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00:00Hello, Tell Us Your English presents a new episode of China Now, a Wave Media's production
00:14that showcases the culture, technology and politics of the Asian giant.
00:18In this first segment, China Currents dives into the top stories of the week, like Africa
00:23highlighting that Taiwan is part of China and the Asian giant's incursion into space
00:29and solar panel technology. Let's take a look.
00:35China Currents is a weekly news talk show from China to the world. We cover viral news
00:40about China every week and also give you the newest updates on China's cutting-edge technologies.
00:46Let's get started.
00:56Welcome to China Currents, your weekly news report on the latest developments in China.
01:02I'm Mimi, and in this episode, China warns Walmart. South Africa highlights Taiwan is
01:09part of China. China's breakthrough on space solar panel technology. First, let's explore
01:16how Beijing has warned Walmart. On March 12th, the Chinese Ministry of Commerce issued a
01:22stern warning to Walmart. The root cause traces back to Trump's new tariff war. On
01:28March 3rd, the US announced two additional tariff hikes totaling 20% on Chinese goods.
01:35And by March 6th, Reuters revealed that Walmart was demanding that Chinese textile suppliers
01:41implement an immediate 10% price cut, followed by phased reductions totaling 20%. This clearly
01:50showed Walmart's attempt to fully transfer Trump-induced losses to Chinese suppliers.
01:56Chinese official media immediately pointed out that this was disrupting the market order.
02:02Actually, public data that is well known to anyone involved in international trade
02:08shows that Walmart's actions are essentially robbery rather than business negotiation.
02:13According to statistics from the China National Garment Association,
02:18the average profit margin in China's textile industry in 2024 was only 3.9%. Walmart's overall
02:2620% price reduction effectively forces Chinese companies to deliver products at a 16.1% loss.
02:36Most people might interpret a 16% loss to mean, I have invested $1 million to set up a factory
02:43and lose $160,000 in a year. However, this 16% refers to the loss per production cycle.
02:52In the textile and apparel industry, the process which starts from purchasing raw materials to the
02:58finished product leaving the factory is known as the production cycle. For example, in the apparel
03:05and bag categories commonly sold at Walmart, each batch is delivered within 20 to 45 days.
03:12If we assume an average of 30 days per cycle, this means there are 12 cycles in a year,
03:18leading to an annualized loss rate of 87.66%. By the end of the year, an investment valued
03:27at $1 million would be worth less than $130,000. In China, the more competitive the apparel companies,
03:36the higher the automation in their production lines, and the shorter the production cycle.
03:41Take China's best-known Chinese clothing manufacturer, Shenzhou International,
03:46who works closely with Nike, Lululemon, and many others. Its Ningbo factory can achieve delivery
03:54in as little as 15 days, which is twice as fast as the international standard.
04:00This means that if Chinese companies accept Walmart's demands, the more competitive they are,
04:06the greater their losses, a situation that completely defies market principles.
04:12Retail Insight Network noted that Walmart has a long-standing approach
04:17of aggressively minimizing purchase costs to sustain its market leadership position,
04:23which already pushed Chinese suppliers to operate on razor-thin margins. In fact,
04:30any reduction beyond 2% could cause these manufacturers to incur losses.
04:35For companies primarily engaged in export trade, fluctuations in exchange rates and
04:41changes in payment cycles can significantly affect profit margins. With an original profit margin
04:47of only 3.9%, Chinese companies are barely staying afloat. And as the world's largest retailer,
04:55Walmart cannot possibly be unaware of this fact.
04:59CNN points out that many businesses are struggling under Trump's chaotic tariff announcements,
05:05including retailers. However, this criticism essentially serves as a cover-up for Walmart.
05:11According to Walmart's financial report released in February 2025, it has enjoyed a healthy top
05:18line in fiscal 2025, with its sales, profit, and earnings surpassing expectations in the fourth
05:26quarter of financial year 25, with its gross margin rate improved by 53 basis points.
05:34It is expected that net sales for fiscal year 2026 will grow at a similar rate of 3% to 4%.
05:43Clearly, Walmart is not in any difficulty. Rather, under the guise of an industry downturn,
05:50it is pushing Chinese companies into a desperate situation. This unnecessary malice immediately
05:56prompted a meeting with the Chinese government, who warned that if Walmart insists on having
06:01suppliers cut prices, then what awaits Walmart is not just talk. Walmart holds no real leverage
06:10over China, but remains heavily dependent on it. Its financial report acknowledged that the growth
06:16was principally driven by Chinese, Mexican, and Canadian markets. Moreover, Fox News has pointed
06:24out that 60% of Walmart's supply chain depends on China. This is why on the 13th of March,
06:32the Chinese Ministry of Commerce stated that Walmart's threats and intimidation would backfire.
