Sue Bird, Basketball Legend, Co-founder, A Touch More, Co-owner, Seattle Storm, Michele Kang, Founder, Kynisca; Owner, Washington Spirit, Olympique Lyonnais Féminin, London City Lionesses, Clara Wu Tsai, Vice Chair, BSE Global; Co-owner, Brooklyn Nets, New York Liberty, San Diego Seals, Barclays Center Moderator: Emma Hinchliffe, Fortune
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00:00Hello everyone. So while we settle in, I want to ask who in the room has been to a WNBA game? Raise your hands.
00:06Let's go. Okay, awesome. And then who has been to an NWSL game?
00:11Okay, we've got to get some more people
00:14to soccer games, but
00:17great, great to know. So Sue, we'd love to start with you.
00:20You've been in women's professional basketball for more than two decades and you have a view into other sports as well.
00:26So when you look at the craziness, the attention of the past year, good and bad,
00:30how different was this year compared to what you've seen earlier in your career and even just a couple years ago?
00:36Incredibly different, entirely different.
00:38When I think back on probably the last
00:41five years or so, we've really seen a shift.
00:44I think it does start with women's soccer and their fight for equal pay.
00:47That really put a lot of these conversations on the map. That's why you should be going to NWSL games.
00:52And then we look at the WNBA's bubble season 2020. I think that started putting us in different conversations.
00:59You fast-forward now, the platform was built and then we had this rookie class, especially in the WNBA, come in.
01:05But younger players in soccer as well come in and they've got flair, they've got personality, they've got followings because of NIL.
01:12Boom.
01:13Yeah, amazing. And NIL, for anyone who doesn't know, is the reform in college sports allowing college athletes to earn money.
01:18Yes, so Clara, thank you so much for being here because your team is in the finals right now between game two and three.
01:25So, I don't know, we have a lot of New Yorkers in the room,
01:27so we might be rooting for the Liberty.
01:29But I would love to hear a little bit from you about what has been driving this growth.
01:33You know, a lot of people are likely familiar with the rookie class like Sue mentioned and Kaitlyn Clark and her popularity.
01:38But there are a lot of other factors. So could you tell us a little bit about what's behind this growth from a fan and business perspective?
01:43Well, I think what's really driven the growth is a very compelling and exciting product.
01:48Which of course starts with the incredible basketball excellence on the floor. If you've gone, you've seen that it's physical and it's gritty,
01:55it's super competitive.
01:57So it starts with that, but it's also now complemented by a really great
02:02game day experience. And for us, if you've been to a Liberty game,
02:06you've seen the timeless torches and you've seen Ellie. And so all in all,
02:10I think what's driven a lot of fans to us is not just the game, which is really why everyone's there,
02:15but also the wraparound wall-to-wall entertainment that we have around that.
02:19Secondly, I think the star power,
02:22definitely.
02:23The spiciness of Angel and Kaitlyn and that sort of rivalry, you know, has brought a lot of
02:30attention. And then thirdly, I would say the mainstream media coverage. It's mainstream media coverage who followed
02:35these college stars when they were in college and
02:39you know, being able that and the social media and the virality of social media allowed
02:44some of these stars to be household names before they even got to the draft. And for the first time,
02:49we were able to take that fan base from college basketball right into the pros.
02:54And I think that made a big difference for us.
02:57Michelle, so you have a global view into sports,
03:00especially soccer and or football in the US, UK and France. So are we seeing the same women's sports trends globally?
03:07What's the same across markets and what's different? Yeah, I mean, I think this is definitely a global trend.
03:13I think that football or soccer is probably the the biggest sport globally.
03:19Something like six billion out of eight billion either played or watched. So I think that actually the women's
03:26football is growing everywhere. France, England, especially Spain.
03:31Even in Lyon where I have a team. I took it over about a year ago.
03:36It was probably a couple thousand.
03:39But now we actually have 40,000. The Champions League final game in Bilbao last May, we had over
03:4650,000 almost sold out at a stadium. So it is a global trend and it's not it's it's out of the bag.
03:52It's not going to stop. Yeah, and you have talked about how you came to sports.
03:56You know, a lot of people come to sports ownership in a way as some sort of passion project, whether they grew up playing sports
04:01or it's just emotional and meaningful for them. You've basically said this is a business opportunity.
04:05So how did you identify that? What numbers did you see that led you to that conclusion?
04:09Yeah, so I think that initially, I mean, I didn't play soccer. I was not a fan.
04:13I didn't know who Leo Messi was. So I was really totally new to sports.
