HOW TO BE MEAN! Freedomain Call In

Stefan Molyneux

In this episode, I explore self-trust in relation to obligation and desire through a conversation with a caller grappling with familial expectations and career choices. Together, we examine the role of personal agency, the interplay of discipline and pleasure, and the impact of upbringing on decision-making. We also discuss the dynamics of respect in relationships, highlighting how self-perception influences interactions. This episode encourages listeners to redefine their connections with desire and obligation, advocating for a more authentic and fulfilling life.  GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND AUDIOBOOK!  https://peacefulparenting.com/  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Also get the Truth About the French Revolution, multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material, as well as targeted AIs for Real-Time Relationships, BitCoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-Ins. Don't miss the private livestreams, premium call in shows, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon!  https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2022

Transcript

00:00:00Yes, and I really do appreciate you guys dropping by on this New Year's, I hope you had a great

00:00:04Christmas, and I hope you had a great New Year's, and I am sure that we are going to

00:00:12do some absolutely fantastic stuff this year in the realm of philosophy, because it is

00:00:16year 20!

00:00:18Year 20!

00:00:20That's right!

00:00:22This show is almost old enough to drink in just about every American state.

00:00:26It's almost, almost old enough to drink, and that is really, really something and a half,

00:00:33so I'm very pleased and excited about that.

00:00:37All right, so we are happy to take questions and comments.

00:00:42You can raise your hands and unmute.

00:00:45Yes, Vida, I have unmuted you if you want to unmute yourself.

00:00:51You can be the first caller in the 20th year of Free Domain.

00:00:57A question that was asked on another stream, another live stream, I have the question,

00:01:03I didn't ask this, I just heard it, I wasn't actually there for the live stream either,

00:01:08but it was, does trusting yourself involve giving up doing things out of obligation and

00:01:12waiting for desire, and what does trusting oneself and one's instincts entail?

00:01:19And that's, the podcast number and the name is 5766, the CEO Shooter, and the time step

00:01:25of that question is one hour, five minutes, and thirty-four seconds, right?

00:01:32And what's the question?

00:01:34The question again is, does trusting yourself involve giving up doing things out of obligation

00:01:40and waiting for desire?

00:01:43And what does trusting oneself-

00:01:44Sorry, is the beginning, is it, sorry, is the beginning mistrusting yourself?

00:01:48Or distrusting yourself, or something else?

00:01:50I didn't quite get the beginning of that sentence.

00:01:54The beginning of the sentence is distrusting yourself.

00:01:58Right.

00:01:59So distrusting yourself is waiting to feel pleasure rather than following obligation,

00:02:06is that right?

00:02:10How he puts it is-

00:02:11Sorry, how he puts it, was it not my, sorry, hang on, sorry, how he puts it, was it not

00:02:17my show?

00:02:19Are these my words?

00:02:20No, no, this is someone commented on this on a live, on one of your live streams that

00:02:25you do.

00:02:26Okay, got it, sorry.

00:02:28Yeah, and so the way the person puts it is doing things out of obligation and waiting

00:02:33for desire.

00:02:34I'm still not sure what your question is, could you state it as a philosophical question?

00:02:42Well, I'll put it this way, I'm trying to understand how to trust myself, and I'm kind

00:02:51of like with, I'm having the same issue kind of with this guy where I'm kind of stuck between

00:02:59obligation and desire, as well as, I just don't really know, I'm not really, I'm very

00:03:07bad at navigating between obligation and desire, I'm like caught in between.

00:03:13Okay, give me, sorry, can you, yeah, that's great, I appreciate that, thank you.

00:03:17Can you give me a concrete, specific example to make sure I'm aiming my answer in the right

00:03:23direction?

00:03:27In your life?

00:03:28I can't, I can't think, like, I can't think of one in particular, I just, I can think

00:03:34of like how the experience feels like, I guess like, actually no, I haven't experienced

00:03:39like while I was preparing.

00:03:40If you're struggling with it, it's got to show up in your life somewhere, right, so

00:03:43what you got?

00:03:44It shows up in all of our lives, every single one of us has this challenge, so what's yours?

00:03:51Like preparing for this question and speaking to you, like, for me, like my heart's pumping

00:03:58in a manner that like I'm, like, almost like I'm shaking, and I understand there is supposed

00:04:05to be some anxiety, but to me it just feels disproportional, like you're asking me these

00:04:09questions and my mind is going blank, so that would be an example, I think that's a good

00:04:18example.

00:04:19Okay, so obligation and desire, how is that showing up?

00:04:24Because what you're sounding sounds like, you know, mild anxiety or nervousness or whatever

00:04:27it is, which is fine, I mean, you're in a new situation, right, so I've been doing this

00:04:32kind of philosophical stuff for like over 40 years, and you are doing this for the first

00:04:39time, right, so of course you're going to be more nervous, right, that makes total sense,

00:04:43but how does this, the desire is what and the obligation is what, like what is the conflict

00:04:51here?

00:04:52Let's see, I'm still thinking.

00:05:03Do you have an issue in your life like making money or maybe eating well or going to the

00:05:08gym or something where you know that there's an obligation that you could have relative

00:05:13to health or wealth, but you just don't want to do it or you wait for the desire to kick

00:05:17in or something like that?

00:05:22For example, I've been out of work and like I've been using my savings and so getting

00:05:28another job has been very difficult for me.

00:05:32And why do you think getting another job has been difficult?

00:05:36Well, my other job beforehand, I was working for my father, so it was something that was

00:05:41just given to me, I didn't really want it, but that's a story for another time, so I

00:05:46haven't really been in the real world, I've just been stuck in my father's orbit and that's

00:05:51partly why it's difficult.

00:05:54And how old are you?

00:05:57I'm 29.

00:06:00And how long did you work for your father?

00:06:08I'm sorry, I think you cut out there.

00:06:11Sure, how long did you work for your father for?

00:06:16I started when I was 18 and it ended when I was 20, let's say 28, so for almost 11 years.

00:06:28And why did you stop working for your father?

00:06:36I stopped because it was a bad, well, my dad took advantage of me and I didn't like

00:07:00the work, it was a very bad work environment.

00:07:04People were passive-aggressive towards each other and worse with me because my father

00:07:09was the owner, so all the things they wanted to say to my father, they would just say to

00:07:15me or be passive-aggressive towards me, and that's just to name a few bad things.

00:07:23And how long have you been listening to what I do?

00:07:27Many years.

00:07:30And when did you first begin to suspect that it was not a productive or positive thing

00:07:35to be working for your father?

00:07:42From the beginning.

00:07:43Sorry, go ahead.

00:07:48Yeah, sorry.

00:07:51I never wanted to work for my father, but I got forced into it, and when I realized

00:07:59it was a really bad thing, it was maybe a year or two.

00:08:02Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:08:04Okay, so this is a narrative, and the new year is going to be no narratives.

00:08:10So when you say to me, I never wanted to work for my father, that's impossible, unless you

00:08:15were kidnapped and sent down to the salt mines, no, no, let me talk.

00:08:20So unless you were kidnapped and sent down to the salt mines of Aldebaran, there has

00:08:24to be a part of you that wanted to work for your father.

00:08:27So if I say, I never wanted to see my mother, then the question is, well, given that I wasn't

00:08:31forced at gunpoint to, why did I see my mother?

00:08:34So there was a part of me that did want to see my mother, and then there was a part of

00:08:38me that didn't.

00:08:40So if you say, I never wanted to work for my father, well, it's pretty easy to not work

00:08:44for your father.

00:08:45You just don't work for your father, again, unless he's some Saudi prince who's got you

00:08:48locked in a salt mine in Kessel or something.

00:08:51So if you say...

00:08:52Well, I have a practical reason.

00:08:53I'm sorry?

00:08:55I have a practical reason, and that was I didn't have a high school diploma at the time

00:08:59because I dropped out, and my father said, you either work for me or I'll kick you out.

00:09:03And it was a whole family, like, it was very tense.

00:09:09My grandmother, who lived in the same house as I did, and she rented her room, she told

00:09:13me out of kindness, you can stay in my room, you don't have to, you know, you don't have

00:09:17to worry.

00:09:18So I mean, you're right, that's not by gunpoint, absolutely.

00:09:21But I think that encompasses the definition of being forced into something.

00:09:25Hang on, hang on.

00:09:26So what you're saying is that your choices were limited because you dropped out of high

00:09:30school?

00:09:31Yes, maybe that isn't being forced, then you would be right.

00:09:36Did you choose to drop out of high school?

00:09:43I mean, fundamentally, yes, but at the time, it didn't...

00:09:48I was getting very depressed and having major anxiety, and I was just skipping out of school.

00:09:54And I was a good student beforehand.

00:09:56And so eventually, I just stopped going.

00:10:00And I was over 18, and so even though the school could threaten me, I was an adult,

00:10:05so I wasn't obligated anymore to go to school.

00:10:09And so with some assistance from my mother, I didn't finish school.

00:10:16Sorry, there's a lot in there I'm trying to unpack here.

00:10:20So when you said, I was a good student before, before what?

00:10:27I would say before my senior year.

00:10:30My senior year, a lot of things happened.

00:10:33I'm sorry about not knowing the lingo.

00:10:35Senior year, does that mean grade 12?

00:10:37Yes, I'm from the United States, so it would be grade 12, the last year of high school.

00:10:43Okay, so for some portion of the last year of high school, you were unhappy, you said

00:10:48depressed, anxious, is that right?

00:10:50Yes.

00:10:52And before that, you were a good student?

00:10:55Yeah.

00:10:56Okay, so what happened?

00:10:57It was...

00:11:01A lot of things, actually, now that we're talking about it, I haven't thought about it in a long time.

00:11:08Well, at the time, I was a really good athlete as well, I was a top cross-country athlete.

00:11:17Hey, I did cross-country in high school too.

00:11:19That is a muddy, dirty, ugly business, man.

00:11:21I'll tell you, I don't have to tell you because I know.

00:11:24Oh yeah, oh yeah.

00:11:28I did a run in, I think it was grade 12.

00:11:32The mud was so bad that half the kids couldn't complete the race.

00:11:36They just had to go back and look for their shoes in the mud.

00:11:39It was quite something.

00:11:40But anyway, go on.

