伊集院光の偏愛博物館 2025年3月22日 「東洋民俗博物館」を訪問！奥深き民俗学の世界に伊集院が迫る
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TVTranscript
00:01This is the story of a man who loves something too much and has built a museum.
00:07There are people in the world who love something too much,
00:13and have built a museum.
00:22This is a museum.
00:25It's a museum.
00:27I'm sorry, I'm getting more and more confused about the genre.
00:35Let's explore the world of love together.
00:43Hikaru Ijuin's Love Museum
00:57Yes.
01:01I can speak a little bit about anything,
01:06but I can't speak about Ayame Ike.
01:09I'm familiar with Ayame Ike.
01:12Yes.
01:19East Asian people.
01:22There are more of them than there are in Japan.
01:26It's because they are from the East.
01:29If we talk about ethnography,
01:31it's something that doesn't fit the genre.
01:34What do they collect?
01:37Hikaru Ijuin's Love Museum
01:42A hundred years?
01:44So it's been around for a hundred years?
01:48In the ancient city of Nara,
01:50there has been a love museum for about a hundred years.
01:56What kind of place is it?
01:59This?
02:01What is it?
02:02It's a strange-looking building.
02:06Hikaru Ijuin's Love Museum
02:17What is it?
02:19It's a strange-looking building.
02:22It looks like something I've never seen before.
02:25There's something written on it.
02:27A human being is trying to know the infinite universe.
02:3199.
02:33If I were a neighbor,
02:35I wouldn't go near it.
02:41It's a mystery.
02:43It looks like a base for a bad guy like Kamen Rider.
02:50It's the closest I've been to a human being.
02:55Excuse me.
02:57Welcome.
02:59Nice to meet you. I'm Ijuin.
03:01I'm Yumiko Tsukumo. Nice to meet you.
03:04Ms. Tsukumo?
03:05It says 99.
03:07Are you Ms. Tsukumo?
03:08Yes, I am.
03:09Nice to meet you.
03:12Now,
03:13the Toyo Folk Museum.
03:16Let's go inside.
03:24Opened in 1928,
03:27there are about 10,000 documents
03:31from the Meiji Period to the Showa Period
03:35in Asia, including countries and goods.
03:39I thought I'd find something if I went in,
03:42so I went in.
03:44I don't know much about it,
03:46so I'll explain it carefully.
03:48Please come in.
03:53Let's get started.
03:55This is stone money.
03:57It's money from the Paro Islands.
04:00The Paro and Borneo Islands
04:02have a population of less than 1,000.
04:04This is one stone.
04:05How many pigs are there?
04:07Pigs seem to be worth a lot.
04:10One for one.
04:11One for one pig.
04:13This is one.
04:14It's worth more.
04:15They say they were able to buy 20 pigs.
04:19You put them in a stick.
04:20Yes.
04:21You put them in a stick and carry them.
04:24There's something interesting here.
04:26I just passed by,
04:28but I didn't know there was a photographer.
04:30He's the curator of this museum.
04:32He's my father.
04:34His name is Tsukumo Ojin,
04:36written in yellow.
04:38He's 103 years old.
04:40He's been to Japan and around the world
04:42to collect these things.
04:44So he brought the old stone money
04:47from the Paro Islands,
04:49and other things from all over the world.
04:51That's right.
04:53Tsukumo Ojin was born in 1894.
04:56He's the father of the current curator.
04:59He's been passionate about one thing
05:01since he was a child.
05:06While he was in college,
05:08the famous American humanist
05:10Dr. Frederick Stahl came to Japan.
05:13Ojin was a passionate fan.
05:16He wanted to become a disciple.
05:19As an interpreter and assistant,
05:21Dr. Stahl and Ojin
05:23traveled all over the world
05:25to collect various national treasures.
05:31When he was 33 years old,
05:33he opened the Toyo National Museum
05:35to let people see the collected treasures.
05:40I was interested in this,
05:42so I collected whatever I could.
05:44That's how it started.
05:46This is a boat made by the people
05:48around the stone money.
05:50It's an interesting one.