06:38As the Global Times commented, without Chinese suppliers, more than half of Walmart's shelves
06:44would be empty. Walmart's slogan is, save money, live better. But while saving money from Chinese
06:51suppliers, do American people really live better? According to The Sun, in February 2025, Walmart's
06:59egg prices were raised to $15 per dozen, and American customers are even taking out loans
07:06just to afford a bite of an egg. Now it appears that platforms like Shein and Timu,
07:12which enable American consumers to spend less while protecting Chinese suppliers from extortion,
07:18might actually be the ones more deserving of the slogan, save money, live better.
07:24Next up, the Taiwan question. On March 16, according to Global Times, South Africa has
07:31officially renamed the Taipei Liaison Office as the Taipei Commercial Office on its website.
07:38South African media outlet IOL described the renaming as more accurately reflecting the
07:44role and nature of the office. The office was originally established in Pretoria,
07:50one of South Africa's capital cities. On October 7 of last year, the South African government
07:56demanded that the office relocate without offering any room for negotiation. South
08:02African officials argued that since the relationship between South Africa and Taiwan
08:07only involves unofficial economic and cultural exchanges, the office should be situated in
08:13Johannesburg, the country's economic hub, rather than Pretoria, its political center.
08:19Before the renaming, the office facilitated cooperation between Taiwan and South Africa
08:25in economic, academic, technological, and cultural fields, performing functions akin
08:31to those of an embassy. Being in South Africa's political center also allowed it to handle the
08:36exchanges with other African countries, including Rwanda, Kenya, and Zambia. The recent renaming,
08:44however, clearly restricts Taiwan's activities exclusively to commercial affairs, prohibiting
08:51all unrelated activities. On the 13th of March, Taiwan regional leader Lai
08:57Ching-de falsely claimed that Taiwan is a sovereign and independent nation, but among
09:03Africa's 54 real sovereign states, only Eswatini is still maintaining relations with the Taiwan
09:10separatist authorities for money. According to a report done by Global Times, in 2018 alone,
09:18Taiwan allocated over $41 million in aid to Eswatini, most of which reportedly benefited
09:26the royal family. For instance, Taiwan spent approximately $1.7 million to sponsor fireworks
09:35and celebrations for the Eswatini king's birthday party in 2018. Furthermore, Eswatini's Observer
09:43newspaper reported that Taiwan's China Airlines provided King Miswati III with an Airbus A340-300
09:52private jet and services worth about $13 million, despite the aircraft's market cost exceeding $200
10:01million. On the other hand, currently, over 60% of Eswatini's population remains in extreme poverty,
10:10with less than 10% of the country being arable land. However, while Taipei is trying to buy
10:18fake diplomatic relations, China is using its actions to gain true friendship within the global
10:24south. For example, in 2023, a Chinese naval hospital ship provided free medical services
10:32to over 10,000 residents in Honiara, the capital of the Solomon Islands. In 2024,
10:39Solomon Islands Prime Minister Manase Sogavare publicly praised China for its significant
10:45contributions to the country's economic development, noting that even during decades of ties
10:51with Taipei, the nation had continuously struggled economically. On the other hand, Lithuania had
10:58swallowed the bitter consequences of provoking China's red line. In 2021, Lithuania, disregarding
11:06China's strong protests and repeated representations, allowed the setup of a Taiwanese
11:13representative office in Lithuania. This act openly created the false impression of one China,
11:20one Taiwan. As a response, China's imports from Lithuania have been greatly reduced.
11:28From 2021 to 2023, the GDP growth of Lithuania has dropped from 6.4% to 0.3%.
11:38As of 2024, over 60% of Lithuanians believe that the government should not interfere
11:45in China's internal affairs. Lithuania Prime Minister Gintautas Palukas admitted that was
11:52a grave diplomatic mistake. Moving on, on March 17th, China's Shenyang Aerospace University
12:01unveiled a groundbreaking design for a space solar power station. The proposed system involves
12:08collecting solar energy in space, converting it into electricity, and transmitting it to Earth
12:14via microwaves, thereby providing continuous 24-hour clean energy. The concept of an SSPS
12:23was first introduced by American scientist Peter Glaser, but for half a century it remained purely
12:30theoretical. In contrast, the Chinese research team has now presented a comprehensive
12:37implementation plan covering the entire process from ground-based experiments to space deployment.
