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00:00and we go out to the River Islands guest line.
00:03We're joined by Odyssey NFL insider Mark Schlereth,
00:06host of the Stinkin' Truth podcast,
00:08insider calls are brought to you
00:10by Hellman's Real Mayonnaise,
00:12Mayo Game Day be delicious.
00:13Hey Stink, what's going on?
00:16Ah, not a whole lot, how you guys doing?
00:17We're doing good, man.
00:18Hey, Trench Warfare, we think in this one,
00:21Niners and Chiefs this week,
00:23and Chris Jones, obviously, you could argue,
00:25has won not one, but two Super Bowls
00:28that the 49ers think that they could've, should've had.
00:30So, like, what's the plan there?
00:34How do you slow down Chris Jones?
00:38Yeah, you know, that's the $64,000 question, right?
00:41How do you slow that guy down?
00:42He's an absolute beast.
00:45He's a problem, certainly at the end of the game,
00:46you don't forget to block him.
00:48That's certainly, you know,
00:50that's certainly one thing you can't do,
00:51like at the end of the Super Bowl last year,
00:53which is mind-boggling, anytime you see 95,
00:56that's a guy that you've got to,
00:58you know, you've got to take care of,
00:59and you've got to definitely have a plan for him.
01:02But I would tell you that guys like that,
01:06you know, obviously are an issue,
01:09but there are a lot of times where
01:13I like to take away the athleticism of a player like that.
01:18And what I mean by this,
01:20and this is almost counterintuitive,
01:22when you get a guy that is that big, that strong,
01:25but that athletic,
01:27make sure that you attack that player
01:31where he has to keep his feet still,
01:34meaning don't let him use his athleticism.
01:36So one of the big plans,
01:39and this is something goes back to my playing days
01:41when we played against Lawrence Taylor,
01:43when we played against guys like, you know,
01:46like Warren Sapp,
01:47when we played against a guy like Junior Seau,
01:51we ran right at those guys.
01:55Make sure you load those dudes,
01:56make those guys play right there
01:58where they can't beat you to the edge,
02:00and then run down the line of scrimmage
02:02and use that athleticism,
02:04not only the size to beat you at the point,
02:06but take away the athleticism.
02:08And then how many different schemes can you get?
02:11Like, can you invite that dude up field
02:13and have a tight end trap his ass?
02:15Or, you know, one of those types of things
02:17where you get that guy thinking about multiple schemes
02:20that he's got to defend that are coming right at him.
02:22So that's always one of the things
02:24that I want to slow a dude down,
02:26and I want to take away his ability to use athleticism,
02:31take that away from him, make him play right there,
02:33make him defeat double teams,
02:35make him defeat the ball at the point of attack.
02:38Easier said than done,
02:39but I would rather make him defend that way
02:44than let him use his extreme athleticism
02:46to beat you on an edge
02:48and then come screaming down the line of scrimmage
02:49and hit you four yards in the backfield.
02:51How does that jibe with what the Niners try to do
02:54vis-a-vis the outside zone?
02:56Would this be out of character for the Niners
02:58to then suddenly become an off-tackle team
03:01just to try to keep him in his spot?
03:03Well, I mean, you know,
03:05outside zone's an off-tackle play,
03:07but it's an off-tackle play that oftentimes cuts back.
03:11But if you go through Kyle Shanahan's repertoire
03:14of running plays,
03:15I bet you outside zone is no more than 50-50.
03:21Like, what they run as far as gap,
03:24as far as duo,
03:25as far as, you know, duo would be gap, no puller,
03:28gap plays, pin and pull plays,
03:30they are so much more diverse
03:33than we were when Mike Shanahan was coaching me in Denver.
03:37Like, yes, that's their staple play,
03:40but I bet you their zone stuff
03:43only accounts for about 50% of what they do.
03:46So they're a very balanced offensive football team
03:50that they run multiple schemes.
