In a conversation presented by Easterseals Disability Services, a nonprofit supporting people with disabilities for over 100 years, disabled creatives and allies discuss inclusion in Hollywood.
Category
✨
PeopleTranscript
00:00Easterseals is working with the disability community on a new multimedia report in which
00:16this conversation is a signature element that takes a deep dive into the current state of
00:20disability inclusion in entertainment.
00:22This project builds on the 2018 report Easterseals did in collaboration with Variety called Abilities
00:28Unlimited, How People with Disabilities are Helping Hollywood Win.
00:33And today we are here with several disabled people and allies that are in the entertainment
00:38industry to discuss.
00:42Casting of course is the first place to start.
00:45Authenticity to me is yes, casting disabled people in roles that are disabled characters
00:54but on top of that expanding and opening minds into why can't this character be disabled.
01:02Because I think our own live experiences no matter where we come from or if we are a minority
01:08adds an extra layer to a story.
01:11The casting thing is like that's my pet peeve with the industry and I try to reach out to
01:16as many casting people as possible.
01:18Like when you read a script and it says girlfriend comes in the room, like it used to in the
01:24old days they would picture a white girl, white woman.
01:28And now they don't.
01:29Now they think it could be white, could be black, could be Asian.
01:31Well that's got to be the same way for disability.
01:34Like that person doesn't have to be an able-bodied person and if you think outside that and start
01:39opening the doors for all these roles makes the movie better or the TV show better because
01:44it's a more real world.
01:45It's not just 98% able-bodied people which is not the real world.
01:5030% of Americans identify as having a disability so it's actually the largest minority in the
01:55country.
01:56If you want to have an authentic representation of the world then you need to include people
01:59with disabilities in your casting.
02:01I feel like authentic storytelling always hits close for the audience.
02:05Like you can always tell when it's good authentic storytelling because of the people that engage
02:09with it and the communities that are showing up and experiencing the work and being impacted
02:14by it.
02:15I feel like there's so many examples of like bad disability representation where the disabled
02:19community is not necessarily connecting with the work and you can always kind of gauge
02:24after the fact like whether or not it was good authentic storytelling.
02:27Yeah and it's also being able to recognize that people with disabilities are people first.
02:33The challenge that a lot of people have is when they think of disabled actors or disabled
02:38characters in a story that their story has to be predicated on the fact that they have
02:43a disability.
02:45So I think that ultimately ends up being the problem is like this separation between the
02:51humanity of a person with a disability and other people.
02:57Nobody has ever educated anybody on disability lifestyle and just the existence of us just
03:05trying to maneuver through the world and so it's like you can't necessarily blame people
03:11who don't know, who haven't had the experience.
03:13They've never been open to it or exposed to it but at the same time it's like how else
03:18do they get to know the do's and the don'ts.
03:22The only way usually is through entertainment or like social media at this point.
03:27And education as well.
03:29I mean before Wicked I was working with kids a lot.
03:33I genuinely love the job but it was very apparent to me how little kids and then who obviously
03:40later grow into adults just do not know about disability because it's just not taught at
03:44all at least for me.
03:46Yeah.
03:47Yeah.
03:48I always say it was like I was blessed to grow up in a neighborhood.
03:50We had a bunch of people with disabilities, friends, brothers and a friend who was a quadriplegic.
04:00But I thought the whole world was like that and it is like that to a point.
04:05But we're very comfortable with it so when we started making movies and we were putting
04:09people with disabilities they said, why are you doing that?
04:11I was like, why am I doing that?
04:15That's the world.
04:16We want people to believe you're in a real world.
04:18Yeah.
04:19And that's the way.
04:20Let me ask something.
04:21Autumn, how did you get seen?
04:24How did you make yourself known?
04:26Yeah, that's a great question.
04:28Well I met my agents in like 2019 and started auditioning and I mostly did theater at the
04:34time.
04:35Theater is really interesting because you do sometimes just get cast in a role.
04:39You have a disability, you get cast in a role that was not written for a disabled person
04:42at all.
04:43So I was just so used to playing roles that were not written for disabled people.
04:47And then when I started auditioning for film and TV I started to really process and realize
04:51like unless they explicitly say that they are looking for a disabled person it becomes
04:56very difficult in a different way than I feel like even for theater it is sometimes.
05:01I auditioned for a moment of the hour just through a self tape and I was in between jobs.
05:07I was working my little struggle job, you know, and it had been a couple, it had been
05:13probably two years since I'd gotten an audition for a disabled character that I could play.
