SAN MARTÍN: POLICÍAS Y MENORES A LOS TIROS
Cinco jóvenes, de entre 15 y 17 años, ingresaron a un domicilio con fines de robo. Al llegar la policía al lugar, los delincuentes abrieron fuego contra los oficiales.
️ @NahuelSuarez3p ️ @estevesdiego
Seguí en Alerta 24/7
a24.com/vivo
Cinco jóvenes, de entre 15 y 17 años, ingresaron a un domicilio con fines de robo. Al llegar la policía al lugar, los delincuentes abrieron fuego contra los oficiales.
️ @NahuelSuarez3p ️ @estevesdiego
Seguí en Alerta 24/7
a24.com/vivo
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NewsTranscript
00:00San Martín, very close to Villa La Rana, what you know.
00:07Five, and I'm going to call them by their name, criminals,
00:12even if later they go to the cross and are children.
00:16Five criminals, ages 15, 16, 17, 15, 15.
00:27They enter a house for the purpose of robbery.
00:31Called 911, police personnel come.
00:36When they arrive at the place, these muggers
00:42open fire against the humanity of the police.
00:47At this moment, Sergeant Escalante, the one you are seeing there,
00:52with a shot in the neck, is fighting for his life.
00:56They were going to put the mobile H a while ago,
00:58but his health condition would not bear the vibrations of a rotor.
01:03Ah, the helicopter, you say.
01:05Of course, the mobile H is the helicopter, sorry.
01:07It would not bear his condition.
01:12They are moving him at this moment with an ambulance,
01:17in a serious condition.
01:19There you have it in the image.
01:24Another of the ...
01:28Let's see.
01:29This is the moment of the operation, right?
01:34After the shooting.
01:37There were five criminals.
01:40All minors?
01:42All minors, all, absolutely all.
01:46There you have it, look at the image.
01:4814 years old.
01:49Let's avoid the names, right?
01:51Unfortunately, you have to blur the faces.
01:53You have to avoid the names because they are all minors.
01:57Homicides, murderers and thieves.
02:00But minors.
02:03There are two of them.
02:05For the law, the 14 and 15-year-old do not understand what they did.
02:12The criminality of the act.
02:13Yes, of course, they do not understand what they did.
02:15These filthy filth that today makes a policeman fight for his life.
02:25Another of the policemen, when he is going to reduce,
02:30receives a shot in the leg that comes out through the butt.
02:37And for not shooting him,
02:42he puts his back as to be able to fold back
02:46and receives three shots in the back that hit the vest.
02:50That's why he's alive.
02:51The 14-year-old did that?
02:53There are several.
02:55Ah, there are several.
02:56Because you have to take care and protect the minors.
02:59How many are there in total?
03:00Five minors.
03:0114, 16 years old?
03:0314, 17.
03:04Ah, 17, okay.
03:05When you talk about minors and justice,
03:07you have to talk about the degree of maturity.
03:09These minors are going to interview the judge,
03:11the judge is going to interview the parents,
03:14and they are going to determine the degree of maturity of these minors.
03:19I mean, is it more dangerous for a minor
03:22who is known to be unaccused than an adult?
03:26Look, the truth is...
03:28Does he have less notion?
03:29No, everyone understands everything.
03:31It's a lie when they tell you...
03:33But for the negative, I mean.
03:34There is a reality here,
03:35and we have to start understanding it once and for all.
03:40Unfortunately, but very unfortunately,
03:44the codes with which we govern or are governed,
03:49judges and prosecutors,
03:52date from the 1800s.
03:55Yes?
03:56And I think that a 14, 15-year-old boy in the 1800s was one thing,
04:02and I think that in the 20s, 24s, it's another thing.
04:07They think differently, they move differently.
04:10Everything is different.
04:12So we have to regulate
04:16or get used to the times we live in.
04:19Because you have to explain to the children of minors
04:23that a 14-year-old boy doesn't know what he did
04:26and has a bullet in his father's neck.
