Niira Radia Speaks Out For The First Time In Over A Decade | NDTV Profit
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00:00Ratan Tata, a doyen of corporate India, passed away on the 10th of October at the age of
00:3086 years. He leaves behind a legacy that not only encompasses strides that the Tata group
00:38made, but has also been pivotal to the big shifts in the Indian economy. One individual
00:45who's had an insider view of some of the most crucial decisions made by the Tata group is
00:51speaking with us today. This conversation aims to get a better understanding of who
00:56Ratan Tata was, what made him tick, and why did he make the decisions he did. Whether
01:02it was the acquisition of Jaguar Land Rover, Steel Major Chorus, development of the Nano,
01:08or the foray into aviation. My guest on the show is someone who has worked with him closely
01:14for over 15 years. She's had an insider view of those crucial decisions and who the man
01:21really was. How company handled public relations for the Tata group between 2000 and 2012.
01:28Neera Radia, who was the chairperson of Vaishnavi Corporate Communications during the most critical
01:35time when the Tata group decided to consolidate its brand at a group level. She also remained
01:41a dear friend and close confidant till his last. This is her first interview in over 12 years and
01:48the first one ever on the Tata group. Neera Radia, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to speak
01:54with you. Let me start, I think, with a question perhaps most viewers have on top of their mind.
02:01How come you've agreed to speak after so long? And of course, thank you for speaking with us.
02:08Thank you, Tamanna. Thank you for asking. I think it's what Ratan would have wanted me to do.
02:18For years, post 2012, he would always tell me, you know, why are you not speaking? Why are you quiet?
02:24Why should you not speak? And I would say, well, I think it's better left. A lot of things are
02:30sometimes better left unsaid. And I think today, I think he'd be happy that I took that decision
02:39to actually speak. And I think it's more of a homage to him because I think this is what he
02:45would have wanted me to do. Tell me, Neera, how you first met Ratan Tata and how did it develop
02:55into this kind of a working relationship which spanned over a decade? It was very interesting,
03:02mate. I come from a background from aviation. Well, my father was in aviation and we
03:10we were consultants to the Singapore Airlines. And at that time, the Tata group was
03:14looking to enter aviation and Singapore Airlines was their partner. During that time,
03:20they had taken a decision to bid for Air India. This was in 98, 99, I think, during the
03:29divide by government. It's the same time that Indica and a lot of other things were happening
03:36in the group that were, which were not being, you know, there was a huge communication gap
03:43between the world outside and the Tata group itself, whether it was Tata Motors or whether
03:48it was Tata Finance or whether it was the Air India acquisition. There was a lot of,
03:56and I think this is where I met him. The Singapore Airlines team wanted me to meet with him
04:02and have a conversation. It was really very interesting because he had given only 20 minutes
04:08for this meeting to Singapore Airlines. And I remember Ishaat Hussain was present in that
04:14meeting and so many others from the Tata group, about four or five of his colleagues. I have to
04:20say that that one meeting between Ratan and me lasted almost three to four hours.
04:26Was it difficult to have the mandate to handle public relations for someone who just seemed to
04:33dislike public appearances? I mean, we were, we were counting the number of interviews Mr.
04:38Ratan Tata has done and I think they would, major ones would be on one hand, a handful of them.
04:46Was there ever this conversation where you would say you need to appear more in the public domain?
04:51How was, how was that happening? Did he not like these public appearances? Was he a very shy
04:56individual? He was certainly a shy person and I think he was shy by, in a choice. He was a person
05:05who liked to get on with doing things more importantly than speaking about them. But it
05:11was a time when the group was consolidating and it was necessary for the group to speak. It was
05:16very important for the group to speak. There was his vision, you know, something that he had written
05:22when his mother had, was in hospital looking after his mother and before she passed away and he had
05:27done this entire plan for industrialization and globalization and, you know, it was never talked
05:32about. People didn't understand it. Subsequent to that, you know, everybody carried, you know,
05:37does a lot of PR and then it got public. We ensured that it was, it was known to the,
05:42to the, you know, to the world at large as to where his vision was coming from.
05:47Just trying to get a sense of what was the style of decision making? Was it a top-down approach?
