what the changes, no matter how big, how small, you're going to have a period

11:31of three or four weeks where traditional people are going to be opposed to the change.

11:37I mean, when we went to the change where you didn't have to throw the four pitches, I mean,

11:44some people acted, you know, like we'd ripped up the Constitution.

11:48But, you know, once people see things and, you know, you see that things like the pitch

11:54clock improved the pace of the game, improved the action in the game, people start to come

11:59around and say, hey, this kind of looks like baseball used to look, right?

12:04It's not so much you're changing the game.

12:06It's you're putting it back to the way it was when a lot of people first fell in love.

12:10Yeah, it's fun, man.

12:11So I said I feel guilty for not being able to go last year, but I'm going this year.

12:15We're going to get there.

12:16Absolutely.

12:17You know, listen, you look at, again, the overall health of baseball.

12:21I'm looking at 71 million attendance, right?

12:23That's up from 70 million in 2023, still down from 2027, but trending up.

12:2910 billion in revenue the last time, man, you was in San Diego talking in 2019

12:32and it's reported 12 billion.

12:34That all accurate?

12:35That's fair?

12:36Sounds right.

12:37So with that said, what's Rob Manfred's?

12:39If you had to describe, give me one word about the overall health of MLB as we sit here in 2025,

12:44right?

12:44Midway in the decade.

12:45What would you say that word is?

12:46I think that the single biggest word is momentum.

12:49I think that the business is on an upward trend, that the product we're putting on the field

12:57is a better product.

12:59More people are coming to stadiums.

13:01The demographics have dramatically improved.

13:03Our 18 to 34s were up double digits on all the platforms last year.

13:09And maybe, you know, most important, and I think it is the long-term indicator of health,

13:13our youth participation numbers are way up.

13:16If people play as kids, they grow up to be fans.

13:20Absolutely.

13:20I mean, that's how I did it.

13:21And then watching the movie The Sandlot, that's how I developed baseball.

13:24You know, that's an interesting space.

13:26We were actually talking about this the other day.

13:29There hasn't been a great baseball movie in a few years.

13:33We're due.

13:33Yeah, we are.

13:34But don't remake The Sandlot.

13:36Keep it a classic because kids can still access it.

13:38But I mean, when I think about that movie, it's like, man, that's when I kind of fell in love

13:42with baseball.

13:43And then, obviously, back in Philly, where I grew up, I saw a hard-hitting Mark Whitten.

13:48And then, you know, the Ryan Howards, Jimmy Howards, Rollins of the world.

13:50I mean, I fell in love with it at that point.

13:52You do know Jimmy and Ryan were both with us in Tokyo.

13:55Oh, I didn't know that.

13:57Unbelievable.

13:58They are quite a pair.

13:59Jimmy's the man, man.

14:00Absolutely.

14:01He's the man.

14:01Absolutely the best.

14:02What's it like being commissioner of a major sports league like MLB?

14:06Like, I mean, do you have to rip your hair out sometimes because you got to go through the PR

14:10stuff and then you got the players union and then you have just all the other stuff that goes with

14:13it.

14:13What is that like for you?

14:14Look, you know, I love the job.

14:17You know, when I started, I thought I would go 10 years and I've done that now.

14:21And, you know, I thought it'd be done.

14:23I agreed to stay on because I really do love the job.

14:26I mean, look, you get the PR, you learn to manage it.

14:29You don't know when people say, I don't care.

14:33That's actually not true.

14:34You know, you do care, but you learn to manage the emotion that's associated with it.

14:40In terms of owners, you know, obviously there's different guys that you have to manage more

14:46carefully.

14:47But on balance, I have a great group of owners.

14:50They're very united.

14:52They've been tremendously supportive of the things that I've tried to do.

14:57And, you know, the cherry on top of it all is you get to be associated with the greatest

15:02game in the world.

15:02I mean, why not?

15:04It's a great gig.

15:05Yeah, it is.

15:06But there's positive surprises and there are negative surprises, right?

15:09What's your biggest positive surprise about being commissioned?

15:12I think the biggest positive is how many people are actually not vocal, but positive about

15:25what the commissioner's office is doing and trying to do.

15:28There's a real silent, you know, you hear the loud voices.

15:32There's a huge majority of people that are supportive of the kind of things that we've

15:38tried to do on a variety of fronts.

15:40And that was surprising to me because you get focused on the loud voices.

15:45Yeah.

15:45And the negative surprise?

