Trump coziness with Putin seen in U.S. backing off countering Russian sabotage in Europe: Report

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Rachel Maddow looks at recent acts of sabotage by Russia in countries that support Ukraine, including what is believed to be the planning stages of detonating a bomb in a cargo plane over the United States. Erin Banco, national security correspondent for Reuters, joins to discuss her new reporting that the U.S. is now taking steps to back away from its role in helping to counter Russian acts of sabotage.  For more context and news coverage of the most important stories of our day click here: https://www.msnbc.com/  » Subscribe to MSNBC: https://www.youtube.com/msnbc » Subscribe to MSNBC on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@msnbc  » Subscribe to MSNBC on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/msnbc  Download our new MSNBC app for the latest breaking news and daily headlines at a glance: https://www.msnbc.com/information/download-msnbc-app-n1241692  Follow MSNBC Show Blogs  MaddowBlog: https://www.msnbc.com/maddowblog  MSNBC delivers breaking news, in-depth analysis of political headlines, commentary and informed perspectives. Find video clips and segments from The Rachel Maddow Show, Inside with Jen Psaki, Morning Joe, The Beat, Deadline: White House, All In, The Last Word, The 11th Hour, and more.  Connect with MSNBC Online  Visit msnbc.com: https://www.msnbc.com/  Subscribe to the MSNBC Daily Newsletter: https://link.msnbc.com/join/5ck/msnbc-daily-signup  #Trump #Putin #Ukraine

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00:00WESTERN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES BELIEVE RUSSIA IS BEHIND TWO RECENT ATTEMPTS TO SMUGGLE EXPLOSIVES

00:07ONTO CARGO PLANES AND MAY BE TARGETING PLANES BOUND FOR THE U.S.

00:11TOM COSTELLO IS WITH US.

00:13TOM, THIS IS QUITE CONCERNING.

00:14WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED?

00:15IT REALLY IS.

00:16THE EXPLOSIVES WENT OFF IN DHL CARGO HUBS IN GERMANY AND BRITAIN.

00:21HAD A BOMB EXPLODED WHILE THE PLANE WAS IN THE AIR, THE HEAD OF GERMAN DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE

00:25SAYS THE PLANE WOULD LIKELY HAVE CRASHED.

00:27A WESTERN SECURITY OFFICIAL TELLS NBC NEWS IT COULD BE A RUSSIAN OPERATION TO UNDERMINE

00:33SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE AND CARGO FLIGHTS TO THE U.S. AND CANADA COULD BE TARGETED.

00:40Last summer, explosions at DHL cargo hubs.

00:44They were not accidents, they were not isolated incidents, they were part of what European

00:48and American officials described as an expanding campaign of Russian sabotage, including arson

00:55in the UK and the Czech Republic, attacks on pipelines and data cables in the Baltic,

01:00and tampering with water supplies in Sweden and Finland.

01:04Earlier last year, the U.S. also helped Germany interrupt an alleged Russian plot to assassinate

01:12an executive at a German arms manufacturer, a German arms manufacturer that supplies arms

01:17to the Ukrainian military.

01:20Those cargo bombs on those DHL planes, even with all that other stuff, when the DHL planes

01:26started having bombs on board, U.S. intelligence officials said they were a Russian test run

01:31to figure out how those devices could get aboard planes bound for the U.S.

01:37And as such, that was a frightening new escalation for American officials, the idea that that

01:43sabotage campaign could be coming here.

01:47Months later, the New York Times reported that White House officials became, quote,

01:50increasingly alarmed by secretly obtained intelligence suggesting Moscow had a far larger

01:56plan in mind to bring the war in Ukraine to American shores.

02:02President Biden dispatched his national security adviser and the CIA director to send a series

02:06of warnings to Putin's top aides.

02:08The core of the warning was that if the sabotage campaign led by Russia created mass casualties

02:14in the air or on the ground, the U.S. would hold Russia responsible.

02:19They didn't specify what that response would be, but they made it clear they would take

02:22the shadow war between Washington and Moscow to new levels.

02:27So that was last year.

02:31A new in-depth study of Russia's sabotage campaign finds that the number of Russian

02:36sabotage attacks in Europe nearly tripled between 2023 and last year, after quadrupling

02:43the year before that.

02:45Reporting on that, here's how the New York Times put it, quote, anger at Russia's sabotage

02:48efforts has the potential to influence European reactions to the U.S.-led push for an end

02:53to the war in Ukraine.

02:55Prime Minister Donald Tusk of Poland noted in a social media post on Monday that Lithuanian

03:00officials had confirmed his assessment that Russia was responsible for a series of fires

03:05in shopping centers in Warsaw and Vilnius.

03:08Mr. Tusk wrote, quote, good to know before negotiations, such is the nature of this state.

03:15The message to countries supporting Ukraine has been that Russia can impose costs and

03:19increase them.

03:23So we had this very big scare last year, with not just this sabotage campaign rapidly escalating

03:30in Europe, but it appearing to start to target the United States.