05:55Was it collaborative? Because big decisions were being made and for a group of that size,
06:00for things to move in one direction, it can be painful. Give us an insight into how the man
06:07functioned. Well, you know, he was a visionary. He was a dreamer and a visionary. You know, he,
06:18India was his, India was his national pride. He had, he was very proud. He had a, he had,
06:24he was a hardcore nationalist at heart. He loved his country and he loved the people and, and I
06:32think when it, when he had to take decisions for the company, then Tata Group played a significant
06:37role in the industrialization of India. So, I think when he had to take those decisions,
06:43he, remember he had a vision and when I said he, he had that vision, this was the plan that he had,
06:48he had put together, which was about industrialized, extending industrialization
06:53beyond what was, what was there, what was built through the Jamshed era or the Jaya era and he
06:58had to go, go, go one step further and, but then it was so important to globalize and why did he
07:04need to globalize and the importance and in one line I remember him telling him, the only reason
07:09I need to go into, you know, we need to do globalization is so that we can bring the
07:13technologies back into, into India and upgrade our own, our own platforms and our own, our own
07:23companies so that we can make, you know, better platforms. So, JL, JLR, Land Rover was one of the
07:30most, was one of, one of such reason, design. It is remarkable, it's one of the most, you know,
07:36it's a luxury brand, but it was, but, but its, its ability and its research and its design was
07:44what he, and he was, he was an avid lover of design, you know, Ratan was an architect.
07:49Is that why we saw so many British acquisitions? So, one for the tech and the other a bit of
07:54national pride? I know, there was, yeah, the chorus was, you know, JLR was a great success,
08:03it upgraded the, I would say also upgraded the industry platforms as well. I think the,
08:08the automobile industry after the, this whole acquisition itself upgraded itself and we saw,
08:15look at what we have today, it's wonderful and, and that's his, his, his contribution and that,
08:20and the industry participated in that as well in many ways in their own companies
08:25to, to be able to upgrade. So, he, yes, he set the tone. Chorus was a decision that was,
08:33you know, which, which I think he, he felt was good for it, it was good for his companies,
08:39fought hard. Remember, when we, when he did Chorus, we were also in the middle of the battle
08:45of Nano in, in, in, in West Bengal. We, he took a decision, can I come to Chorus after coming to
08:55Nano because it correlates in some way, if it's, if it's okay with you. Sure, of course, of course.
09:01He, he, so, so, yeah, so we were in West Bengal and, and, you know, he, he would, he was in the
09:10midst of two very, very critical decisions. There was a bid going on as far as Chorus was concerned.
09:15At the same time, there was a big battle for why the one-leg car should not be in, in West Bengal
09:22because people didn't want it there. His choice to choose Bengal was his dream of industrialization
09:30to industrialize the state, which needed industrialization. I won't come to the
09:35business part or the business reasons for it, you know, subsequently we saw something else,
09:40and I don't want to come to that, but I think what Nano did and was, you've got to look at him from
09:45being, he was a dreamer. What did he want? He wanted something for the common man so that he
09:49didn't sit on a bike, forgive me for saying this, but he didn't want people to get wet in the rain
09:55and be in a car and be safe. That's all he wanted. That, it couldn't achieve its price
10:00point of one leg. One leg was something he, I remember an interview he had with the,
10:05with one of the leading newspapers and, from the UK, and I was present in that meeting when,
10:11when this first thing was, was mentioned that I want to make a one-leg car, and we all looked at
10:18him in, in amazing, you know, shock and said, you know, one leg because he hadn't talked about the
10:23number. He said, I want a car for the people, but at that time, he had never given the number that
10:28it was going to be one leg, and I remember that was subsequently a lead story in, in, I believe
10:32it was the Financial Times in the UK. I have to ask. So the Nano was there. I'm so sorry. I have
10:39to ask. So the decision was to make a car for one lakh rupees so that common people could use it
10:46and then work backward to how it would actually happen? It's surprising to me that even you didn't
10:52know it was going to be a one-leg car. You know, in the interview, it just was just a natural flow
11:05and sometimes, you know, you, you think, you know, he has, I'm sure he has, he had, I mean,
11:11like you and like us, we all have many dreams. He had a dream and his dream was for the people.
