EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/
Enjoy this blast from the past from the EarthX Archives. #OvercomingOvershoot was one of the first shows we produced and aired back in 2020. EarthX Media has grown a lot since then, but we still like to look back on these insightful conversations and see how far we've come.
The exploration of what can—and what is already—being done to confront the challenges on earth begins. Laurel Hanscom, CEO of The Global Footprint Network, provides information on the planet's limited resources.
About #OvercomingOvershoot:
#OvercomingOvershoot takes a deep look at the myriad symptoms of ecological overshoot by way of thoughtful conversations with experts and visionaries exploring not only what’s going wrong but also what solution pathways are available to overcome overshoot. Moderated by eco-rockstar, Gary Wockner, this show will serve as an essential hub to connect people from around the world on this most pressing concern.
EarthX
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About Us:
At EarthX, we believe our planet is a pretty special place. The people, landscapes, and critters are likely unique to the entire universe, so we consider ourselves lucky to be here. We are committed to protecting the environment by inspiring conservation and sustainability, and our programming along with our range of expert hosts support this mission. We’re glad you’re with us.
EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.
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#EarthDay #Environment #Sustainability #EcoFriendly #Conservation #EarthX
Enjoy this blast from the past from the EarthX Archives. #OvercomingOvershoot was one of the first shows we produced and aired back in 2020. EarthX Media has grown a lot since then, but we still like to look back on these insightful conversations and see how far we've come.
The exploration of what can—and what is already—being done to confront the challenges on earth begins. Laurel Hanscom, CEO of The Global Footprint Network, provides information on the planet's limited resources.
About #OvercomingOvershoot:
#OvercomingOvershoot takes a deep look at the myriad symptoms of ecological overshoot by way of thoughtful conversations with experts and visionaries exploring not only what’s going wrong but also what solution pathways are available to overcome overshoot. Moderated by eco-rockstar, Gary Wockner, this show will serve as an essential hub to connect people from around the world on this most pressing concern.
EarthX
Love Our Planet.
The Official Network of Earth Day.
About Us:
At EarthX, we believe our planet is a pretty special place. The people, landscapes, and critters are likely unique to the entire universe, so we consider ourselves lucky to be here. We are committed to protecting the environment by inspiring conservation and sustainability, and our programming along with our range of expert hosts support this mission. We’re glad you’re with us.
EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.
EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/
Follow Us:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/earthxmedia/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/earthxmedia
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EarthXMedia/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@earthxmedia
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EarthXMedia
How to watch:
United States:
- Spectrum
- AT&T U-verse (1267)
- DIRECTV (267)
- Philo
- FuboTV
- Plex
- Fire TV
#EarthDay #Environment #Sustainability #EcoFriendly #Conservation #EarthX
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TVTranscript
00:00Hi, I'm Gary Wachner. I'm the host of Overcoming Overshoot here on EarthX TV and
00:07Today we are with Laurel Hanscom who is the CEO of the Global Footprint Network
00:13Their website is footprint network org and that website is actually very important because they have a lot of information on there as well
00:21As tools that we're going to talk about and use during our show today
00:25footprint network org
00:27Thanks for being on today, Laura
00:30Thank you so much for having me Gary. I
00:32Thought we'd kind of do three things one
00:35Right at the beginning and want to sort of define the word
00:38Overshoot like what do we mean by overshoot and that's important because your Twitter handle is in the overshoot and this
00:45Show is called overcoming overshoot. So we're in the same business here and from your organization's viewpoint. What does
00:52overshoot mean
00:54overshoot is
00:55The term we use when we're talking about how we're using more than what the planet can renew
01:01So every year we calculate Earth overshoot day
01:05which is the day of the year when we've
01:07Used all the resources that the planet's going to be able to renew over the entire year
01:14Okay, and and when I went on your website, there's a lot of information about overshoot and overshoot day
01:19and so this next talk about
01:22ecological footprint and I want to
01:25just start by and one of the images that
01:28We're gonna show is like it's like a guy he's standing there and his foot sticking out
01:33But his footprint is like a thousand times bigger than his foot and it includes forest
01:39It includes pasture land raised range land. It includes a
01:44farmland it includes industries and cities and streets and roads and cars and water and the ocean and the rivers and it's just kind of a
01:52fascinating
01:55Picture that sort of tells this whole story about what a footprint is. So tell us about ecological footprints
02:01Ecological footprint is a land-based metric. But basically what it is doing is
02:07Encapsulating in a single number how much we are taking from the planet
02:12So everything we eat as you mentioned everything we eat everything we wear everything we use to build
02:17All the land that we use for our cities and our infrastructure
02:21All of that is captured in a single ecological footprint metric
02:25And we use that because it gives us an opportunity to compare different kinds of land uses
02:31So normally you wouldn't compare
02:34cropland to
02:36Streets, right?