05:18I auditioned for it and I was like, God, this would be such a cool project, but there's
05:23just no way that they're going to cast me to play like a real person who was a real
05:27girl who didn't have a disability.
05:29Like that's just not something that Hollywood does.
05:31That's just not happening.
05:33And when I got the call back, I was like, Oh wow, what a great opportunity to meet Anna
05:37Kendrick and that's that, you know, and I did the call back.
05:42And then when I got the call, well, I knew that she was aware of my disability at that
05:46point because my agent said that they had told her, but we hadn't like had a conversation
05:52about it at all.
05:54And so when I got to set on our first day of shooting, she was like, Hey, I would love
05:59to just have a conversation about the blocking and stuff before we go and go into shoot.
06:05And so she's like, we had a one-on-one conversation where she was just like, I know that you have
06:10one hand.
06:11If there's anything that I can do for you to make the blocking more accessible, if there's
06:15anything that you are not comfortable with or if there's anything you want to specifically
06:19add, I'm just totally open.
06:21She was just really collaborative about it, which was really cool.
06:25And yeah, so it was just, it was just very lovely that even though it had nothing to
06:29do with the character, she was still willing to have that conversation with me.
06:33But I think that's the thing that's like incredibly important is recognizing the people that are
06:38directors, producers, financiers, whoever it is, it's, it's okay to ask, to be educated.
06:46It's okay to ask, to say, how can I make this more comfortable for you?
06:51Because we know, we know that more likely than not, you have absolutely no education
06:59on my lifestyle or what my accessibility looks like.
07:02And so I actually appreciate the fact that you're open and being collaborative.
07:06I think a lot of times because people are directors and they are producers, there is
07:10a certain level of like, I have to go into this acting like I'm already knowing the answer.
07:15We're like, I should know this, so I'm not going to ask.
07:17Right, exactly.
07:18So I don't want to, and I don't want to ask because I don't want to feel bad that I don't
07:23know.
07:24Or offensive.
07:25The onus should not always be on you to have to say, hey, I need this and I need that.
07:28And it shouldn't be a shameful thing to talk about what, what do you need to do your job
07:33or live your life.
07:34When it becomes this like elephant in the room situation where like no one wants to
07:38acknowledge it.
07:39Exactly.
07:40That is so much more uncomfortable.
07:41Exactly.
07:43Thanks to the disability coordinator that was hired on Wicked.
07:49And not only was she a disability coordinator, but she was also disabled herself, which made
07:54a huge difference because nobody knows us better than us.
07:59So her just showing up to set the day prior or just however prior and making sure that
08:06the spaces were accessible.
08:09And then making sure I had an accessible trailer and like helping like build part of it itself.
08:17And rehearsal space, just genuinely everything you could think of, she was on it.
08:20Well, so on Out of My Mind, it was important to all of us, you know, producers, studio,
08:28everybody that the entire set be completely accessible.
08:31So we, you know, our lead actress, she uses a wheelchair and she was in every scene of
08:36the movie.
08:37So on that, we felt like it didn't matter if she was on set or not, the entire production
08:42was going to be accessible.
08:43And I remember people saying beforehand, oh, that's going to be more money.
08:47And I'm here to tell you, it didn't cost more money.
08:50It didn't take more time.
08:52It was so easy and it actually made the entire set more comfortable for everybody.
08:57Like we had DITs coming up to us and saying, hey, I actually, I need a special kind of
09:01screen monitor for my eyes.
09:02I've always been afraid to ask for this before because I thought maybe it wouldn't get hired.
09:07So we had a set where we were all just tight.
09:09Well, I'm neurodiverse and I have, you know, so it was really like, it made it so comfortable
09:15for everybody.
09:16So we had it, we had what they dubbed themselves the all access team.
09:19So we had an all, you know, an accessibility team of people.
09:23We had consultants who were people who either have CP or work for CP organizations or whose
09:29children have CP.
09:30So we had so many people just lending their thoughts, their input.
09:36And it was a really beautiful, magical experience.
09:39Like I've never been on a set before that felt so, for lack of a better word, inclusive
09:44like and comfortable for everybody.
09:47I will say like all of the projects that I've been on, Give Me Liberty, Bob Trevino Likes
09:51It, Sex Eyes, everyone has been really great at being able to say, hey, Lolo, like what
09:57is it that you need?
09:59Like, let's talk about this more, like with this being your character, let's talk about
10:05how the character would genuinely respond in this situation and being able to have that
10:10open conversation.
