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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello, everyone.
00:11I'm François Picard.
00:13On day two of what Israel is calling Operation Iron Wall, gunfire and explosions rocking
00:19the West Bank city of Jenin.
00:21The raid has left at least 10 dead, staff and patients at one point trapped for hours
00:27inside of a local hospital.
00:30It's all happening just days after the truce in Gaza went into effect.
00:35More on that story now.
00:39As Israeli tanks rolled into Jenin on Tuesday, medics scrambled to treat the wounded.
00:45It began what Israel called a significant operation to eradicate terrorism in the occupied
00:50West Bank.
00:51Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu added it was part of a broader strategy to counter
00:56Iran which supports militant groups including Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
01:01We are acting systematically and resolutely against the Iranian axis wherever it extends
01:06its arms, in Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, and Judea and Samaria.
01:12Islamic Jihad vowed to fight back against the latest operation, saying Israel launched
01:16it after failing to achieve its goals in Gaza.
01:20According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, several people were killed in the raids and
01:25medics said they treated a number of people wounded by gunshots.
01:29The Palestinian security forces and Jenin residents accused Israel of targeting civilians.
01:35There's a sniper in the Rabia building.
01:40Anyone he sees passing by, men, women or a little girl, he shoots.
01:44He has already hit six people and I've seen it.
01:47Even a public services car went by and he shot at it.
01:52The operation came just two days after a ceasefire in Gaza and the violence is raising
01:57concerns with the head of the United Nations urging Israel to exercise maximum restraint.
02:04Violence throughout the West Bank has soared since Hamas' October 7 attacks in 2023.
02:10According to the Health Ministry, Israeli troops or settlers have killed more than 800
02:15Palestinians while some 30 Israelis have been killed in Palestinian attacks or during Israeli
02:21army raids.
02:23Our coverage begins in Jerusalem.
02:25Correspondent Noga Tarnapovsky is there.
02:27Noga, what's the latest?
02:29Well, the latest is that we have quite a bit of confusion about this raid.
02:36This is the third Israeli major military operation in Jenin since the war started.
02:43And the Israeli army spokesperson who gave a press conference a little bit earlier today
02:49was basically unable to respond to two questions.
02:53One, does this mean that the previous operations have failed if this is a third one?
02:59He tried to describe this as sort of a bit of cleaning house of police, kind of consulate
03:04police work.
03:06And then responding to a question relating to the prime minister's statement that Iranian
03:11arms have infiltrated into the West Bank, he did not actually make a concrete claim
03:17that we're dealing with Iranian arms.
03:20On the other hand, the most recent fighting in Jenin, as recent as around 10 days ago,
03:26was a Palestinian Authority forces operation against these same Jenin brigades.
03:32So right now in Israel, there are many, many questions, among them the uncomfortable political
03:38question, is Prime Minister Netanyahu trying to transmit to Israelis that he's still a
03:44wartime prime minister and there's still a war to be handled, even when there is a ceasefire
03:51with Hezbollah in the north and so far a truce that is holding vis-a-vis Hamas in the south.
03:59But we saw, for instance, in that statement that was in the report, referring to the West
04:05Bank as Judean Samaria, which is the language used by settlers and those who want Israel
04:11to annex all of the Palestinian territories.
04:16Just how much of the Israeli population would like to make a grab for the West Bank?
04:27Not a lot of the Israeli population is interested in the kind of annexation that you're talking
04:32about.
04:33Some of Netanyahu's most prominent ministers are interested in that.
04:37The language, using the term Judean Samaria, the biblical terms for this area, this is
04:42true.
04:43It has become a kind of lingua franca in Israel recently, and certainly it's a symbol for
04:48the prime minister to refer to it that way.
04:50It's important probably to note that under Israeli law, the West Bank remains occupied
04:56territory.
04:57It is not part of the state of Israel.
05:00And so this is kind of using a political line, political wink to his base.
05:07What we are seeing, though, are some of Netanyahu's ministers and cronies making all kind of statements
05:13that seem to indicate that they don't want the ceasefires to last and that they definitely
05:20want more of a free hand to do whatever they would like in the West Bank.
05:27This is following night after night of really catastrophic, I would say anarchic scenes
05:34of West Bank settlers rampaging in the West Bank, setting homes and cars on fire in the
05:40village of Turmus Aya near Naklus in other sites.