02:37But being able to put that into the same metric allows us to add it all up
02:42And and compare it to what the earth can renew
02:44and so a person can have an ecological footprint a
02:49City can have a footprint a country can have a footprint and a state can have a footprint and so
02:55Sort of how is each of those kind of different? How do you?
02:58Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely
03:01So because ecological footprint is in this single metric we can do it. It's scalable, right?
03:07So it's like the same way that you could compare how much a person makes or spends in a year
03:14You can also calculate how much a city makes or spends in a year or an entire country
03:21so the
03:23Unit that we use is called a global hectare and that allows us to calculate from the person to the whole planet
03:30And and those numbers are compatible
03:33So I went on to your website and I did the footprint footprint calculator
03:40And anybody can do that and I would encourage anybody watching it good to go ahead and do that, too
03:46and I went through the
03:48Questions to ask and I was just going to kind of go through them here quickly
03:51Yeah asked is is what you eat and especially how many animal products you consume whether that's
03:58meat or dairy or cheese or eggs and
04:01The next one is about how much what kind of your food you consume if it's packaged and if it comes from a local or
04:08a faraway source
04:10The next one is the kind of housing you live in and then it asks you about your electricity source at your house
04:16so if you know if it comes from
04:19Cold burning power plant or if by chance if it comes from wind or solar
04:23And then how much trash you make every day, which is an interesting question
04:28what kind of car you drive and and how many miles per gallon it gets and then also if you take public transportation and
04:37How much you fly during a year and
04:40So, you know go into those just a little bit and tell us like, you know
04:44Why they would trigger ecological footprint to be sort of bigger or smaller talk about that
04:50Sure, so everyone has an ecological footprint
04:53We consume to live that's how life works. We have to eat we have to get around we have to have shelter
04:59So the way it's measuring is how big that is compared to other things
05:04So if we eat food that comes from very far away
05:09The footprint associated with it is much larger because it had to travel so it also has the embedded carbon footprint within there
05:17If something is highly packaged and that we eat means that there's been more processing involved. Maybe there's plastic
05:24Maybe there's you know extra steps all of that requires energy and additional resources
05:29Similarly in your home
05:31if your house is powered by photovoltaics that are on your roof or you're lucky enough to live in a place where a large proportion of
05:38your
05:39Electricity comes from renewable sources. Your footprint is going to be smaller
05:45But it might also be smaller because your house is better insulated
05:49So being able to to pull those things together and understand the efficiency of our homes
05:54All contributes to the size of our footprint
05:56And the last thing with the transportation how far we go every day or every year
06:00How many flights we take all of that is goes into you know
06:05Our footprint as well. The carbon footprint makes up roughly 60% of the total ecological footprint
06:11So it's a major aspect and it's something that you know climate activists and and scientists have been
06:18Beating their drums about for a long time
06:20But it's definitely something that we can even we can measure at the person level versus
06:25You know the the big we talk all these things and at the large level about talking about
06:30Countries and and international bodies, but we each have a footprint, too
06:35And one of the things I was going to ask and you touched on is
06:38What's the difference between a carbon footprint versus an ecological footprint? So explain that in your own words, too
06:46so
