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Enjoy this blast from the past from the EarthX Archives. 'Round the Fire was one of the first shows we produced and aired back in 2020. EarthX Media has grown a lot since then, but we still like to look back on these insightful conversations and see how far we've come.
Are the risks overstated, or will the coming storm change the way people interact with the natural world?
About 'Round the Fire:
Hunters and anglers sit around the (virtual) campfire to discuss conservation and environmental issues from the unique perspective of outdoorsmen. Sportsmen and women can be important allies in America's ongoing efforts to protect its landscapes.
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EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.
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Enjoy this blast from the past from the EarthX Archives. 'Round the Fire was one of the first shows we produced and aired back in 2020. EarthX Media has grown a lot since then, but we still like to look back on these insightful conversations and see how far we've come.
Are the risks overstated, or will the coming storm change the way people interact with the natural world?
About 'Round the Fire:
Hunters and anglers sit around the (virtual) campfire to discuss conservation and environmental issues from the unique perspective of outdoorsmen. Sportsmen and women can be important allies in America's ongoing efforts to protect its landscapes.
EarthX & EarthXtra
Love Our Planet.
The Official Network of Earth Day.
About Us:
At EarthX, we believe our planet is a pretty special place. The people, landscapes, and critters are likely unique to the entire universe, so we consider ourselves lucky to be here. We are committed to protecting the environment by inspiring conservation and sustainability, and our programming along with our range of expert hosts support this mission. We’re glad you’re with us.
EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.
EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/
Follow Us:
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How to watch:
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TVTranscript
00:00Hi folks, I'm Todd Tanner and I'm round the fire today with Craig Matthews and Trevor
00:21Nielsen.
00:22Craig is a hunter and an angler, a conservationist and an author.
00:29Trevor is an entrepreneur and a climate activist and we're going to talk about climate change
00:34today.
00:35That's the focus of today's round the fire.
00:37And I just want to kick things off with a really simple question for Trevor.
00:42Trevor, is the world warming?
00:45Well unequivocally 99.9% of climate scientists believe that it is.
00:52There's more carbon in our atmosphere than at any time in the last two or three thousand
00:58years in the last time there was this much CO2 in our atmosphere.
01:01There were no animals, mammals at least, living the earth, roaming the earth.
01:05There were lizards and things like that.
01:08And so yes, it is warming and it's warming in a really dangerous way.
01:13We're seeing the impacts of that every single day.
01:16Craig, what do you think?
01:19Are you seeing warming as well or is that something that just isn't happening where
01:22you are near Yellowstone?
01:23You know, two of my close friends lost their homes this past week due to fire near Bozeman.
01:31Sciences prove this time and time again, particularly with huge consequences for the American West.
01:39And I think it's time for us all to get beyond that because science has proved that the world
01:44really is warming.
01:46You're down outside of West Yellowstone.
01:48What changes are you seeing there that are the result of this kind of warming that we're
01:52having?
01:53Well, certainly we're seeing increased occurrences of fire.
01:59We're seeing decreased winter snowpack, higher summer and winter temperatures.
02:05We're receiving, we're seeing retreating alpine glaciers.
02:11And our warming climate is the primary source of the decline of winter snowpack, which has
02:16our natural water storage system and the primary source of water in many regions of
02:21the West.
02:22You know, a healthy snowpack means that the snow melts slowly through the warm summer
02:29months and feeds our rivers and streams, allowing them to maintain cooler flows throughout those
02:35summer months.
02:36And for cold water species like trout, it's a safety valve that gets them through the
02:41warmest times of the year.
02:43We're seeing mammals like wolverines that depend on late winter snow slides for denning.
02:49With earlier melting of these snow fields comes fewer denning sites and fewer wolverines.
02:55We're seeing cutthroat trout rearing streams dry up early in the summer before the newly
03:00hatched juvenile fry have a chance to migrate downstream and naturally replenish the fishery.
03:08Recently several Yellowstone country rivers and streams have been closed during the summer
03:13months with warmer temperatures, warmer water temperatures, as fish become stressed and
03:19thousands of fish have perished due to angling pressure during those warm summer water temperatures.
03:25Trevor, you're down in California, you're a West Coast guy.
03:31Are you seeing impacts down there as well, or is this...
03:35Oh, it's terrifying.
03:36I mean, my climate activism jumped up a notch when I had to stick my wife and our then three-year-old
03:46son and the family dog in the car and flee the Woolsey fire that tore through the Santa
03:54Monica mountains where I live.
03:57So I live technically in Malibu, but in a very rural area.
