MEDI1TV Afrique : Retour aux racines : Redécouvrir et réinventer les textiles africains - 17/11/2024
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00:00Welcome to our show dedicated to African fashion.
00:16Today we explore the fascinating theme of the return to the roots, rediscovering and reinventing African textiles.
00:24Africa, rich in its textile heritage, has a variety of emblematic fabrics such as kente, bogolan and wax,
00:31which tell stories and carry profound cultural meanings.
00:36In this show, we will discover how African designers reinvent themselves to respond to modern trends while honoring their heritage.
00:47It's my pleasure to welcome Roger Bongo, creator of Ivorian fashion.
00:52Roger Bongo, thank you for being with us.
00:54Good evening. I'm the one who's calling you.
00:57Roger Bongo, African textiles and you, it's a long story.
01:01Of course.
01:02We remember your festival in Italy.
01:05Can you tell us what brought you to be interested in African textiles?
01:12Thank you. So, the event is Itani Itani, which means our bread, our bread, our heritage in Baolean.
01:21So, the idea for me is that in everything we do, I'm more focused on business.
01:28So, you see, in fashion, there's the textile side and there's the making side.
01:34And it turns out that in Africa, we're more on the making side, we're not on the textile side.
01:40In the textile world, there's a lot of things to do.
01:43There's a lot of available bread.
01:46There's a lot of patterns that we can use.
01:50These patterns, we use them, it's true.
01:52But behind that, there are weavers.
01:55Behind that, there are carpenters.
01:57Behind that, there are designers.
02:01And these people, today, are trying to leave all these jobs because we don't consume our bread.
02:08And the idea for me is to value it.
02:10And that all the creators, all the Ivorians, can consume this bread.
02:15That it can create wealth.
02:17And that all these professionals in this field can stay in their area, live their job.
02:22And that way, everyone is calm.
02:24That's where the idea for Itani came from.
02:27And this announcement is expected to be in another edition of Itani.
02:31In another edition, yes, in December.
02:32It's going to be in December.
02:33It's on the Democro side.
02:34Very good.
02:35So, we're talking about African pastries.
02:38But is bread an African specialty?
02:41No, not really.
02:42It's a big, big, big debate.
02:43Because bread isn't made at home.
02:45We consume it.
02:47But to tell the truth, it's become like a culture for us.
02:51When we see the wax today, we don't think of Germany.
02:54We think of Africa.
02:56So we're going to say that it's part of our heritage.
02:59But the real African bread is the bread that's made by hand.
03:02It's the bread that's woven by hand.
03:03It's the bread that's harvested by hand.
03:04It's the bread that's dyed by hand.
03:05In an organic way, in a natural way.
03:07And here we call it the woven bread.
03:09The woven bread.
03:10Because it's woven.
03:11With a weaving craft.
03:13It's not industrial.
03:14It's with a weaving craft.
03:15So they make it by hand.
03:16And it's still, let's say, the green economy.
03:21With organic products, the material.
03:24Organic products, natural dyeing.
03:26Dyeing that is not chemical, at the base.
03:29Very good.
03:30Roger Mongo, before we continue, I suggest that we look at the first edition of the ZRAMA festival.
03:37It's in the center of the Ivory Coast.
03:39It was in 2023.
03:41This festival focused on the Paigne Baoulé.
03:44It's a report signed by Lydia, Ferdinand Coquou and Ange-Ville Freyde.
03:50The Paigne Baoulé.
03:51Traditional fabric made from woven cotton is inherited from the culture of the Ashanti.
03:56It was originally woven by the old women who, over time, ended up giving the torch to a new generation.
04:02Now we find in the sector young people and people of all ages.
04:06It is made in the center of the Ivory Coast.
04:08And it is from this area that this traditional fabric serves the Ivory Coast and also abroad.
04:13To better promote this bread, the actors in the sector participate in several activities and exhibitions.
04:19This is the case of the first edition of the ZRAMA festival where we have discovered several stands dedicated to the Paigne Baoulé.
04:26I offer you the shoes in Paigne Baoulé.
04:30The Paigne Baoulé itself first.
04:32The hat.
04:34The tie.
04:36The earrings with the Paigne Baoulé.
04:38You have wallet in Paigne Baoulé.
04:40You have shoes in Paigne Baoulé.
04:43The Paigne Baoulé festival is held every year in the Ivory Coast.
04:47It is the first time that the Paigne Baoulé festival is held in the Ivory Coast.
04:55In the past, it was bread that was carried during funerals.