06:47ecological footprint considers all of the different things we can say, right so
06:51We're talking about how much we need in terms of corn or leather or wood
06:58But carbon footprint just refers to the portion of the ecological footprint that's related to fossil fuel
07:04Use so in most cases, it's greenhouse gas
07:07Inventories that measure that and it definitely is an input
07:10We take the carbon footprint and take it another step further and calculate how much space is required
07:16That we have so we we can put that in the and the idea behind that is that we can put it into the same
07:22Unit so we can compare our carbon footprint to our food footprint
07:25To give us the opportunity to really compare what what the earth is providing versus what we're actually taking
07:32Okay, which is what allows us to calculate things like overshoot day
07:36Those those metrics are needed for us to be able to
07:39All right, so now it comes a little bit embarrassing I calculated my footprint and
07:45I'm a little below average for american, but it's a little bit higher than I actually expected it
07:52And I think what triggered it was probably two things. One is the amount of animal products I eat
07:59But as far as the amount of food that I eat, it's a little bit higher than I actually expected
08:04Two things one is the amount of animal products I eat
08:08But especially the amount of flying that I do
08:12my transportation
08:14A footprint was pretty high and um, you know
08:17I'm fortunate enough to be at a stage of life where I do get to travel and get to go places
08:21But that has a big footprint on it
08:23Um, and is is that common for an american citizen, you know in this country, for example, I mean is it?
08:30What generally triggers a high footprint is it big houses small houses coal power
08:36Uh eating a lot of meat, you know flying driving. What's what's sort of the the common, you know trigger in this country
08:44Well in the united states. Yeah carbon footprint is pretty big
08:48um a lot of that has to do with
08:50You know where our energy comes from how we power our homes and then obviously how we get around
08:55um
08:56In years like this when well, I guess there are not years like this, right? This is a pretty unique year
09:02Um, we see that the carbon footprint has dropped quite a bit
09:06Because travel individual travel has has gone down
09:10um
09:11But a big piece of our food footprint is yeah, it's animal products not saying that you can't
09:16Enjoy animal products, but that that is something that the lower you eat on the food chain
09:21So to speak the more you eat like a rabbit the the better off you are in terms of of having a smaller footprint
09:29and that's an you know, obviously these things are all really personal I feel like
09:33It's really common to talk to someone after they've taken the footprint calculator and they're like, oh my gosh
09:38My footprint is so large. I can't believe this
09:41But part of that is the way that you know the way our society is set up
09:45We can't we don't have a ton of control over a lot of the things
09:49um that make our footprint large so
09:52Not everybody can put photovoltaics on the pv on their roof
09:56like if you're renting or you know, if it's too expensive, you can't you can't put on solar but
10:03you know, there are different things that we can all do in our lives to to manage our footprint and make sure that we're
10:09Living aligned with our values and trying to move out of overshoot
10:13So you mentioned something I want to kind of get to here, too
10:17Um
10:17And that's what happened this year which caused sort of overshoot day to move
10:24Uh to be to be different quite a bit by by a couple weeks than it was the last
10:28the last few years and so, um, obviously we had this coronavirus economic lockdown. It was global
10:36and it had a big impact on
10:38Climate emissions and other kinds of ecological footprints around the planet
10:43So tell us a little bit about um, you know a little bit about what overshoot day is hit that again
10:48And then why the economic lockdown related to the virus caused that to change?
