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00:00It all happened so suddenly.
00:02Of course, it has a long history.
00:04But this is just this month that he was standing with the Iranian Foreign Minister
00:09and was expressing his confidence.
00:12And secondly, the fact that there was a lot of gunfire,
00:18but it was all in the air.
00:19There was no bloodshed.
00:21There were no casualties.
00:22Does this give you any reason to believe that somewhere,
00:26there was some arrangement,
00:28something like this, which is taken in public information,
00:31but somewhere, there was something?
00:33Look, if I look at it without representing Pakistan,
00:36without representing Pakistan's official position,
00:39from an observer's point of view,
00:42then somewhere, there is not just nothing,
00:45but everywhere, there is a lot.
00:48And I think that in 2012,
00:51when the aftereffects of the Syrian Arab Spring
00:55and the first part of the Arab Spring took place,
00:58then you will remember that we were the government of the People's Party
01:01and I was the Foreign Minister at that time.
01:03And we also saw that groups of Friends of Syria were formed.
01:06There was a very massive grouping of Western interests,
01:09Western countries,
01:11and then there were many other countries,
01:13in which Turkey was a very major player.
01:16At that time, Eastern countries were also very tough players.
01:20And we witnessed a whole process
01:22where armed groups,
01:24which can be called rebel groups,
01:26you can call them freedom fighters,
01:29you can call them whatever you want,
01:31or you can also call them terrorists.
01:33And at that time,
01:35the countries,
01:37the government has not yet taken care of it,
01:39but because the people of Syria are being celebrated,
01:43they have a $10 million bounty from the US,
01:47and they are also on the UN terrorist list.
01:50This is very little,
01:52because it is very easy to get a unilateral sanction.
01:55It is not easy for any country,
01:57but it is not difficult to get it.
01:59But when you come to the UN sanction list,
02:02it means that there is a broad consensus
02:05that you are being treated like that.
02:08And for that person now to be celebrated,
02:11that is, to be celebrated in the West
02:15as a reformist,
02:17or as a freedom fighter,
02:19so if we know all this history,
02:23then you can tell that greater powers are at play.
02:29Now, if you look at it from the other side,
02:32then it is that when Gaddafi went,
02:35when Mubarak went,
02:38and you saw a massive celebration,
02:41and people went,
02:43because you saw footage in Syria,
02:46that people are vandalizing,
02:48looting,
02:50taking money out of banks,
02:52and there is a celebratory mode,
02:54and a chaotic mode.
02:56And this has lasted very little time
03:00in other countries,
03:02where the same processes have taken place.
03:04And after that,
03:06an anarchic and civil war-type situation unfolds.
03:10And the name and symbol of stability
03:13is ending in that way.
03:16Libya is a very, very good example of this,
03:18where educational rates were one of the highest in the region.
03:22Now you see the situation there.
03:24Iraq is, in some ways,
03:26because a lot of people forget that
03:28the Iraq war was not a UN Security Council authorized war.
03:32It was a coalition of unauthorized war in some ways.
03:37There was no international law sanctioned on it.
03:40So when this self-defense mode
03:42or pick-and-choose of who,
03:44who becomes a terrorist or a reformer,
03:46or a liberation-type leader,
03:48all of this, we call it a repeat.
03:54So I am very reluctant
03:56to go into any type of a celebratory mode.
04:00Because the right to life...
04:02And we have no reason to believe
04:04that this law will bring peace to human lives.
04:06Because as you rightly pointed out,
04:08at least in Afghanistan,
04:10there is no bloodshed,
04:12like there was in the previous Taliban regime.
04:14But there too,
04:16there was no rebellion.
04:18Like in Libya, for example.
04:20So here too, you have no reason to believe
04:22that there will be a rebellion.
04:26You see, I think I have a very different view on this.
04:28Because in Afghanistan,
04:30if you look at the UN Security Council reports,
04:32there is a massive concern for all of us.
04:34A massive concern.
04:36Pakistan has a lot of legitimate concerns
04:38on the TPP.
04:40And there are concerns
04:42around the world
04:44about how to preserve women's rights.
04:46But the UN Security Council reports
04:48tell you that
04:50the law and order situation in Afghanistan
04:52has never been better than it is today.
04:54That's the reality.
04:56When we don't like someone,
04:58we accept that reality.
05:00Their sanctiation regime is much better than before.
05:02But their problems are very serious.
05:04And there are a lot of Pakistanis.
05:06However, this is not the case in Libya.
05:08There is no stability there.
05:10Law and order has not improved there.
05:12Similarly, I think in Syria,
05:14and if you look at Egypt,
05:16from one state to another,
05:18there is chaos.