US President Donald Trump claimed the Biden administration allocated $21 million to boost voter turnout in India, suggesting it could be a kickback scheme. The Congress cited reports that USAID allocated funds to Bangladesh, not India. The BJP alleged foreign interference, while Congress demanded a white paper on fund usage. The controversy has sparked a political debate on potential foreign meddling in Indian elections.
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00:00Can you imagine all that money going to India?
00:03I wonder what they think when they get it.
00:05Now, it's a kickback scheme, you know, it's not like they get it.
00:08They kick it back to the people that send it, I would say, in many cases.
00:12U.S. President Donald Trump hints at foreign interference in India once again,
00:17claiming the Joe Biden administration allocated $21 million to top race voter turnout.
00:24Trump suggested it could be a kickback scheme.
00:27And $21 million for voter turnout in India.
00:30Why are we caring about India turnout?
00:33We got enough problems.
00:35We want our own turnout, don't we?
00:37Can you imagine all that money going to India?
00:40I wonder what they think when they get it.
00:42Now, it's a kickback scheme, you know, it's not like they get it.
00:45They kick it back to the people that send it, I would say, in many cases.
00:49Many of these cases.
00:51The Congress citing newspaper reports claim that U.S. aid allocated $21 million
00:57for voter turnout to Bangladesh and not India.
01:00The BJP rejected the news report.
01:03And Rahul Gandhi to foreign meddling, flagging his speeches in London last year.
01:22The Congress denied the foreign interference charge,
01:25demanding the Modi government release a white paper on where the funds were used.
01:52And why should this be done?
01:55By hating Modi, they are now hating India.
02:00They are hating the citizens of this country.
02:03They can't defeat Modi with their capabilities,
02:07their popularity that hasn't been saved.
02:12That's why they take support from foreign powers.
02:16They go from Ukraine to all over the world.
02:22Sometimes we hear that they have done something in foreign countries.
02:26They are doing it in many places.
02:28So when you do it in so many places,
02:31when you get $21 million in your country,
02:33it's a slap on your face.
02:35Then they say, no, no, no.
02:36In 2012, when the UPA government was in power,
02:41the result of 2014 that came in your favor, did you win with that money?
03:12to ministries, to even NGOs will have a record back
03:16where the government of the United States of America was in question.
03:20Now, the comment that the president of America made
03:24seemed to suggest that there was foreign meddling in Indian political affairs
03:29by giving out, we don't know where the money ever came in,
03:32of $21 million, which the BJP has interpreted,
03:36the deep state trying to meddle into India's democracy.
03:40On the other hand, the Congress has completely denied any of these charges,
03:43urging the Modi government to come out with a white paper
03:46on these funds, if at all they were received.
03:49Well, I want to cut across right now to my colleague,
03:52Ankit Kumar, who heads our OSINT team,
03:54will give us a larger understanding on what this controversy is all about.
03:58Ankit, you know, USAID is a government agency.
04:02The DOG should have every possible record of what money was sent out where,
04:07if to governments, if to NGOs, whoever, so at all.
04:11Now, the DOG, the information that we have seems to suggest
04:16that Bangladesh actually got the money and not India.
04:19So, did Donald Trump somewhere down the line confuse, you know, Dhaka for Delhi?
04:25Preeti, to understand this entirely complex space better,
04:29let's turn the clock and go back to February 16.
04:32That was the day when DOJ, as you rightly said,
04:35for the first time published the official record of USAID funding money
04:40for India's electoral process.
04:42Now, if you read, or any of our audiences read,
04:45the exact post that is still available on X,
04:48there is a very interesting anomaly there.
04:50For every other country barring India,
04:53the expense head has been covered with an inverted comma, quote.
04:58In India's case, the operating word voter turnout does not have a quote.
05:04The quote actually works as a key term when you search the USAID's database.
05:10So, US government maintains a separate database.
05:14It is still online.
05:15You can search how much money has come through USAID.
05:20Obviously, the money belongs to the US government,
05:23but it has come through USAID to which country under which head.
05:26Now, in case of Bangladesh, if you search the exact head,
05:30you can actually account for a lot of money, right?
05:33You can see the processes match.
05:34The money was sent to fund the activists.