15:48The negative surprise is how passionate some of the loud voices are.

15:56I mean, you know, at the end of the day, it's a game, right?

15:59It's a game.

16:00But, you know, I think that passion, while it can be negative in terms of, you know,

16:05what people say and do, it's also indicative of a tide of the sport that's really deep

16:12and meaningful to those people.

16:13And you have to keep that in the back of your mind while you're dealing with them.

16:16Well, what's your day to day?

16:17Do you get up?

16:18You have a cup of coffee.

16:19You look at Forbes.com, obviously.

16:21Check the Nasdaq index.

16:22Then what?

16:23Well, I'm a big workout guy.

16:24I work out every morning.

16:26Walking?

16:26No, you know, I do a combination of kind of a big Peloton guy, became a Peloton person

16:33during the pandemic.

16:34But a combination of that and weights, I try to do that every day.

16:38I find it clears my head.

16:40I have a great curated news feed that I try to read before I go out in the morning that

16:47I think, you know, important to get beyond baseball and sports.

16:52You know, I have a little bigger vision of what's going on in the world.

16:56So I try to do those things before I go to the office, because once I go to the office,

16:59it's kind of all baseball all the time.

17:01Steve Ballmer has told me that every morning he gets up, he usually one of the things he

17:05does, he did.

17:06I don't know if he still does it, but he checked Twitter and now it's X app.

17:10And I said, why do you do that?

17:11He says, because it gives him an indication on what's on the top of people's minds because

17:15they go right there and they want to.

17:17And I found that to be very interesting.

17:18Right.

17:19What is the first news source you check?

17:20Yeah, I do.

17:22Look, I have a service that collects clips about baseball.

17:27I always go through those in the morning.

17:29I think it's important to know what's on people's mind.

17:32But I agree with Steve, you know, like I have a fairly transparent email.

17:36I get a lot of direct communication with fans.

17:39And, you know, sometimes people say, why do you want all that in your inbox?

17:42You know, it just kind of gives you a feel for what's out there real time.

17:45And it's a good thing.

17:46Yeah.

17:46Keeping your ear and eyes on the ground.

17:47Yeah, most definitely.

17:48Most definitely.

17:49Listen, take me back to Saturday, August 10th, 1968.

17:54And you grew up in New York, right?

17:55And start time 250.

17:58Yeah.

17:58Yankees Stadium, Yankees Twins.

18:00It was you and your dad.

18:01And you're in that stadium.

18:03What is the smell like?

18:04What does it feel like?

18:05And because that was your first game, if I'm not mistaken.

18:07And that's the last game that Mickey Mantle, your favorite player, hit two home runs, right?

18:12One from each side.

18:12One from each.

18:13What is that feeling like there?

18:15Well, you know, it's a huge thing in my family.

18:17It was actually, I have a younger brother, older sister, and my mom and dad took the three of us

18:23down.

18:24I mean, it was like a huge family trip to drive from upstate New York to go to this game.

18:29And the thing I remember the most, I remember walking up into the stadium before we even got

18:35to our seats.

18:36And I found the visual of the field and Yankees Stadium to just be breathtaking.

18:44I mean, it's absolutely unbelievable.

18:48You know, I'd never seen a stadium that large in person.

18:52But the combination of the size and just the green grass and the dirt and it looks so pristine

18:58left a real impression.

19:00I remember my dad giving my brother and I a hard time about how many hot dogs we tried to eat.

19:06If they really cost you 30 minutes for every one you ate, we shaved some ears off that day.

19:11But it was a great day.

19:12It was actually Old Timers Day.

19:13So we saw the Old Timers game before and then the game against the Twins.

19:19It was just an unbelievable experience.

19:20Did you like when we get in there?

19:22Because I know when I'm looking at my 11-year-old, I don't know the first time I've been to a

19:24baseball game.

19:25I was part of the Phillies fan or kids club and I was sitting up in the nosebleeds of

19:29Veteran Stadium, right?

19:30And it's just a feeling that you have like, man, I'm here.

19:34Yeah, like this is it.

19:35This is real.

19:36You know, you put your finger on something that I think is really important and a differentiator

19:41for us as compared to some other sports.

19:44Our live product.

19:45Better than anything in the world.

19:46Is just so good.

19:48And, you know, you talk about change and this doesn't have a lot to do with what happens

19:57in the commissioner's office.

19:58It's really been at the club level.