03:35Today we get data that Russian sabotage attacks in Europe quadrupled one year and then tripled

03:40the year after that.

03:42Well, now today we get this from Reuters, U.S. suspends some efforts to counter Russian

03:48sabotage as Trump moves closer to Putin, quote, several U.S. national security agencies have

03:54halted work on a coordinated effort to counter Russian sabotage, disinformation, and cyber

03:59attacks, easing pressure on Moscow as the Trump administration pushes Russia to end

04:04its war in Ukraine.

04:05The effort involved at least seven national security agencies working with European allies

04:10to disrupt plots targeting Europe and the United States.

04:14Since Trump took office, much of the work has come to a standstill.

04:18Reuters cites 11 current and former officials here.

04:21I'll tell you what Reuters—that Reuters did ask the Kremlin what they think about

04:25this reporting.

04:26Quote, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the Trump administration was trying to get

04:30rid of everything ineffective, corrupt, and implausible.

04:36Something he said was, quote, understandable.

04:40Joining us now is one of the reporters on that story, Reuters national security correspondent

04:43Erin Banco.

04:44Ms. Banco, thanks very much for being here and for getting this scoop.

04:47I appreciate the chance to talk with you about it.

04:48Yeah, thanks for having me.

04:51Is the United States pulling back from anti-Russian sabotage efforts because they don't believe

04:59they're happening or because they believe that the efforts are ineffective?

05:03What's the rationale on the U.S. side for cutting back on these efforts?

05:09I would say it's very clear from officials we've spoken to, both in this administration

05:14and in the prior administration, that our intelligence—U.S. intelligence, European

05:19intelligence—still shows that Russia poses a threat, both to the U.S. and to Europe,

05:27in regard to its hybrid warfare campaign or its sabotage campaign.

05:31That threat has not gone away.

05:32We've spoken to several very senior intelligence officials about this fact.

05:36This intelligence has been circulated as recently as last week here in the U.S. and in Europe.

05:44But it's very clear from the conversations we've had over the last month or two that

05:49this administration does not view the countering of Russia's hybrid warfare campaign as a

05:56priority.

05:57This was a very high priority for the prior administration, a program they stood up in

06:042024 to, across the interagency, track, combat this campaign, both in Europe and potentially

06:12in the U.S., and a huge part of that was coordinating with Europe.

06:16So that included everything from sharing intelligence to drawing up strategies for trying to counter

06:25Russia's campaign.

06:27So it was a massive priority for the Biden administration and something Biden officials

06:32briefed Trump officials on right before they left, urging them to continue this program.

06:40The sabotage that Russia has been accused of, their efforts, mostly have been documented

06:45in Europe.

06:46There is this very worrying case on the record in terms of them targeting parcel bombs that

06:51were on planes, potentially to be bound for the United States.

06:55What do you understand about the balance of, I guess, the balance of how much heavy lifting

07:02was being done in this effort by European nations versus by the U.S.?

07:06Presumably the Europeans are going to still be trying to counter this stuff because they've

07:10been bearing more of the brunt of it.

07:12With the U.S. withdrawing, how much harder is their work going to be?

07:16Yeah, that's a really good question.

07:19So law enforcement in many of these countries are leading the way in terms of investigations

07:24looking at some of these sabotage acts.

07:29But I should know it's not just sabotage acts, it's not just arson attacks we're talking

07:33about here.

07:34We're talking about everything from arson to influence campaigns and political elections

07:39to cyber intrusions.

07:42And a huge part of what the U.S. did under Biden was shared critical intelligence on

07:48not only the unfolding sabotage plots, but on what was going on in the cyberspace as

07:54well.

07:55And so what happens when the U.S. pulls back or deprioritizes something like this is that

08:01the coordination in terms of intelligence sharing then gets lost.

08:05I should note that there's no evidence that sort of the systematic intelligence that gets

08:11shared from the U.S. and Europe has ceased.

08:14But there was this coordinated effort by the White House in particular, the National

08:18Security Council, the FBI, DHS, where a lot of those conversations were happening that

08:25is no longer.

08:27And so when the U.S. pulls back from something like that, you lose a lot of not only the

08:31coordination but the intelligence as well.

08:35Reuters National Security Correspondent Erin Banco, thank you very much for this time.

08:38I know this is very difficult reporting in this sector of government operations.

08:43It's really valuable.

08:44Thank you for helping us understand it.

08:46Thanks for having me.

08:48The Trump administration just, I mean, on day one with Pam Bondi at the Justice Department,

08:54they announced they're no longer enforcing the rules against foreign agents.

08:57They no longer are going to enforce efforts by Russians to evade sanctions.

09:03They announced to the Defense Department that they're standing down cyber command operations

09:07against Russia.

09:08And now we have this reporting from Reuters that they're no longer going to try to counter

09:11Russian sabotage efforts that have included assassination attempts and arson and package

09:16bombs targeting the United States originating in Europe.

09:20It's all pointing in one direction, right?

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