04:58There were types of bread that were given in a royal court.
05:02Anyone could not carry any bread.
05:06The excellent bread was reserved for the noble class.
05:12But today, the weight of the bread is democratized.
05:23Many young Ivorians, mainly those in the center of the country,
05:26have learned from their parents to weave the Paigne Baoulé and to sell it.
05:31In addition to living their passion, they manage to join the two sides.
05:35In terms of marketing, I think that these people in the stands
05:38and these people in the interventions allow us to have more visibility
05:41and to be seen in the world.
05:43Your interview like that, I believe that all this will help us to market our bread more.
05:48It is true that the traditional bread Baoulé meets its standards
05:53and values the socio-cultural potential of the Ivory Coast.
05:57However, some difficulties are to be raised in the production chain.
06:01In the production of the bread, it is mainly how to fix,
06:04how to make the bread, how to make the bread,
06:07how to make the bread, how to make the bread,
06:10how to make the bread, how to make the bread,
06:13how to make the bread, how to make the bread,
06:16how to fix the label on the cotton fabric,
06:21so that the bread does not come off.
06:24This is the difficulty that we have, that we still face,
06:27because our bread comes off when it comes into contact with water.
06:30We work on this.
06:31Life itself is a bit complicated.
06:33We lack the clientele and also the activity is slow
06:37because there are no potential customers.
06:46The Baoulé tradition
07:03As a reminder, on the 26th of July,
07:05the traditional bread Baoulé was labelled by the IJP system,
07:09protected geographical indication.
07:11This result is the crowning of a meticulous work
07:13by the teams of the Ministry of Commerce, Industry and Promotion of SMEs
07:17with those of the Ivorian Office of Intellectual Property.
07:21The Baoulé tradition
07:39Roger Bongo, when you see all that is being done to promote this bread,
07:44what does that make you do?
07:46It makes me smile, I'm happy.
07:48I'm happy because, as I said earlier,
07:51it will create wealth for us.
07:53You know, everything related to consumption is enriched.
07:56If you consume from the neighbour, it is the neighbour that you enrich.
07:59If you consume the raw material of the neighbour, it is the one that you enrich.
08:02If you consume the water of the neighbour, it is the one that you enrich.
08:05The idea here is to be able to do the production of bread
08:08and for the Ivorians to take it as a product from us
08:11that we can carry at any time.
08:13And with the Minister at our beck and call,
08:15when we had to work on a project like this,
08:17to carry bread to the administrations.
08:19Today, we continue with the Ministry of Culture and Industry
08:24so that this bread is carried to the administration.
08:28It is the day that we will find it and everyone will be there.
08:31And it will create a lot of wealth.
08:33As I said, if we manage to do it, there will be less exorbitance
08:36because people will stay there.
08:38They will stay there.
08:39And just now, they raised the fact that the tincture does not stay.
08:44It is just a matter of training.
08:47Otherwise, fixing a tincture, there is nothing associated with it.
08:49It is nothing at all.
08:50There are techniques that exist.
08:51There are modules that exist.
08:52We ourselves, at the level of ETAMI,
08:54we made modules on how to fix the tincture,
08:56how to make it less painful.
08:58Because afterwards, it remains a rather painful job
09:01for those who practice this job.
09:03So, for us, it means that we go on two axes.
09:06It means that fixing the tincture
09:08and then making the work less painful
09:11so that young people can be comfortable in it,
09:13so that they can sell it.
09:14Because if the tincture is good,
09:16if it is well fixed,
09:17if the tincture is of good quality,
09:18it is something that we, the creators, will use.
09:21But you can't put a tincture that comes out in shirts, in dresses.
09:25Today, I have an order that is maybe three weeks old.
09:29Now, I am in a state because I have not been able to deliver it.
09:31Just because the man has not been able to fix the tincture,
09:34the green tincture.
09:35A product that he gave me, I made it validated.
09:38Today, to deliver it, it is complicated.
09:39But when you give them training sessions,
09:42they are not ready to come and follow.
09:44So, after that, it remains a big, big, big, big difficulty.
09:46While the tincture is labelled.
09:50Yes.
09:51So, it is necessary that the government really put the money
09:54and that we solve the problem.
09:56But it's nothing at all.
09:57In one day, they will understand how to fix the tincture.
10:00It is not associated.
10:01Very good.
10:02So, what do you think are the most emblematic African tinctures today?
10:07Today, I think of Daphani.
10:10Because they have done a lot of work on it.
10:13This tincture, they made it thin.
10:15And it does not defecate.
