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00:00So Maddie, thank you for joining me today to talk about seasonal affective disorder
00:06and daylight saving time.
00:07Daylight saving time is going to end over the weekend and it becomes that dreaded part
00:11of the year where you get ready to leave the office at five o'clock or shut off the computer
00:17if you're working from home at five o'clock and all of a sudden it's dark out.
00:21So what do you see with people in terms of how much of an impact that can have on their
00:26lives?
00:27I think it has a big impact, I think, on a lot of people and actually for quite a while.
00:33I think we're all pretty used to, especially in the Pittsburgh area, that change coming
00:39and kind of our energy levels and our mood all just kind of drooping a little bit.
00:43And just some people are more affected than others by this.
00:46And why is it?
00:48Yeah.
00:49So, I mean, a lot of that can have to do actually with just our circadian rhythms and there
00:55being sort of just like too much darkness sort of in the environment during this time.
01:01Our bodies, like internal clock, which kind of controls everything we do, our sleep and
01:05our energy, you know, it really is based off of like sunlight and it's impacted most by
01:11that light.
01:12So when we have kind of that big dip where we start getting more darkness in the winter,
01:18it can have obviously a lot of impact on our bodies.
01:21So what can people do?
01:23I mean, it's one thing to, you know, if you have a problem with something to stop doing
01:28something or to start doing something, but there's really not much you can do when what
01:32you're talking about is completely out of your control.
01:34Right.
01:35There's not a lot to be done about.
01:36It's getting dark out early.
01:38Yeah.
01:39Right.
01:40I think something that is helpful for a lot of people is making sure they are getting
01:44adequate light, especially in the morning.
01:47So in the morning, that's getting outside.
01:51That's having your window open in the morning, letting that light sort of get into your home.
01:56This morning light is really important for trying to maintain like our circadian rhythms,
02:00which will help like your sleep and maintain your energy levels.
02:04So I think that's one of just the most easy things people can kind of start doing, especially
02:09during like these fall and winter months when we are losing light.
02:13What about blue lights?
02:15I read that that's part of the solution, but we've been told over the years that blue light
02:20is bad, especially at night.
02:23Yes.
02:24I think the timing piece there is really, really important.
02:28I mean, our daylight outside, when we see that like there is blue light in this light
02:32that we just have outside, and that is very important.
02:35But blue light in the evening when, you know, our body is thinking it should be it should
02:41be bedtime.
02:42Like we want to go to sleep in a couple hours, but we have all the lights on in our house.
02:46Like that's really confusing for our bodies.
02:48Right.
02:49So trying to make trying to limit the blue light, especially in the evening, these couple
02:54hours before bed is also really important for kind of keeping a stable sleep schedule
02:59during this time and stabilizing your energy as well.
03:03So going back to what you were saying earlier, then, for example, I have on most of my devices
03:08the setting that it will turn off the blue light between sunlight, excuse me, between
03:13sunrise, sunset and sunrise.
03:16Excuse me.
03:17So should we change those automatic settings so that if we're working on the computer,
03:20maybe it's six o'clock in the morning, that we don't have that effect so that we do have
03:24the blue light coming on?
03:26Yes, I think that is helpful.
03:28But of course, there are some people that blue light can really, you know, for some
03:32people it causes a lot of eye strain or headaches.
03:34So it's also kind of taking that into consideration and sort of limiting sort of your time on
03:39these devices.
03:41But I think in the morning, that's when the light is most important.
03:45In the evening, it's less so important.
03:48Let me ask you this, too, because this just occurred to me as we were talking.
03:52So it seems to me that the worst months of the year for this are November and December.
03:56And as soon as you sort of get to January, I just remember starting to leave the office
04:00around 530 in January, there's still some daylight out.
04:03It may be gone by the time you get home, but there's daylight.
04:07The other thing that happens November and December is the holiday season.
04:11So what tips would you have for people who are, you know, concerned about that and for
04:18their loved ones as well during the holiday season?
04:20Because this is the time of year when you may see people that you don't typically see
04:23the remaining 10 months out of the year.
04:26Yeah, and I'm sure like people have like they want to be, you know, their best selves and
04:31they want to be able to enjoy this time with their families, right?
04:35I think it's trying to keep trying to keep consistency in your schedule, trying to make
04:40sure you are getting light in the morning and trying to make sure you're staying active
04:44during the day.
04:46I think all of these things are really important for just making sure that we feel sort of
04:52our best day to day.
04:54And also keeping up social engagement, just being around like other people, you know,
04:59this is also really important, especially during this time, because a lot of people
05:03can start noticing sort of the dips in their mood, or maybe they usually do more activities
05:08outside.