04:29Explain to the family of the police officer
04:32or the police officer who has a bullet in his leg.
04:37So, it has to be understood once and for all.
04:41And I don't care what you say.
04:44No, but you don't realize that this boy...
04:47This boy is the ball.
04:52There is a police officer who fights for his life today.
04:55Why?
04:59For going to repel a crime.
05:03That's why.
05:07There are two who are fugitives, they are identified,
05:09but the same thing is going to happen, people.
05:11We are talking about minors.
05:15That's good.
05:16The truth is that I know him,
05:19I know the police officer who acted,
05:23of those types that you can't blame the police officer for anything.
05:27That he doesn't look to the side.
05:29They don't look to the side.
05:31That he doesn't turn around.
05:33That he has a vocation for service.
05:35That they are police officers.
05:36That's what they should all have.
05:37And that they are police officers.
05:40I think I have it online to Zakir, right?
05:43Yes.
05:44That's why I said it's good, right?
05:46It is very necessary to listen to a guy who understands laws,
05:50a guy who understands laws, a minority regime.
05:54Because, of course, one from Akanagwe
05:56and the people from his house and his seven children
05:58have to be in prison.
06:00More than a minority regime, more than inimputability.
06:03In prison.
06:04Let's see, they went, they got the gun,
06:07they planned a crime, they went to the house,
06:09they went in and arranged everything,
06:11and it was proven because they didn't surrender
06:14when they heard the high police officer.
06:16They started shooting.
06:18To kill or to die.
06:20I mean, can you talk about a minor, a boy who doesn't understand
06:24when they are willing to kill?
06:26And there, reading the part, look.
06:28Sergeant Escolante,
06:30the shot is in the neck
06:35and back.
06:38That is, they shot in the neck and then in the back.
06:42The female police officer shot in the leg
06:48and then a police officer who miraculously
06:51was saved by the bulletproof vest.
06:53They buy the gun.
06:55You have to think.
06:56The criminals...
06:57They plan the crime,
06:59they buy the gun, they load the bullets.
07:02The criminals, 14 years old,
07:07the other 17,
07:09and the other 15.
07:11Two identified fugitives, minors,
07:14they kidnap them with the gun they take to Escolante,
07:18a 9mm Bersa gun.
07:20Oh, well.
07:23And one of the criminals had another magazine in his pocket,
07:26just in case.
07:27I'm trying to think, right?
07:29Because one thinks of criminals...
07:31You don't think of boys, right?
07:33But they are boys.
07:34They are the same age.
07:35My daughter is 12 years old.
07:36She will be 13.
07:38She doesn't cross the street alone.
07:41She doesn't.
07:42She lives in a bubble.
07:44I have her in a gold cage.
07:48I don't know.
07:49She doesn't cross the street alone.
07:50If she does, I have to look at her.
07:52Now, she is a year and a half younger
07:56than one of these murderers,
07:59or almost murderers, right?
08:01No, they are murderers.
08:03They are murderers.
08:05You shot in the neck and two in the back.
08:07Someone, you are a murderer.
08:08Right.
08:09Because you are even afraid of getting shot in the back.
08:13Of course.
08:14Because if you hold on to it,
08:15we will go hand in hand and that's it.
08:16The idea was to kill.
08:17The idea was to kill.
08:18Well, my daughter doesn't cross the street alone,
08:20and this boy, who is a year and a half older,
08:24kills.
08:25He has to go back home,
08:26a revolving door,
08:28goes to the reformatory,
08:29well, to the detention facility,
08:32whatever you want to call it,
08:34to do a doctorate in crime.
08:37No, because besides...
08:38Now let's give the floor to Zachary.
08:40No, besides, it's worse.
08:41Because these 17-year-old boys who are detained,
08:45are going to fall at the institute
08:48with the badge of...
08:50I threw the cap at him.
08:51Ah, I carried one.
08:53I hope not,
08:55and that you can move forward, Escalante.
08:58It's very complicated.
08:59It's very complicated.
09:01Yes, now, this consultation, right, Hugo?