12:45They have achieved significant technological breakthroughs in engineering design,
12:50solar energy collection, and power transmission, moving this previously science fiction concept
12:57closer to reality. Additionally, Chinese scientists have proposed space solar power
13:03solutions as part of a broader strategy that includes space mining. According to a report
13:11from Guancha on March 16th, China University of Mining and Technology successfully developed
13:17China's first space mining robot. This robot effectively completed walking, anchoring,
13:24and sampling operations in simulated lunar surface conditions. Researchers stated that
13:31the experiments accurately replicated the moon's environment. While Chinese scientists pursue
13:37peaceful space exploration and innovation, aiming at breakthroughs that could benefit humanity,
13:43the United States perceives space as a battlefield with China, even considering advanced weaponry
13:50designed to disable adversaries' satellites. However, Chinese researchers have refused to
13:57be drawn into the star war. Instead, their numerous scientific breakthroughs demonstrate
14:03China's commitment to opening new frontiers in space, actively contributing to space civilization
14:10for all of mankind. That's all for today. Thank you so much for watching this episode of China
14:17Currents. If you have any thoughts or comments, please reach us at our email address. See you next time.
14:24We have a short break now, but don't go away. We'll be right back.
14:45Welcome back to China Now. Today, Thinkers Forum welcomes Chris Yang together with Guy Merton,
14:51Swiss freelance journalist and political scientist. Let's see.
15:01Welcome to Thinkers Forum. Today, we have an honored guest, Mr. Guy Merton from Switzerland,
15:08who is a Swiss journalist and politician, a member of the Swiss People's Party.
15:13So welcome, Mr. Guy Merton. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you. What motivated you to write
15:19that geopolitical incompetence of Europeans? Why were the European leaders incompetent? There are
15:24many reasons for the geopolitical European incompetence. But for me, the main problem is
15:36the Europeans have lost the grip on the international scene. Not now, but since at
15:44least 10 years, 12 years. It's not new. It's a consequence of an already, let's say, not long
15:52story, but a decade, let's say like that, a decade story. So they lost the possibility to have a weight
16:01on the international scene. What was the landmark event that happened 10 or 20 years ago? For me,
16:07it was the Maidan coup, the Maidan revolution in Ukraine in 2014. There were many, let's say,
16:16it started in 2007 at the Munich Security Conference, when President Putin asked the
16:25Europeans and the NATO countries not to include Ukraine and Georgia. And what was the result?
16:35At the time, it was in 2008, one year later, they proposed, NATO proposed to Ukraine and Georgia
16:45to become a member of NATO. It was humiliating for the Russians, because Putin had asked,
16:52please, it's a red line for us, don't do that. It was not the first time. The Russians have
16:59already said that since the 90s, since the Gorbachev-Bush negotiations 15 years ago. So
17:12that was the first, let's say, signal, the first event. And after that, there was the Georgia war.
17:20Saakashvili, the Georgian President Saakashvili, attacked the Russian troops in Oshetia in August
17:272008, when Mr. Putin was assisting to the opening of the Beijing Olympic Games in August 28. That
17:36was the second hit for the Russians. And after that, you know, tensions were growing. And the
17:42Europeans were more or less careful during this time. They said, no, we don't so agree.
17:51We should wait for Ukraine membership in NATO. But they didn't stop it properly. And after that,
18:00with the Ukraine coup, the Ukraine Orange Revolution, let's say like that in 2014,
18:08they entered and they lost, because they accepted the coup, even if Mrs. Noland,
18:18Victoria Noland, the Assistant US Secretary General, when she said to his ambassador,
18:25Geoffrey Piat, when she said, fuck the EU, it was tough for the Europeans, but they didn't react.
18:34But why? Why is she doing? She's insulting us. So how should EU react? How should EU react?
18:42Nothing. Now, in your view, how should the Europeans react?
18:47You know that they should say, but please, don't insult us. We are Europeans. You are in Europe.
18:54And so we are European. So we have to, they had to say to Mrs. Noland, but, you know, you cannot
19:02say that. It's insulting for us. I mean, on a broader context. To put the Americans a little
19:08bit, you know, to say no to the Americans. And secondly, to be in the front in Ukraine.