04:17So, but I think I got involved for the equal pay, the whole cleaning up the scandal and everything else from that perspective.
04:25But in the process, I became very passionate and I was actually very surprised
04:30seeing the potential that there hasn't been the kind of investment that I expected.
04:35So what I saw where it was and where it could be, it could go that that gap was really huge.
04:41But that wasn't going to happen just because we're women's sports come and watch,
04:45but rather it has to be taken seriously as an entertainment product.
04:50We're not just competing against men's sports.
04:53We are competing against other forms of entertainment.
04:56We all have seven evenings a week and it is not just a sports games,
05:01but it is going to a movie, going to Taylor Swift concert or going out to dinner.
05:06So what's our value proposition?
05:08As Clara said, we have to put out really the best product,
05:13compelling reason for our fans to come to 13 weekends or even more.
05:18So I think that the investment was absolutely necessary to put the best product
05:24and be the most compelling entertainment product. And we're getting there.
05:28Yeah. So for a variety of complex reasons,
05:31you know, the surge in viewership and attendance doesn't necessarily translate
05:34to much more money for athletes immediately,
05:37at least from their actual salaries rather than other opportunities.
05:40So, Sue, how does that disparity affect players in the meantime
05:44and what can be done by owners, sponsors, other stakeholders while we wait?
05:49Well, I mean, the good news is, I think for both leagues, we've signed massive media deals.
05:53So the money is around the corner.
05:55So that's that's really exciting.
05:56For a long time, a lot of us had to play overseas.
06:00But really recently, you've been able to make money off the court.
06:02And that's actually what was so from a player standpoint, so confusing.
06:07I was like, wait, I'm only getting paid, you know, in some of my my later years
06:12after the new CBA was signed, I did get to make in the two hundred,
06:17you know, two hundred fifty thousand dollar range, which was wonderful.
06:19But for a large portion of my career, I was stuck at like one hundred one ten
06:25for I pretty much lost money playing in the WNBA, if I'm being honest.
06:28Like if you look at like inflation and stuff.
06:30So it was really confusing because I was getting offered crazy deals
06:34off the court from a marketing standpoint, representing brands,
06:38maybe going to do a speaking engagement.
06:39And that's really for me that disconnect.
06:42I knew we had something.
06:43I knew that the players were in the community.
06:46I knew that the players had value even outside of being basketball players.
06:50But why weren't we were being valued as a player?
06:53So the good news is all of us.
06:56I mean, I'm retired now,
06:57but a lot of the players we learned how to be our own businesses.
07:00We understood what it was to to create our own brands.
07:02And now you're getting a really dynamic athlete that brands get to work with.
07:07And that's really when I talk to different brands, what I push.
07:09And athletes are ready for it.
07:11But yeah, the media deals here now.
07:12So it's all going to change.
07:14Yeah. And we have a lot of those big business decision makers in the room.
07:17And, you know, a recent report found that six percent of the Fortune
07:21500 sponsors women's sports compared to 20 percent for comparable men's sports.
07:24So that does not even include the NFL.
07:26So what opportunities are businesses still missing?
07:29And when they do engage in women's sports, what do they get out of it?
07:32And who can they reach?
07:33Right. Clara, maybe. Yeah. Well.
07:36I think that there's well, first of all,
07:39you know, I think there's a lot of room for I mean,
07:42if I could say what I think industry leaders can do to help us is I think that,
07:47you know, be seasoned ticket holders, you know, be by suites,
07:52entertain at women's sports events the same way you entertain at men's sports
07:56events and talk about it, be vocal about it, because actually,
07:59I think your employees will take a lot of pride in that.
08:02And I think that, you know, we've come a long way,
08:04but we can definitely still do better because advertisers
08:07still don't think about women's sports the same way that they think about men's
08:11sports. But I do want to talk about two partnerships that we recently did
08:14that were first of its kind and maybe indicative of what's coming.
08:18One is the Off-White Partnership.
08:20It's a luxury lifestyle brand which has never really ever invested in a U.S.
08:26sports brand, and they chose to come into the U.S.
08:28market through a women's team.
08:30And I think we just had great brand alignment and they wanted to be disruptive
08:34and that they wanted to come in through women's sports and work through sports
08:37and culture. So that is a cash investment.
08:40And then the second investment we've done was with a company called,
08:45well, Xbox, right,
08:46who wanted to use a Liberty brand to help promote their video collaborations,
08:50first with Roblox and then with Sea of Thieves.
08:53And we did three different custom courts for them.
08:57And again, a very unusual way to work together, but it involved cash and it was
09:02brand alignment and just, you know, first of its kind again for any sports league.