05:37The money was spent for students.
05:40The money was sent under democratic processes,
05:43or at least so-called democratic processes.
05:45In India's case, while the allegation is that the money was spent for voter turnout,
05:51the quotes are missing.
05:53Now, if you run the exact query on the database,
05:56you will not find any specific expenses such as voter turnout.
06:02Now, there are some matching expenses, democratic processes, etc.
06:07Even if you count the entire money, that will not amount to 21 million.
06:12So, somehow, the ambiguity and the complexities started not today.
06:16It started with Dodd's first statement.
06:18Why is that keyword missing from Dodd's statement?
06:21Next day, Trump issues a statement repeating the same claims,
06:26but unfortunately, the database, the US government's official database
06:31does not match the records.
06:33Now, there are two other possibilities that may happen, right?
06:36In US, the fiscal year has different days.
06:39The current database is updated up to September 30.
06:44So, if this amount was supposed to be spent and has not already been spent,
06:50that might cover Trump's claims.
06:52But it is up to the US president or the Dodd's or Elon Musk
06:56to clarify as to why and how that money was spent.
07:01Remember, US president is now admitting that the US government
07:05was somehow interfering into India's elections.
07:08So, the onus is on US administration to give us more details.
07:13So, what we know, Ankit, before I quickly let you go,
07:16is we have no record to suggest that money came into India to the tune of 21 million dollars.
07:24Money that came for, quote unquote, voter turnout.
07:30That is not there.
07:32There are different processes.
07:34Remember, when we talk about elections, there is a large population of Tibetans
07:38who live in India.
07:39They have their parallel government.
07:41You know who funds, you know who aids them?
07:43The US government.
07:44USAID funds them.
07:46And the USAID also, Ankit, gives out money for various other departments as well.
07:52Health, Preeti, is the topmost.
07:55But the problem with the entire Trump claim is that the voter turnout frayed that he has used.
08:02For this particular head, that data is missing.
08:05Alright.
08:06So, it's for the US government to now come up and back what they seem to insinuate, number one.
08:12And number two, if the BJP is making clear that money did in fact come in
08:19and it was used by the Congress to fight an election by the help of the deep state,
08:24then the government also has to come out.
08:26Because right now, what we really have got from the Ministry of External Affairs, viewers,
08:30is only a statement and that has come days after these charges were made,
08:33which is investigations are being carried on.
08:36You know, allegations like this are worrisome.
08:39But there is really no proof.
08:40I want to bring in right now, KC Singh, former Indian diplomat, into this conversation.
08:45Mr. Singh, what do you make, Ambassador Singh, of what we're really witnessing?
08:50Because there's so much jargon involved.
08:52Number one, I want to ask you, USAID is a government agency.
08:56So, there are bound to be records if money has actually come in for voter turnout
09:01to the tune of 21 billion dollars to India.
09:04Absolutely correct.
09:06I think what we're dealing with is the Trumpian period, which is a parallel universe,
09:11which has all kinds of fictionalized accounts and claims.
09:17After all, he is a president who has not even conceded that he lost the last election.
09:22He's a person who thinks it's Ukraine that attacked Russia.
09:26So, for him, reality is as he shapes it, as he articulates it.
09:31Therefore, his claims, I think the danger is for any government,
09:36and particularly for the Indian government,
09:38that if you go by his claims, and then you start attacking people within the country
09:43or create a controversy, you may end up with egg on your faces.
09:47So, it's always, you should take whatever Trump is saying,
09:51with a degree of caution, with a great degree of caution.
09:55And let the issue settle down, because he will himself contradict him.
09:59Or even if he is contradicted, he doesn't care.
10:03You know, he will invent a new reality.
10:05And we are seeing this happening on a daily basis as his rankings in America, his popularity is tanking.
10:11It's never happened that in the first month and a half of a presidency,
10:15your popularity tanks below 50%.
10:18Because he was elected not for this.
10:21He was elected really for managing the economy and managing the immigration thing.
10:26He's done, he's acted on immigration.
10:28But economy, I think you're not able to bring the prices down.
10:31Prices, if anything, have gone up.
10:33And yet he's saying on April 1, he's going to start his reciprocal taxes.