05:45So what we're seeing is growing violence and a government that doesn't know exactly which
05:53way to take it.
05:54I think in part they're waiting to hear from the Trump administration.
05:58Again, there are mixed messages.
06:02President Trump's new secretary of state, Marco Rubio, the new ambassador to the U.N.,
06:06Elise Stefanik, have said that the entire West Bank was handed by God to the Jews.
06:11It belongs to Israel as if it were already Israeli.
06:15And yet the U.S. government hasn't changed its official position.
06:18This is occupied territory.
06:20Stay with us, Noga Tarnapovsky, because I want to turn to Washington now.
06:25And Palestinian human rights attorney Zaha Hassan, a fellow at the Carnegie Endowment
06:31for International Peace think tank.
06:33Zaha, thank you for being with us here on France 24.
06:37Thanks for having me.
06:38So Donald Trump surprised Benjamin Netanyahu, it seems, by pushing back and insisting that
06:47there be a deal on Gaza.
06:49Is he ready to give Netanyahu everything he wants when it comes to the West Bank?
06:56Well, look, I mean, what we've seen already is a president who is very close to the settler
07:07movement.
07:08He has filled his administration with individuals who are very supportive of a greater Israel.
07:16So obviously, with that kind of signaling, it's clear that the settlement movement is
07:23going to be treated well under the Trump administration.
07:29In fact, one of his first orders of business was to issue an executive order to repeal
07:36or to remove the sanctions that were on the few Israeli settlers that were considered
07:43violent and problematic in terms of the pursuit of a two-state solution.
07:48So all that we have seen already in this very short time since the Trump administration
07:54has taken over the helm of government in the U.S. is that the settler movement and the
08:00greater Israel designs of Netanyahu and also of his governing coalition will be supported.
08:08Will be supportive.
08:09And is the new secretary of state, Marco Rubio, a wild card on this issue?
08:16No, I think former Senator Rubio was very supportive as well of Israel, very critical
08:26of the notion of Palestinian self-determination and Palestinian statehood.
08:31But at the end of the day, what matters in the Trump administration is not the State
08:35Department.
08:36The Israel-Palestine policy is going to be set by the White House, and the White House
08:40is going to have a very hands-on approach when it comes to Israel.
08:45And it's going to be those closest to President Trump that will be determinative.
08:51Now, he has an envoy for the Middle East, Steve Woodcock, who has been effective in
08:59terms of the willingness that he's shown in getting the ceasefire over the finish line
09:06to threaten the use of U.S. leverage.
09:10And so the question is, will this dealmaker, will this individual who is now the envoy
09:17also be willing to use that leverage to pull back Israel when it needs to be pulled back,
09:24when it moves into excess, which it has been prone to do, and we've seen it in terms of
09:30the destruction that has been wrought over Gaza.
09:34Let's talk about Gaza for a second and cross back to Jerusalem and correspondent Noga Tarnapovsky
09:38there.
09:40We're always wondering, because it is day four of the truce, it is holding, and my question
09:45is a simple one.
09:47Is the government of Benjamin Netanyahu testing the terms of the truce?
09:52You heard Zaha mention how Steve Woodcock applied pressure.
09:56Is he testing the terms when we get this statement saying that Israeli forces will stay at the
10:02Rafah border crossing with Egypt during the first phase of the ceasefire?
10:10Right.
10:11Well we learned quite a few details about the ceasefire agreement today that Benjamin
10:17Netanyahu would have preferred we not learn.
10:19The first one is simply that discussions are already underway.
10:23We also know that Steve Woodcock is already on his way back here.
10:27So what we found out today from Qatari sources is that Israel had accepted that in phase
10:35two the Palestinian Authority will retake control, which it lost in 2007, of the border
10:43between Gaza and Egypt.
10:44This is also a firm Egyptian request that Israel not be on its border with Gaza.
10:52In response to this, Prime Minister Netanyahu dispatched two of the people closest to him
10:58to say no, that it's not the case.
11:01One was his right-hand man, Minister of Strategic Affairs Ron Dermer, who wasn't very clear.
11:08He just said that's not the case, absolutely not the case.