20:00But the clubs have been tremendously responsive in terms of updating the stadium experience

20:07to try to appeal to younger fans.

20:11You know, the seating optionality, the stand-up bars, all those developments that have helped

20:16make our live audience, our average age of ticket buyers is down six years in the last

20:22five, which is, you know, when you're talking about 70 million tickets, that's a huge move.

20:27And, you know, you see it places like Philly in the postseason.

20:30You walk around in the upper deck.

20:32It's young people.

20:33That's who's up there.

20:36Exactly, exactly.

20:38And I do think that the focus on the live product really important for us.

20:43So as you get home from that game, right?

20:45You see Mickey Mantle hit two home runs is in your head.

20:47Are you thinking, I want to be MLB commissioner one day or player?

20:50I know you guys spent your years as a lawyer, but what do you want to be at that point?

20:54Mickey Mantle?

20:55Actually, all I was thinking about, we went back the next day.

20:59I did get two games.

21:00Wow.

21:00But no, I really did not.

21:03Even when I came to work in the commissioner's office, I was not thinking about being the

21:10commissioner of baseball.

21:12I actually think that probably helped me because I was focused on what I was trying to do.

21:18I owe Commissioner Seelig a debt in this regard.

21:23As time went on, he gave me non-labor projects that helped broaden my experience and was

21:31really important in terms of me ultimately becoming commissioner.

21:36I don't know what he had in mind.

21:38Honestly, we've never talked about it.

21:40But he did broaden my experience in a way that was really important for me.

21:43Well, it goes back to listening to an interview you did years ago,

21:47something that your dad told you when you first took the job, which was,

21:50pay attention to this job you have, do the best you can to the job you have,

21:53and the next job will take care of itself.

21:54You use that philosophy along the way.

21:57I do think it was a really important piece of advice, particularly when you're young

22:02and you're anxious to-

22:04Get to the next step.

22:04Yeah, you want to go to the next step.

22:07Usually, the best way to get the next step is make sure the step you're on,

22:10you're doing a good job.

22:12Just do your job and everything else will take care of itself.

22:15So as you're navigating Cornell, and then you go to Harvard, and you end up in MLB,

22:19it was like 1987 around that time, helping them out.

22:22I started outside in 1987.

22:24And then you get to League in 1998, working in labor operations, finance, and then COO.

22:30But I saw an interesting stat, and I wanted to bring it up to you.

22:34And that is, in 1998, the average MLB team was worth $194 million.

22:41Today, that number is about $2 plus billion.

22:45Now, that was in 1998 when you first got your full-time job.

22:48Here you are as commissioner, and these teams are worth an average $2 billion.

22:52Is that mind-blowing to you, or did you always see this coming?

22:55I think that the growth in franchise values in all sports, not just ours,

23:00has been absolutely phenomenal.

23:02And I think in a lot of ways, not foreseeable.

23:06I remember when the Dodgers bankruptcy happened, and it was for sale.

23:10You know, people started talking about numbers, and it ultimately sold for over $2 billion.

23:17Even at that time, I'm thinking, wow, that's some move.

23:21It's been a great asset class.

23:22Yeah, it has.

23:23I mean, listen, and you speaking of that, I was just with Goldman Sachs' Dave Dossi.

23:28Yeah, I'm a big fan of Dave.

23:31I went back to a 2019 interview, and this is what you said, quoting,

23:35understanding the substance of what's at issue is thinking about the interests of the other side

23:41and how you can address those interests in a way that you can get to an agreement, right?

23:45And you were explaining how preparation is big when it comes down to negotiation,

23:50because you're able to adjust on the fly when you're in that.

23:54Is that key to how Rob Manfred negotiates still in 2025, being much prepared?

23:59I think the single biggest mistake that people make in negotiations

24:03is that they focus on what they need exclusively.

24:08And, you know, creative solutions, solutions that can be win-win, and I do believe there are,

24:14you know, some people don't believe there's such a thing as a win-win solution.

24:17I do, and I think the opportunity to develop those kind of solutions is always grounded in

24:24not only understanding what you need to get,

24:27but trying to understand what the other guy really needs out of the deal.

24:30Yeah, absolutely. I mean, do you want to see that?

24:32I mean, you get entrepreneurs approaching MLB all the time trying to do business, right?

24:36Is that what you want to see in those pitch decks,

24:38that they did the preparation to understand what they can bring to your league?

24:42Yeah, I think in terms of people pitching us for business,

24:46the single biggest differentiator is preparation

24:50and knowledge about our side of the table as opposed to just their side of the table.