10:37Now, if you take the reciprocal tariffs, that is the other danger.
10:41Prime Minister came out of the meeting and we were briefed and said everything is hunky-dory.
10:46And we are going to have a trade agreement, first phase of trade agreement by October.
10:50Now, common sense indicated that if you would reach a basic agreement to reach part of the agreement,
10:57then the tariffs will be held back.
11:00There's no point having the tariffs come in on 1st of April.
11:03Now, again, he's gone on record day before yesterday saying, but I never said that.
11:08I said the tariffs are on.
11:10So therefore, dealing with Trump, I think governments have to be careful.
11:14You do not start domestic controversies.
11:17You do not use it for political one-upmanship.
11:22Because he is capable of, A, distorting the truth, inventing facts, misstating facts.
11:29He said America has given much more to Ukraine than anybody else.
11:33Actually, Europeans are given more aid than Americans.
11:35So, you know, all his facts and figures we've seen over the last four years,
11:39all his facts and figures are as he wants to shape them.
11:43I want to ask you one quick question before I let you go,
11:45because what really has happened in turn is it's lit a political fire back home in India.
11:49Now, we did see, you know, a studied silence coming in from the Ministry of External Affairs.
11:53And now they've come out with a statement that what's happening is worrisome and they are investigating as we speak.
11:58Is when USAID gives out or doles out money, Ambassador Singh, it's usually government to government.
12:05Even if NGOs are given the money, then the government really is notified.
12:09The RBI would know if such huge sums of money is coming and filtering into India.
12:13So even at our end, we should be able to verify and record if the money ever came in.
12:18Not only that, there are hundreds of NGOs whose permission has been withdrawn by the government.
12:24So the government has been very closely monitoring.
12:27And if you look at the U.S. budget, the U.S. budget is $6 trillion.
12:32Out of $6 trillion, only $41 billion go to USAID, which is 0.014%.
12:40So what is the money that Trump is trying to save?
12:43And then out of that, $21 million is a minuscule sum out of that amount.
12:48Now, you know, to make a point as if he's going to make America very rich by cancelling USAID,
12:55the damage he has done is USAID may well be no country uses this money abroad as charity.
13:01Every country does it. I'm sure we do it. Everybody does it.
13:04There's always some string attached depending on what it is.
13:07But in any case, there is a lot of positive things this was doing, especially in Africa, sub-Saharan Africa,
13:14handling disease, handling extremely poor people.
13:18In the process, he's harmed U.S.'s outreach and vacated the space for China, vacated the space for other countries.
13:27And therefore, it is a net net loss for America. So I don't know.
13:30But then this is Trump. I don't think he weighs his loss and gain differently.
13:34Right. Appreciate you joining us, Ambassador Singh. Thank you there.
13:37I want to quickly bring in our other guests into this conversation.
13:40Rajiv Dogra, a former Indian diplomat. Ashok Sajjanhar, former Indian diplomat.
13:44Charu Pragya, National Spokesperson, BJP. Mahima Singh, National Spokesperson, Congress.
13:49I just want to also translate when it comes down to 21 million dollars coming into destabilize the Indian democracy.
13:55It's actually just a drop in the bucket when you look at it and interpret it.
14:00It's 180 crores and there should be records. And if there are records, then they need to be made public now.
14:07I want to bring in Rajiv Dogra for a quick comment and then cut across to Charu Pragya as well.
14:13Rajiv Dogra, what do you make of this entire controversy? Because U.S. aid money, the politics aside, what's the protocol?
14:20No, they're bound to be records on either side, be it America, because it's a government agency or be it India.
14:26Even if it's come through a funnel through an NGO, a sum like this will be recorded with the RBI and the government.
14:33Well, you said it absolutely correctly, that yes, there has to be a record.
14:38It can't come in through Hawala. U.S. aid money is actually sanctioned by the Foreign Ministry of America, which is the State Department.
14:48And it obviously, a sum like 21 million dollars is no small peanuts.
14:55It is a significant sum, especially when you're giving it to another country for whatever purposes,
15:02which, as is being alleged, are not quite transparent purposes.
15:08So it must have the sanction at the ministerial level. Without that, it cannot happen.