19:15If you remember, in February 2014, the European ministers, Mr. Steinmeier, who is actually
19:26president of Germany, he was foreign minister at the time, French foreign minister, Mr. Fabius,
19:33they signed an agreement with the Ukrainian president, saying, accepting for elections,
19:43for smooth change and a smooth adaptation. But it was completely destroyed by the actions of
19:52the Americans. And the European state, oh, yes, you know, they accepted without a word.
19:58And it was a missed opportunity, you know, to affirm, to assert themselves and to say
20:09to the Americans, we will be in charge. And after, with the Minsk agreement,
20:15they signed the agreement, the same ones with the Germans and the French, Russian and Donbass
20:22region and Ukrainians. But they did anything. The Europeans did anything to support the
20:30implementation of the Minsk agreement. So, if you are dismissed, you know, if you do nothing
20:43after that, 10 years later, you are completely sidelined and you cannot ask to be suddenly at
20:50the first place for negotiations, you know. So, that was this kind of missed opportunities. And
20:58the other problem of the Europeans, in my view, that's the, let's say, the incompetent leadership.
21:06I am very critical with that, because all the European presidents, if you look at them,
21:16they have no awareness about their own history. They don't know the history of Ukraine.
21:24They don't know even their own history of their own national history, let's say, because they are
21:31young, let's say, MBA or business MBA. They have a formation, a dedication without the basic
21:44historical. So, how did this class of leaders come into power, these MBAs? Yeah, that's a good
21:52question, you know. For me, typical of this formation are the Canadian first minister, Mr. Trudeau, or
22:01the French president, Mr. Macron, you know, because they came from the business.
22:07But they are able to speak, they are very good speakers,
22:15you know, in our type of democracy. If you master your speech, that's a power.
22:25And they are able to sell, you know, they are marketing managers. They are champions of marketing,
22:32but they have not the backbone, you know, the backbone and the historical perspective to be
22:42able to understand the full context. And that's the problem, the problem of this kind of leadership.
22:50Let's assume that there is this competent, totally competent European leader with backbone.
22:57So, how should he, what policies, what kind of strategy should he pursue now in the face of the
23:05Russian-Ukrainian crisis? The Europeans, you mean? The Europeans, yes, the EU leaders. No,
23:11they react. The good thing is now, yes, that they seem to react,
23:20because, but it's a little bit what I call the kerosene diplomacy. You know, the kerosene
23:27diplomacy, it's organizing summits. They organized two summits a week. Last week, there were two
23:35summits, one in Paris, one in London, and now there is another one in Brussels, you know. So,
23:42every week, they organize summits. Kerosene, you know, they took, they take planes for a summit.
23:51But the problem, you don't solve the security problem in Europe and the war in Ukraine
23:59with summits, with kerosene. You have to give, to accept the idea of,
24:08to accept that the world has changed, the context has changed. There is a new presidency
24:15in America. There are new, let's say, collaborations, for instance, between Russia and China.
24:24So, they didn't, they are not yet aware of that, you know, for instance.
24:32It's not, the problem is not to gather, it's to have a plan and to have a strategy.
24:42But they have no strategy, and that's the problem. To have, to build a strategy,
24:48you have to understand the full context. And in my view, it's not yet the case. They are
24:56beginning to do it, but it's completely new. They are starting to, they began to do it
25:03since two weeks or three weeks, you know, and it's a little bit late. But I hope they will succeed,
25:12because if you ask me, for me, the goal, the strategic goal of Europe should be the strategic
25:20autonomy of the European continent, of the European countries. It should be economic,
25:30strategic independence. It should be security, strategic independence of autonomy.
25:39It should be also political independence. If you are completely submitted, if you are completely
25:46vassalized by the United States, you have no autonomy. So, now, the goal of the European
25:54leaders should be to recreate a strategic autonomy, for instance, in developing relations with China.
26:03It could be, you know, as there are intentions with Russia, the problem of Europe,
26:09that they fight against Russia in Ukraine, they fight against China, because of some economic
26:19rivalry and also under the influence of the US. And now, since one month, they are also fighting
26:28against America, against the United States. But it's impossible. Europe alone cannot fight
26:35against three, you know, three adversaries. They have to choose. But the problem, I mean,
26:42that they have not yet understood, they are starting to understand.
