Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | Second round of PTI-Govt talks | ARY News | 2ndJanuary 2025
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00:00As-salamu alaykum, dear viewers, you are watching the program with me, Kashif Abbasi and Mr. Hamid Raza is here with us.
00:24Today, we are going to talk about what happened in the negotiations.
00:32It is being said that there were negotiations in a very good atmosphere between the government and the opposition team.
00:42What has been decided?
00:45It was being said that there would be day-to-day hearings.
00:48It seems that it was not decided.
00:51We will meet Mr. Imran Khan next week.
00:54Before that, I would like to ask Mr. Mukhtar Dada something.
00:59You tweeted yesterday.
01:02Did you do this?
01:04Yes, I did.
01:05In this tweet, you said that after two and a half years of being beaten, it is time for us to smile.
01:12You keep smiling, but what is going to happen now?
01:16I think it is time for us to smile more.
01:19What happened?
01:20Two and a half years ago, a reality was ignored.
01:25It was said that there will be no Imran Khan.
01:28Your political career is over.
01:30Everything is over.
01:33Today, after two and a half years, things have started to move forward.
01:39The reality has been accepted that Imran Khan is the reality.
01:43He is the biggest leader in Pakistan.
01:47When the political people turn 90 degrees against you,
01:53they naturally start to smell things.
01:58What do you smell?
02:00That Imran Khan is coming out.
02:02Imran Khan is coming out?
02:04Yes.
02:05Will he be sitting here or in a lock?
02:09No, Imran Khan is very clear about this.
02:12He is very clear about this.
02:13Even today, during the conversation, he said that Imran Khan is coming out legally.
02:19But what is the case against Imran Khan?
02:21Everyone has been bailed out.
02:23What is the case against him?
02:26He can be hanged in 4-6 minutes.
02:28No, he will not be hanged now.
02:31Did you talk to him?
02:33No, I did not talk to him.
02:35I did not talk to him at all.
02:37No more political victimization.
02:41Many of our workers have been trialed.
02:45The bail is their right.
02:47Prosecution, for no reason, opposes their bail.
02:51And the judge accepts it for no reason.
02:53Yes, the judge accepts it for no reason.
02:55Both are responsible.
02:57You should understand.
02:59Both are responsible.
03:00We understand it very easily.
03:02But it is time to change those realities.
03:07How?
03:08You have written that we should smile.
03:11But you are saying that it is time to smile more.
03:13What do you mean?
03:15Big words.
03:17Honestly, if you tell me,
03:19before the negotiations,
03:21before all these things,
03:23was there a complete ignorance from the government?
03:30If you ask me, I don't think anything will happen to you.
03:33You have a ray of hope in you.
03:37I am a positive person.
03:39Where did it break?
03:40I am a positive person.
03:41I walk with hope.
03:42It broke from this place.
03:43A political person always analyzes on the basis of his information.
03:47He smells things.
03:49He looks at the environment around him.
03:51The things I am seeing,
03:53I can see that Mr. Khan is coming out.
03:55And once Khan comes out,
03:57we will rectify everything.
03:59Khan will rectify everything.
04:00Yes, Khan will rectify everything.
04:02We will also reduce the pressure.
04:04We have cut the GDP.
04:06We will be a little relaxed.
04:08Has anyone else felt this difference?
04:11If the government has felt it,
04:13then it is sitting on the negotiations.
04:16So this difference has already been felt somewhere else.
04:18Absolutely.
04:19And they feel that Khan should come out.
04:23I don't come to the negotiations right now.
04:25You are having the actual negotiations.
04:27Tell me the details.
04:28Because someone told me that the talks are actually
04:31to take Mr. Khan to Bengala.
04:33And also because it is your party's opinion.
04:37And I heard that when you went to meet last week,
04:39you were convincing Mr. Khan to come to Bengala.
04:43I didn't do it.
04:44Who did it?
04:46No, he was not in favor of this.
04:48The problem was that even today Mr. Khan
04:50released a statement from Dela Jal.
04:52Now Mr. Khan himself has made it
04:54that I have been offered to shift to Bengala.
04:57And this is what happened to Mr. Khan there.
05:01So the position of the entire committee
05:03and Mr. Khan's position was exactly the same.
