As the DMK cornered the Centre over National Education Policy and the three-language formula in the Parliament, experts debate whether Stalin's party is raking up old issues for political opportunism ahead of the 2026 Assembly polls or is the DMK's fear justified? Find out
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome, you're with the news today, your prime time destination,
00:06news, news makers, talking points.
00:08Our big talking point is coming from that big language war that's now echoing in and
00:15outside parliament.
00:16Tonight, we'll be joined by the DMK's articulate TN minister, Palanivel Thyagarajan will be
00:23my special guest, as will the BJP's Kamil Sai Soundarajan.
00:29It looks promising as a special face-off, also, why are global stock markets on the
00:35edge?
00:36One of India's top analysts, Rhythm Desai of Morgan Stanley, will be my special guest
00:41tonight.
00:42But as always, it's time first for the nine headlines at last.
00:47The Baloch Liberation Army hijacks a train in Pakistan, takes over a hundred hostages,
00:54warns of more casualties if the Pakistan Army's aerial bombardment is not halted.
01:04Tamil Nadu MPs protest outside parliament against education minister, Dharmendra Pradhan,
01:12over the language row.
01:14Pradhan hits back, says India is a multilingual society, no language is being imposed.
01:23DBI probes Rania Rao's wedding footage, guest list gift for smuggling links, larger global
01:29nexus under investigation as Dubai and Malaysia numbers found on Starlet.
01:39The Trinamool Congress and the BJP now face off in the election commission as their respective
01:45delegations meet the election commission, raising duplication of voter ID numbers.
01:52DC invites all political parties now to resolve their electoral issues.
02:02Prime Minister Modi conferred with Mauritius his highest civilian award, India and Mauritius
02:07vow to further deepen their ties.
02:11A Delhi court orders a fresh FIR against AAP chief Arvind Kejriwal, former Delhi chief
02:18minister accused of misusing public funds to put up large party hoardings.
02:24A Kerala teen dies after following extreme hot water diet for months, weighed only 24
02:30kgs when she was brought to hospital.
02:36Airtel announces a pact with SpaceX to bring Starlink's internet services to India, agreement
02:41subject to SpaceX receiving its own authorizations to sell Starlink in India.
02:50Elon Musk loses $29 billion in a single day as Tesla stocks crash post attack on showrooms.
02:58Trump calls Tesla boycott illegal, says he's buying one to support Elon Musk.
03:03Markets across America in a meltdown.
03:11But the big breaking story that's coming in this evening, fighters of the Baloch Liberation
03:22Army have taken 182 hostages, an additional eight Pakistani military personnel were have
03:30been killed.
03:31Total number of casualties is now at 20.
03:35The Pakistan army has rushed a relief train with reinforcements of Pakistani soldiers
03:39and doctors from the Quetta railway station to Sibi in Balochistan after the Jaffar Express
03:45there was hijacked.
03:47This is being seen as an attempt being made by the Baluchi fighters, insurgents to take
03:54on the Pakistani army.
03:57The Pakistani army clearly caught off guard there in Balochistan at the moment.
04:03It is a rapidly developing story as the Baluchi insurgents hijacked that train in Balochistan
04:11and are making various demands on the Pakistani army.
04:16The Baloch Liberation Army, the BLA, has claimed responsibility for what has happened.
04:22I'm joined at this moment, Sumaira Khan, a journalist based in Islamabad, has more details.
04:29Sumaira, what can you tell us about this incident?
04:33What more details do you have?
04:35Thank you very much.
04:36And first of all, the terrorist organization that is banned across the globe and banned
04:42and proscribed by the UN authorities, obviously, officials, Baloch Liberation Army, they have
04:49once again launched this heinous attack on civilians.
04:53And the second thing that is very, what I believe as a journalist, that should go to
04:58your viewers as well, that the area we are talking about, it's Dhadar, Bulan.
05:02And Bulan is a very tough terrain in Balochistan.
05:06Balochistan is overall, I'm pretty sure that you might be studying Balochistan before doing
05:11this program as well.
05:12It's the toughest terrains of Pakistan.
05:15It's the toughest terrain even more than Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
05:19I belong to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
05:21I'm a Pakhtunkhwa myself, but I must tell you one thing, that Balochistan across Pakistan,
05:28if I term one place as the toughest terrain, filled with rugged mountains, is called Balochistan.
05:37But Sumaira, has the Pakistani army been caught off guard?
05:41You're saying it's a very tough terrain, but to hijack a train in this manner, has the
05:44Pakistani army been caught off guard?
05:48You know, you can't compare it being off guard or they have just tried to attack the
05:55Pakistani military and they were sleeping.
05:57It's not the case.
05:59If you are in a province that is half of the Pakistan, you can't stretch your 300,000 and
06:04400,000 army personnel, reserve personnel, levies, khasadars, police and other security
06:09officials into such a huge province.
06:12I was studying a few clashes between Indian security forces and Manipur today even, but
06:19I can't term it that the clashes caught the security forces of India off guard.
06:24Because it's not the term that defence analysts and defence reporters, they do this.
06:28No, it's not the case.
06:29Why I'm telling this that the terrain is filled with rugged mountains and all these PLA terrorists,
06:35they go to take refuge in these mountains, they come back, they hit civilians, they hit
06:40security forces and they run back towards the mountains.