10:12So that way, even in moments throughout the script or something comes up, I'm like, oh,
10:17excuse me.
10:18That's, that's not how that would go down.
10:20No, no, no, no.
10:21We need to work this out.
10:22And that seems like such a small thing.
10:23Yeah.
10:24But it is not a small thing.
10:25It's not.
10:26At all.
10:27At all.
10:28When you're being requested to do like blocking or something that is so unnatural, it is so
10:32deeply frustrating because you're like, I even one time like was directed to do this
10:36one blocking thing and I was like, hey, I can't really do that.
10:40And it was like, well, let's like figure it out.
10:42I was like, no, like there's no figuring this out.
10:44Like I can't, I cannot do that.
10:46It's not happening.
10:47It's not actually happening.
10:48And it like ruined my day.
10:49I was so upset.
10:51And then I felt like I was being like a diva, you know, because I was like, I wish I could
10:54just get it together and like not feel so flustered right now.
10:58I think that's a common feeling within the disability spaces is certain things that are
11:02left unsaid can really contribute to a disabled person feeling like they are asking for too
11:08much when it's literally just them asking for the most basic income so that they can
11:13have the same equity that their co-stars do.
11:15Yeah.
11:16It does become an intimidating experience because we know how few and far between the
11:22opportunity to even get the role comes.
11:26And then it's like, oh, God forbid, I actually ask for a certain type of water.
11:30As we were talking about before, in terms of just like the little things of how I would
11:35naturally move about a space in terms of blocking or just little things like how I would carry
11:41a bag, usually on the back of my chair, and we adjusted from there.
11:46And this goes back into the conversation of just in general with casting and people on
11:52set and directors, just always asking rather than just assuming, because how is any progress
11:58ever going to be made if anybody's ever too afraid to ask in the first place?
12:03Yeah.
12:04And especially again, it's like, we know you don't know.
12:06Yeah.
12:07It's obvious.
12:08It's okay that you don't know.
12:09It's okay that you don't know, but we can't keep acting like you do know because that
12:14creates the roadblock to the actual change that needs to be made.
12:18And it's okay to be open because there's things that I still don't know about certain
12:23things that happen on set that I'm like, every set is a learning process, whether you're
12:27learning your castmates, who they are as people, or just learning the characters and each other,
12:33but also just navigating set life in general.
12:37This is not a real place.
12:39Set is not a real place.
12:40So it's like everyone has to learn how to navigate whatever this four walls is that
12:45they built on this lot.
12:48Well, there was never any question in my mind or any of the producers' minds that we would
12:52not cast authentically.
12:54It was...
12:55Well...
12:56It didn't even...
12:57I mean, the character has cerebral palsy and uses a wheelchair and is nonverbal.
13:01I don't think it ever crossed any of our minds to not cast somebody with CP and who used
13:06a wheelchair.
13:07And when it came to me, my first thought was, I don't have lived experience with CP.
13:13I don't think I should be the person to direct this.
13:15And I actually was going to pass on it.
13:17And then what I did find is that because my children have learning differences in their
13:23neurodisabilities, I have fought school administrations for them to get what they legally are supposed
13:31to be getting just to read and the accommodations that they needed in classrooms.
13:35And so I felt like I had a connection to what the parents in the story had been through.
13:41It was a really wonderful process because while we were casting, it was a very long
13:44casting process.
13:45We were looking for a girl between the ages of 10 and 13 who has CP, who uses a wheelchair.
13:52I started out looking for somebody who was also nonverbal and used AAC.
13:57We didn't get a lot of submissions.
14:00And I think that is largely due to the fact that maybe young kids who have CP, they don't
14:06see themselves represented up on screen.
14:08And so they don't think, oh, I could maybe be an actor.
14:11But we can think about authenticity being where everybody has a story inside of them
14:17and everybody should have the space and the time to tell their own story.
14:22And what that means is that I do hope that the next movie gets made by somebody with
14:28CP who can make it even more authentic.
14:31I would like to see people who identify as having a disability feel welcomed into Hollywood
14:36and feel like they get to tell the stories that they want to tell that are not just about
14:41their disability.
14:42Absolutely.
14:43That are about their lives.
14:45Yeah.
14:46I think that the industry is slowly moving in the right direction.
14:52But the call would be to open up castings.
14:56There are so many good actors out there with disabilities.
14:58You were saying you didn't get a lot of people coming in for the cerebral palsy role.