05:05That until the political workers are released,
05:08until our political leaders,
05:12who are the target of political victimization,
05:15they do not come out of it.
05:17Until then, Mr. Khan is going nowhere.
05:19Mr. Khan was going one step ahead.
05:21He was saying that all the prisoners should be released.
05:23First of all, they have to be released,
05:25who are the members of my party.
05:27They should also be released.
05:28My leaders should also be released.
05:30I am here.
05:31I don't want to go. I don't want to go.
05:33Then you told him,
05:35Mr. Khan, if you want to do the negotiations,
05:38then go to Bengala,
05:39so that at least the people who want to meet you,
05:42who will talk to you,
05:43they can talk directly.
05:44Is this what you said?
05:45I didn't say this to Mr. Khan.
05:47Those who said it, they said it.
05:50They said that if you go there,
05:52there will be a commission.
05:54Look, let me tell you one thing, Mr. Kashi.
05:57If there is no commission,
05:59both of them,
06:009th May and 26th November,
06:02and if the workers are not released,
06:04then there will be no positive development on our side.
06:07This is a non-starter.
06:08Anything else?
06:09Yes, anything else.
06:10If both of these happen,
06:11then after that, sir,
06:12will we talk further?
06:13So, the offer you have received from Bengala,
06:17the one you are smiling at,
06:19now it is time to say a lot to you,
06:22that has come from there.
06:24Sir, Mr. Khan can tell you
06:26to whom the direct offer has reached.
06:28And when you were convincing him,
06:30the friends who were convincing him,
06:32how did it reach them?
06:33They must have also been told
06:34to convince Mr. Khan,
06:35so that…
06:36I spoke to Mr. Khan inside first.
06:38When we reached,
06:39if you remember before that,
06:40Ms. Aleema Khan,
06:41when we were entering inside,
06:43around half an hour before that,
06:44Ms. Aleema Khan had come and given a statement
06:46that Mr. Khan has said
06:47that he is not shifting anywhere.
06:49The first priority for me is my employees.
06:51That was a stated position, right?
06:53Yes.
06:54When you went inside…
06:55Mr. Ali Ameen was joking.
06:57Obviously, he is the CM
06:59and the Chief Executive of a province.
07:02He talks to Mr. Ali Ameen.
07:05And I was told
07:06that around 24th November,
07:10this offer had come seriously,
07:12then it was over,
07:14then it came to the table again.
07:16Yes.
07:18And Mr. Khan is now doing it conditionally.
07:21Mr. Khan has said
07:22that if he fulfills all these demands,
07:24then I will consider.
07:28Will you consider again?
07:29Yes.
07:30He still has not decided.
07:32Because your decision…
07:34I was also seeing in the discussions today.
07:36By the way,
07:37first of all,
07:38the discussions were in a good atmosphere.
07:40It was in a good atmosphere.
07:42You people said
07:43that our men were killed,
07:44dead bodies were dropped,
07:45bullets were fired.
07:46Where are the missing people?
07:47Exactly.
07:48This issue was raised.
07:49Mr. Umar Ayub,
07:50Mr. Salman Akram Raja
07:51and Mr. Ali Ameen Gandapur.
07:53Since these three were not present
07:54in the previous meeting,
07:55so today we also decided
07:57that these three…
07:58Mr. Umar Ayub is also leading
07:59this discussion,
08:00our delegation.
08:01So, all these points were raised
08:03and raised by him.
08:05And each and every one
08:06was raised with great detail
08:08and it was heard with great patience.
08:10Okay.
08:11By the way,
08:12you were listening to the press conference.
08:14You read out the announcements
08:15of the press conference.
08:16In that announcement,
08:17Bani Chairman has written
08:18that Imran Khan has been elected
08:19by the government.
08:20So, can you tell him
08:21that Imran Khan has been elected
08:22by the government
08:23on TV?
08:24Sir, it can be told.
08:25How?
08:26Sir,
08:27that…
08:28Sir,
08:29tell the camera…
08:30This is the government.
08:31Call the camera
08:32and tell them
08:33to let Imran Khan be elected.
08:34Bani Chairman…
08:35Sir,
08:36I will tell you.
08:37That,
08:38maybe,
08:39the companion
08:40who was present
08:41wrote Bani Chairman.