05:09But now since it's getting colder out, they kind of have to transition that.
05:12So it's kind of figuring out, keeping yourself active and thinking about things you can do,
05:17perhaps like inside, that still keeps you active, though.
05:21Would you recommend trying to maybe get away for 15 minutes during the course of the day
05:25if you can go outside for a walk?
05:27I mean, there's, there's no guarantee in Pittsburgh, there's going to be any sunshine, but would
05:31that at least help?
05:32Do you think?
05:33That does help.
05:34Even if we don't have, you know, direct sunshine, there still is enough light, you know, outdoors
05:38to be giving us like some real benefit, definitely.
05:43What tips would you recommend for people to realize that this is something to be on the
05:47lookout for that this may affect them?
05:49You know, there's always the danger of, you know, it used to be the old days, pulling
05:53out the medical encyclopedia and diagnosing something.
05:55And now it's people going online and diagnosing something.
05:59How do you know that you're, you're, you're dealing with SAD?
06:04Yeah.
06:05So yeah.
06:06So seasonal affective disorder.
06:07Yeah.
06:08So like I said, I think the normal dips in mood and energy are really common, but like,
06:11yeah.
06:12How do you know if it's just, if it's just that, or if it's becoming something a little
06:15bit more serious, right?
06:18So I think with like seasonal affective disorder, again, this is like the emergence of like
06:22these depressive symptoms during the winter, during the months where the light levels are
06:27low.
06:28This looks very similar to regular depression.
06:32You know, SAD makes up about, about maybe like one fifth the cases of depression.
06:39So it looks really, it looks very similar.
06:41So what we're looking for is this kind of this lower mood, this flat mood, this loss
06:46of interest, your appetite being changed or like your sleep changing, really low energy.
06:53And the important kind of piece here is that this is really like persistent.
06:57It's lasting, you know, most of the day, nearly every day for several weeks.
07:02So if you find yourself kind of falling into that category, you may be like someone that's
07:07more like susceptible to seasonal affective disorder.
07:11And do you see people who are dealing with this, you know, for the entire several months
07:15that we adjust the clocks?
07:18You do.
07:19Yeah.
07:20The winter.
07:21I mean, I think, you know, the folks that are listening to this and it's resonating
07:24with them, like they know, like every single winter, this kind of comes up for them.
07:28Yeah.
07:29There's definitely.
07:30Definitely.
07:31If you see, if you know somebody who is like that, that somebody you work with or a member
07:37of your family or so that, you know, every winter, they just become really hard to deal
07:43with sometimes.
07:44Yeah, no, it definitely, it can be difficult and it's hard to kind of figure out like what
07:50you should do.
07:51I think the best thing to do is just be checking in with like the people that you care about,
07:57you know, seeing if maybe they should go talk to a doctor.
08:00Maybe you have like, I think even just listening to this and just getting more of this information
08:05sort of out for like people to be hearing about is also just really important for kind
08:10of normalizing this as well.
08:13And what about in terms of any over-the-counter supplements or anything, do you recommend
08:16people look into those things, like something like St. John's wort or something along those
08:21lines, L-theanine, if there's another option?
08:25Yeah.
08:26I mean, I'm definitely not familiar with like any supplements or anything.
08:30And of course that should be something, you know, discussed with your doctor.
08:34Of course, if that, you know, seems to be the cause, I know a lot of the times vitamin
08:37D can certainly be an issue for people and, you know, your doctors, that's something that
08:43can be tested for and, you know, supplements can be, can be prescribed by your doctor.
08:47Okay.
08:48So let me know, because I understand you, your clinic is really the only one in Western
08:54Pennsylvania or Pennsylvania as a whole that deals with SAD.
08:58So can you tell us what people should do if they want to find out more directly from you?
09:04Yeah.
09:05So from us, yeah.
09:06I actually, I did not know that we were the only one, but yeah.
09:10So our lab, you know, we work a lot with seasonal affective disorder.
09:14I want to say, I don't think we're always like the best in terms of like resources.
09:21We certainly at my program in general, I'm a PhD student at Pitt and I work in their
09:28clinical psychology center.
09:30I know we see a lot of people with depression and we also, you know, we give out referrals
09:34for people all the time.
09:36So that's certainly, that is certainly an option.
09:39Okay.
09:41All right.
09:42Well, thank you for joining me today.
09:43I do appreciate it.
09:44And hopefully we can all keep our spirits up over the next few months or so.
09:47Yeah.
09:48And thank you so much.
09:50Yeah.
09:51Bye-bye.