06:44What is the latest though?
06:46What is the latest?
06:48What is the latest we know, Sumera?
06:50What do we know at the moment?
06:51Latest is, no, no, you talked about that they have taken hostages, they killed some military
06:58personnel.
06:59So let me clarify one thing that the security personnel were not killed in the clashes.
07:05They are having still, the sanitization operation is still going on in the area.
07:11And I'll give more details on the area if you have more time.
07:15The sanitization operation is still in process in the mountains of Bolan, Dadar, because
07:21they took the whole passenger train off their track and they tried to hostage people.
07:28But let me tell you right now, a full-fledged military operation is in process.
07:33It's underway.
07:34And according to my information, even the airstrikes are being carried out on that typical
07:39patch of the mountains because it's too tough to go in there.
07:43Obviously, if a military personnel is going there, he or she is in uniform.
07:48He's a very visible enemy to you, but people there, they are hiding in the garb of civilians.
07:55So you cannot afford any sort of collateral damage if I'm speaking on behalf of a military
08:00personnel.
08:01Obviously, they would avoid more collateral damages.
08:04So they are going into the mountainous terrain very carefully.
08:08But yes, there is one thing that can be called a security breach.
08:12That local police personnel, local levy's personnel, and whoever was, obviously, that
08:19they were assigned with the basic security spectrum and paradigm, they need to be asked
08:24that why this train, because if they were planning to attack this train, obviously,
08:30there must have been some information with the intelligence.
08:34And if the intelligence arrived at the part of police and levy's, why they did not take
08:40any act in advance?
08:41Let me leave it there, Sumera.
08:45You mentioned that there is a clear security breach.
08:48You mentioned that there is an air operation on at the moment.
08:52On behalf of police and levy's.
08:55Let me leave it there.
08:56I appreciate Sumera Khan, you joining me with those details.
08:59That is important.
09:00It's a developing situation.
09:02And we'll keep track of what's happening in Pakistan.
09:05Remember, the Pakistanis called the BLA terrorists.
09:08The Indian government believes that they are fighters and insurgents who are taking on
09:13the Pakistani government there in Balochistan.
09:16Let me come from what's happening in Balochistan to what's happening home.
09:20Because the language war is growing by the day.
09:24The DMK is hitting out every day at the Narendra Modi government, accusing it of Hindi imposition
09:30in the national education policy.
09:33Education Minister Dharmendra Pradhan replying to the parliament debate dismissed the charge,
09:37saying the whole world is practicing multilingualism.
09:41But DMK MPs are now going across the country, raising the issue of language and delimitation.
09:47It's a full blown war between the Stalin government and the center.
09:51Take a look.
09:53The DMK takes the fight over the national education policy to parliament.
10:00Party MPs came to the house dressed in black on Tuesday as they protested against what
10:05they call Hindi imposition.
10:08DMK reiterated its stand during a discussion on the NEP in Rajya Sabha.
10:17The Tamil Nadu government has been urging the union government not to withhold the release
10:22of funds under the ongoing Samagraha Siksha scheme by linking it to the signing of MOU
10:27for the establishment of the PM's three schools.
10:30Furthermore, characterizing the Samagraha Siksha as merely an extension of the NEP's
10:352020 is misleading and fails to recognize the state comprehensive educational framework
10:41and achievements.
10:42The delayed release of funds for Tamil Nadu education system is not just an administrative
10:48issue, sir.
10:49It is a matter of constitutional and federal importance.
10:52The AIA DMK echoed their rival's views on NEP, but accused the DMK of trying to take
10:58political mileage ahead of the assembly polls next year.
11:04I am for two languages, but I am not doing anything.
11:06But they are highlighting, putting black shirts, they are coming.
11:10What is a black shirt they are doing?
11:12That DMK, this government is making wrong, is persuading the people.
11:17The election is coming in 2026.
11:19For that, they are making all the drama.
11:22Education Minister Dharmendra Pradhan's comment in Lok Sabha on Monday, which he withdrew
11:27later, also figured in the upper house.
11:31So you resign from the minister.
11:35Talk about dividing the country.
11:41Talk about breaking the country.
11:46The BJP has consistently maintained that NEP doesn't impose Hindi.
11:52What is the world saying today?
11:54This time in 2026, the impact of multilingualism on global education is being discussed.
12:00In 2023, multilingualism and job market in EU is being discussed.
12:05Where are we stuck?
12:07Is it a matter of right?
12:09Will we worship someone to get someone's rights?
12:14At least Narendra Modi's government has never committed this sin, nor will it do it in the coming days.
12:20Meanwhile, AGMK team met former Orissa Chief Minister Naveen Patnaik to discuss delimitation,
12:27which will redraw Lok Sabha constituencies based on a new census.
12:33The DMK is also sending leaders to the other states in the coming days
12:37in an attempt to drum up support on language policy and delimitation.
12:49So let's get two sides of that big language war.
12:53Earlier I spoke to the DMK's P. Thyagarajan and I also spoke to Tamil Sai Samdarajan of the BJP.
13:01Two articulate voices. Listen in.
13:11My first guest is the senior DMK minister in the Tamil Nadu government, Dr. P. Thyagarajan,
13:17better known as PTR, joins me.
13:19We appreciate your joining us, PTR.
