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00:00Welcome to today's town hall, Money Manipulation, Exploring Economic Abuse in Black Relationships,
00:15presented by Ujima and the Allstate Foundation in partnership with Essence.
00:20We are here today to have a transparent, fruitful, and much-needed conversation.
00:25Please welcome our esteemed panelists, Himya Motley, CCO of A Call to Men, Cherise Kimbrough,
00:33Allstate Foundation Senior Manager and Relationship Abuse Program Officer, Karma Cotman, CEO of
00:40Ujima, and Kimberly Wilson, Essence Senior Editor and today's host.
00:48As many of us know, relationship abuse is a pervasive issue within the United States.
00:53When we think about one in four women and one in seven men experience domestic violence
00:59at some point within their life.
01:02Black women are three times more likely to die at the hands of an intimate partner or
01:07an ex-partner.
01:09Intimate partner homicide is among the leading causes of death for black women between the
01:13ages of 15 and 35.
01:16Domestic violence among African-American teens is twice the rate of white teens.
01:21So ladies, I'm excited to jump right in and Himya, I'm actually going to start with you.
01:27So as a survivor, you have bravely shared your story with Essence readers in the past.
01:35Can you just talk more about your personal experience and how financial abuse played
01:40a role in what you have experienced?
01:42I can definitely do that.
01:44I met and married the man that I thought would be the man of my dreams.
01:51We got married pretty quickly.
01:54Within a year of that marriage, different forms of abuse I encountered because he did
02:02those things to me.
02:05By the third year, I decided, okay, I want to go ahead and get a divorce.
02:10Not knowing that I needed a safety plan or anything of that nature, I just told him that
02:15I wanted a divorce.
02:18He met me outside my daughter's daycare center.
02:23When we got out of the car, he shot me four times with a .38.
02:27He shot me in my face here, in my neck, in the back of my head, and in my back.
02:37He went on to shoot my then 10-year-old daughter one time in the head as well.
02:43The wonderful thing about that is that we both survived.
02:46You would never be able to tell that those things happened today.
02:50I'm sitting here before all of you now, and my daughter is a culinary student.
02:55She's the number one reason I can't stick to my diet points because she bakes such wonderful
03:02things.
03:03A lot of times I tell people that I didn't just wake up one day to get shot by my husband
03:09because people will say, oh, wow, your case is so extreme.
03:13It didn't begin that way.
03:15It started building over time and specifically around the realm of economic abuse.
03:20When we were dating, he did a great job of partnering with me financially.
03:25The moment we got married, he said, I need to control the finances.
03:30Six months later, my house was in foreclosure.
03:35My minivan had been repossessed.
03:38There were times I had to go to the neighbor's house to take showers or even cook a meal
03:43for my children because he did not know how to handle finances whatsoever.
03:50I'll add one other thing to that.
03:54When I think about the men in his life and how they probably could have stepped in at
03:58times to intervene, I remember when we were dating that I went to go meet his parents
04:04and I told his parents, particularly his dad, what a wonderful man he was.
04:10When we went back to visit one year later, his father said, do you remember when you
04:15came to visit and you told us what a wonderful son we had raised?
04:19He said, I started to tell you then he was allergic to paying bills.
04:25How do you like him now?
04:27Well, one, thank you so much for sharing that story with each of us here today.
04:33You have dedicated your life now to this topic and this mission.
04:39How did you get involved and what kind of just keeps you going?
04:42Yes.
04:43Well, honestly, after going through something like that, I thought men were the enemy.
04:49And then I heard our CEO, Tony Porter, give a conversation about the man box.
04:54And I thought, now this is different.
04:56I want to hear this.
04:59I want to know more about it.
05:01And I started doing some training with them, but I was still watching them because I'm
05:06not certain are you one way when you're talking about male socialization in another way, you
05:13know, a staff and all the men.
05:17And I mean, all of them on our job come to work every day and say, I'm ready to end violence
05:23against women and girls.
05:24I'm ready to prevent violence against women and girls.
05:26And they come on fire and watching them interact not only with us, but other women that we're
05:31working with in such a healthy way.
05:34It heals me.
05:35And it motivates me to want to keep doing this work.
05:39I knew nothing about what domestic violence was, nothing.
05:43I did not know that this was violence.
05:46I couldn't name it as that.
05:48I thought this was what you go through in a relationship.
05:51So those two things.
05:53Thank you so much.
05:54Charisse, I'm actually going to turn it over to you because Kimia shared her story, this
06:00idea around economic abuse.
06:03Can you share more for those who don't know what that is and how it shows up in relationships?
06:07Sure.
06:08And I just want to echo what you said and to thank my sister Kimia for sharing her story
06:13so bravely and courageously.