11:17It was always for the betterment of people and always for the better of people,
11:20betterment of people of India. So I think this, this, this one lakh number was there because I
11:27think he would have done his, his, his maths at that time to say that, can I do it? There's,
11:32there were criticism, there was criticism to it after that and I don't wish to go into that,
11:38but so be it, you know, he, he, look at the man. The man had a dream. He had a vision.
11:45He wanted to do something for the common man and I think that was what was more important.
11:50Was he disappointed when the Nano didn't work out as he had hoped,
11:55that the one lakh car didn't take off? Yes, he was disappointed. He was, he was disappointed.
12:01Yeah. No, I think the price point changed subsequently as you, as you, as you know,
12:06but I want, you know, I look, Tamanna, I do want to get into the business side of the,
12:11the, the, the story. I want to, I want to stay focused to, to, to who he was and why he did.
12:16No, which is, which is, which is, which is, I'm asking. And if I look at this.
12:19Which is why I'm asking, how did he respond? So he's, of course he was a dreamer. He was a
12:24visionary and sometimes these visions work out, these dreams work out and sometimes they don't.
12:30Many of them were successful. Some weren't. How did he respond or react when something he had
12:36hoped for didn't quite work out as it often does in life? There are factors to this, Tamanna. Let
12:43me come to that and put it into context. When he went into West Bengal, it was because he felt
12:48West Bengal needed to be industrialized. He took a decision to be in West Bengal because it needed
12:54it. It needed jobs. It needed, you know, something like this would have given a great Philip because
12:59that whole road from, from, from Calcutta to Singur is a, is a road in a stretch that would
13:04have developed extremely beautifully. Just like when the Nano then shifted to Gujarat, Sanand,
13:11today Sanand is like Gurgaon. What I'm trying to say is that it is a time lag. It took a long time
13:18because there was a huge repercussion within the political. He was not, the fight was never about
13:23Ratan or never about Nano or about the Tata group. The fight was, it was a political fight and he
13:29just got caught in it. But he chose Singur as a place which was the constituency of the then
13:36opposition leader. And I think rightly so, because all, what is, what is this telling you?
13:42This is telling you he always just wanted to take everybody along with him. And that's, and that,
13:47and, and, and, but I think the time lag caused the challenge on, on its price point would have
13:52been definitely a reason. Subsequent to that, it took us almost, I think 18 months to two years,
13:59almost I think about 18 months. And then we, he took a decision. We went and saw many,
14:08went to visited, we visited many other states. We were called by multiple people,
14:14whether it was Punjab or Karnataka. They have plants in Karnataka, they have plants in Uttarakhand.
14:18We were, we were called, we, we were asked. We then got a call from, from Gujarat and
14:24the then Chief Minister, our Prime Minister now Mr. Modi. And he took a decision and he moved.
14:32Why did he go to Gujarat? Because they have plants in Gujarat. They have Tata chemicals
14:37already there. So he was comfortable because then here he saw, okay, well, maybe Nanu needs
14:43a state which is a bit more industrialized, which is moving towards development.
14:48And hence this will be better and easier, which is why he then moved to Gujarat.
14:52So tell me a time, an anecdote, if you can share an anecdote when he surprised you or
14:57there was something that was a big learning for you on a personal level.
15:01So the Tata, the Nanu, the Tata Nanu was a learning because courage, you know, he, he brought,
15:09he was a courageous man. So when he took the decision, I remember it was a press conference
15:14going on at that time with Buddha Dev Bacharya and he announced Singur. And I was standing at
15:22this because at that time we were not told which would be the site. And I think it really surprised
15:28me because we knew that was the, we really surprised me because we knew that was the,
15:34you know, naturally you have all the questions in your mind asking, you know,
15:39have you communicated this to the person whose constituency it is? Have you spoken to them? Have
15:44you taken everybody on board? But for him it was what, it was natural. He felt that, yeah,
15:50why shouldn't it be? You know, it, I, I'm here to do business. I'm here to further development of
15:57the state. I'm not here to get into politics. So the fight was, so this was one, one thing.