00:11:43Yeah, I had a similar experience, not personally with myself, but with one of my teammates where

00:11:48he lost his shoe and he didn't go back, he just kept going.

00:11:51He didn't go back, nice.

00:11:52That's commitment.

00:11:53Oh no, you don't go back, yeah.

00:11:55Especially if you're vying for the top spot, you work with it, you just manage.

00:12:01Yeah, yeah.

00:12:03Okay, so you're a good athlete, good student, and what happened?

00:12:07Yeah, so that's kind of...

00:12:12Would you ask me some questions?

00:12:13I know that sounds strange.

00:12:16Well, okay, so let me ask you this.

00:12:19In grades 2 through 11, you were a good student.

00:12:24At some point, you were a good athlete, so you were healthy, you were active, you're

00:12:29out there getting the good sun and the cardio and legs are pumping, arms are flying and

00:12:34all kinds of good stuff, right?

00:12:36And so at some point, you moved into a position or a situation of anxiety and work avoidance,

00:12:46is that right?

00:12:50Yes.

00:12:51Okay, so was that a quick transition or a slow transition?

00:12:56In other words, did you just wake up one day saying,

00:12:58man, I hate this freaking place, I'll chew my own arm off like a wolf at a trap to get out,

00:13:04or did you just wake up a little less motivated each day?

00:13:08The second, I would say over a six-month period starting at the beginning of summer

00:13:16till the end of the year, it was just gradually I started feeling worse.

00:13:21I didn't even consider it being depressed at the time,

00:13:25but now that I look back on it, I was feeling more and more depressed.

00:13:28And yeah, my anxiety was unbearable.

00:13:33Like I never skipped school.

00:13:34And I remember at the end of that year, of the year itself, not the school year,

00:13:41I remember facing this like daunting anxiety where I'm like,

00:13:46I don't want to go to school anymore.

00:13:49Right, okay.

00:13:50And my grades were so bad that I...

00:13:53Sorry, go ahead.

00:13:54Oh, sorry, I just want to say my grades later on, a couple months later,

00:13:58my grades were so bad that I got kicked out of track and field,

00:14:02which is with my school, you both do cross country and track and field,

00:14:06and that just made things worse.

00:14:09Okay, and so the beginning of the year is September, right?

00:14:14And then the end of the year is June?

00:14:19Yes, June.

00:14:21Okay, so September, you're okay.

00:14:23When does it start to kick in that things are bad?

00:14:28December.

00:14:30So December, so then December through the end of winter, early spring,

00:14:35and then through to early summer, you're just getting worse and worse.

00:14:38And what month was it roughly when you dropped out?

00:14:44So I was kicked out.

00:14:45I wasn't dropped out because my grades were really bad.

00:14:48They kicked me out.

00:14:49Okay, so that's fine.

00:14:50Sorry, I got that wrong.

00:14:52What month was it roughly that you were kicked out?

00:14:57Sorry, Steph, you cut out there.

00:15:00At least I think it's on my end.

00:15:01Sorry, I thought you had dropped...

00:15:03We got two things going on here.

00:15:05One is that you were kicked out of track and field or cross country running,

00:15:08and the other is you dropped out of school.

00:15:11So which one are we talking about, kicked out or dropped out?

00:15:15Oh, I was...

00:15:16Sorry, I was just mentioning about my internet connection.

00:15:19Just a moment ago, and I'm trying to fix it.

00:15:22So sorry.

00:15:23All right.

00:15:25Yeah, let me know when you can hear me.

00:15:30All right, well, I'm just going to talk then,

00:15:31because I think I actually do have enough information to lead this person,

00:15:36and he's got his internet issues.

00:15:39And yeah, well, so yeah, we have our internet issues.

00:15:46I may be on both sides.

00:15:47I'm not sure.

00:15:49But it's not so much towards the end of high school.

00:15:54Let's just say, obviously, this is the more concrete example.

00:15:57It's not so much that you're anxious about high school.

00:16:00It's that you're anxious about the end of high school.

00:16:06I mean, if you are a pilot and you're trying to take off

00:16:11and you're not sure you have enough runway,

00:16:13you're not anxious about the runway.

00:16:15You're anxious about the end of the runway.

00:16:19Now, if your parents have not prepared you for the world as a whole,

00:16:24if they have, in fact, interfered with your development of the world as a whole...

00:16:34I'm back.

00:16:35I don't want to interrupt.

00:16:37No, that's fine.

00:16:37So if your parents have not prepared you for adulthood,

00:16:41then the end of high school is going to be absolutely horrible.

00:16:45Because it's like, if you haven't studied for a test

00:16:50and the test is incredibly important,

00:16:53then the test is incredibly stressful.

00:16:55In fact, it is the anticipation of the stress of being unprepared for a test

00:16:59that is a major reason as to why we prepare for tests,

00:17:02why we swat or study or matriculate or however you want to phrase it, right?

00:17:09I told it right from my situation.

00:17:12Yeah, and now, so it's one thing if you're unprepared for the test.

00:17:15In other words, if your parents have just kind of resolutely ignored or neglected you,

00:17:19that's one thing.

00:17:20If, on the other hand, your parents have actively sabotaged your capacity to have

00:17:24a functional adulthood, that's even worse.

00:17:27Now, you're not just unprepared for the test,

00:17:30but people have beaten you up while you tried to study

00:17:33and now you're averse to the whole thing

00:17:35and you just feel like wretched and vomitous when it comes to approaching the test.

00:17:40In other words, you're not just unprepared,

00:17:41you've been brutalized into being averse to the test.

00:17:49Yeah, that was my experience.

00:17:51Yeah, and the amount of parental sabotage that goes on

00:17:55when parents have dysfunctional marriages in particular, dysfunctional relationships.

00:18:03Do you have siblings?

00:18:06I have half-siblings.

00:18:08Half-siblings.

00:18:09And where are you in the birth order?

00:18:10I assume older.

00:18:12I'm the oldest.

00:18:14You're the oldest.

00:18:15Okay, right.

00:18:16So, what kind of age gap is there between you and your half-siblings?

00:18:23The first one is six years and the other two are I think 17 and 19, something like that.

00:18:3217 and 19 years?

00:18:35Yes.

00:18:36One, I remember my mother had the child that was six years

00:18:42and then my father had the two others which are the 17 and 19 year difference.

00:18:51Wow, okay.

00:18:53Got it.

00:18:53So, you only have half-siblings, right?

00:18:58I only have half-siblings.

00:19:01Okay, got it.

00:19:01So, yeah, if the parents are dysfunctional, they will often cripple the children so that

00:19:09the children don't go off and leave them behind.

00:19:12If your father is really difficult to work with, he would certainly have an incentive

00:19:16to cripple your development from a social and economic and romantic standpoint so that

00:19:22you'll be stuck working with him, so to speak.

00:19:25He gets free labor.

00:19:27Yeah, he gets free labor or cheap labor or least reliable labor.

00:19:31By kind of sabotaging you.

00:19:34So, what did your parents do when you began to get really anxious about high school?

00:19:40My father, he ignored me and I remember in December of that year when that was that point

00:19:49that I was talking about where I started missing school and such, I went to him to talk about

00:19:57what was going on.

00:19:59And I remember because he, like I said, he owns his own business, it's a restaurant,

00:20:03and he would just spend all the time he could talking to his customers while I was waiting

00:20:09for him outside of the restaurant.

00:20:10I just remember sitting there for hours and for an hour at times and I went to him like

00:20:16multiple times to say, well, to have someone to talk to.

00:20:20Oh, and my mother, she had moved out of state and so I didn't speak to her too much until

00:20:38when I wanted to leave school.

00:20:39That was kind of more when we started talking again.

00:20:43Right, okay.

00:20:45So, your parents weren't helpful in your school anxiety, right?

00:20:51I, they weren't helpful with that.

00:20:53And I would say they were, at least they thought this way, they were never helpful with pretty

00:20:57much anything throughout my childhood.

00:20:59Okay.

00:21:00What about guidance counselors or anybody else, school nurse or anyone else who you

00:21:07might have been able to talk to about your anxiety?

00:21:11Go ahead.

00:21:13Sorry, I had a coach, my cross country and track coach.

00:21:19I could talk to him a little bit, but in general, I was very closed off at that time,

00:21:24very suspicious.

00:21:25And I was really bad at even communicating at the time, like worse than I am now.

00:21:31And so, like talking and having conversations with other people, especially if I was not

00:21:39too familiar with them was like, I would say it was almost impossible.

00:21:49Almost impossible is an oxymoron.

00:21:52It's a contradiction.

00:21:53It doesn't exist.

00:21:54If something's impossible, it's impossible.

00:21:57If it's almost impossible, it's possible, right?

00:22:00So, almost impossible is a way of saying, well, I can't claim I had no free will, but

00:22:05I'm going to pretend I had no free will.

00:22:09Right, my bad.

00:22:11And I would say it was like, yeah, I would say it was very,

00:22:18very difficult.

00:22:20Yeah, I get it.

00:22:21I get it.

00:22:22So, it was very hard.

00:22:23And listen, I obviously want to say how much I sympathize with your situation as a teenager.

00:22:30I really sympathize and I'm sorry.

00:22:32I'm really, obviously, hugely sorry and feel very sympathetic that you didn't get any

00:22:37good coaching or feedback.

00:22:39I mean, my daughter, she just recently turned 16 last month.

00:22:45And of course, you know, we've talked a lot about life and moving forward and she's,

00:22:51you know, getting close to adulthood and all that kind of stuff.

00:22:54So, she needs, you know, that kind of feedback, which is a different kind of thing than goes

00:22:57on when you're younger, instead of preparing your kids for adulthood.

00:23:02And it's a big job and it's a fun job, but it's very important.

00:23:05And I'm sorry that you didn't get that, for sure.

00:23:07And of course, what happened to you as a child is not your responsibility.

00:23:11But we're talking cusp of adulthood stuff.

00:23:13Now, you said that you were past 18.

00:23:16Did you lose a year or, I'm sorry if I don't know, but when I was a kid, there was still

00:23:21grade 13.

00:23:23And I worked night and day to get out of school as early as I could.

00:23:26So, I'm not sure, did you lose a grade or was there some reason you were in high school

00:23:31into adulthood?

00:23:33No, at least here in California, in the United States, people tend to finish high school

00:23:41either at 18, like the last few months of the high school.