15:14Let me also give you my personal experience of how countries do interfere in other countries' affairs.
15:21I was in London in the 90s, and I did confront both Amnesty International and BBC when they tried to influence our elections in Kashmir.
15:32And I was the first one who made BBC withdraw its journalist overnight.
15:37I was the first one to whom Amnesty International apologized for the wrongs they were doing.
15:44So it is not beyond belief that America was trying to interfere and influence our election process.
15:55Whether the money was transferred to A or B or C is not at issue.
16:01The fact is the president of a country has said, yes, money was given.
16:06So do we disbelieve him? Do we need any further proof?
16:11In my opinion, we don't. The point that we in India have to investigate is, where did that money go?
16:20Fair point, sir. Fair point. Ashok Sajjana, do you concur with Rajiv Dogra?
16:25Well, yes, by and large, Preeti, but let me just add here that there are many NGOs who receive funds from abroad,
16:37and they are given for a particular purpose. But how those funds are utilized, that can be a big question mark, that is a moot point.
16:47And I think that is one of the reasons why the Indian government, under Prime Minister Modi,
16:53they have cancelled the FCRA licenses of hundreds and thousands of such NGOs.
16:59You know, I'll draw your attention to one particular instance which became very well known,
17:04which was, you know, during Dr. Manmohan Singh's time, there was the, you know, the Kudankulam Power Project,
17:11nuclear power project, and there were huge demonstrations by fishermen who said, you know,
17:17that their environment and their livelihood, etc., is going to be destroyed.
17:21And it came out very clearly that there were some NGOs from Sweden and, you know, from the Nordic countries,
17:30who were funding these projects, and many of them, you know, were funding some of the Christian organizations
17:36who were giving money for these demonstrations. So, these NGOs are, you know, we have to face it, you know,
17:43even what is called the deep state, the CIA, they have done away with the presidents in, for instance, in Chile.
17:50Salvador Allende, you know, meaning he was assassinated because he did not meet with the requirements of the US government.
17:59We've seen Mr. Soros who says that I'm going to spend $1 billion to unseat Mr. Modi.
18:08So, you know, as far as the US aid is concerned, that is what we are discussing, you know, they will be doing,
18:14they might be doing good work in health, in education, in training, skill development, but there could be certain provisions.
18:23The point I want to make, Preeti, is that US aid will not be the only one.
18:29There would be whole plethora of many other NGOs who would also be engaged in similar activity, in similar program.
18:39All right, I just want to bring in Charu Pragya and Mahima Singh into this conversation because the matters become exceedingly political.
18:48Charu Pragya, there's one thing I think we've, you know, all discussed, and one, there's one commonality which has emerged,
18:56that US aid is a government organization. If money to the tune of $21 million, which is 180 crore rupees,
19:04is filtered into India, then there has to be a record. Even if it has come to a government agency, there is a record.
19:11It cannot be done without the RBI knowing. Even if it is funneled into an NGO in India, even then, there needs to be a record.
19:19The fact is, right now, all we are indulging in is political rhetoric. The government of the day should come out with proof.
19:27The MEA is saying they're investigating. By now, we should have had the proof.
19:30If you're charging, you know, the Congress of actually getting the money and trying to destabilize the government,
19:36it should be easy to corroborate that with proof and records.
19:42Absolutely, Preeti, and don't worry about that. The government will find a record of everything.
19:49Now, let me put something straight for the record, and India Today Group, and in fact, Rajdeep Sardesai has tweeted this.
19:57Let me give a clarification. If you read the official tweet put out by the Department of Government Efficiency,
20:04United States of America, it says that this funding has been stopped.
20:08So the $21 million that everybody is continuously discussing was the funding which has been flagged, by the way.
20:14So it never came in, you're saying.
20:15This is not the funding which has already come in.
20:16So you're saying it never came in.
20:18Read the tweet. Let me finish, Preeti, and I would appreciate you not interrupting me on this,
20:22because the way narratives are being built up, that is the problem.
20:26So I would urge you and all the viewers to simply read that tweet.
20:30Read the tweet, which clearly says that this is the money which is being cancelled.
20:37Now, that being said, let me draw a comparison between the money which has come into India during the UPA regime and last 10 years of NDA regime.