10:17It is beautiful.
10:18It is usable.
10:19And it really works.
10:20In front of the tincture, in front of the tincture,
10:22it remains quite heavy too.
10:24So, today, I see Daphani.
10:26And I think it is a model for us.
10:28It is a model for us to follow.
10:30Because beyond even developing the tincture,
10:32they pushed consumption.
10:34Today, Daphani is taken to school.
10:36The minis are in Daphani.
10:38The authorities are in Daphani.
10:40The directors.
10:41And so, it creates wealth for Bukina.
10:43Because that's it.
10:44That's the thing.
10:45Before, at some point, when we talked to our dealers,
10:48the parents, they found that no, it's not interesting.
10:50I said it.
10:51But you make people grow up elsewhere.
10:54If your son makes you, let's say, a food that you think is not good,
10:59it's up to you to consume it first.
11:01You tell him, enjoy.
11:02There is this, that is missing.
11:03He improves.
11:04But if you go to the neighbor and you continue to feed the neighbor,
11:08he improves.
11:09He grows up.
11:10And you, you get poorer.
11:11So, all this is really linked to a big business.
11:14We must understand that it is something we need to be able to develop our country
11:19and all its potential.
11:21Very good.
11:22So, you already use these African tinctures, these woven tinctures.
11:26How do you manage to integrate them?
11:30In particular, kente, gougoulan and others in your creations.
11:35Yes, we get inside, but it's really minimalistic.
11:38Because today, not everyone can accept to wear
11:41bariolet pants with big patterns, big stripes.
11:44No.
11:45We try to adapt it to each of our clients.
11:48Some want a little more, some want a little less.
11:50But today, we still get to wear it.
11:53Our minister, for example, Mrs. Rimbaud,
11:56she is still, almost always, not woven.
11:58The Minister of Culture.
11:59Yes, the Minister of Culture.
12:00And this is something to be done.
12:02Everyone has to do it.
12:03All our defenders have to do it.
12:05There is Mrs. ...
12:08The Minister of Tumodi, who organized the dramas.
12:12Mama Goudou.
12:13Yes, Mama Goudou.
12:14Yes, who is an elder to me.
12:16Every time I go to Tumodi, I see her always in her woven pants.
12:19And I love that.
12:20She tells me stories about the woven pants.
12:22When she was in France, how people liked her,
12:24how she always made a difference.
12:25And that, she manages to show it, she manages to value it.
12:28And I think it's something that all our defenders have to follow.
12:31That's it.
12:32It will create wealth.
12:33We have to look at that.
12:34It will make our young people stay at home.
12:37Since they will have something to live on.
12:38They will have something to live on.
12:39They will sell their products simply.
12:41And it's good for everyone.
12:43And these pants also have a cultural history.
12:46Of course, of course.
12:47As I said before, these are not pants that were worn by everyone.
12:50Because it was the norm.
12:51It was complicated to do.
12:53It was already complicated to plant the cotton.
12:55To net the cotton.
12:56To nub the cotton.
12:58To weave the cotton.
12:59After that, weaving was a long process.
13:01And not everyone could wear the woven pants.
13:03But today, it has fallen into a public domain.
13:06It's democratized.
13:07So everyone manages to wear it.
13:09But the fact that everyone wears the pants,
13:12let's say,
13:13no matter how, between stripes,
13:15doesn't hide this traditional side?
13:23No, I don't think so.
13:24Because at some point,
13:25everyone has to be able to consume it.
13:28It's a product.
13:29It's our product.
13:30It's our baby.
13:31Everyone has to be able to consume it.
13:32Everyone has to be able to wear this pant.
13:34But it remains that there are pants that are a little more expensive.
13:39Because of the golden threads that are put in it.
13:41With the silver threads.
13:43The quality of the threads even changes.
13:46So there are pants that are much, much more expensive
13:48than the ordinary baggy pants that we know.
13:51So there's always a differentiation.
13:53If you think you're a VIP,
13:54it's not for you.
13:56Can we talk about a certain economic importance
13:59of this African style in the local communities?
14:02Yes, of course.
14:04You know, today,
14:05I think the big difficulty at their level
14:08is that the raw material doesn't come from us.
14:10It's a shame.
14:11We have cotton here,
14:12but the cotton they use doesn't come from us.
14:14If our cotton here was transformed by ourselves,
14:17it would create a lot of wealth.
14:20Because the cotton won't make the trip from here
14:23to go to China or the United States.
14:25It will stay here.
14:26We're going to transform it here.