10:54So earth overshoot day as I mentioned is the day of the year
10:57When we've used all the resources that the planet will renew over the entire year
11:03Last year in 2019 it fell on july 29th
11:07This year it was on august 22nd, which means it moved back
11:13Just over three weeks almost a month difference
11:16Which is pretty significant never in the charting the data that we've ever looked at has a jump that big happened
11:23Um, and part of what we do through the campaign is talk about how we want to move the date of earth overshoot day
11:30back in the year
11:31but it wasn't like this that we had in mind, right the
11:36Suffering that came with all of that lockdown
11:39The loss of life the loss of jobs the economic turmoil that it has caused
11:44Has been really horrendous. It's not something to be celebrating
11:47so, you know if this had happened in a year where we'd consciously as a society decided to
11:54You know shift the way that we
11:56We consume and and lower our footprint intentionally. That would have been awesome, right? That would have been a really exciting
12:03Uh celebratory kind of thing but because of the way it happened it's been really awful. Um,
12:09So it's it's a sort of bittersweet in that sense
12:12you know, we've seen a lot of the different ways that the the lockdown has um,
12:18shifted sort of
12:19uh the way that we see animals in places that we
12:22Hadn't previously or at least not for a very long time. And so it's kind of you want to be like, okay
12:28Well, maybe this is a good thing
12:29maybe it's exciting, but
12:31If it comes at the cost of such like such a high cost, I mean, that's not something we're trying to accomplish
12:38And so, you know during the lockdown, you know people
12:41Drove quite a bit less they flew quite a bit less
12:45Um, they shopped less
12:48They ate out less and all sorts of things happened and that caused the ecological footprint to decrease
12:55Which moved the overshoot day further in the future so the goal of move the date is to get it
13:01Farther into the year, right? That means uh, we're we're living more sustainably longer
13:07During a year and so that's basically what happened during the lockdown, right? That's exactly right. What we see is
13:14Uh, or what we want to see is that we move the date all the way out to december 31st
13:20And beyond right that's that's the goal of moving the date
13:25so
13:26We we saw that big jump because of the this sort of contraction of the footprint
13:30but it's a very fast contraction and it was done in sort of a
13:33unfortunate way
13:35Now one thing on your website, you know, you have a lot of going on there
13:38One of the things is you can compare different countries. So
13:42what country um
13:43Consumes a lot of resources versus it's like land mass. It's you call it the
13:49Biocapacity versus a country that doesn't consume doesn't even consume the biocapacity it has
13:54On its uh in its boundary. So for example, if I get this, right, you know, the united states
14:00Consumes about five percent of its biocapacity every year whereas brazil
14:06Doesn't consume doesn't even it has excess biocapacity. So it's actually
14:10Below what it consumes. Is that like an accurate way to say it?
14:14So
14:16Sure, I think the easiest way to think about that is to think of this in monetary terms
14:21So biocapacity is like our income
14:24We have a certain amount of biocapacity in each country and we measure this using
14:29We do called what's called a national footprint and biocapacity accounts where we measure the ecological footprint and biocapacity
14:35Of every country in the world and that's based on
14:39lots and lots of un data
14:42Statistics on consumption patterns
14:45So places like brazil that have a very large land mass and lots of bio biocapacity
14:53Are what we call?
14:54Ecological creditors so it means that they have and so again in economic terms like they have more than what they're using
15:02um, but uh places
15:05Like the us and others have are using more
15:09Than than we're actually producing as a country and of course that's possible because of trade right we none of it trade allows us to
15:17Do a lot of things but one of the things that allows us to do is to use more than what our country can can provide
15:24And I also know she can compare states. So for example, I live here in colorado
15:30and our
15:31Ecological footprint was again pretty high. I think it was between like four and five
15:36um, you know, uh of the earth's capacity whereas alaska which has a huge land mass very few people has a
15:44very very low
15:45Ecological footprint and so is that sort of a fair way to say it? And so do you compare states like that?
15:52It's been a long time since we've done a dedicated study to look at the difference between states
15:58but a lot of that is related to population, right so
16:01Uh, the population in alaska is much smaller
16:06Than the size of the state. So it makes sense then on a per person basis
16:12That the their the size of their ecological footprint is going to be tiny compared to their biological by the biocapacity
16:19So I think that's another thing that's uh interesting to check out with the data that we provide is we always provide it in terms of
16:26How much is available total and then also how much is available on a per person basis?