13:21The charge against the Tamil Nadu government and the DMK is that you're using language and delimitation
13:27as political weapons to whip up an emotional hysteria in Tamil Nadu
13:32against the centre ahead of next year's Tamil Nadu elections.
13:36This is pure politics you're playing with language and delimitation.
13:40Your response?
13:43As far as the language is concerned, the union education minister started the problem
13:49by declining to send over the funds that were already allocated in the budget.
13:54We didn't start this debate. We didn't start this issue.
13:57It started with the union education minister refusing to release the Samadhi Siksha Abhiyan fund.
14:04Second, delimitation has always been at the forefront of our mind.
14:09Obviously, as the clock ticks down to 2026, it gets more and more urgent.
14:14So there is a natural progression of that.
14:17Most importantly, I want to say, here is a party that has, for the last 12 years or so,
14:23used all kinds of emotional disturbances and creation of tensions as their political tool
14:31and therefore is now projecting onto us.
14:34I studied cognitive psychology in my doctoral studies.
14:38I'm sure you've heard of the term projection.
14:40They are projecting onto us the behaviour that they have themselves perfected
14:44and we are actually talking about issues.
14:46Some of these issues are time-bound and the second issue of language is thrust upon us by their behaviour.
14:54How is it thrust? No, no, no. One minute.
14:57One minute. PTR, how is language being thrust on you?
15:01I want to quote what the education minister said today in Parliament, Dharmendra Pradhan.
15:08He says, National Education Policy 2020 is focused on different languages of India,
15:13be it Hindi, Tamil, Odia or Punjabi.
15:16All languages have equal importance in Tamil Nadu.
15:19Few are opposing it only because of politics.
15:22He says, nothing is being thrust down Tamil Nadu's throat.
15:26I say that the three-language formula itself is being thrust down our throats.
15:32You know what pains me a lot about these debates is that nobody bothers to go and read history.
15:37Just let's remember this is the third time that a national education policy has been put out since independence.
15:44There was one in 1968 that was actually passed as a bill in Parliament.
15:48There was one in 1986 and there was one in 2020.
15:52In 1968, the bill passed in Parliament calling for a three-language formula.
15:58And it said that the Hindi-speaking states and the non-Hindi-speaking states should be treated differently.
16:04The non-Hindi-speaking states should have local language English and Hindi.
16:09And the Hindi-speaking states should have English, Hindi and a modern southern language.
16:17This was the 1968 bill passed in Parliament.
16:21That was before the amendment that put education on the concurrent list.
16:25After the amendment that put education on the concurrent list, there was a 1986 policy.
16:31And the 1986 policy, if anybody bothers to go and read this,
16:35says very explicitly that nobody has been able to implement the three-language formula properly.
16:41Among other reasons, because the northern states have not been able to get qualified teachers
16:46to teach any languages other than Hindi and English.
16:49So here you have abject failure after abject failure.
16:53And this government, for the first time, weaponizes its decisions and its preferences extra-constitutionally
17:01and tells us we have to adopt the NEP in full, otherwise we don't get the funds.
17:06We are fighting back.
17:09No, you're saying they started the fight, you're fighting back.
17:11The truth of the matter is 1968 and 1986, which you quoted are both
17:15when there were Congress governments, your allies at the center,
17:18they tried to bring in the three-language formula, which you opposed, which led to language wars.
17:23Now the government is saying we are actually moving away from that and making everything optional.
17:28The government now says the new three-language formula does not make Hindi compulsory.
17:33I think you should get your history correctly.
17:35We were not always in alliance with the Congress.
17:38Your allies presently, your present allies.
17:42We oppose the Congress. That's not the point. The point is not alliance or not.
17:45The point is Tamil Nadu has a very clear view.
17:49We are only going to teach two languages in our schools.
17:53We try to get the best outcomes we can.
17:55We think there's enough headroom for improvement when you have a two-language formula.
17:59We have produced spectacularly better results than the national average,
18:03certainly better results than any state that claims to be putting a three-language formula.
18:07PTR, please show me in this document where is the word written that Hindi is mandatory.
18:14Sir, with due regard, please show me where in this particular document is the word Hindi being made mandatory.
18:23It is also suggested that many of your ministers send their sons to private schools where they learn Hindi.
18:28But I want to know from you where in the NEP is it being made mandatory?
18:32Where? Please show me the line.
18:34The point is very clear.
18:38There are only 34 ministers and 80 million people.
18:42Stop making inane arguments about 34 people's children.
18:45The point is anybody who wants to study any language in Tamil Nadu can study it anywhere.
18:50We are not banning it in any school.
18:52The Dakshin Bharat Hindi Prachad Sabha headquarters is in Chennai,
18:57and they run classes for whoever wants to take it, and they're funded usually by the government.
19:02The government spends 100 times as much money in promoting and propagating Hindi than it does any other language.
19:09We have not taken one step against that.
19:11The point is we will not teach three languages in school. Period.
19:15That has been the case whether a Congress government proposed it or a BJP government proposed it.
19:20We will not teach three languages in school.
19:22Not only do we have good evidence that the two-language formula works,
19:26we have zero evidence, absolutely none, that anybody has been able to do three languages properly.
19:32We will not do it. Period.
19:34Okay. What stops you, though, from keeping it optional?
19:37The fact is the students. The students decide.