03:52So, you know, it's not,
03:54there's a, I think there's a bit of a misnomer
03:56because we've known them to be this outside zone team
04:00for so long.
04:01They run counter, they run power,
04:02they run, you know, full back counter and tight end counter
04:05and all that kind of stuff.
04:06So they are a more diverse team than that.
04:09And so then it just comes down to, you know,
04:12how do we get great double teams on that guy?
04:14How do we attack him at the point of attack?
04:17Insider calls are brought to you by Hellman's Real Mayonnaise.
04:19You can purchase Hellman's at your local Walmart,
04:21Kroger, or grocery store to add extra deliciousness
04:24and creamy flavor to your game day dishes.
04:26This football season, we're talking with Stink,
04:28Mark Slareth here on Withered & Dibs.
04:30Hey, Stink, can you speak to what we fans look at
04:34as unassumed mental edge?
04:38The Chiefs have had such success
04:40directly against the 49ers.
04:42How does that affect the 49er locker room
04:45in a game like this,
04:46knowing that they just haven't been able to get over the top
04:48against this team?
04:50Yeah, well, I think if you look at it,
04:53the 49ers have really played them well
04:57and in two Super Bowls, you know,
04:59have had the edge in two Super Bowls
05:02until you give, you know, Patrick Mahomes an opportunity
05:06at the end of a game.
05:07And so ultimately, you know, ultimately,
05:11it's continuing to do what you did
05:14throughout the game to be successful
05:16and then don't break down.
05:18I always look at things that happen to you
05:20at the end of the game when you're trying to be like,
05:23when you're trying to force a turnover
05:24or you're trying to force the game
05:27and you try to do too much.
05:29You try to do something that's not in character.
05:31You try to do something, you know,
05:32to be almost a hero ball aspect.
05:35And if you really look at the way they've played
05:39the Kansas City Chiefs, man,
05:40they've been really good
05:42all the way up to the very end of the game,
05:44the last six minutes of the game when they get beat
05:46or in overtime.
05:48And so like out of character,
05:49you talked about the mental aspect of it.
05:51Like I truly did not understand,
05:54and you know, don't let Kyle hear this
05:56because Kyle, I've known Kyle since he was 12,
05:58but I did not understand taking the ball
06:01in overtime in the Super Bowl, right?
06:04And creating a situation where Mahomes
06:07is in four down territory from the second he gets the ball.
06:11Like that didn't make sense to me.
06:12And so just little things, you know,
06:14that you look at that may be out of character
06:18of the way you would normally do it
06:19because the one thing the Chiefs do better
06:22than anybody else, and they're human,
06:23and they have not dominated teams this year
06:26by any stretch of the imagination,
06:28but in critical moments,
06:29both offensively, defensively, and special teams wise,
06:33in critical moments,
06:34those guys just make the big time play in critical moments.
06:39And I think a lot of that is a psychological advantage
06:42that you talk about.
06:43I think there is a pucker, just a pucker up factor
06:46when they get the ball late at the end of a game
06:49where they're the ones going,
06:51oh, you know, like the opponents are going,
06:53oh gosh, here we go.
06:55So, you know, that is just playing your game
06:57and continuing to play your game
06:59throughout the entirety of the game.
07:00And, you know, and the other thing is, you know,
07:03it'd be really nice to have the ball, you know,
07:06late in the game with a lead and where you can sit on it.
07:09You don't give it back to the, you know, 15,
07:11but easier said than done.
07:14And that's, to me, why the Chiefs are really that good.
07:16Yeah, the pucker factor is something
07:18that is talked a lot about here in the Bay Area from fans.
07:22Stink, which would you rather have?
07:24Would you rather have the ball down four
07:26with Brock Purdy needing a touchdown
07:29or Kansas City with the ball down four
07:31needing to stop Patrick Mahomes?
07:35So I would, you know,
07:36I don't want to have to stop Patrick Mahomes.
07:40I just, like, he's a freak show.
07:44So I would, I would trust Brock Purdy in that situation
07:48more than I would trust my defense stopping Mahomes.