16:32So looking at you know, very populous countries
16:38Like india compared to
16:40Much less populous countries like canada gives us different insights into
16:45What their consumption patterns are like so even though
16:49Canada is an ecological
16:51creditor based on you know our data
16:54Their individual per person average footprint is actually significantly higher than world average
17:01Yeah, that's kind of an intense term ecological predator I hadn't really thought creditor creditor not predator
17:09Creditor I was thinking whoa
17:12That would be scary. I wouldn't I mean the us is an ecological predator
17:16We're out there preying on other countries and consuming their resources and sucking them towards the us is is that is that?
17:24I wish I thought of that term earlier. That's a that's a really catchy one
17:29We'll try i'll talk to my communications
17:36One thing I noticed is that the united states is um, um
17:42footprint
17:43Um has actually gone slightly down since 2005. Did I see that accurately?
17:49Okay. So in 2005 it was up almost to like five
17:52Uh earth's capacity and i'm not saying it quite right, but you'll you'll correct me and now it's down to like four
17:580.9 or 4.7 earth's capacity and that really surprises me. So what's the
18:03What's happening in the united states that we're it appears that we're actually getting slightly
18:08Better, I mean or not as bad. Let's put it that way
18:12so
18:14The five you're referring to is how many earths we would need if everyone on the planet lived like someone who lives in the united states
18:22and so what we found over the last
18:25About decade and a half is that with the the economic crash in 2008, um, we saw
18:32Another contraction of the the footprint in the u.s
18:35um, but when it came back it came back slower than before so
18:40You know, you see the economic recovery happen. Um
18:44Obviously that's you know now that that'll change a little bit again
18:47But as the economic recovery happened the footprint didn't go up with quite as much. Um, uh with with the same
18:55Acceleration which is good news, right? We want we want to be able to
18:59um continue to improve people's lives and give people access to
19:04Health care and and all the goods and services they need
19:07Um without that also coming with additional footprint
19:12And and so you're um, you're you're throwing me softballs here because I want to I want to I want to get to a
19:19A little more controversial topic topic and that's about population growth
19:23You know because since 2005 the united states has added about
19:28Uh, 30 million people us has about 2 million people per year on average
19:32And so it's interesting that the footprint
19:36Has gone down a little bit even though we've added around 30 million people
19:41and of course at the same time over, you know, the the um, the planet adds about
19:46Um, let's see. It's about is it 200?
19:49That's about 80 million people a year I think right it's something there's a 220 million I think yeah
19:54um, and so
19:56Yeah, it's a big number. Um, and so, um
20:00That is also, you know fascinating that that things can actually go down even though we're adding a lot of people
20:06So, how do you how do you look at that?
20:10So I think it's interesting to talk about population because it is such a
20:15controversial subject right we
20:17When we look at the growth of the number of humans on the planet over the last century
20:23um, there's obviously this explosive growth, um in terms of how many people there are and
20:29When we're looking at the data, we see
20:32Our global like humanity's ecological footprint go up at the same time
20:38But it doesn't go up evenly right there are some places where ecological footprint goes up a lot
20:44Um or population goes up a lot faster and ecological footprint goes up a lot faster and they don't it doesn't all match up
20:51so when we talk about ecological footprint and uh,
20:55The growth of population it's important to contextualize it. I think make sure that we're talking about footprint
21:01in the context of where
21:03The growth is happening on either side
21:06Are there any um
21:09Developed countries that are doing much better than others and i've noticed uh, you know, I think um finland
21:16And is for example is is more green on your maps as opposed to bright red like the united states
21:21Uh, the united states is a predator, of course
21:24Um finland doesn't seem to be quite the predator. New zealand's kind of a light green australia's kind of a light green
21:30Some of them don't some of them seem to be doing better than others in terms of developed countries. Is that fair?
