👉 Fabián Sturn Jardón, uruguayo de 42 años, asesinaron por la espalda frente a un kiosco, ubicado en Paraguay al 2900 estaba buscado por un asesinato narco. Dialogamos con el comisario retirado, Alfredo Grimaldi.
🗣️ Guillermo Andino
👉 Seguí en #AndinoYLasNoticias
📺 a24.com/vivo
🗣️ Guillermo Andino
👉 Seguí en #AndinoYLasNoticias
📺 a24.com/vivo
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NewsTranscript
00:00We said yesterday that this was in the context of a hitman, an adjustment of accounts, but it is a hitman who supposedly kills another hitman,
00:09drugs again, part of a community. I say, if this is a secret to you, why can't you get there before these things happen?
00:17No, but look, it's a secret to you and it's not a secret either.
00:23Let's see.
00:24What happens is that you don't have to naturalize, but this is normal.
00:27Why?
00:28If you have a company and you have competitors, and some of the competitors do something wrong, you go to justice.
00:36Here in this world it is something else.
00:38The bullets are fixed.
00:39And this is how it is.
00:40Of course.
00:41Unfortunately, this is how it is.
00:43And well, I'll make something clear to you, because there is a confusion.
00:46Because everyone says, no, it has become a country, Argentina, where there is a lot of drugs.
00:50Argentina is still a country of passage.
00:53Oh yeah?
00:54But sign that.
00:57Look, we have the belief that in recent years ...
01:03There is a crime that we are the best in the world.
01:07Not the Argentines, not you and me.
01:10The Argentines who are involved in this crime, the best in the world.
01:13Yes, corruption.
01:14No, well, that's on the side.
01:16But thanks to that, we are the best in the world in smuggling.
01:20Ah yes.
01:21But the best.
01:22But Alfredo, how do you explain ...
01:24Well, any drug that wants to reach Europe first arrives here.
01:27Yes, but I wanted to ask you ...
01:28Then it goes to Europe.
01:29And there is a problem there.
01:30When the drug goes to Europe, the drug does not pay with money, it pays with drugs.
01:34Of course, of course, of course.
01:36So, as more and more happen, there is more and more here.
01:40I wanted to ask you, in many smugglings in recent years,
01:44laboratories were found for the manufacture of different drugs.
01:48That cannot determine us as a country where ...
01:52No, but laboratories were found here, but not of cocaine, for example.
01:56Laboratories of synthetics were found.
01:58Of course.
01:59Well, that happens anywhere in the world.
02:01But apart from that, a cocaine laboratory, so that you understand.
02:06To make a kilo of cocaine you need 100 kilos of leaves.
02:09100 kilos of leaves.
02:10Can you imagine the volume?
02:11Because a leaf weighs nothing.
02:13Of course.
02:14So it's not that easy.
02:15Then you need acetone, chlorine, you understand?
02:20You have all those things that you have to do to make the famous paste base.
02:23And then, well, you have to do it another way.
02:25But here there is no such thing.
02:27That is in Bolivia.
02:28Or commonly in Colombia, which is further away.
02:31Of course.
02:32But I still came here.
02:34Let's see, based on what Grimaldi says just now,
02:36which said the exit area,
02:39when he was just talking about the beginning of all these investigations that are being done,
02:44which are linked to a cartel that operated from the area of Cadiahuen,
02:48in the province of Neuquén, which I correct myself,
02:50it was not 8 kilos, it was 800 kilos,
02:52kidnapped by the cocaine gendarmerie and the prefecture.
02:55It was talked about the use of sails to transport the drug to Europe.
03:00It is also difficult for me to think of a sailboat crossing the Atlantic,
03:03but I understand that perhaps some type of large ship.
03:06There is always some risk, but it is not so that it is transferred.
03:10It is transferred in large ships.
03:13With the normal load it also goes to the drug.
03:17The normal cargo ship, which carries cargo,
03:22also carries sometimes, of course, not always, sometimes it also carries something.
03:28We are specialists in that.
03:31This country is a specialist in smuggling.
03:35Many years ago, in the 80s, they told you something that seems to be true, but it is also sad.