08:42Then,
08:43we pointed out
08:44that Imran Khan should be elected.
08:45The government team
08:46did not make any allegations
08:47on that.
08:48They said,
08:49okay,
08:50that is alright.
08:51So,
08:52they elected Imran Khan.
08:53So,
08:54Bani Chairman was written
08:55but Imran Khan was elected.
08:56On our demand.
08:57So,
08:58they should let the picture
08:59be shown on TV.
09:00I think,
09:01it should be shown.
09:02I think,
09:03it will continue for some time
09:04and then it will be shown.
09:05Yes,
09:06Imran Khan will be written.
09:07Sir,
09:08Imran Khan is written
09:09on that.
09:10And,
09:11you see,
09:12in the briefing,
09:13Deputy Prime Minister
09:14is present.
09:15Irfan Siddiqui
09:16is present.
09:17Rana Sanawala
09:18is present.
09:19Naveed Kamar
09:20is present.
09:21Raja Parvez Ashraf
09:22is present.
09:23Farooq Sattar
09:24is present.
09:25Ijaz-ul-Haq
09:26is present.
09:27Maqsi
09:28is present.
09:29So,
09:30in front of all these people
09:31this discussion took place
09:32and in their presence,
09:33repeatedly,
09:34four times,
09:35I guess,
09:36if I am not wrong,
09:37he will come.
09:38I guess,
09:39it will continue for some time.
09:40Then,
09:41he will become the
09:42next chairman.
09:43The road is long.
09:44Sir,
09:45no,
09:46not now.
09:47Tell me,
09:48you requested to meet
09:49Imran Khan
09:50at the meeting.
09:51You said that
09:52you want to meet him.
09:53Now,
09:54what do you want to ask him?
09:55Something that you
09:56don't ask him every day.
09:57Sir,
09:58today,
09:59it was discussed
10:00that our missing persons,
10:01presumably death,
10:02until their status
10:03is not clear,
10:04because earlier
10:05our missing persons
10:06were identified
10:07when their names
10:08were made public.
10:09So,
10:10some of them
10:11were identified
10:12and some
10:13were in jail.
10:14So,
10:15they were identified
10:16but the list
10:17was not clear.
10:18Today,
10:19I guess,
10:20it was told
10:21by CMKPK
10:22that they are
10:23close to 46.
10:24Presumably,
10:25their death
10:26status is not clear.
10:27So,
10:28the government
10:29asked us
10:30to check
10:31their names.
10:32Similarly,
10:33our bullet injuries,
10:34whose medical reports
10:35were not clear,
10:36were also not clear.
10:37Similarly,
10:38our martyrs
10:39were also not clear.
10:40So,
10:41the last meeting
10:42with Mr. Khan,
10:43which was 25-30 minutes
10:44long
10:45or 35-40 minutes
10:46long,
10:47you cannot
10:48talk about
10:49these things
10:50openly.
10:51You have
10:52to bring
10:53many things
10:54to the draft
10:55that you
10:56want to give
10:57them by name
10:58and what
10:59you want
11:00to write.
11:01So,
11:02we want
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31:37and
31:38we
31:39want
31:40to
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31:43and
31:44we
31:45want
31:46to
31:47meet
31:48you
31:49and
31:50we
31:51But it is very clear that the sentiment in the country is in favour of PTI.
31:56There is no doubt about it.
31:57You go out on the streets.
31:58I go out every day and meet people.
32:01There is no good in PTI.
32:04Let me tell you this as well.
32:06It is a failure of PMLN and the people's party.
32:10The real problem is that this is the sentiment.
32:12Sentiment?
32:13If this is the sentiment, is it because the government is accepting it?
32:20Is it because the government is not accepting it?
32:22Acceptance is not that special.
32:24Acceptance is very special.
32:25Very special.
32:26If I accept it, you are a sensible person.
32:29Is this the reason why he is asking for time?
32:31The government has no authority.
32:35The opposition has no mandate.
32:38This is the reason for the failure.
32:40Neither the government nor the opposition has the authority.
32:43Imran Khan is there.
32:44He will go.
32:45He will discuss.
32:46He will say no.
32:47He will come home.
32:48Nothing will happen.
32:50The discussion will end.
32:52Both will claim that when the negotiations fail,
32:55the government is more responsible.