05:52It's a boat.
05:54Do you know what this is?
05:56It's a sailboat.
05:58What is it?
06:00It's a sailboat.
06:02Is it an etched one?
06:04Yes, it's an etched one.
06:06Paro is a quiet place,
06:08so it was etched on the sea.
06:10My father thought it was interesting
06:12because he knew Paro's life.
06:14It's a modern sailboat.
06:16I'm sorry,
06:18but I can't understand the genre
06:20because you explained it twice.
06:22It's a sailboat that somehow
06:24got caught in my father's antenna.
06:26It got caught a little.
06:28I can see the life of the people,
06:30so this is one of them.
06:32Yes, I can see the life of the people.
06:34Let's change the subject.
06:36This is a hidden stone.
06:38This is the real Fumie.
06:40I see.
06:42There are many kinds of Fumie,
06:44such as ceramic, copper, and so on.
06:46I've been to many churches
06:48in Shimabara,
06:50and this is the real Fumie.
06:52In the past,
06:54we learned Fumie from a textbook,
06:56but I heard that
06:58this thing itself is Fumie,
07:00and what you can do with it is Fumie.
07:02That's what I heard.
07:04I see.
07:06I can't understand the genre anymore.
07:08There are interesting things
07:10about Fumie.
07:12Let's move on.
07:14This is Tibet.
07:16From the Chinese point of view,
07:18this is an important place
07:20in Okra City in the west.
07:22Do you know Lama Kyo in Tibet?
07:24There are three important things
07:26in the life of Lama Kyo.
07:28When he was born and when he died,
07:30it was important to leave his body.
07:32If you want to leave your body,
07:34you have to hug him.
07:36Lama Kyo has many statues
07:38of Lama Kyo.
07:40This is the interesting part
07:42of Lama Kyo.
07:44Your father has
07:46an antenna of eroticism.
07:48Yes, a little.
07:50I don't know why,
07:52but I feel sympathy for him
07:54because I've never met him.
07:56This is Maria Kanno.
07:58The genre is Fumon.
08:00This is an exhibition
08:02of everything.
08:04This is Emma.
08:06She was a horse
08:08and wanted to fulfill
08:10her wish.
08:12She drew a picture of a horse
08:14instead of a horse
08:16from the end of the Heian period.
08:18There are many pictures
08:20from Meiji to the present.
08:22It's a little interesting,
08:24so I'll read it from the top.
08:26This is a ship.
08:28She drew a picture of an old man
08:30and an old woman
08:32and a pine tree in the middle.
08:34It's a symbol of health.
08:36There are four lower body
08:38of a man in the middle.
08:40What does this symbolize?
08:42What does it symbolize?
08:44Is it a joke?
08:46It's the Taisho era.
08:48It's a symbol of
08:50the disease of the time.
08:52It's a symbol of
08:54the disease of the time.
08:56It's a symbol of
08:58the disease of the time.
09:00There is an octopus
09:02in the middle of the picture.
09:04Is it the octopus?
09:06It's above the leg.
09:08The octopus sucks the poison
09:10from the body.
09:12Oh, it's a poison sucking device.
09:14I see.
09:16The man in the grave
09:18is praying for a war.
09:20He's praying for a war
09:22so that his speech will get better.
09:24The character of the word
09:26is the eye of a flounder.
09:28The character of the word
09:30is the eye of a flounder.
09:32The flounder means
09:34to restrict the character of the word.
09:36A woman who restricts the word
09:38other than her wife.
09:40Oh, that's interesting!
09:42To prevent cheating.
09:44Was he very unrestrictive?
09:46You could say so,
09:48but I think
09:50he was forced to do that.
09:52I see.
09:54He did something funny.
09:56I see.
09:58Rikon-kigan. This is the Taisho era.
10:00In the Taisho era, it was difficult for women to get divorced.
10:04Now, in Ema, it seems like there are a lot of enmusubi.
10:07But there doesn't seem to be a lot of rikon-kigan, right?
10:10Next to it is Mukade-ema.
10:12Oh, they're trying to eat the Mukade because it's sacred.