00:23:48I turned 18 at the beginning.

00:23:51It's not too uncommon, but I feel like I was kind of lucky in that way, but it's not a

00:23:57neutral.

00:23:57You didn't lose a year, just it was the accident of birthdays or whatever it is that had you

00:24:01graduating as an adult.

00:24:04Exactly.

00:24:05So, you did not get help from anybody.

00:24:12You couldn't get it from your parents, and you didn't really get it from your coach,

00:24:15and you didn't talk to anyone else.

00:24:16Is that right?

00:24:18Yeah.

00:24:20Okay, and again, I understand it was really hard.

00:24:24So, then you didn't graduate and your father said, come work for me or I'm kicking you

00:24:30out, right?

00:24:32That's correct.

00:24:33All right, the way I was able to leave is my mom, like I mentioned before, she lived

00:24:40out of state, so she bought me a ticket and then told the school that I'm transferring

00:24:44to a school nearby her, and so they stopped threatening me with having the police come

00:24:52and take me to school every day.

00:24:55Now, that wasn't true, is that right?

00:24:59Well, they certainly made that threat.

00:25:02No, no, sorry.

00:25:03I'm sure it's true that they made that threat, but it wasn't true that your mother was

00:25:09transferring you to another school.

00:25:12She filed the paperwork, but I suppose it wasn't true.

00:25:18You suppose it wasn't true?

00:25:19Did you go to another school?

00:25:22No, I didn't go to another school when I arrived.

00:25:27Okay, so your mother lied for you to have you escape consequences, right?

00:25:33Yes.

00:25:35That's not very manly.

00:25:41And I say this as the son of a single mother who's gone through my whole share of

00:25:45emasculating things, but have mommy lie to the school so you don't have to finish high

00:25:50school is not the most noble thing.

00:25:54I mean, obviously, in hindsight, it wasn't very good for you, right?

00:25:57Yeah, I mean, I wasn't going to graduate anyways, I had I had failed the first semester

00:26:02and and failed the second semester.

00:26:06And they were like, oh, you're going to stay for summer school.

00:26:08And I was just like, no, I'm not.

00:26:11And I could have just said, hey, I'm 18.

00:26:14I'm signing myself out of high school.

00:26:16But my mom, I concocted this plan and I was just like, fuck it.

00:26:20I'm just going to do that.

00:26:21Like, I just I needed to get out of high school.

00:26:25I didn't go to the meeting that dictated the end of my high school career, which that was

00:26:30terrifying.

00:26:31And but I'm sorry, what I mean, I don't disagree with what was sorry, what was what was terrifying?

00:26:39Oh, they had a I had a meeting with the principal, the assistant principal, as well as all my

00:26:44teachers and my coach as well was there to talk about how I'm, you know, I'm failing

00:26:50high school.

00:26:50At least I don't know what the normal thing is, but that's what happened to me.

00:26:54Okay, got it.

00:26:55And you were failing because you just weren't showing up to classes and you weren't doing

00:26:59the work, right?

00:27:01Exactly.

00:27:03Okay, so you had a choice.

00:27:05And this is where discipline comes in.

00:27:07So discipline is not anti-hedonism.

00:27:10It's just hedonism in a longer time frame.

00:27:13So you had a choice and this is where discipline comes in.

00:27:17It's not anti-hedonism.

00:27:17It's just hedonism in a longer time frame.

00:27:20So for instance, I want to be strong and healthy when I get old.

00:27:26I've seen and most people have seen at some point in their life, they have seen the sickly

00:27:32ghoul like Cryptkeeper old people tottering around or, you know, the giant assed people

00:27:38wheeling around in their little battle tanks in Walmart or stuff like that, right?

00:27:42Now that could be both simultaneously sucks chunks and blows lard and I just don't want

00:27:48to live like that.

00:27:49So I'm hedonistic in that I want to have as much as I'm able to a sort of strong, robust

00:27:56and healthy old age.

00:27:58Now I'm, you know, I'm not way off from 60 and I can still sprint.

00:28:05I can still work out.

00:28:06I can still play tennis and I can hike all day.

00:28:10Like I'm, you know, doing all right.

00:28:11I'm doing all right.

00:28:12Now that's just hedonism in a longer time frame.

00:28:18So when it comes to discipline, people think that hedonism or pleasure and discipline are

00:28:23opposites.

00:28:24No, not at all.

00:28:27There's an old saying among the ladies who lunch, the rich wealthy socialites, they say

00:28:33nothing tastes as good as thin feels.

00:28:39Or they say, you know, once on the lips forever on the hips when it comes to a dessert, you

00:28:45do get to taste it once, but then it stays on your ass forever.

00:28:48Right?

00:28:49So discipline in a rational context is just hedonism pushed out into the future.

00:28:59Right?

00:29:01So you can go too far with that.

00:29:04So hedonism is when you take your pleasures now at the expense of pleasures later and

00:29:13discipline is when you get pleasures later at the expense of pleasures now.

00:29:19That's all it is.

00:29:20So they're both pleasure based mindsets.

00:29:23Hedonism is I'll take my pleasure now.

00:29:27Right?

00:29:27And discipline is I'll take my pleasures later.

00:29:33Right.

00:29:35So it's not now that there's some people who get they defer their pleasures too long.

00:29:41Right?

00:29:41In other words, they die with $10 million in the bank and never having done anything

00:29:46cool or bought anything cool or gone on any vacation or anything like that.

00:29:51Does that make sense?

00:29:52Yeah.

00:29:54So that to me is extending your discipline a little too far.

00:29:59You can have too much discipline and this can result in an eating disorder where you

00:30:03have anorexia nervosa or something like that where, you know, like it's just kind of out

00:30:09of whack.

00:30:09Right?

00:30:09So you can have too little discipline.

00:30:11You can have too much discipline.

00:30:12It's an Aristotelian mean.

00:30:14You can defer gratification all the time forever and ever.

00:30:18And that's called being an ascetic.

00:30:20It's like a monk who's like, well, I'll beat myself with ropes and starve myself,

00:30:24but I'll get the kingdom of heaven later.

00:30:26Well, I guess just as another kind of theological hedonism.

00:30:29Right?

00:30:31So discipline is not anti-pleasure.

00:30:35At least rational discipline is not at all anti-pleasure.

00:30:39Discipline is, I want a lot of pleasure.

00:30:43I want pleasure.

00:30:44Like for me, the time I spend exercising, which I don't particularly enjoy.

00:30:50I'm not like some, I guess some guys like moving heavy metal in a dark room.

00:30:55I'm not that guy.

00:30:57So I don't really enjoy exercise, but I enjoy the effects of exercise more than I dislike

00:31:06exercising.

00:31:08So when it comes to seeking pleasure, discipline is about seeking pleasure.

00:31:19It's just in a different timeframe than what you might be used to, if that makes sense.

00:31:26Now, the question then is what was happening in your life?

00:31:32Where you're kind of looking back over 10 years, and I think if I understand this correctly,

00:31:37you're sort of looking back over 10 years and you're saying,

00:31:40I wish I had made different decisions.

00:31:42Is that right?

00:31:47Would you repeat that again?

00:31:48I'm sorry.

00:31:50When you look back over the last 10 years, do you wish you had made different decisions?

00:31:57In the beginning, I would say in the beginning, the last three,

00:32:03like since I've found your show, let's say the last past five years,

00:32:08I'm not too dissatisfied.

00:32:12But the first, like from 18 to 24, I have many regrets.

00:32:19And I have slowly have less regrets after 24 to present.

00:32:23Okay, that's great to hear.

00:32:25All right, so let's just do a quick inventory then, right?

00:32:29So, do you have some reasonable measure of financial stability and security?

00:32:39Not yet.

00:32:40Okay.

00:32:42Do you have a sustained romantic relationship?

00:32:48I have one, and I haven't had one since.

00:32:51Well, no, then you don't have one now, right?

00:32:54I don't have one now.

00:32:55That's correct.

00:32:56Okay.

00:32:57What is the longest romantic relationship that you've had?

00:33:03I believe two years and a half.

00:33:06And when did that end?

00:33:10When I was 23, I could have been 22, but let's say 23.

00:33:16Okay, so that's a long ass time ago, right?

00:33:18Okay, so that's a long ass time ago, right?

00:33:21Yes.

00:33:22So you've been single for over half a decade?

00:33:25Correct.

00:33:27Okay.

00:33:28You don't have a meaningful career or a job, right?

00:33:31That's correct.

00:33:33Okay.

00:33:33What about a circle of good friends who can help encourage you to excellence?

00:33:39I don't have any good friends.

00:33:41Okay, so you've got no financial stability.

00:33:44You've got no girlfriend or prospect thereof.

00:33:47No wife, no kids, no good friendships, right?

00:33:54No savings.

00:33:55So things aren't going particularly well, right?

00:33:59No, things are going very badly.

00:34:01Okay, so how can you have fewer regrets when things are going worse?

00:34:09Well, because I'm aware of these things.

00:34:13Beforehand, it was just this ball of emotions and I had resigned myself.

00:34:19I just thought I was screwed.

00:34:21And I believed in family obligations, and thanks to I don't.

00:34:24And so I was in a very dark place in my mid-20s.

00:34:29And then having learned a lot of the philosophical points you've made about,

00:34:34you know, I don't have to be joined to the hip by my family of origin.

00:34:39It helped me to slowly, it gave me that necessary relief to keep going.

00:34:48Okay, and what is the status of your relationship with your family of origin at the moment?

00:34:54Well, I'm still living with some of them, but at least with my father,

00:35:00which I spent the most time in my 20s with, I'm away from him now.

00:35:03And that was a very important step for me.

00:35:07All right.

00:35:08And I'm sorry to hear that there's distance between you and your father,

00:35:10but it sounds like a decision I can completely understand.

00:35:14So who were you living with?

00:35:16My grandmother, from my mother's side.

00:35:19And this is on your mother's side.

00:35:21Okay, got it.

00:35:22Got it.

00:35:24Okay, and so what is the issue or the question that I can most help you with at the moment?

00:35:31I mean, now that we've done an inventory, I see why I have this like under, what do they call it?

00:35:50I see why I have this, I have this anxiety, this like persistent anxiety.

00:35:57But I'm not really sure what to ask.

00:36:01Okay, let me ask you this.

00:36:03Do you view your father as a hardworking man?