20:46Can I ask you, before you get into that, Saru Pragya, will you allow me a rebuttal?
20:49I'm just asking, and you can continue.
20:51Preeti, can I finish, please?
20:52Ma'am, you can continue if only, just allow me a rebuttal, because it's from the point that you made.
20:56So what you're saying, before you move on, what you're saying is that the money was cancelled and the $21 million never came into India.
21:03There was a plan of sending the money, but it was never received. It was cancelled, correct?
21:09So this is exactly what the DOJ tweet says on X. If you open that exact message, that is what it says.
21:18And it also talks about funding to various other countries under various other headers.
21:23In India, it was apparently for voter turnout, which is ironic because India has a higher voter turnout than the United States of America,
21:30which is also ironic because expenditure in the Indian general election was higher than the amount of money spent in the US election.
21:37But while I have said this, understand this, during the UPA regime, the Sarkar got $204 million USD.
21:44NDA in the last 10 years got $1.5 million USD.
21:48Draw a comparison between that, $204 to UPA and $1.5 to NDA.
21:54So why is it that UPA continued to get that massive amount of funding? That is foreign interference, which has been done during the UPA time.
22:01Now, comparison number two. In comparison number two, see the amount of money which was coming to NGOs during UPA.
22:09It was far lesser. In the NDA regime, the amount of money which had been given to NGOs is $2,579 million USD, which comes to more than 23,000 crore rupees.
22:2123,000 crore rupees and this money has come into India. Now you will say, why is there no record of this money?
22:27You'll also remember that the government has continuously been flagging and cancelling FCRA licenses of many suspect NGOs, which were involved in underhanded activities.
22:38And there's been a controversy about that. Lots of NGOs have spoken out. But this was for the very same reason.
22:45I'll give you an example. Georgetown, all of these people got their FCRA fundings cancelled.
22:51Now, corroborate this amount of money coming into India with political activity in India.
22:56Suddenly, you will see a spike to money coming into India during the farmers protest.
23:00During Bharat Jodo Yatra, I also understand Trump has now made two statements about this funding.
23:09The first statement he said it was for a regime change. He very clearly talked about a regime change.
23:14What is the regime? Modi Sarkar. What will it change mean? So-called India Alliance.
23:19All right. I want to bring in Charu Pragya. Allow me to bring in Mahima Singh into this conversation.
23:24So two points that Charu Pragya has made. Point number one, Charu Pragyan, correct me if I'm wrong.
23:28You've clarified that the $21 million never really came into India. It was cancelled. Number one.
23:34So that is off the table now. And you're talking about the entire term of the UPA versus the entire term of the NDA.
23:40The money that U.S. aid gave to both the governments is the figures you're quoting. Correct. Correct me if I'm wrong.
23:47Yeah. Right. That is it. OK. So Mahima Singh, that $21 million never came.
23:52It was cancelled. But the intention was to destabilize the Modi government.
23:56Yet, if you go back into the UPA years. Do not forget the $2,579 million USD which has come to NGOs.
24:05Which you're saying has been. One second. But one minute, ma'am, I'm talking about I'm separating the two.
24:10No, I made you go through with what you said. All right. So.
24:15But if you look at the two regimes, UPA or NDA, Mahima Singh, you've got more money.
24:20And of course, Charu Pragya also claims there's been a lot of money that has been funneled through NGOs.
24:27Jai Hind. Preeti, I was listening very carefully to the BJP spokesperson.
24:32Now, you see, the question is that Mr. Donald Trump, who is Prime Minister Modi's close friend,
24:38as stated by the prime minister and many BJP functionaries. So Mr. Modi's close friend, Mr.
24:45Trump makes a faux pas and we claim deliberately so when he names India instead of Bangladesh,
24:52when he brings up this issue of 21 million US dollars.
24:57Now, we are demanding the Indian National Congress is demanding white paper on that,
25:02while the BJP goes on to state it as deep state, goes on to demonize such a collaboration with,
25:08as you have rightly said, with a government entity that is USAID.
25:12Now, let me take you a little back in the history, Preeti.