09:03Omar, now, when we talk,
09:04aren't they younger boys who are used a lot,
09:06or the older ones too,
09:07to go out to delinquir?
09:09No, I say that
09:11they are boys who do not have
09:13the education or the containment
09:15by the tutors,
09:17and that if so,
09:19the tutors should be responsible.
09:22They are, they are.
09:23No, no.
09:24Penally responsible
09:26for what their children do.
09:28We have to get Zachary in,
09:30because you opened a lot of windows.
09:32Omar, dear, how are you?
09:34Diego Nahuel, Lucía Carlos.
09:36How are you, guys?
09:37What's up?
09:38I've been listening to you,
09:39and first of all,
09:40it seems to me that we have to clarify,
09:41we have to clarify to the people
09:43that they are boys.
09:44No, no.
09:45We are after you catalog them
09:47as murderers, as delinquents,
09:49but in principle they are children.
09:52Children who commit an illicit act,
09:55but do not lose the condition
09:57of being children.
09:59They are boys who deserve,
10:01in principle, to be treated
10:03as they are, boys.
10:05Then to ask or wait
10:07for the same sentence
10:08or the same treatment
10:10in a detention center
10:12for adults seems to be
10:14practically the search
10:15for social hypocrisy.
10:17If you ask me, Omar,
10:19if you ask me,
10:22I can assure you
10:23that these filth
10:24I send to Olmos,
10:25to the worst of the pavilions.
10:27But I don't doubt it.
10:28I don't doubt it.
10:29No, Saker, do you know why?
10:31Because you are fighting...
10:32We are violating the child rights treaty, Nahuel.
10:35What do I care about the treaty?
10:36And the rights of the police?
10:38And the rights of the police's children?
10:40Don't you have them?
10:41They are contemplating too.
10:42They are contemplating too.
10:43No, they are not contemplating, Omar.
10:44They are not contemplating.
10:45Yes, they are contemplating.
10:46Because if you, this 14-year-old boy
10:48who put it on the line
10:50and who is fighting for his life,
10:52the police,
10:53you tell me that he did not understand
10:55and that he has to go back
10:56and that he has to go back
10:57with the daddy and the mommy
10:58because he did not know
10:59that he had a 9 in his hand
11:00and shoot him in the neck
11:01and the back of a policeman.
11:02No, no, the most probable thing
11:03is that he does not have
11:04neither daddy nor mommy.
11:05That is the problem.
11:06And you know that many do.
11:07No, no, no.
11:08And daddy and mommy are
11:09faloperos, fissuras.
11:10Well, that's why
11:11I'm telling you.
11:12Well, is it okay then?
11:13No, no, that he does not have
11:14daddy and mommy.
11:15No, not at all.
11:16On the contrary.
11:17No, no, no.
11:18You are not going to get
11:19the condition of a child
11:20for everything you do.
11:21He took it off himself.
11:22I didn't take it off.
11:24No, no, Zucker.
11:25No, no, really, I'm telling you.
11:26No.
11:27Let's see.
11:28Let's see.
11:29The condition of a child
11:30he took it off himself.
11:31He took it off.
11:32The law did not take it off.
11:33You are taking it off
11:34the moment you are
11:35presenting a news
11:36without taking into account
11:37the Convention of the Rights
11:38of the Child.
11:39Ah, no.
11:40They deserve a special treatment.
11:41It is not the same treatment
11:42for a person to die.
11:43Yes, of course.
11:44I send it with a bouquet
11:45to Salvador,
11:46the special treatment
11:47that I give him.
11:48No, well, you see
11:49that what you are saying
11:50is serious.
11:52Let's see.
11:53I'm interested in the one
11:54who does things right,
11:55not the one who does it wrong.
11:56The one who does it wrong
11:57are the consequences
11:58of what happens to him.
11:59The policeman was not
12:00doing anything wrong.
12:01I'm interested in the boy
12:02who does things wrong
12:03because the one who does
12:04things right is contained.
