In a wide-ranging interview with Euronews in Brussel, UNRWA Gaza director Scott Anderson drew a devastating picture of the situation in the Palestinian territory, underlining acute food shortages. Without swift action, a full-blown man-made famine could afflict life in Gaza, he claimed.
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00:00It's now more than a year that the war between Israel and Hamas began, and an end is nowhere
00:13in sight.
00:14For the people in the Gaza Strip, it's a humanitarian catastrophe.
00:19Support comes mainly through the hands of the UN Relief Agency in Gaza.
00:24For the Europe Conversation, I caught up with its director to talk about the situation that
00:28becomes increasingly precarious.
00:34Our guest today is Scott Anderson, director of UNRWA Affairs in Gaza.
00:39That is the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine.
00:44Welcome to the program.
00:46It's a pleasure to be here.
00:47I appreciate you having me on.
00:48So the situation in Gaza has recently moved a bit to the back burner as there was so much
00:54going on elsewhere in the United States, in Europe.
00:58So bring us up to speed.
01:00What is the situation there right now?
01:02The situation is very difficult for people on the ground.
01:05Conditions are quite dire.
01:07It's really become a small territory of two small territories, north and south Gaza, as
01:12we call it, across the Netzerim Junction, which divides it.
01:16In the north in particular, things are very difficult.
01:19The furthest north, we haven't been able to get food to those people for over a month.
01:24There's been an ongoing operation in Jubailia, Betoun, and Batlakia for over a month.
01:29Reportedly, somewhere between 1,300 and 1,800 people have died, and we think there's probably
01:34many more in the rubble.
01:36So it's very difficult.
01:37No little food, very little water, if any.
01:41And that's also kind of what we face in the south as well.
01:44The most recent IPC report, which is a predictor of famine, shows that most people are in an
01:50emergency situation, which I don't find surprising, and that if we don't do something quickly,
01:56it could devolve into a full-blown famine, which would be a man-made condition and something
02:01that could easily be corrected if we just get enough aid in to take care of everybody.
02:05I want to come back to that famine problem later, but now I want to bring in the most
02:11recent controversy between your agency and Israel.
02:16Just two weeks ago, the Knesset passed two laws that basically banned UNRWA from Israel
02:22and East Jerusalem.
02:24How does that affect your work in Gaza?
02:27Right now, it hasn't affected it much at all, and we're very focused on the people that
02:32I talked about, you know, the 2.2 million people in Gaza, and trying to make sure that
02:36all their basic needs are met.
02:39If the bill is fully implemented, it could certainly mean that UNRWA is no longer operational
02:43in Gaza, and that could have catastrophic consequences for the people on the ground
02:48who really would, you know, bear the brunt of that decision.
02:52As an example, UNRWA does two-thirds of all primary care medical consultations in Gaza.
02:58That's between 16,000 and 17,000 daily, and that includes vaccinations for children, insulin
03:04for diabetics, hypertension drugs for people that have high blood pressure.
03:09If we're unable to operate, unable to continue bringing that aid in, that just all stops.
03:14And I said that would have potentially catastrophic situations for the people on the ground.
03:20Maybe as an information for our viewers, it's not only health care that you're providing.
03:26UNRWA also provides humanitarian aid, education, and other services.
03:31By cooperating with the local government authority, which is Hamas, a terrorist organization in
03:39the eyes of the European Union, how do you manage that?
03:42So first, we don't cooperate with them.
03:45There is a United Nations instruction that dates back to 2009, it's a no-contact policy,
03:51and what it does allow is technical cooperation, and that could mean things like we recently
03:56did a polio vaccination campaign in Gaza, the United Nations did, UNRWA played a large
04:00role in that with over 40 percent of the vaccinations.
04:03But we do coordinate with the Ministry of Health, because there's no other way you can
04:06reasonably implement.
04:08Similarly, we do coordinate when we do education with the Ministry of Education, but it is
04:13coordination, it's not cooperation, because of the reasons that you've said, including
04:18the way the UN views Hamas.
04:22So it's a very delicate act.
04:23We have to be very clear when we do meet these people, the conditions under which we're meeting.
04:29So it's, I just want to be, I guess, very clear, it's not necessarily full cooperation,
04:33it is coordination to make sure that we're meeting the basic needs of people, and we
04:38are very careful to adhere to the guidance that the UN and other member states have put
04:43forward.
04:44There is, of course, the widespread belief in Israel that UNRWA is not neutral, that
04:50it's too close to the Palestinians and Hamas, that some of the Hamas terrorists on October
04:56of last year were actually UNRWA employees.
04:59How do you respond to charges like that?
05:02Our Commissioner General, when he was informed of this, took very swift action back in January.
05:06All the cases were referred to the UN headquarters in New York, the Office of Internal Oversight,
05:12undertook the investigation on behalf of the UN, and the contracts of those staff were
05:17terminated.
05:18So where we are given evidence of staff misconduct, be it any kind of misconduct, we undertake
05:24swift investigations and we undertake swift action, as the Commissioner General did, to
05:29terminate those contracts in the interest of the agency, and those people are no longer
05:33employed with us.
05:34Yeah, I remember there were also Israeli charges that UNRWA facilities were being used to house
05:40Hamas terrorists' armament caches and administrative headquarters.
05:45In response, your agency took action to weed out Hamas terrorists from among your employees.
