Deborah Rutter served as president of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts for a decade. This month, she was fired. President Trump had replaced many board members with his own supporters. Then, on Wednesday, the new board elected Trump as the center's new chair. Rutter spoke to NPR in her first interview since her dismissal.
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Producers: Ashley Brown, Elena Burnett, Mallory Yu, Nickolai Hammar, Courtney Theophin, John Poole
• Read or listen to: Former Kennedy Center president speaks out in first interview since her firing at https://www.npr.org/2025/02/14/nx-s1-5296904/former-kennedy-center-president-speaks-out-in-first-interview-since-her-firing
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Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Producers: Ashley Brown, Elena Burnett, Mallory Yu, Nickolai Hammar, Courtney Theophin, John Poole
• Read or listen to: Former Kennedy Center president speaks out in first interview since her firing at https://www.npr.org/2025/02/14/nx-s1-5296904/former-kennedy-center-president-speaks-out-in-first-interview-since-her-firing
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00:00For a decade, Deborah Rutter served as president of the Kennedy Center.
00:08This week, she was fired from that position.
00:11Donald Trump had replaced many board members with his own supporters, and on Wednesday,
00:16the new board appointed Trump Kennedy Center chairman.
00:20So we took over the Kennedy Center.
00:21We didn't like what they were showing and various other things.
00:25This is what he told reporters Monday night.
00:28I'm going to be chairman of it, and we're going to make sure that it's good and it's
00:31not going to be woke.
00:32He also told reporters he had never been to a show at the Kennedy Center because, quote,
00:37there was nothing I wanted to see.
00:40Deborah Rutter is in our studios now to talk about the abrupt end to her tenure.
00:45Welcome.
00:46Thank you so much.
00:47How abrupt was it?
00:48How did you find out all this was afoot?
00:51I was actually in the basement of the Kennedy Center with my executive assistant, and I
00:55got a phone call from a member of the board.
00:59And what was the phone call?
01:00What did they tell you?
01:01What went through your mind?
01:02It was very short.
01:03It was very short and direct.
01:06It was from somebody I'd worked with for many, many years.
01:10Did you have any idea this was coming?
01:12Well, I wasn't surprised.
01:15There had been communication saying that an interim executive director would be coming
01:20in to meet with me and to work alongside me.
01:26I read between the lines a little bit.
01:30After you got the news, you said you got a phone call.
01:33What did you tell your staff?
01:36How did you communicate all this to them?
01:40I knew that something was happening because we had called a board meeting for Wednesday
01:46afternoon.
01:48I have always been a big believer that you share everything that you possibly can with
01:53your staff.
01:54You communicate with them quickly and transparently.
01:58We had called a staff meeting in the reach in Studio K for that afternoon.
02:06When I got the phone call, I waited a little bit and then walked over to Studio K and walked
02:12in the door and found it filled, absolutely jam-packed with my colleagues.
02:20I gave them a little bit of news.
02:22They jumped up and they were being very enthusiastic.
02:26I pride myself on being a good leader and knowing my people.
02:32It was hard to see them all there, I will say.
02:35What did you say?
02:36What were your words?
02:39I started out just by saying, I'm going to be short and I hope to keep this private amongst
02:44us because that's what this is.
02:50In the little bit before I walked in the room, I had jotted down some notes, in fact.
02:54I said, forgive me, I'm going to tell a story that some of you have heard before.
03:00My parents gave me the opportunity to play the piano when I was a little kid.
03:05In the third grade, my public school teacher opened a cabinet door and said, what instrument
03:12will you play?
03:14Not would you like to play, will you play?
03:17This was to the entire class.
03:19I chose the violin.
03:21I often think of that day as being the pivotal moment in my life because I have made all
03:28the important decisions around music and the arts.
03:32I mean that, what I did in my free time, et cetera.
03:38I have spent all of my professional career, all these 47 years, really focused on uplifting
03:47the artist and bringing music to as many people as possible.
03:53The last 10 years, I have had the great privilege to work with this extraordinary group of people.
04:00I wish them the best and I tried not to cry too much.
04:04I did close with one last thing, which was really important to me, which is that we wear
04:10a lanyard for our badge to get into the building.
04:14When we celebrated the 100th anniversary of JFK's birth, we worked with Gene Kennedy Smith,
04:21his sister who was still alive at the time, to really talk about what he stood for and
04:26what was important to him.
04:29What I said to the staff was, let's remember these ideals that were created with the Kennedy
04:35family, courage, justice, freedom, service, and gratitude.
04:44Will you go back?
04:46To the Kennedy Center?
04:47To a performance?
04:48I think I have two that I want to go to next week.
04:51It's hard to break a really, really ingrained habit.
04:56The Kennedy Center is prestigious.
05:00It's very well known.
05:03It is also one institution inside the Beltway in Washington, D.C.
05:07Why should the rest of the country, the rest of the world care about who's in charge?
05:13The Kennedy Center is absolutely the local performing arts center for the people who
05:18live in the region and who visit.
05:21It is, by congressional mandate, the national cultural center.
05:27We have a mandate from 1958 that calls for it to be the national performing arts center
05:33and the national advocate for arts education.
05:37In 1964, they added the Living Memorial to John F. Kennedy.
05:43This is more than just the local performing arts center.
05:48It represents America to the world, and it invites the world to our nation's capital
05:54to be a showcase for all of the arts.
05:59To your knowledge, can President Trump do this?
06:02Is there any law, any statute that would prevent him from ousting the board, ousting you?