09:07Yeah, really innovative.
09:08And I'll come to everyone for questions in a moment.
09:10So start thinking if you have any.
09:12But we've been talking about basketball and soccer.
09:14But Michelle, you've also announced a, I believe, four million dollar donation
09:17into women's rugby.
09:18What potential do you see there?
09:21That was the most expensive game I've ever.
09:27So I was at the Olympic, of course, for the women's soccer team and so forth,
09:32and I was invited to the rugby game.
09:33I've seen rugby games, but not women's, especially not the rugby sevens.
09:38And when I walked into the stadium, I was just really, really shocked that it
09:42was sold out. And actually, quite frankly, women's football was not sold.
09:47It was near sold out, but it wasn't sold out.
09:49The rugby was sold out.
09:51It was something like 70,000.
09:53And I sat next to the U.S.
09:55rugby chairman and so forth.
09:57I started chatting.
09:58And actually, what I found out was that rugby right now, women's rugby in the U.S.
10:04is about the same place where women's soccer was about, I would say, four or five
10:08years ago. And by looking at just the stadium, the fans and the excitement,
10:15just very, very similar.
10:17They're just three, four years behind us.
10:20And I think there is an incredible potential.
10:22So I just wanted to do just little to nudge, to move to that direction.
10:26So I did say it was the conditional that they have to win the gold medal in L.A.
10:32and when they do, I want one, too.
10:34Fascinating.
10:38Do we have any questions for your panelists?
10:40Oh, one over there. A microphone is coming your way.
10:44Hi, ladies. Thank you.
10:45I'm Natasha Gallavody, president of Bimbo Bread Company and also a Division One
10:50athlete. There's quite a bit of activity right now with name, image and likeness for
10:54college athletes and pro sports are because of the amateur pipeline that college
10:58athletes have been able to have an experience.
11:00Any perspective on the potential of non-revenue sports, which are not women's
11:05basketball, but could be rugby, lacrosse, other sports and making sure that while
11:09the power and funding goes to athletes, there's still the ability to get that
11:14talent at the collegiate level so that we can continue to have as many sports and
11:18women participating in the Olympics.
11:21I don't know who wants to take that one.
11:23I mean, I'm a bit I love NIL because NIL, name, image and likeness for college
11:29athletes. This impacts women, I think, more than men.
11:34It gives us the ability to use our college moment and that platform because let's be
11:39honest, NCAA tournaments, no matter what sport you're talking about, are big.
11:43People tune in. They watch.
11:44And so to give the athlete the opportunity to benefit benefit off that and again,
11:49create that brand, I think does help.
11:52You know, I can obviously I can mostly speak to basketball.
11:55The impact of NIL, I really believe in five to 10 years is going to be written about
12:00and how it how it changed things for our league.
12:02So my only hope is that it does maybe for rugby players, for other sports.
12:07And to really actually answer the last question you're asking, I think another
12:11reason why brands do need to get involved, another reason why the investment still
12:15needs to come from corporate partnership is.
12:18It's a known thing.
12:19I mean, you just said you're a D1 athlete, right?
12:21It's a known thing that when you participate in sports, a lot of CEOs are birds from
12:27that for women. There's something there.
12:29And so I think for companies to back women's sports, we always talk about inspiration,
12:33but aspiration plays a role as well.
12:34And when those two combined, I think what you get left with is, yes, some really
12:38incredible athletes that might become pro, but also a lot of the people sitting in this
12:42room right now that become CEOs.
12:44So I think it just all interacts.
12:46And NIL plays a big role in that.
12:48Totally. I think we have another question back here.
12:51Hi, Zoe Weintraub from Guild.
12:54Dovetailing off of your kind of comment, Sue, we supported the Olympics in this last
13:00Games as the official education, skilling and career partner.
13:03So we supported athletes to be able to have the opportunity to think about transition out
13:06of sport so that for the first time, our Team USA athletes can go back to school or
13:12learn a new skill and think about what is that pivotal moment when they transition.
13:15And so my question kind of comes from what you said and what you said in terms of kind
13:20of thinking about athletes in a different way.
13:22We have a room full of executives and leaders that sit and think about large workforce
13:27decisions. Like what are some pieces of feedback or advice you'd think about giving to
13:31this room about considering hiring athletes, women specifically, but just looking for
13:36that? I mean, it's its own skill and we've been talking a lot about skills based
13:39hiring. How can we think differently and really lift up those those individuals?
13:45Yeah, I mean, I the things I learned by playing sports, I'm learning, I'm realizing
13:51now I often joke, you know, I retired when I was 41.