24:56Yeah. Is there anything else specifically that you look for in a deal from an entrepreneur?

25:00Well, you know, I think that I look for people who are passionate

25:05about what it is they're trying to sell us on.

25:10You know, I think it's very hard to be successful if you don't believe in the business you're in,

25:17and I look for people who seem to really believe in themselves, believe in the business,

25:22believe in the product that they have,

25:24and those people usually turn out to be the best partners.

25:28Yeah. What's the one trait that you use to navigate

25:31your role from getting to, again, 1998, get to the door,

25:34and then getting up the ladder to commission?

25:36Again, you probably wasn't aiming for it, taking it step by step,

25:39but what's the one trait outside of preparation?

25:42I know you said you were a huge data analytics guy, the numbers,

25:44because you can't change people's thinking,

25:46so you might as well just present them with numbers,

25:48but what is that one trait that really helps you along the way?

25:50Yeah, I think that, you know, I use the phrase technical competence.

25:56You know, I think it's really important, particularly for leaders,

26:00to have an in-depth competence in the various areas that they're trying to lead.

26:06You know, you need to, it's not good enough to have a great CFO and rely on him, okay?

26:12You're not going to get the most from that person unless you understand

26:17in detail the finances of the organization.

26:20I think it is, you know, it's a constant learning process

26:25in order to stay up to speed, to stay current,

26:28but I think that technical competence is really important.

26:30I like that, technical competence.

26:33Another thing that really stood out to me, again,

26:35it gets back to what you were saying about momentum, right?

26:37Momentum is a process, is a momentum to the process.

26:41You need momentum to get a deal.

26:43The tricky thing is managing the momentum so that you're not chasing a deal, right?

26:47I love that quote, and I wanted you to kind of explain that to, again,

26:50entrepreneurs who may watch the show,

26:52managing the momentum so you're not chasing it,

26:55but using it effectively.

26:56Elaborate on that.

26:57Well, I think, let's start with the momentum piece.

27:01You know, good communication and dialogue across a negotiating table.

27:06If you're actually communicating with each other,

27:08it creates flexibility, right?

27:12The idea it's possible to get there motivates people

27:15maybe to take a little chance and do a little more than they're wanting to do.

27:19Here's the problem.

27:22You can get carried away with that emotion,

27:24and it is emotional, just like any other emotion,

27:27and you can start to get into a mode where,

27:30oh, I have to have it and I'm so close,

27:33and it's, you know, just two more things I have to give up.

27:37That's the back and forth that you have to manage.

27:40Yeah, most definitely.

27:41I love that quote that I decided to bring it up there.

27:43I hate always quoting all these interviews that I watched over the last

27:46because you're knowing my secret now.

27:47You know, the other thing I would say about that,

27:49pace is really important.

27:53Why is that important?

27:54Well, I think that if you move too slow, you lose your momentum,

28:00but if momentum starts to take over, you move fast,

28:05and that's when you make mistakes.

28:06You realize after the fact,

28:08oh, my God, I thought it was worth $2,

28:11and it was really worth $102, you know?

28:14So it's a combination of preparation, momentum, pace,

28:18and using analytical data to make sure that you're checking.

28:22Yeah, if you have that great analytical base,

28:24and I've been really, I mean, the support people

28:27that I've had around me in big deals, you know,

28:30particularly the labor deals, outstanding people,

28:33and they can be a great check on getting going too fast,

28:40going back to them and saying,

28:42hey, I'm thinking this is worth this,

28:44and they tell you, no, it's really worth that.

28:46That's what you want to be doing.

28:48Most definitely.

28:49As, listen, Matt and Pat, you're two calm guys,

28:52very good guys for me.

28:54They know this is a very key issue for me,

28:55which is black players in MLB.

28:57I always talk about it.

28:59Down from 1991, I'm looking at 18% in 1991,

29:03again, a time when I was growing up,

29:04falling in love with baseball.

29:05You see so many players, which is why I fell in love with it,

29:08and just 6.3 today.

29:10I had a very good talk with a good friend of mine,

29:12Michael Lee of the Washington Post,

29:13and he reminded me of,

29:15there are improvements being made, right?

29:17You have the programs, the draft,

29:20up-and-coming players, right?

29:21Justin Crawford, Cam Collier, Hunter Green,

29:24but there still needs to be progress

29:27to kind of get it back up.