19:40You're someone who's been a worldly, wise person.
19:44Allow students to choose and parents to choose.
19:47I ask you again, where is the word mandatory?
19:50PTR, one minute. Let's get this clear.
19:53Where is the word mandatory used for Hindi?
19:56You have millions of children in school.
19:58You're trying to run a system that is costing you tens of thousands of crores.
20:02You are not yet getting the best results you can.
20:05Struggling after COVID, you've fallen behind dramatically.
20:08At least in Tamil Nadu, we run a remedial education.
20:11Whichever state has done it.
20:12Anybody can sit in Delhi and talk all kinds of nonsense.
20:15Do you know what it's going to take to actually expand the syllabus?
20:19How many tens of thousands of new teachers you'd have to get?
20:22How many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of hours of training you'd have to give?
20:27How many? And that is if you're only going to use a standard third language.
20:30You're going to have multiple third languages.
20:32What are you talking about?
20:33The burden of education for those who are coming from underprivileged communities is already so high.
20:39You're not getting the results you want.
20:41It's easy for somebody to sit in three languages, five languages, ten languages.
20:45What does it take to actually implement it on the ground?
20:47Which state has been able to implement two languages in the north in a reasonable way compared to us?
20:52What is the fear?
20:54Nobody who's actually operating on the ground can actually talk this nonsense.
20:59What is the fear though? What is the fear?
21:01Is it a fear, as you said, of not having adequate teachers who can teach Hindi?
21:06What is the actual fear?
21:08We are having a load of the curriculum that is not easy for everybody to adapt to.
21:16Equitable education, standard education is at the core of social justice and equal access.
21:22We have focused on that for more than 100 years.
21:26We want to continue to do that.
21:28We have zero evidence that going to three languages helps anything.
21:32It makes no sense to me that people who have much, much worse outcomes than Tamil Nadu
21:37come and tell us how we ought to do education.
21:41Since you say history is irrelevant, you may feel that way.
21:45I try to learn from history.
21:46In 1986, in the second NEP, after they say that the first NEP has failed to do three languages,
21:53they actually put in the words that this decision of whether to do three languages or not should be left to the state.
22:01This is after it was moved to the concurrency.
22:03Because they understand the logistics, the operational complexity, the training, the headroom
22:09that is required for you to move up to this syllabus is going to be so much higher
22:14that you can't dictate it from Delhi.
22:16Every government that has enough actual thought process understands this.
22:21It's only a dictator that says my way or the highway when they don't have to implement it.
22:25Tell me one BJP rule state where they have implemented the three language formula properly and got decent results.
22:31Just tell me one.
22:33As I said, you know, I didn't ever say history is irrelevant.
22:37I in fact only pointed out that the Congress party was the one which was in power in 68 and 86.
22:44But forget that. Let's focus on today.
22:46The point is how much of this therefore is the lack of trust between Chennai and Delhi.
22:52Whether it comes to delimitation, whether government is saying, Amit Shah is openly saying
22:56any change will be pro-Rata, no state will lose out, he claims.
23:00On education, the education minister is saying Tamil Nadu will not be forced to embrace Hindi,
23:06no school will be forced.
23:07Is this ultimately a trust deficit?
23:10Or is this, as I said at the outset, playing politics ahead of elections next year,
23:14creating a South versus North divide?
23:17You can repeat the charge of the central government, the union government all you want.
23:22It means nothing.
23:23I'm telling you that our principles are most important to us.
23:26We will not adopt the three language formula.
23:29I'm telling you that the behavior of the union government, whether it comes to these kind of
23:34extra constitutional conditions propped at the last minute on every centrally sponsored scheme.
23:39You must put the prime minister's photo on the card.
23:41You must do politics.
23:42You must call it this.
23:43You use 293D to restrain our borrowing.
23:46You use governors who are sitting on unanimously passed bills that have never been in the history of the country.
23:53You have every way, the weaponizing of the process of government, of governors,
23:58and of funds from the government of India.
24:00Then you ask us, oh, is there a trust deficit?
24:02What, we're sensitive human beings.
24:04We understand from the facts.
24:05We understand from the developments.
24:07I don't understand why Paris is lying from Delhi.
24:10It's politics.
24:11It's politics.
24:12Hey, think.
24:13We have experience.
24:14We have data.
24:15We have examples.
24:16The bills are sitting in.
24:17Tens of bills are sitting with the governor, but he's not bothered to sign.
24:20The Supreme Court has pulled him off.
24:22So what do you mean that you send a re-passed bill again to the president?
24:26Where do you have the option for this?
24:27Why don't you remember all that?
24:29You've forgotten that you said, are you playing politics?
24:31The elections are a year away.
24:32Do I need to start playing politics now?
24:34I'm four years into a five-year term.
24:36It's more than 14 months away.
24:37Surely if I'm smart, I'll play politics when the elections come, not now.
24:41I do fear, therefore, that if this debate carries on in this manner, both on language and delimitation,
24:47it's somewhere going to hit the federal character.
24:50Is this what this is about?
24:52States, you called, you on this program said the center is behaving like a dictator.
24:56Somewhere, is this the federal compact, in your view, being destroyed?
25:00The federal compact has been systematically eroded and attacked from the first day the government took office.
25:07In every possible way.
25:09I've just told you a number of channels in which they've done it.