13:55I was really old.
13:57I was my age was talked about all the time.
13:59And yeah, in my field, I was old.
14:01And now all of a sudden I'm in the real world and I'm young again.
14:04But I have the I know it's crazy, but that's really how I feel.
14:10Although I turned 44 soon, so I'm getting up there now.
14:12But I realize like, oh, my God, I have a skill set that I've literally been working on.
14:18I started playing sports when I was in like, oh, God, who even knows, like first, second
14:22grade. So I've literally whether it's teamwork, goal setting, discipline, how to work
14:28with others. Sometimes I joke, I'm like, oh, man, if the country was ran the way sports
14:32teams are ran, like we'd be in a better place because we just have an understanding of
14:36what it is to interact with each other.
14:39And every athlete has this skill set, without a doubt.
14:42Now, are some better at some things than others?
14:44Of course. But every athlete has that in them.
14:47I mean, I could go on and on about the skills that, again, I feel like I woke up when I
14:51retired and I was really, oh, I can walk into these different rooms and I can actually
14:56have a voice because what I'm bringing to the table is a little bit different because of
15:00my sports background.
15:01Yeah, amazing.
15:02I think we have one question back there.
15:05Hi, Daniel Croucher, Elixir, I feel like the US has a once in a generation opportunity
15:12in the next 10 years.
15:14You guys will host the Soccer World Cup, the L.A.
15:1728 Olympics, the Paralympics, the Winter Olympics in Utah, the Cricket World Cup, etc.
15:25So how do you feel like you guys are going to utilize this opportunity?
15:31I feel like sports is one of the only things that brings the world together these days.
15:35It's a huge opportunity.
15:36So curious of your thoughts on that.
15:39Yeah. Clara, Michelle, any plans?
15:41Well, I mean, I think, you know, we're just focused on continuing.
15:49I mean, you know, continuing to promote, you know, U.S.
15:52basketball. Now, we're, of course, we haven't lost in how many years?
15:57Too many to count.
15:58OK, so, yeah, but, you know, I will chime in here and say that I do believe that this is
16:04definitely a way to get more eyeballs onto women's sports.
16:07So I think it is important to, of course, feel the team that can win, but also have people on
16:13the roster that will really bring new fans.
16:16Because I will say in order to sustain the growth that we're seeing, we need to broaden our
16:20reach. We need to attract new fans and fandom, you know, definitely comes from marketing
16:24your stars.
16:26So I think actually in the football, if you look at actually soccer in the U.S., how do you
16:32get attention? Actually, a significant portion of the population, U.S.
16:36population actually identify these sports with the National Olympic or World Cup kind of
16:42events. That's really the fastest way to bring awareness.
16:45A lot of people are aware, but they're not aware that we have a professional league in the
16:50football, soccer world.
16:51So the study after study actually proved that that was the case.
16:56It's actually part of what we're trying to do.
16:58All our players are actually playing in those games.
17:01So in 2019, the World Cup, women won.
17:04And right after that, the U.S.
17:06and WSL had a significant push to increasing the fan base.
17:14Even the Washington Spirit, I think, sold out right after because Rose Lavelle played.
17:20Unfortunately, the COVID happened and now the Olympic, the World Cup, I think that will
17:25continue to bring the awareness.
17:27And then we're going to have to tie our efforts through the players and through the national
17:31games, have to tie to the fact that we have actually very vibrant and incredible national
17:38professional leagues.
17:39And I think it's going to be very helpful.
17:41Can I add to that? Yeah, of course.
17:42Yeah. I just wanted to add that I think the beauty of having all of those main events in the
17:47U.S. and this doesn't just go for U.S.
17:49athletes. It's really all athletes, particularly women.
17:52We have as athletes, we have microphones in front of our faces a lot.
17:55And these big events have mainstream media covering us.
17:59And the storytelling piece that is starting to pick up in women's sports, which is
18:03something I'm super passionate about, that's what drives fandom.
18:06That's what brings people in.
18:07And we talk about things, not just our performance on the field, but we talk about the
18:12ways in which society has impacted us.
18:15We talk about the ways in which maybe we had hurdles and obstacles to overcome.
18:19Not that different from male athletes.
18:21But as we all know, the journey of a woman is different.
18:24And so because we have the lights on, because we have the microphones in our face, this
18:28is going to be the next 10 years.
18:29To your point, it's going to be a really great opportunity for the stories of these
18:32athletes to be told because everyone can learn from them.
18:35Amazing. Well, thank you so much to all of you for making conversation.