25:15You've got to understand and the viewers have got to understand that this very foundation USAID,
25:21and now it's all over the Internet, that of the who of the BJP, their former ministers and current ministers,
25:28ranging from Smriti Rani to S Jai Shankar to Piyush Goyal and their schemes from demonetization to Swachh Bharat,
25:37to zero carbon emission objective till 2030, to Samriddha initiative.
25:43All of these have a USAID footprint on them and it doesn't, you know, this is not where it began.
25:50It began in 60s and 70s when this RSS and Jansang ecosystem was being funded by the very same organization.
26:00Let me give you a small instance.
26:03Ma'am, I'll give you equal time. Allow her to finish. You have 30 seconds, Mahima Singh.
26:06Then I'll go to Charu Pragya and come back to you.
26:08I'll give you a couple of nuances and then the BJP spokesperson can happily go on a lie-mongering as she's already been doing.
26:161993, when Mr. Narendra Modi was not even a chief minister of Gujarat, when he was a normal RSS worker.
26:23We want to ask why was he visiting the United States and holding meeting with the American Council of Young Politicians,
26:30political leaders, which was practically funded by the USAID.
26:33We also want to question why during COVID-19, Mr. S.J. Shankar was seeking help.
26:41And that was to the tune of, you know, let me just tell you, 41 million...
26:46Can I come in now?
26:47Ma'am, allow her to finish. I'll come in.
26:49You're making your counterclaims. You know, I don't have the time to come in for any rebuttals,
26:53but I'll give Charu Pragya one minute. Go ahead, Charu Pragya, and I'll come back to Mahima Singh.
26:56Ma'am, I'll come back to you. Handcuff. Charu Pragya, go ahead.
26:59So this is the tweet that I was trying to show you, Preeti. Now, I don't know if this is visible.
27:05Okay, I'm going to read it out to you.
27:07It says US taxpayer dollars were going to be spent on the following items, all of which have been cancelled.
27:14I will read from the end of the tweet now.
27:16It says that there was money for India, 21 million for voter turnout in India.
27:22And the next line reads, 29 million to strengthen political landscape in Bangladesh.
27:27Today, in fact, Trump has said, what exactly is the political landscape?
27:30So these are two different statements, and both of it is true, not as claimed by various reports which are spreading misinformation.
27:37Now, second thing, second thing, and this is very important.
27:39Rahul Gandhi has been begging for foreign interference.
27:42He goes to London and he says, Europe, what are you doing? America, what are you doing?
27:46Come and interfere in Indian democracy. Can you not see what is happening around us?
27:50Also, he very clearly says that he's not fighting against the BJP RSS.
27:54He's fighting against the state of India itself.
27:57All right. So that's your inference. All right.
28:00Okay, that is the inference that has been made by the BJP.
28:03But Charu Pragya, so once again, we are sticking to the fact that 21 million dollars, which has been debated on, was cancelled.
28:10Right. Mahima Singh, please answer, retorts to Charu Pragya on the claims that she has made on the funneling of money through NGOs,
28:18which is practically trying to aid you to destabilize the Indian government.
28:23Rahul Gandhi Foundation, Global Knowledge Initiative.
28:25Ma'am, allow her, allow her. I have only one minute, ma'am. Let's play fair.
28:29Go ahead, Mahima Singh, go ahead.
28:31Let me take you through this funneling of money.
28:34Chronologically, Preeti, you'll have to allow me an uninterrupted time.
28:391966, John D. Smith, an American spy, had stated that CIA used RSS as a puppet to overthrow Congress government of Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru.
28:52He wrote the book and he clapped.
28:54Ma'am, please don't do this.
28:56Mahima Singh, you have 30 seconds. Make your point. Mahima Singh, 30 seconds.
29:00...aspiration of the BJP. 1971, in a similar fashion, Indira Gandhi's, there were conspiracies to destabilize Indira Gandhi's government.
29:09And then 2014, Preeti, before 2014, you would remember, the whole India...
29:14You're the same person you're quoting.
29:16...and as a result...
29:18You know, the next time I'm going to, we're going to try and start putting down faders because you've got to, you know, allow the same courtesy that you have extended.
29:24I've run out of time. You've heard all sides. You've heard the experts as well.
29:28We wish we had more time, but we don't quite. We leave it for you to decide on what really went down.