25:12From adding extra-cost conditions to the release of money,
25:17to extra-cost conditions using loopholes to limit borrowing of the state,
25:21to not passing bills that are unanimously approved by an elected legislature across all parties in the House.
25:30What more evidence do you want that the federal character of this country has been systematically attacked
25:36for the last 12 years of this government, 11 years of this government?
25:39Why should we not now have to worry about it?
25:42We have evidence, we have hard data, we have experience.
25:45So we say it is going down only one path.
25:47It is great centralization.
25:49And I keep telling you again and again, the exact processes and the exact steps
25:54that the current Prime Minister attacked and dismantled when he was Chief Minister of Gujarat,
26:00they are doing that and more right now.
26:02So his approach has changed.
26:04When he was the State Chief Minister and when he was the Prime Minister,
26:07our position has stayed the same.
26:09We are a regional party, we have always stood for states' rights,
26:11we have always stood for federalism,
26:13and we are not going to value the children being educated properly
26:17because our results tell us we are on the right path.
26:20I am going to ask you therefore in conclusion, do you see a resolution?
26:23At the moment it seems that M.K. Stalin, the Chief Minister,
26:26is trying to get Ghana support from the southern states, from regional parties,
26:30both on the language issue and delimitation.
26:33Is this heading for a confrontation or do you believe if the Prime Minister invites M.K. Stalin,
26:38this can be resolved?
26:41If the union government policies function in the spirit of federalism, this can be resolved.
26:47If they continuously act authoritarian and try to put a big stop,
26:52especially on those states where they are not able to make inroads
26:55because education levels are high, because development levels are high, this is going to go on.
26:59But I want to pose a question to you for a slight difference.
27:03How is it that states like us who have limited ambition, free language,
27:08and get everybody to that level, or we say when we are going to lockdown,
27:12we are going to lockdown with two months or I mean like two days notice
27:15and we are going to do things right.
27:17States like us who have limited ambition and who succeed at achieving that ambition
27:22or nearly are considered not so successful.
27:26And then we have these like grand ambitions, free language,
27:30which has never been achieved anywhere, which has been flagged for many, many decades.
27:34And then they fail spectacularly.
27:37They are not even able to get one language to the right level.
27:40The average education in Bihar is elementary school dropout.
27:44Here you are talking about free language as if free language is a proven formula.
27:48So here you have two questions.
27:50Is it that the censors believe that just making grand ambitions,
27:55which result in utter failure, is the way to do politics?
27:59Or is it that they want to keep stirring the pot,
28:02by keeping on putting some kind of attack onto those who are succeeding
28:06to distract from their own failure?
28:09What has been the state of India's economy?
28:11What has been the state of India's rankings in the global industry
28:14of transparency on human development of any measure?
28:17What has happened in the last 10-12 years of this government?
28:20And yet they keep acting as if they are going to tell us a new secret to suggest.
28:24But effectively when I'm hearing you,
28:27I am seeing you again playing the politics of pitting in a way
28:31southern states and Tamil Nadu especially versus the Bimaru state.
28:35Is that healthy for the unity?
28:37No, no, you mentioned Bihar specifically.
28:39Is this healthy for the unity and integrity of the country?
28:43Shouldn't the country have a common education policy?
28:45You know what is healthy for the unity of this country?
28:49That the country should focus on lifting the hundreds of millions of people
28:54in the northern belt, the so-called Hindi belt,
28:57to a level that is compatible to the south.
29:00That is the healthiest thing.
29:02As a patriot, I wish for that fervently.
29:04Instead of doing that, if you keep on attacking the south
29:07and trying to drag them down, what do you expect us to do?
29:10I say as the greatest patriot, my greatest concern,
29:14even more than whether Tamil Nadu should do much better,
29:17which is already doing very well,
29:19is why are the children in the poorest states not doing well?
29:23How do we fix that?
29:24That's the main thing we want to work on.
29:26Okay, okay. I'm going to leave it there.
29:29I'm going to leave it there.
29:30Why does PTR get angry?
29:32Is what we've got a sense of.
29:34You're clearly angry at the moment as is your state leadership,
29:38but I'm going to leave it there.
29:40Thank you very much for joining me on the show tonight.
29:45Okay, we've heard from PTR of the DMK.
29:48Let's go now to Tamil Sai Soundarajan,
29:51a former governor of Telangana
29:53and also a senior leader of the BJP in Tamil Nadu.
29:57Another perspective.
29:58Appreciate your joining us, ma'am.
30:00You may have heard P. Tyagarajan there attacking the center,
30:04saying they are destroying the federal character of the country.
30:07This is a pathway to dictatorship,
30:09to impose a three-language formula.
30:11How do you respond?
30:12Are we seeing a growing divide once again between Delhi and Chennai, ma'am,
30:16because of this national education policy?
30:23First of all, good evening.
30:25Vanakkam. Namaste.
30:27This three-language policy is...
30:30Vanakkam.
30:31Three-language policy is necessary for the development.
30:38And PTR Palanivelarajan, I know very well.
30:41He himself knows different languages.
30:44But federalism, what is federalism?
30:46Federalism is a good relationship between the center and the state
30:50to bring out good schemes to the people.
30:53But from the beginning, whatever may be the scheme,
30:56not only NEP,
30:57whether it is whatever the scheme,
31:02they deny the good opportunity for the people to get the central schemes.