04:00We're surrounded by coyotes and mountain lions and all sorts of things.
04:06And that fire, which was the worst fire in the history of Southern California, burned
04:12down over a thousand structures.
04:15Many of my friends lost their houses.
04:18And this year, fire season is just really starting and we're seeing two or three fires
04:25in and around the Santa Monica mountains a day.
04:29And that's because of decades of drought that have left those mountains very much at
04:36risk to wildfire.
04:38It has absolutely nothing to do with forest management or any of the things that politicians
04:44in DC have been saying.
04:46It has to do with the fact that if you have year after year after year of drought, it's
04:51just a tinderbox ready to explode.
04:53Now that's here in Southern California, but up North, it's even worse.
04:59Throughout the mountains of Northern California, we have had hundreds and hundreds of fires.
05:04And today, right here where I sit in Santa Monica, the air is thick with smoke.
05:10And it's been that way for a few days.
05:12On Sunday, Los Angeles hit 121 degrees.
05:19That is the highest temperature ever recorded in the history of Los Angeles.
05:24I can't even describe to you the way that it felt.
05:27So anybody that thinks that we're not seeing changes in our temperature and changes in
05:34basic things that we thought were the way the world was going to be is just wrong.
05:39Well, I can empathize with that.
05:43And where I am up near Glacier National Park, we're seeing a lot of the same kinds of things.
05:48We're seeing forest fires earlier and we're seeing them later.
05:53We're seeing our snowpack melt earlier.
05:55Our rivers are running lower in the summer and there's less dissolved oxygen for the fish.
06:01I'm a really serious angler.
06:03I love to fly fish.
06:05And it's tough when the streams and rivers where we have just spent time over decades,
06:14all of a sudden they're too warm or they're too low or they're too hot.
06:18It's just it's not a good thing for anybody.
06:20And we see that also with insect infestations in our forests up here where literally our
06:27forests are dying.
06:30I look out my windows and I see dead and dying trees in both coniferous and deciduous trees.
06:36I see spruce dying, I see pine dying, I see birch dying.
06:42It's just it's crazy.
06:44And this is what happens when we don't pay attention.
06:48So I have a question for both you guys.
06:50Craig, I'd love for you to kick things off.
06:55Does it matter to you if people are responsible for this?
07:01Does that change the way we react to things?
07:04I feel there's certain bedrock values that we all share as Americans.
07:11We believe in fair play and we believe in looking out for our neighbors.
07:15And we believe certainly in liberty tempered by responsibility.
07:20And we believe it's our duty as members of local communities to take care of the natural
07:27world and the one that we've created, the one we've made, to operate in a sustainable
07:33and community building way.
07:35Today, 99% of us believe climate change is one of, if not the biggest threats facing
07:42our world.
07:43Our food systems are increasingly stressed.
07:47Our lands and waters and species are threatened like never before.
07:51And current funding to address climate change is certainly not enough.
07:55I find it hard to believe that only 3% of philanthropy goes to environmental causes.
08:01And of that, only 5% come from businesses and corporations.
08:08With all that needs to be done today in the environment.
08:13Environmental philanthropy is not enough.
08:16We need to change people's perspective of the way and the work that environmentalists
08:22do.
08:23We need to change their funding paradigm and we need to inspire companies and businesses
08:28to rise to the challenge.
08:31That's one of the reasons we founded our 1% for the Planet program.
08:35Realizing beside the fact that our businesses were dependent on using public lands, rivers,
08:41lakes and streams, we shared the belief that a healthy natural world is also essential
08:47for our survival, for human survival.
08:49Trevor, would you agree with Craig on that?
08:53Do you think that we're taking this seriously?
08:57First off, are people indeed responsible?
08:59And then how do we need to change the way we react if we're not doing what we need to
09:06do at this point in time?
09:07I would say that we're doing virtually nothing to address the greatest threat humanity has
09:12ever faced.
09:15Virtually nothing.
09:17And there are a lot of reasons for that.
09:19It's very clear now that the big oil industry, specifically ExxonMobil, knew about the dangerous
09:26effect of CO2 and the growth of the use of its products all the way back into about 1986.
09:34And undertook a campaign to obfuscate that issue.
09:39In fact, many of the same people that worked on the cigarette industry's campaigns to obfuscate
09:45the dangers of smoking also worked on big oil's campaigns.
09:50And they were very successful.
09:51You know, if you think about it, here we are in 2020.
09:55A lot of time has gone by since these memos, which have been produced in our public now,
10:00showing that ExxonMobil knew.