26:49Right, right. So, that was a very…
26:51And there is an opportunity for China, in my view, for China and for Europeans,
26:56to develop some closer ties together. Because Europeans were very reluctant
27:05to develop a close tie with China these last years. But now, thanks to the new context and
27:13thanks to the, let's say, the tensions between Europeans and Trump, there is an opportunity.
27:20So, okay, now it's a very dynamic time. So, shall we look at these ties independently,
27:28the EU-US, EU-Russia and EU-China ties independently? And also, I want to discuss
27:34firstly the US and EU split, if you allow me to call it a split. Do you think it will be permanent?
27:42Or do you think it's a Republican-Democrat thing? Do you think the next administration,
27:47probably Democrats, will come into power and repair the transatlantic relationship?
27:53I think the transatlantic relations between Europe and the United States are very strong.
28:00It's one century long, let's say, since the First World War. Not so strong
28:07after the First World War until the Second World War. But since 1945, there are very
28:16these relations are very strong. And in my view, they cannot be cut. In fact, because everything,
28:26these relations are not only a problem of interest or economic interest. They are,
28:32but not only. It's also cultural, it's also historical, it's also, you know, in music,
28:39in theatre, in movies, in economy, yeah, everything, let's say like that. So, I think
28:47you cannot cut that and the split will not. Tensions will occur, as we say. Tensions can
28:55maybe go deeper, it's possible, but they will not cease, they will not be interrupted.
29:02And I am sure also for the Americans, the Americans have no interest to cut
29:09completely with Europe, because what they are trying to do, they are trying to make a new Yalta,
29:16a new, you know, distribution of areas of influence in the world with Russia now,
29:25maybe with China and soon, I don't know, but possible. But Europeans, they are allied
29:35of the United States and United States business need the Europeans. For instance,
29:42all the digital economy is dominated in Europe by the US, you know, all the Google,
29:50you know, all the giant, the Californian giants in digital, they are American. And America,
29:59it's billions, it's hundreds of billions of dollars, you know, so they cannot miss this
30:06market. And also for security, the goal of Mr. Trump is to sell weapons to the Europeans
30:14and also some energy, but mainly now weapons. And that's why I think this relation will stay
30:23maybe a little bit troubled like that, but will not be cut. But there is, in my view, if you let
30:31me seem from here, now the axis of the world has completely shifted to Asia. In my view,
30:41you have a big axis with Russia and China. That's the main axis of the world. And the
30:49collaboration between these two powers is now structuring the new world, the coming
30:57new world order. And I think this axis is now solid, because there is an experience,
31:04the economies are complementary between Russia and China. The friendship between the president
31:11is also, and the trust between them is also there. And now it's the first time in the history
31:19that a region continent is playing together. There were always wars, you know, in Eurasia,
31:28made by the British Empire, by other powers. And now the Eurasian continent works together
31:38with Russia, China, Iran, the Americans, they left Afghanistan. So now they cannot play,
31:46you know, they cannot divide, they cannot. And that's why this axis is very strong.
31:53But it will be stronger and stronger, because it's an axis with two propellers now. You have
32:02one propeller, it could be, I speak for the future, one propeller could be the new relations
32:09between USA and Russia. But Russia is still there. And the second propeller could be China and Europe.
32:18So you have the Asian or Eurasian-Chinese axis, and two propellers, you know,
32:28let's say with two horizontal axes, Russia-US and China-Europe can be built, just an image.
32:39But this is quite new in the history of humankind, let's say like that. And it could be very strong.
32:47And then it's also interesting, because the approach is different. It's not a domination.
32:55The problem of the United States now is that they absolutely want to be the world leader,
33:04to dominate, to be the hegemon of the world, the only power, yes, the superpower,
33:12and the other ones, they should follow. But now it will not be possible to do that.
33:20It's just a double axis, and also a four, let's say, a multipolar four, with four poles,
33:30let's say like that. And with maybe India, our big country, Africa, South America, but in the
33:38second row. And that's new. And I think the Europeans, they are so self-centered.
33:46If I speak with our leaders and our media, they didn't take consciousness
33:58of the existence of this new axis, of this shift. They believe they are still the center of the
34:04world. But now Europe, for me, is a small part, maybe important, maybe rich, and so on. But it's
34:12only a small part of the world, it's not more the center. They have to accept this idea. And that's
34:21the problem. And that's why they are incompetent to answer your question. They are geopolitically
34:28incompetent, because they should accept this new reality, to rebuild something and to rebuild
34:37their capacity to wait on international affairs, and including with Ukraine.