06:08The statute establishes that a 36-member board and a 21-member ex officio board guide
06:18the operations of the Kennedy Center and those three peers of our mission.
06:27Those 36 are appointed by the President of the United States to serve for a six-year
06:32term.
06:33The statute is silent on whether or not the President can remove them.
06:38It is clear, absolutely clear in our bylaws, that the board elects the chairman of the
06:45board.
06:46It is unprecedented for the Kennedy Center to have the President of the United States
06:51as a member of the board.
06:53It is, therefore, unprecedented that the board would elect that individual to be chair of
06:58the board.
06:59The board- Unprecedented, not necessarily illegal or-
07:03I can't speak to that, but that is what the statute and our bylaws call for.
07:11Just to cut to the chase, it's been, what, two days since you were ousted.
07:15How are you thinking about things?
07:18I'm really, really, really sad about what happens to our artists, what happens on our
07:25stages and our staff who support them.
07:29The Kennedy Center is meant to be a beacon for the arts in all of America, across the
07:38country, and we have worked so hard and accomplished so much over this last decade to really broaden
07:46the programming, to invite all manner of arts and artists to our stages, and we've expanded
07:54our audience as a result.
07:56I pray that that can be sustained, but that's my biggest concern.
08:03Yeah, you used the word sad just now.
08:06Why sad?
08:07What is it that is giving you pause?
08:11People who choose to make their career in the arts do so because they care so deeply
08:19about what it represents.
08:22Artists are holding a mirror up to the society.
08:25They tell the stories of who we are, and those of us who might have at one point aspired
08:31to be an artist and discovered that perhaps better backstage than onstage care deeply
08:36about it.
08:37The people who work to support and uplift the work of the artists are amongst the most
08:44talented, skilled, top of the field anywhere in the world, not just in the region, not
08:51just in our country, anywhere in the world, and they have dedicated their lives to it.
08:56They have sacrificed lots.
08:58When you have really smart people, they often want to go into another business that might
09:02make them more money or more prestige, whatever that might be.
09:05These are people who are so dedicated to the mission and to really the desire to tell the
09:12stories of who we are as Americans.
09:15So this is mission-driven work, and when you are deeply committed to the mission, that's
09:19where you have these emotions.
09:21Yeah.
09:22And again, what is giving you pause or giving you concern that they couldn't continue to
09:28be committed to the mission?
09:30Well, I think these are really truly unprecedented times, not just here in our city, certainly
09:37in our city here in Washington, D.C., but across the country.
09:40And the challenges that are occurring across so many divisions give us all pause.
09:49What does it mean for freedom of expression, for the experimentation of new ideas?
09:57That is what an artist does, and I often talk about this with people who really want to
10:02understand what it drives an artist to be who they are.
10:06Artists are, at their soul, communicators.
10:10They are storytellers.
10:11No matter what their genre is, whether it's visual, dancing, singing, acting, comedy,
10:17whatever that is, they are storytellers, and they need the freedom to be able to tell
10:22those stories.
10:24And without that freedom, they will go somewhere else.
10:27But the National Cultural Center should be where they feel the safest and at home.
10:34Renee Fleming, the famous soprano, has announced she is stepping down as artistic advisor.
10:41Yesterday, I saw the actor and director, Issa Rae, says she is canceling what was supposed
10:46to be a sold-out show at the Kennedy Center next month.
10:49What is your advice to artists going forward?
10:52Should they come to the Kennedy Center?
10:53Should they perform?
10:56If they have the invitation and they know that the environment is safe for them to express
11:02their ideas and their art, absolutely.
11:05Our National Cultural Center needs and deserves to be the platform for artists of all sorts.
11:14But they have to feel welcome and safe.
11:17That prompts me to ask about a comment that President Trump made.
11:21As you know, he criticized the Kennedy Center for being woke.
11:25He has also said, and I'm quoting, no more drag shows or other anti-American propaganda.
11:31Only the best.
11:34Deborah Rutter, how do you understand those words?
11:35How do you react?
11:38I have dedicated my life, my professional life, to supporting artists and providing
11:46opportunities for audiences.
11:49Forty-seven years in May, I will have been working full-time in doing that.
11:55I am a professional arts attendee.
12:01I am a believer in the work of the artist.
12:06I am not a propagandist.
12:09I am not a politician.
12:11Art speaks for itself.
12:13Art sometimes doesn't make you feel comfortable, but it is telling the story of who we are.
12:18And all artists, as all Americans, have the freedom of expression.
12:26And it is really important for all artists to be able to tell those stories.
12:31I will tell you that we have many, many more people coming to performances today because
12:37they see themselves welcome at the Kennedy Center.
12:41And that is my concern.
12:44How will we be able to sustain what we've done to really throw open the doors and make
12:49sure that the Kennedy Center is not just welcoming everybody, but seeing themselves and hearing
12:57their stories on our stages?
13:00Oh, I used our.
13:02I guess it is still our stage.
13:04The Kennedy Center is my cultural center as well.
13:07That's a...
13:12I hear you choosing your words very carefully.
13:16Is there anything else before I let you go that you would like Americans to know or understand
13:22about the situation at the Kennedy Center and what it will mean for the arts in America?
13:30Art is all around us.
13:32Art is a way to unify us and should not be dividing us.
13:38We have to pay attention to our artists, all of them.
13:41They all have different points of view.
13:43And that's a great thing.
13:45That is a part of who we are as Americans.
13:49And we must uplift them, not limit them.
13:53Deborah Reuter was president of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts for
14:00a decade until she was ousted this week.