10:05And in the midst of that, they found a way to convince people on the right, hunters,
10:12anglers, a lot of people in rural communities, that somehow in order to have a conservative
10:18view or to be an outdoorsman, you needed to be on the side of big oil.
10:24Which if you think about it, doesn't make a damn bit of sense.
10:28I mean, to be a conservative is to want to conserve.
10:31To be a conservative is to want to be careful.
10:34So the whole thing has got spun around in a truly crazy way.
10:40And ExxonMobil and its allies have been very successful.
10:44Now, that's the bad news.
10:46The good news is that thinking people no longer buy them.
10:51They see what's happening to the climate.
10:53They see the role of fossil fuels.
10:56And all of the public opinion polling shows that this is a very serious concern for Americans.
11:02And the younger you are, the more serious a concern it is, which is why you see these
11:06massive grassroots movements around climate activism.
11:10So we're moving from this stage of climate denial, brought to us by big oil, into a new
11:18stage of partisanship, where Democrats tend to say one thing, Republicans tend to say
11:26another.
11:27I think that era is soon going to be over too.
11:30So despite the fact that I work on a somewhat dark and gloomy set of issues, I'm actually
11:35optimistic that we're moving into a new era of solutions and partnerships on this.
11:44And ultimately are going to see this as a society, as an engineering challenge, an innovation
11:50challenge, a conservation challenge, and moving out of the eras of denial and partisanship,
11:57which is exactly where we need to go.
12:00You know, it is insane that a guy that likes to fish brown trout or shoot elk or do the
12:10things that people love to do in the outdoors would believe they also need to support big
12:15oil in order to be a good Republican or conservative.
12:20It makes no sense.
12:24And that's what lobbying and PR does.
12:27Right.
12:28But I think we're moving beyond that.
12:31And I think that, you know, we don't have to talk too much about elections on this call,
12:35but if certain things happen in a certain way, we could find ourselves in a new and better
12:41environment to focus on practical solutions to the biggest problem the world has ever faced.
12:48Well, I agree completely.
12:50And Craig, why should we care about climate?
12:54Why do you care about it?
12:57You know, it takes several hours to even begin to discuss why should we care about climate.
13:05I think probably the best reason that I care about climate selfishly is my kids and grandkids.
13:13And all these young people that we've talked to, I recently spent a weekend in Iowa talking
13:19to students at Coe College and University of Iowa, who are really keen on learning about
13:25climate change and doing something about climate change.
13:29If you look at the evidence, for instance, of how it would affect Greenland's ice shield,
13:37which last year lost 66 tons of ice for each person on earth, the bad news is that ice
13:45shield is melting away faster than anticipated amid a warming climate.
13:50And if it were to melt away, it would raise entirely, it would raise sea levels by 20 feet.
13:58The Arctic has warmed at least twice as quickly as the rest of the world for the last three
14:02decades as the amount of greenhouse gases accumulates in the atmosphere.
14:07And this sobering process is like getting bad news from your doctor.
14:14It's depressing to see these new records.
14:18So we have to step up for our kids and our grandkids and all future generations.
14:23And now's the time to do it.
14:27We can't allow the earth to warm, you know, science is saying by as much as four degrees
14:33Celsius by the end of this century.
14:37Science and leading economists have spent a lot of time imagining what the world would
14:41look like after a four degree temperature rise.
14:45Sea levels would rise several feet, you know, laying waste to coastal cities and displacing
14:51millions if not billions of citizens.
14:56Forests would turn into deserts, coral reefs would disappear, food stocks would be in jeopardy.
15:01And economists report losses in income to the global economy would run $23 trillion
15:08annually, the equivalent to the impact of four repeats of the 2008 global financial
15:15crisis.
15:16So, you know, the only way to stave off this scenario is for all nations in the world to
15:22take bold and collective action along the lines of the Paris Climate Accord.
15:28The nations of the world have to come together and commit to take steps to reach that goal.
15:33And, you know, years ago, the US led the way.
15:37And then the Trump administration happened and pulled our country, the world's second
15:43largest greenhouse gas emitter out of the agreement and had our country in the wrong
15:50direction.
15:51The thing is, many smart and powerful world leaders have passed their own laws and are
15:57forming coalitions and new technologies, and they refuse to come to the fatalism and nihilism
16:03that infects our current presidential administration.
16:07So if we're to survive, we need to follow their lead now.
16:12And we can vote this November and put the US back in the position to lead this whole
16:17fight again.
16:20So Trevor, in addition to being an angler and a birdhunter, you're also a parent, you're
16:27a father, you've got a couple of kids.