07:52So that, you know, that's the direction I would go.
07:54And I think Brock Purdy, you know,
07:57I'm a huge Brock Purdy fan.
07:59I think the dude is a phenomenal player.
08:01And I think he's played exceptionally well
08:03considering, you know, some of the injuries,
08:05some of the inconsistencies, no Krish McCaffrey.
08:08And I know a lot of people will sit there and say,
08:09well, you know, you know,
08:11Jordan Mason's really running the ball well.
08:13And, you know, and they ran the ball exceptionally well
08:15against Seattle.
08:16They ran it really well, blah, blah, blah.
08:18It's just, McCaffrey's just a different dude.
08:20He's a, you know, he's a difference maker
08:22and him, you know, not only running it,
08:24but catching the things he does, you know,
08:26the packages and the time you have to spend
08:29thinking about how you're going to take him away,
08:31especially in the passing game.
08:33It just makes them a more dynamic unit.
08:35It just makes them a different, you know,
08:37it's just a different football team.
08:38Stink, our listeners may not know this,
08:40but the conversations we've had with you earlier
08:44this season, you have expressed
08:46a bit of a head-scratching reaction
08:49with regard to the way the Niners
08:50ended up paying Brandon Aiyuk.
08:52And on a day like this,
08:54where two big name wide receivers are changing teams,
08:57I'd love to know your overall view
09:00of what the league is doing with this position.
09:02And then specifically the 49ers,
09:04like they paid Brandon big dollars,
09:07they restructured Debo,
09:09which makes him harder to cut at the end of the year.
09:12And they've used first-round capital on Ricky Pearsall,
09:15who is now practicing.
09:16And Juwan Jennings has broken out.
09:18Can you make that make sense?
09:22No, you know what?
09:23There's this, we see this happen,
09:26this cyclical nature of different positions.
09:29And we saw it a couple of years ago
09:31with the safety position.
09:32Remember when everybody was wanting to,
09:35we need a middle-of-the-field eraser
09:37at the safety position to,
09:39and we're gonna pay that guy 15, $16 million a year.
09:42And then what happened this year?
09:44Basically all those dudes got cut or released, right?
09:47And they all re-signed for one-year $7 million deals.
09:50There's, I think, one or two safeties
09:52that got paid this off-season.
09:54But there has been a market correction in that.
09:57And I think there's a two or three receivers
09:59that are big-time difference makers.
10:02But for the most part, the rest of them,
10:06you gotta have a number one guy.
10:09You gotta have a true number one receiver.
10:13But I just, I think it's become a,
10:16I think one, it's in a game where it's
10:18everybody's a dependent position.
10:20I think receiver is the most dependent position
10:22of all dependent positions.
10:24Like 10 other guys have to do their job exceptionally well
10:26for that dude to make a play.
10:29And I think there's a few guys that, yes,
10:31are that kind of difference maker,
10:33but there's only a handful of those guys.
10:35And I think there's a lot of guys that play the game
10:39that are really good at it,
10:41that you don't have to pay them
10:43the way these receivers have been getting paid.
10:45I think you'll see a market correction.
10:46It might be not for another year or two or three,
10:49but I think you will see one eventually.
10:51And I think we're seeing some teams already self-correct
10:54and Green Bay let Devontae Adams go.
10:56Now he's onto another team
10:57and they're using a lot of younger talent.
10:59And I look at Kansas City, even if they had Rashi Rice,
11:02their receiving core is very underwhelming.
11:05When you watch Kansas City,
11:06are you seeing a shift in the way
11:08they approach their offensive football
11:10with the personnel they have?
11:12Yeah, I mean, last year, I think they led the league
11:15in two tight end formations, if you can believe that.
11:18So, you know, with Kelsey and with Gray.
11:20And so, you know,
11:22and then the way they ran the ball last year,
11:24like all of a sudden,
11:25Andy Reid, who doesn't want to run the ball,
11:28became a legit weapon with Isaiah Pacheco.