31:11For example, Vishwakarma scheme.
31:13Vishwakarma scheme, eight and a half lakh people applied for that.
31:18But they denied it.
31:19This Jnanao Shodhi shops,
31:21it's a prime minister's shop,
31:23ten years it is running,
31:25and it is benefiting the poor people.
31:29But now they have changed it to CM shops.
31:32So whatever may be the scheme,
31:34they don't want to accept the central schemes.
31:37Let me quote what Dharmendra Pradhan said in the Lok Sabha yesterday.
31:41He said, DMK is dishonest.
31:43They are not committed to the students of Tamil Nadu.
31:46They are ruining the future of Tamil Nadu students.
31:48They are doing mischief.
31:49They are undemocratic and uncivilized.
31:51Is this the kind of words that should be used?
31:54This, according to many Tamil Nadu politicians,
31:57is showing the bias that the centre has towards Tamil Nadu
32:00because Tamil Nadu doesn't vote for the BJP.
32:06No, he did not have any intention of insulting the Tamils.
32:10He clearly mentioned about the activity and attitude of the Tamil Nadu member of parliaments.
32:17But you are calling them uncivilized?
32:19He is calling them uncivilized. Do you share that?
32:22Do you believe that Kadimodi or DMK leaders are uncivilized?
32:25He took back the words.
32:30I am telling, not uncivilized, but twisting the words.
32:34It may be expressed in a different way.
32:37But it is true, no?
32:39They are behaving as if they are custodians of Tamil.
32:42But they are promoting English.
32:44They are not promoting the third language.
32:46All the private schools are teaching three languages.
32:50All the affluent school children are learning three languages.
32:54Why do they deceive the government school children?
32:57Kadimodi is telling, our language policy is only two language policy.
33:02Then I am asking one question.
33:04You are not including the private school children as Tamil children.
33:08You are not including the children who are studying in the CBSE school as Tamil population.
33:13So, two language policy means, two language policy for government school children
33:18and three language policy for private school children.
33:21Then in the widened opportunity, the private school children will have more opportunity to get jobs in higher education.
33:28Ma'am, the claim which PTR made is that the state is not ready for a three language formula.
33:34A three language formula will require the kind of organization which does not exist on the ground
33:43in terms of teachers, in terms of preparing the education system for it.
33:48The two language formula according to him is working perfectly.
33:52Why do you need to impose a third language?
33:55And the fear is, that third language will be Hindi.
33:58Why they fear?
34:03Repeatedly, our honourable education minister from the centre and the leaders of Tamil Nadu BJP
34:09clearly mentioned, it is not imposition.
34:12But they are imposing the imposition.
34:15Wantedly they are doing it.
34:17They don't want the government children to get the education on par with the private school children.
34:23We are repeatedly asking, all the ministers' children, all the ministers' grandchildren
34:28are learning Hindi, are learning three languages.
34:32Why they deny this opportunity to the government school children?
34:37They say the government school system is not ready for it.
34:39They claim the government school system is not ready for a three language formula.
34:44They say, even the north Indian states are unable to impose a three language formula.
34:49Why do you want to impose it or thrust it down on the south?
34:52No, only state.
34:57Their leader Anna Durai said, when other states start following the three language policy,
35:03we also will follow.
35:05Because they have to, the growth should be on par with other states.
35:08They cannot, they falsely say they have not developed,
35:12even Andhra Pradesh says, even Telangana, as Telangana governor I have seen,
35:17all of them learn three languages.
35:19It's a language, it's a linking language.
35:22They don't want the government schools.
35:25Again and again we are asking, why don't you prepare the government schools
35:30for the children to learn the three language policy?
35:33Why there is discrimination between the private schools and the government schools?
35:38How do you respond?
35:40You made that point, Tamil Sai Soundararajan, you made that point.
35:45The question is, could this not have been done with more consultation?
35:48The fear is, all of this is being done by diktat.
35:51The charge which is being made is that the Modi government is behaving like autocrats,
35:56forcing the national education policy on states like Tamil Nadu,
36:00and that is not acceptable, education is in the concurrent list,
36:04you've got to do it by consultation.
36:06No, it is not forcing.
36:11If we know the history of NEP, how it got implemented,
36:15how it got the consultation from lakhs and lakhs of educationists,
36:20schools and the students and parents, after that only NEP was introduced.
36:26During that time they did not deny any opportunity,
36:30they did not oppose it, just like that NEP was not introduced.
36:35It was introduced after a good time of consultation,
36:40consulting large number of people, after that only it was introduced.
36:45So how can they say it is not introduced?
36:47It is introduced without consultation.
36:49And another thing I am asking, one question,
36:52why did they accept initially to sign an MOU for PM Shri without knowing they did all this?
37:00They did a U-turn as our Honorable Pradhan is telling,
37:03because of political mileage, because if PM Shri is introduced,
37:08if three-language policy is introduced, the children will study well,
37:13and the children will appreciate the central schemes,
37:15they don't want to, for that, politically,
37:19they want to deny the opportunity for government schools.
37:22Repeatedly we are asking why that opportunity given to private school children,
37:27affluent school children, why it is denied for only the poor children?
37:31In the future opportunities, when the opportunities are open,
37:35in the open opportunity, when both is the government school child,
37:39and the private school child goes for an interview,
37:42more opportunity will be given to the private school children.