03:43There was an individual here in Argentina who sold lomo to Spain.
03:50But how did he sell it? He said he sent it to Mondongo.
03:53But he made the tram and sold lomo for real.
03:57The Colombians find him summering this man in Punta Cana
04:03and propose him the game of cocaine.
04:07And there began one of the greats of those who pass cocaine to Europe.
04:11Like that, with that stupidity.
04:13When we imagine the proximity, Colombia is closer to Europe.
04:16What is the ease of transfer?
04:19But of course, there is the issue.
04:21How did I start? We are the specialists in the world of smuggling.
04:25Colombia does not have that specialty.
04:27And also, let's see another thing.
04:29Colombia, on the subject of drugs, is much more focused than we are.
04:33Now we are a little more, but hey.
04:35But Colombia is much more.
04:37Nobody does smuggling business with Colombia.
04:40It is the presence on one side of the border or on one side of the sea and on the other too, I imagine.
04:45Or is it so easy to access European territory?
04:48But when you do corruption on this side to smuggle,
04:51if you don't have corruption on the other side, how do you do it?
04:54Let's see, but Alfredo, there is something I would like you to explain to us.
04:58Because Bolivia does not have the extension of Argentina, much less the United States.
05:03Why can't you get to the places where it is produced to go to the bone?
05:08No, but I'll explain.
05:09No, but coca, coca in Bolivia is legal.
05:13It's legal.
05:14I lived two years on the border.
05:16When I got the first time, it was indigestion,
05:18because there you eat lechon every day.
05:20Well, they made me a coca tea.
05:23I said, how do you make coca tea? Take it.
05:25And it was really effective.
05:27And there was coca tea.
05:29Coca tea is sold in bags in Bolivia.
05:32In Bolivia you can't cut the production of leaves.
05:36You can't.
05:37Yes, but why don't you get to the places where that is produced?
05:41No, to the laboratories, to the kitchens, as they say.
05:45Which ones? The drug kitchens?
05:47Well, you can always get to the kitchens because they are almost all identified.
05:50I spent two years working on the border and I knew the Bolivian kitchens.
05:55But hey, that's another story.
05:57Do you know why you can't fight drugs, Nina?
06:00Why?
06:01Simple.
06:02Because you can't fight the money that drugs generate.
06:05You can't.
06:07You're going to have a fight that from time to time,
06:11from time to time, they let you win a little battle.
06:16They're going to show you something.
06:18They let you win a little battle.
06:20They make you kidnap a truck and they send it to you.
06:23Grimaldi.
06:24So it's impossible.
06:26I'm going to tell you what the alternative is, which I always say.
06:29It's the devil's alternative.
06:31Nobody likes it, but there's no other.
06:33Either you legalize it or the mafia follows.
06:35Because these people we are seeing, the Uruguayans, are not the heads, we imagine.
06:39But no, forget it.
06:41Forget it.
06:42Forget it, I'm not the head.
06:44Why don't you get there?
06:46Why don't you get to the disarticulation of the heads of the cartels?
06:49Because we can already talk about cartels in Argentina.
06:51But I just told you.
06:53It is impossible to fight drugs for the money it generates.
06:58It's impossible.
06:59And what it finances, right?
07:01But listen to me.
07:02Do you have any doubts that they finance political campaigns?
07:05That's why.
07:06World angel.
07:07Now, we are seeing this image that we see a lot on television.
07:11The situation of Rosario, which we have commented on many times.
07:14In the city of Buenos Aires, I don't remember so much.
07:16No, the last one.
07:17Is there a danger that the city of Buenos Aires will transform into the new Rosario
07:21if this is not discovered quickly and if it is not dismantled?
07:24I don't think so.
07:25I don't think so because it is not convenient for them to make so much noise.
07:29Buenos Aires is not the best city, but it is the most important.
07:33And how much does it cost to kill a person?
07:35How much does it cost to kill a person with these hitmen?
07:39I don't know.
07:40I would give you a slap in the face.
07:43Because yesterday you told us that there are groups that are dedicated to this.
07:47Of course.
07:48What they call families.
07:50They are actually clans.
07:52This was copied, I don't know if you remember.