29:28What are you guys looking,

29:30what are you doing to kind of make sure

29:31that that trend is still going back up?

29:33If I had to give you one word, it would be investment.

29:36Investment.

29:37You need to invest,

29:39particularly in playing opportunities

29:42in communities where they don't exist,

29:47in order to attract more people

29:49out of those underserved communities.

29:52We have been doing that since the day I started.

29:55Our commitment to it is stronger today than ever.

29:59I think that it has shown return already

30:03in terms of the makeup of the top of our draft.

30:06I think 20% of the draft choices the last five years

30:11have been people of color, which is important to us.

30:14And now we need to make sure,

30:16the next step is making sure those people

30:18come through our minor league system

30:21and actually develop into the kind of major league players

30:24that we hope they become.

30:26So we're trying to obviously continue to spend

30:29where we're spending,

30:31but focus particularly on the minor league process,

30:34get those people through the minor leagues sooner, quicker,

30:38and make sure that they have every opportunity

30:41to excel at the major league level.

30:42When you hear the line, and I've heard it before,

30:45and I understand both sides over the years,

30:46that baseball doesn't do enough to promote its players.

30:51And I say, well, in talking to Mookie Betts,

30:54it's two-sided, right?

30:55He obviously came out and said,

30:56listen, we also, as players, need to be there.

30:58We need to show up to certain communities.

31:00And it's hard to get players who play 162 games out to do stuff.

31:04They're superstitious.

31:05It's hard.

31:06I get it, it's both sides,

31:07but where can you find compromise

31:10so that way you can start to see-

31:11You gotta be smart about managing their schedule.

31:14We have a great social media program

31:17that we set up for players that makes it easy for them

31:21to be more active on social media.

31:23They can just grab clips.

31:25We work with a vendor, Greenfly, I think is the name.

31:31It's Sean Green's company.

31:37When you have programs like that

31:40that make it easy for players to engage,

31:44you get results.

31:46Our social activity has gone crazy

31:49since we started this program,

31:50and providing support and opportunity

31:53for players to do it in an easy way is absolutely crucial.

31:56Secondly, it's about relationships.

31:59Mookie's a great example.

32:02We had a little relationship with him.

32:05When they were out of the postseason a couple years ago,

32:07he wanted to do some work with Fox,

32:09which we helped arrange.

32:11He paid back by becoming the spokesman

32:15for our award show in Las Vegas.

32:17Those sort of relationships are really important

32:20in terms of driving the marketing of players.

32:22I will tell you,

32:23everything we do from a marketing perspective,

32:26if you look back over the last 10 years,

32:28there's one thing in common about that marketing,

32:30and it's all about players.

32:33Over the last few days, Rob,

32:34I've been thinking a lot about Jimmy Lee Solomon.

32:38I wrote an article on Jimmy Lee years ago.

32:42He was so enthusiastic about the academy

32:46that he had opened up,

32:47the baseball academy in Compton.

32:49As I'm thinking about him,

32:50it's Hunter Green learned to play baseball

32:52at that particular academy.

32:53Then you're thinking about somebody today

32:55reminded me of Wendell Smith, 1947,

32:59the first black writer to have a car

33:03for baseball writers of America.

33:05So to see the headline that you guys took diversity

33:09out off the website

33:10and all of the stuff that's going on there,

33:13I understand DEI is under attack,

33:15but why remove that word, the diversity word,

33:17especially being as though that MLB

33:19is the most diverse league

33:21of all the professional sports,

33:23by far, right?

33:24The most diverse league,

33:25and you look at the history there,

33:27Jackie Robinson D is coming up.

33:28Why remove that word?

33:29What was the thinking behind that decision?

33:31Well, I am, if nothing else, pragmatic.

33:37I have paid very close attention

33:39to what's going on in Washington.

33:41The EOC issued some guidance just last week

33:44that was pretty pointed about

33:48certain red flag issues

33:50with respect to programs.

33:52Our view was that we should go through our programs,

33:56do the very best we could

33:58to make sure that we would not be a target.

34:02And if we avoid being a target,

34:04we can continue with those programs

34:06to do all the good work we've done

34:08over a series of years

34:11and avoid the situation

34:12where you become a target

34:14and the programs get blown up altogether.

34:19I was managing my downside.

34:20Maybe it's the best way to say it.

34:23I think it's important to say,

34:24and I will say it again,

34:26our values have not changed.