32:57Negotiations fail.
32:59In this case, I feel that the government,
33:03if you look at both the parties,
33:05who has more authority?
33:08The government has the status to continue.
33:12It suits them.
33:13Neither they have anything to give.
33:15What can they give?
33:16Neither Imran Khan.
33:17Except if they get time.
33:19If Imran Khan says,
33:20I will come out and not bring down your government.
33:22All of them sit here.
33:23The media says,
33:24how can the political party say that we will not do it?
33:26No one can say that.
33:28Look, give permission for politics.
33:31Bringing down the government is the only way
33:34to make people not trust you.
33:36After the government,
33:38there is no majority.
33:39There is coalition government.
33:41There is no coalition, sir.
33:43People's Party is not a part of the government.
33:47It is on the benches,
33:49but not in the cabinet.
33:50Where there is a majority,
33:51they are with the government.
33:53Where there is no majority,
33:54they are not with the government.
33:55They are good coalition partners.
33:57They are good time partners.
33:59How much is this system running?
34:02Sir,
34:03how did Imran Khan come?
34:06He went through the same path.
34:08He also went through the same path.
34:10They do not have the authority
34:12to decide how long they will stay.
34:15Who has the authority?
34:16Someone else.
34:18Usually, people have the authority,
34:20but today, it is all a drama.
34:22But when you say that
34:24they do not have the authority,
34:26I understand that later.
34:28But how much time are they giving?
34:30Do you think that the government is not running?
34:32You keep saying that the government is not running.
34:34The government is not running.
34:36Then how much time do you give?
34:38Sir, what can I do?
34:40Every day is heavy.
34:42Believe me,
34:43if you do not find a solution,
34:45your country's situation
34:47and our country's situation
34:49will get worse.
34:50Have you downloaded the VPN?
34:51What?
34:52Have you downloaded the VPN?
34:53No, no.
34:54I do not break the law.
34:55And then,
34:56you just see that
34:57the Prime Minister
34:58tells you every day
34:59how much progress we are making.
35:00Yes.
35:01How much better we have become.
35:02They have to go to the VPN.
35:04The Prime Minister of this country
35:06is himself
35:07breaking the law.
35:08He should blog
35:09and then go to the VPN
35:10and tweet.
35:12Does this logic accept?
35:15What is this logic?
35:16But do you not agree with him
35:18when he says that we are doing a good job?
35:20I do not want to apologize to him
35:22but I cannot agree.
35:25Then you should protest against him.
35:27I do this and that.
35:32By the way,
35:33in the future,
35:34all of us together
35:35will do this and that.
35:37Mr. Saad Rafiq said something.
35:39In today's discussion,
35:41I was telling Mr. Sahibzada.
35:43It was a very interesting discussion.
35:45And it was that
35:46it is enough.
35:47Establishment.
35:48Hybrid system.
35:49Till when
35:50will there be
35:51one in jail
35:52and one in government
35:53in every election?
35:54Do you think
35:55the remote controlled democracy
35:56that Mr. Saad Rafiq
35:57talked about
35:58that democracy
35:59should be run
36:00with remote control
36:01in a hybrid system?
36:02There is someone else
36:03in the back
36:04and for the face
36:05you have politicians.
36:06Is your government
36:07ready to make
36:08any agreement
36:09on this
36:10in this environment?
36:12PML?
36:13In this environment.
36:14In this environment
36:15when they have to...
36:16Sir,
36:17they are the progenitors
36:18of this hybrid system.
36:19What will they do?
36:20They should resign
36:21and the matter will end.
36:22But then
36:23why do they sit
36:24in meetings
36:25and say they will agree?
36:26I am surprised
36:27that
36:28I am thinking
36:29what is this meeting?
36:31You are deciding
36:32that you don't accept
36:33the hybrid system.
36:34This is what
36:35the government wants.
36:36Yes.
36:37Then resign
36:38and the hybrid system
36:39will end.
36:40It won't end.
36:42They will be afraid
36:43that if we resign
36:44and leave the system
36:45then someone else
36:46will come.
36:47Someone else
36:48will say I am ready
36:49to serve.
36:50No,
36:51there are only two parties
36:52either PMLN
36:53or PTI.
36:54There is a third party.
36:55Sir,
36:56anything can happen
36:57after 1947.
