Most Powerful Women Summit 2024: Hollywood Power Panel
Pearlena Igbokwe, Chairman, Universal Studio Group, Debra Martin Chase, Chief Executive Officer, Martin Chase Productions, Nina Shaw, Founding Partner, Del Shaw Moonves Tanaka Finkelstein Lezcano Bobb & Dang, Sharon Waxman, Founder, Editor-in-Chief, CEO, TheWrap
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00:00All right.
00:00Hello, hello, everyone.
00:02Welcome to this amazing assortment
00:07of powerhouse women who run the entertainment industry.
00:13Pretty much.
00:14Pretty much.
00:14OK.
00:15So we're going to get right down to it.
00:18It's a tough time in the entertainment industry.
00:21People are being laid off.
00:23Companies are going away.
00:25Companies are consolidating.
00:29You guys are in the trenches of it every day.
00:31So let's just talk, take it, let's get real.
00:34Your view, how bad is it right now in the entertainment
00:37industry?
00:38You have many decades of experience between you.
00:42Perlina, we'll start with you.
00:45How bad is it?
00:46Yeah.
00:49Look, I tend not to be an alarmist.
00:52I think that there's probably lots of different times
00:55in our business when people thought it was the worst it's
00:57ever been.
00:58It's definitely challenging right now,
01:00because I think there's been a lot of disruption
01:03in our business, and people are being
01:05forced to rethink the business wholesale, which I think
01:09is really troubling for a lot of people.
01:12But I think in the midst of challenges,
01:14there's also opportunities to rethink the business.
01:17And perhaps it's an opportunity for us
01:20to think about how do we do it differently
01:23and who we do it with differently.
01:25So yeah, it's challenging, but I don't think
01:30it's necessarily horrible.
01:34Here's two things.
01:35One, I have learned over the course of whatever,
01:3930 plus years, you have to stay open and stay nimble.
01:43Because this business is influenced
01:47by technology, culture, politics, global economy.
01:53So you have to try and live in the present,
01:56but also always look forward.
01:58But what I will say from the 30 years
02:01that I've been in the business, diversity
02:03is now a part of the business in a way
02:06that it has not been in the past.
02:09And part of that is a real recognition
02:11that there's money to be made.
02:13I mean, I was making this argument for years
02:15that diversity was good business.
02:17And people were like, oh, I don't know.
02:20We haven't tried it out.
02:21We're scared to try it out.
02:22But now they know.
02:23And so there are more opportunities in many ways
02:26now than there were even a decade ago.
02:29Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about that in a minute.
02:31Nina, what's your thought?
02:33Yeah, I tend to agree with my colleagues.
02:37Because this is something that we see in the business
02:41and we've seen all along.
02:42I can remember when cable TV, when the DVD world,
02:47all these different things happened.
02:50And it always felt like we weren't going to move along.
02:54The truth of it is that people have
02:56become much more adept at doing things in different ways.
03:00For example, you see a number of people in the business
03:03who really are small business owners.
03:06And they're doing them in their homes at their computers.
03:10So we see the advent of influencers and the way
03:13that they have impacted the business.
03:15Now, that's a group in the business that didn't exist 10,
03:1815 years ago.
03:20And they have changed, in many ways, the product.
03:22We're seeing children's programming
03:25moving away from networks and broadcasting and into YouTube.
03:30So every change is an opportunity.
03:32But it is a difficult time.
03:34And I certainly don't want to make,
03:36I don't want to not talk about the people in the business,
03:40many of the below the line people who are finding it
03:43very difficult to adjust.
03:45And we're seeing, I think, for them a very, very tough time.
03:49But I have hope that we will come through it.
03:52And yet, for each of you, I think
03:57it's worth acknowledging each of you in your own careers,
04:02whether it's in the studio system,
04:04or whether it's in independent producing,
04:06or whether it's as a legal representation for so
04:11many people, Ava DuVernay and John Legend and so many people.
04:14I can go on and on about all their credits.
04:16It's absolutely remarkable.
04:18We only have 20 minutes.
04:20So what allowed you to think that there was a place for you?
04:29Because there were no models for the people
04:33you were at a young age.
04:36And I want to talk about each of your paths
04:38because they're so remarkable, whether you're
04:42from New York or Illinois or Nigeria.
04:47It's an act of faith to create that path.
04:53And here you are now still going strong,
04:56having incredible careers at a time
04:58where a lot of people are having to abandon the business,
05:01frankly, because it is so difficult.
05:03Nina, how did you project yourself
05:07into this sort of key role you have now?