21:36Well, we don't like to use the word developed country
21:38We try to stick to more descriptive terms like high income or low income or middle income
21:43um, but there you know, there are places that have been
21:47uh more forward thinking in terms of placing putting into place policy that help make it easier for individuals to
21:55you know to
21:57live sustainably
21:59Our goal as an organization is that everyone lives well within the means of our one planet
22:05um, so we absolutely want to see things like
22:09Human development index metrics go up, right? Like we never want to see
22:14footprint, uh
22:15Decrease at the expense of people's life like well-being
22:19uh, so it's it's interesting to look at countries like that that have
22:23Uh that fall in green or red but can be considered, uh high income or or have high human development index
22:32But that also needs to be contextualized with how much space there is so you think of a place like australia
22:36The population of australia compared to the size of the entire country is like alaska. It's fairly small in comparison
22:43So sometimes that's the bigger factor. Um than particular policy. Um
22:49measures or or
22:51Sort of lifestyle choices made
22:54You know one thing. Um
22:56There's there's a quote by a guy named bill mayer and he's a comedian of course
23:00So but he also says substantive things sometime and he was um on his show one night. He was talking about
23:07How birth rates had gone down?
23:10and he said
23:11Um, we don't need smaller carbon
23:15Footprints. We need less feet
23:18and so, um, you know, I just thinking about
23:21And i'm not trying to put you on the spot and get you to take a hard position on population growth
23:25but i'm thinking about you know, the numbers that you use and the and the
23:28Calculations and if you had less people, um, there'd be more bio capacity for the people that are there
23:35So just let me throw out a um, you know rough estimate
23:38You know, there's 330 million people in the united states and let's say we're using five times
23:44The earth's capacity at our current rate
23:46Well, if there were five times less people in the united states, we'd be kind of even steven
23:51and so population has a um, you know, it's a it's a
23:54It's the denominator or I don't know exactly how your calculations works
23:58But it's the denominator in a lot of the in a lot of the calculations you use
24:02um, and so I wonder if you ever get you know, and you know, and again, i'll also say like
24:07There's only so much earth right and the more of us there are
24:11The smaller and even if it's all perfectly equitable
24:15The more of us there are the smaller piece we're all going to get and then we also got to give you know
24:20At least half of it to all the other critters on the planet
24:23They can live a life. That's uh that they were intended to live too
24:27So, I don't know. How do you sort of grapple with this issue of population in your organization?
24:32well
24:33Because we're a data-centric organization
24:36Talking about population as you said is often just math, right? It's the denominator
24:41We look at the size of the ecological footprint of the entire united states
24:45And then we come up with a purpose an average per person
24:49um
24:50And use that number quite a bit
24:51So we we talk about this and often in those terms of how much is it per person? Um, so
24:59Technically speaking. Yes, if there were fewer people on the planet, um, our total footprint would be
25:07Would be much smaller
25:09but I think bill maher was only half right because it does matter how much we consume and it
25:15Does like it does matter how many people there are on the planet, but it also matters how much we consume
25:19If we want people to live good lives, right?
25:23we could
25:25You know if there were a thanos situation, I don't think anybody would take that, you know
25:30We snap and and cut the world population in half. That's not a that's not a just or equitable solution
25:37Um, and it doesn't put people at the center of what you know of the idea. So I think
25:43Yeah, I mean when we talk about population in terms of of our work
25:48often it is sort of a number but I I think it's really important to keep you know, the
25:54the solutions and like the actual
25:57population change, um thoughts front and center because
26:02Population is a is a slow kind of slow moving thing, right making changes now
26:09Are is going to have a a biggest change?
26:12A generation or two down the line, you know, we're not talking about. Um,
26:18you know solutions that are are going to
26:21drastically cut the population of the planet
26:24um, so the good news is is that
26:27Solutions in terms of population and sustainability are also great for human rights. So
26:34the solutions that we
26:35Try to focus that we focus on and I think are the only solutions are providing, you know
26:40Access to health care and um and and contraception and the ability to make choices
26:47um, it's about
26:48Education for girls at the same rates as boys and making sure that men and boys are part of the population conversation when it comes
26:56to health
26:57Um and and contraception and and family planning and all of that is a win-win, right?