37:45Why this discrimination?
37:48Do you believe though that a majority of the Tamil people believe that this is an imposition,
37:53or Hindi through the back door, as the DMK is claiming,
37:56that the people of Tamil Nadu are against it, do you believe that the people are against it or not, ma'am?
38:01No, no, people are not against it. You would have seen in the media,
38:07I went to get the signature, the police surrounded me,
38:12three hours I was standing in the sun, but immediately when the police cleared,
38:16immediately people came forward, in spite of the custody,
38:20in spite of the police enforcement, they came and they signed it.
38:24And even in our internet, we have opened a net consultation for the NEP,
38:31and in that more than 5 lakh people have signed within 4 days.
38:35So online they are signing.
38:38So you are willing to challenge the DMK, you are challenging the DMK,
38:43when they say that the people of Tamil Nadu do not want the three language formula,
38:47you are claiming that the people wanted, that Dharmendra Pradhan has done this through consultation,
38:53and that it is not being imposed by Delhi, am I correct?
38:57Yeah, I am very sure, because in the Prachar Sabha,
39:03more Tamil people are going and learning Hindi, so people want to learn Hindi.
39:08So this is, they are telling, a two language policy helped them,
39:12but this is the challenging world, in the widened horizon, the world has become a village,
39:18so the children should face more challenges in the future,
39:22to face the challenges, they have to learn more languages, and another thing,
39:26NEP is not only language, it is high tech education,
39:30why they are denying that high tech education to the government school children.
39:36Is your Hindi correct, Tamil Saundarajan, is your Hindi good or not?
39:43Is your Hindi good or not?
39:45I am learning it now.
39:46Okay, you are learning it now, okay.
39:48I am learning it now.
40:06There is now a growing face-off over fake voter IDs, with Bengal as the focus.
40:11A delegation of 10 Trinamool Congress members met the Election Commission today,
40:16in the National Capital, and claimed that there were duplication of electoral photo identity card numbers taking place.
40:22The TMC has alleged manipulation of electoral rolls.
40:26Meanwhile, a BJP delegation, led by Amit Malviya, also met the poll body,
40:31and they too are accusing the Mamata Banerjee government here,
40:35of including illegal infiltrators in Bengal's electoral list. Listen in.
41:01We emphasized on the need for an audit and voter roll revision.
41:17We have apprised the Election Commission that there are 13 lakh, 3065 duplicate voters in Bengal,
41:29where the name of the voter, relative name and his age, are the same.
41:36There are about 8,415 voters with similar epic numbers.
41:44The face-off over epic numbers, likely to become a big poll battle in Bengal.
41:49Let's turn to the US markets, which are still volatile.
41:52They got a beating, remember, on Monday, where there was a $4 trillion wipeout of the markets.
41:58Now the Dow Jones Industrial Average falling further on opening today,
42:03after President Donald Trump imposed another 25% tariff on Canadian steel and aluminium.
42:09Yesterday, Wall Street marked its worst day since 2022.
42:13The S&P 500 plunging 2.7%, the Dow falling 890%,
42:19the sell-off being triggered by escalating fears over President Trump's aggressive tariff policies,
42:26Trump saying that the US economy was in a period of transition.
42:32Across the world, all markets have been in the red, and that really is the worry going ahead.
42:39Ritham Desai, one of the country's leading analysts,
42:43managing director at Morgan Stanley India, joins me.
42:47Ritham, we've seen a $4 trillion wipeout in the US markets.
42:52Across the world, markets in the red.
42:54Is this the Donald Trump effect, or is there something more?
42:59Thanks, Rajdeep.
43:01Good to be on your show.
43:03So actually, you know, markets trade earnings.
43:07That's what they trade.
43:08And earnings in America started peaking in December.
43:13So it's just coinciding with a lot of uncertainty that has been produced by US policy.
43:19But the fact is that earnings started peaking in December.
43:22So things were turning a little less attractive in America.
43:25As you know, America has been on a roll, especially since the global financial crisis has been the bellwether market for the world.
43:34But it does appear that the markets are now worried that the economy in the US will be slipping into recession.
43:41And, you know, part of this is attributed to what President Trump is doing.
43:46You know, that R word, you mentioned recession.
43:49Donald Trump, when asked a question, said he wasn't ruling it out.
43:52How real is that threat of a US recession?
43:55And if that happens, could we be then seeing a prolonged downturn and not just a short-term correction?
44:02So it's not our base case that the US will slip into recession.
44:06Because remember, interest rates are still high in America.
44:09So the Fed has a lot of ammunition to react in the case growth slows down perceptibly in America.
44:17So there is room for them to reduce interest rates very quickly to counter such a slowdown.
44:24But yeah, there is a growing fear in the market, even though it's not our base case that we will get into recession this year.
44:31But so are you more confident that this is basically a short-term correction?
44:36Are you more confident that six months from now, things will be better, particularly from an Indian perspective?
44:42Is India, in a sense, could be a potential beneficiary?
44:47Yeah, so two parts to that question, Rajdeep.
44:49I don't know about the US, because frankly, it depends on what eventual policies get rolled out.
44:55With respect to tariffs, with respect to DOJ, and all the other things that are up for debate and are being done in the US.