10:16When you write Mukade in kanji,
10:19it means a hundred feet.
10:21There are a lot of feet.
10:22There are a lot of feet.
10:23It means that you want money.
10:28It's hard to say that you want money from God.
10:31It's good luck.
10:32You want money there.
10:34There's something more fashionable.
10:38It says, I want you to make 100,000 yen with daikon.
10:42Oh, I see.
10:43It's hard to make 100,000 yen with daikon.
10:46This is not daikon.
10:47Instead of daikon, you make it luck.
10:50Instead of daikon, you make it good luck.
10:53Oh, I see.
10:54It means a lot of men.
10:56It's a declaration to stop making money.
10:59In the old days, ema was just a personal information.
11:03When I went to a shrine, I liked to see ema.
11:06Do you know that now?
11:08You can't see ema with a sticker on the front.
11:11Now, you can't see ema with a sticker on the front.
11:14Compared to paintings that painters draw only for art,
11:18it's still a people.
11:19It's a work of art for ordinary people.
11:23It may sound unfair,
11:24but it's not that it's very good.
11:26It's not fake.
11:28That's what I like about it.
11:30I want a T-shirt with this.
11:36This is not the end of the mysterious world.
11:44What do you use this for in Indonesia?
11:46Instruments?
11:47Yes, instruments.
11:48Instruments.
11:49This is an ankh.
11:54You have to check this.
11:57What is it?
11:58You put nuts in it and break it.
12:01Oh, it's a walnut breaker.
12:04Yes, it's a walnut breaker.
12:05It's said that you have to use a hard one.
12:07Wow, it's fragile.
12:08Yes, it is.
12:10You put nuts in here and break it.
12:12I see.
12:14This is from the war.
12:17This is a Japanese Navy cannon.
12:21What did they use this for?
12:29Wake up!
12:31The Australian army used this instead of a rapid-fire gun.
12:33The cannon was this big.
12:35This is a bit of a historical mystery.
12:38It's a bit of a mystery.
12:39I don't know.
12:40They might have died because of this, but they still used it for disposing of goods.
12:46Yes, they used it for disposing of goods.
12:49This is also from the war.
12:51This is from the atomic bombing in Hiroshima.
12:53Oh, really?
12:54There weren't many casualties.
12:56After the Second World War, my father decided that he had to dispose of the goods immediately, so he took a break.
13:01It's persuasive that it turned into this temperature in an instant.
13:06The plane that dropped these was the B-29.
13:12Oh, really?
13:13I put it in a pharmacy or a pharmacy when I was in elementary school.
13:17At that time, I didn't know what a B-29 was.
13:20So I put it in a pharmacy or a school to teach them that they should run away when they see this.
13:26I see.
13:27The kids said,
13:28It's an airplane.
13:29You can't chase any airplane.
13:31It's different from the Japanese one.
13:33It's a device that can tell you that an airplane is about to explode.
13:37There are so many things.
13:40From erotic to war.
13:42There are many things.
13:43Yes.
13:46This is one of the most valuable exhibits in history.
13:54This is a blue-eyed doll.
13:57Yes, it's a blue-eyed doll.
13:59It was distributed to elementary schools all over the country for New Year's Day.
14:03Is that a real one?
14:04Yes, it is.
14:05The exchange between dolls lasted from the 1920s to the 1930s.
14:10It was a good time in the West and the West.
14:12In the 1940s,
14:14The war is coming closer and closer.
14:16The military dismissed the dolls from elementary schools all over the country.
14:21At that time, the dolls were gone.
14:23There are only about 300 left.
14:25Each doll has a name on it.
14:27It says, F1B-chan.
14:29It even has a passport on it.
14:31Wow.
14:33At first, the dolls were sent to be taken care of.
14:40But they were destroyed by the enemy.
14:43The dolls were abandoned.
14:46But there are still many of them.
14:55This is a Chinese doll.
14:56This is a prototype of a Chinese Hakata doll.
15:02It's reflected in the mirror.
15:03Oh, I can see the back of the doll.
15:05The butt.
15:06And the part that shouldn't be reflected.