36:58I am talking about 1947
36:59not 1947.
37:00No,
37:01it has been happening.
37:02Don't consider it
37:03Form 47
37:04but it is easy
37:05to show it to someone.
37:06Sir,
37:07it is not that easy.
37:08It has been going on
37:09for a long time.
37:10It was the third party
37:11with 7000 members.
37:12But the problem is
37:13do you think
37:14this is the time
37:15when everyone
37:16decides
37:17how the system
37:18will work.
37:19Sir,
37:20the system
37:21is not working.
37:22There is no need
37:23to decide.
37:24Look at the state
37:25of the country.
37:26Sir,
37:27I am not talking
37:28about the economy.
37:29I am talking
37:30about the country's
37:31system.
37:32Which system
37:33are you talking about?
37:34I am talking
37:35about democracy.
37:36Democracy?
37:37Whether the politicians
37:39will vote for it
37:40or not.
37:41So,
37:42is it the time
37:43to decide?
37:44I don't think so.
37:45I don't think so.
37:46That thought
37:47is not here.
37:48And
37:49before the
37:50decisions
37:51are made
37:52on the streets
37:53it is better
37:54that everyone
37:55deals with
37:56this issue
37:57together.
37:58The establishment
37:59the opposition
38:00the government
38:01and the judiciary
38:02this time
38:03has come.
38:04Because
38:05you have to
38:06admit that
38:07our country
38:08needs reforms
38:09so much
38:10that there is
38:11no limit.
38:12The country
38:13will not work
38:14without them.
38:15Everything is
38:16a failure.
38:17For 16 years
38:18the People's
38:19Party of Sindh
38:20has been a failure.
38:21For 11 years
38:22the PTI
38:23has been a failure.
38:24The PMLN
38:25of Punjab
38:26has been a failure.
38:27Are these
38:28principles working?
38:29Why?
38:30Is there
38:31no seriousness?
38:32Is there
38:33no capacity?
38:34There is no
38:35capacity,
38:36there is no
38:38capacity.
38:39What do you think
38:40Mariam Nawaz
38:41is doing?
38:42Mariam Nawaz
38:43can do nothing.
38:44The system
38:45is not
38:46supportive
38:47for anyone.
38:48You need
38:49reforms.
38:50Has anyone
38:51reformed?
38:52Now look
38:53at the common
38:54man.
38:55What does
38:56the government
38:57do?
38:58Education?
38:59Is it better?
39:00Is health better?
39:01With the
39:02printing of
39:03plastic cards
39:04there will be
39:05no health
39:06and no
39:07education.
39:08There will
39:09be no
39:10education.
39:11There will
39:12be no
39:13education.
39:14There will
39:15be no
39:16education.
39:17There will
39:18be no
39:19education.
39:20There will
39:21be no
39:22education.
39:23There will
39:24be no
39:25education.
39:26There will
39:27be no
39:28education.
39:29There will
39:30be no
39:31education.
39:32There will
39:33be no
39:34education.
39:35There will
39:36be no
39:37education.
39:38There will
39:39be no
39:40education.
39:41There will
39:42be
39:43no
39:44education.
39:45There
39:46will
39:47be no
39:48education.
39:49There
39:50will
39:51be no
39:52education.
39:53I
39:54thought the
39:55Punjab
39:56government was
39:57running
39:58better.
39:59But
40:00anyways
40:01better
40:02than's
40:03what?
40:04I'm sure people would like to know, what are the reasons behind it?
40:11Sir, the reason is that the government is not doing its job properly.
40:18The government is not doing its job properly.
40:21The government is not doing its job properly.
40:24The government is not doing its job properly.
40:27The government is not doing its job properly.
40:31What are the reasons behind it?
40:33Sir, the reason is that in 2007, 2008, 2006,
40:40when the Charter of Democracy was taking place,
40:42along with it, the Charter of Democracy was also taking place.
40:44These things happen in politics, unfortunately.
40:48Because our personal interest comes first, the country comes later.
40:55This is a clear fact.
40:57This is why we have power politics.
41:00But the place of power politics has ended, unfortunately.
41:03It's the politicians' misfortune that there is no place for power politics.
41:07But there is a lot of space for power politics.
41:09Let's take power, but we don't have power.