11:11And he said that kind of vague, unaffiliated Gazans are going to be in charge of the border,
11:17which is difficult to believe.
11:20But then, more importantly, one of the voices, I would say, closest to Prime Minister Netanyahu,
11:27another minister, David Amsalem, came flat out and said there will not be a stage two.
11:34Stage two is crucial.
11:36It's when Palestinians are again supposed to regain at least the administration of Gaza,
11:41of important forces, and the IDF is supposed to withdraw completely from Gaza in phase two.
11:48So I think what we see testing the waters today are, on the one hand, a government that
11:55is pursuing negotiations in Doha, despite the fact that it wanted us to think it wasn't,
12:01and at the same time is messaging Israelis, at least, no, no, no, we're not going to end
12:07this war.
12:08We're pushing forward.
12:10I think that the next visit, Steve Whitkoff's next visit, is going to be a real test of,
12:15as Zaha Hassan mentioned, of his use of leverage and of Netanyahu's very difficult choice.
12:22Is he going to go now with his right-wing cabinet, or is he going to flow with what
12:27the Trump administration has been asking him to do?
12:33So Zaha Hassan, if you are a betting woman, what do you think Steve Whitkoff's message
12:38to Benjamin Netanyahu will be?
12:43I think it's going to be more listening at this point than it is going to be telling
12:48him what to do.
12:50I think that what we heard today from Steve Whitkoff was that he was amenable even to
12:57hearing from Hamas about a diplomatic resolution.
13:03So he isn't, as the Biden administration was, so adamant that there could be no accommodation
13:13with Hamas.
13:14He didn't say that there wouldn't be an accommodation.
13:16He said he would be interested in pursuing a ceasefire with Hamas, and he favored that
13:26to continuation of conflict.
13:29So it seems that Steve Whitkoff is signaling to Hamas as well as to Israel, and now it's
13:40going to be up to Israel to explain to Steve Whitkoff whether it's serious about continuing
13:47through all of the phases of the agreement.
13:49Yeah, because if I hear you correctly, Zaha, the Trump administration is staking now its
13:57reputation on there being a phase two.
14:00Well, I don't know that I would say that, because there's some very troubling signs.
14:06We heard that in reporting that there are officials in the Trump administration that
14:13were talking about relocating Palestinians to Indonesia, Palestinians from Gaza, because
14:19of the devastation that's been wrought.
14:22And we've been hearing other statements, including from Steve Whitkoff, about the real estate
14:30of Gaza and how it could be so beautiful.
14:33And obviously, we've heard in the past, before the Trump administration took over from Jared
14:40Kushner, Trump's son-in-law, that there could be great development of Gaza, and it didn't
14:46sound like that would be for the benefit of Palestinians, but more for resorts and luxury
14:51hotels.
14:52And so there is a lot of mixed messaging and concern about exactly what the Trump administration
14:58envisages for Gaza.
15:01Zaha Hassan, one final question for you.
15:04How's this playing in places like Dearborn, Michigan, where Palestinian Americans voted
15:10with their feet at times during the last presidential election?
15:14You know, you don't have to go as far as Detroit, even, or Dearborn, to think about the very
15:21different ways in which Palestinians are understanding or misunderstanding the new Trump administration.
15:28I mean, there have been, in Dearborn, people that are very much willing to give Trump,
15:36you know, a second try, and to see what he might be able to do, because he did manage
15:42to force Israel into a ceasefire.
15:46There are people in Gaza who are so pleased at having a respite from the bombardment,
15:53a respite from the zinning of drones and quadcopters, that you see children holding
15:59signs saying, thank you, Trump, you know.
16:01But there's also many more Palestinians around the world and in the occupied territories,
16:07especially those now facing pogroms in the West Bank with settlers run amok, as you saw
16:13in the video footage, that are deeply troubled that this might be, you know, the final act
16:19for them, and that the peace to prosperity plan that Trump had is now being realized
16:29at the end of a gun, and at the end of these pogroms.
16:33So it's very different.
16:35Palestinians are experiencing what's happening in very different ways, depending on their
16:39context.
16:40Zaha Hassan, I want to thank you so much for being with us from Washington.
16:46I also want to thank Noga Tarnapovsky, our correspondent in Jerusalem, who has been with
16:52us continuing to cover this story throughout.