27:02We're it's a win-win because it's good for people and it's good for for families
27:07And it's also a win-win because it's good for the planet and stabilizing
27:11our
27:12the population growth that we've seen
27:14Go up so drastically over the last half century
27:18Yeah, and you let's um kind of shift a little bit too because I heard on another show
27:23You were talking about the difference between sort of wealth and success
27:29And so of course in the united states
27:31um, we measure success in terms of gross domestic product and how much money you make and all those kinds of things and how
27:37Much you consume and how big your house you have how many cars you have how big your tv is all that kind of stuff
27:43um, whereas, you know, um
27:45New zealand looks at a little bit differently. It's more about well-being and happiness
27:50The country of bhutan has this fascinating thing called the happiness index
27:54Um, and so it seems like you could start to get at some of these issues like ecological footprint
28:00by just trying to change mindsets and worldviews about what
28:03Is success and happiness versus what is like wealth and gdp? So how do you guys engage in that kind of debate in your organization?
28:12Well, we're certainly proponents of the idea that
28:15You know living a great life does not require
28:18Uh consumption or or this sort of rampant consumerism
28:23Good lives for all obviously is core to our mission
28:26Um, but you see things like the the happiness index and human development index sort of probably more well known
28:33And we like to look at that in comparison to ecological footprint per person
28:37So if you think of for example sustainable development as a concept that's something that's been
28:43You know over the last 30 or 40 years sustainable development has been sort of this rallying cry
28:47Especially in the last 10 with the sustainable development goals
28:51so if you
28:53can plot countries with ecological footprint, uh per person on one axis and
29:00happiness index or uh, or human development index on the other axis, then you have one side
29:07That's measuring, you know, are we having great lives for all and then the other side is like
29:12Are we doing it within the means of our one planet?
29:15And so you find a few countries that fall into that little box
29:20of
29:21You know having a high
29:23Happiness index or a high human development index and also a small per person footprint
29:29And I think that's what we're talking about trying to you know, that should be the goal
29:33Can we can we have great lives and great quality of life within the means of what the planet can renew?
29:40Yeah, and I noticed on your website. Um
29:42There's a program moving forward in scotland that you're involved in. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
29:49Yeah, absolutely
29:50so the scottish uh environmental protection agency
29:54has
29:55A few years ago adopted this really I think wonderful framework that's based on our our data
30:01Which is called one planet prosperity and essentially their epa is saying
30:06as a framework
30:07The the projects that go forward the policies that go forward are measured against this idea. Is it one planet compatible?
30:16and so the the
30:18The head of the their ceo of the scottish environment agents or protection agency
30:23Uh, terry ahern is doing these really, you know, amazing things shocking
30:29shocking the system but really setting sort of a beacon and and uh, you know a north star for what
30:36Epa's can be doing in terms of really reshaping the discussion around prosperity within the means of our planet
30:44That that's fascinating, you know, I as I mentioned I do have the good fortune to travel
30:49I've been to both scotland and new zealand and both of those countries have a very different vibe than the united states
30:55There's more of an outdoor culture
30:57It's more of an adventurous culture and and you definitely feel just kind of a different vibe there, too
31:01It's sort of part of the the cultural heritage of the countries
31:05You know, we'll kind of end on one note here because I know part of your goal
31:09In trying to end overshoot and what we're trying to do here with overcoming overshoot is to move that date
31:14so, you know talk a little bit about moving the date and
31:18You know how your organization is trying to engage with people
31:22Like are you in schools?