34:46So you have actually suggested a multipolar world. And interestingly, the US, which has been
34:53very long reluctant to accept the multipolarity, but Marco Rubio remarked that the world has
35:01already moved into multipolarity. So now you're saying the European leaders,
35:07by and large, have failed to realize that the world has already moved on. They are stuck in the
35:12past. So given that's the case, I wonder what is going to be Europe's reaction
35:26toward Russia and China? And now the US is retreating back to the American continent.
35:34How will Europe react to the new security arrangement? Because Europe are made of
35:43individual countries like the Baltic states, and countries like Poland, who might have legitimate
35:50security concerns for Russia. Do you think Russia, because, okay, the narrative is,
35:58the European or Western narrative is, after Russia has conquered parts of Ukraine,
36:04they will move on to conquer many parts in Eastern Europe and the Baltic countries.
36:11Do you think that could be a reality? Or should Europe be fearful of Russia?
36:18In my view, no. Because they built a narrative since 10 years now, describing and presenting
36:27Russia as a global threat, as a vital threat, existential threat against them. But in fact,
36:36that's not true. In fact, there were no problems with Ukraine until the Maidan revolution in 2014.
36:47And Russia did not invade any European country. There were some tensions locally, let's say,
36:55because of some Russian national minorities in Transnistria, but it was, let's say,
37:02localized. It was not global. And it was frozen in this country. The problem came
37:10with NATO, when NATO decided to expand and to expand in Eastern Europe, despite
37:20the promises given to President Gorbachev in 1991. That was the main problem. But the Europeans
37:31didn't speak about that. They didn't represent NATO as a peaceful military organization. It's
37:40an oxymoron. If you are military, you know, it was a military alliance, which became offensive,
37:48not defensive. Remember, NATO attacked Serbia in 1999 and bombed the Chinese embassy there
37:56in Belgrade. It was also the case in Libya. So, in Iraq, Afghanistan, there were NATO battalions
38:05there. So, that was, in fact, the problem. But they presented that as, you know, a response
38:13to a non-existing Russian, a supposed Russian threat, which was not the case. Now, you know,
38:21that's another difficulty for the Europeans, because in my view, they are self-intoxicated
38:29by their own propaganda. You know, the narrative is, oh, that's the bad Russian beer, you know,
38:36he will attack us. But in case it was a fake, and now they have to de-intoxicate themselves,
38:48which is always difficult, in my view. There is the problem in Ukraine, that's clear.
38:56You have just mentioned an interesting case, the NATO, because the NATO was created in response
39:03to the Soviet Union. But the Warsaw Pact was dissolved, where NATO still expands eastward.
39:13So, why is that the case? So, who created, you're suggesting that NATO is the one who created
39:21Russophobia, propaganda that Russia is the big threat. But what was the strategic
39:29aim of that? Why Europe shouldn't follow this American strategic aim?
39:36Yeah, after the collapse of the USSR in 1991, normally, yes, the Warsaw Pact was dismantled,
39:45and normally, NATO should also disappear. It was discussed at the time. But what happened?
39:53They maintained NATO, and after that, let's say, the new conservative elites in Washington,
40:01they took the grip, and they decided, oh, we won the Cold War, United States won the Cold War,
40:09and now we should be able to be the only hegemonic power in the world. China was rising,
40:18but not at the first place at the time. And so, USSR disappeared, they were alone. And this is the
40:28main reason why they kept NATO in standby in the first time, and after that, developing,
40:37and also expanding. If you read the Brzezinski book, the Great Chessboard, written in 1995,
40:49or the Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine in 1992, he was the Assistant Defense Minister of the United States,
40:58Paul Wolfowitz. All these guys developed theories saying, if we wish to be the dominating power
41:09in the world, we cannot have rivals, we should destroy any rival. So, we had to be sure that
41:23USSR or Russia will never come back at the first place. And that's why it's written in the book,
41:32you know, we should dismantle Ukraine, we should take the grip on Ukraine, because
41:40Ukraine is the pivot country for Russian power. So, if we can split Ukraine and Russia,
41:53Russia will never come back in the first place in the world. That was written, and that's why
41:59they keep NATO, that's why they expand NATO, that's why after they proposed, as I said,
42:08Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO. That was planned, let's say like that. If you look back,
42:14if you take the movie from the beginning, and now it's the end of this, Russia with this intervention
42:22in Ukraine, it stops this, let's say, Western NATO expansions. And now a new deal is coming
42:35on the scene. And as I said, with a new axis of the world, but it will take time for everybody
42:45to understand the new conditions. Yes, because looking back at it, it feels a little bit tragic,
42:52because that's tragic, because when you talk about playing the chess game, who is the player?