16:03I remember that evening another thing happened at the airport. It was really funny. Well,
16:07not funny, but it's very sweet. We were on our way back after that press conference and
16:12I, I went through the ladies, you know, where the frisking happens at security and then
16:18he was coming through and obviously there's a lot of protocol around Ratan, but he still
16:24insisted on going and he went in and, and he stood on that and stretched his arms and waited to be
16:29frisked. And the security officer at that time turned around and he saluted in front of him
16:35and he said, sir, please, please get down. You know, I, it's, it's, you are, you are our pride.
16:41You are our pride. And he said, no, no, I want to be, you know, you must do your job. And this was
16:47who he was. And, and look at him, you know, the lives that he touched, it just, you know, this
16:53is a security guard who just refused to, he said, no, you, sir, you are, please, please pass. So,
16:59you know, it was, it was, it was quite a moment. I watched it at a distance because I'd already
17:05gone through and I saw his reaction and the smile and the way he, he looked at the security officer
17:11and shook his hand, you know, this is what he was about. Did, were you in touch with him after 2012?
17:21When was the last time you met with him, spoke with him? About two months back. Yeah. Roughly
17:27about two, two to three, two to three months back. Yeah. Oh, I remained in touch with him.
17:31We remained friends. He, he had, he inaugurated, he was there at one of my functions.
17:39He was always, we always talked on the phone whenever we could. He, and I think we remained,
17:46what is nice was that we remained good friends much after that. And actually, we reminisced
17:51many moments because there were times, you know, when we were, when there was a lot of interest,
17:57this was a phase of the Tata group at a very critical phase. And we were at, at Army and Navy
18:05and he was from Bombay House and I would get a call from him saying, or his secretary,
18:08Dilnaz would call and say that Mr. Tata is coming over for coffee. He loved coming to our office
18:12because, and I knew it when he was going to come to the office, there's something on his mind that
18:16he wants to bounce off. He just loved the coffee at the office and he would come to Army and Navy
18:21where our office was. And there were many times that happened when he would then bounce an idea
18:26or bounce something and discuss something that he was, or something that could have been
18:29bothering him that he needed, you know, an answer to. And those were very, and so we,
18:36when we met subsequent to those in the last few years, whenever we met, we really did reminisce
18:43the moments that we spent together because I remember there was an incident in, you asked
18:48about anecdotes, so we were in Dubai. Krishnakumar was there and a couple of other Tata people,
18:53we were in, I can't remember which mall it was, but this gentleman, that was a time when the
19:00Indica thing was still going on. There was still uncertainty. We had just taken on the mandate.
19:05There was still uncertainty about, you know, is Indica going to be a success? And there was a lot
19:12of, oh, the Tata Motors had lost X, had losses of X, you know, front page headlines and stuff like
19:19that, just before we got into the mandate, and then this is a few months later. And then this
19:25gentleman in Dubai came up to him in the mall and said, sir, sir, I have an Indica. And he looked
19:31at me thinking somebody's going to complain. But the gentleman said, sir, no, I love your car.
19:36It's lovely. My, I bought the car and I bought a Tata car. And when he, when the, and again,
19:42he, you know, he loved shaking hands and he shook his hand and he was so happy to hear that. The
19:47joy on his face was so amazing. And then when he walked away, he said to me and Krishna Kumar,
19:51see, they like it. The others have a comment, but they like it, you know, and this is what he was
19:58all, this is, you know, so it was nice. So he was inside, he was, there was this, you know, this man
20:04who, you know, who did things from the heart and wanted people to like what he did. He wanted them
20:12to, he didn't do it for himself. He did it because he, he wanted others to, to do well and,
20:22and to be successful and to own, you know, like I said, good cars and, and, and have a comfortable
20:28life. He rejoined that he would, you know, I mean, just look at the way he, he, he did that with,
20:36you know, with, with dogs and, oh, I, I have one very funny incident. I, which I, I can,
20:42can I share that about the dog? Of course. We were very, yeah, we were at our guest house in
20:50Bombay when we actually had to shift to Bombay because of the mandate, a lot of our professionals.
20:54So we had a, a dog, which was a stray dog. And he said, look, you know, will you look after this dog?