12:05The one who does them wrong
12:06is the one who needs
12:07psychological,
12:08social,
12:09and love
12:10to be able to change
12:11what he does wrong.
12:12No, Zucker.
12:13No, no.
12:14Wait.
12:15Can we ask for information?
12:16Yes.
12:17Can we?
12:18I want to know,
12:19I want to have the information
12:20so that people
12:21in your house
12:22can take a stand
12:23because you know
12:24about the law,
12:25about crime,
12:26about the minority
12:27but people don't know.
12:28Omar,
12:29can you explain
12:30leaving aside your opinion
12:31which I think
12:32is very clear.
12:33Yes.
12:34What happens
12:35with a 14-year-old
12:36who kills?
12:37No, nothing.
12:38Because it's delayed.
12:39Where does this boy
12:40have to be now?
12:41In his house.
12:42In his house.
12:43No, but...
12:44According to the law
12:45it says it clearly
12:46that in principle
12:47he is going to try
12:48to give him
12:49a place of detention
12:50in his own home
12:51and if not,
12:52he is going to a home
12:53which is precisely
12:54a place of detention
12:55not a place of detention
12:56so that the psychologists
12:57try to act
12:58in that illicit behavior
12:59that the minor had.
13:00But they don't impute him.
13:01He is 14 years old.
13:02They go to a place
13:03where he will receive
13:04psychological assistance,
13:05they will give him resources.
13:06In the worst of cases.
13:07But there is no...
13:08They can't give it to him
13:09in his home.
13:10There is no imputation
13:11of anything.
13:12No, none.
13:13Until the age of 18.
13:14Nothing.
13:15Nothing at all?
13:16No.
13:17Until the age of 16
13:18he doesn't have
13:19any kind of criminal reproach.
13:20Ok, but...
13:21He killed at 14.
13:22He killed at 14.
13:23He killed now.
13:24Yes.
13:25Because the truth is
13:26that he made an attempt
13:27of homicide.
13:28There is no criminal reproach.
13:29There is no reproach now.
13:30He goes to a reformatory.
13:31When he turns 16
13:32he starts to pay
13:33in another way
13:34this crime.
13:35No, no.
13:36That's it.
13:37No.
13:38There is nothing.
13:39There is no record.
13:40There is absolutely nothing.
13:41It is different
13:42from the minor
13:43who is between
13:4416 and 18
13:45that when he turns 18
13:47he enters into a
13:48juvenile responsibility
13:49regime until 18
13:50and at 18
13:51he is going to be judged.
13:52There is one
13:53who is 17.
13:54There is one
13:55who is 17.
13:56That goes to a
13:57juvenile responsibility
13:58regime
13:59and the judge
14:00will determine
14:01if he remains detained
14:02if he is returned
14:03to his property
14:04to the family
14:05detention center
14:06and at 18
14:07he is going to be judged.
14:08He is going to face
14:09criminal responsibility
14:10with a maximum penalty
14:11that will not exceed
14:1212 years in prison.
14:13Ok.
14:14Ok.
14:15So he will be punished
14:16within 12 years
14:17in prison
14:18because they have
14:19another quantification
14:20of the sentence
14:21for age
14:22between 16 and 18.
14:23Perfect.
14:24We have to change this,
14:25obviously.
14:26We have to change it.
14:27We have to change everything.
14:28We have to change everything
14:29guys.
14:30There is a project
14:31for the prison sentence
14:32You have to say it.
14:33There are countries
14:34in the First World
14:35that have
14:36a sentence
14:37of up to 13 years.
14:38Omar, there are countries
14:39that do,
14:40but the penalties
14:41are different.
14:42Yes.
14:43But do you think
14:44the way Nahuel Suárez wants to implement it,
14:47which has to be said very clearly,
14:48Nahuel Suárez wants to implement
14:50the way of imprisoning him at 14, 15 years old.
14:53Do you think that's the solution?
14:55No way.
14:56Well, what the judge says...
14:58I don't know if it's a solution.
14:59What I do know is that they're not going to be in society.