14:28So it creates jobs.
14:29Because the value chain becomes longer.
14:31Because taking the cotton from the seed
14:35and making it a fabric and a garment,
14:38it's a long process.
14:40And that's where the wealth is created.
14:42And if we bring it elsewhere,
14:43and make it transform elsewhere,
14:44well, it's serious.
14:45Imagine,
14:46there's a simple calculation we did.
14:48The kilo of cotton, which is 600 francs,
14:51which is 600 francs,
14:52when it's transformed and comes back,
14:54a shirt makes you, let's say,
14:57300 to 400 grams.
14:59So let's say a kilo of cotton makes you two shirts.
15:02A shirt today,
15:04the minimum you can pay is 10,000.
15:07That's it, right?
15:0910,000.
15:10So the guy,
15:11you sell it to him for 600,
15:13he comes and sells you the shirt for 10,000.
15:15Can you see the margin?
15:16And this shirt,
15:17when it's made by African designers,
15:19the price goes up.
15:20The price goes up.
15:21I say 10,000,
15:22but there are shirts that come in pure cotton,
15:25simple cotton.
15:26It's 200, 300 euros.
15:28So we paid just one euro
15:30for a kilo of cotton.
15:32That's where the wealth is created.
15:34That's where the wealth is created.
15:36And I think that if we understand,
15:39if we start investing money,
15:41it's quick.
15:42And I attended a meeting yesterday,
15:45it's been almost two years
15:47that the government has designated
15:49the cotton sector as a priority sector.
15:51So there are a lot of things
15:53that are being prepared,
15:54at least until December next year,
15:56there are a lot of things that are being done.
15:58So that,
15:59in fact,
16:00makes me happy
16:01because we have spent 20 years saying
16:02that textile can create wealth.
16:04There is money in the textile.
16:07All the Asian countries we know,
16:09even next to Morocco,
16:11they don't go to Morocco
16:12without taking a bit of Moroccan.
16:14There is the Egyptian cotton,
16:15which is the most expensive cotton in the world
16:17because it is a little longer than our fiber,
16:19but they make a lot of money in it.
16:21People just have to understand
16:23that it's a real industry,
16:25it's an industry that gives a lot of money.
16:28Yesterday I told a director
16:30that the one who is good at manufacturing,
16:33who is really invested in manufacturing,
16:35he is more than a dealer.
16:37He is more than a dealer
16:38because he has the minute.
16:39He has the minute
16:40and there is a lot of money in it.
16:41We just have to get organized,
16:42we just have to understand
16:43that we get organized
16:44and that we get into a dynamic
16:46of creating jobs,
16:47creating wealth.
16:48You will see that the Ivory Coast
16:50will really start.
16:52Very well.
16:53So I don't know if it is
16:54in the same vein,
16:55but in 2017,
16:56during the 52nd Annual Assembly
16:58of the African Development Bank,
17:00the stylist Modélis Pateo said this,
17:02I quote,
17:03Africa produces cotton,
17:05but this cotton does not remain chenon.
17:07And also,
17:08Africa can dress Africa.
17:11Does that tell you anything?
17:12Of course.
17:13Of course,
17:14because Pateo and I,
17:15when we meet,
17:16we go around the world,
17:17we stopped for two or three hours
17:18to talk about it
17:19because it's embarrassing.
17:21It means that we produce cotton,
17:23we don't have cotton at home,
17:25we use cotton
17:26and everyone knows,
17:27everyone doesn't care,
17:28everyone is happy.
17:29It's not normal.
17:30It's really not normal.
17:31And we are at the end of the chain.
17:33Pateo, for example,
17:34he is in the manufacturing,
17:36he is not in textile production.
17:38He is in textile production,
17:40even if there is money.
17:41But it's still industries
17:43that are very, very expensive.
17:45It's millions of euros of investment,
17:47so it's complicated for an individual to do it.
17:49But today,
17:50I think that with everything
17:52we have as a sustainable development approach,
17:54Africans have to position themselves
17:56to take their part.
17:57I have a book coming out in December
17:59where I talk about sustainability,
18:01how Africa can seize
18:03the sustainable economy
18:04to create its industry,
18:05not the industries we know.
18:07I'm not talking about an industry
18:09where an individual has 10,000 people
18:11and it's built.
18:12No.
18:13I'm talking about a green industry,
18:15a fair industry,
18:16where an individual can produce
18:18what he needs
18:19and trade will be fair.
18:21And you will see that
18:22this is where we will talk about development
18:24because it is our way of developing.