15:03Well, we were in Canada and we were shooting a show and we were in Vancouver and I said
15:08I wanted to see some little people.
15:10And the casting person who was one of the biggest casting agencies in Canada said, we
15:16don't have any.
15:17I said, what do you mean you don't have any?
15:19We have no little people actors.
15:21I said, yeah, you do.
15:22That's embarrassing.
15:23Yeah.
15:24You just don't know about them.
15:26And I remember, by the way, the woman was extremely embarrassed.
15:28And she's gone way out of her way since that time.
15:32This was like 10 years ago.
15:33And by the way, this is a tribute to Easter Seals, which was, I remembered some actors.
15:40So I said, we'll fly them in from the States.
15:42And we did.
15:43And we had a bunch of them and they became regular characters on the show.
15:47But a whole country didn't have, and you know there's hundreds or thousands of little people
15:53up there who want to act, but nobody ever asked them to.
15:56So I'm saying, open the doors.
15:59Come on.
16:00All the way.
16:01Get them in the room.
16:02Get them in the door and make the films and TV shows better because they'll be more real.
16:09Yeah.
16:10Just listening to disabled people, hiring more people in the writers' rooms, disabled
16:15people in the writers' rooms, because I think that's a great place to start as well.
16:20Have more disabled people in casting in general.
16:23I think that's huge.
16:25Although I think our identities are, of course, important to our stories.
16:29That's not all that we are.
16:30We're so much more complex than the one thing or the boxes that we're sometimes put into.
16:37And I think being open minded and really questioning yourself and unlearning potentially your own
16:42internalized ableism and understanding why can't it be this way?
16:47Why does it have to be just the one way that I have in my brain?
16:50I think my call to action is for other disabled people to feel worthy and feel like they can
17:04take up space and recognizing that sometimes you are the best person for the job.
17:11And finding community is the most important thing to me because the more that we can stick
17:19by each other and find community and find people that want to be a part of the community.
17:26I've spent so much time telling myself that I didn't fit at any table or didn't belong
17:31at any table and that me as a person is just such an anomaly that no one cares.
17:41I want to say though also that what you were describing, that feeling of feeling like no
17:46one's going to see this, no one's going to care about this, that is also a very universal
17:51feeling and to know that every writer, every director, every creative goes through that
17:57maybe might help you feel like, you know what, I deserve it because pretty much, I'm sure
18:01you went through that.
18:02You were just saying with your first thing, everything I write, I'm like, this is horrible.
18:07My call to action, hire people that don't look like you, that don't speak like you,
18:13whose bodies don't move like your body moves.
18:15And I don't just mean as actors, I also mean as members of the crew and as a director,
18:22I get to hire a lot of people.
18:24One of the best things I learned about my movie was because when you speak to somebody
18:28who uses AAC, depending on how they use it and depending on their facility with it or
18:32how long they've had it, depending on so many things, it is a slower conversation than we
18:38are necessarily having here.
18:39And so the importance of taking the time to listen was the best gift I got, I think,
18:45from the film.
18:46But take the time to listen.
18:48I would say my message is you're not as far removed from the disabled community as I think
18:53you think you are.
18:55And I think once people who have a position of power, who can change things, once they
19:02realize they're not as far removed as they think that they are, then they will recognize
19:10these are stories that are worth being told.
19:14Because whether it's you already have a family member or you're actually living with a disability
19:18and you don't know it, or you're living with a disability and you just don't identify with
19:21it, you are right there with us just as much as we are actively a part of this community
19:29and this culture.
19:31So recognize that our stories are more universal, they're more relatable than I think you think
19:38they are.
19:39And realizing that piece, I think, will be able to change the game in such a significant
19:46way.
19:47Because it matters for everyone to be represented and not just like disabilities, but people
19:54of color with disabilities, people of different genders, identities with disabilities as well.
19:59And I think being able to recognize that relatability will be able to give the change that needs
20:06to happen, to be able to fund those projects, to be able to give the opportunities to the
20:12talent so that we can be A-list stars just as much as everyone else gets the opportunity
20:17to get a chance to do too.
20:19If people with disabilities had just as much freedom and opportunity to audition for every
20:25single other role, I wouldn't care if a non-disabled person played a disabled role, as long as
20:31I, as a disabled person, can know I have just as much equity and opportunity to audition
20:37for a role that does not call out for my disability specifically.
20:41So I think if everyone just kind of grapples their mind around that, we will be in a better place.