15:02They're not going to kill anyone else.
15:04Then I don't know if it's okay.
15:06They're going to be isolated from the world.
15:08That's what I want, period.
15:09Be careful with the speech,
15:11Lu, what you were saying before.
15:12Be careful with the speech of
15:14the father is a drug dealer,
15:15the mother is in prison,
15:16and these little ones go out to kill.
15:18There are a lot of kids who have their parents in prison.
15:21Totally.
15:22There are a lot of kids who are...
15:23That's why I always say it.
15:25Be careful with criminalizing poverty.
15:28They go out to kill and rob the criminal.
15:31They don't go out to kill and rob the poor
15:33or the one who doesn't have a mom or dad.
15:34That's true.
15:35No, that of course,
15:36but they are young people who go out to kill
15:37because they come from an environment that is not taken care of.
15:39No, no, no, it's not linear.
15:41It's not linear, Lu.
15:42It's not linear.
15:43Of course it's not normal.
15:44I'm not saying that all...
15:45Linear, linear.
15:45I'm not saying that the one who doesn't have a mom or dad...
15:47It's not linear.
15:48All children who don't have parents,
15:50or who have, rather, parents who are on the run
15:52or in crime, are going to commit a crime.
15:54It's obvious that it doesn't happen that way.
15:55That's fine, Lu.
15:56That's why I say...
15:57Because that happens in all aspects
15:58and in all social classes.
15:59Now, what I'm saying is,
16:01if they don't have containment in their home,
16:03if they don't go to attend a formal education
16:07and their rights are not guaranteed,
16:09what can we expect from those children?
16:11And I know that this statement is very complex.
16:13I know that this statement is very complex
16:15to hear from the relatives
16:18of those who killed someone.
16:19It must be terrible.
16:20And I don't want to put a single moment
16:22in their place.
16:24But what I'm saying is,
16:25what is the objective then?
16:27Do we put them in jail
16:28and pretend that they are reinserted in society?
16:31No.
16:31We put them in jail
16:32to prevent them from killing another person, Lu.
16:35Because the answer is to the urgency,
16:38not the importance.
16:39In Argentina, we always run after the urgency.
16:42That's fine, but after the urgency,
16:43you have to make a structural change.
16:45Whatever you want.
16:45Because if not, it's impossible.
16:47And in addition to the fact that the percentage of young people,
16:49or minors, better said, 16 years old,
16:51who commit crimes, is less than 2%.
16:53Very low.
16:53I mean, let's not use that flag.
16:55And checkable, what you're saying.
16:56Omar, Omar...
16:57No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
16:59I want to support Lu,
17:00I want to support Lu in the statement she's giving
17:03and I want to reject
17:06the statements that Mr. Carlos Estrione is making,
17:10an experienced journalist,
17:11who is asking for the law to prevent something
17:15that it cannot prevent, such as an illegal act.
17:18Because with that thought,
17:20the military junta imprisoned people...
17:23No, you're reasoning out of the box.
17:25No, no.
17:26Because what I'm saying...
17:27No, no, no, that the law prevents.
17:29What I'm saying is...
17:31I'm not saying,
17:32to someone who doesn't have a father or a mother
17:34and who is an orphan and is in prison,
17:36then the child must be put in prison.
17:37What I'm saying is,
17:38to a 14-year-old murderer,
17:40if you leave him at home,
17:43what's going to happen, Omar?
17:45If you don't do anything,
17:47of course he's going to continue committing crimes.
17:49Then he has to go to prison.
17:50But if you do something with the state to work...
17:52Then he has to go to prison.
17:54Because he has already shown that he kills.
17:56He has already shown that with a gun in his hand, he kills.
17:59He kills.
18:00Then the state has to give all the necessary contention...
18:04No, but we're starting to talk in the air, brother.
18:07No, no.
18:08Let's see.
18:09I want to leave my position in the opposite direction.
18:13I don't share Zakir's position under any concept.
18:18Under no concept.