05:10In some ways, in a very odd way, it
05:13was a lack of opportunities that really
05:16made this so clear for me.
05:17I really didn't have.
05:19I remember when I had gone a very traditional path
05:22after Columbia Law School, gone to big law,
05:24and then from there was trying to get into the entertainment
05:27industry in the boutique law firms.
05:31And no one would hire me.
05:34It was just an amazing experience
05:36to be as experienced a lawyer I was
05:40with the kind of credentials I had
05:41and be unable to find a job.
05:43So I answered an ad in the newspaper
05:46and ended up in a small law firm with great lawyers who
05:49ultimately trained me to be an even better entertainment
05:53lawyer.
05:54And then when it was time for me,
05:55I felt it was time to strike out on my own,
05:58there wasn't really a lot of other options.
06:01It was so funny how a lack of options
06:03can make your path very, very clear.
06:06And I ended up beginning my law firm.
06:08We just had our 35th anniversary.
06:10Wow.
06:14And I think without being immodest,
06:18we are absolutely considered one of the top law firms.
06:22We're both with her.
06:23We're quite.
06:24Yeah.
06:24Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
06:28It would have been kind of awkward otherwise.
06:30But OK.
06:31Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
06:33So sometimes when the doors all seem to be closed,
06:37your way forward actually is a bit clearer
06:39because it's going to be what you make it.
06:42And that was really the lesson that I took from this.
06:45And I have such a great family and so many strong women
06:48in my family that they could do it.
06:51I had to do it.
06:54Deborah, how about you?
06:55So I'd always loved film and television.
06:59My dad was a huge film and television buff.
07:01I was a lawyer.
07:03I practiced Harvard Law School, big law firm, whatever.
07:06And I decided that what I really wanted to do in life
07:10was make movies.
07:11I didn't know that nobody who looked like us
07:13was making movies.
07:14So it was actually when I got to Hollywood
07:20and I looked around, and I'm like, really?
07:24But I was determined to do it.
07:27I wanted to do it.
07:29And I figured other people are doing it
07:31so I can do it, which has been my philosophy my whole life.
07:34So in some ways, it was like the ignorance of the situation,
07:38but also a belief in myself by that time
07:41because I'd been successful at everything that I tried to do.
07:45And this is the thing I really wanted to do.
07:48And I really wanted to have an impact on culture.
07:51I grew up not seeing people who looked like us or felt like us
07:55on the screen, and I wanted to change that.
07:58And let's talk about some of the shows
08:00that you've made over the course of your career
08:02that have changed the way popular culture appears
08:08on our screens.
08:10I mean, I know you, I can mention them.
08:14I mean, you did the Pelican Brief.
08:16I actually didn't do Pelican Brief.
08:18You ran Denzel Washington's company.
08:20I ran Denzel Washington's company.
08:21We did Devil in a Blue Dress, and Courage in the Fire,
08:24and The Preacher's Wife.
08:26I picked the one that you didn't produce.
08:28OK.
08:29I know.
08:30Sorry, OK, Princess Diaries.
08:33Princess Diaries.
08:34Cinderella.
08:36Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.
08:38One of my favorites.
08:39OK, so stuff that is equalizer.
08:42Equalizer.
08:43OK, together.
08:45So these are things that have really
08:47had a big impact on shaping what the conversation is,
08:51what's conventional wisdom, what's normal,
08:53what's interesting, what's cool.
08:55And I'm really proud of it.
08:56All right, and thank you for that.
08:58And should be, yeah.
09:00Perlina.
09:02I was born in Nigeria, came to this country
09:04when I was very young.
09:05So I was obsessed with television
09:07because that's how I got acclimated to this country.
09:09And I think that's a similar story for a lot of immigrants.
09:13And TV teaches you, in some ways, values.
09:18What are you supposed to aspire to?
09:20What are you supposed to believe in?
09:23And so I had this deep-seated desire one day
09:28to work in television.
09:29But it's deep-seated because I never
09:30thought it would happen because I didn't
09:32know anyone who worked in TV.
09:33And it wasn't until I got to college
09:35and I was looking for a summer job one day,
09:36I saw on the board it said NBC was
09:38looking for summer associates.
09:39OK, college is Yale, by the way, so you know.
09:43So it was like my mind exploded because I
09:46didn't know that people worked in television
09:49and they could pay you to make TV shows.
09:53So I applied, I got the job, and I
09:54spent two summers in New York.
09:56And it was life-changing for me.
09:59I was in the business, you know.