11:31And then the receiving game out of the backfield
11:33with Isaiah Pacheco.
11:35And then, you know, like I said,
11:36the two tight end formations.
11:38And so you've seen, you know, this shift.
11:41And then they had a ton of success with Rashi Rice.
11:43And, you know, and now obviously Rice is hurt,
11:46but, you know, I mean, I think you've seen
11:50some of those shifts, if you will.
11:54Guys are still going to get paid
11:55and they're still, and still, you know,
11:57everybody's important on a football team.
11:59It's important to have dynamic, you know,
12:01big time playmakers.
12:02But again, I think that that's one of those
12:08market corrections that I think
12:09you're going to continue to kind of see.
12:11Stank, Mark Slayer with us here on Withered and Dibs.
12:14Hey, do you buy into ideas like this in the regular season
12:18that a game sort of means more to one team than the other?
12:22It feels like the 49ers need this more
12:26than the Chiefs.
12:27Do you buy that and does it matter?
12:29Oh yeah, there's always a few litmus test games
12:32along the way that, you know, when you're a team
12:35that has either struggled against another team.
12:39You know, I remember early in my career in Washington,
12:42my first, you know, two years in the league,
12:44man, we could not beat the Giants.
12:47Just flat couldn't beat them.
12:49And, you know, changing that tide and beating them in 91,
12:55was like a big time, almost sigh of relief for us.
13:00And, you know, it was one of those things
13:02that you're like, all right, we are good.
13:05We are that good.
13:06And, you know, went on to win a Super Bowl that year.
13:09But same thing goes back in my day
13:12when I played in Denver.
13:13If you went to Kansas City,
13:14even if you didn't win in Kansas City,
13:16because it's so tough to play in Kansas City,
13:18even if you played the Kansas City Chiefs type
13:20under Marty Schottenheimer,
13:22they had a really good team back then.
13:24You know, you always felt coming out of there like,
13:26damn, we're pretty good.
13:27And so there are those litmus test games
13:31for any organization that you look at.
13:33And it means more to me than it does to them probably.
13:36And yeah, I would definitely say,
13:39based on past Super Bowls,
13:40this is one of those games for San Francisco.
13:43Does that also apply to the coach
13:45and the offensive play caller in Kyle Shanahan
13:47going up against a defensive coordinator
13:49who's kind of had his number a little bit?
13:50Does that ratchet up the pressure on Kyle a little bit
13:54to try to figure out how to get by the Spagnolo scheme?
13:57Absolutely.
13:58And Spagnolo, let's face it,
14:00that dude is right now the best coordinator in football.
14:04Like you watch the adjustments he makes
14:07during the course of a game.
14:08You watch the way Kansas City plays,
14:11the plays they make, and they're talented.
14:13They're super talented without question,
14:15but they are super solid, man.
14:17They are like, they are disciplined.
14:19They play hard.
14:20They fly around.
14:21They hit you.
14:23That's a challenge when you face a guy
14:25that's really smart and really good
14:27and really understands your scheme
14:29and kind of how to defend you.
14:31Mark Slares with us here on Willard & Dibbs.
14:34How do you take stock of this thing
14:36after what the Niners did last Thursday night, right?
14:40Like I was thinking about the idea
14:43that compare Dallas and San Francisco, by the way,
14:46who play the week after the Chiefs.
14:48They're both three and three,
14:49but not all three and threes are kind of built the same.
14:53How would you do a state of the union
14:55of the 49ers right now?
14:58Yeah, well, I mean, obviously three and three
14:59is not where you want to be,
15:01but that was an impressive victory
15:03the other night against Seattle.
15:05You're coming off the mini bye week
15:08and you're gonna get healthy.
15:09And the way they ran the ball,
15:11that was impressive to me
15:12with a bunch of backup running backs.
15:14Like all those things, you take stock in those things.