07:55I don't know if you remember, but you must have read about Lucky Luciano,
07:58when he organized all the mafia in the United States.
08:00Of course.
08:01It's the same thing.
08:02The same thing is copied.
08:03So there are those who harvest, those who sell it, and those who settle accounts.
08:09Do you understand?
08:10Yes.
08:11That's how it is.
08:12That's how it is.
08:13So everyone does their business in there.
08:15And we have the crimes that we are seeing.
08:17Yes.
08:18I don't think they will get to Buenos Aires.
08:20But they also don't need to be in Buenos Aires a lot.
08:24They don't like to show themselves so much.
08:26Do you remember who was the greatest drug trafficker in history?
08:29At least known.
08:30Pablo Escobar.
08:32Exactly.
08:33Pablo Escobar.
08:34And why did he lose?
08:36Because he wanted to dedicate himself to politics.
08:38When he became very visible.
08:40Of course.
08:41When he gained visibility.
08:43Yes, it's true.
08:44Exactly.
08:45When he became very visible, he already bothered the power.
08:48What I'm telling you is obviously from the series,
08:50but the series is based on a book that investigated very well the phenomenon of Pablo Escobar.
08:55And Pablo Escobar, in fact, his own people tell him,
08:58don't get into politics.
08:59He says, no, because I'm going to be a congressman,
09:01then I'm going to be president.
09:03Of course.
09:04I offer to pay the external debt of the country.
09:06And that's where it started.
09:07And here we had...
09:08And also, when you whiten yourself and you have visibility,
09:11it's like you're supposedly more covered.
09:13Here we have congressmen who have traveled by plane.
09:16Here we have a congressman who has traveled by plane.
09:19And that today he has the presidency of the Budget Commission.
09:22But no, no.
09:23I know who you're talking about.
09:24But no, no, no.
09:25But I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
09:27Here we have suitcases that have come in, hooking up one.
09:30But yes.
09:31There were hundreds of them coming in.
09:33Examples in politics.
09:34They were coming from Venezuela.
09:35Of course.
09:36We have many things.
09:37Examples in politics.
09:38Andino, there are millions of examples in politics.
09:40Yes, of course.
09:41Do you understand?
09:42Millions.
09:43Anywhere you want.
09:44We had a Pablo Escobar.
09:45It doesn't matter which party.
09:46We had a small Pablo Escobar here in Mameluco, Villarreal.
09:48He also wanted to do politics in San Martín.
09:50And today he is in prison.
09:52He was, when he was little, brought to the lack of state that there was in many places.
09:58He was present.
10:00And there the empathy of the people was also achieved.
10:02And the possibility of an electoral growth.
10:04The same thing that happened with Escobar.
10:06It is what the narco does today too.
10:08In the villages it is present.
10:09Of course.
10:10The food that the state has to give them, they give it to them.
10:14Yes, we are in imminent danger.
10:17You don't know what's going on.
10:19Andino, you are not going to fight the drug because the guy is a problem.
10:25The police can't fight it because it is a health problem.
10:27You can't.
10:28The police can't fight a health problem and much less a social problem.
10:32It is not prepared for that.
10:34It is prepared for something else.
10:36So you have to legalize it to end the mafia.
10:39Do you understand?
10:40The mafia is what is bothering.
10:42Then we see how we do once it is legalized.
10:45That we know who takes it.
10:47Today I ask you or anyone, how much cocaine is sold in the country.
10:51Nobody knows.
10:52They say the amount of what was kidnapped and to multiply it by 13.
10:56No, this is stupidity.
10:58There is no such statistic, assuming things.
11:01Alfredo.
11:02Yes, I hear you.
11:05Because the truth is that it has opened our eyes to issues that we do not know.
11:08But it is good that people also know.
11:10Those who are watching the news.
11:11Well, yes.
11:12It is interesting that people know and that a debate begins on this.
11:16A debate that normally you have to start as it corresponds.
11:20It is the press.
11:21There is no other.
11:22And then it goes to politics.
11:24Sure.
11:25We send you a hug.
11:26Thank you very much.
11:27Likewise.
11:28I greet your table.
11:29I adore that table you have.