10:02And then I had to figure out how to get
10:05a permanent job in the business.
10:07It was not as easy as I thought.
10:08I applied everywhere and no one wanted me.
10:11So I went to do something else and worked in financial services
10:14for a while.
10:16And then I decided when I want to go back into entertainment
10:18and figure it out, I went to business school
10:20and then eventually made my way into Showtime Networks
10:25on the marketing side, hoping one day I'd
10:27get to the entertainment side.
10:29And I did after a few years.
10:33And I came out to LA.
10:35And I was just determined to go forge my path.
10:39Now it's interesting because already where I was,
10:44I felt so improbable that, oh my gosh,
10:47I'm this immigrant kid who's now in entertainment.
10:50I kind of felt like there's nothing I can't do
10:52because I've already done this.
10:55And what made me feel like there was a path for me?
10:59I went to an event and I saw this woman who was a producer.
11:02She had produced Courage Under Fire and all those other things
11:05that she produced.
11:06And I saw her and I said, oh my god,
11:08there's this black woman who's a producer out there producing
11:12these amazing shows.
11:14And by the way, always looking amazing.
11:16And so I thought, wouldn't it be great to try to, you know,
11:22that maybe I could find a path in there as well.
11:26So that's, you know, it is a little bit
11:30of not knowing any better.
11:33And sometimes not having another option
11:37that sort of gets you there.
11:39And just, you know, it's a slow and steady path.
11:43It wasn't like I had a friend or an uncle who called someone
11:46and got me into the job.
11:48Mine was, I say to people, I was a 30-year-old.
11:50You guys are the anti-Nepo ladies.
11:53I mean, I say to people, I was a 30-year-overnight sensation.
11:56You know?
11:58Like when I got this job, when I got this job, you know,
12:03as chairman, I mean, it was kind of like,
12:06she came out of nowhere, you know, and got this job.
12:10And you know, and that's, for some people,
12:11that was the perception.
12:13And for me, it was, you know, steadily working
12:15in the business and hopefully performing well,
12:18you know, to get this job.
12:20I just want to mention a few of the shows
12:23that Perlina's been involved.
12:24I only have a couple cards here.
12:26But at Showtime, Dexter, Nurse Jackie.
12:31Is there anything else you want to mention
12:32from your Showtime moments?
12:34Masters of Sex.
12:35Masters of Sex.
12:36I love that series.
12:37At NBC, she was responsible for shows
12:39like This Is Us, The Blacklist.
12:42You've heard of any of the shows?
12:45She was all, she's, right now, she's
12:48in charge of NBC, like a lot of production that includes
12:52things you're not seeing.
12:53You've ever watched A Law and Order?
12:55Or a difficult show.
12:57But then also, Hacks, Girls 5 Ever, Emmy winning Hacks.
13:06The Gilded Age, Bel Air, Umbrella Academy.
13:08So really, yeah, am I, yeah.
13:10OK, stop there, Sharon.
13:12But I want to just also point out
13:15that it looks like you're here, and you've been here,
13:20and it's always been like this.
13:22You talk about the beginning of your career,
13:24and nobody would give you a job.
13:26But even when you're on the path of a career,
13:29there are moments that are really challenging.
13:32And when you ask yourself, can I continue to do this?
13:37I just want to ask you, Debra, because you and I spoke.
13:40She was in Prague the other night at 11 PM,
13:43talking to me, awfully nice.
13:44She was location scouting.
13:46So the job's fun, for sure.
13:49But I mean, it's high risk.
13:51And you mentioned that, that's something, if I have it right,
13:54that 10 years ago or so.
13:55Yeah, I was going to quit.
13:57Yeah.
13:57I was out.
13:58So talk about that a minute.
13:59I just, you know, it was a time in the business,
14:01Nina knows for sure, because I was sitting
14:02over your house in tears.
14:04But it was just a time in the business
14:08where nobody was interested in making TV or movies
14:11about women, about women of color, about people of color.
14:16It just was not happening.
14:18I would go in the pitch stuff, people's eyes would glaze over.
14:21And honestly, I do believe part of my success
14:25is that I have been on a mission.
14:27You know, like I said, I wanted to have an impact
14:30on culture and imagery.
14:32And so then, all of a sudden, I found myself just throwing
14:34stuff up against the wall.
14:36Like, oh, this is a story about a dude.
14:39It just didn't hit.
14:41You know, it didn't have meaning for me.
14:43And if it doesn't have meaning for me, I can't sell it.
14:46I can't shape it.
14:47And so I said, finally, I'm like, well,
14:52maybe this is the universe's way of saying it's been a good run.