34:29You know, we're gonna continue to pursue those values,

34:33but we are cognizant of what the legal environment is

34:35and we're gonna tailor our programs

34:37so that they survive.

34:39Yeah, so the league is still committed

34:41to making sure that those programs

34:42that develop are longstanding.

34:44Absolutely, and they may need to be

34:46a little broader in scope than they used to be,

34:48but you know, that's fine too.

34:50You know, I mean, there's nothing wrong

34:51with developing a lot of good people.

34:52Yeah, another question I got from someone

34:54when I asked about this particular interview,

34:56and he said, does Jackie Robinson

34:57change at all with the fact

34:58that the diversity issue,

35:00and then obviously the government

35:02removing Jackie Robinson's history,

35:03replacing it back,

35:04but does that change at all for MLB?

35:07You know, I think Jackie Robinson

35:09transcends any debate

35:12that's going on in today's society

35:15about issues surrounding DEI.

35:17I mean, what Jackie Robinson stands for

35:21was moving us past an overt

35:25kind of segregation

35:27that I don't believe anybody

35:29actually supports today,

35:31and he's a symbol of that,

35:33and he's an important part of our history,

35:35and we will continue to celebrate him

35:36as we always have.

35:38Have you heard from any players,

35:39you know, whether it be Blacks,

35:40CeCe Bathey, I know you're very close with him,

35:42Jackie Robinson's family,

35:43about that diversity issue?

35:44No, I have not.

35:45I mean, CeCe and I have talked about it,

35:47but I haven't heard from the Robinson family.

35:49You know, I think

35:50this is a situation in which,

35:55because things are changing,

35:56you have to make tough choices

35:58about managing upside and downside,

36:01and I think, you know,

36:02if you really think through

36:05and listen to why we did what we did,

36:08I would summarize it with the notion

36:10that we want to continue to make progress

36:12and make sure that we don't become a target

36:14by being too overtly

36:17on the wrong side of the line

36:20since the EEOC is drawing right now.

36:21Absolutely.

36:22Get you out of here on some fun stuff, man.

36:24Look at Head Close.

36:26I always started with the million dollar question,

36:28right?

36:28The million dollar question.

36:29I know you got it, Rob, so you can't lie.

36:31Your first million,

36:32I think I know how you made it, right?

36:34Through lawyering and MLB?

36:35How did you spend it?

36:37You know, that's interesting.

36:40The only time I've actually,

36:43other than houses,

36:45written a check for a million dollars,

36:47it was a charitable donation.

36:48Wow.

36:49Yeah.

36:49Wow.

36:50So your first million was a charitable donation?

36:51That is phenomenal.

36:52So you wouldn't change anything about that.

36:54No, I mean,

36:55I think it's important to try to give back

36:59to, you know,

37:00particularly institutions that were significant

37:03in your development

37:04or stand for things that are important

37:08in terms of your own value system.

37:10100%.

37:11Baseball outlook stuff, right?

37:12You do have some stadium issues

37:14going on in Tampa.

37:15I believe Oakland is getting theirs resolved

37:16with the expansion.

37:18What's the latest there?

37:19I know there are ambitions of expanding

37:21eventually to 32,

37:22but you've made it clear on record,

37:24nothing has happened

37:25and NCD Stadium issues are resolved.

37:26Yeah, look, I think,

37:28I think the,

37:29I consider the A's resolved.

37:31Yeah, that's...

37:32I really do.

37:33You know, they're going to go on the ground.

37:34They're going to open in 28 in Las Vegas.

37:36I think they're going to be wildly successful.

37:38I've been told by stadium people

37:39to not believe it until the actual roof is on.

37:41That's the rule, though.

37:42That's what they say.

37:43Yeah, look, there's always timing issues,

37:45but they're going to Vegas

37:47and I think there's a lot of excitement

37:50surrounding the potential

37:51for baseball in Las Vegas.

37:54Tampa is a difficult situation.

37:55You know, if you told me

37:57or you asked me six months ago,

37:58I thought they were resolved, you know,

38:00and then a hurricane blows the roof off,

38:02the deal for the new stadium falls apart.

38:05Our focus right now is getting the trop fixed

38:08so that we have a major league facility

38:09to play in next year.

38:11And then we're going to have to regroup

38:14with Mr. Sternberg and figure out

38:16what his view is for the franchise longer term.

38:20I remain of the view

38:22that 32 is the right number for us

38:24and there are cities, a number of them,

38:27that have made, you know,

38:28significant pledges

38:30in terms of governmental support

38:32to build stadiums and whatnot

38:34that want major league baseball

38:35and we should try to meet that demand.