15:17And Brock Purdy, like one of the things
15:20that I mentioned after that Thursday night game
15:22was I know that Brock is athletic
15:25and I know that he's got really good feet,
15:27but I probably have never been more impressed
15:30with the way he played when things broke down.
15:34His ability to scramble, to get out of harm's way,
15:37to create plays with his feet,
15:39to create time in the backfield, to avoid rushes.
15:44I just thought his pocket presence was unbelievable
15:46and I thought his athleticism
15:48was more dynamic than I've ever seen.
15:51I was like, I don't remember him being,
15:53I know he's a good athlete, don't get me wrong,
15:54but I don't remember him being that dynamic a scrambler.
15:58And so I was like, shoot, but in red zone,
16:01you want to cure the red zone problems,
16:03start running the zone read stuff.
16:05Start using him in the red zone on the edge
16:08to pull the ball, keep it, and threaten the defense
16:11to create some more room for your running backs
16:14in that zone read scheme.
16:16So I could see them implementing something of that nature
16:19coming to the red zone
16:20because he is that athletically dynamic.
16:22And I didn't really realize that,
16:23or I just haven't seen it like I saw it the other day.
16:27Maybe he's got the PTSD from losing Trey Lance
16:30on a similar play a couple of seasons ago
16:32and not wanting to get his QB hurt.
16:35When you watch-
16:36But that was all, Trey Lance was not on the edge.
16:38Trey Lance was all inside power QB
16:41and it was an inside run game
16:43because he didn't have the edge quickness.
16:45He had more straight line linear speed
16:47and that's what they were using him in.
16:49So that to me, the edge stuff is a little bit different
16:52than running in there between the tacks.
16:54That's a good point and just watching
16:56the way Brock's been running around of late
16:58does make me think a little bit about Patrick Mahomes,
17:01how they're both just scrambling
17:03and making these sidearm off-schedule throws.
17:06But I just want to ask you about the totality
17:08of George Kittle and what you've seen,
17:10not only as a red zone threat,
17:12but also as just a pancake-serving breakfast machine
17:16in the blocking game.
17:18He is one of my all-time favorite players.
17:22I love the enthusiasm with which he plays.
17:26I also love the fact that that dude
17:28would rather serve a pancake block than score a touchdown.
17:32Like that, he's just an all,
17:34he's just a football playing Jesse, man.
17:36And I just appreciate the heck out of him.
17:38I love watching him play the game
17:40and I love watching him dispense justice
17:42in the running game.
17:43And like, I know the joy.
17:45I mean, I've talked to him multiple times about it.
17:47I know the joy.
17:48It's not fake.
17:49He loves it.
17:51And that's contagious, man.
17:54That's infectious.
17:55I love that about him.
17:57What do you think's gonna happen in this game, Sting?
18:02That's a great, that's a great,
18:03I think it's gonna be a really tight game.
18:05You know me, man.
18:07I'm hoping that San Francisco doesn't,
18:08you know, between us, don't tell anybody in Kansas City,
18:11but I am rooting for the 49ers.
18:12I really want Kyle to win.
18:15I really want this one, you know, to go 49ers way.
18:17And I'd really like to see Kansas City lose.
18:19So there's definitely, I mean,
18:22it comes down to the very end of the game.
18:23How do you manage the end of the game, San Francisco?
18:26Cause you'll be in it.
18:27I know you'll be in it.
18:28Just how do you manage the end of it?
18:30Yeah, I hope they manage it better
18:31than they've managed the end of it previously, Sting.
18:34Oh man.
18:35Yeah, the fourth quarter.
18:36Scary times.
18:37All right, hey Sting, love having you.
18:39We'll talk to you in a couple of weeks, my friend.
18:41Sounds good, guys, take care.
18:42All right, there it is.
18:43Mark Slareth, that was Odyssey NFL Insider.
18:46Mark Slareth, host of the Stinkin' Truth Podcast,
18:48Insider Calls, brought to you by
18:50Hellman's Real Mayonnaise Mayo Game Day.
18:52Be delicious.