06:14And so thank you for that.
06:16So financial abuse really is when one person tries to control, manipulate, or restrict
06:22another person's ability to earn, use, or accumulate financial resources and assets.
06:28So that can look like anything from job interference, which can look like preventing somebody physically
06:33from going to work or incessantly calling and texting someone while at work.
06:38It can look like showing up to that person's job and making a disruption so that they cannot
06:42work.
06:43It can also mean school interference or career advancement interference.
06:48It can look like withholding resources, controlling all the resources, putting someone on an allowance
06:53without a mutual consent agreed upon payment.
06:57So financial abuse really occurs in lots of ways.
07:00But as Kimia said, she didn't recognize it then.
07:03And a lot of Americans don't.
07:05Studies show that 78% of Americans don't recognize financial abuse as a form of domestic violence,
07:11yet it occurs in 99% of domestic violence cases.
07:15There's a recent study that we commissioned that one of our partners did that shows that
07:19survivors reported a median of $0 in savings and only $172.50 that they could access without
07:29their abusive partner knowing.
07:31And I also want to say it's important to note that this crosses socioeconomic backgrounds.
07:35I think sometimes we think it only happens to certain kinds of folks who only have a
07:39certain kind of education level or a certain kind of economic status.
07:42But the truth is, it happens across the socioeconomic status.
07:46And in particular, in our community, in the Black community, it happens no matter how
07:50many degrees you have, where you live, what kind of car you drive, how big your bank account
07:55is, everyone is subject to financial abuse.
07:59And you make a great point.
08:00It shows up in so many different types of relationships.
08:04But for you, Karma, how does this differ?
08:08How does financial abuse differ for Black women specifically?
08:11Absolutely.
08:12Well, thank you.
08:14And again, I want to echo the appreciation to you, Kimia.
08:18Thank you so much for sharing your story and bringing voice to an issue that we know exists,
08:23but we don't often get to see it.
08:25And so I really appreciate you being here and thank you for sharing.
08:28You're welcome.
08:30And as my sister Cherie said, financial abuse is really apparent across socioeconomic levels,
08:37but does look different for Black women.
08:40And it shows up and manifests differently for us because Black women, aside from not
08:45being seen as victims, there are the overlay of massage noir, we're seen as lazy.
08:51When you have situations where someone is calling your job and putting your job in jeopardy,
08:58it's not seen as abuse, it's just seen as something that we do, right?
09:02And so then we have to dispel and explain why this situation is dangerous and what the
09:07layers of violence are.
09:09And so then that impacts us individually, but it impacts us collectively.
09:14In addition to that, when you're talking about middle class Black women, we're not offered
09:18the same resources.
09:19And so when we talk about the realization around what Black women experience, it's not just
09:25the dynamics of bias externally.
09:28There's also challenges within our community that we have to be honest about.
09:32Very often for Black women, when you have someone who's supporting you, the first thing
09:35your girlfriend is going to say is, girl, you better stick with that man because you
09:39got somebody.
09:40You got a good man to pay your bills, right?
09:43And so we experience that pressure from family, from friends.
09:46So the overlay of systemic bias, racism, oppression with what happens to us internally in our
09:53family and friends creates a system for Black women where we feel like there's no place
09:57to turn.
09:58Wow.
10:00One in four women, one in seven men, which means all of us know somebody, right, personally
10:06who has been impacted by some form of domestic abuse, financial abuse.
10:12I would love it if each one of you could share maybe some things that we all could do.
10:17One of the things that is important, so I want to talk specifically to the men, right?
10:22It's wonderful that we're all together as women.
10:24We're having this conversation, but what's missing is that men are not having these types
10:29of conversations.
10:30I remember I was a teacher, you know, at the time, and I would try to explain to my principal,
10:36who's male, what was going on, and he would say, whatever's happening to you at home,
10:43you need to leave that in the parking lot before you come in here.
10:47That would have been a very real opportunity for him to step in and say, here are resources
10:53that we have at the county.
10:55Here's some counseling that I can offer you, anything of that nature.
10:59And we need more men having, like I said, having the conversations, being willing to
11:03call their friends in and say, I noticed that you said this about your partner or that about
11:09your partner, not on our watch.
11:12We need more of that.
11:16And then just kind of piggybacking off of how Kimia shared that her employer could have
11:21been more supportive.
11:23All employers, everybody employs survivors, whether they know that they do or not, just
11:28based on the statistics.
11:29So if you start with that framework and then think about and consider, how can I, as an
11:33employer, as a manager, support somebody on my team and my company and my organization
11:38that may be a survivor?
11:40Absolutely.
11:42When I think about family and friends, we play a critical role in supporting survivors.