31:23Are you trying to deal with cities countries like just give us a little overview of how you're trying to move the date
31:28Absolutely. So
31:30We work with all sorts of different organizations. Um, you talk about schools
31:35Our ecological footprint calculator tool is used as part of
31:39environmental science curriculum and sustainability course curriculum across the across the country and so
31:46Probably over half of this of the people who come well half of the three million people who calculate their footprint like you did
31:53Um our our students and so they're a big portion of our of who we talk to in our constituents as an organization
32:00But we also work with you know, we work with big companies
32:04We work with schneider electric, which is a big
32:07a big company based out of france and they you know, they're trying to end overshoot by
32:13Retrofitting and all of these efficiency solutions that their company provides and then we work with countries
32:19so we work with
32:21You know the scottish epa, but we also work with countries like slovenia and japan and and try to you know
32:28Calculate their ecological footprint, um and provide additional
32:31details and analysis to help
32:33shape policy
32:34But also to give sort of a headline indicator the way gdp sort of gives us a an out, you know
32:40a high level idea of how well a country is doing from um, like a
32:45Economic perspective where we're able to share ecological footprint, uh data with them as well
32:52And we talk about solutions a lot. We really think that it's important to think
32:56Through the solutions as this isn't just a doom and gloom kind of situation
33:00We think it's really important to to not just focus on what can often sound like sort of scary metrics
33:07But to say these aren't scary metrics. This is the world that we live in. This is a starting point. Um,
33:12How can we take what we have and and shift the conversation? So we talk about solutions in terms of
33:19five different solutions pillars
33:22Pillars is sort of a funny word, but i'm going to go with pillars
33:25Um, and the first is on sort of the income send biocapacity and that's planet. How are we taking care of the planet?
33:32How are we protecting?
33:34Um our you know land for native species as you said eo wilson has
33:39put this big
33:40Uh save half for nature. Um, so there's there's this
33:44Part of that part of the solutions is is taking care of our planet
33:49And then we talk about um
33:51Cities how our cities are built, uh, are they pedestrian friendly or you know, can you get around?
33:57Uh where our energy comes from is it clean energy? Is it dirty energy? Is it inefficient?
34:03Um, and then where our food comes from and how what we eat
34:06um
34:07Did we get it locally? Did we eat lots of meat? Do we eat?
34:12mostly plants
34:13Um, and then the last is uh, you know as we talked about is population
34:18How many of us there are because the more of us there are the less there is less planet there is per person
34:23And so there are solutions
34:25That are you know at every level and a lot of that is systemic and a lot of it is individual
34:29But really it's all of it together is is what we're what we would like to to talk about in those big areas
34:36Yeah, that's great. You know if I was uh, super wealthy
34:40I would try to um give you guys enough money
34:44So that you could force your way into the public conversation so
34:47Every year that when like gross domestic product and economic indicators were reported by the media and by the government
34:54It also reported the ecological footprint. I think that would be a huge goal and a huge educational opportunity
35:00I think that would be amazing
35:01If you know any really really wealthy people who want to help us out with that, uh, we should talk
35:07Okay, I think it would be a great way to to shape the conversation. All right
35:12Thank you for being on the show laurel and I want to remind listeners and watchers that um,
35:17Uh the website footprint network.org. It's really amazing
35:21I've spent a couple hours on it
35:22Just looking at all the maths and all the graphs
35:24And all the data and my degree was in geography like laurel's was too
35:28And so i'm kind of just intrigued by like all those different colors and pictures and graphs and data
35:33And so you can spend a lot of time on the on the website footprint network.org. You can also
35:38Calculate your own ecological footprint
35:41Um, and then you can your friends can do it and you can like footprint shame people which i'm sure you know
35:47Haha, mine's lower than yours that kind of thing and you can you know
35:50You can get on social media and start shaming them about their ecological footprint, which actually happens. You see that kind of thing a lot
35:57Is that something we promote?
35:59No, I know. I know I just I just went off on a tangent there because I do see that happen
36:04Um
36:05Again, laurel hanscom with the global footprint network. Thank you for being on overcoming overshoot
36:11The web your website is footprint network.org and your twitter handle is end overshoot
36:17And you all are watching earth x tv
36:20Thank you so much