18:20I can understand Luvaldi,
18:22but I don't share what he says either.
18:25And this doesn't take me far from the love I have for you.
18:30Yes, of course.
18:31And how you function as a human being.
18:33What I do say is that we are putting a price on lives.
18:39The police officer's life is cheap.
18:42Yes, completely.
18:44And the life of this child,
18:46you have to give him love and protection.
18:48Yes.
18:49What I say is that the police officer is a police officer
18:52and he knows what he is risking.
18:54I went there and you know that you go out
18:56and you don't come back.
18:57And it's our job.
19:01But the 14-year-old boy who has a gun
19:04and shoots,
19:07I don't want that boy in society.
19:10I don't want him next to...
19:12Okay, I agree with that.
19:14We don't want him in society because it's dangerous.
19:16We put it that way.
19:17Now, what is the punishment we give to that young man?
19:21Do we want him to be re-inserted in society?
19:23Is it a punishment more linked to the educational partners,
19:27like in some Latin American countries?
19:29Are we going to put him in jail like the elderly,
19:32like the 18-year-olds?
19:34If we are going to raise something that is not black or white,
19:38the low imputability has to do with that.
19:40It's okay, they are delinquenting,
19:42let them go to jail.
19:43It has to be debated urgently.
19:44There is a range of possibilities in the media.
19:46Later, yes.
19:47First, get him out of society.
19:49Because you said a word that is punishment.
19:52The Argentine law,
19:53Dr. Zucker is here, he won't let me lie,
19:55the Argentine law is not
19:57a punishment like the American one.
19:59In the United States, that's why they can give you
20:01650 years in jail.
20:03Because it's a punishment.
20:04The precept in Argentina is to re-insert...
20:07Yes, that it doesn't happen.
20:08That it doesn't happen.
20:09We'll discuss it later, Lu.
20:10We'll discuss it later.
20:11Because if there is a 14-year-old boy
20:13who gets three shots in the back,
20:15three shots in the back to a policeman...
20:17I'm not justifying it.
20:19No, I know.
20:20It has to be discussed in Congress.
20:23Not as specialists.
20:24It has to go from a lawyer like Zucker
20:26to a psychologist like Claudio Greco,
20:29all the specialists, to discuss this.
20:31Because this threshold they set from 14
20:34to 14 is one thing, unimpeachable,
20:37to 16 is another.
20:39It has a lot of years.
20:41It has a lot of years.
20:42If today's 14 are not the 14 of 20 years ago.
20:46Let's see, our law,
20:48and since Zucker is here, Omar,
20:50what date are we talking about
20:52in the Penal and Procedural Code?
20:55The Penal has its reforms,
20:58but the Procedural Code has almost 100 years.
21:01And the Procedural Code had five reforms
21:04in the course of 80 years.
21:06Do you think that a 14-year-old boy
21:09is the same as he was 100 years ago?
21:12No, not at all.
21:13No violence, no crime.
21:15Because it's not the same society.
21:17Totally.
21:18So you can't regulate yourself
21:19with a manual from 100 years ago.
21:21But you think there are no more weapons,
21:23no more medical weapons,
21:25to treat a minor's condition?
21:27There are many more medical weapons.
21:29We can enter the minors' minds,
21:31the minor's family formation,
21:33and see if he really had an education
21:35and receives the necessary love.
21:37You have to analyze it.
21:39Not when you live in a corrupt country,
21:42in a country where prisons, institutions,
21:45and regimes, in order to reinstate society,
21:49the person deprived of their freedom,
21:52is the same as they are now.
21:54So far, nothing has worked.
21:56So what do we do?
21:58Break the board.
22:00Look, we...
22:02Omar, what we are going to do
22:04is unfortunately continue to tell episodes
22:07like the one you just showed,
22:09of San Martín, where, well,
22:11the minors are killed.
22:13They know that the door is rotating,
22:15that they come in and out,
22:17that nothing will happen to them.
22:19So we will discuss it
22:21tomorrow, on Monday,
22:23another new episode.