00:36:08I do.

00:36:09Okay.

00:36:10Do you view him as a, I don't mean self-disciplined, but in terms of his business

00:36:17work, do you view him as disciplined?

00:36:19Does he work hard even when he doesn't particularly want to?

00:36:23Yes, he, well, no, that's kind of difficult because he's more of a workaholic.

00:36:30And so I'm more efficient.

00:36:32No, but that's being disciplined in a way, right?

00:36:34I mean, he's still working hard, right?

00:36:36So here's one of the challenges that may be occurring for you.

00:36:41And if it doesn't, we can drop it.

00:36:43But one of the challenges that may be occurring to you is, it's the seeding of virtue to enemy

00:36:51territory.

00:36:52It's a seeding of essential territory to the enemy, right?

00:36:56So to speak.

00:36:57So if your father is disciplined and hardworking and you don't like your father, what they

00:37:05used to call throwing the baby out with the bathwater, oh, the bathwater's dirty, we're

00:37:08going to throw it out and the baby's in it, so we'll throw the baby out too.

00:37:11No, you throw out the bathwater and you keep the baby, right?

00:37:16You flush your poop, but you don't flush the toilet away as well, right?

00:37:21So if you look at your father, right, and you say, oh man, so that's what a hardworking,

00:37:30disciplined guy looks like.

00:37:32So hard work and discipline makes you an asshole, right?

00:37:38Like if your father was some drill instructor, right?

00:37:43You'd be like, damn, getting up early and exercising makes you into an asshole.

00:37:47So then what you say is, well, I don't want to be an asshole, so I better not work hard

00:37:52and be disciplined because look what that does to you.

00:37:55I'll give you an example from my own life.

00:37:58So my mother is very creative.

00:38:02I inherited some of my rational faculties from my father and some of my creative faculties

00:38:07from my mother.

00:38:07My mother is very creative.

00:38:10Now, my mother also is violent and crazed.

00:38:15Now, if I were to say, man, look what creativity does to you, man.

00:38:19It makes you unhinged and aggressive.

00:38:22Well, what would happen?

00:38:23Well, I would not want to express any creativity because it would be like the mark of the beast

00:38:29or something like that.

00:38:32Right.

00:38:32And my father was rational, but cold.

00:38:37And if I were to say, oh my gosh, well, if you're rational, you just become like Spock

00:38:42If you're rational, you just become like Spock.

00:38:44You become really awkward and I don't know, half autistic and weird and you can't connect

00:38:48with people and so on.

00:38:50Right.

00:38:50You kind of disappear up your own ass.

00:38:53Then I would say, well, I can't be overly rational because that makes you cold and weird

00:38:58like Dr. Spock or Mr. Spock from Star Trek.

00:39:02Right.

00:39:03So if I were to look at my mother and say, well, she owns the definition of creativity.

00:39:07I look up the word creativity and there's my mother.

00:39:09If I say, if I would look up the word rationality, there's my father.

00:39:12Well, I don't want to be like my mother and I don't want to be like my father.

00:39:18But if they own the definitions of reason and creativity, I'm screwed because I've given

00:39:27them the definitions.

00:39:29So I can't be those things because I don't want to be like them.

00:39:33Does that make sense?

00:39:34It does.

00:39:35So discipline, hard work, and so on.

00:39:38If you associate the toxic elements or your father's personality as being bound up in

00:39:45these traits, then you are going to veer away from these traits and your life will not succeed.

00:39:53Because in order to succeed in life, guess what?

00:39:55You need to be disciplined and hardworking.

00:39:57Right?

00:39:58Right.

00:39:59Right.

00:40:00There's nobody who succeeds who's not disciplined and hardworking.

00:40:06Well, also, it sounds like to me that now that you mentioned that, I did throw out the

00:40:11baby with the bathwater in particular with what is a job?

00:40:15How is it supposed to be?

00:40:16What's the work environment?

00:40:17What are the responsibilities?

00:40:20Because I was given a lot of responsibilities and no authority to do anything.

00:40:24I would be treated very poorly by some of my father's workers and I had no authority

00:40:29to be like, you know what?

00:40:30If you talk to me like that again, I'm going to speak to my father and I'm going to have

00:40:33you fired.

00:40:34My father had kept all these workers for decades and decades in which he, well, often in situations,

00:40:41he would side with the worker instead with me, even if I was treated badly.

00:40:44And he would get an ode with me.

00:40:45Oh, you're just causing trouble.

00:40:46And it's like, it was one of the situations where I was doing the right thing or I was

00:40:51looking out for my own interests, like with tips, for example, because I worked at a restaurant.

00:40:57And I was being, my dad would be very harsh with me about that.

00:41:03No, no, stop rocking the boat.

00:41:04Just I'll compensate you.

00:41:06Give them all the tips.

00:41:07And it's like, no, like I earned these two and that old deal doesn't matter anymore.

00:41:11I'm not a kid anymore.

00:41:13I deserve this now and I've earned it and I want it.

00:41:17And so I think with me, my dad owned the definition of what is a work environment.

00:41:23I'm not sure if that is compatible with your saying, but that in particular, you know,

00:41:28that sparked a thought in my mind.

00:41:31Okay.

00:41:31So people treated you badly in the restaurant, right?

00:41:34Yes.

00:41:35And your solution was to run to dad?

00:41:40No.

00:41:42That's what you said though.

00:41:43Hang on.

00:41:44Don't, don't gaslight me, bro.

00:41:46That's what you said.

00:41:48You said people would treat me badly and I had no authority over them.

00:41:51And I couldn't go to my father and say, I'm going to get you fired or something like that.

00:41:56Right?

00:41:58Um, well, that wasn't an option at all.

00:42:01Like I, I didn't have that.

00:42:03No, but it shouldn't be an option.

00:42:06Running to daddy to deal with coworkers is like running to mommy to deal with the school board.

00:42:12Well, at least maybe I, maybe I, well, I didn't mean it in that manner.

00:42:17I meant it as in like, my father would rather fire me than fire them.

00:42:23Even if they were in the wrong.

00:42:24It's not your father's job to make people treat you well.

00:42:30No, I'm not talking about treating well.

00:42:31I'm saying they were abusive towards me.

00:42:33They would, they would.

00:42:34Okay.

00:42:34It's not your father's job to prevent people from abusing you.

00:42:38Not when you become an adult.

00:42:41I'm talking about as a manager of his restaurant and employees,

00:42:46one employee harassing the other employee.

00:42:48Listen, bro.

00:42:49I worked in restaurants for many years.

00:42:51I did too.

00:42:53Okay.

00:42:54So if you want to tell me that the only way you can get treated with respect is to have

00:42:59your father threatened to people to get fired, you're kind of doomed.

00:43:03No, I didn't.

00:43:04Daddy ain't going to be around.

00:43:06Daddy is not going to be around.

00:43:07I didn't think.

00:43:08To do that for you your whole life.

00:43:09You have to listen.

00:43:10Do you want to keep talking while I'm talking?

00:43:12You want to try that?

00:43:12I'm sorry.

00:43:13I'm sorry.

00:43:14Okay.

00:43:14Let me finish.

00:43:15Right.

00:43:15Let me finish.

00:43:16Then I could be wrong, but let me finish.

00:43:18It's really kind of annoying to try and talk with people talking in your ear.

00:43:20All right.

00:43:22Is it your father's job to make sure for the rest of your life that you're treated with respect?

00:43:28No.

00:43:30Whose job is it to ensure that you're treated with respect?

00:43:33It's my own job.

00:43:35It is your own job.

00:43:38It is your own job.

00:43:40Okay.

00:43:41The fact that you want to run to daddy to deal with aggressive or abusive coworkers

00:43:47is probably one of the reasons why you were treated with disrespect.

00:43:50And I'm not blaming you.

00:43:52I'm just saying that that's the causality.

00:43:56I mean, there are lots of people in this world who are treated with respect,

00:43:59even when they don't have direct authority.

00:44:02Is that a fair statement?

00:44:04Yes, that is a fair statement.

00:44:06I mean, I don't have any authority over listeners.

00:44:10I hope that I treat them.

00:44:12We treat each other with mutual respect.

00:44:13I don't have any authority over my wife.

00:44:16I don't have any direct authority over my daughter, or my friends, right?

00:44:20But we treat each other with respect, right?

00:44:24Does that make sense?

00:44:25That does make sense.

00:44:27Okay.

00:44:27So the challenge is, and I understand why, because when you were a kid,

00:44:33it was your father's job to make sure you were treated with respect and to treat you with respect.

00:44:38But if your father treats you like shit,

00:44:40there's no way your co-workers are going to treat you well.

00:44:42Well, these co-workers I grew up with, like I would frequent the restaurant when I was a kid.

00:44:47I grew up with most of them and they treated me badly.

00:44:50I mean, my father's assistant and manager, I was terrified of them.

00:44:53I thought, even once he tried to-

00:44:55Okay, did you?

00:44:56Sorry, I don't feel like we're having a conversation.

00:44:58Did you hear what I said?

00:44:59I think you cut out.

00:45:00I'm sorry.

00:45:01Being honest, I think you cut out and that's why I didn't hear it.

00:45:04Okay, but if you didn't hear it, then tell me.

00:45:07Okay, so if your father treats you like crap, it's very likely your co-workers will treat you like crap.

00:45:13Yeah, that's correct.

00:45:14Because if your father is an abuser, let's say, if your father is abusive,

00:45:21then healthy people will not want to work with him.

00:45:26That's correct.

00:45:27So he's not going to have healthy people around.

00:45:30He's an abuser, he's going to hire abusers, and abusers are going to prey upon you.

00:45:36Yeah.

00:45:38So your father would not have, as an abuser himself and somebody who abused you,

00:45:44your father would not have interfered with other people abusing you.

00:45:48It's inevitable that he would fail to protect you and, in fact, put you in a situation of abuse.

00:45:55Does that make sense?

00:45:57It does, and that's what happened.

00:46:00It is your job to make sure that you are treated with respect.

00:46:06Yeah.

00:46:08And I say this because you're going to go and try and get a new job, right?

00:46:12Yes.

00:46:13Okay, and it is not anybody else's job to treat you with respect.

00:46:19It is your job to do your best to make sure you're treated with respect.

00:46:25Now, there are some people who are going to be assholes no matter what,

00:46:28and you just avoid those people.