18:26I don't want to understand
18:27that people are sitting
18:28at the other end of the world in Asia
18:30and they receive all our cotton.
18:32There are so many things to say about it.
18:35I wanted to talk about this sustainable industry,
18:38the green industry,
18:40and how the return to the roots,
18:43to the tests,
18:44can contribute to this more sustainable world.
18:48Exactly.
18:49You just have to go back to the past.
18:52What did our parents do?
18:54They didn't use chemical dye.
18:56No, not at all.
18:58Cotton was organic.
18:59They planted cotton.
19:00It's true,
19:01it will have insects and all that.
19:03What's left is sulfur, largely.
19:06But when you put in the insects,
19:08you put water,
19:09it pollutes.
19:10And then it costs a lot to nature.
19:12It costs a lot to nature
19:13because then we create tests
19:16that are not biodegradable.
19:18So we pollute more,
19:19we create more noise,
19:20we throw all that in nature
19:22and nature can't absorb it.
19:23And then that's what creates
19:25all the climate degradation and all that.
19:28But manufacturing is one of the biggest polluters in the world.
19:31One of the biggest polluters in the world.
19:33And then there's the fuel industry and others.
19:36There's the fashion.
19:38So there's something to do at this level.
19:40It's true that today it's complicated
19:42to talk about big countries
19:45that are in industrial development
19:47because they only see business.
19:49They only see business.
19:50They don't care about what's going to happen,
19:52they don't care about humans.
19:53They only see business.
19:55It's at that moment that we, as Africans,
19:57we can redefine things.
19:58We can see the industry differently,
20:00by zone, for example.
20:02We can say anything.
20:03Corogo, for example,
20:04is a shirt manufacturer.
20:06We say Demogo is a cloth manufacturer.
20:08Tabatala is a pants manufacturer.
20:10Because we put everything
20:11so that they go from culture
20:14to the final product.
20:16Nobody is going to move.
20:18Nobody is going to move.
20:19Because the guy is on the spot
20:21and he has what he has.
20:22He has his money.
20:23Today we don't need to move.
20:25The Internet is there.
20:26You have your connection, you see everything.
20:27You do everything in the whole world.
20:28And that's how Africa can develop.
20:30And as I said,
20:31I have two books that will be released in December,
20:34if the publisher is ready,
20:35on the development of Iraq,
20:36and on fashion itself.
20:38How can fashion make the Ivory Coast
20:41a city where there are no unemployed people?
20:43Very well.
20:44And also,
20:45we remind you that fashion is co-responsible
20:48according to the battles of Etani.
20:50Of course.
20:51It's the basis,
20:52it's the essence of all this.
20:53Because afterwards,
20:54if we don't talk about durability,
20:56it's not even worth talking about.
20:58Because everything is ephemeral.
21:00Our organizations,
21:01our ways of doing things,
21:02our ways of consuming,
21:04it's pollution at all times,
21:06at all times.
21:07And so,
21:08at some point,
21:09you have to realize that
21:10instead of throwing a t-shirt in the trash
21:12or a dress in the trash every morning,
21:14every week,
21:15I take beautiful,
21:16high-quality outfits.
21:18And I have that for the month,
21:19I have that for the week.
21:20You will see that
21:21not only will we spend less,
21:22our wardrobes will be better arranged,
21:24we will no longer consume fast fashion,
21:26which is now taking over the whole world.
21:28Very good.
21:29So, how can young creators
21:30be encouraged
21:32to engage with textile heritage in Africa?
21:36I think that all of this
21:38will go through communication
21:40with the artisans themselves.
21:42And that's what's going to...
21:44You know,
21:45in reality,
21:46today,
21:47we have a job that makes you dream,
21:49at some point.
21:50At some point,
21:51we don't see the advertisers.
21:54We're going to make a difference,
21:55if it's a thing.
21:56So, after that,
21:57there are no landmarks.
21:58There are no landmarks.
21:59But if it's advertisers,
22:00if we start advertising
22:02on the job,
22:04on the business,
22:05so that the guys understand that,
22:06ah, it's true,
22:07that beyond seeing the guy
22:08in a Mercedes,
22:11he builds a sustainable world,
22:13he builds a company
22:14that will be permanent.
22:16Ah, there,
22:17I think I can stay in Abidjan,
22:19I'm not going to swim
22:20but I'm going to party somewhere.
22:21Because they see,
22:22they feel that it's sustainable,
22:23they feel that there's a development coming,
22:25they see the result.