38:37Yeah, two of them, Nashville's up and coming city, right?

38:40And a place that I hold near and dear to my heart

38:42because I lived there,

38:43I covered the blazes is Portland.

38:44I know they have been really, really adamant

38:46about trying to get his thing.

38:47Is it a possibility, is it real that,

38:50you know, that community,

38:51are they in the running

38:52or should they just stop?

38:53Yeah, no, look, I think that if we expand,

38:57we need a Western time zone team,

39:00you know, just to balance out the divisions.

39:03Yeah.

39:03And I think in the Western time zone,

39:06Portland's a real competitor.

39:07Yeah, I love Portland, I'm telling you.

39:09Well, it ends raining in the summertime either,

39:10so you're safe, I'm telling you.

39:12A quote, again, 2024,

39:14this is what you said in February from Tampa, Florida.

39:17You can only have so much fun in one lifetime.

39:20I've been open with the owners about the fact

39:22that this is gonna be my last term, right?

39:24You have four years left on your deal.

39:26Is it still, you're still done after this one?

39:29Yeah, I am, you know, I think that

39:33it's a combination of two things.

39:35First of all, you know, I'm gonna be,

39:36I'll be 70 at the end.

39:38That's still young though, Rob.

39:39It is, but you know, I've had a job

39:41since I was 14 and you know,

39:43I have some other things I'd like to do in my life.

39:46But secondly, I think that an institution

39:53benefits from a fresh look in the 10 to 15 year range.

39:59You know, you got 10 or 15 years,

40:01you put your mark on the institution.

40:04It's time to bring somebody in with a new agenda

40:06and let them try to move the institution forward.

40:09Yeah, I'm available if you need me.

40:10Okay, I gotcha.

40:11But right now, you're a vice

40:13to the next commissioner coming in,

40:14like as we sit today in 2025,

40:16we'll be your vice to the next commissioner coming in.

40:18Fasten your seatbelt.

40:21I like that, I like that.

40:22Also, man, all right, listen,

40:24again, getting back to the media rights thing,

40:25is it possible we see MLB, Netflix?

40:29Look, there's a lot of the new media companies

40:32have interest in baseball.

40:34If you think about it, you know,

40:35if you're a streaming service,

40:38maybe the biggest challenge, right?

40:40Is providing fresh content all the time.

40:43And my number for them is 2,430.

40:46That's how many games we got every year.

40:48Yeah, absolutely.

40:49Brand new.

40:49Absolutely.

40:50So that means get the bag out.

40:51You're gonna have to pay some money.

40:53If you look around the world, right?

40:55And you had to pick one country where Rob Manford,

40:57not the commissioner of MLB,

40:59but Rob Manford would say,

41:00I'm gonna invest some money over there.

41:02What country would it be?

41:04Oh, that's an interesting question.

41:06You know, I honestly,

41:08going back to something I said earlier,

41:11I think it might be India.

41:12India.

41:13It's just the sheer volume of people

41:16suggest to me that, you know,

41:18there's gonna be upside there.

41:20You know, you read so much now about population

41:22and declining populations in certain countries.

41:25Don't have that issue.

41:26And it does seem like it's a place

41:29that it would be right for investment.

41:32Yeah.

41:32Labor agreement coming up 2020.

41:34So I covered the last one.

41:35I am not doing this one, man.

41:36That is a walk down the park.

41:38I do not want.

41:39It is crazy, but you know,

41:40a lot in your bag coming up

41:41before you leave out of the door, right?

41:43Yeah.

41:43Do you try to get anything struck early

41:45so you don't have to avoid the issues?

41:47I mean, what is the one concern that you see?

41:48Again, preparation.

41:49Yeah.

41:50Right now, it could be a problem.

41:51I've always been a go early guy.

41:53Yeah.

41:54I don't believe particularly, you know,

41:56remember our basic agreement,

41:58I think it's 465 pages.

42:01So trying to do it in a rush

42:03is never a great idea.

42:05I mean, it's a really complicated agreement.

42:09And I hope we can get started on it early,

42:11have some real meaningful dialogue about,

42:14you know, what the issues are facing the game

42:16and how we might make it better for everybody.

42:18And I do believe there's a chance

42:19to make it better for everybody.

42:20Yeah.

42:21I mean, that's salary or a luxury tax thing

42:22and owner spending.