00:46:30There are some people who are going to treat you well because of their own inner integrity,

00:46:34and you don't have to worry about those people.

00:46:38Right?

00:46:39It's like in business, there are some people who are going to cheat you no matter what.

00:46:42There are some people who are going to be honorable no matter what.

00:46:45It's the people in the middle that virtue is for.

00:46:49Okay.

00:46:51Because virtue will simply tell you to avoid the people who just are assholes,

00:46:55and virtue will tell you you don't really need to focus your attention on honorable people, right?

00:47:00Right.

00:47:01I don't wake up every morning saying,

00:47:02gee, I hope my wife doesn't divorce me and cheat on me and, you know, steal the silverware.

00:47:07Right?

00:47:08Yeah.

00:47:10So, virtue is for the people in the middle.

00:47:15Virtue is for the people who, if encouraged, will do the right thing,

00:47:21but don't have their own absolute internal integrity.

00:47:27Yeah, they go where the wind blows.

00:47:29And that's most of the people.

00:47:30Most of the people in the world.

00:47:31It's a bell curve, right?

00:47:32Most of the people are in the middle, and they will, sadly, I wish it wasn't this way,

00:47:39and I'm certainly working my ass off to try and make it not this way,

00:47:42but most people will follow your cues.

00:47:47Most people will not say, I should treat this person with respect,

00:47:52because he's a fellow human being who's had his own trials and tribulations,

00:47:55and I would want to be treated that way, and blah, blah.

00:47:57Most people don't do that.

00:47:58And most people aren't just automatic assholes, right?

00:48:02Right.

00:48:03Most people will judge you how.

00:48:07They don't have any internal moral standard,

00:48:09and they're not complete sociopaths.

00:48:11Most people will judge you how.

00:48:14On your own standards.

00:48:15On your own standards.

00:48:18Yeah, by how you judge yourself.

00:48:20Exactly.

00:48:21Most people will judge you by how you judge yourself.

00:48:27And most people respond to positive and negative stimuli,

00:48:32not to their conscience or their morality.

00:48:37I see.

00:48:38So, you have to be willing to apply positive rewards and negative stimuli

00:48:50in order to be treated with respect by most people.

00:48:56Right.

00:48:56Now, because your father applied negative stimuli,

00:48:59you probably associate that with being an asshole, but it's not.

00:49:04Yeah, that's right.

00:49:04So, for instance, a good manager,

00:49:07like Elon Musk obviously is a great manager, and he says,

00:49:10look, we don't have toxic people at Tesla.

00:49:12People don't pull their weight.

00:49:13People are difficult.

00:49:14We just fire them.

00:49:16So, he obviously pays people well,

00:49:18and then he fires people who perform badly or who are difficult.

00:49:21So, that's positive and negative stimuli.

00:49:24Right.

00:49:25Everything that works in your life is delivered by people

00:49:31who are willing to apply positive and negative stimuli.

00:49:34Because if they're not willing to apply positive and negative stimuli,

00:49:37stuff doesn't get made.

00:49:39The electricity doesn't work.

00:49:40The internet doesn't work, right?

00:49:42Computers don't work.

00:49:43Everything becomes Soviet crap.

00:49:46Sorry, go ahead.

00:49:46Oh, I just wanted to say that's what happened in my father's restaurant,

00:49:49and I started doing more and more work.

00:49:53The restaurant's closed now, but you're totally right.

00:49:59Right.

00:50:00So, in order to be treated with respect,

00:50:03you have to be able to apply positive and negative stimuli.

00:50:06And so, when I was in my sort of heyday on social media,

00:50:10I applied positive and negative stimuli.

00:50:15I mean, I did it within the bounds of honor and so on,

00:50:18but people who made good arguments, I would give them praise.

00:50:20People who made bad arguments, I would criticize.

00:50:24Sometimes I would make fun of them, right?

00:50:27Right.

00:50:27And sometimes I would mock them.

00:50:31And sometimes I would be sarcastic, right?

00:50:33So, that's positive and negative stimuli.

00:50:36And that's just the reality of the world that we live in,

00:50:40that most people, and of course school, and to some degree,

00:50:43religion has to do with this, positive and negative stimuli.

00:50:48Religion, for instance, does not view people as motivated by virtue,

00:50:52which is why there's heaven as the positive stimuli

00:50:54and hell as the negative stimuli.

00:50:58Most people don't have an internal work ethic,

00:51:01and so they have to be offered raises or being threatened with being fired.

00:51:08Now, the people you know who are operating beyond a positive and negative stimuli

00:51:13are those with FU money, right?

00:51:15So, Elon Musk clearly is not working because he's got bills to pay, right?

00:51:22I mean, the guy lives on people's couches

00:51:24and is worth hundreds of billions of dollars, right?

00:51:26Right, right.

00:51:28So, a movie star, you know, there are a couple of movie stars.

00:51:32I think Jim Carrey just did Sonic the Hedgehog 3

00:51:35because he says he needs some money,

00:51:37and Marlon Brando famously did roles in order to make money

00:51:42and really didn't give a shit about his art.

00:51:44But most movie stars who are worth a lot of money,

00:51:48like Tom Cruise is worth, what, like $400 million,

00:51:51and he'll still jump off buildings and shatter his stupid ankle

00:51:54because he wants to do some Mission Impossible thing, right?

00:51:57So, he's beyond positive and negative stimuli,

00:52:00which is why you want to try and be around the most successful people

00:52:03who are doing what they want out of passion, right?

00:52:06And the application of positive and negative stimuli

00:52:10is foundational to, you know, the whole question of deplatforming

00:52:13and what goes on in the world, right?

00:52:15Oh, if you talk about this topic, you know, you're going to lose your platform,

00:52:18you're going to lose your payments, you're going to do whatever, right?

00:52:20You lose your payment processing.

00:52:22So, that's just positive and negative stimuli.

00:52:24I'm sorry?

00:52:25Oh, I'm sorry. I said ostracism as well, as a negative stimuli.

00:52:31Ostracism is, yeah, ostracism is certainly part of it.

00:52:34Ostracism is different from deplatforming though.

00:52:36Ostracism is, I'm not going to interact with you.

00:52:40Deplatforming is, I'm going to make sure no one interacts with you,

00:52:43or, you know, the essential people and so on.

00:52:45That's a different matter of thing, right?

00:52:48So, breaking up with a girlfriend is saying,

00:52:50I don't want to date you anymore.

00:52:52But deplatforming is more like, and I'm going to get you fired,

00:52:56and I'm going to spread lies about you that you have herpes,

00:52:58and I'm going to make sure no one ever dates you again,

00:53:00and I'm going to stalk your social media.

00:53:02Like, then it turns kind of psycho-stalker, right?

00:53:04That's different from just ostracism, which is, I don't want to, right?

00:53:07But organizing that other people won't interact with you

00:53:10is a different kind of stalker-ish.

00:53:11Yeah, you're right.

00:53:14So, if you want to be treated with respect,

00:53:18then you have to be willing, sadly.

00:53:22It's just a fact, right?

00:53:23You have to be willing to apply positive and negative stimuli,

00:53:27and this is why bosses tend to get more respect, as you point out,

00:53:30because they can apply positive and negative stimuli.

00:53:32They can give people raises, and they can fire people.

00:53:34It's positive and negative stimuli.

00:53:37Now, please understand, I have no issue with giving people raises

00:53:40if they do a good job,

00:53:41and I have no issue with firing people if they do a bad job.

00:53:44That's fine.

00:53:46But the best motivations are the thing itself,

00:53:50not the raise or the working to avoid getting fired, right?

00:53:56Otherwise, people just do the bare minimum,

00:53:57and you end up in this kind of weird Soviet economy,

00:53:59or this Japanese zombie economy,

00:54:01where nobody gets fired and nobody really gets any raises either.

00:54:06So, in life as a whole, I think one of the reasons that you would have

00:54:11a difficulty going forward and getting work

00:54:14is you made some negative choices as a young man, right?

00:54:23And listen, I did too.

00:54:27Everybody has.

00:54:28You're not alone.

00:54:29And it's certainly nothing to be ashamed of,

00:54:31but we got to call it what it is.

00:54:34You not finishing high school was a bad decision.

00:54:37You say, oh, well, but I was so depressed.

00:54:39I was so...

00:54:39It was still avoidant.

00:54:42If somebody hit, like when you were down, really down,

00:54:44if somebody had offered you a million dollars

00:54:46to go to high school for the day, would you have gone?

00:54:49Yes.

00:54:50Okay, so you could do it.

00:54:52Yes, I agree.

00:54:53So, it's just a matter of motivation.

00:54:56So, all the people who say, well, I just can't work out.

00:54:58It's so boring.

00:54:59It's so this.

00:54:59It's like, okay, well, if somebody offered you a million dollars,

00:55:02would you go work out for a day?

00:55:03Yes.

00:55:05So, you can.

00:55:07Now, if somebody's dying of cancer,

00:55:09and somebody says, I'll give you a million dollars to be cancer-free,

00:55:12can they do that?

00:55:14No.

00:55:15No, they cannot do that.

00:55:16That's beyond their choice.

00:55:18Somebody gets their arm bitten off by some carcharodon carcharus,

00:55:22they can't be offered a million dollars.

00:55:23They can't get their arm back, right?

00:55:25Right.

00:55:27So, when you were in high school,

00:55:32you decided not to go.

00:55:36Now, the more you say to yourself, well, I just couldn't,

00:55:38and it was, I was so depressed.

00:55:39And so, that's bullshit.

00:55:41Because if somebody had offered you a million dollars,

00:55:43you'd have gone, right?

00:55:45Yeah, no, you're right.

00:55:46Yeah.

00:55:46So, the million dollars is your motivation.

00:55:51Yeah.

00:55:53So, just imagine somebody's offering you a million dollars.

00:56:00I mean, Jim Carrey, when he was younger,

00:56:02he wrote a $10 million check to himself saying,

00:56:04I'm going to make this in a movie one day.

00:56:05Now, of course, it's not magical.

00:56:07He's also very talented and good looking,

00:56:08nice head of hair and all that.

00:56:10So, good for him.

00:56:11But there is that visualization aspect, right?

00:56:14Right.

00:56:15The moment you say to yourself, you can't, you're right.

00:56:20But there's no need to be.