15:08It's not wearing pants.
15:09Oh, it's true.
15:10It's very good.
15:11I'm interested in these things.
15:13I think the price of a blue-eyed doll is very high.
15:17I think so, too.
15:18Probably.
15:19Because it's such a precious thing.
15:21However, if you ask me if all the dolls are expensive,
15:23I don't collect them by that standard.
15:25I collect them because I want to show them to my children.
15:29That's interesting.
15:30Do you go to the site and get them?
15:33I go to the site and collect them.
15:35And I collect them in various ways.
15:38It's a long story, so I'm not sure.
15:42This is the most exciting thing.
15:44This is the most popular exhibit in our museum.
15:49This is the most popular exhibit in our museum.
15:57Here it is.
15:59The name of the exhibit is...
16:01It says, MINA's poop.
16:03Whose poop is it?
16:05When I went to the LIMA museum in Peru,
16:08there were about 200 MINA dolls in the basement.
16:12The staff said,
16:14I'll give you one if you want it.
16:16I couldn't take it home because it was too big.
16:18So I cut it with a knife and brought it home.
16:21You didn't use your face or fingers.
16:23Yes.
16:24You didn't use your face or fingers.
16:25You have so many different genres,
16:29and you became a director.
16:31Did you study a lot?
16:33No, I didn't until I retired at the age of 62.
16:37I became a director at the age of 62 and followed my father's footsteps,
16:41but I didn't know anything.
16:43There was a background on each of the dolls,
16:47so I learned that this is how it works.
16:51Another thing is that this museum is old,
16:54so many experts came to me.
16:57I see.
16:58They taught me.
16:59I learned it naturally,
17:01so I was able to do it.
17:07My father passed away when he was 130 years old.
17:10So I went to Tokyo University,
17:12where I collected things that I thought were interesting.
17:16Dr. Frederick Starr came from the United States.
17:20As the name suggests, Dr. Starr was a star.
17:23He came to me because he wanted to teach Japanese culture.
17:26I became a fan and a disciple at the same time.
17:33From my point of view, he was a very cool father.
17:37He was a cool father, but I couldn't imitate him.
17:41I was envious of him.
17:43That's what I think.
17:48I was born in a house next to the museum.
17:51I was here until I graduated from college.
17:54I joined the NHK.
17:56I lived outside the prefecture for 40 years.
18:00When I came back, this museum was left.
18:05When I look at this museum,
18:07some people say,
18:09it's a piece of junk.
18:11But with time,
18:13the sense of value has changed.
18:16I want to make a museum that will please everyone.
18:23Isn't it good?
18:24Yes.
18:25It's like your father's spirit is properly spread out in the world.
18:29That's right.
18:31My mother said,
18:33don't be that kind of person.
18:36Yes, I was.
18:37In a sense, it means that I was born here,
18:39so I'm that kind of person.
18:41That's what she said.
18:43In folk music,
18:45the ultimate folk music is sexism.
18:48It is said that it is most important to study sexism,
18:51which is a human nature.
18:54Serious people in the world
18:56tend to say that there was no such thing as eroticism.
19:00Don't say that.
19:01That's a lie.
19:02That's right.
19:03In any country in the world,
19:05there was eroticism.
19:07It is connected to various folk music.
19:10The collection is in the other room.
19:13Is it there?
19:14Yes.
19:15Today is special.
19:17Let's go to the collection of the Seisuhai.
19:24The collection of the Seisuhai.
19:26Shinra Banshokutsu.
19:30This is it.
19:31Yes, yes, yes.
19:33Here it is.
19:34It's a picture of a man.
19:35It's a picture of a man.
19:36It's a picture of a man.
19:37It's a picture of a man.
19:38If you put the face of a man on the keyhole ...
19:41Oh, if you put it on, it's over.
19:43If you put it on, you can see the eroticism at once.
19:46This is a set.
19:47It's interesting.
19:48Wow.
19:49It's a ash tray.
19:50Wow.
19:51This was my father's residence,
19:53so he collected various things.
19:55There are various goods in the room.
19:58Please come in.