16:31What are the risks you see to them if we don't get our act together and cut our emissions
16:37in the very, very near future?
16:39Well, you know, I have two amazing daughters and a son, and I think, you know, the way
16:48I see it at this point is the world they live in is going to be different than the world
16:53that we live in.
16:55The question is how much different.
16:59You know, these changes are underway.
17:02To some degree, the warming that has been created by our consumption of fossil fuels
17:08is baked in to the system.
17:10These greenhouse gases don't just leave our atmosphere.
17:14But we can avoid the worst of the worst if we act now and act in an aggressive way.
17:22And I couldn't agree more with Craig that what we do as a country, you know, in the
17:28next coming years will really be what determines the severity of the crisis and the sort of
17:37world that our kids live in.
17:40I think that a lot of the places that we all grew up in or spend time in now are going
17:49to be gone.
17:52I think it's very hard to imagine, you know, the rivers that support trout, you know, existing
18:00in the way they exist today, 10 or 20 years from now.
18:05Wildfires alone are absolutely devastating forests all over the country, and those forests
18:10don't bounce right back.
18:14And you know, for bird hunters, the places where wild birds are found are shifting constantly.
18:22They aren't in places that they used to be found anymore, and that's a function of a
18:26cascading series of changes around our climate and our ecosystem and their food sources,
18:33you know, and things like that.
18:35So for me, what this is about is fighting to try to let our kids and our, eventually
18:43for me, grandkids, have some version of what we all took for granted.
18:51And it's interesting because I do think that people that spend time in the outdoors have
18:56a different connection to this issue than people who live in cities.
19:03And it's an issue that really should bring everybody together.
19:06And again, that's that partisan divide that was created by the industry because they needed
19:13a partisan divide in order to live.
19:18If you're a climate activist and you live in New York City and you've never caught a
19:22fish in your life and you would never think about shooting a bird, although you may have
19:26just ordered a chicken sandwich at lunch, you know, if you want to support the fight
19:31against the climate emergency and the support to stop our most fragile ecosystems from collapsing,
19:37that's wonderful.
19:38You know, people don't have to spend time in the country, in forests, in, you know,
19:45in grasslands and all the places that we like to go in order to appreciate those places.
19:52And I think that we've got to move past this us versus them thing on climate and embrace
19:58the notion that it is an existential threat to absolutely all of us.
20:03And no matter what our politics are, we have to come together to address it.
20:07Yeah, that's, that's as close as you can get to, you know, you just nailed it.
20:15I can't disagree at all.
20:18I'll just make the point that I think a lot of us, a lot of sportsmen, a lot of folks
20:25who love the outdoors, feel a moral responsibility, feel a real sense that we have to get engaged
20:31on this.
20:32It's the largest threat, the single biggest threat that we face right now.
20:36Whether you're a hunter, whether you're an angler, whether you just love to camp or fish
20:39or hike or bike or whatever it might be, climate change is a huge threat to our landscapes
20:47in our waters.
20:49So Craig, I guess my question is, where do we go from here?
20:54What can we do going forward?
20:55How can we change things?
20:57You know, first we can learn about it and its negative effects on the things that we
21:02love like fishing and hunting.
21:04But what we really have to do and what we really have to concentrate on is learn to
21:08speak a little louder, clearer and more frequently when discussing climate change.
21:15And still convincing folks that climate change is happening is not the point, the real point.
21:20The point is getting those who consider themselves environmentalists to vote.
21:26The last time around, 16 million environmentalists did not vote in the last major election.
21:33I had a good friend, Nathaniel Stennett, founder of EVP, Environmental Voter Project.
21:39A lot of people haven't heard of that.
21:42But he realized that if he could get hunters and anglers and other environmentalists to
21:46vote, and they'd show up in the polls of likely voters, and so would their priorities,
21:52like climate change.
21:54Politicians would have to pay attention to them and get elected, and those issues would
21:58come into the natural conservation.
22:02Stennett says that while many may be depressing that so many environmentalists don't vote,
22:08it may be an enormous opportunity, a huge opportunity, and his program is working.
22:15And recently, in his first attempt with the Environmental Voter Project, it increased
22:21voter turnout in multiple elections by 5%.
22:26Think of it, 5% of 16 million.
22:28And in states like Pennsylvania, Georgia, Colorado, Nevada, and Florida, an army of
22:34almost 2,000 volunteers today are targeting 2.5 million voters in this year's election.
22:42So I think that it's really important that sportsmen should consider supporting organizations
22:50like EVP, 1% for the Planet business members, and Fly Fishing Climate Alliance members.