43:00The only player is the US, where Europe is the chessboard. Europe is a piece of chessboard,
43:08it's just a piece of geographical feature in which the chess player plays.
43:14They are accustomed to play chess with the black and the white pawns, and Europe was just pawns on
43:23the chessboard. So now the world is moving to a more balanced game between multiple poles.
43:33Exactly, but it's very hard to the previous, let's say, leaders to accept.
43:40Yes, my very wild question. Do you think Europe will stay intact? I mean, it will keep itself
43:47together or will break into conflicts, especially if America withdraws its security guarantee,
43:56security support of the Europeans, the European nations will have to come out with their own
44:03defense. If that's the case, do you think the security competition will come back to
44:10the continent of Europe, which has hunted Europe for millennia, because European history is filled
44:17with wars? Do you think that might come back again? I don't think so, to be frank.
44:24There are many divisions, many disagreements between Europeans, as we can see, for instance,
44:32between now the Hungarians and Slovaks and the other ones. That's the case and it will continue.
44:40But let's say maybe in history, a little bit more deep in the history, I wrote a book also
44:48called The Lost Continent. The Lost Continent is Europe in my eyes. And I was explaining
44:56why Europe is fragile. Because it's fragile because after the First and Second World Wars,
45:05it was a civil war, let's say, a civil European war. Half the Europe against half the other one
45:12in 1914 and also in 1949. And the Europeans were very conscious of the problem and they
45:25said, never again, we should avoid that. It was a good decision. And we will do it, creating
45:34the European Union and the economic union and so on. It was pretty successful in terms of economy,
45:42but not so successful in terms of politics, because they emphasized the economic side and
45:50not so much the political. And the dependence with the United States in terms of security
45:56was also big with NATO. So, the construction is okay, but also very fragile and incomplete.
46:06Because the political and the security pillar are lacking. Now, with the new context,
46:15there is. And if Europeans will not be able to add these two pillars, politics and military,
46:26Europeans will split. Maybe not in wars, I don't think so, because now it's pretty much
46:33integrated. But it will be a slow decline, let's say. But there is an opportunity to rebuild
46:54this independence with the political and security pillar. They started yesterday,
47:01they decided to invest in defense, which is good. But it depends, everything is depending on how
47:09they will do it. Because if they spend 800 billions of dollars to buy American weapons,
47:18where is the independence? If it is with local European industries, that's okay.
47:29With interoperability and so on. Everything is depending on how the goal is made.
47:39And that's not yet clear. So much is uncertain, depending on how the conflict will be resolved.
47:50But it seems to be that your principle is that Europe should stay united and
47:58to be a collective, but also independent, autonomous player in the world.
48:03Exactly. In my view, yes. It means they should also come to an agreement with Russia. Because
48:14Europe cannot develop properly itself when it is in war with Russia through Ukraine. It's not
48:26possible, because it will take too much money, it will be too costly, and so on. So the problem in
48:38Ukraine should be resolved. And normally, Europeans should be able to be part of the
48:46general security architecture, which has never been done since 30 years, since the collapse of
48:58the USSR. But maybe now, with the new conditions, there is an opportunity, and I hope they will
49:06seize it. But with the actual leadership, I am pretty skeptical. But maybe a good surprise could
49:15occur. I hope so. As a European, I hope so. And they could also use China as a counterbalance.
49:26You know, same for China, they could also use Europeans as a partner. And so that's why there
49:34are some opportunities also for both parts of the world, as you are in China now.
49:43So cautious optimism for the future, which is very uncertain. Okay, thank you for that. As much as I
49:49want you to go on elaborating more about China-Europe opportunity, we are running out of
49:56time, and it's already a one-hour segment. So I thank you again for your contribution today.
50:02And I hope we carry on our conversation in the future, to talk about mainly, I think, about
50:09European and especially Switzerland cooperation with China. No, with pleasure. So I am grateful
50:16to you. It's always a pleasure to speak with China's friends. We welcome you to our institute
50:24at Fudan University.
50:29And this was another episode of China Now, a show that opens a window to the
50:33present and future of the Asian giant. Hope you enjoy it and see you next time.