42:23That might be an issue.

42:25Yeah.

42:25Well, look, we have a lot of disparity,

42:27particularly on the payroll side.

42:28And you know, when you sell competition.

42:31Yeah.

42:31You know, disparity is an issue.

42:33Absolutely.

42:35Forbes be OK.

42:36Our leadership platform at Forbes.

42:38Can you give me a top three books

42:40that inspires you to perform your best

42:42or motivated you?

42:43Oh, my top three.

42:45Well, I can tell you one for sure.

42:47The Agenda Movers.

42:49The Agenda Movers.

42:50Who's that by?

42:50Samuel Bacharach.

42:52He's actually a professor at Cornell.

42:56You know, great kind of practical

42:59look at leadership.

43:00You know, it's not a vision charisma book.

43:02It's more, you know, how do you convince people

43:06that your agenda is the one

43:08that they should follow?

43:09Yeah.

43:10You know, there's a real overlay of, you know,

43:13knowledge about your business

43:14and political skills that, you know,

43:18actually can be a crossover book,

43:20you know, business to politics.

43:21Yeah.

43:21Agenda Movers.

43:22Yeah.

43:22The Agenda Movers.

43:23He's written a whole series of books.

43:25He's an interesting guy

43:26and kind of a unique take

43:27on the topic of leadership.

43:30You know, I paid a lot of attention

43:36to President Bush's book.

43:39You know, I knew President Bush

43:41when he was the owner of the Rangers.

43:44And I think his kind of journey

43:49through, you know, highs and lows

43:51is one that contains

43:53some interesting insights

43:54into, you know, managing the ups and downs

43:57of a job like this,

43:58where the public's kind of voting on you

44:00every day with their feet.

44:01Absolutely.

44:02Really interesting.

44:02Nice, nice.

44:03Get you out of here on this.

44:04My favorite book, business book,

44:06Good to Great, Jim Collins.

44:07What's the difference

44:08between a good commissioner

44:10and a great one?

44:11You've been around some.

44:13Yeah, I think the difference

44:15between a good commissioner

44:16and a great commissioner

44:18is the willingness to undertake change.

44:21I think that, you know,

44:24riding the status quo,

44:29because sports has a lot of,

44:31you know, strong status quo,

44:33stay with me,

44:34we don't need to change anything,

44:36sentiment in it.

44:38I think the problem with that

44:39is the world leaves you behind

44:41when you just, you know,

44:43ride the status quo.

44:44You got to be willing to take a chance.

44:46Every change that you undertake,

44:48you know, we talked about the clock before.

44:50I mean, I'll tell you the truth.

44:50We, you know, studied it,

44:52used it in the minor leagues.

44:54I had all sorts of data

44:55and all sorts of smart people telling me

44:57it was all going to be fine.

44:58And, you know, we kind of got

45:00to the day before the season,

45:01and literally I had this like panic.

45:03Oh my God, what's going to happen

45:05if this goes badly?

45:06You know, you're going to get

45:07a lot of emails and phone calls.

45:07Yeah, it's a big risk, you know,

45:09and it's more than emails and phone calls.

45:11Although if something,

45:13particularly when you do something

45:14that's on the field,

45:15it's ugly, it can be ugly, you know,

45:17and, you know, that's a huge risk.

45:20It takes guts to, you know,

45:22figure out what the change is,

45:24work through the process

45:26to the point that you're comfortable

45:28that the change you're proposing

45:30is actually going to make it better.

45:32You know, do some research

45:33about what your fans think

45:34so that you know where they are

45:36and make sure that what you think

45:37is a good change,

45:38they think is a good change.

45:41It's a real process,

45:43but I do think it's important

45:44in terms of currency,

45:46even in something like sports

45:48where people are really attached to it.

45:49Yeah, absolutely.

45:50Rob, listen, I appreciate

45:52the insight, the dialogue,

45:53the transparency, man.

45:54This is a very,

45:55always good to catch up with you.

45:57We can't be doing this

45:58every five years though.

45:58We got to make it like

45:59at least every two or something.

46:00I know you're busy,

46:01but you're on your way out.

46:02I got to get you at least one more time.

46:04You got to get my man, Pat,

46:05to be a little more responsive.

46:06Apparently I have friends now.

46:08There you go.

46:09I appreciate it.

46:10Rob Manford here at the Nasdaq,

46:12the Enterprise Zone.

Category

Transcript

Recommended