22:57Because by supporting these businesses, what I call capital, conservation capital dollars
23:04and giving back to environmental programs to combat climate change, in this case, both
23:10sportsmen and businesses will be leading by example for others to follow and cooperate
23:16in a sustainable way for others to see and mold their programs after.
23:21Community building is key here, and there's never been a greater need for our community
23:25everywhere approach to solutions, because even in our hyper-divisive political climate,
23:32conservation does not have a real party.
23:35Within the community that we built, we can come together on issues like climate change
23:39and work towards solutions.
23:41And the really good news is solving climate change can be done with little harm to our
23:45economy.
23:46With our 1% for the Planet program, I've seen business members step up in the western states
23:53for clean energy solutions like solar and geothermal energy projects.
23:59And many grassroots activist organizations in the hunting and fishing community, like
24:04the Fly Fishing Climate Alliance, International Federation of Fly Fishers, Backcountry Hunters,
24:09and Anglers, have influenced leaders across the spectrum to reduce those irreversible
24:15effects of climate change.
24:17And while federal action is crucial to combating the problem, state and local officials must
24:22act now to stop climate change.
24:25I've been so lucky to work with small grassroots environmental and conservation organizations,
24:31like Montana Trout Unlimited, Trust for Public Land, the Madison River Foundation, along
24:36with seemingly unlikely business partners like Northwest Energy, to promote local climate
24:42change projects.
24:44One was the O'Dell Creek Restoration, or stream restoration project we did here in the Madison
24:49Valley, which restored a creek, lowered water temperatures by three degrees, and actually
24:58acts like a natural fish hatchery to pump so many fish that are recruited in that little
25:03stream back into the Madison River system.
25:07I've been involved with ranch in-stream water leases, the first of its kind in the country,
25:13where we leave water in the stream, lease it to Trout Unlimited for a dollar a year
25:17to provide cooling flows to the Madison River.
25:21These are huge projects, but they serve more as a model that future projects in the U.S.
25:28and around the world can be modeled after to reduce and combat climate change.
25:33Really, and I'll wrap my thoughts up with all of us who love wild places and wild native
25:38fish and wildlife must get involved today, now, to protect and preserve those special
25:45places we love for all future generations.
25:49It's more than our duty, it's our obligation as sportsmen and as Americans.
25:56Yeah, I agree completely.
25:58Trevor, I'd love to hear how we bring people together.
26:03Our country right now is so divided.
26:05There's folks who don't want to listen to people.
26:08Sportsmen don't want to listen to environmentalists, environmentalists don't want to listen to
26:12sportsmen.
26:13But we need to bring people together if we're going to solve this.
26:15How do we do that?
26:16Well, I mean, I think the first is we have to step back and ask ourselves what our personal
26:21responsibility is on this.
26:24But the spirit of the West is a spirit of independence.
26:26I mean, if anything defines Westerners, especially hunters and anglers, it's a belief that self-reliance
26:36is at the core of all of us.
26:38If a tree falls down on Craig's three-mile driveway, well, Craig's probably going to
26:44go have to chop it off.
26:48We aren't people that were bred to sit around waiting for the government to fix our problems.
26:55So why is there this notion that we don't have the ability or the responsibility to
27:03address this problem that's threatening these sacred places in all of our lives?
27:10You know, and in a certain way, I think that once people stop waiting for their state government
27:16or the federal government to do the right thing and demand it, you know, and the people
27:22themselves begin leading this, we aren't going to address it.
27:27I don't have a whole lot of faith in Washington, D.C. myself.
27:30I've worked there, you know, worked in the White House or worked on the Hill.
27:33I know that place.
27:35It's tough for much to happen there.
27:38And I think it's time that people who love the outdoors take some personal ownership
27:44of this and demand the changes that need to happen.
27:49You know, there's been a little bit of a head-in-the-sand approach, I think, from hunters and anglers
27:55to this, and they're a little too willing to just buy the fossil fuel talking points,
28:02you know, and if they thought critically and looked around them at the natural world and
28:06what's occurring, I think that they would have a different approach.
28:09So I think we have to decide that it's all of our problem, that if we care about our
28:16kids, we care about our grandkids, we care about, you know, elk or brown trout or pheasant
28:21or whatever the thing is that gets us out into the woods, well, then we need to do something
28:25about it and not just decide that somebody else is going to take care of it for us.
28:30Amen.
28:31Absolutely.
28:32Absolutely.
28:33Well, gentlemen, thank you very, very much for your time today.
28:37And folks, this has been Round the Fire.