45:04So that's a little invulnerable.
45:06India, I think, is a little different.
45:09We have, and I dare say, this decoupled from the rest of the world over the past few years.
45:17We're not dependent so much on global capital flows as we used to be in the past.
45:22And to that extent, this hurts us a lot less.
45:26In fact, if you look at India's export performance and just strip out oil and oil products from it, we're actually doing quite okay.
45:33So India is gaining share in global exports, both services and goods, especially services.
45:40And the domestic economy that did go through a bit of a rough patch the second half of last year,
45:46particularly because of slowdown in government spending, is, I think, reversing quite nicely in this quarter.
45:53And you can see that in the GST collections.
45:56Growth rate in the fourth quarter of 2024, 8.3 percent.
46:01Year-to-date, it's already at 12 percent.
46:04So there is a recovery underway.
46:06It's led largely by a recovery in government spending and what I call is the policy pivot from RBI.
46:12So RBI seems now committed to get growth back.
46:15And that will help the domestic economy.
46:17So I think India is okay.
46:19We've had our own correction, actually, which happened before the US stocks started falling.
46:25And my own view is that a lot of that is already now done.
46:29You know, you seem to suggest the Indian, you know, Indian economy has less to worry about.
46:34But the fact is, foreign investors have been rapidly pulling out of their money out of Indian markets in the last few months.
46:40How much of that is driven by global risk aversion versus domestic economic factors?
46:45You seem a little bit more hopeful that the domestic economy will recover over the next three to six months.
46:52No, there are three parts to that, Rajdeep.
46:54It's not just one factor.
46:55So clearly the slowdown in the domestic economy that happened last second half of last year has unnerved foreign investors.
47:03And some of this outflow is relating to that.
47:06The second reason is that, remember, China put in a lot of stimulus in September last year.
47:11And the Chinese economy, and especially the stock market, started doing very well.
47:16So they started attracting more inflows.
47:19So that could have been another reason.
47:21The global situation right now is a little uncertain.
47:25So that also matters.
47:27But primarily, India has a very strong domestic investor base.
47:33And if you come into the stock market every single day, domestic investors are buying stocks.
47:39And in practice, there are only two players in the market.
47:43There are domestic investors and there are foreign investors.
47:46And if one cohort keeps buying stocks every day, the other cohort has to sell.
47:51Otherwise, you don't get a trade.
47:53So the only way foreign investors can start participating in the likely growth recovery that I'm talking about
47:59is that corporate issuers come to the table and say, OK, here we are.
48:03We've got some fresh issuances.
48:05We'll give you some new shares.
48:07And that's how foreign investors can participate.
48:09Or domestic investors have to start giving up, which, Rajdeep, I don't think is happening.
48:15A lot of people suspected it will happen, but they withstood a very, very bad January and February
48:21and are still there in the market.
48:23So at the end, net-net, don't worry.
48:26Be cautious.
48:28But there is no need to panic.
48:30Am I correct?
48:31I think you summarized it well.
48:33There's no need to panic.
48:34I think India is good.
48:35Of course, if there is a recession in the US, it will create pain.
48:39And we are part of the world.
48:41We are amongst the top five economies in the world.
48:43So we can't remain totally unscathed.
48:45But I think we have our own factors at play.
48:47And a lot of investors abroad will recognize that with the passage of time and return to the Indian markets.
48:54OK, I'm going to leave it there, Ritam Desai, for, in a sense, giving a sense of comfort
48:59on what's been a rather turbulent 36 hours.
49:02Thank you very much for joining me there.
49:04Ritam Desai or Morgan Stanley, appreciate you joining us on the show.
49:08I want to leave you, though, with a happy story.
49:12Sporty physical activities can be challenging often for people above the age of 60.
49:16I'm going to turn 60 in three months.
49:18As many would already be bothered by leg pain, joint aches and limited physical strength.
49:23All problems that I have, too.
49:25The awareness around healthy living and staying fit, though, is growing exponentially.
49:29Today, I leave you with one such story of weightlifter dadi, Roshni Devi Sangwan,
49:34who started lifting weights at 68, despite being an arthritis patient.
49:38Now she's a professional powerlifter and is training under her son and trainer, Chaudhary Ajay Sangwan.
49:44It's never too late to learn how to lift weights.
49:47You stay well, stay safe. Good night, Shubhratri. Jai Hind, Namaskar. Take a look.
50:08Even at 70 years of age, Roshni Devi Sangwan pulls her weight, lifting 40 to 60 kilos with ease.
50:15She works out every day to keep her body fit.
50:39Roshni Devi got this passion for fitness from her son, Ajay, who is a fitness trainer.
50:45He works out with her daily.
50:48But the start wasn't easy.
51:08Roshni Devi is an inspiration for other trainees.
51:38Right now, seeing her lifting this much at her weight, it's a very big thing for me.
51:58Walking on the treadmill, Roshni Devi shares her diet plan, which is no limit on anything.
52:09I eat samosas, satsang, prasad, pursuit.
52:12I eat sweets.
52:15I eat samosas, satsang, pursuit.
52:18I eat samosas, satsang, pursuit.
52:23She has only one message to all.
52:26Take care of your health.
52:29Exercise.
52:31Do exercise.
52:33Take care of your health.
52:35With Manisha Ladda, Bureau Report, India Today.