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00:00Well, we can speak now to former General Delegate of the Palestinian Authority in France, Hind
00:04Khoury.
00:05Thanks so much for joining us.
00:07Firstly, can I ask, simply by asking you for your reaction to this alarming statement from
00:12Donald Trump?
00:13Well, we are certainly living a very dramatic moment, not only for the Palestinians, I think,
00:20but for the whole Middle East.
00:22And it probably is similar to the 1948 period, because it seems the main question here concerning
00:29how to achieve peace for the region is the expulsion of Palestinians and the liquidation
00:35of the Palestinian cause.
00:39But we are a bit hopeful, I would have to say, in spite of all the disasters, the catastrophe
00:46that we lived through for the Palestinian people in Gaza, but even now starting in the
00:50West Bank.
00:51Our hope is that somehow international diplomacy these days is more aware of the cost to the
00:59stability of the region if the Palestinian cause is liquidated and Palestinians don't
01:04get their rights.
01:05I think Arab and Muslim diplomacy is much more aware of the dangers these days.
01:12Myself and many other, I'm sure, Palestinians and Arabs and people who want to see real
01:18peace in the region are gratified by the position of Saudi Arabia that will be supported by
01:26the Arab and the Muslim countries to stand very firm on the fact that any future for
01:34the region should include the right of the Palestinians to have their own state according
01:39to international law.
01:40I think what Trump did in his declaration and meeting with Netanyahu is basically putting
01:48up his highest bid.
01:49He's a dealmaker.
01:50That's the highest bid.
01:51And there will be now negotiations to try to reach a final solution for the situation
01:58in the region.
01:59Hopefully, the Arab and Saudis will weigh in to create a more, not only peaceful region,
02:08but provide some rights for the Palestinians or their rights for the Palestinians.
02:13Indeed, Saudi Arabia even taking time out, it was 4 a.m. local time when they stepped
02:16in to give their reaction.
02:18Can you envisage Palestinian people in Gaza being forced to leave?
02:25I think some of the expulsion is already happening because there will be like 100,000 people
02:32who are injured, who will be cleared away from Gaza for treatment.
02:36With every one of these three people, three people can accompany them.
02:41That's about half a million people already.
02:43But I don't think that fully the plan will be achieved.
02:47The Palestinians have paid a very, very high price to stay on their land throughout their
02:51history, the recent history of the last 50 or even 70 years.
02:56And now many, many of them will stay.
02:58The price was much, much too high.
03:00And there has to be an understanding after so much pain and suffering, the Palestinians
03:05will not be ready to give up.
03:06I think that that should be for sure.
03:08That's how people who suffer react.
03:10They will hold on to the right because they have nothing to lose.
03:14And when we were speaking there about Saudi Arabia's support in the Middle East, who do
03:19you think, and even beyond actually the Middle East, who do you think is stepping up to support
03:23the Palestinians?
03:24Or do you think there's a lot of countries that focus more on cosying up, if you like,
03:28to the United States?
03:29There will be a lot of cosying up to the United States.
03:33I think the strongman here is President Trump.
03:37He has a very, very strong position to play, a very important role.
03:40He's interested in real peace and stability in the region.
03:44The U.S. needs to look elsewhere and to solve the many problems, as you see that Trump has
03:50already opened many, many fronts at the international level.
03:54So he needs to get this done and done well.
03:57It will be a period of bargaining, of trying to wheel and deal to reach a solution.
04:04And I think President Trump would have to accommodate the views and the needs, actually,
04:10of Saudis and the Gulf countries and the Arab countries and the Muslim world to provide
04:17a peace that will be lasting.
04:19So while this is my two cents, maybe I'm a bit too optimistic, because if the Palestinian
04:26cause is completely liquidated, it will only be instability in the region.
04:32Israel does not, totally is in line with the U.S. policy, because Israel wants to have
04:36war to reach stability, certainly war with Iran, and more wars, let me say.
04:41I think the U.S. cannot afford more wars, and they have a different approach.
04:46So that's where, hopefully, some kind of agreement will be reached.
04:50But in my view, the region, you know, the future would be more about the regional stability,
04:57regional solution, and how Israel and the Palestinians can be integrated, this future
05:03that is more promising and more stable for all the peoples of the region.
05:08And in the more short term, Ms. Koudry, how do you feel about this second phase of the
05:13ceasefire in Gaza?
05:15Do you also feel hopeful that that will, a deal will be reached and that a ceasefire
05:19continue?
05:20Yeah.
05:21My feeling that Mr. Trump, President Trump, is keen to have the ceasefire agreement hold.
05:30So it will hold.
05:31I think it will hold.
05:33Israel will do its best to disrupt.
05:35It's a question of, again, balance of power.
05:37Netanyahu did manage against many, many odds to hold on to power and manage Israel's foreign
05:43policy, which is a warmongering policy since the 7th of October.
05:50He may succeed again.
05:52He may succeed to trap, again, President Trump as he's trapped President Biden in not trying
05:59to present a post-ceasefire view, the day after view for Gaza, and how it's going to
06:06be governed, how it's going to be reconstructed.
06:08He could get everybody stuck in that catch-22, unfortunately.
06:12Let's hope the world this time will be more aware, and hopefully President Trump will
06:16handle it that way.
06:18Well, indeed, the world definitely cannot say they're not aware of the situation in
06:21Gaza with 47,000 people killed in that war.
06:24Who cares?
06:26Who cares?
06:26Who cares about the people killed?
06:28Who cares about people suffering?
06:30I'm sorry.
06:30We are in power politics for too long where nothing human matters.
06:35That's what Palestinians have learned.
06:38Indeed, very little reaction coming during that war in Gaza.
06:43As the ceasefire holds there, before we leave you, Miss Cowdery, can you give us an idea
06:47of the latest on the situation in the West Bank?
06:49Because we understand that while the ceasefire has been holding in Gaza, there's been rising
06:54violence and tension and bombings in the West Bank.
06:57Yes, Israel has turned from Gaza to the West Bank to continue with the same plan, maybe
07:02slightly at a slower pace.
07:04But the same ethnic cleansing process is in play, and to starting with the war on many
07:13of the camps in Jenin and elsewhere, mainly to liquidate the issue of the, to discuss
07:22the refugees at all in any kind of negotiations.
07:25So they will, trying to strengthen their, Israel in general is trying to strengthen
07:30its negotiating position and did so brilliantly so far, ethnic cleansing in the West Bank.
07:35And then we have to discuss that, and it becomes a price to be paid that we accept the ceasing,
07:42this ethnic cleansing, as a price maybe for normalization.
07:46You know, it's also possible.
07:49So let's hope that the world will be much more awakened to these dangers, because other
07:55than real peace, it's basically chaos for the whole region.
07:59And I think Israel's plan, and Netanyahu's plan, is for more internal fighting, not only
08:04among Palestinians, but in Syria, Lebanon, and probably elsewhere.
08:10And that's not a very promising future for anybody.
08:14A region that is inflamed for much, much longer is a danger to the world economy, is a danger
08:20to world stability, and increasing conflict and destruction of world economy, of all economies
08:27in the world.
08:28Indeed, and money does speak when other things might not, as we well know, unfortunately.
08:33Former General Delegate of the Palestinian Authority here in France, Hind Qadri, we'll
08:37have to leave it there.
08:37But thank you so much for taking time out to speak to us here on France 24.