20:01What is the number of non-manufactured goods that the first director fell in love with?
20:08This is a collection of goods.
20:11When I went to Nishio, Michibata,
20:13I had a habit of collecting them.
20:16I thought it was similar to Michibata.
20:19It's amazing.
20:21It's the best.
20:22It's interesting around here.
20:23If you put sake in it, it's a good meal.
20:26It makes you smile.
20:28In the 1950s and 1960s,
20:32there was a ballpoint pen that turned into a noodle when you moved it.
20:36There was also a ballpoint pen that turned into a noodle when you warmed it.
20:38It was popular in the old days.
20:39This is amazing.
20:41This is a book that my father collected.
20:43It's like a book that's about to go on sale.
20:45He collected that kind of thing.
20:47It's a financial report on the daily life of Americans.
20:52It's a book that I got from the U.S. in the early 1950s.
20:54This is a Kama Sutra.
20:56This is from India.
20:57It's a holy book.
20:59It's a book about the Thai people because it's a country of rock.
21:03It's a serious era, so if you have this kind of thing,
21:06you can't help but be interested.
21:09There's something like this in the book my father collected.
21:12Do you know Abe Sada?
21:13I was born and raised in the city of Abe Sada.
21:16This is the record of Abe Sada's trial.
21:18When I was introduced to the judge by a friend in 1964,
21:23I went to the judge and showed him all the testimonies from the first to the seventh trial.
21:30It's essential to study Abe Sada.
21:33There's someone I know who's studying Abe Sada.
21:36I think you'll be happy just to hear that there's something like this.
21:39This is a study on Abe Sada.
21:41A lot of books are coming out on the electronic version.
21:47There's a lot of regulations there, so it's not an electronic book.
21:51If you think about it that way, you might get caught even if you write it seriously.
21:55You have to leave it on paper.
22:01It's a magazine called Amatoria.
22:03What is Amatoria?
22:05It's a book about the culture of the West.
22:07It's a magazine that was published in 1951.
22:12All the books are the same.
22:14It's about the same as the National Library.
22:16Oh, I see.
22:17My father was in charge of it.
22:19If you look at it a little bit, it's an academic book.
22:24The first chapter is about male superiority.
22:27It's about male and female.
22:29It's about the speed of Alibretto and Dante.
22:32When it comes to the fifth chapter, it's about female superiority.
22:35It's about male.
22:37It's about male.
22:39You need a little bit of intelligence to enjoy erotic books.
22:45If you're tired.
22:48I think you can see what I'm talking about.
22:51It's a funny book.
22:53What's interesting about it is that it's a book about the boundary between eroticism and art.
23:04It's a valuable book.
23:07Some people read it seriously.
23:09Some people think it's erotic just by looking at the illustrations.
23:18It was a big hit in the 1950s.
23:22It was the first book in an erotic magazine.
23:28It's like the new president of a folk museum.
23:32It's a compliment.
23:34It's a mix of eroticism and eroticism.
23:39It's a mix of a lot of things.
23:41It's like a monster of a father who's never seen this building.
23:48I think it's a little bit like that.
23:50Folk music is originally a collection of junk.
23:56I think it's a good idea to study it.
23:59I think it's a good idea to study it.
24:01I want people to see this museum in various ways.
24:04Compliance is important, but I think it's different to make it a thing that doesn't exist.
24:09I think the business that doesn't exist is what I'm doing.
24:13I think it's like a comedy or a radio DJ.
24:16It's a very intense world.
24:19I'm grateful that these pioneers have gathered to the point where they are learning.
24:26I think there are a lot of things like the first director's breath in the world.
24:32What is eroticism?
24:34I think eroticism is something that never comes out of something like a light.
24:41I think there are a lot of things like people.
24:43The era is sealed in the most human source of eroticism.
24:49I think it's good.
24:50A hundred years ago, people said it was a change in one word.
24:54It's an era in which productivity is required more than ever.
24:58I think the wind around me was strong.
25:02I think I laughed it all off.
25:05I felt like his soul remained more correctly than any grave.
25:24I think it's good.