14:56You need to think about doing something else.
14:58And so I literally spent, I'd been at Disney for 20 years,
15:01grateful for that, but also, you know,
15:05had become kind of legacy wallpaper,
15:07because everybody who was invested in me personally
15:09was long gone.
15:11And so I took a year, you know, I'm still working,
15:13but to explore other options.
15:16Should I practice law, film finance, you know,
15:19blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
15:20And when I finally decided that, no, this is, well,
15:24actually, Vernon Jordan was the one who was a longtime friend.
15:30And I was 18, I'd known him since I was 18 years old.
15:33And I went in, and I told him this whole story.
15:35Who was a known expert in the entertainment industry.
15:38But a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,
15:39Expert in life.
15:40In life, in life.
15:41In life, OK.
15:42And knew me well.
15:44And he sat there, and he listened to me,
15:46and he poured my heart out, and he looked at me, and he said,
15:48you are too old to do anything else.
15:50He said, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have.
15:55What a warm hug.
15:56Right.
15:57He said, you, you have a great reputation,
16:00you have great relationships, you have great experience.
16:02You need to figure out how to make it work.
16:05And it was that kind of boom, boom, you know.
16:08That I was like, yes, you're right.
16:11And, and I also, I want to say one thing.
16:15Literally, these women have held me up,
16:20and I know we've helped each other.
16:22And so that, and for this audience,
16:25you know, it's really important to know for a long time.
16:28And, and that's important.
16:30No, it is.
16:31Debra and I actually met.
16:32I was a summer clerk.
16:34Debra was a paralegal at this law firm,
16:37and it was me, and her, and Anita Hill.
16:40And we were like the, we were the three,
16:42we were the three black women.
16:43Right, yes.
16:45Anita was a summer clerk also.
16:48Right, and I've known Pralina since the very early days.
16:50Since I ran into you, and I was, you know.
16:53And now we work together, and now when I took over a studio,
16:56I said, what producers do I want to be in business with?
16:58She called me, you know, out of the blue, and said,
17:02you know, are you interested?
17:03And I'm like, yes, yes.
17:05So it's, the sisterhood is really important.
17:09That is, so A, let's talk, there's
17:11representation that you guys are,
17:13have carved pathways for representation.
17:17You have created a sisterhood, and it's really
17:20visible throughout the industry.
17:23The number of women of color who are
17:27dominating in the industry, it is astonishing.
17:30It's Shonda Rhimes, who said that it was your internship?
17:32Your intern, or something like that.
17:34Yeah, when she was at USC.
17:35We talk about mentorship, right?
17:38These things really do matter, and your careers
17:40are long enough that you're not, you're still working,
17:43and people who were your interns are now running the industry.
17:46Like, you know, didn't know at the time,
17:48but like, are in their prime.
17:50You know, from Shonda, who wrote Princess Diaries 2 for me,
17:53Anne Hathaway, I discovered, and Blake Lively, and Jesse
17:57Williams, I mean, so now, all of a sudden,
17:59I like, got the in with, you know.
18:00It's such an important point, because I
18:02think these relationships are the things that
18:04hold you up in the world, and you have to stay close to them.
18:08I mean, I have this great relationship
18:10with John Legend, which is because of you,
18:12because remember that night?
18:13Yeah, Sonny, I called Nina, I said, they called me.
18:17His producing partner called, they need a lawyer.
18:20Nina was in the car that night, met me at John's house,
18:26met me at John's house, signed John,
18:30and got the bonus of Chrissy.
18:32Yeah, and got the bonus of Chrissy.
18:33She was with the whole family.
18:35And then John called me and said, well,
18:37there's this young woman, she's from Philly, blah, blah, blah,
18:40on and on, and it turned out to be Quinta Brunson, who
18:42created this great show, Abbott Elementary,
18:45and all of these are, this all started
18:48with me going to John's house that night with you.
18:50OK, so those are all words of wisdom.
18:53They're going to make me rap, and I'm not going before I hear
18:56from each of you, 30 days to the election, Kamala or Trump?
19:00What's your guess?
19:01Oh, please.
19:04Oh, come on, we know it matters to everybody on this stage.
19:09Not who you're voting for, who do you think?
19:11Oh, Kamala.
19:14Kamala.
19:15Karlina?
19:16Is this a question?
19:17It's a guess.
19:20It's a three word question.
19:23Kamala.
19:23All right.
19:24OK, you heard it here.
19:25Thank you, guys.
19:26Thank you so much.