21:01Because he would, you know, he would have so many stray dogs. And he said, would you look after this
21:05dog? And I said, certainly. We have a guest house. We'll have, we'll look after this dog.
21:10So his, his driver would bring food, you know, Ratan would make sure that his driver sent the
21:16food for the dog, although our cook would be making food for the dog in any case. And this,
21:20this dog became a very healthy dog. And he needed to go out on walks. He needed to be taken out on
21:25walks because he became lazy. One fine day, he went out of, of, you know, out of the hands of the,
21:31the, the, our cook who had taken him on for a walk at the Marine Drive. I must tell you,
21:38I've never seen PR professionals running looking for a dog. This dog had disappeared. And they
21:45said, you better get back this, this dog as quickly as possible because, you know, it was a
21:50dog that Ratan gave. And it was such a funny sight, I must say. We found him eventually. And he was,
21:57and I had to call him. I said, Ratan, you know, you know, this, this, this dog is,
22:04we, we, you know, he, he, we called him Jackie, Jackie. And we said, you know, this, this dog is,
22:11his, his, his disappeared. He's, he, because, you know, he's, he, he left the lease. And he said,
22:16well, he's so, he's so heavy because he would see him, you know, he would, we would make sure that
22:21he got to see him as well. And he said, you fed him so much. And I would say, well, we feed him
22:25what comes from your place and we also feed him. So anyway, we finally found the dog and then I
22:30called him in the night. So you had, so you had to report, so you, so you had to report back that
22:35Jackie was all right. Those must have been some nervous hours. It'll be wrong. No, no. I think
22:43I was nervous myself that, oh my God, I've lost the dog. What have I done? And more than that,
22:47it was my, you know, PR professionals, you know, Vishal, you know, wearing his, his tie and then
22:53taking his tie off and running. And suddenly I saw this four or five guys running on Marine Drive,
22:58wondering what are they doing? And then we're looking for Jackie.
23:01Since you were in touch with him, all the things that he did after retirement,
23:04some of the companies that he invested in, was he still a workaholic after retiring?
23:10Was he very involved or excited about these new ventures that he discussed it with you?
23:15You know, he wanted, when he, when he retired, he did say that I would like to bring young
23:21entrepreneurship to, you know, I would like to invest with young entrepreneurs and, and,
23:26and encourage them. So, so this was his thoughts. If you look at it, he was always wanting to do
23:30things for, for, for other people. And therefore he would take positions in their companies to,
23:34to help them develop because they are, we have very smart people in our country.
23:38And, and, and he had this, and he had seen this way ahead. I mean, we're talking about
23:45entrepreneurship now or the, or the, the, the, the, the, the companies that are coming on,
23:51the unicorns that they're so called now, he was already seen this 20 years back.
23:56What is, how did you feel or what is your view on the transition, which has taken place so smoothly?
24:03We had the announcement about Mr. Noel Tata taking over as chairperson of the Tata Trust,
24:09just within 24 hours, very dignified, very smooth. Any views or any thoughts on that?
24:16I'll say just one thing, Ratan will be very happy.
24:21Why do you say that?
24:22He'd be very happy with that.
24:23Why do you say that?
24:24Be very happy that he would be very happy that it was unanimous.
24:30He was a man of, he always was a man of consensus. It was never a top down approach. You asked me a
24:36question earlier on, on the companies. It was never a top down approach. He was a man of consensus
24:44and that it was unanimous. He would be very happy.
24:50And, and, and why? Because, you know, I think
24:53Noel, if I go back, if you look at the legacy, whether it was Jamshedji or whether it was JRD,
24:57whether it is Ratan, Noel would carry the same legacy. He comes with the same values. He comes
25:03with the same, same strengths. And I think that's, that's been, and that's why it's happened so
25:09smoothly and, and done so quickly, because I would believe that's what Ratan would have also wanted.
25:18Thank you so much, Neera, for sharing with us, for opening up to us and, you know, coming out
25:25with a public conversation after so long on something which I'm sure is very dear to your
25:30hearts, to your heart. It has helped us get an insight like none other into the persona that
25:36was Ratan Tata. So thank you.