00:56:22If you say to yourself, I just, I cannot go to school.

00:56:26I can't.

00:56:26You said this earlier.

00:56:27I can't.

00:56:28They wanted to send me to summer school.

00:56:30I can't go to summer school.

00:56:31Bullshit.

00:56:34Of course, you can go to summer school.

00:56:36Of course, you could have finished high school.

00:56:40Yeah, you're right.

00:56:41Because if somebody had offered you a million dollars,

00:56:42you damn well would have done it.

00:56:44So, don't try and hide among the people dying of cancer saying,

00:56:47I don't have any more free will than they do.

00:56:53Right?

00:56:54Right. Yeah, yeah.

00:56:55Somebody gets pushed out of a plane and you offer them a million dollars not to fall.

00:56:59They can't take your money, right?

00:57:02Yeah.

00:57:04When you go back, and this is my concern, when you said, well, my regrets are lower now.

00:57:08No, no, no.

00:57:09Regrets are when you forgot the million dollar pile of free will

00:57:13that's accessible to you anytime you want it.

00:57:16I was just about to say that.

00:57:17Yeah.

00:57:19So, you go back and you say, well, I couldn't, and I was this, and I was so that,

00:57:22and I'm down, and depressed, and anxious, and I'm overwhelming, and blah, blah, blah.

00:57:26Listen, please, I'm not a tough guy this way.

00:57:29I totally sympathize.

00:57:30I really do.

00:57:33I mean, there have been times when I haven't wanted to get out of bed and do a show.

00:57:38Wow.

00:57:39So, I get that, and I really say, I'm not like how, you know,

00:57:42that's bullshit, that the feelings, that the feelings are real, and they're important.

00:57:47But don't you dare lie to yourself and say you couldn't.

00:57:53Yeah, you're right.

00:57:55Because when you're on your deathbed, and you look back, and you're like gonna die, you know,

00:58:02next month, next week, next Tuesday, tomorrow morning, this morning, one hour, half an hour.

00:58:13I think we get a countdown in our minds, for most people.

00:58:18So, when you're fading out at the age of 90, or some sort of ghoul-enabled Jimmy Cotter age,

00:58:26Now, all we gotta do is die.

00:58:32Everything else is a choice.

00:58:36Would you sit there and say, well, I'm dying.

00:58:40The doctors can't save me.

00:58:41They're just making me comfortable.

00:58:44It's just, I'm winding down.

00:58:45Ticker's dying.

00:58:46Lungs are fading.

00:58:48Everything's falling apart.

00:58:49Everything's going dark.

00:58:51I'm never getting out of this bed again.

00:58:52Would you look back and say, well, there's just no way I could have gone to summer school.

00:59:00No, I wouldn't.

00:59:01No, there's no way you're getting out of your deathbed.

00:59:03But there's a damn way you could have gone to summer school.

00:59:06With all the sympathy of your bad childhood, and this is the combo, right?

00:59:10Some people are too much sympathy, and then that turns into excuses.

00:59:14And some people are too much discipline without the sympathy.

00:59:17I bring both.

00:59:18I really sympathize with your childhood.

00:59:19It was wretched, awful, and horrible.

00:59:22Awful and horrible, it sounds like.

00:59:25But I cannot, I cannot extend to you the no free will thing.

00:59:33Yeah, you're right.

00:59:34The language was false.

00:59:35Yeah, so when you said, well, I couldn't get people to respect me because my father wouldn't

00:59:41fire them, that's saying that you have no choice to get people to treat you with respect.

00:59:47And the only way you can get people to treat you with respect is to get your father to

00:59:51threaten them.

00:59:53Yeah.

00:59:55But that is bypassing the central fact that for most people, for most people,

01:00:03they will judge you how you judge yourself.

01:00:06And that is not a bad standard, I'm telling you.

01:00:10I mean, I wish everyone had the whole internal morality and integrity thing, I get that.

01:00:16But it's not a terrible standard to say that I'm going to judge you by how you judge yourself.

01:00:22So, if you go into a job interview and, you know, you're standing up straight,

01:00:28you extend your arm, you give a firm handshake, you keep eye contact, right?

01:00:33What does that say?

01:00:35Um, it says I'm confident and I'm enthusiastic to be there.

01:00:40Yeah, I'm confident.

01:00:42I know I provide value.

01:00:43If you ask questions back and say, tell me about the culture, I want to make sure it's a good fit.

01:00:48You know, tell me about the salary and have you checked to see if it's market competitive

01:00:53or whatever it is you're going to say in a job interview.

01:00:55You're saying, look, I'm looking for a good fit.

01:01:00I'm not desperate.

01:01:01I'm not starving.

01:01:02I'm not begging for a job.

01:01:06I'm looking for a good fit.

01:01:06Same thing happens in the dating market, right?

01:01:09I mean, I'm sure you've seen over the course of your life.

01:01:12We all have.

01:01:13You've seen some girl, you know, with the hunched shoulders staring down at her belly button,

01:01:18maybe some oddly colored hair, some giant freaky glasses and just, you know,

01:01:25walking around like she's half bent over question mark clamshell stuff, right?

01:01:30Yeah, I've seen that.

01:01:31Now, you judge that woman as being very insecure, right?

01:01:36I would, yeah.

01:01:38Right.

01:01:40And you'd be right.

01:01:44Yeah.

01:01:44Because she is.

01:01:48On the other hand, if there's some guy who's, you know, some big swinging dick,

01:01:52half silverback jerkwad who's like comes in and is so totally loud and flops down on the couch

01:01:58and spreads his legs and, you know, kicks over your drink and like, okay, that's a little

01:02:02hysterically over alpha douchebag, right?

01:02:07Yeah.

01:02:08So that's too much confidence, right?

01:02:12So if you don't feel that you can encourage people to treat you with respect,

01:02:25then people generally will not treat you with respect.

01:02:29Yeah.

01:02:30And I've felt as I've gotten older and listened to the show in the beginning,

01:02:35it felt as if it was impossible.

01:02:37And then now it's just more like precarious and I'm uncertain if people

01:02:41can treat me with respect and that.

01:02:43It feels like a con job, right?

01:02:44Like I feel everybody gets that frauditis, I used to call it in the business world, right?

01:02:48Like I ran a whole software company and I'd never taken a computer science class,

01:02:53right?

01:02:53So I programmed all the software.

01:02:55I was self-taught, right?

01:02:56And so on, right?

01:02:58Oh, yeah.

01:02:58And of course, I don't have a PhD in philosophy from Stanford or Harvard,

01:03:02right?

01:03:02Or anything sort of nonsense, right?

01:03:03So I get that, right?

01:03:05But here's the thing.

01:03:07Most people try to conserve as many resources as possible, right?

01:03:13Which is why you will order pizza rather than walk to go and get the pizza, right?

01:03:19Because you want to save all of those calories and all of that energy.

01:03:22So here's the fact.

01:03:23The fact of the matter is that treating people with respect

01:03:27is more work than treating them with disrespect.

01:03:31And why is that?

01:03:33Because you have to negotiate.

01:03:35Oh, yeah.

01:03:36If you treat people with disrespect, just tell them what the hell to do and snap at

01:03:41them where they don't and they'll just do it, right?

01:03:43Yeah.

01:03:43Scare them shitless and they'll just do what you want.

01:03:46Intimidate them, bully them, and they'll just do what you want.

01:03:49And you don't have to spend all of this pissy energy with this back and forth negotiating

01:03:53bullshit, right?

01:03:54Right.

01:03:55It is energy efficient to be a bully.

01:04:00Yeah, I see that.

01:04:02I sit around in my family, especially over the holidays, and we're all like,

01:04:05well, what do you want to do?

01:04:06Well, I don't know.

01:04:07I've thought of this.

01:04:07Well, what do you want?

01:04:08We're all negotiating to try and find the best thing for us to do.

01:04:11And we'll sometimes spend half an hour trying to figure out what to do,

01:04:15and then we'll hit on something.

01:04:16Oh, yeah.

01:04:16And we all want to do it, right?

01:04:18That sounds wonderful.

01:04:19Yeah, well, it is, but it's time consuming, right?

01:04:22Whereas if I was just some, I don't know, a-hole patriarch, right?

01:04:26I'd just be like, okay, we're going to do this, right?

01:04:27And then we would line up everyone.

01:04:28We're going to, right?

01:04:29I'm sure your dad was a little bit like that as well.

01:04:32It's just very energy efficient to be authoritarian.

01:04:38Yeah, my father was just-

01:04:39There's this old saying about Mussolini, right?

01:04:41At least he made the trains run on time.

01:04:42I'm so sorry.

01:04:43Go ahead.

01:04:43I wanted to mention with my father being authoritarian,

01:04:46he was kind of more like on, I would say, kind of like the communists were,

01:04:49where it's like that soft core authoritarian,

01:04:52where manipulative and as well as antagonistic.

01:04:55And that was something that took me a while to really understand

01:04:57how bad my childhood was,

01:04:59because it was a lot of gaslighting and manipulation.

01:05:03And then because my father had a reputation to maintain with his restaurant,

01:05:08it's like I felt this really hard pressure.

01:05:10It's like, do not fuck his reputation,

01:05:13because not only my father was the breadwinner,

01:05:16so it's like that would just screw me over,

01:05:18but also financially as a kid.

01:05:21But also too, it's just I did not want to upset my father

01:05:25and, so to speak, rock the boat.

01:05:27It was a very tense, especially when I was younger,

01:05:32it was very tense.

01:05:32And then as I got older and my father could exploit me for work at the restaurant,

01:05:38it changed and such.

01:05:41Right.

01:05:42So, I mean, when it comes to, say, de-platforming me,

01:05:46is it easier for people to call me a bigot and a racist or whatever,

01:05:51and then just get me shut down?

01:05:53Or is it easier for them to study all of the history, philosophy, biology,

01:06:02like I interviewed 17 subject matter experts in the field of human intelligence

01:06:06and variances and so on, right?

01:06:08Is it easier to just call me names in terms of energy,

01:06:13or is it easier to debate me and prove me wrong?

01:06:18It's easier to call you names.

01:06:20Sure, sure.

01:06:21So, it's energy efficient, right?

01:06:23Right.

01:06:24If you want to shut me up, you can either find ways to prove me wrong

01:06:29and then wreck my reputation because I'm an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about,

01:06:34or you can just call me names.