11:48And I'd say, if you do nothing else, start with believing and trusting.
11:53We have got to believe survivors when they say that they're in a violent situation or
11:59when they start to talk about what's happening in their homes.
12:02And we've got to trust that they're the experts in their situation.
12:05And as Kimia's story shares, that is the single most dangerous time for a survivor is the
12:11moment that they leave.
12:13And then there is the financial aspect, where what Cherie said is real about people not
12:19having sufficient funds to take care of themselves, to take care of their families.
12:24And what do we do as women?
12:26We put everybody first, right?
12:28And so if we don't feel like we can take care of our family, if we don't feel like we have
12:32the financial support, then we will sacrifice our safety.
12:35And so one of the things that we've got to be able to do is to help out survivors when
12:40there is the discussion about what's happening in your home that is not limited to your physical
12:46safety, that we're talking about your emotional safety, and we're also talking about your
12:50financial safety, and that that's a part and a component of the safety plan.
12:56And then I think it's also critically important for us as family, as friends, as community,
13:01as employers, to know that all of these other pieces around manipulation are existing in
13:08that home, in that relationship.
13:10This person is being told, you know, you're not worthy.
13:14I will make sure that you are not safe.
13:17You cannot manage money.
13:19And so when all of those things are happening, it's important for us to not pile on.
13:23And for Black women, particularly for Black women, that is an experience that we have
13:29all had, right?
13:30Where we are told that we've got to put safety behind a real insurance that we're protecting
13:38Black men.
13:39Yes.
13:40May I add something to that as well?
13:41When I think about my friends in my circle, there's a stigma of us having the strong Black
13:48woman, the strong Black woman syndrome, right?
13:52I think they were ill-informed as well, and so they were ill-informing me.
13:57No one ever called it abuse.
13:59They just thought, well, you're not strong enough to handle him.
14:02You need to get a backbone.
14:03You need to be stronger.
14:05And that's such deadly advice, you know, to give people.
14:10And to your point, Kimya, it's not supposed to happen to us, right?
14:13This victimization is not something that we are supposed to experience.
14:17And when you're looking at middle-class Black women, it's definitely not supposed to happen
14:22to us.
14:23And what happens is, for middle-class Black women, we tend not to share when the situation
14:28is happening in our homes because it's not happening to us.
14:30So when we do reach out, we're at a higher lethality, right?
14:34That's when you start to see that we're more likely to be murdered because we've waited
14:39so long to reach out.
14:41And now we're at a critical point in which we're having to seek services and seek support.
14:47Absolutely.
14:48So we talk about the people around us, right, especially in the dating phase and the courting
14:55stage.
14:56And I think, Karma, you mentioned this earlier.
14:57People will be like, that's a good man, Savannah.
14:59You know, just keep that good man, you know?
15:03And with that, we ignore so many red flags for the sake of keeping a man or maintaining
15:10a relationship.
15:11Kimya, I would love to hear from you just what are some red flags that we should be
15:17looking for in these early stages of dating before you get too serious?
15:22Just what are some things that we should be looking out for?
15:25In terms of when we're thinking about the economic aspect of it, I have two things I
15:32could share.
15:33So if I began with my ex-husband, if I had to go back and look at it again, I would see
15:38he was not prepared to take on a marriage type of relationship.
15:44You're not really stable economically.
15:48Your financial situation is not the best.
15:51I probably would have taken my time in that relationship because it made it easy for him
15:56to begin to use my own personal finances.
16:00The other thing that people don't really think about is when they are men of means and they
16:06come in immediately and they're buying you large gifts, and they want to take you on
16:12big trips.
16:13And I mean, like literally you've known him a month and you want to take me to Aruba,
16:17something's wrong with that.
16:18Those grand, sweeping, financial, romantic gestures should throw off or some kind of
16:25alarm in your head going, why is he moving so fast?
16:31As heavy as all this is, there is real joy in it.
16:36There is real light at the end of the tunnel.
16:38There is real light in the daily walk of it all.
16:41There is real light and joy in our community.
16:44And as much as we're talking about the challenges that we have in relationships and we're saying,
16:49we're talking about black men, we love black men.
16:54And so we've got to be able to say, at the same time that I'm going to protect you, I'm
17:00also going to hold you accountable.
17:02Because one of the things that's so important, and I think we all will agree, is we can't
17:08sacrifice our daughters to save our sons.
17:11This is about keeping black women safe and also keeping black men safe.
17:16And then we recognize that if we're not safe, they're not safe.
17:19If we're harmed, they're harmed.
17:20And so this is about the whole of our community being well.
17:24And that, for me, brings me joy.
17:30♪♪♪