05:54But can you say today that UNRWA has thrown out all Hamas operatives?
05:59No, I don't think anybody can say anything with certainty about any of their workforce
06:06anywhere.
06:07We have over 13,000 people.
06:09We do take the neutrality very seriously, as shown by the Commissioner General's very
06:14swift action, but no, I can't with certainty say that's done.
06:21I don't have evidence of more, I can't say that, and if we did, we would take action.
06:27But no, we can't with certainty say that.
06:29That would be incorrect of us to do.
06:32Okay.
06:33A few days ago, the Famine Review Committee, which is part of the UN structures, the structure
06:38that monitors the hunger, global hunger and food security, called the situation in northern
06:45Gaza and I quote, extremely grave and rapidly deteriorating.
06:49It called on all actors in the war and those who have influence on these actors to take
06:55immediate action within days, not weeks.
06:58Now, have you seen any activity following this warning?
07:05Do you see that people are willing to improve the situation or not?
07:08I do think that Israel is trying to improve the situation.
07:13I think that perhaps we're not doing enough, given the findings of the Famine Committee
07:19and that there is a significant possibility that there are famine-like conditions that
07:23exist in north Gaza.
07:26We've gone through this before, unfortunately, in the north, where we were trying to feed
07:31the north from the south and it just didn't work for a variety of reasons.
07:35So with a lot of advocacy from the UN and from member states, we were able to get a
07:38crossing open from the north for the north.
07:42So we very much hope that we can start getting food to people again that are very much in
07:46need and prevent what would be a man-made famine from occurring in the north.
07:51Now, as we speak, Israeli airstrikes on Gaza, on Lebanon, continue.
08:00There are so-called safe zones in Gaza where people can go, but these zones are very often
08:06unsafe zones or even full.
08:11Give us a full picture here.
08:12What is the situation?
08:13Well, there's nowhere safe in Gaza.
08:16That's been said by many people.
08:17I would echo that.
08:19Including the safe zones?
08:20Including the safe zones.
08:22There's been strikes and bombings in the safe zone.
08:25I visited Nasser Hospital after that had happened.
08:29You walk into the emergency room, you can quite literally smell blood in the air.
08:33And there's no disinfectant to clean the floors.
08:36There's not suitable supplies to take care of the patients.
08:39I've talked to doctors that work for medical international NGOs, and they say the likelihood
08:45of infection if you go to a hospital is 100 percent because they're just not clean to
08:49a standard that we would accept.
08:52And unfortunately, all parties to the conflict are not respecting the sanctity of sites that
08:58should be safe for civilians, which includes hospitals and includes schools, both UNRWA
09:03and PA schools.
09:05And we would reiterate that call that all parties to the conflict respect the sanctity
09:09of those places so that civilians can find safety for themselves and for their families.
09:14In this town in Brussels, a lot of people think, what can the European Union do to improve
09:20the situation or help?
09:22I give that question to you.
09:24I mean, I'm here talking to the European Union.
09:26I've done a couple of briefings today, and the European Union has a lot of member states
09:30and they do have influence politically.
09:32They have significant influence politically globally, including in Israel.
09:37And I do think that their voices will be heard if they ask for improvements in the situation
09:41as the U.S.
09:42Government has done.
09:43And I think the more people that are asking and the more requests that Israel gets, I
09:48think the more seriously they would take it.
09:51So that was the message I had for the European Union.
09:54We need funding to continue for UNRWA and all the other humanitarian partners on the
09:58ground because the needs are only growing more.
10:01They're not lessening.
10:03And I don't see that situation changing anywhere in the near future.
10:06Are you sure about the European influence?
10:09I do believe that, yeah.
10:10We have a bloc of many countries.
10:12If they speak with one voice, I think it carries weight.
10:16And when they have spoken, one of the initial readings of the Knesset bill that we talked
10:21about earlier was going to declare UNRWA a terrorist organization.
10:24The European Union spoke very strongly against that, and it was removed.
10:28So I do believe that they have influence.
10:30I believe they are listened to, and they're still a very important player in global politics.
10:36You told me earlier that you have, as I understand, regular talks with the IDF, the Israeli Defense
10:43Forces.
10:44Can you tell us a bit how these talks look like, and what are you trying to accomplish?
10:50Yeah.
10:51I mean, first, I think the talks are respectful and friendly.
10:55I first came to Gaza in 2008, and I know a lot of the people that work in the IDF and
11:00COGAD in particular since then.
11:03And it's a relationship of mutual respect and trust.
11:07And what we're discussing is we both want the same thing.
11:11Perhaps we want to achieve it differently, but we both want the same thing, which is
11:14to alleviate the suffering of civilians in Gaza.
11:18That's what COGAD exists for, is to help make that happen.
11:21That's why the UN is there.
11:23And what we're trying to do in these conversations is figure out solutions to the challenges
11:27that we both face.
11:29Sometimes there's not an easy solution.
11:31We'll agree to disagree on the best way to approach it.
11:34But I do think that's what we're all trying to strive for, is how do we get more aid to
11:38the civilian population in Gaza.
11:41While we hope very soon there's a ceasefire to the larger conflict, the hostages can go
11:45home to their families, and we can finally start to rebuild Gaza.
11:49All right.
11:50Scott Anderson, director of UNRWA in the Gaza Strip.
11:53Thank you so much for this conversation.
11:55Thank you so much.