01:06:36Get me de-platformed and it's way more energy efficient.

01:06:40Yeah, lying is energy efficient as well.

01:06:44Right.

01:06:44I mean, this is why in the animal kingdom, frankly, there's a lot of rape.

01:06:49Because in the animal kingdom, not that it's rape, but it's not necessarily the most consensual.

01:06:55I think dolphins are quite non-consensual in their sexual activity, and tragically,

01:07:00and obviously it's evil for human beings, but in the animal kingdom, it's whatever, right?

01:07:06It's not as complicated as wooing, so to speak, right?

01:07:10Right.

01:07:10So, but recognizing self and other and negotiating to mutual benefit,

01:07:19you know, is it easier to sit down with a bunch of your workers and negotiate a good contract,

01:07:24or is it easier from a sort of energy standpoint in the short run to just have slaves

01:07:29that you beat if they don't do exactly what you want?

01:07:33Right.

01:07:34So, when you're saying, treat me with respect, you're saying to people,

01:07:39I want you to expend a lot more energy in your relationship with me.

01:07:45Right.

01:07:47Now, people basically, because they don't have a lot of internalized ethics, they say,

01:07:51wait, why should I?

01:07:54Yeah, yeah, and they judge me, yeah.

01:07:56Well, instead of saying, somebody's just driving to work, right?

01:07:59Takes them half an hour to drive to work, you're saying to them,

01:08:02oh, you should come and pick me up, even though it's 15 minutes out of your way.

01:08:06And then instead of half an hour, it's an hour, right?

01:08:1015 minutes to get me, 15 minutes to get back, half an hour to drive.

01:08:12And people are saying, wait, you're asking me to expend more energy on your behalf?

01:08:18Yeah.

01:08:19But it's the same thing with asking for respect.

01:08:21You're asking people to expend more energy on your behalf.

01:08:29Right.

01:08:30And the question is, why?

01:08:32Why should people expend more energy on your behalf by treating you with respect?

01:08:35Now, again, I understand the internal ethics and motivations and virtues, blah, blah, blah,

01:08:40but that's not where the world is, right?

01:08:43Right.

01:08:45So, how do you get people to want to expend more energy on your behalf,

01:08:49and it feels like it's costing them energy, and it feels like it's benefiting you?

01:08:55You provide something that benefits them.

01:08:59Okay, and what's that?

01:09:01Um, I can't think of a principle, but I don't really have a good answer.

01:09:10But what did you have?

01:09:11It's not easy, right?

01:09:13Yeah, it's definitely, it depends on the situation.

01:09:17Maybe you start showing some camaraderie, so they feel like, oh, I'm on their side.

01:09:24There could also be monetary.

01:09:27Like, maybe what I start doing is inviting them to lunches if they're willing to pick me up,

01:09:33and I also pay for gas or something, you know.

01:09:36Well, waiters, like with waiters, to use a restaurant scenario,

01:09:39generally, the more expensive the restaurant, the better the waiters, right?

01:09:43Yeah, exactly.

01:09:44So, in that case, the waiter is treating you with more respect, right?

01:09:48But you're paying the waiter more, right?

01:09:51You're buying respect, right?

01:09:53And movie stars get paid a lot because they will treat the audience with respect

01:09:57and do a really good job.

01:09:59They won't half-ass it, for the most part, right?

01:10:01So, you have to, for the most part, you have to bribe or threaten people

01:10:07into treating you with respect.

01:10:09I know it's bad, you know, and we're just talking about professional stuff, right?

01:10:13Your personal relationships, it's not what you want, right?

01:10:17Right, right.

01:10:18So, in general, the way that I have done it, is the principle I've talked about from the

01:10:22beginning, treat people the very best you can the first time you meet them, and after

01:10:27that, treat them as they treat you.

01:10:29So, I extend courtesy, dignity, respect, blah, blah, blah, first time interacting with someone.

01:10:33If they then turn out to be, you know, kind of a manipulative jerk, then gloves are off.

01:10:40Right, and then it's win-lose.

01:10:42Well, then it's just like, okay, well, if you're not somebody who respects me,

01:10:46well, if you're not somebody who responds to being treated well, then you have outed

01:10:51yourself as a stimulus response person, and I'm not going to treat you any differently

01:10:55from that.

01:10:56I'm not going to have my internal system of ethics dictate how I do things, right?

01:11:02So, I've mentioned this story before, so I'll keep it very brief.

01:11:05In one of the businesses I was hired into as an executive, I had my number two guy was

01:11:13really disrespectful.

01:11:15Huh.

01:11:16And, you know, like in front of the entire team, when I was questioning or opposing

01:11:20something, he said, he's like, yeah, really, you're really pissing me off, man.

01:11:24You know, just like, it's like, that's not how you talk to really anyone in business,

01:11:27right?

01:11:27I mean, if you've got an issue, you take it behind closed doors and work it out, and

01:11:31he was just difficult and becoming, I just knew, like I just knew this was going to be

01:11:36a conflict.

01:11:36So, I went to my boss and said, I want to fire this guy, and he's like, no, no, no,

01:11:40he's been here for a long time, he's integral and so on.

01:11:42I'm like, yeah, but, you know, he made the QA girl cry, he's, you know, a QA woman cry,

01:11:47and he's really disrespectful and kind of hostile, and you can feel this, you know,

01:11:51and you feel that ugly temper in the room and so on, right?

01:11:53Oh, yeah.

01:11:54So, my boss was like, give it a little bit of time, blah, blah, blah.

01:11:56So, I gave it a bit more time, and then I asked again, and I said, look, if I'm the

01:11:59boss, I got to be able to fire the people, right?

01:12:01It's like, well, you know, we're more of a family here.

01:12:03I'm like, okay, so, but it wasn't someone who was going to respond to a virtue.

01:12:11So, we were just in a meeting with the senior management, and this guy was there,

01:12:17and I just provoked him until he blew up, and then I didn't even have to fire him.

01:12:22My boss fired him, right?

01:12:25So, I mean, I'm just, you know, I would treat, if you're trapped in treating everyone like

01:12:31they're rational, you can't get anything done, because most people are not.

01:12:34Most people are stimulus response.

01:12:37Yeah.

01:12:38So, treat people the best you can, and after that, treat them as they treat you.

01:12:45And sometimes, honestly, sometimes I've been five or ten years between stimulus and response.

01:12:50Like, I remember this in the business world.

01:12:52Like, people who crossed me, you know, in a fairly small industry, which was the environmental

01:12:56software industry back then, in a fairly small industry, you keep running into the same people.

01:13:01Right.

01:13:02And if someone had screwed me, sooner or later, like, I was going to be in some position over

01:13:11them.

01:13:11I don't mean necessarily their boss, but it would be something to do with a customer,

01:13:15a client, or a recommendation.

01:13:17Because if our software didn't meet a particular client's requirements, I would suggest someone

01:13:22else who did, right?

01:13:23Because you gain credibility that way, and it's being more objective, right?

01:13:26Even if it was a competitor who did something better than we did, I'd say, no, if you're

01:13:29really looking for this, these are your guys, not us, right?

01:13:31And so, if somebody screwed me, I would just find ways to drop hints that this was not

01:13:36the most ethical business situation.

01:13:38This was not the most ethical business person.

01:13:41And I think I probably torpedoed at least two or three companies that way.

01:13:45And sometimes you just have to be patient and so on, right?

01:13:48But when you're with moral people, you deal with them in a moral manner.

01:13:52When you're with amoral people, you deal with them in an amoral manner.

01:13:56And that's the most rational and productive thing to do.

01:13:59Like, when you're with a little kitty cat, you pet it.

01:14:04And when you're not with a little kitty cat, and you're the big tiger, then you get inside

01:14:08the van, right?

01:14:12So, if you have that kind of permission, then you can be confident.

01:14:16But if you're trapped in, well, everyone has to treat me with dignity, and I have to treat

01:14:19everyone with dignity, and everyone has to respect me, and I have to respect everyone,

01:14:23you're trapped.

01:14:24And you can't actually achieve anything positive in this world, because that's not how most

01:14:28people operate.

01:14:29That was my situation.

01:14:31You're spot on when it comes to that.

01:14:33And thank you for the example, too.

01:14:35And then you just get, you get hurt and you get upset.

01:14:37And I understand that.

01:14:38I really do.

01:14:39But to me, listen, there's nothing wrong, you know, man to man, right?

01:14:44We just, let's bro it up for a second here.

01:14:46Let's sausage fest it, right?

01:14:48There's nothing wrong with a little old-fashioned combat, is there?

01:14:52I agree.

01:14:52Have an enemy and fight your enemy.

01:14:56No, I definitely agree nowadays.

01:14:59Oh, yeah.

01:14:59And if it takes a while to get someone fired, or it takes a while to get someone to lose

01:15:04credibility, take your time.

01:15:08Yeah.

01:15:08It's no rush.

01:15:09You know, revenge is a dish best served cold.

01:15:14And it's masculine and healthy to say, hey, treat me well, I'll treat you well.

01:15:20Treat me badly, gloves are off, let's roll.

01:15:23Oh, yeah.

01:15:24You know, we are still men who fought guerrillas.

01:15:29We are still men who fought other men.

01:15:31We are still men who have drawn swords in our history.

01:15:37And that's part of us.

01:15:38Now, we want to keep it civilized and peaceful and so on.

01:15:42But no, have your enemies and work for their downfall.

01:15:46And the funny thing is, is that when you have that air, you actually develop fewer enemies.

01:15:53I can believe that, yeah.

01:15:54I can believe that.

01:15:55Because people will be like, okay, he's got a bit of a hardness to him, he's got a bit

01:15:59of an edge to him.

01:16:00Well, I would imagine the way you move and interact as well, just like non-verbally,

01:16:05just gives you that cue.

01:16:07It's like, oh, he's gonna, if I mess with him, he's gonna get me back.

01:16:11Like, he doesn't, so to speak, fuck around.

01:16:13Yeah, you get a reputation.

01:16:14So, if all you do is cling to, and I hate to say cling to, that's really Becky the question.

01:16:19But if all you do is overly attached to, well, everyone owes me respect, and if I don't get

01:16:25respect, I'm helpless.

01:16:26I have to run to dad, right?