41:11Yes, that's right.
41:12It's just a chair.
41:13It's over.
41:14It's over.
41:15Saad Rafiq also mentioned something else.
41:17How difficult it is for a country to...
41:22He says that there are kings in the parties.
41:26One person says that there are no parties.
41:29He also said this in the Remote Control of the Republic.
41:32There is a decision in every party.
41:36In that decision, the influence of consensus is necessary.
41:42No one speaks about consensus.
41:44This is the biggest problem in our politics, that no one speaks about it.
41:48They care more about the chair,
41:50the MNAs, the ministers.
41:53They care more about their ticket.
41:55The rulers have their own thoughts.
41:58They try to implement it.
42:00So, there is an ill-informed decision-making in our system.
42:05And there is no one to stop it.
42:07We all get involved in it.
42:09We jump in and get involved.
42:10The survival is in everyone.
42:11You say that you throw the tiger out of the party.
42:14Sir, then you have to take this risk.
42:17Somebody has to do it.
42:19The military courts have been pardoned today.
42:22I think they were pardoned in the 1990s.
42:26They were given earlier.
42:28How do you see this?
42:30There is power.
42:31There is law.
42:32In the law, I think the army chief has the power to pardon it.
42:36The appeal goes to him.
42:38So, the president has the power of the political people.
42:42According to the Army Act, the appeal is under the constitutional rights of the army.
42:49The pardon is with them.
42:51No, the appeal is with them.
42:52The pardon is later.
42:53This is an appeal.
42:54You can leave it in the appeal.
42:55But the appeal is also here in the high courts.
42:57In the high courts.
42:58No, that appeal is under the constitutional rights.
43:02So, if they want to do it personally, they can leave it.
43:05Yes, I will have to look at the law.
43:07But as far as I remember...
43:08No, you are right.
43:09They have done it.
43:10Good move.
43:11Do you think the punishment should go to the military courts?
43:14It is a good thing.
43:15All these punishments should be pardoned.
43:17You are saying not to do it.
43:18But the problem is that it should go to the military courts.
43:21It should go.
43:22Look, there is room in the law.
43:24This is not a violation of the law.
43:26In the law, there is also a punishment of three years for protesting in Islamabad.
43:31Yes, yes.
43:32This is what the law says.
43:33That is why I am saying that the law should be used with discretion.
43:36It can be tried in the civil court.
43:38It can also be tried in the anti-terrorist court.
43:40In Punjab, 780A is used like a revolver.
43:43In Murree, there was a fight.
43:45780A was used for 40 people.
43:48I heard that the committee asked for your name.
43:51The government said that they will remove your name.
43:53No, no.
43:54I told them not to give me my name.
43:55But they gave me my name.
43:56The government said that they will remove my name.
43:57I said that I don't want my name.
43:59Remove my name first.
44:00This is a matter of thought.
44:03I had no connection with the committee.
44:06They told me later that they had sent your name.
44:08But they did not approve it.
44:09I said that you are making the committee approve it.
44:11You talk about your problems.
44:13Find a solution to it.
44:14Whatever it is.
44:15If you allow me, let's take a break.
44:17We will be back after the break.
44:22Welcome back, viewers.
44:23Finally, Mr. Shah.
44:24Using your political experience.
44:26What will be the situation in the next six months?
44:30The government will be in its place in Imran Khan jail.
44:33And this will be it.
44:36There is no way.
44:37Because that thought is not visible in the country.
44:39Do we have a way of conflict resolution in this democracy?
44:44There is no way.
44:46If you focus on the country.
44:49If you sit down to solve the problems of the country.
44:52Then the other secondary issues.
44:55Imran Khan is in jail.
44:57What happened on May 26?
44:59What happened on May 9?
45:00These are all secondary issues.
45:02We will come to the issues of the country.
45:04We will try to find a solution.
45:06We will put up a flag.
45:08When everyone starts implementing it together.
45:10These things will be left aside.
45:12But what we think today.
45:14What is our attitude.
45:16The non-democratic, non-parliamentary values ​​in the country.
45:19I have no hope.
45:21I don't see any hope of goodness.
45:22Thank you very much, Mr. Shah.
45:23The Prime Minister of Pakistan is present.
45:24Viewers, allow me.
45:25Allah Hafiz.