22:26And so, that's where I think
22:28young people will understand
22:29that it's not just bling bling.
22:31Because even those
22:32who started doing bling bling,
22:33after,
22:34you see that it's going down.
22:35There's no organization,
22:36there's no personalization.
22:37So, after,
22:38who can stand in this thing?
22:39And so, after,
22:40well,
22:41we have to let you down.
22:42You see, today,
22:43why does everyone want to play football?
22:46We know the salaries of the players.
22:47We know.
22:49When you say that your friend
22:50has 1 billion a month,
22:51it makes you dream.
22:52Our parents hit us
22:53because we played football.
22:54But today, that's no longer the case.
22:55If the manufacturers,
22:56the creators that we are,
22:58publish our figures every year,
23:00we show what we really do,
23:02a company that's really built,
23:04a company that's in the stock market,
23:05they'll see,
23:06we don't talk anymore,
23:07they'll come.
23:08But if we stay in what we are,
23:11it remains blurred,
23:12it remains,
23:13it's not palpable,
23:14it's not,
23:15that's it,
23:16that's it.
23:17If you can put your child in a business
23:18where you can't see the head or the tail,
23:19nobody.
23:20Today, Roger Bongo,
23:21what advice could you give
23:23to these fashion enthusiasts
23:26so that they explore more and more
23:28the African style?
23:30African.
23:31No, the advice,
23:32I tell them already,
23:33the first thing I tell all these young people
23:35that I coach today,
23:36that there's a lot of money, guys,
23:37come and take it.
23:38Because they have to understand that.
23:40It's not a fashion business,
23:42it's not a fun business,
23:43it's not a protein business,
23:45it has nothing to do with it.
23:46It's your life,
23:47you're wasting your time,
23:48it has to be profitable.
23:49And to be profitable,
23:50when you enter a field,
23:51you have to understand the field,
23:52you have to know how it works.
23:54And when you know how it works,
23:55you don't suffer anymore.
23:57You don't suffer anymore.
23:58I don't need to go to the workshop
24:00to know what's being done there or not.
24:02Because we try to organize things.
24:04Now we're waiting for the ISO certification
24:08to clarify,
24:09to schematize,
24:10to systemize things.
24:11Unless when Roger Bongo is no longer there,
24:13it rolls.
24:14That's a business.
24:15But come and take two or three pieces,
24:18mention it,
24:19that's not what it's about.
24:20Really, that's not what it's about.
24:21So confession is a business like any other.
24:23Confession is engineering.
24:25It's not a business of cancer,
24:27as people thought.
24:28It's a business of the future.
24:30I do it all over the world.
24:32I have a lot of friends in several fields.
24:35When I came to introduce myself,
24:36I said,
24:37ah, no, I'm just here.
24:38But in the end,
24:39it's true that everyone comes.
24:40To say that it's a job,
24:42it's not just a job,
24:43it's loved.
24:44But you just have to go to a professional
24:47to live from it.
24:49And if you live from it,
24:50there's no problem.
24:51Very good.
24:52You are a business owner,
24:54owner of the Kora brand.
24:56How does your company contribute to
24:59promoting the work of all these craftsmen?
25:03In 2017, I created the Roger Bongo Foundation,
25:06which is a foundation that aims to
25:08train and teach.
25:11We don't train to train,
25:12because that's the difficulty.
25:13Training and teaching.
25:15And so, we try to give exemplarity.
25:19I was called up three times.
25:21And I always say,
25:23it's not normal that you're here
25:26while the government is putting
25:28a lot of things in place for you.
25:31Go ahead.
25:32Formalize yourself.
25:33Take your share of the cake.
25:35Take your share of the cake.
25:36No one will do that for you.
25:37It's not a matter of cost of clothing.
25:39It's over.
25:40When you're a business owner,
25:41it's not the product that's the problem.
25:42The product is the customer.
25:43How do you manage to attract customers?
25:45How do you manage to maintain customers?
25:47How do you manage to multiply your customers?
25:49That's all.
25:50But if they're sitting on their machines,
25:52thinking it's a waste of time.
25:55No, it's dead.
25:56Very good.
25:57In any case, I think the message has been passed
25:59and it has been received.
26:01Thank you for answering our questions.
26:04Thank you for everything you do.
26:06It's us.
26:08You got it.
26:09It's the end of this show.
26:10Thank you to everyone who followed us.
26:12Thank you to the team in charge.
26:14Fares, Arnold, Jean-Marc.
26:16See you next week for another episode.
26:19Until then, take care.