01:16:28No, if people don't give you respect, if the people treat you badly, then, you know, you

01:16:36could try and reason with them.

01:16:37You could try and argue with them.

01:16:38You could try and argue with them.

01:16:40Then, you know, you could try and reason with them.

01:16:43You can try.

01:16:44No, but if they're committed to treating you badly, then they're your enemy, so you work

01:16:49for their downfall.

01:16:51Yeah.

01:16:52That's healthy.

01:16:56I would love it if we could negotiate and reason with everyone.

01:17:01I mean, that's what I'm aiming for, but that's not the world we live in.

01:17:05Agreed.

01:17:10If you have the confidence of knowing that your security and your strength is not dependent

01:17:15upon the goodwill of others, right?

01:17:17This is a terrifying line in a play, Streetcar Named Desire, where the crazy woman says,

01:17:23whoever you are, I've always relied on the kindness of strangers.

01:17:27It's like, well, you can't move through life relying on the kindness of strangers.

01:17:31You've got to have some balls and biceps.

01:17:36Yeah, especially as men.

01:17:37I'm not saying you don't, right?

01:17:39But you've got to have a little bit of that Conan spirit, a little bit of that Glintide

01:17:45devil in you.

01:17:47Because if you're just rolling through life, crossing your fingers that everyone treats

01:17:50you well, I mean, you're just going to get rolled.

01:17:54Oh, yeah.

01:17:58You should watch, follow this woman.

01:17:59I think her name is Dr. Karen Mitchell on X.

01:18:03She does really great dives into the psychopaths, the sociopaths, the dark triad personalities,

01:18:09and so on.

01:18:10And her estimates of their prevalence in the population as a whole is north of 10%.

01:18:16Oh, wow.

01:18:18So you're just going to run into these people, and they're more on the edges,

01:18:20and more in the extreme cases, and so on, right?

01:18:22But if you are sailing through life, crossing your fingers that you're going to be meeting

01:18:35only moral people, then it's going to be very hard for you to gain any security or stability.

01:18:47Yeah, I agree.

01:18:49So if you say, listen, I definitely want to, and it's all just about giving yourself

01:18:54permission, giving yourself permission to have enemies, it's fine.

01:19:00That's life.

01:19:00There's good and evil people in the world.

01:19:01There's good and bad people.

01:19:02There's right and wrong people.

01:19:10And giving yourself permission to have enemies and to not feel bad if you work against them.

01:19:14And of course, obviously, I'm not talking about anything that violates the law.

01:19:17Anything that violates the non-aggression principle, or fraud, or anything like that.

01:19:21Right, right.

01:19:28I mean, the guy I got fired, and this happened on more than one occasion.

01:19:31This is the one that's just the most vivid.

01:19:33But yeah, the guy I got fired, I mean, he literally put me down as a reference.

01:19:37I couldn't believe it.

01:19:39Oh, really?

01:19:39You couldn't believe it?

01:19:40Yeah, I couldn't believe it.

01:19:42Oh, man.

01:19:44I mean, to me, that's hilarious.

01:19:45Well, and, but if you're like, well, you know, you either get overly angry, right?

01:19:51Or you just overly have a pushover.

01:19:53But yeah, the guy put me down as a reference.

01:19:55I was like, amazed.

01:19:56I'm like, well, you know, he may get a job, but it sure as hell won't be because of me.

01:20:03Mad respect for that.

01:20:05Well, and it's just self-respect, though, right?

01:20:08I mean, I gave him every opportunity to be reasonable and so on.

01:20:13And if people choose that path, it's like, hey, man, I mean, I wish you didn't.

01:20:21But you did.

01:20:22And now we're enemies, and you got to give yourself permission to be a hard ass.

01:20:29It doesn't do virtue any service at all to just wander through the world like everyone's

01:20:36already virtuous because they're not.

01:20:38We become virtuous for the same reason that doctors become doctors.

01:20:44It's because there are sick people in the world.

01:20:47And there are evil people in the world.

01:20:48And I tell you this, man, sure as shit, they're working for your downfall.

01:20:53Yeah, no, I know that intimately.

01:20:54Like, the example just escaped me, sorry.

01:21:01Well, no, I'm sure we can all think back on this.

01:21:04But yeah, give yourself permission to have enemies, give yourself permission to tell

01:21:08the truth, and give yourself permission to work for the downfall of people who are corrupt

01:21:17or immoral.

01:21:20And do it smart and be careful, obviously.

01:21:22Yeah.

01:21:23And you'll find very quickly that people will sense that about you and treat you a

01:21:28whole lot better.

01:21:30Yeah.

01:21:32Yeah, no, I completely agree.

01:21:36And it helps a lot because, well, for me, like in the past, I was convinced by others

01:21:48that I overreacted.

01:21:50Now that I look back on it, it wasn't an overreaction.

01:21:52It's just they didn't like it that I was establishing boundaries and I was serious

01:21:56about it.

01:21:58Well, just remember, people used to fight duels at dawn.

01:22:02What do you mean by that?

01:22:03Well, I mean, in the past, if someone pissed you off, you'd slap their face with a glove

01:22:08and it would be pistols at dawn and one of you would get fucking shot.

01:22:13Oh, yeah, I get what you mean now.

01:22:15Yeah, yeah.

01:22:17Of course, I'm not recommending that or endorsing that as a solution.

01:22:20But what I am saying is that for males, having enemies in particular and working for their

01:22:26downfall is healthy.

01:22:30If you're virtuous, it's good for the world, too.

01:22:35Yeah.

01:22:41Now, does that mean you'll win every time?

01:22:43No.

01:22:44I mean, I'd be the last guy to say that.

01:22:46But you win in terms of your conscience, right?

01:22:48I mean, have I won against anyone?

01:22:51Have I won against everyone who's ever crossed me and put me down?

01:22:54No, of course not.

01:22:55Because, you know, you can't win every time.

01:22:59But I have sort of emerged into a life that is joyful and full of love and great friendships

01:23:07and great relationships.

01:23:08And I mean, I've won in a pretty existential way, I would say.

01:23:12Yeah, and to add-

01:23:13But that doesn't mean that you win every battle.

01:23:15Sorry, go ahead.

01:23:16Oh, apologies.

01:23:18And winning at all costs is also, I realize it's a bad idea, especially when I was an adult.

01:23:24You know, there are kind of limitations.

01:23:27You know, like, for example, the non-aggression principle, that's a limitation.

01:23:31But it's better to do that than not.

01:23:36Yeah, I mean, look, again, I'm talking about honorable ways of having enemies and

01:23:41just telling the truth.

01:23:42I mean, with people I fired, I never lied about why I fired them, but I never sugar-coated it,

01:23:47either.

01:23:49Just tell the truth.

01:23:50And it's okay.

01:23:52It's okay and healthy to be pissed off at people.

01:23:55It's okay and healthy to apply, you know, peaceful, benevolent, negative stimuli, like

01:24:01bad references if somebody wants a job.

01:24:06Oh, yeah.

01:24:07And yeah, I had a guy who asked me to get him an interview, and it was an acquaintance.

01:24:15And I'm like, yeah, seems like a nice enough guy.

01:24:16So I got him an interview for a job, and he didn't show up.

01:24:22And that's bad for me, because it looks like I'm no judge of character.

01:24:28And I wasted the manager's time for him setting up an interview.

01:24:31And, you know, what happens to the next guy I recommend to that manager?

01:24:34Like, it's just bad all around, right?

01:24:36Now, I get it.

01:24:37Shit happens in life, you know, but, you know, the guy didn't call up.

01:24:40He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I guess I just forgot.

01:24:43You know, one of these, like, non-explanations that just is like, okay.

01:24:48So then, you know, the guy's like, you know, hey, man, but if you could set me up again,

01:24:51I'd be like, nope, no, not gonna.

01:24:55Yeah.

01:24:56Right?

01:24:56So I'm like, he wasn't my enemy or anything like that, but it's like negative consequences.

01:25:00If I set you up for an interview, you move heaven and earth to get there.

01:25:03And if you don't, I'm never doing it again.

01:25:07Right.

01:25:11And that's healthy, because the guy shouldn't get all these.

01:25:14I mean, if it was some 17-year-old kid, maybe, or whatever, right?

01:25:17But this guy was in his late 20s or whatever, right?

01:25:19Yeah, I can.

01:25:20So, yeah, it's okay to have standards.

01:25:25It's okay to spit a little piss and vinegar.

01:25:27It's okay to have a little fire in the belly.

01:25:29And it's okay to have people you dislike and to either work against them or to fail to

01:25:40support them.

01:25:40And that's perfectly fine.

01:25:42It's perfectly healthy.

01:25:43And you'll find if you apply that in general, that you'll be treated a whole lot better

01:25:48in the long run.

01:25:49Because you are aligned with reality.

01:25:52And the reality is, if you're a baby zebra, you don't assume that every weird smell and

01:25:58moving piece of grass is just some buffalo crap and some wind.

01:26:05No, sometimes it's a lion.

01:26:08Right.

01:26:09And you've got to adjust yourself accordingly.

01:26:14Thank you, Steph.

01:26:15You really made it clear also, at least in my mind, how what we just talked about was

01:26:21very difficult for me.

01:26:22Because the people that were bad and I disliked the most were my parents.

01:26:30And being a child, I mean, that's really tough to navigate, especially.

01:26:34It is.

01:26:35And massive sympathies.

01:26:36If you weren't taught Japanese, learning Japanese is really hard.

01:26:39And I really sympathize with that.

01:26:40And look, you're a great young man and obviously very intelligent.

01:26:44I really appreciate that you listen to the show and that you are the first caller in

01:26:49the new year, in the 20th year of the show.

01:26:52So massive respect and massive sympathies to you.

01:26:56And you did a great job over the course of the convo.

01:26:59And I really do appreciate that as well.

01:27:01Thank you, Steph.

01:27:02And to many more years.

01:27:05All right, man.

01:27:06Thank you so much.

01:27:06Now I have, believe it or not, a social engagement, which I am going to get myself ready for.

01:27:12Really do appreciate everyone for listening to the show.

01:27:15Freedomain.com to help out would be hugely appreciated.

01:27:19Thank you, everyone, so much.

01:27:20Lots of love from up here, my friends.

01:27:22We will talk soon.

01:27:23Bye.

Category

Transcript

Recommended